I miss a green for example, I'm already upset.
When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a fried.
Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg brid Egg, Frida Egg Bride Egg Lie.
I'm about ready to run off of the hump course. Welcome back to the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today I'm really excited. We got some new stuff cooking. If you haven't been to our website in a while, we've been uh investing a lot of time and energy into the website. We've got Bo on our team who you probably have never heard of. He does great work on the web website, constantly improving it and the latest feature is called fried Egg Guides.
So what we're going to do with these pages is kind of breakdown popular destinations. So this podcast is all about a couple popular destinations Pinehurst, Sand Valley and as well as Northern Ireland. And you should go check out the website, thefrid Egg dot com and go find the guide pages. They'll be easy to find right on the home page and you can read about all these destinations as well, So check out the website if you haven't
been there in a while. We've done a lot of work on that and there's a ton of stuff to read about golf courses on the website, tons of photos to produce through, so check that out and other big Fried Egg news. We're really excited we have published our first book. It's a coffee table book and it's spent something that we've talked about doing lots of people have asked us to do for years and really excited about this one. It's gonna be volume one of uh, you know,
books about golf courses that we create. This one. The theme of it is, uh, it's really centered. We turned ten years old, so it's been ten years since the start of this which is wild in December. But the theme of this volume one is golf courses that shaped Friday Golf. So it's it's a lot of golf courses that we visited in the early years and it's it's writing about those photographs from those and you can pre order this book at proshop dot Thefrida Egg dot com.
I'm pretty excited about it. I think it's going to be a very beautiful book and lots of photography and and some really good writ in the book. So big thanks to our entire team that has kind of pulled this together, all the writing and there, I think it's predominantly between me, Garrett Morrison, and Matt Rusch's it's it's all about golf courses. So this is a great gift for the holidays. This is a great book for your
coffee table, your office, wherever it may be. I think our idea we wanted to design something that felt a little bit different than your your standard golf book. So I'm really excited about this. I've looked at uh, I've gotten some advance not a copy. I haven't gotten an official copy yet, but I got the pages. You know, I don't know how these book things work, but I got pages. I got sent just a a big pile of pages that were the pages of the book, and
the covers covers yellow. It should be. It's pretty cool. I'm excited about that. So it's at proshop dot thefried egg dot com. You can see that there. And let's get to our guests. So joining us on this episode are a couple members are our team that put together these various guides. I've been to all these destinations, so you know, riveting discussion about all of them. We are joined by Brendan Poorath, Will Knights and Abby Libenthal on
this episode to break down these various destinations. All right, let's get to Brendan Poorath and let's talk about Northern Ireland. All right, Brendan, welcome on this side of the podcast world. How are you.
It's good to be here.
I have to talk in more hush tones and use some fancier terms on the side. Just be yourself, all right, make more MPR type phrases, turn of phrases.
Okay, I don't think that's this this podcast. No, I don't, Yeah, this is this is a fairly low brow podcast. That's not true. We are talking about your your Guide of Northern Ireland. New website features very exciting We went to Northern Ireland together. We did a whole podcast feed about it. If anybody wants to dive in really deep, it's called Explorations. It's in there. But you wrote about your your experience
going to Northern Ireland. You obviously went this year again for the Open Championships, so you've got two weeks of your life under your belt in Northern Ireland. Obviously haven't seen everything, but you know you've seen some stuff. You've you're you're more more educated than most about the subject in America, not not in Northern Ireland. What are your kind of tips other than don't get lost in downtown Port Rush.
That was the great amusement of the Open Championship was Joseph referring to a downtown Port Rush. And I think the entire country of Northern Ireland seeing this TikTok and mocking him for a week or two on end. I don't understand the TikTok bloodstreams or how it got there. But yes, there is no downtown Port Rush. There's just Port Rush. Port Rushi is a small town, so it's substantive. It is a town. It's not like you know, one intersection. It's substantive. It's a port. But I don't think you
could characterize as mid downtown uptown. It's just Port Rush. Ah, But that became a subject of amusement to the locals. Yeah, I think the first thing, like, obviously we're excited about these guides on the website, and as you stated, I've
been there twice now in two years. I don't think we're narcissistic enough or diluted enough to suggest this is the end albeit all noah at all, but it is like we have pretty substantive experience going there for I don't know about twenty days of my life the last two years, and leaning on the locals who have lived there their whole lives, like we get a flood of recommendations, a flood of do not go there, overrated, that's shite or whatever you want to call it, from the locals,
And that's kind of what we've done to compile the guide. I think, you know, the overarching, overarching takeaway is the fact that I've been there twice in about I don't know, twenty five months or so, or no, thirteen months, thirteen months, you know, twice in about thirteen months suggests that it's much more within reach than I thought, right, And sometimes the idea of going international, the idea of planning international, is way more daunting than just actually going and doing it.
And once you do it, like, ah, that's not that bad, right. It's sort of like the you got a surgery or something, so like a dent disappointment, you're way more worked up about it then what actually happened, and then like getting there is just not that hard, especially as an East coaster in the United States. It's almost too short on the way over as a red eye, it's like there's not a lot of sleep in time. It's five five and a half to Dublin.
You're saying this to man that has a series of red eyes in this near future that are all shorter than that red eye.
Right, I understand, it's just it is too short if you're really trying to get a lot of sleep, more than a couple hours. But it's so within reach you leave. And this I speak as someone who had travel difficulties on this last go round. I still maintain this point of view that is not that hard. And you're in Northern Ireland. You're in Newcastle within two hours of landing in Dublin if you don't choose to stay in Dublin, which I would suggest, if you're going to Dublin, you're
flying in and out of Dublin. You append a couple of days to your trip to experience Dublin. But it is so for an East Coast or New York, DC, Boston. Let's be honest, it's probably easier to get to than some remote, remote American resorts.
Yeah. I think that's the thing that I always feel when I get over abroad, is that I feel this like, and I live on the other side of the country, is I feel like, that wasn't that bad? Now for me, the eight hour time change, communicating with my family that we that is challenging, like that that presents unique challenges. But when I get there, I'm like, this was not that bad. And every time I'm there, I'm kind of thinking to myself, why don't I do this more often?
But then when I get home it becomes daunting again. And I do think for the East Coast, this is extraordinarily easy. This is you know, direct flight into Dublin, direct flights into Edinburgh, direct flights into you know, various you know, London. These are all very achievable and fairly easy things to do. And if you're looking at like all, like I think what's particularly interesting is like when you start looking off peak, you know, non summer travel, like very affordable flights.
Totally. It was another thing. I'm very inexpensive, and I went July from DC. I booked it maybe two months in advance. I think it was like five hundred and six hundred bucks for like not the most basic whatever one not premium or not.
I'm not conm like five.
Hundred and six hundred dollars that's hard to get even to like cross country in the US nowadays, and that's in July.
I think one of the things that uh and I don't want to speak for you, but one of the things that I was taken aback from our trip to Northern Ireland was I think people like Cement. This is a you know, in the like Let's be real, most people listening to this, most people reading these guides are going to go for golf trips. But one of my takeaways from our Northern Ireland trip was this is not
strictly a golf trip destination. This can be a trip where I play a couple rounds of golf and also have my family with me.
I would totally agree.
I think when we were there, I would shade that is much more applicable to the Causeway Coast area. And writing this guide, I was thinking back a little bit more. I don't know if Newcastle like RCD like is the thing, right. It's a cool town, it is its own town. It's not a nothing Burger, But I feel like if you're going with your family like that really applies to the Causeway Coast area of Port Sewer, Port Port Rush, Port Ballintray.
And that is the very northern part.
Northern side of Northern Ireland, not the northern most part of the island of Ireland, and as Donegal actually was more north, but that's part of the Republic. Yes, the northernmost part of Northern Ireland is the Causeway Coast and I think there were several times when we were there we're like, oh, I kind of wish like we'd see like families and kids kind of bouncing around the beach or in the coffee shop, like I could do this. I think my wife could do this. I think my
kids could do this. Now, all in them there is its own challenge, but there was it was much more than just you're only here to play golf. All you can do is play golf, and why would you do anything else around here? That for sure is the case on the North Coast.
I think you you know, I obviously live in a part of the country that has a lot of active hikers, but you could make the case that if you if you're you know, into a couple other active lifestyle things such as hiking. Newcastle with the more mountains is like a a viable stop and there's stuff to do, Like I think, like one of my big regrets was that
we didn't go do the Morn Mountain hike. It was probably because I had just completed a marathon days before and wasn't enough for the seven hundred foot incline.
But the Morn Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty which is essentially like a National park right next to Newcastle RCD.
And then the other thing I would hit on is port Rush, like some other towns in Ireland, very active surf culture. So if you are a surfer, which you know, there's I think there's a small subset of like people that love the idea of places I can go surf and golf at the same time. This is a small subset of golferst but this is this should be on the list of places where you can actively surf and golf along with the Hinch you know you could go
down to. You know, there's a bunch of other places you know, all over but if you could do port Rush a surf there plus golf, that's about as good of golf, the golf version of that trip as you can get. I know, I know the waves can be a little inconsistent there, but it is does have an active surf culture.
