Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. Today's episode is powered by tdam or Trade. Every stroke counts on the scorecard and every penny counts in the market. That's why tedam or Trade is committed to straightforward pricing with no surprises, so you're free to swing with confidence. Visit tedomritrade dot com, slash Friday Egg member SIPC. It's US Open weekend. We welcome on US Open champion two
thousand and six US Open Champion Jeff Ogilvy. Jeff comes on to talk about the US Open, what is like to play in it, a little bit about his win at Wingfoot and as well as other US Opens, and then Pebble Beach. So, without further ado, here's Jeff Ogilvy and enjoy today's podcast. I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in.
A Friday Egg Frida egg thedded Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg egg Lie.
I'm about ready to run off of the course. If you were going to do a rota, say five courses for the US Open, what would they be.
Uh Oakmont finalst Number two, Shinnacock Pebble have many that four it's for one more. I mean I like West Coast opens. I don't like Olympic though. I don't think that belongs in that. I mean, Olympics amazing, but I don't think it belongs in that. If it's just gonna be fun, I don't know. Riv Maybe Riviera being incredibly wis open. La North will be fun too. I think v would be a great one.
Actually, I'm excited for La North. I'm a little worried about scores. People getting crazy about scores there.
It's going to be wide, but the greens are pretty crazy there. Yeah, I'm all worried about logistics. I mean, how car is going to get in and out and like where people are going to stay in, Like that's like the busiest traffic area in the whole world. That's going to be a logistically interesting you know, who's going to rent the Playboy mention for the week?
Monkeys are still, the animals are still. Do you know those apartments like that overlook it they are like empty? Oh really, I guess that like oil money owns them and they're like perfectly content just hemorrhaging money. Oh yeah, it's like there's just all of them are empty.
Because that's such a good place. Yeah, the West Coast opens are good because of the weather's more predictable, right, you just you can get foggy at Pebble, right, but like l a weather in summer, like the Tory Open was the best West weather we've had by far, and actually, weirdly enough, the Chambers was the best one we've had too, Like the East coast ones of storms and sometimes you get unpredictable rain and it's really really hot. But yeah,
what I say, Oakmont, Pinehurst, Pebble, China, wing Foot. There you go, We've got to put wingfo. It's a perfect venue. Actually, it's a great place, not just because of me, but it's a great club.
What what's the most underrated thing about winning a years helping?
The most underrated thing? They're all rated pretty high. I think, I don't know. It's been good.
I guess like, what's the thing that you didn't know that like when when you want it that now you look back and you're like, whoa, that was cool.
The thing that blew me away the most is that, even to this day, I get new people telling me that they were there that's or they marshaled the fourth hole the thirst day that week, or like, how many people are like actually involved in watch interested in the US Open is more than any other tournament that I've ever seen or heard about. I mean, everybody's seen. This is such a tradition in the US to watch the
US Open on Sunday others day. It's just what people do, right, And they might not watch golf all year, but that's their day to watch golf. And to this day I meet people who talk about that Sunday for whatever reason. It was kind of remember one because of what Phil did and stuff too, so it kind of sticks out in people's memories a little bit to I think, just how many people watch it, it's just amazing for me.
You had Phil and you had Manti. Yeah, just the scoring in general. The massacre at wing Foot.
Yeah, it was nuts. It was. It actually didn't obviously because I was playing well. It didn't seem everyone was complaining about how hard it was, and I didn't think it was that hard. I mean, obviously our scores were high. We were I don't know if anyone was ever under par. Maybe after day one there was someone on a part, but I want it five five over. I think five over. But I never thought it was that hard, and people complaining that the greens were a bit ropy in the
afternoons and stuff. But obviously I was playing well because I thought that it was playing perfectly. It was tough.
It's you know, isn't that how it is? Though? If you're playing well, like you're probably not gonna be complaining.
