I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball.
In a bright egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida egg, egg, Frida egg, bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is with Jeff Shackelford. He is the owner of Jeff Shackleford dot Com also runs the uh A substack newsletter called The Quadrilateral. Jeff and I talk about the latest on the Distance Insights Report. Obviously that's a hot topic in golf uh and Jeff is very well versed in distance and the issue, having you know, basically
written about it for the last twenty years. So we talk about the the latest updated interests of that, as well as a little bit on the Saudis and Augusta National. So this will be a episode that kind of covers a lot of things that's going on in regular golf as well as pro golf. So, without further ado, here
is Jeff Shackelford. All right, we're we're back our Distance correspondent our external distance correspondent, Senor Jeff Shackleford from Jeff Shackleford dot com, also the author of the Quadrilateral, a substack newsletter that everybody should subscribe to.
It is a what is it, fifty bucks a year?
Fifty four?
I RaSE it.
I don't anticipate raising inflation for a while. Inflation and yeah, just inflation. That's all or six bucks a month.
The keys are getting more. They they're charging you more every time you hit the key.
Yeah.
The bandwidth.
Yeah, so we're back. We got another update on the distance report. It seems like years ago when I was in Los Angeles when this first came about and you came over with the two fully printed out insights report.
This was pre COVID. It was right before COVID. I mean it was.
February of twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, and now we're here another update added areas of interest another six weight is six month kind of feedback loop. Jeff, what did you think of the latest updates?
I thought it was really good. I mean, obviously the bad news is it's feeling like we're we're not going to really address this for a while. When all is said and done. So that's a bad news. I think the good news, though, is that it's a little more aggressive than expected, and obviously we don't have all the details of what they truly have in mind. You know, it's the same kind of thing as the last one. They're throwing out the areas of interest and and teasing
some of them. Others are more explicit, and so I think that's fascinating how it'll play out. But if it is what it reads like, it's it's it's it's the R word. It's a there's a rollback for for the top guys, and that's that's a big deal. And it's kind of shocking. I mean, I realize we have a lot going on and we can discuss why this is, but there's been nothing from players, and I you know, I have a few theories, but that's kind of shocking. I thought we'd get one sort of whiny meltdown from
a manufacturer bending somebody's ear, and there's been nothing. So I think that's key because this thing could get derailed quickly.
It's, you know, just like reading the tea leaves and the way it feels, it seems like the manufacturers are somewhat on board.
Yeah, I think that's right. You know, David Dusk had a good piece in Golf Week a few weeks before this came out where he had anonymous submissions to questions from manufacturers, and the tone in that was a really good sign. You saw for the first time a realization or it just wasn't that knee jerk reaction, and they may have had a good sense of what was coming. And this is the thing I think was most impressive
in the in the rollout. And we've been you know, wanting this for however long, but they're trying to throw them some bones to actually help the recreational golfer because all the data. They won't come out and say it, but the data shows the average person has not gotten the benefits from from the equipment. The people who are paying for the equipment haven't gotten the benefits that the people who are not paying for the equipment who just show it off are getting. It's it's not even close.
And so they finally are saying, hey, look, we're going to give you some things that you've wanted or that we think will help you innovate for the average person who's actually paying, and we're going to though, you know, throttle these guys back, and there might be some ways they've done it where you know this addiction the companies have to marketing off of the pros. They can keep doing that. You know, they're just in love with that idea and maybe there's just no other way to sell equipment.
I don't know, but I don't think. I don't think that's true, and so I like that they try to give them some things and give them that opening to to come back with with stuff, because it makes it very hard for them to whine about these chain when you've given them some room to innovate.
So just to you know, give a quick overview the air. Updated areas of interest are ball testing, so you know, one of the things they haven't been doing is testing golf balls at high swing speeds on tour. They've been testing them at below the highest swing speeds on tour, which will be an update. They still aren't going all the way up, which is kind of a head scratching
move in my opinions. It's just going to go faster and faster in the next couple of years, and then obviously a potential for a ball that's faster for slower swing speeds, yeah, if I read it correctly, and slower for high swing speeds, which I think is kind of that's what you're talking about, blending the two really helping the average player out and you know, not helping I think the ball has been the opposite.
The ball and the equipment's been the opposite.
The higher you swing, the higher speed you swing it, the more benefits you get from the average player.
That's been kind of the thing.