Yeah, that was.
That always hoppen too in July when we were there for the Open, whether it was a surfing or just kids families on the beach. It was a little amusing to see like Americans and tourists over from for the Open and be like, oh my god, it's like seventy and windy and who knows what the water is, but it felt like one hundred to a lot of the people. It would just hoppen a lot of surfers, great beach scene there in July.
It's hard you get centered on these golf trips and I feel like you don't always do the extracurricular activities. Sure, I think that is like some I regret from our trip, and it was March was I was. I regret that I didn't go in the water, like I didn't go in a swim. We were right next to the we were effectively stayed on the water, and I know Matt from our team went in. I did not go. I regret that, But there are extracurriculars.
You know.
A couple of things we did do that I was very happy about was the Causeway Coast. You know, we obviously hit up a lot of different restaurants and and things. What are your recks outside of golf for Northern Ireland.
I think you've hit on a few of the activities already. I think you have to hit the more mountains.
We did not.
You were decrepit and from your marathon we went over there. We did not do the hike. You have to do that, have to serve, have to see the coastal towns of Port Rush and Port Stewart. I think like immersing yourself
in the actual town, like there's there's stuff there. I think like sometimes when you go on these golf trips, you are just you're sort of beholden to the itinerary that is set for you by a resort, and you only eat at a resort, and you only eat at like it's the same burger and it's the same beer, and it's it's all coming from the same kitchen, and it's all coming from the same you know till and here there are actual towns to go immerse yourself in. And I found Port Stewart on return, I think it's
just like a really really charming town. I think it's it's coffee and food. Seeing i'd probably put a tick above Port Rush. I don't know if that's going to bother some people. They're more more or less the same, right, I mean, let's not. I don't think there's any great rivalry. Maybe there is amongst the golf courses, but not amongst the towns that I saw. My favorite meal we had was this place of Michi restaurant. It was an Italian place and I was like, ah, you go to the
northernmost part of Northern Ireland to get Italian. But it came like super super recommended from everyone, fancy folks, regulars, locals. And we had that during like at like ten pm on a before the open started. And that was a must too for me in terms of it's a flexible kind of menu. And it was like right on the water on the cliffs next to the old course Port Stewart, and that was a cool scene. And of course Lost and Found has become sort of our home away from home.
This coffee shop on the other side of Port Stewart, Amichi is is between Port Rush, and Port Stewart, but this Lost and Found coffee shop, which we got to know the owner, Dave, lying us a little bit. We went back multiple times when I was there for the Open. We went there two or three times on our first trip, I think. And so those were some of like just the little bites of culture where you feel like you are not being shoveled everything that a certain golf resort has to offer.
I think the other thing that the particular the Causeway Coast area has is they have a lot of like smaller golf options. Yeah, and we didn't visit these, but I've heard from enough people that I trust that like affordable and like quick rounds of golf are available at Bushfoot, which is right next to the Bush Mills Distillery.
I'll say on that Shackleford, who you know we would consider a trusted source and friend played it multiple times when he was over the open and would like come in the next day just talking about how charmed he was playing bush Foot. It's a nine hole or multiple routings, you can make it eighteen, but it's nine holes on the river bush and Shaq was like just fired up with some like twilight post dinner rounds of bush Foot, but go ahead with.
And these are really long days. Yeah, And I like, I think like one of the things, I don't know if this is me aging, but like as I you know, as I plan more golf trips, and you know, I obviously go on a ton of golf trips every year, I really like to build in time for different activities, time to be in the town, but also time to just like go show up at golf courses that aren't
necessarily the famous ones. And I think when you're in that area, obviously the ones that you have to hit or try to have to hit are both courses at Port Rush and then Port Stewart, particularly the front nine is like extraordinary. And then you know, I think Castle Rock was really fun, but you know it might not be in the very like the top of the bucket. I think the we course is about as fun of a golf course as you can play. The bond at Castle Rock.
I was reading back on that I didn't play that I was writing and you and Cameron went out for that, and Cameron's like, bring like a twelve brin a dozen golf balls. This is the most penal golf course. But it was an absolute blast. It was so fun. That ninth hole, or I mean the last.
Hole there is like a ninety yard part three and it's really cool. It's like blind but like it's lost ball if you hit miss the green.
But you guys both came up like god, that was fun and you played and I don't know what the ninety minutes last forty minutes, yeah, yeah, fifty minutes quick. I was trying to write an article and you were you were off before that.
I think that's like the thing is like you have the you have bally Rag, which terryll Hatton was playing like the night before the Open Championship.
Kind of situated up above on the cliffs like we talked about.
I think it's like ten pounds. Yeah, it's like on the ocean.
It's one of these things where the locals are like, ah, that's kind of a shit, like but they don't know how good they got it. Just to have it as a thing, as an option to play for forty minutes or whatever.
It is the original Port Stewart course. I've always wanted to play, and you've got bush Foot, you've got the Bond Course, Like you have these like small golf options so doing a day where you play a morning round somewhere and then you just leave the afternoon open. You have all these options to go play more golf. You have the option to like hang out in town. You have the option to go get a nice lunch, late
lunch and sit somewhere. I think that's like the charm of trips to the UK, And I think like people don't necessarily think about Northern Ireland in that vein, but I think it's absolutely an opportunity to do that.
So one thing I struggled with the guide or not struggle, I confind the question of like, if you go to Northern Ireland and you don't play RCD or Royal Report Rush or somehow both, do you have to play both? If you go there to feel fulfilled or walk out of there considering it a success?
You know, I think that's a good question. I would say that the proximity of them to Dublin is a no, because it's not far away. That's yeah.
I think that's where I landed.
Play one.
I think if you go when you play neither, you're probably feeling a little unfulfilled. But I think you're gonna And I struggle with this like with everything I do, whether it's a golf trip or Disney World, it's like I'm so anxious while I'm there to do everything, but when I leave, it's like, God, that was a great time. And I think that would be the case if you don't see one of the two pillars. I think that's the case.
I did. I agree. I would agree with that. I think you can you can do it without seeing it, and and I think like one of the things is like you can make this trip really affordable if you wanted to make an affordable fun golf trip, Northern Ireland is a place you could do it where you could do these kind of like more mom Pa golf courses. I now, like, do I think it's like the best trip in the world. No, But do you get to go experience links golf and culture and the culture there without,
you know, without breaking the bank? Yes?
Can I A let's play a little games. So we were there for the Open and we played Royal County down on our way out of town with a morn member, which meant we had to go late on Monday, like five o'clock, which was great. We had a day we needed to get out of port rush work. Are we down and get to Dublin by night time? So it was it worked out. It was like a five pm How much do you think the reputed number one golf course in the world, Royal County down? What was talking about mod pa and affordable?
What do you think?
What do you think it was? I don't even know if it's twenty thirty pounds, yeah, thirty pounds. It's the way North Barracus too.
It was.
I was with someone from Ireland who knows the whole scene. It was like incredulous even at that at that price, and yeah, so it's it is affordable. I would you know, having gone twice now and I think you can speak to this too.
I don't.
I don't know if it cuts into the cost a little bit. I do think going in a non tourist time or heaviest tourist time is a good idea, is a good thing to explore. When we got pretty fortunate with weather in March, but we got like real Port Rush, real culture, real Newcastle. This was like it wasn't just a bunch of Americans there And I'll say, like the open going to the Harbor Bar was a shit show and it's the Open.
I get it.
There's thousands of people in town. The guinness wasn't very good. It wasn't as good. There's a bunch of drunk idiots.
But I'm not center around.
Yeah, Bomber wasn't around. Like I'm not suggesting it's like that every July when there's not an open, but there's not the American tourist element in March. I don't know if you found that to be sort of more of an advantage disadvantage.
I was.
I've been working on another guide on Fife in St Andrews area, and obviously the first time I went there was the Open Championship, and then this spring i went and something that I think about like that I would recommend to anybody that's going to Saint Andrews And this will be probably a future podcast, but I would really recommend going when school's in session because there's like an added energy to that town when there's when the university is in and it's just I don't there's something about
like college towns that I find like really like wonderful and versus like when I went Peak in the summer, it's just peak tourism and we went in April this year and April's the driest month in Scotland. But also it's like not when it's just jammed with visitors, it's a little bit slower, and I think that really lends itself. It's easier to get into the restaurants you want, it's you interact with more locals, which to me is what
I want. In particular, when we went to Northern Ireland, all the courses hadn't opened their visitor tea times yet, so we were literally, you know, for for better or worse, we were picked out like store thumbs by locals, so they knew they were all Everybody was asking us what the hell we were doing there because they knew that this was not a tourist time, but it was you know, there's I think, like the generation, the travel generation right now,
like the travel trends, people are seeking out authenticity and authentic experiences and genuine experience, unique experiences, and I think when you go to these places when they are a little less busy, it lends itself to a little bit more of culture. And I think like one of the like super underraty things is like when you have a little bit less daylight, you're less inclined to play as much golf, and that also lends itself to you feeling better and also experiencing more things outside the.