Yeah, I guess. I mean every other US Open I complained pretty much, not complained. But they're just so hard and it feels unfair hard sometimes, you know, and it's just you just get You can put in like nine great holes and you're just grinding and you're trying so hard, and every hole is the hardest hole you've ever played. You're making pars and you're making pars, and you're making pars and you get one kind of weird bounce into
a bad lay over the green. You make a double and you're just all the air comes out of your sales because you've just put so much effort in keeping near parer. As soon as you make it, you know you're never getting back to me a power again. Right. It's just such a depressive, deflating kind of experience. You can have a US Open that they could be hard to play.
And my buddy that played is a lot of am USGA stuff. We were playing in the mid amf're and he was like, just remember par. When you're making a lot of pars, you're doing really good. Like, especially with that being a match play thing, you know, like if you make if you just keep making lots of pars, you'll be fine. Like you can you know, you can avoid, you know, but if you make tons of pars, you're fine. And I feel like that's the way with the US
Open too. I was, I was out watching today and I was, I think there's a lot of birdies at pebble, and Rory talked about it a little bit. There's a ton of birdies at pebble because you get wedges if you hit good shots. And but the flip side of it is that pebble might be like laden with the most like you can make double or triple or quad anywhere.
It seems like you can make a double or triple so fast and even with a wedge in your hand if you just get a little too aggressive. The grains are very kind of volcano. You know, they're all high with the bunkers. Bunkers on the outside are really high with steep slopes down onto the greens. And so if you're landing it over any of these bunkers, you hit these downslopes. And if you take on too much, you hit a big downslope, you get one big bounce over
the back into some crazy rough they've got that. Just ringing the bunkers is like nutty thick. You can and you get over the green, and then you get over the green on half the greens at Pebble you can't get the web the pitch on the green. This is no way. It's just going to go off the front. So it's a it's relatively doable if you hit every shot. Well, you know, not every US Open can be like that. Man, you can hit good shots at Oak Mautin get in
real trouble Pebble. Have you hit good shots, you're going to be all right, But as soon as you miss, you're gonna have stress. When it's set up like this anyway, it's.
How much people talk about how different it is from like the pro am, but like how what would you say, like a shot value? Would us open versus AT and T pro am set up.
Be well, the pebble the pro am. We don't play way off the back, I don't think. I mean there's us open TC here that I don't think. I think they only use every ten years here, So it's not as long. I mean, the ball isn't rolling on the fairways, so it maybe plays in some ways. It might play longer, but it plays so wide because the fairways are really wide here, normally like fifty sixty yards wide. I mean it's a public course. They play sixty thousand rounds a year.
They want to get everyone around as fast as they can, so the fairways are really wide, and the greens are very soft, and the pins are right in the middle of the prime because we've got ams out there and they want to they don't have the tough pins, they have the easy pins. So it's not it it's it's the same shots that you're being asked to hit because
the tough shot. The tough thing about people, I think is that the balls I wasn't You're always on a side slope the whole property like slopes towards the ocean, and you play one the balls below your feet. You know, you play two the balls below your feet, you play like three, four, five, not so much. Six the balls below your feet down slope. Eight the balls arguably on a downslope sometimes nine the balls really below your feet.
Ten the balls really below your feet, you know, And then you turn back around to come the other way, and the balls above your feet for the rest of the way. And it's so that stuff is the same when it's in the pro am. So the part of the trickiness of pebble is still there. But when the ball lands, it stops in the pro am, and the us over with the ball lands it doesn't stop, and that's why it gets so much harder.
Yeah. The other thing I think that's neat I tucked with Garrett, one of my who's our editor about it is that all the greens, it's kind of got that a little bit of a gusta thing that you talked a lot about where the greens orient the opposite way of the slopes and all the holes, and you know, it's different in the way Augusta is so varied, But like pebble's kind of like you get through one stretch, then you go to the other stretch where you're gonna be like the opposite.