So this is kind of flipping it on its head, which is, in my opinion, probably the way it shouldn't have been for a long time. And then you know, the big one is different driver faces for professional golfers potentially, where we might see a less forgiving driver face where the moi, you know, where off center hits aren't as
rewarded as they have been. You'd see more of a distant drain if you miss the center of the club face, which I mean I can't I can't see how any golf fan in the right mind wouldn't want to see that. One want to know who's actually hitting the center of the club face coming down the stretch at a major championship.
Yeah, absolutely, Now how that's done is beyond me. I saw one report imply that would that would mean shrinking head. I don't think that was the impression I got.
It's not what I got either.
Yeah. So, and that's where I was saying, they can still market the club whatever it is, the Rogue carbon Wood four, and and but there would be a marking on it that would make clear that this this, this one is for the elite player or the the serious golfer, whatever that is. And it's on the conforming list. And then there's the one that's sold to the to the recreational player. And so that to me is really fascinating.
And I think we don't know but the combination of all these things and then what that does to change the player's attack of the ball, that's the part. We don't know how much that might reduce distance. So I don't know what the final number is, but it seems like it's a solid ten percent right now that it would take off those elite guys. I would push back slightly. I think that I feel like the clubhead speed bump.
I mean, they're talking about going to a number that is the average of the top ten drivers on the tours. So and they're also it's also more flexible. It's it's it's it's it's optimum launch conditions. It's not a set number, and I think that's really important. I mean, I wrote
the Future at Golf. I wrote about the need for that a long time ago, and now that was before you had guys walking out on the range with their track man, and so it seems like a logical step when you know that the players have this ability to be fine tuning and honing their launch conditions daily with adjustments to the equipment and some of its adjustable and
all that. So I think that that's a natural progression of the testing, but it's also gonna Yeah, that was a pretty stagger statement that John Spitzer made to Mike's the Tour and golfed.
I just.
Probably pretty much every ball on the tour right now, other than a guy playing a pro v from three years ago because he likes the way it feels, might be non conforming. That's kind of that. I mean, that was that was shocking, and there's just been no I've seen very little reaction. I've been watching a lot of the NCAA tournaments, so I can't say that I've been mining on the internet for reactions, but I haven't seen much.
It's been uh, you know, we talk about the balls, they would be illegal under these new testing guidelines. But in a way it seems like, you know, the Taylor Baide was puffing their chest out about the stealth. The equipment companies, you've set parameters, they're always going to innovate
against them. I think that's if you go back to the history of the golf ball with when John Lowe and got his regulations he was excited about way back when you know, the next day the golf ball manufacturers came out with something that was longer and faster than the golf ball he fought so hard to regulate against. So you know, this is what engineers do. You give them parameters, they are going to innovate against it. And it seems like recent the recent innovations have been kind
of finding loopholes that make illegal equipment. For like you know, with the stealth, they're talking about how this actually you know, it goes beyond the CT because of carbon right where it actually is faster than they'll allowed, but they found a loophole to get to that, and it I think the resetting is going to be great. I The one thing I'll say is that we're going to reset and we're probably going to get you know, they talk a lot about like allowing for innovation. We're probably going to
get back here in another fifty years. Is the reality right?
Maybe? Maybe? I mean right now, I feel like it's so aggressive, and it may be aggressive to with the idea that they'll end up having to negotiate a spot in the middle, But I feel like it's going to make a significant dent. And then but I think the bigger question is does it put an end to to your question about fifty years? Does it does it slow down or and the potential pursuit of speed the Bryson esque type or I don't want to say, but I
watched a young golfer. I saw a clip on Twitter just from a tournament over the week or last week. I couldn't believe how hard the player swung. And does that do these changes permanently put an end to to kind of that long drive contest type swinging out of your shoes and return a little bit more of a premium on a variety of things and skills. Uh So that's I. Yeah, I just feel like the injury thing and the possibility that the driver phase changes could could
really stop players from trying to swing that way. I mean maybe I'm maybe I'm that's a wishful thinking, I I but we'll take We'll take anything.
Right now, years ago I did this.
I did a podcast with a guy who did a study on tennis, and this is what happened when the oversized racket came about. And if you look at the world's top ten ranked golfers now, it's the youngest they've ever been. And this is this parallels tennis. Tennis had a period where youth dominated and it was the youngest. They had the youngest major championship winner at every venue in the same year. And this is what prompted the
guy to look into it. And I think we're at that same impass here right now, where we have, you know, the youngest top ten in the world we've ever seen, and it's by it's shattering. I mean, Sam Burns just got into the top ten. Another twenty five year old bumped out DJ. So we're at this impass. What's interesting to me, I think about the whole situation is if this gets say, this gets implemented in a couple of years, and it's a less forgiving face that that in a ball that spins more.