Golf, more discovery.
Yeah we did that.
I mean we played golf till ten pm at Port Stewart and it's like all right, now we got to find dinner, right and we were lucky to find our way to Michi. I will say, like Port Stewart, you probably need to add that front nine. It's for the American it's Lamaanya was like, oh, this is the greatest golf course I've ever seen in my world, ever seen in the world. He's walking off, like, you know, I think this is better than narcd Like it makes an
impression from the dunes. It's worth going just for the impression it will leave you with. But yeah, we had that, and and I don't know, I think going to Northern Ireland, I have Irish ancestry. I was keenly aware of the troubles, keenly aware of like what that like, is this place like in turmoil?
Is it dangerous?
And all these things, and that that was sort of its identity right for a long time, we Joseph had no sense of that had no idea that like much of that background. I think some of us when on our first trip weren't to weren't.
Aware of that background.
And I think you go now and you know it's there's a matter of fact details that you're in a different country, right, there's the currency, there's a license place, there's all that stuff. But you know, there's no sense of turmoil or anything like that. You see it right away. There's different flags flying all over the place. There may be,
you know, an undercurrent of tension. I think, like, you know, they know who's who and what's what if you're a local, But I didn't really sense at this point it's part of their history of recent history. But it wasn't anything that was imposing at all on the trip, and it feels much more open to that kind of tourists tourist trip.
I would. I would recommend anybody that goes this was kind of on my list. Anybody that goes to Northern Ireland read, especially Americans, read Patrick Radd and Keith rad and Keith's book Say Nothing So honestly like one of the best books I've ever read, and it's all about the troubles. He does like an incredible job of kind of weaving these different kind of stories together. But it I was reading it while we were there, and it was a you know, I was having trouble sleeping because
I couldn't put the book down. And I think like just in general, like when we talk about non golf things like one of the things that I would like to go back there and a lot of like the
black taxi tours and explore that kind of history. Uh more. Uh, it was obviously like a very difficult time for that that area, but you know in terms of of history, and it's a it's a it's a fascinating kind of moment and in a troubling way obviously with what was going on, but you know, the history of of that is, you know, just something that after reading that book, I I would like to and talking to locals, I think like that's another part of of the local aspect of
being there and talking just interfacing with with people from the area, is you just learned so much about about that time, and uh, it's definitely part of their history and it's it's one of the big reasons why Port Rush wasn't in the Rota for a number of years. And and why Northern Ireland it was not considered a golf destination until you know, the recent coupled last decades is is this is a golf destination that I think is emerging and and becoming more and more popularized as
you know, more time passes from from the trouble. So it's impossible to talk about the area without you know, understanding that history. And I think Belfast, like we stayed in Belfast our last night, I was coming down with some sort of plague, but we still went out. It was the plague hit really when I was on the on the plane home, which was which was a disaster in itself, but the I think Belfast was a place that I would have liked to spend some time too.
And that's you know, another option of where you center your you know, some of your stay is Belfast, where there's great restaurants, an emerging night life scene and some really nice hotels.
Yeah, yeah, Belfast. We visited Hollywood, which I thought was cool experience to see Rory and Rory's obviously not even more of a prominent figure having won the Grand Slam. I thought that was cool. I don't know if anybody, maybe if you're arrange it in advance. I don't know if you can just be like pulling up like it's a museum. It's still a golf club. But that was cool on the outskirts.
I feel like you probably could be completely.
Honest maybe, Belfast, I feel like you could go have lunch there. You were getting sick, Belfast. I you know, we kind of we stopped on our way in the impression I get is that it's it's still trying to figure its way up and it's a little drab. And you hear that from people down south, who you know, make it seem like you're going to Siberia and it's not. There's good food, there's gas stations, there's life, there's self service, all these things. But people down south did recommend dairy,
like people like fancy folks. We got to know a little bit who might have some discerning tastes, said Darry. Is a cool time and a cool weekend up north, and we were about another what is it like another thirty forty five minutes past Castle Rock and Will Knights went there later at a subsequent time, and it has dairy journals and guides up for that that will include in our guide, which is mostly food, drink, golf in
Port Rush, Portstewart and Newcastle. But Dairy came highly recommended from people down south, with some discerning taste as a cool,
cool place to go with a good night life. And I think Belfast if you are interested in this sort of massive historical struggle in recent history, which is an interesting it's not enjoyable, it's tragic, but it's an interesting history to study it on the list, Belfast is worth kind of stopping on your way through or for multiple nights going from Port Rush to Newcastle or vice versa.
So all right, well you got anything else, No, I'd say go read. It's hard. This is society today. Not a lot of people read. But that's probably the best place to convey a lot of information.
It's bite sized nuggets too. I'm not gonna hit it with the wall of text. You can read quickly if you want.
Put any stay aways there in there.
I you know the pizza place.
In Newcastle that everybody which you know, I recognize that everybody told us to go there, like the locals who know the scene told us to go there. Maybe we're just the American outliers. But I mentioned that it was just crowded.
Maybe I love I feel like sometimes telling people not to go places is more powerful than telling people where to go. Yeah, that is true.
Just want to be cognizant of maybe the mob pa that might be on the other end of such a thing.
But yes, like Ziggy's and Saint Andrew's, that's a stayaway from me. I tell everybody that goes do not go to Ziggy's.
All right, the ribs, What did you think? Did you find anything that was super overrated or not that great? I mean, look, you're playing golf and looking to fill up. There's stuff that I've ranked higher than others, right, And you know, the Remore has such a stranglehold on Port Rush. They like own the whole all the restaurant group, like Harbor Bar, Harbor Bistro, the Italian Pizza Place, the Remore Wine Bar. They own like the entire thing. And I'm just fresh off the open where it was like that
was the only place you get any table. So I think that could kind of constrict variety in a way. I enjoyed going to the Harbor Bistro, which is the food place attached to the Harbor Bar, But I just I thought it felt like sort of a monopoly on the whole town.
Honest earnest recommendation, gas station sausage rolls on the way into Port Rush. There's a gas station from town a couple of times. Yeah, pretty good, ernest opinion. Pretty good. You know, it's kind of like Texas where the gas station food isn't isn't vile. You know, Texas, you stop at a gas station, get some barbecue. That's that's fine. And uh, Northern Ireland stopping at that in Port Rush stopping at that gas station on the way into Port Rush and
getting a sausage roll, big line of people. Good spot.
Yeah, that was a good spot.
We went in there multiple times after working at Port Rush late we stopped there. The only other thing is like staying feels like Airbnb is the way to go on both sides, Port Rush, Newcastle, Port Stewart, or or a vacation rental service Newcastle.
Obviously you got the Marine in Lawn the sleeve donner, which comes with some access to RCD, but you know you're paying through the nose on that.
So it's a taste of American private equity in Northern Ireland is what it is.
And that's fine.
It's still the authentic build like it's the same spot where it's always been. We had a lunch in there on the way to the golf course last time through. It's cool, sat in some high leather, high back leather chairs and had a good lunch.
But you brought up American private equity. I will say one of the charming aspects of Northern Ireland because of its recent you know history, is that it's had less time to have American private equity ruined places. There is a raw authenticity to the area because of the you know, it was not a place that people wanted to dump money for a number of years.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean they're building and Galgoram is building the first new course in some decades, like decades, maybe fifty a long time, probably another several miles west of Castle Rock, which is like this big development. So they're seeing the demand for tea times just I think that element is coming, is what I say.
It is.
So so we'll say, sure sleeve.
Don If America is great at one thing, it's it's putting money into far flung destinations and ruining them.
So but it's awesome. It's a fabulous spot right now. I think it will maintain it's some of its authenticity and independence. Highly recommend a trip there. We think it's within reach. We of course go into all the golf courses too, whether it's you know what we saw walk in the Valley course to Dunloose RCD.
We have those in depth real quick. And that one other thing that we haven't hit on is our glasses. Not my favorite golf course in my opinion, stunning some stunning we used, so it's like pretty crazy, not really. I would not characterize this as a well designed golf course, but it's it's visually stunning. And the other thing I will would hit on is that the town is a really cool place to stop and have a have a guinnocent Yeah.
The arms the arms bar yeah.
By by Shane Lowry's former caddy now now TikTok's. It's a favorite influencer. Min Lulie's caddy, Beou Martin.
He's staking it.
Yeah. I see him and all of his kids in there. If you if you're there at the right time and just you know, rubbishing around.
I think our glasses worth the whatever. It was thirty five forty minute detour from Newcastle, Like if you're up there, you know, hit the town, get over there, you want to play. It's it's stunning. It's different, different kind of cliffs, holes, seaside holes inland hills. Elevation changed a little different, different taste for sure.
Yeah, so it could be if you get it on a windy day, it'd be about as hard as it could cat that day. We however, so the first hole there, it's amazing. Get tea off from the back of a castle over at Bay and the day we were playing, it's just blown like thirty five miles an hour and it was about forty degrees out.