Yeah, the holes along the on the way out. I suppose the holes like nine and ten. It's very obvious that you need to hit a draw into those greens, but the ball is so far below your feet and the ocean's out to the right. It's a pretty scary proposition to try to hit a draw, so it confuses you slope a lot. It's pretty untalked about. I think at Pebble and the US Open, it's just accentuated because it's firmer, so the fairways get pink narrowed way down to I mean, they're wider than some US Opens, I
would say here. I don't know if they've come out with any numbers, but they're probably thirty yards wide at Pebble. Maybe because of this, they play fifteen yards wide though, because the ball goes sideways when it lands a lot of holes. So it's just a great place to play golf, you know, it's it asks. There's some scary shots you're asked to hit, you know, like those Augusta style shots over fifteen and like kind of hero shots here. They're not quite as I guess famous, but I mean the
second jounter eight is a scary shot. The shot up the hill at six is a really scary shot. You know, it's a different style of thing of going over water, but you're hitting it up just a cliff. You know. Eight's an incredibly tough shot. The second shot to nine, and the second shot to ten, and the t shot on ten. I mean, they're outrageously difficult shots and like you really really just have to kind of sack up and hit it, you know what I mean, You just
have to. Like, it's just there's no there's no way of hitting a shot under the ninth or tenth graded people if you're not just super confident put a proper swing on it, because it's just not gonna happen.
Do you think there's more intimidation because it's like a cliff than a normal water hazard.
Yeah, I would think. I mean, it's so big the ocean, right, it's so beautiful and all you're looking at it all day, so it's got your attention. And I think the psychologists will tell us the ball goes where our attention is, right, and it's your attention. How do you not look at Carmel Bay when you're playing nine to ten? Right, it's the prettiest thing in the world. It's clearly more difficult being the ocean and the cliff than it would be just a pond or a lake or something.
It's really amazing, Like when you when you get up sex and then you see everything. It's like, no matter how many times you see it, it's still just amazing.
It's ridiculous. It's the mean. It's the best revealing golf is walking off the fourth tier pebble. Yeah, they play the first three holes you like, and you can kind of get a glimpse of what's going to go on on the third, but then you've kind of play the fourth T and it's you walk about one hundred yards and all of a sudden you go past the beach club and you just come out to this and for the next two hours you're just on the cliff looking
at the Pacific Ocean. It's outrageous, But that we walk off that fourth T is one of the best moments in golf.
I think that's a coolhule too. I think that's that.
Yeah, that's sweet. I mean it feels over bunket these days, but that's a great little hole, what a great little green.
I'd like to see him, go put it up one day, make it too eighty.
Yeah, because going for it's not to play even if you can get there, I don't think so if you give it a too eighty, they're not going to be able to help themselves, these guys. Yeah, and you can see five sold all day because they'll all miss the green left and no one will hit it up. Pitch it on the green and yeah it'll be Yeah. That's a that's a cool hole. That's a great hole. I mean, I mean, Pebble's got good holes, like people probably kind of there's some Cypress points not around, you know who
don't think Pebble's worthy of the same breath. But it's got a lot of really cool stuff about it.
I think it's I think it's completely different style course than Cypress, where where Pebbles like a a journey against like the wilderness, you know, and like you know, like it's a big.
Big course and.
It's much more like a it's like browny and where like Cypress is like kind of like it's like a romantic. Cypress is like a romantic place to play off and then you go to Pebble reminds me a lot of Yale which is like, you know the place where you're going and it's like an adventure, you know, like in nothing more to me than the sixth hole where you're like climbing up and it's like you're you're hitting it up a mountain. You can imagine doing that in nineteen twenty nine.
It's pretty brave. I mean that routing like six, seven, eight is incredibly It's an amazingly brave thing to do. And that long ago, with the equipment that they had to go up that hill, no one would go up six anymore. You'd play down at the bottom of the hill and you'd walk up and play another hole or something. You know, you wouldn't No one would do that now.
And seven's pretty audacious. Put a little hundred yard hole right there on the thing, I mean, what a wile too, Yeah, I mean it's what a spot there like that that section of course six through ten Green is that's a pretty stretch, but it's a pretty good stretch of golf.
Yeah, and then every bay sleeps on the uphill holes, but they're pretty cool.
I like them too. It's different. It's there. I mean, eleven is a pretty easy hole really in the US Open, Old thing. I mean, you can get it wrong because the green's is really small. But twelve is one of the hardest greens to hit in the world on a path three for green, it really isn't very slopy. It's actually one of the flatter ones of pebble. And it's that's a nightmare hole next one you can get wrong.