Could we see.
A a window for the guys like Adam Scott and Sergio and these older players that actually have experience hitting the center of the face, because I remember when I was in high school and I sound like an old man saying this now, but I used to stand on the first t terrified of hitting like a low quacker off the top.
Oh yeah, that was the worst. Yeah.
And you see now with drivers that you want to hit the driver, you you, that's like the best club you can hit when you're nervous, because it's impossible to really miss it. You know, if you hit one off the bear, off the hazzle, it's going to go fifteen yards shorter and in the same you know, frame of space if you nut one, you know, And I think that's going to be the interesting thing is that if you do this, there is going to change the trajectory of golf and which golfers are the best golfers.
See. I still feel, and maybe it's wishful thinking, I still feel like if you look at that top ten right now, not not to focus too much on them.
But.
Colin Markyle will be given time to adjust to that driver face and he won't have any trouble. Will Zalaturus won't have it, and he's on the top ten, but he's a great ball striker and he'll adjust. I do feel like it will put a little bit more premium on certain skills or other skills, and that's a positive. So yeah, maybe that that keeps some older players around. But my sense is that part of the reason we're
part of it is just a generational thing. At the moment, we've had some older players who lasted a long time are kind of retiring or going away. But I'm having a hard time with the money involves and the way the game's played. I just feel like there's going to
be a lot of turnover no matter what. So I don't know, and that has very little to do with the equipment in some ways, unless you get into the injury speed stuff, then that does have a direct tie to how the equipment is what the equipment allows the player to do. So I think it's a positive when the game has a lot of different ways to play, it has a lot of different age groups. I think it's the thing that makes our sport special and my sense is that those those truly special players will continue
to be. In fact, I feel strongly, with no evidence whatsoever, that those extra they're all great out there, but the ones that are extra special, I think they may stand out more if this happens. You know, that would be the case i'd make to somebody like Rory McElroy, who's kind of I mean I briefly mentioned it at Riviera. He's kind of all over the map on it and he rolls his eyes at people like us on this stuff.
But I think you could make a case that he, you know, players like him, would stand out just a little bit more, or that player like Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson actually would have won even a little bit more if the equipment hadn't changed so much and then gone the way it did in the last ten to twelve years.
You know, co Crack better get his Saudi check asap.
I think he's getting it soon. He'll be probably in London. Picked it up the first of eight Biggies.
It's I think the one thing I forgot to mention was the key thesis of that of that podcast was when technological change is introduced, new skills are rewarded and this, this rollback at the professional level would be an introduction of technological change, and I think what the overall point would be is that it would be more the skills would be more similar to skills of past, which is where you know, these where older players hanging on might have,
you know, a significant advantage because they don't have to relearn these skills or relearn new skills. And that I think that's where these young players are at such an advantage, is that they never learned the skills of hitting a small head and a spinny ball.
They don't even know what that was like.
And whenever you have to relearn skills or learn new skills at an older age, you're at a huge disadvantage.
Yeah, there's no question I but I just feel like the timingness will be, this will be easy, will ease into this, and there will be and and I'm you know, with launch monitors now and fitting and how good people are at doing that, I just feel that there's nothing that they're talking about that's so extreme that that's the equivalent of going from a big headed driver to persimmon or something. It's just nothing that's that great of a leap. And so the combination of what they have in terms
of availability, in testing, free, free equipment, the timing. You know, we're looking at this happening over a couple of years, three years, probably four years. I think they'll be able to adapt. And those players you're talking about, some of those guys, will you know four years from now, Sergio Lee Westwood, you know, well they yeah, yeah, I don't want to say, but the chances of them still being U relevant or not great.
You look at Ricky Fowler and he's kind of I think, like I who knows, like everybody loves it, but I think he's one of the guys that you could look at and concretely, you know, hypothesized that distance really cost a very very He's had a very good career, but a longer great career because when he came on tour,
as you know, he was the young guy. He was like a top twenty five driving distance guy, and you can see like he just got completely outpaced with with that new wave of golfers where he became average and length and all of a sudden that has you know, disastrous effects down down the rest of your game and through the bag. And I think, you know, puts more pressure on putting.
He hasn't put it.
As well, he hasn't hit the ball as well as he's tried to stay relevant in the distance race.