It's one of those couldn't hear the person next to you unless I didn't.
Want to get out of the van. That day, it was like had some flashbacks to some junior golf rounds in like early spring or late fall where you're just like you're you're sitting in your carts early in the morning and you just don't want to get out because you know how cold and windy it is. Yeah, but we did it. It was good.
We got we got through those first few holes when it was at its worst. So good, good experience. Yeah, it's a great trip, great trip for obviously for many Americas, and you have those two pillars that draw people there, but I think there's just a lot more once you take it, so hopefully the guide hits on some of that.
All right, thanks for joining, Thanks for talking Northern Ireland. People can read your profile on the website. All right, let's talk about our partner, Mercedes Benz. For more than thirty years, Mercedes Benz has supported golf around the world from partnering with the most prestigious major championships, tournaments and
players in the professional game. When it comes to excellence, Mercedes Benz SUVs deliver an elevated experience behind the wheel with formattics, impressive all wheel precision, on inspiring mbux technology and state of the art acoustics that immerse you in every moment. Performance means more in a Mercedes Benz. Discover the Mercedes Benz SUV that's right for you at MBUSA dot com. All right, let's get to will Knights. Who's going to talk to us about the Sand Valley area.
I guess it's not really an area. Who's going to talk to us about Sand Valley? William, Welcome on, you are coming to us from the state of Wisconsin to talk about I think what's become Wisconsin's premier golf destination, Sand Valley. You wrote up our Sand Valley Guide. I've got a soft spot a little story time for Sand Valley. When I started this business, it was late twenty fifteen, and then in twenty sixteen I started to go to
golf courses to write about golf courses. And one of my probably like really my first real golf trip with fried Egg. The first like golf course I wrote about was was Sweeten's Cove, but I visited there while I was at a wedding, you know, it wasn't like a
real golf trip. The first real golf trip that I went on was with a couple buddies, you know, under the guise of Friday, was to Wisconsin and we played University Ridge in the morning, and then we drove to Sand Valley to do the Preview Loop, which at the time I think was eleven holes of golf, maybe twelve holes of golf, and they were operating out of a trailer. And so this was twenty sixteen, summer of twenty sixteen.
Now we fast forward nine years and the resort I just like every time I go back, I'm amazed at how much growth, how much bigger it is, And it's just a great memory of for me when the business, our business was in the nacient days and their business was in the nascient days, and it's just always I always reminisce, And it's been amazing to watch that resort.
And obviously you're a Midwestern Midwesterner at heart, even though you live on the East coast now, like, it's been just amazing to watch that kind of resort grow and populate and become super popular with all the masses in the Midwest.
It's funny to say that because I think Sand Valley was actually the first trip that I ever took under the guys of Frida Egg as well. It was like very early when I started writing for you, like on the side of my day job, and I reached out to you. I was like, Hey, is this Sand Valley
place like worth checking out? This was like before I knew anything about golf courses or golf travel, and you helped me get me set up with a buddy, and so I think we went up there the week that Mammoth Dunes opened, and so it's been very similar to you. I have a very early memory of what that resort looked like. And now when my first trip, the main
lodge was built and like Craig's Porch was established. But yeah, it's been kind of crazy that in the last eight years it's gone from a very immature operation to one of the most bustling places in the Midwest. And the fact that just about everyone from around the country now wants to come to Wisconsin to see this resort is pretty amazing.
Yeah, it's it's the last place you would expect these massive sand dunes. And obviously Craig Haltam, that's why it's called Craig's Porch, had found this land and then got the Kaisers involved with it, and it's Michael and Chris Kaiser's operation, and they've done an incredible job of growing it and delivering a world class golf experience, which all stems from their belief of kind of presenting golf as you know, in its truest form, and you know, using
extraordinary sand dunes and credible playing conditions. I think, like when I think about Sand Valley, they've got some really great golf courses, but all the golf courses are amplified by the incredible turf operation they have where they have some of the best playing conditions in the world, and particularly in America. The turf is just so firm and fast that it amplifies all the architecture that they have there.
And that's kind of one of the things that always sticks with me is the is the is just the turf there, and it's a world class surface.
The sound that the ball makes when it hits it's really every golf course out there, but especially like the newer ones when you play lead over Sedge Valley or even Sandbox, because you're so close on some of those shots. The trampoline nature of that stud is. I mean, there is not another place in the Midwest that I've heard that. And every time you return, like you play every golf course, it is as firm and fast as it was the
last time you were there. I think what a lot of people, especially people who are like a nervous looking at the weather, like if there's rain in the forecast, if it rains overnight, like you're not going to know that when you show up the next morning. It just absorbs it so well and they have their their maintenance
practices to your point are incredible. Every single golf course is at its highest level all year round when they're open, and yeah, like getting to play those firm conditions and experience that sound is something that you can't find many places around to the Midwest.
So the golf there has expanded. The Sand Valley Course is the original course. I think this is this will be a little bit different than the previous two conversations on this podcast, where you have like a surrounding town and stuff. You know, it's pretty remote. You can venture out, you know, if you're a brave soul, I would recommend trying to find a supper club. That's kind of a Wisconsin tradition. If you wanted to go off site for a meal, find a local supper club. That's a time
honored Wisconsin tradition that is worthwhile pursuit. But I would say that most people are just going to stay on site and there are dining options there. Let's just talk about the golf real quick. You have the Sand Valley Course, which is the original core Crunchhalk course, that was the first golf course that was built there. Then they built David McClay kids Mammoth Dunes. This is the most popular golf course on the property. It enthralls people with low
scoring opportunities, and you know, it's a big course. There's dramatic dunes. It's a very well routed golf course because it gets through some really dramatic pieces of the property. And I would say, you know, it probably is the course that takes the longest to play, just because you traverse so much property on it. The third course that was built was Sandbox, a seventeen hole part three course by Core and Crenshaw. Then they have the Lido and
Sedge Valley. Those are two of the newer options. The Lido is a private club. You can get access to it during the week in certain t time blocks, but the access is limited, so you're not guaranteed it if you're staying at the resort, but you have to stay at the resort in order to get access, or you need access through a member. And then the final in the Sedge Valley is obviously a Tom dok. It's a
sub seventy pars. We've had so many discussions with Tom about this golf course on this podcast, but it's a really fun golf course, really neat piece of land. And then the newest design is the Comments, which was a collaboration with Michael Kaiser and Jim Craig, a longtime Core and Crenshaw associate. It is another kind of the idea
of fast golf round would come to mind. And I think what's neat about these these golf courses is they have a lot of like quicker afternoon options or morning options. One of the things I like is they have three really big golf courses in Lido, Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes, but they also have three golf courses that can be played in much shorter periods of time and sedg if you're in the morning, particular on Sedge in the afternoon,
it kind of takes the same amount of time. Commons and the Sandbox, you run all of our events and we have, you know, had an annual event every year at sand Valley. How have you been going about like laying out itineraries there?
So I think with any golfers already kind of there's kind of a learning experience that goes with these and as they add new courses, like my preference for how we set those up has changed, and it will change even further with the addition of the Commons starting. I think they're going to allow some previewplay this fall and
then really get going in twenty twenty six. But the idea that I am starting to tell people and what I lay down in the guide is as you as you mentioned like the three big courses, like if you want to take on two of those in one day, like have a it, that is your prerogative. You're welcome to do that, but you're going to be like extremely tired. So if you do Mammoth Dunes, I would say you can definitely do that and paired with another golf course, but just know that this is your big day of golf.
An important note, you know versus like Bandon, Bandon's never getting above seventy degrees Scotland. Similar like the temper, the temperate climate, one of the things to be prepared for is this Midwest summer can be very hot and humid, and that's it's taxing. You played numerous USA I'm thirty six hull qualifiers in your childhood or in those days could be really taxing in thirty six holes. That Sand Valley can be taxing if you play both the big courses.
Definitely, and like it's not impossible by any means. But I think what I would tell people is, if you're going to play two of Mammoth, Sand Valley, and Liedo in the same day, just like just understand what you're getting into, and you kind of have to plan it
around Lido if you're playing that round. But what I would say is, if you're playing Mammoth and Sand Valley the same day, I would do Mammoth in the afternoon when you're like on the more tired side because you have that more forgiving off the t space and it's
like you're probably still going to be able to score. Okay, Although we did have someone at our event this year he shot sixty five in the afternoon on sam Valley after playing Mammoth in the morning, so he shot eight shots better on Sand Valley, but it was his career low round. So in general, when I'm scheduling a trip to Sand Valley, I think I'm trying to avoid doing two of those three on the same day if possible, But at the same time, you kind of have to
work around what Leado tea times you have. I think moving forward with the three kind of different options you have with Sedge Valley, the commons and sandbox. You kind of have the option to do like an alternative day where you play all three of those in once and you wouldn't ever be tired at the end of that. It would be three like very distinct unique kinds of golf, and I think it would be a super fun day, like something that you can't really experience many places in America.