It seems so simple, but that green is savage. And fourteen, that green is you can make any number you want. You could be one hundred and ten for two from the green and you could you could make anything there. Fourteen it's better than it was when they fixed it, but it's still great. It's so small. You try to hit it onto a table top from one hundred and ten and from one hundred and ten it plays one hundred and thirty up the hill. And if you miss
at a yard left, it's really bad. If you miss a yard right, it can used to come all the way back off the green behind the front bunker. Crazy.
I saw a stat and twenty ten. If you miss the fairway on fourteen, only thirty four percent of players hit the green in rag.
That'd be right, because it's I mean, I don't know what it measures. Five point fifty or something. It's quite a long hole, but it effectively plays about one hundred yards longer than it is because third the second shot is up. I mean, I don't have the centig grade it's up, but it's up pretty steep for a really long way way up in the air.
That left ruff is an awful place.
I feel like, yeah, they're rough anywhere in the US Open, and it feels people's obviously a fertile place, like grows pretty good rough here.
So we talked, we talked about it was kind of fitting. We talked about Brooks the last last time we talked before the PGA and how like historically great like he is on the back nines and closing out stuff and then sure enough, like he goes out and wins. You kind of called it. You're like, it's going to be a high ball hitter.
Yeah.
So you know with Brooks, like what do you what do you think about in terms of how do you measure winning major championships versus PGA Tour event, Like you know the balance of winning a lot or winning the really big ones a lot?
Well, I mean, Brooks, you obviously want to win the majors of the pinnacle of the sport, and only the great players seem to win them more than once or twice, you know, I mean, it's only the truly greats to win multiples. I still think there's something impressive about the guys who play well every week, they play and win piles of tournaments forever, like they five six seven wins a year for fifteen twenty years. I think it would be fun to see him win some more regular events.
Not that would make him any better or worse and whatever. I just think it's those truly truly like forever greats, you know, the samson Needs and the Hogans and the Nelson's and the Nicholas's and the Tigers, and they've won every size of event and they win everywhere they go. You know, I think that's really impressive. Nothing against Brooks at all. And it's ridiculous what he's doing. I mean, he could maybe he wins them all late, you know,
maybe he just starts winning. It's baffling to me how he can look that good in like in the Majors, I mean, or he was only one shot away at the Masters too in the end, you know, like you can look that good in the big tournaments and in the regular tournament it's almost like it's not a big enough occasion for him or something, you know, or he's working on his game, or he's tuning up for the majors. I don't know, but it's different. It's different how he plays in majors to norms.
It's I don't know, there we had, Like you know, there are some basketball players like Robert Ory who'd always hit big shots, like you know, but like he wasn't like an all time great, you know, he just would hit big shots. But like you know, Robber Ory, you can't compare like a guy going out and winning four majors and you know, nine nine attempts to Robber Ory.
But like with Brooks, it's it's fat. It's so they the super Book, it was like, I think it's the longest bet they've ever like time wise, they've ever put out. And they put out Brooks seven and a half wins or seven and a half majors.
Seven and a half. What's the one that five.
Four four and it expires when he turns fifty.
Wow, you probably take the over at this point. You know, he's won four in two years, But I mean, who knows I mean you just don't know, right, how often do you see a guy have a run like this? And I mean two years ago you would have said Jordan's going to win fifteen, right, and the two years later, I'm not saying he's not going to win fifteen, but no one's saying that anymore. Right. It's hard to Rory too. Yeah,
time changes things, It's weird. I mean you would have thought it only might have won a few more than he did, you know, And then Tiger came along. You would have thought Phil would have won them earlier, or Westwood would have won something. It's a or sergeriy I wouldn't have taken so long, you know, or Adam Scott or Justin Rose. You know, so the hard ones to
win and you can. And who knows if there is a kid who's twenty one right now who's already better than Brooks, you know, or he just needs a couple of years under his belt like Brooks had, and then he goes and wins more and it gets harder and harder for every generation.