You could throw in a there's a Looke Donald before him. I mean, there's quite quite a few cases. And yeah, there's no question that watching what guys were doing, he felt the pressure to adjust. It's very hard to hold your ground. And again you could make the case there are a couple of people who have sort of just decided they play it a certain way and they'll play well certain courses and they're happy to make a living doing that. But he had aspirations to do something a little bit
more profound in his career. But then you also can't really gauge what kind of money he has made and what that does to your drive. I mean, he has done he and I mentioned this before on other shows. You know, Forbes never puts him in that top one hundred list of athlete athlete income and it's just laughable.
I mean, he's he's doing as well as anybody in golf or has been in the last few years, so it's hard to so I just think those career windows are going to shorten a little bit and that's what's fascinating about not really necessarily positive about them, the Saudi situation and all the money that's going into these towards the players. Look, I mean it's it's there, they have, they can give it to them, but it's you do wonder what kind of effect it's going to have on
longevity in a sport where we need. We We like getting to know players, we like watching their career arc. It's one of those things that makes up for the fact that the sport's kind of boring to watch. We get invested in them and it's really fun when they still do something later in their career after we saw them emerge, And yeah, I just love that about the sport and I feel like we're losing that.
I mean, you don't have to look at any further.
And this is if we could just you know, forget the last six months of his life. But look at Phil Micholson with the PGA. You know, that's the perfect example of a career arc. And you know, you know Watson at at uh at the Open years ago, it's you get this, you you hold on because the sport allows for players to age so gracefully in comparison to a sport like football or basketball, where one day they're relevant and the next day they're washed, and it's so
visually apparent that they're washed. But this sport allows for some grace and some some aging and and you know, moments of of where they shine and they they still have it. And and that was Phil at the PGA. And you know, that's the thing that you when you introduce more and more money the drive. I think the one thing I would push back on is like the
really special players will will stay special. Like Tom Brady is a perfect example of of that, and like where you know, great, great players will defy this thing because that what drives them is not the money. But for a lot of players, and maybe that's the case, is like a lot of players that were never that great, the money will will make them, you know, kind of fade out a little bit faster.
Yeah, And that's I think something we take for granted with Tiger and Phil, how much they just kept coming at you even when they had seemingly plenty of money. And I think Jordan Speed's one of those players who will be that way. Most of the events considered the greatest in the history of the game were the ones where there was a convergence of generations and and the new guy was coming and the old guy was hanging on, and the and the and the elite player of the
day was involved. And I think that's a really a good reminder, like sixty at Cherry Hills and the eighty six Masters.
Pebble Pebble with Watson and Jack.
Absolutely yeah. So there, and you can go way back even into the you know, pre pre war years, and same kind of thing happened. And that's it's just one of those things in our sport that we really really love that they and we're very lucky a lot of them like to travel. They like the life, and they don't really know any other way, so they play a lot and it's one of those intangibles for golf. So and that's what. But one other thing on this, you know,
on the distance thing, I think that's really interesting. I've been kind of mulling. I'll probably write something to the newsletter about it. But part of the reason I have a theory that we haven't gotten the reaction from players is that the manufacturer's money just doesn't matter as much to most of the players like it used to again,
you know, a new player coming out on the tour. Yes, I'm well aware that that whatever that one hundred and fifty thousand dollars advance at the start of the year to where ball, hat and glove is huge, And I understand that five million a year for somebody is not
laughed at. But I think when you look at the money that's coming to them from the tour or the options they could have somewhere else, that manufacturer bending their ear about Hey, you got to tell everybody this is terrible for the game, and it's mean and it's cruel, and it's going to take the average person back thirty yards and all that nonsense that you might get. I just don't think they have that ability to sway the
players and have them do their bidding like that. And maybe they're not even pushing them.
That way anymore.
Maybe they really realize with the pandemic that the game. They will sell equipment if the game is healthy and being played, and what the pros do has not very little to do with their bottom line. Ultimately, if they're moving equipment, it's because people are playing golf.
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by volume. Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely and drink wisely. Now back to Jeff Shackelford, so on a different topics. Obviously, I think overall everybody's happy about this. This is a good positive development for the game of golf. What's your what's your read on the Saudi situation? Obviously, they last week they announced their their host sites, which
was quite underwhelming. Greg Norman has gone on a media tour and from what I've seen, with the exception of Gary Williams, was met with with softball questions, what what do you expect now that the schedule set? Do you do you expect to see some players defecting in the near future and challenging the PGA tours attempt to ban players who go play.
Well, I just don't know the rules well enough to understand because the way the dates are set up, it looks to me like you could play I believe three is the number that they can get a release on. You can play three before the FedEx, and then the three when the schedule flips to the New twenty two twenty three year. So I don't know is anybody can unless they try to play four or is anybody gonna really initiate a battle with the tour? And then so that's number one and then number two. It just seems
like that he's rolled out a schedule. There's no requirement to play. So the thing that that the model they stole from the Premier Golf League group required you to be involved in all the events. The whole thing only works if you're you're really all in on every half one.