So that's something to consider. But I think in general, if you're pairing a mammoth with a sedge or a mammoth with a sandbox, you're going to have two or three of those days and you're going to get out of there like feeling pretty good. At Like at Bandon, it's such a remote destination that you kind of know that your legs are going to be tired. You're playing thirty six every day. There's not really an easy walk out there. Branch is a little bit easier.
Than the other sportier, but it could be a little The elements can wear you out out there because you're just like it should be just exposed.
I think the only yeah, and the only element that you're gonna get. And you kind of mentioned the humidity in Wisconsin like can get you and if you're like playing Lido in your orst Mammoth really, like if you're in the sand all day and you're trudging through that, like, yeah, your legs are gonna get a little tired. But I think those are the only things that I would really consider when trying to pair thirty six holes out there.
I think a lot of people go up there and they have time for a second golf course. This is a common question with bandon trips too, What's what's the golf course that you play if you could, if you were up there and we'll take Lido out of this, because it's unlikely you're gonna play Lido twice. I would say, if you have the chance to play Lido twice, that's gonna be the one that you're gonna learn. Is gonna be the most revealing if you get to play it
a second time. But if if we take Leedo out of it, of those, which of those golf courses would you play a second time?
I think right now I would lean Sedge because it is so different when you're on opposite sides of the fairway. Not that Mammoth and Sand Valley aren't, but I think the architecture at Sedge does reveal itself in multiple rounds of golf, and you can play different teas out at Sedge. It's not a very long golf course, but if you can you can move forward and move back. There's kind of some hidden tea boxes out there if you want
to really start poking around. So I think that's a golf course where, especially if the wind changes in the afternoon, you could really get some different stuff out there. I don't know that I would play it. I guess we're probably not talking about playing it twice in the same day. But if the pins change out there and you play it back to back days, you're going to see a
completely different golf course. And then if that's not your cup of tea and you want to play one of the other two, like, I wouldn't blame you by any means. I think it just kind of depends on what you're looking for. If you want to like just go make a bunch of birdies and have fun with your buddies, then like go play Mammoth Dunes twice. But if you're looking for more of a championship test, I would definitely do more of a look at Sand Valley or Sedge for that second round.
Yeah, I you know, I think one of the things that Sedge has and why I'd probably pick it. I do really like the Sand Valley course a lot, and I think it kind of gets slept on a little because it's just the first one, and you know, Mammoth
Was is such a commercial hit. I think one of the things I appreciate about Sand about Sedge is I think, like the strategy sense like people love to like, you know, I would say that I romanticize strategy, So I'm saying myself when I say this and others strategy, you know, you have that like lines of charm, like right and left side. I think like where Sedge is right pretty fascinating is there's a lot of distance strategy in sense of do I push up near the green because there
are a lot of shorter par force. Do I push up near the green or do I lay back? And I think that's what makes it. You know, like you can play a hole and you can push it up near the green and you can be like, oh, I do not want to be here, and then you want to play it a second time because it's like I'm gonna hit three iron off this tee and that golf course has a lot of variability and how you can play the holes from a strategic sense of of club
selection off the tee. I'm not talking about lines, but club selection off the tee. So I think that is that's probably the course that I would play a second second time if I uh, it's probably the course. Like you know, I think they are like these like there's a lot of differences in golf courses. And I've said this a lot on this podcast, Like there are like dramatic like golf courses that you you know, if you had one course, one round left in your life, you
go play this golf course. But then there are also like the you know, golf courses that you'd like to play over and over and again. And I think Sedge falls into that bucket, like it would be a delightful place to play every day of your life.
I think the other fun part about Sedge, especially you don't have to be a good player, but like because you look at the scorecard and you see fifty eight hundred or fifty seven hundred and par sixty eight, like you think you're going to put like a low number up there, and the most of the time that's not
going to happen. It's going to sneak up and bite you, and you're going to get towards the end of the round and you write down whatever your score is, or you're going to play a match and you're going to say like, like I really just want to give that another try. There's shots out there that I can do better this time, Or I would love to play different match against somebody from a like they pulled off the shot, I want to try to pull that off now. There
is there's also like the walk element to it. I think they did a really good job with the environment.
When you're out at Sedge Valley, just walking through the section of four or five, six, seven is so compact and tight and it's just a really neat kind of hillside, and then you get out into the expanse of nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, and each of those different sections is such a unique experience and kind of feels very different than the rest of the resort and it is a really cool place to go back to multiple times.
Yeah, yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Let's talk a little bit about about food dining options there. They have obviously the Mammoth Bar. They have Aldos, which is like a kind of their high end restaurant. They have the New Gallery, which is a you know, it's like an Italian restaurant. It's it's hoppened. It's in the Tennis Center. And then they have Craig's Porch, which is up at the top that's right at the
first tea of the original sand Valley course. What are your what are your favorite places to eat and drink there?
I think you Also we also got Bill's Barbecue over by the sandbox, so they've done a really good job.
I think, as you haven't ever had Bills barbecue, this is oh well, this might be the one place I haven't eaten there.
There you go, so, yeah, has just sandwiches.
It's very simple. If you're over there, you can get just a sandwich. It's good though, Yeah, you know for sure.
Yeah, they got a little little bar. I think for my what I put in the guide was my recommendations for breakfast and lunch are to kind of save your pennies and go to Craig's Porch or have breakfast sandwiches at the golf courses. Because you can go out to Craig's porch and get tacos for a dollar, or you can be on Sedge Valley and when you're I mean it's kind of an inopportune time, but they're halfway house is right by twelve Tea and they have these hand pies.
I think they're called salcitas. I might might be butchering that, but they're effectively like a really large amponada and they're also a dollar. You can get breakfast sandwiches at Craig'sport for three bucks, so if you want to.
I think one of the one of the best things to do when you're there, and this is someone that I think like one summer I might have been up there like eight or nine times. One of the best things you can do early in the morning is just wake up, walk up to Craig's porch, sit down and enjoy breakfast sandwich while the sun's coming up.
It's so peaceful up there and you can kind of just watch people. You go off one and just like go down that hill and it's such a really nice view of just like golfers walking out into the expanse. It's really neat and the other so other food and beverage notes would be also at Craig's Porch, like ice cream sandwiches up there, you can kind of get care
away pretty easily. And then at so at Bill's Barbecue, it's a really cool spot because you're overlooking the Ninth Hole on Sandbox, which is basically the putting hole, and there's all so much ground action that's it's basically dinner and a show over there. They have this massive walking taco which they put in like a free Doo's bag. It's it's not like the walking taco you had at Little League.
It's like had side.
So I mean it's terrific, so really good spot. And then I think the the Aldos and the Gallery are interesting because they are like the Gallery seems like super imposing because it's this big tennis building, but then you go in there and they have like family style pastas and pizzas and it's really inviting and just this big kind of food hall. And they do a really good job with the drinks that are offered in there, and if you're if you're looking at the wine lists, they
have different wine lists between the restaurants. So the one of the Gallery is like very focus on Italian lines because they're paring it with pastas and pizzas, and then you go over to all those and it's kind of more paired with the meats and poultry that they got over there. So they really did like a job of kind of setting you up for each individual experience. And then the bars at Mammoth Bar is great. And just to have some cheese curds and spotted cows at the end of the.
Night or cheese curds are a rack.
You know.
Do you have any stay aways? Do you have any stay aways? Is there something that that just doesn't do it for you?
Well, I mean it might just be like my stomach kind of thing. But in the Mammoth Bar, they offer a buffalo cheese curd and that's just like super not for me. So it's I mean, I'm.
Sure I like the buffalo cheese curd.
No, it's just like they taste amazing. But then if you're trying to have that on a hot day and then go out and play golf, it's just like, I mean, it's Wisconsin in general, like you just got to get used to the cheese kind of thing, but the buffalo in particular are delicious. Just kind of make sure you're prepared and ready for it.
I will I will say I think the Sandbox Twilight Round late nights, it's an incredible scene out there, it just ain't it's not for me anymore. It's gotten too slow.
It is so packed now yeah, yeah.