That's the interesting thing with Brooks too, is like he's twenty nine, Like it wasn't I guess, like Rory, we had this flurry when he was really young, and it's almost like he struggled. I wonder if like having it come a little bit later while still being young was almost like it is almost a blessing for.
I think Brooks is the roadmap he's taken to get here is interesting, and I think more like junior golfer zoo have aspirations or who are going to potentially be that good should look at it. Going to Europe first and playing like the challenge to like the smallest her in Europe just to get on the European terny. He played in Europe for three or four years just because I mean to learn how to play everywhere around the world. So he just came back a more complete golfer. And
the guys who went majors are complete players. You know. You have to have every shot, and you have to be good at every aspect, and you have to be good at the travel and learning a new course fast and dealing with adversity. And that's what happened when you play your first four or five years somewhere else, especially Europe, because you get to a different country every week and
there's different currencies and languages and foods. And maybe not the same conditioning you used to in America maybe, And he just I think he just became such a more well rounded player. So I just think the roadmap he took to get here prepared him better than anyone else's path.
You know, is that do you think you because you went and played Europe right after you turn pro for a while, Like, is that the hardest part about like early in your career, is like being a professional on the road?
Like it's yeah, I mean I was so enthusiastic at that point. I didn't find it hard. I just found it exciting. Right, I'm just traveling around the world. Who doesn't travel want and travel around the world when they're twenty one twenty two. Everybody kind of wants to write. And I was getting paid to do it, so it was I thought it was exciting. And I didn't do it as long as Brooks. Brooks was there for a long time, four or five years, I think. And you're
really total And Peter Euline did the same thing. They were kind of doing it at the same sort of time. And Peter's become a pretty well rounded good player too. You know, It's not that it's not great here but playing the PGA, trying to get on the PGI to a straight away would be like trying to like get a hit from a major league pitcher from little league. You know, like it's not that big a jump, but it's a pretty big jump and you can get beaten
over the head pretty quick. Saying it's not tough in Europe, but it's probably a little bit easier. There's a lot more toilets to choose from, and again, you get a different environment and you've maybe got fields you gradually can beat up on just a little bit quicker than you could beat up on the ones over here, and you just build confidence and skill, and yeah, it's pretty It's it's an interesting way he took because it's tight. It would be tough for an American kid to do that.
It's easy for an austrain kid to go to Europe first, right, because you have to go somewhere first, you do the stepping stone thing. It makes sense. But to leave your home country when you're a kid and go do that, it's pretty brave.
Yeah it is. Well, wasn't like he was a schmuck either. He was you know, like American, yeah, golfer.
He could have tried the route that most people tried, but was he either got really good advice or was just had a kind of it's a bit of wisdom at the time and thought, you know, this is the path for me, and it wow, I mean, look at it. He's he's the most rounded complete golfer we've almost ever seen, really the way he's playing at the moment.
The Q School also now still you can still go a Q school and be on the European Tour.
Yeah, they're still going to real Quy school.
Yeah, which is I think there's something cool about it, but I think.
We can still I think we should still have one too. But even if it wasn't twenty five cards, I just there was something really cool about, you know, zero to PGA Tour in one week, you know something about it.
It led to some guys that flamed out quick.
But yeah, yeah, but I mean really through history of at least through my era, of who I grew up with and who made it and who didn't, I can't think of many who should have made it who didn't know And then there's no shoot ups and you can't make predictions like that. But by the time everyone was thirty, the ones who you thought were going to make it. They all kind of found their way out there. Maybe
took them a couple more years than they wanted. But usually the ones who are supposed to get out there get out there. I mean some of like Jordan, for example, he missed it second stage and then six months later it was like number one in the world or something like. It was just it was inevitable that he was going to get on to it right. Second stage didn't matter. He just found a different way to get on. But you school was a good.
Thing usually, you know, you know, like certain guys like what are what are the things that like, you know, a guy is going to make it versus a guy that like me, they have comparable amateur but like you know, one guy is sure fire and one gay is maybe do.