Yeah, exactly that you know, whether Lewis Hamilton wants to or he's a dude. He's at Saudi Arabia, And you know, I think that's the thing that what made that speech that he made a few few months ago so endearing, was like I have to be here. I'm not happy about it, right, but you know this is the you know, the the requirement was a big appeal to the model is that the top players are going to be playing every time we tee it up.
Right, So what's the point of this if it's they can just dip in and dip out. And I think a few guys will and can you blame him. I mean, could you blame Richard Bland for playing that event in London at this point in his career and probably not that field that much better than the ones he's placed played against in Europe and he can make a check that is phenomenal. I wouldn't blame him, and he doesn't have to make any commitment. Although Greg mentioned I noted
this on my blog today. He mentioned in the Gary Williams interviews contracts. So I don't understand again this independent contractor thing, and then you're signing signing contracts, you know, like what's in that? They're they're kind of all over the map, and I get it. They're trying to pivot here in a reaction to the tour, and they dump the Asian Tour event in London like a hot potato and turn that into one of their events, just to what six weeks after announcing it as a centerpiece of
the Asian Tour. So they're moving all over the place and the courses are totally uninspired. And we know more and more that I mean, we were goofy. We look at a venue and that's what gets excited about a tournament. But I think more and more people are appreciative of the role the venue plays and the romance and the history or the character of the design, whether it or even you know, the players championship and the finishing holes.
People just are more drawn to certain places and they don't have the most inspired group of venues, is probably the best way to put it. So it just seems to me like, yeah, they'll get some players, but I don't ultimately, I'm not seeing the long term wisdom of wanting to join it. I'm not getting the long term vision that can that a player can can trust signing on for and that that's uh, that's a problem because and the Saudis could pull the plug at any minute.
They could, they could lose interest in no time, and they're not trustworthy that way. I don't think this. You know, Norman talks about going back, you know, back to twenty nineteen. They've been involved in the game. Oh wow, it's like they were, you know, practically at leaf Links at the founding of the sport. I mean, give me a break.
That's like one of my pet peeves is when when somebody has in their logo, like you know, whether it's like a coffee shop established twenty twenty, Yeah, like, what what does that mean?
Yeah, big deal, unless it's ironic, unless they're just trying to be funny. But yeah, so that part of his case is just really strange to me. And then yeah, that he hasn't I mean, tell you what you need to know about the saudis that he can't say. Look, there's no question that they they they there's some things in the past they would like us to forget. They want to forget, they want.
To move forward in the near pass.
A couple last weekend. But he can't even bring himself to do that because it's not what they want to hear. And so when you put that together with everything, it's it's a it's a high risk thing for a player to leap. On the other hand, you know, I don't know how many people truly understand what who they are and what you're getting into.
I don't think that that I think that's the thing. I don't think that the general public understands. I happened to run into somebody on a golf course who you know, was like, oh, I listened to golf dot com subpar podcast about Greg Norman and he which you know they Colton Drew did an interview. They they didn't really ask many tough questions. I don't think they identify themselves as journalists, so you know, whatever that may be. But they didn't
ask any questions. But the guy was like, it's pretty interesting, there are some interesting ideas. And I think that's the issue with you know, the general public just I don't think it necessarily understands the the you know, impetus and why they're doing this. And like you said, they could get bored and pull the plug.
There.
They're kind of they're kind of deploying what what Uber deployed. You know, we're going to kill the taxi industry, which is, you know, by offering an attempt to offer a better product that pays pays more or in Uber's case, is way cheaper for the consumer and more convenient.
And then once we.
Have killed off all the competition, we can do whatever we want with it. And that's the thing I think it's scary is that it could start as something and if they effectively kill the PGA tour then it could evolve into something that's even worse, you know than the PGA tourist product.
Ever was right right, and then one player one day could say Holy cow, I just read a book about this whole kushogi thing. This is terrible. And they could they could, I mean the whole thing. You just don't know what could set them off. And that's uh, you know, that's something where the the agents and people involved have to to do the homework for the players and explain
that to them. Because I had a conversation with a player at Revier this year and it was an amazing description of what this was and you know, I had no concept of it was just to this player, it was just a it's a rich guy who really wants to get into golf. Well, it's a little more complicated than that. And then the fund and and and then it's obviously complicated because the public investment fund is involved in a lot of well Uber you just mentioned.