It just has gotten and for me at that point, I'm just like, I'm tired from the day and one thing I'm not interested in is really slow golf. I'd rather just be like chilling at that point, and I'd rather like, for the amount of time I'm gonna invest I'd rather go I I don't know if they still do it. I'd rather go play the six hole Sand Valley loop than like play an insanely slow round of the Sandbox. That would be I'm just gonna this is
my This is my personal opinion. I also think, though, if you're playing an eight s and it's like all your boys and you're like, that can be an amazing experience too, So I get it. For me personally, it's not my jam. I'd rather just like hang out and talk or go play like six holes at the sandbo or at the sand Valley because they have a nice little sick hole looper they at least used to that's like incredible, like and there's nobody out there and I can just I can hit all the shots, I you know,
So anyways, that's me. That's my stay away. A couple other things that I would recommend as someone who's spent like an exorbitant amount of time there, I would recommend if you have free time, if say you're staying off site and you have like one of the weird tea times that's a little bit later, which a lot of people do, and it's not like I would say, there's a lot of things you can do there that make it worthwhile to do that. A couple of things I've
done that I would recommend swimming. They have some lakes go swimming. It's honestly delightful. Another thing, the trails are pretty cool. As someone who's like hoofed it out to drone there so many times in my life I've taken a lot of those trails. They're pretty cool. And they do these bikes on trails. So like recommendation, like if it's full, I know there's like a lot of angst about like it fills up. It's a lottery system. I
don't think it's the end of the world. If you stay off site and you book these non peaked times because there is stuff to do, grass court, tennis awesome. This is not like there is a world if you did the house rental where this is not a crazy thing to do with your family. It's not crazy like it's remote, like you could tone down your golf and there are activities. The biking, the swimming, the tennis are
all pretty awesome. And I think that's one of the things that's unique about about Sand Valley in comparison to Abandon is that like there is some family activities that is going to make it, like I think probably in ten years, a pretty interesting family destination. And the lakes are like fun to go in.
Yeah, I think they just kind of built the new one over by the Commons and the lake also over by Sand Valley. They're amazing freshwater lakes and definitely would recommend that. The biking is is fat tire biking, which I've never done it. Have you done it at Sand Valley? I mean it looks super fun, so it's a very different kind of experience.
Yeah, that's where like if you don't have like it's it's not the end of the world. If you're only playing one round golf there because there is other stuff to do they have. They have a small gym too if you're into that, if you want to do that. But like, there's such good outdoor activities to do out there. The one other thing I'd love to hit on is
so getting there. People fly into O'Hare, people flying to Milwaukee, people find a Madison a couple of recommendations on the way up, Eagle Springs, a nine hole Mompa golf course. If you're coming from O'Hare, it's worth the stop on the way up. It's awesome, it's memorable. You will you'll never forget the first two holes. Laws Sonia obviously is at the top of my list of places to go in Wisconsin. And it's not like necessarily out of the way,
it's not super convenient. And then I would just say, if you if you're flying and you can fly direct into Madison, that's the ideal way to get to get up there. And so I would you know, that would be the ideal. I think most people will fly into O'Hare. Minneapolis is another option to fly into, but those would be my res for getting up there. Will thank you for writing this guide up people can read it on the website. Any parting thoughts before you get out of here on Sand Valley.
No, I think you hit it on the head. I think I should mention that I am currently in Green Lake, Wisconsin, next to las Sonia, and we talked to people on the putting Green that are driving to Sand Valley this afternoon, so they stopped at Lawsonia on the way, So I would just echo that. I think stopping at Eagle Springs and or laws Sonia, or if you want to tag on, like you could do a day in Madison. It's a wonderful college town.
You could pair it go on the lake.
Yeah, oh, that's a terrific town. You could even like get over to the New Glares Brewery which is out that way. I mean, there's a lot to do in Wisconsin if you really want to make a big trip out of it, and then you can always pair it with Aaron Hills or Whistling if you want to kind of get out of the way. But I think doing non golf activities mixed in just makes this trip even that much better.
You hit on Madison. I used to work. I had one of my jobs before this. I with like intertwined in restaurant and hospitality scenes. And one of the places I would go occasionally for work trips is Madison. Wonderful place to spend a.
Night in the summer, especially like they have those like concrete stairs where you can just grab a beer. It is unbelievable over there.
Yeah, I would uh, great bars, great great food. Also like good concert good concerts come there. Like don't sleep on, like planning the stop on the way up if you and like say you can't get accommodations a certain way, don't sleep on, like look at the show list if you're into music. And because Madison gets like legit bands that come through there, so uh yeah. And if you if it's the fall, obviously you get the school in session and there's even more stuff going on.
It's right.
You can watch the batteries beat up on the Alina.
Oh get out of here. We're we're we're a dominant force. And badgers aren't beating up on the line I anymore. Those days are gone. We got Burt, you know you got to Yeah, we got we got their former coach. Uh. You know, the stories of Bert and Madison are amusing if you if you find the right, people. But uh but yeah, the days of Wisconsin beating up on on on Illinois might be by gone.
That's okay. We there's still still worth a stop in Madison. And uh hell if you could even just drop the kids off at Wisconsin Dell's if you really want to and then go on a golf trip. So if there's if the water parks scene is what they're after, then there's a right option for you.
That's right, the Dell's. All right, Thanks Will, we'll talk dude, and thanks for all your work with the with the events and and making those run uh uh smoothly and uh and and shown everybody an awesome time. Absolutely, all right, let's talk about our partner viewery. Uh. I gotta say personal personal testimony right here. I'm about to be on a on a heavy red eye kick and I took my first Red Eye of this run the other day, and I wore the viewery dream Nick Jogger. I've I'm
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a lovely day in Pinehurst. I'm not sure it could be wrong, but I'm excited to bring in our resident expert, our head of Marketing, Abby Libenthal, who happens to live in the Pinehurst area. So this is a great honor to talk about somebody's hometown. I guess do you call it your hometown when you live there but you're not from there? These are all questions that we can figure out. Abby. Welcome on the Friday Golf Podcast for the first time.
Thank you, first time, longtime fan, and I think partially would be upset with you saying it's a lovely day in Pinehurst.
It's a beautiful day in Pinehurst.
Beautiful, Yeah, beautiful day. Do you have any clarification on the hometown versus yeah, where you live.
I don't tell people that my hometown is Pinehurst. I tell them it's like where I reside.
Now, okay, Yeah, if you went off pro golfers, they you know, the tournament's list hometowns, and it's generally where they live.
Now, a lot of sea Island.
Of Jupiter, Scotts Sale. There's not a lot of diversity in the hometown on the PGA tour. Why yess Why you know Leishman always stuck out with Virginia Beach. You know, there's always a you know, a nice little nugget in there. Or Mett McCarty's a Chicago guy. He lives in Chicago.
That's good. We need some more diversity.
Let's talk about Pinehurst. So you put together a guide here on Pinehurst. I think everybody knows about Pinehurst, so we don't. I don't think we need to like break ground. In terms of Pinehurst, I think one of the unique things with this this destination versus a broad destinations. You know, obviously American destinations you get in the Sand Valleys, the Pinehurst abandoned the access the way I understand that the
access to Pinehurst is really controlled by staying there. Correct, Yes, how can you play if you don't stay at the resort?
You can call I believe, like a select number of days in advance for each of the courses. You know, they kind of tear their golf courses two, four, eight, ten, and then everything else. And I even think the Cradle you can call like twenty four hours in advance to book a tea time. But otherwise, yeah, they you know, they are really pushing for people to actually stay at the resort to secure those tea times. And if you're making a trip, you kind of want to know you're going to be able.
To play those courses.
So that's kind of the biggest difference, I would say, within like the last five years of visiting the area.
Yeah, I think I think that's and it's different from like Sand Valley. You can get on in the afternoon even if you're staying offsite abandoned. Similarly, you can stay off site and get on the t sheet still. But here, you know, if you want to play those courses you don't like by I guess my only recommendation is if you're going for a significant period of time and maybe leave it an afternoon free and try and get out
then and you can play one of them. In terms of the Pinehurst golf courses, we'll just touch on them quickly. You know you recommended a few in your guide. You have number one, number number three, I mean number two, number three, number four, number eight, number ten, Yes, number two obviously Championship course. Number four is the golf course that Gil Han's renovated. Number ten is the brand new
Tom Doak course. Two courses that haven't really been covered much by this podcast, or I would say in the golf architecture community, are number three and number eight. Number three's one that I haven't played that I would really like to play. Tell us a little bit about number three.
Oh yeah, so three is shorter. I think it maxes out at like maybe fifty six hundred yards. I'd have to double check. But the greens are really small and they're really challenging. They're like incredibly undulating.
There was.
Last summer, I was practicing a lot more to try and play in a mid am qualifier, and so somebody recommended to me, like, go over to three and play as much of it as you can, because your approach game is going to get a lot better.
So it's a really fun course.
And it is kind of a nice equalizer if you're playing with maybe you have some women in your group, maybe you have some guys in your group that are really long hitters. It kind of like balances it out because everybody's kind of like smushed together on the tea boxes and it just makes for a really fun round.
So I really like three. You can just get around it quick too.
I think like people go nuts on golf trips. They play a lot of golf, yeah, and I think what happens oftentimes is that they get fatigued from playing so much golf, and then you kind of can ruin some of the later days in your golf trip. To be that golf course seems like a an ideal thirty six hole day golf course to put in there in the afternoon after playing one of the big golf courses.
Yeah, absolutely, And then I really like eight. I used to not like eight. I it was a it's a bigger walk and a lot of it was tree lined, especially on the back nine, the final stretch of like fifteen to eighteen.
I didn't love it.
But they redid the greens a few years ago and took down a bunch of trees and it's just like it's a much more fun finish. You can look around and like see everybody else playing golf, and the holes are much more open. So it used to not be one of my favorites, but now it is. I think it's a fazzio. And you know, Pinehurst does add that a lot. If you're looking to book like four rounds
on your trip, it's a good addition. And the nice thing about it is they just added a bunch of cottages, so for people who like don't want to stay in a hotel, you can get all your buddies in one of the cottages and they're on hoo eight and number eight.