You think this? I mean, these are intangibles, right, but you just I don't know the guy who makes that great up and down to stay one in front of the seventeenth hole somewhere, or like just they do that key stuff. I mean, there's plenty of goes to hit it well and part well and that it's part of that too. Like some guys just make golf look easy, right, just easier than ever it looks for everyone else. You know, Adam Scott at fourteen looked like he was gonna be
number on in the world. It just looked like it. You know, he just it was easier for him. But there's other guys you just see it in their eyes at the right moment. So you know, they finish off tournaments really well, or they compete really on the harder courses,
maybe better than the other courses. They handle situation like situations that not everyone handles well, intangible sort of stuff, but you can tell when you see someone who there's no again, there's no guarantees, but you can usually tell the ones who have got a little bit more something than the others. It was the game that he was at least I can in golf.
Most surprised that didn't get to where he say, you may we might have an injury to In.
My era, Joel Kraibell was an incredible player. He was kind of second ranked amateur around after Tiger. Right attack right Stanford went at the same time as Tiger lost to him in the semi finals. I think of his last us M, he looked the real deal. He was really special and me he won the Western End that I went to, like no one even got close to him, like it was. This guy's pretty amazing. I can't think
of many others though. He got injured when he when he was turning and got back injury and never really kind of made it back, so it didn't kind of work out for him. But I'm sure there's been a few. I mean, there's always a few that slipped through the cracks, right. They get hurt at the wrong time. I mean Patrick Cantley, he's kicking goals now, but he kind of got set back a little bit with a bad back at the wrong time. You know, you don't have a bad week.
I mean Jordan, as I said, speak missed second stage. Accu's cool. He nearly had to have a year up right when he was turning pro. So it's a tough deal to get onto her.
Yeah, they And now with this new schedule, it makes it like even more interesting how you would go about it as a college kid.
Like, you know, like there'd be two there's two real roots. You can do the Latin America Canada to a thing to try to get top five on them, to get on the web, and then the web you can try to get up or do you go to Europe and really back yourself and say I'm going to go to Europe or Asia and try to get top fifty in the world and start getting invites and go that way.
It's almost there's no easier way. I mean, each model would work for different people, but you might become a more rounded player if you went the Europe route, you know what I mean. You mean you might never get to top fifty in the world. I mean, that's quite hard to get to the top the world, and you might even not get on the European Tour. But that's really the only two methods is come up off the WAB or come through top fifty in the world. You know.
So yeah that like Kitty Yama guy, uh, Kurt Kittyama had no status and he got he went through European Tour. Q School American guy. He's won three times this.
Year in Europe. Well there you go. So he's on his wife, right, his ranking must be getting up there exactly.
It's like it's unbelievable, you know, he went through, but like think about how much his life changed. He probably was, you know, pondering what am I doing? What am I gonna do right two now he's won three times. Yeah, it's crazy on the second BIX Tour in the in the world.
Yeah, and in Europe. I mean you can see. I mean the Righter Cup proves it. I mean those guys can go like they can really play.
Do you think there what's the difference in the style of play between the two tours, Like, is there a noticeable difference between setup or golf courses or is it just the diversity of where you are?
Yeah, well the golf courses, I mean, America's had a pretty big influence at least on competitive golf around the world. The places that you play a similar style than you play on the PHA to it mostly but you do again, you're going to some pretty crazy places. So grass is different everywhere, mostly newer courses because they're the ones who have the money, the promoter, the owners and the promoters to kind of show off their golf course. That's kind
of half the reason golf tournaments are on. Sometimes you're just go to so many different places, probably and the conditioning is probably a little bit more inconsistent. You can you still have some you don't get bad green weeks on the PHA two very often, or bad fairways or weird way they might create some but it's generally pretty perfect. Every week you're less so right because you're going to
some non golf countries and you're going to Germany. I mean, they've had some good golfers, but they don't really have many golfers there, so they don't really have to spend the money on their golf courses. And you get a Russia or they don't know, are got any golf courses, and so in Turkey they're playing in Turkey now, Saudi
Arabia now like Dubai Kenya, they play everywhere. Right, So you're and travel always makes I don't know, adds a bit of wisdom to people or like roundedness or common sense or something right, because you just see every different sort of condition and every sort of different level of frustration that you just get better at dealing with stuff. And I think that aspect is the most important thing
about that tour. I mean, you probably get it to their Latin America tour as well, and you're going to play Canada and driving around in a car like some of those guys do or something, and that would be like really great too, I think. But zero college to the PGA tours. I mean, I know they're trying to kind of create a faster route from college to PGA Tour, but that's that's a road that's not many guys are ready for. That's a fast that's a fast track. I wouldn't have been close to ready. Yeah.