Yeah, Well that's the.
Hard thing is I mean, you you live your daily life and you're probably contributing some money to to this, you know, regime, and you know that is something that's important to point out, is that they are involved in our lives every day almost you know, as is.
Yeah, and so that's one of those things where it's a it's hard for a lot of people to call out this group and the way they're behaving. And but again I just I just go back to, you know, at least you know, the premier goth Leete concept. Uh, there was with with you know, the franchise concept that they are building a lot of their dream or idea around. Obviously is a money play. It creates value and their tax implications and great things, but it also is a
statement about creating something for the long term. And so now that the Saudis have dropped the that element of the or concept and it's a startup. It's a beta.
Yeah, billions of dollars and no product billions. Yeah, it's a pre they got a pre money valuation. They you know, they got a huge pre money valuation.
Yeah, of course.
The thing is Greg's the founder of this startup that has zero equity, you know, zero control. Is it's just like a pre money valuation startup.
Yeah, it is. And and what's the long term vision? Now when you strip away the one thing that would be the incentive for players and for investors, uh, to to build and to build into something bigger and bigger and bigger and create that value of the franchise. And so that's the brilliance and also where you get the comfort level with what the PGL concept does and now
whether that has any gain, any traction with people. You know, I still have my doubts about the team element working if there's only really one team event at the end and they're small teams. Yeah. Anyway, those are all details, and you can look at team Tennis and say, well, that didn't work, and that could be the same thing in golf. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, I think. And from all this, the PGL has come out way ahead in terms of their image. Unfortunately, you know, the Saudi's kind of hijack their idea and and you know, just in terms of you know, their intentions and what they're looking for onto positive things.
We're right around the corner from Augusta. Yeah, but what's one.
Storyline you're particularly keen heading into the Masters this year?
Well, as somebody who loves golf architecture, naturally, I'm totally fascinated by the changes at the eleventh hole and how that's going to play. You know, we've gotten a teaser which we don't normally get thanks to Eureka Earth, so we get to see what's going on, and it's intriguing, the fifteenth a little bit longer. There's some there's been talk of some greens being redone. You've written a piece
about some some widening. The last aeriels did look it did look a little wider, but the rough also looked pretty pretty healthy. Who knows, it may have just rained for a few days and then cut it. Excuse me, the second cut. I got to start getting into my into my master speak mode, and so I'm always interested to see what they've done with the golf course, how it plays, how the players react. You know, it's it's another fascinating thing I've been. I've been, you know, at Riviera.
I talked to players about something I was working on for the old course, and you know, we haven't really had many reports the players going there and playing. You know, that used to be such a thing and now it's more of rest and get there. Caddy figures out the lines, we discuss it the tea, we crunch the numbers, and
we go play. So we really haven't gotten I mean, by now we should have gotten some players speaking about what they've seen, and there just hasn't been much, or if they've been, they just haven't been asked and all that.
So I'm I think there's the there's so much other stuff going on.
Yeah, that's part of it too.
I can't remember a Masters where it's been.
You know, the conversation's been so quiet about it coming up because of everything that's going on in the sport. You know, usually like each week is kind of this Master's build, and it seems like each week now is the latest in this soap opera we've been watching with the Saudi's.
Well, and also it's just the time we're in where we have some parody Tiger and Phil. Well, Tiger's not playing who knows what Phil. Hopefully Phil plays, if he's gonna play, Hopefully he plays at the Valeros. So it's not a full spectacle when he arrives at Augusta. Rory's Grand Slam West has been done now for several years, so that's yeah, that's lost a little of its luster. And the way he's putting you don't really feel like
right now his game is shaping up for Augusta. But who knows, he could anything could happen, but it doesn't doesn't look great. So yeah, there's not any great storyline with players coming in. Somebody's not on a streak, and the Major's Brooks is cooled.
Off speed spend kind of quiet too, very.
Quiet, and he's that the swing looks strange. And by the way, speaking of duck hooks, he had a few riv I saw, so it still can be done with modern equipment. But yeah, he cooled.
Off Smith on sim Smith.
Oh my gosh, that was a quacker. That was an old school which made his T shot on eighteen so incredible because again, like you said earlier, once you hit one of those, uh, and again there's a whole bunch of players who just don't know what that feels like. And once you hit one, it's the same as a shank. It's the same same kind of thing.
It gets you here. Next one's going way right no matter what.
Yeah, and he hit that beautiful T shirt on a teen, Like my gout, he kept it on the planet. I would. I was impressed.