That is delightful. I do think that's like one of the things that the Sand Valleys of the world, the bandon the and really the destination clubs have done so well is the idea of the cabin and you you know, you go to dinner, but then you have this great place to just hang out with your friends for you know, a night cap, or you know, it's the morning and you have a little time and you kill it in the living room. I do think that the cabin experience
when you're on a trip is delightful. Yeah, you talked about the packages. Like the way I've generally seen it done is like two four ten eight or two four eight or you know two four ten is are the popular ones. Is that pretty much the only way to get number two access at this point is through the pages.
That's how I see it.
Yeah, it is really hard, and if you do get on, you may be starting on number ten, like whole ten of number two, and then you're finishing on nine. That's the way that they try to get more rounds out there. So if you like really just want to guarantee playing number two and starting on number one, you're gonna you probably have to stay the on site.
I mean, they're they're far worse things. I do think, like in terms of like how I would rank the golf courses in the area, I think it's kind of pine urse number two and then you can put a bunch of courses in a second bucket, and we'll get into some of the ones in Southern Pines, which include Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines, and then I think I would put probably number ten in that bucket. I am not the biggest fan of number four. I like it.
I think, you know, well, has it reopened from the the closure and you know, figure out the grass. I think it's it's a good golf course. But one of the things I take away from that project having been out there is like just how much work goes into undoing an old golf course to redo it. And I think, like, it's not my favorite, but some people like four and
more than number two. So in terms of the way I would think about, like if I was going to go there for four or five days, I'd probably want to hit at least two of the Pinehurst golf courses in a trip like that. You made an interesting recommendation to me. I was going last fall for Tom Doks Renaissance Cup, and I had a choice of where to stay at Pinehurst between the Carolina, the Holly and the Manor, and I was surprised at what you what you suggested,
But then pleasantly surprised when I got there. What what what is your preferred place of occupancy of the Pinehurst Resort?
Did I tell you the Manor?
Yes, yes, so, yeah, I really like the Manor. Pinehurst Resort required it a few years ago, and it sits right next to the Pinehurst Brewery. And then in addition, within the Manor is the North and South Bar, which is a whiskey bar. It's you know, you're not at the Carolina, which is the Marquis the Queen of the South as they like to call it hotel, But the Manor it's a little smaller, it's quaint. They have like a little library down there, and you can still walk
into the village. You can still walk, obviously walk to the brewery. It's very central still, but it's just like just off the path.
Yeah. I the Carolina doesn't really do it for me, right, you know, I I don't know, I don't know why. I just I'm not I'm not like a huge fan of the Carolina. I found the Manor to be much more my kind of speed. It was a little bit quieter, less going on, honestly, sometimes for me, like I prefer
less service than more service. And that was something that like, I know, like everybody's all about, but like to me, the manner was just like kind of like very chill, right and laid back, and that was it kind of I really liked it. And as you said, the location, I think something that like I know that some of these packages come with food, Like I mean, the job of a resort, if you're a running resort, what you're thinking about is like how do we maximize how do
we get every dollar of somebody's spend. Sure, what I would say as someone who has frequented the area, and I think you would probably agree with this statement, and and I'd lean on you for specifics. But to me, if I go to if I go to Pinehurst, the Pinehurst area where I want to hang out at night is nowhere near Pinehurst, and I want to be in the Southern Pines area. Would you agree with that?
Yes?
I So what I will say is that I think it's pretty awesome that you can go to Pinehurst Resort. And what makes it unique compared to all the other resorts in America is you can walk into a village where like people live and like breathe and love golf, So you can spend time in the village and still like maybe not go to a resort. I recommended Lisy in the guide, and Lisa's this Italian restaurant that is
just like it's so good. It's a gem for the middle, you know, a landlocked North Carolina and has a great bar. But that's really the only one of the only places
I'll actually eat in the village. I live closer to Southern Pines and that's where I spend most of my time off of the golf course, and a lot has popped up there in the last few years because there's a big military presence in Southern Pines, so there's a ton of families that live in the area and just like a lot of like business growth, so plenty of good spots in Southern Pines.
Yeah. I you know, my wife and I like can contemplated moving there years ago. We like looked around, we stayed there, and we really liked it. I think this is like a big miss of people is that they go to Pinehurst and they just stay at the resort. I think going to like Southern Pines for food, beverage, coffee in the morning is like an excellent move and it you know, as somebody, I probably spend a little
bit more time at resorts. Albeit this year I haven't really spent any time at resorts, but I spend more time at resorts than most of the common person. I feel like sometimes at golf resorts, I get like kind of resorted out. It's there's just something about being I just I like to get to where like normal people are. And to me, this is the cheat code of Pinehurst is if I were building a trip to go to Pinehurst, I would do the minimum trip to there to get
to play number two. And if I had the ability to play a few more days, then I would probably go rent a airbnb in Southern Pines. And albeit I think this is probably going to change with Marine and Lawn coming into Southern Pines and doing the Mid Pines there. That was the news a couple of weeks ago that they're going to rehab a lot of the lodging around
Mid Pines and Pine Needles. But while it's set up the way it is, I think the ideal trip there is a couple of days at Pinehurst to play number two, maybe play you know, number ten in another course you can pick your poison, then hop over to Southern Pines to Airbnb there and enjoy kind of small town North Carolina living at its finest. I think that like because of obviously the golf tourism, Southern Pines punches way above it's wait in terms of food and culture in that area.
Yeah. Absolutely, And there's plenty of places to stay. You know, you can find Airbnbs right on that main broad street, or you can stay somewhere closer to Pine Needles, Mid Pines, Southern Pines.
It's all like everything.
You know, even if you drive between Southern Pines and Pine heresay ten minute drive, like nothing's far, and then once you're in Southern Pines, everything's like six minutes away. I would say, So you can't really go wrong with the accommodations there. And then yeah, I'm super interested to keep track of the marine and lawn development.
It'll it'll just be fascinating.
And so we stayed there for the US Open last year. Yeah, and it was like, after spending like a week there, it's just like, God, this place has so much potential. All three of those golf courses, Southern Pines, Pine Needles, and Mid Pines are like terrific golf course wonderful golf courses, and I think the the accommodations there have like a lot of room to grow, but it does offer I
would say, a much quieter experience to Pinehurst. Yeah, kind of a welcome, like much more like quaint experience, like the if you could trast the mid Pines or the Pine Needles Bar to you know, the Deuce, It's like you couldn't be more diametrically different. Yeah.
Yeah, you're going to find like four old guys sitting in the Pine Needles Bar just like who've been going there every night for the last thirty years.
So just keep an eye out.
It's a great bar too. It's got the like the sub like the low the low bar with like the cozy arm arm chairs. Elite golf bar.
I have to say, yeah, it's great. You like walk down the little pit and there you are.
Yeah.
I love those bars that are like sunken down it kind of it's uh, it's definitely like a by gone design style for a bar, but one that I you know, it's very easy to spend a lot of time at. Yes, in terms of uh, what are your favorite I guess you know, we just hit on those three golf courses. But what are your favorite courses outside of like the main you know, known golf courses in Pinehurst, because I know there are other ones there.
I mean, I mean, granted, these are all private courses, so some of them are like going to be harder to access. But I really do love Dormy Club. It's a really fun place to play. They've kind of changed their model a bit too, where you have to stay and play with a member on site, but you know, it's definitely, you know, outside of the Pinehurst area, so you do feel like.
You're kind of in the middle of nowhere.
And it goes back to you know that stay and play of like a tree farm or those other locations where it's there's not many rounds out there every day, but it is really fun. And then CCNC Country Club of North Carolina is really great. They hosted the Junior Am not too long ago on their Dogwood course. It's another good place. And then I play a lot out of Forest Creek, which has two Tom Fazio courses, But I'm not sure about many other like public access courses aside from Tobacco.
I think, like the thing I would say about public access there is you know, most of those golf courses are built like one of the just key ingredients from for the jump of golf is land and the topography, the natural elements of golf there, you know, plus the sand makes it makes a lot of those golf courses that are not the big ones really fun to play because they have the elements of you know, hey, this isn't maybe the most in vogue architect or the most
you know, well thought of golf course, but this is worthwhile because you know, you're playing golf on on nice land with well well draining soils. Where where do you fall on tobacco road? We've ever talked about.
This, I know, so funny quick story. I took my dad out there like three years ago for his sixtieth birthday, and you know, we finished first my husband and I and his friends, and then behind us is our dad and my dad and he's and I'm like, what'd you think? Because like it's so big and sprawling and like it's wild out there. He goes fucking hated this golf course.
I was just like, okay, got it.
So I naturally bought him like the tied eye t shirt with strands on the front. And that's his gift every year, So some sort of tobacco road gift. I it's like so gimmicky, right, Like you're just playing like Target Jurassic Park golf out there. It's definitely like a site to behold, but it's not my favorite. It's kind of really expensive.