Yeah. So getting back to the US Open, so we saw backpage like you can't he predicted a little bit it was gonna be a high ball hitter if we saw.
DJ DJ and Brooks one of the two picks. Yeah.
And then and then Rory, who had a dismal first twenty seven holes, managed you know, last forty five years better than everybody, you know, worked his way up to t T eighth. So you know, with that, that golf course like clearly set up for that type of player. Like, if you wanted to create, you know, set up a golf course for where any style player in the field could win, how would you set it up?
Well, you do, Pebble would be pretty close this week, everyone's got a chance. I think it's it's not long. It's long for a normal golf course sakes, but it's not long for you. It's open, and it doesn't see Beth Page is long, but it plays way longer because you go up to all the greens and it's all carried. You can't run it on any of the greens pebble. You could probably play it along the ground almost some
of it, so it'll certainly suit. I mean, a longer hitter always has an advantage, but it's nullified here a little bit. They have the advantage of being able to hit less club onto the fairways. That's always going to be an advantage of three wood instead of driver and stuff like that. But it's such an experience strategic kind
of test. It's more about that kind of that kind of canny golf skill, you know, missing it around the greens in the right place and having all the little kind of shots around the greens and being absolutely impeccable from inside ten feet because you just can't have short power parts of pebble. It's really difficult. They're so slopey, and this West Coast grass this power when it gets firm, like when the usg get it firm, which Thursday is
not going to be like that by Sunday. Well, they get very difficult to get your speed right on such slopes. So you're going to have three four five footers for power all day. So the real magic skill is a great part of a great short putter, I would think, and I think in two thousand tigers, one hundred percent from inside ten feet or something.
Ridiculous stuff might have been that whole year.
Mcdowe's an incredible short putter. He's he talked about last time the green's kind of got a bit ropy in the afternoons last time in twenty ten, and he couldn't understand whatever I was talking about. He thought the greens were rolling perfect. So you know, when you're putting well, you're putting well. So I mean it could be a speech week, you know, it plays into him. If he was playing at his best, this would be like right down Jordan's street. I would have.
Thought, Yeah, I always play as well at Pabo too, and the at and t. It's got a lot of similarities with Augusta in the way of like the skills, a lot.
Of fast greens, really tricky around the greens and fast and side slopes. You're hitting off side slopes, which is yeah, so shape becomes really important, right because the shape is getting dictated to you by the slope. But you kind of sometimes want to have the other shape. So it's real skill that can do that, real form, I should say. I mean everyone could do it out here, it's just it's guy's in form that'll do that.
What do you think about? So with Open you win, you go to sixty Masters lifetime, PGA pretty much lifetime, and then US Open ten years.
It's perfect because there's no other tournament like the US Open. The Masters has proven that you can compete with wisdom and experience to your sixties, right, I mean plenty of guys have shown it over the years. I mean Jack nearly wanted at fifty eight, Freddy's been in contention for the last twenty years. Watson had a bit of a run at some point. Like you can play Augusta. For what you lose in distance, you continue to gain an experience.
So it's just you're not making up the numbers when you're fifty five at the Masters, of you're Fred couples, you're actually a real threat for the tournament. The Open is probably similar. I mean they're getting longer the Opens. But again we saw Tom when he was sixty right nearly when it when he was sixties, So like it's that's doable too. The PGA probably not so much, but that's just the way they do it. But the US Open, I mean, ten years out of winning, you could really
be in different form. You know, it's a long time and the US Open is the ultimate test, and if you are not playing really, really well, you're going to go for a lot and it would kind of well, it would be embarrassing, and it's just it's just not fair on the guy. It's almost fairer to say, look, you know, if you still exempt, that's great because you're still playing well. But if you've not done well for the last ten years, we're going to look after you and not make you do it.