I think the thing with the snaphook that is like so many times you hit it so flush and it's just so far it doesn't feel that as bad as like you know, when you block one, right, but that snap hook can can sometimes feel pretty good.
Yes, I'll believe me. Uh, I'm from the era when when we transitioned and shafts were not like they were, and there were certain shafts you you you'd like if you look up, you felt great and impacting. Where why what happened? How did that happen?
That was a good swing, that felt good?
Yeah, And I think that's the thing about the hook is where it can feel really good and then then to the next one there's no way that's you know that that one is going right no matter what.
Yeah, And I don't miss that part of the game, and I don't think we want to bring it back, and I don't think these rule changes are intending to do that, and they it's very hard to with again with the quality of the equipment, But I do think we'd love to see that that just slight throttling back out of fear of missing the sweet spot would be I think it would do a lot of good and it would also help. Yeah, that's the thing we've got
to you know. The Green Reading Books, I think is a great example of where the players actually took the initiative, either because they saw how stupid it looked, you know, guys standing there watching another player plot and looking over to the crowd and seeing people laughing at a guy with the book up to his face. So they watched it at home and it and somehow maybe the PGA
to a rule staff did it. They got it to their ego and said, look, you know you guys, you all time, you really good players, you Brooks's and your rories. You're this is stupid. You look stupid. You're gonna you're not gonna appreciate this. Your generation is gonna look dumb. And those guys took the initiative to kind of get a skill of green reading back, whether it was for optics or whatever it was. And I think on the distancing that's the job of Jason Gore and the various
player representatives. The PGA Tour role staff is like this, this is not to humiliate you. We're not trying to embarrass you. We want you, We want that that really great player to just be separated a little bit more, uh, with these these changes, and if they can buy get that buy in and not feel like they're gonna be we're trying to make them snaphook it and look bad. I think it'll it'll sail through.
I think this is one other aspect we talk about the Masters and having a little bit less pop. One other aspect of a really, really, really young tour is that we don't have these built up storylines for for a decade, we don't have I mean, Sam Burns is in the top ten in the world, has won three times, and he hasn't played in the Masters.
Yeah. I'm really starting to get concerned about that in terms of getting to know players, and I feel like this and television still really matters. So I have PJ Tour live on a lot and every once in a while for a bathroom break for the announcers, they'll go to a pre canned feature on a player and they're short, you know whatever, they are a minute or something. But I'm like, that's great, Wait, that was good. We need
to do more of that. And the network model now is so shot driven, and I think this is going to be looked back on as a disaster. You know. Again, golf is not thrilling, and you need reasons for people to watch. And it used to be a sport that that that old old ladies. I knew. I knew a few, you know. A friend of my mom's mom love golf,
never play in their life and they're there. I think we're losing touch with with a broader audience by just showing shot after shot after shot and not you know, going into the let's let's do thirty seconds where the catty just shows us what the player has in his bag and it shows a little personality or whatever it is we're missing out. Of course, we're getting no sound from the course, which every other sport is bringing you sound so you get to to hear these people. The
players don't want to be heard whatever. I just feel like we're moving in a very dangerous direction along with what's going on with the parody where uh it's it's gonna be hard for a casual fan to uh to really kind of get invested. Plus, you know, let's face it, the old broadcast used to be a little bit of
a yeah it's beauty, and we got that. CBS especially, it's just killing it with the visuals and the drone and the blamp and camera angles and improved, but uh, you know, the travelogue element to a broadcast, the length of the broadcast, you know, I just I'm kind of weird in that I almost think like the network shows should be a little tighter and a little bit more produced and less about shots. So I and I don't know how you measure how that has an impact, but I feel like it does.
It's also on the TV network that has doesn't do any features anymore.
No, No, that's what I mean.
Yeah, I mean, are they beyond it's beyond just the broadcast.
But I think you know, you look at print journalism when Brenda and I on the Shotgun start to those spotlights. You know, you go back and you read these these feature pieces from sports illustrated from from you know, the nineties and the eighties and seventies, and you just think to yourself, God, this whole era of golf is devoid
of that. You know, the idea of sending a journalist to right Sevy or to uh Jose Maria ol Thabo's town too, you know, in Inhi May, I believe it was him, didn't even have an interview set, and he was there for a week and he just talked to the people that knew Jose Maria and and and you know, and you're just missing the storytelling and in the uniqueness and and everything now is run through a filter through
the agent. So I think that's an important thing to point out is when you see these appearances on podcasts, These are set up through the agent. Then they've got really strict talking points and different things with with some of them. You know, some are better, some agents are better than others. But you know, this is everything's kind of of uh doled out on a kind of fed out in a in a manner as opposed to the authenticity of the player profiles and different things is so much less now.