So that's one of the crazier things. I went there like eight years ago, and I think at that time the peak rate was probably about one hundred and fifty dollars or so, and I think now it doesn't it push up into the three hundred, Yeah, And I think that's like where you know, I I thought playing it, I thought there's some really neat stuff out there.
It's visually like really fun to explore and like run around.
There's some really good golf holes out there too, But for the price. At this point, I you know, it becomes like like I think it's a place, it's one of the more unique golf courses you're going to see. It's a you know, and obviously there's there's a lot of love for Mike Strands in the world of golf.
I might not be the head of the Mic Strands Society whenever it comes up, but but I used to you know, I used to say, yeah, this is absolutely a must play, must see, but now like with where the price is going, it just you know, to me it I don't know, I you know, I'd rather go play Piners number ten for that pure and play it a bunch. It's more walkable one. I think that's one of the things is walking up Tobacco Road not really
a fun thing to do. That being said, it is like I think like the thing that people could take away is like it is a one of one golf course and it's you know, if you have the means and that, but have the means to you know, do a bunch of golf courses down there that are three hundred bucks or plus, Like, yeah, do that. But I think like you get a lot more value out of the Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines than you do going to Tobacco Road.
And that's like the big thing about the Pinehurst area there. You know, you're going to do more than one trip there if you you know, really love golf and maybe you really enjoyed playing that type of like topography and the rolling terrains and the sand, like you're probably going to go back, so like maybe it's just for the second trip.
It's true. I do like that is the unique thing about Pinehurst. It does feel like a place that you can go multiple times, more so than other ones. I think Sand Valley now with like it's it's proximity to the Midwest, is probably one that people feel that way. But I do think that's where Pinehurst. You are you're really into.
Food, Yes, I love eating.
I mean it's delightful. Who doesn't love livations, you know, and food, food and drink. What's the what's the place that you you unequivocally say you can't miss there?
So in Pinehurst, I would say Lisa, like, it's a great meal, the atmosphere's fun. They've got the patio, the indoor space is fine. They've got the bar. In Southern Pines, I really like one American Fusion. It's they have a good outdoor patio and the menu is pretty unique for the.
Area out there. We did go there.
Yes, they have a really good cocktail list as well. It's just like good variety. It's different food. It's you know, when like you were saying before, you know, when you eat resort food, you're having like meat and potatoes or like salmon and potatoes.
Every single meal.
Is that Cisco truck Jackson. You know, it's like the not Cisco or fine technology you've provided provider partner, the food company. It's like the same one that was that that brought you all your meat to your door when you're in college, right, right.
So you want to switch it up. I do like one five American Fusion. There's Chef Warren's is really good too. It's a French, a French restaurant that's that's really solid and just again like unique dishes. I don't know how much PJ is going to eat at either of those restaurants. Probably not much, but uh but maybe we'll convince him when he makes his next visit to the area.
I'm going to offer one stay away. Yeah, this is just a personal, experienced stay away. Don't go to the Beltree tavern. Oh that's my stay away. Yeah, don't go there. Underrated low key great, low key option. Oh sure for people that enjoy like a nice porch and go to Southern Pine's brewery, order order some uber eats yep, and just sit there enjoy some beers. I feel like I like I love the like the patio. They have that
just it kind of sits up. You get a nice spreeze and you just order your food there and you can just enjoy enjoy that.
Yeah, get soapies for pizza. Just bring the pizzas over it an easy meal. It's good people watching too, because across the street there's like a there's a few restaurants and you just like watch people walking around.
What's the pixel click for coffee.
So in Southern Pines, I really like a new place called Mazonet. They have it just you know, it's a classic coffee shop, but they do have some food. And if you don't need food and more, Diego is this like Colombian coffee shop that's really solid and they make fresh croissants every morning there.
It's very good.
I went to Mason that you recommended that for me. Also, if you have your kids, they have kids.
Toye yes, a lot of kids there.
I would point out. I was, I was there working, I have a young kid, and I was looking around us like I could conceivably drop my kid here and get some work done. Because of the kids toys. I think kids toys in coffee shops are like they're brilliant it's the only way you're going to get a pair, aren't with young kids into to sit at a coffee shop?
Yeah, and they do. They're there all day. So it's a good spot though. And it's just easy to walk up and down that main street in Southern Pines and like pop in and out of shops, you know, like a really good bookstore. There is even a Pinehurst like shop there too, So if you're like, well, I got to get the merch like, you can still do that. It's just like a really nice place to walk around and kind of see what the community is actually like.
I uh, yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan of Southern Pines. Yeah. But other other other tip from me, just don't speed in More County. Once you get close to More County, it's not worth it. They're gonna they're gonna say that you have to come back for court in person, and the only way to get out of it is higher local attorney. It's gonna cost you an arm and a leg. It's gonna be the most expensive, uh speeding ticket, you know, nominal normal speeding ticket that
you can find. That's just a personal anecdote. Don't when you get close to more County do not whatsoever.
Well, and they trick you.
It goes from like sixty five to fifty five real fast.
You come over the hill. That's the right way. They got me so dangerous. Just yeah, just be careful with that. It's it's a pain in the ass. Speaking from a personal experience, any parting Pineher's advice.
Hmmm, you know, you know, but don't assume that you can get an uber from Pinehurst back to the Raleigh Airport. You really can't. So run a car if you're staying at the resort. They have shuttles that will take you to and from the Raleigh Airport. I just had a friend visit and she had like multiple ubers cancel on her. You can't get uber here in Pinehurst.
You know.
The last time I did this, the guy that was driving me was pitching me on trying to He wanted me to buy his cab business, getting into the cabusiness.
Yeah no thanks, yeah, so just kidding. I mean, it's a great it's a great place to visit. One thing we didn't talk about too is like when I would say like peak, yeah, peak time to visit Pinehurst, I would say, like march to the end of May is really awesome. June you were there for the US Open. It's really hot and really humid.
I didn't think I walked away from that week being okay.
Okay, so like you would probably go through June wasn't terrible.
Yeah, it gets really yeah, it gets really gross in July and August. I think they might even have like off peak pricing during that time. And and then the fall is beautiful.
It's so nice.
November yeah, incredible. Yeah.
Sometimes we played on like on Christmas.
So when what's like January? People always wonder about January through March.
Yeah, so, I mean last year we did get a little bit of snow. It lasts like a day. But like if you're trip is book during that time, it's just not ideal. It's you know, the grass is dormant, which is like really fun to play on and like visually really cool. I would say it's really hit or miss in January and February March, you can get away with it.
I went one time in February or March. It was when I lived in Chicago. I was kind of naive.
We thought it was going to be nice and warm Chicago.
Yeah, and I was like God, it's not very pleasant down here right now.
No, No, it's still like it's not it's not the South. It's not like Florida.
Rally's definitely the way way to go getting in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the drive from Charlotte. The first time I the first course I played in Pineer, Syria was Dormy actually when it was public and it was my buddy got married in Charlotte and I drove. I was in my mid twenties. I drove all the way out there and back and that that was not a fun drive from Charlotte. If you can do the Raleigh Airport, it's pretty pretty easy drive from there. Yeah.
So no, I mean we obviously love it.
We lived there for the last three years, and I just think like Moore continues to develop in the area, but ultimately like it really is all centered in golf in both communities, which works well for me.
Yeah. All right, Well, thanks for coming on. You could read Abby's full guide. She's got a lot of recommendations on the website, lots of rex.
It was.
It was great having somebody that actually like lives somewhere do the guide. I don't know, that's like my favorite thing when I go travel somewhere as I usually like to talk to somebody that lives there and to find stuff. And this was great. So thanks Abby, and we'll have you on again sometimes, I hope.
So thanks guys.
We'll see what's the next what's the next guide?
I don't know.
You may be the only person to spend a cabot.
Yeah, I could do cabot. So let's go to Halifax.
It's it's so hard to get to Yeah, it's a topic for another day. Like when I talk to people about getting there, it's like I'll just go to Edinburgh, correct stud Correct? All right? Thanks Avy, Thanks guys, all right, big thanks to all my guests for joining me on this podcast. Check out Frida Egg Guides at the Friday dot com. Just peruse the website. It would be my piece of advice. There's a lot of stuff up there. And big thanks to PJ Clark for editing and producing
this podcast. This one was kind of a beast put together, so big thanks to PJ. We'll be back next week with our preview Five Things about the Ryder Cup with guests not guest now Frida Egg team member Kevin Bean Welkenberg We're super excited to add kvv to the team. He will be a fairly regular guest of this podcast We've got and also another reason go check out the
website more writing on the website. He will be a regular contributor to our newsletter, subscribe to that and can't wait to see the stuff that KVB puts together for the Ryder Cup, which is right around the corner at Bethpage Black. So we'll have five things about the Ryder Cup coming live on Sunday, as we usually do for majors, So check that out there, and big thanks to everybody for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.