And I think Golf.
The telecast is an interesting subject because I think this is a knee jerk of swings, like they can swing in different directions and maybe it was too produced and now they're pushing for more shots. Obviously there's all these features and sponsor features that need to be put in there, and and that you know, maybe that's the next thing that's pushed against, is that, you know, really, what is the FedEx Cup updates doing?
What are they doing?
Yeah, the FedEx Cup file? Yeah, he likes to go fishing. Yeah.
Great.
Although I think they've trimmed some promos this year, which is kind of the other interesting thing. We're getting more shots in part because they've they have trimmed a few things. Instruction is another thing I mean, I don't I don't need a golf lesson. But guess what, most of the people watching the broadcast would love more instructions Johnny Miller. You realize Johnny was so masterful one because he called
it like he saw it. He knew how to create drama, and then he also knew how to educate you a little bit about the game and say, hey, now look here. You know, and some people didn't like his swing analysis and thought he was dead wrong and whatever, but that's some that's controversial. Those little things that are are being chipped away at I think are really problematic. And then to your point, yeah about I mean, look at the reaction.
Uh Dan Rappaport's piece on Morgan Hoffman got and that was kind of that used to be done as a lot, Yeah, and now it's not done and they spent the money he went, He traveled a long way and it must have been, you know, in the works for a while and is and it wasn't a great and a fascinating read. And there are more stories like that, but yeah, those are all gone. And uh yeah, the Masters build up
used to be. I used to I couldn't wait to get the golf World Preview issue, the SI Golf Plus issue, the Golf Digest, Golf magazine did great blowout stuff, and they'd usually be pretty original, and that stuff now is just kind of I mean, I did a piece of my newsletter just kind of revisiting one I wrote in twenty ten for Golf World about the links between Saint
Andrews and Augusta National. And it's amazing how many people when I did the piece or they still stumble on it, like I had no idea and I saw the headline and that sounds stupid. And then you you know, you explained all the backstory of Bobby Jones and and like those kinds, and so it was fun for me to revisit it and not hate what I wrote and then add a few things that have been we've learned since. But yeah, there's no place doing that now, and I think all that adds up to being not great for
the sport. That said, but at the same time, those podcasts you're talking about, they're still great that they're they're doing those even if they are you know, their guidelines. And then social media is a tool that I you know, would love to see that the TV networks just don't use very well to to do a little feature and if the worst case scenario is they put it on the social feed, that's it. But then if they get a rain delay or something, they can put it on
the broadcast. They just go right to the tape of the replay of the rain or the tournament before, the year before. And they're also doing, by the way, very little. I haven't looked, but I haven't seen anything lately of old Masters. CBS had built that they were going to do a lot of old retro broadcasts of tour events this year, so little stuff. All those little things kind of add up, and I don't I think they're kind of being reflected in the ratings too.
The players has done a wonderful job, and it's like adding time you an old Players is on, there's buzz about it.
You know.
It's like people are like enjoy going back and watching nine nine players and in different things. But so we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up here, We're gonna see you in uh in Augusta and uh you're gonna you're you're ramping up. This is quadrilateral season. This is what people should be signing up for. So you'll be on site, and uh, how do people go about signing up?
Ah, well, they can just go to my my main website just spelled g Off Jeff g E O F F and golf on Google and Jeff Shackle for dot com comes up the sign ups there it's free and uh, or you can try and spell quadrilateral. It's not that hard, but but it'll it'll turn up somehow, and or go to substack they have a ranking. And so yeah, it's going really well. And I'll be doing daily reports. I don't know, you know the majors where I stayed home during the pandemic. Uh, it was more of news and
notes every day. I hope to be a little bit more, try to bring something a little more from on site. So we'll see. I'm a one man fan.
So well, Jeff, we'll talk to you soon.
And and thanks for coming on.
All right, my pleasure.
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Friday Podcast. Today's episode was edited by meg Atkins. Thank you, mech And just a reminder, we have another show, the Shotgun Start, if you're ever looking for more podcasts.
The Shotgun Start is a three day.
Week Monday Wednesday Friday podcast that delves into the world of professional golf mostly so if you want more takes on pro golf, this is a great spot to go. So it is on wherever you get your your podcasts. I host it with Brendan Porath. It is a it's a wonderful listen. It's it's something that you can get habitually into a little bit different speed than the f So thanks for listening. We will be back on Friday with another new episode.