I get in. It would make it less open.
Yeah, it would make it less open too, So that makes more sense to because it is nice that it's effectively one hundred percent of qualifying field. Really. I mean, the PGA, the top fifty in the world guys they've kind of qualified because they've qualified through their last two years of play, right, and the rest of the field is qualified. And it's truly what seventy or eighty or ninety qualifying spots I think in this field, and that's really good.
Is Sectional qualifying like the least covered event and professional golf.
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's a pretty they're interesting days. I mean, nobody likes them. Not two guys don't like them. I mean, I'm sure, like if the US Open is your thing, and you're you're an AM and you're a club golfer and you have a normal job, and you play really well enough for getting the sectional, it's the biggest day of the year, right, it's a really good thing.
But for two guys who have just come off like four tournaments in a row, to go out and play thirty six holes around one course on a Monday is not everyone's favorite. And there's a lot of attrition, Like on the second round. There's nobody there in the second round because anyone who shoots over parms for sure, it just goes home. But there's some cool stuff there they
could get. They could make some good TV there because there's a little drama, Like especially you've always got that young AM kid who's like right on the line and he's waiting at the eight eighth green, and you get the grizzled old who's the only one who can knock him off his spot. Shoots sixty six in his second round, and then the lookle kid gets sad or the little kid makes it, and there's a playoff with seven guys for two spots, and everyone watches and there's some fun
stuff that happens, and it's kind of a throwback. It feels like I'm going to golf a little bit. A lot of guys are carrying their bags, or the local club, the members all come out to watch, and there's like the leaderboard with the someone's just filling in all the boxes with the sharpies and stuff, or like the chisel point doing all the nice graphics and stuff. It's like it's just it's a bit of a throwback. Playing thirty six in a day. I love flaying thirty six in
a day. I wish we did that more. I just think the day you can find yourself. You can get such you can get into such sweet patches of form when you have that long to kind of find your swing for the day. And playing a course twice in a day. I always liked the second lap because you learn all this stuff on the first lap. I don't know they're good things. It'd be a good you could what you can make some pretty good TV out of
it if they condensed it. I mean it's a long day, but you'd condense and make some little package out of it to be fun.
Yeah, thirty six is such a it's like a I always think after the thirty six holidays, like you get in your car and you're driving somewhere and it's like you've been like in a completely different world. It's like
you like escape reality. But then I always think that the back nine and the first nine or of the second round, the back nine of the first round, first time in the second round, it's like that if you're playing good, like those eighteen holes that are like gonna be about best eighteen also goth, you could passibly play.
Yeah, I just like I always loved it. I just I missed thirty six in a day. I mean I would have trouble walking around it at the moment. But and Amatons, we used to play thirty six, thirty six, we do Saturday Sunday thirty six thirty six. We wouldn't think of it and then do it the next weekend. But those qualifiers are they're fun. They're fun because like it is all manner of different like levels of intensity and attitude on gus, you have to go really low,
you have to play really well. The first one I first started playing them, I was really surprised at Like you see the scores and you're like, well, that course must have been easy. But then you go there and you shoot two sixty eighth and you're right under and you missed by two. It's like, wow, this is like it's the next level. The level is really high.
I think there's something too, like the with the qualifiers, where there's this like I guess and if you covered it would lose this A litt all is like where there's like this added shread of like doubt and you don't know what's going on, like where like you don't and that's like one of the toughest things to deal with when you're playing is like you're thinking about the number, yeah, but you have no clue. Nobody knows even you know you're out there and you're like, nobody knows, but you
know you think it's good enough. Eventually you just I don't know.
You kind of get an idea, I guess, but you really don't because it's always lower than you think. You know, you think a six under will make it this course, like when you're nine holes in or something and then it ends up being eleven, right, It's like, well, sometimes it's the other way obviously if you're playing really well.
But that's that's the best. That's the thing you miss in pro golf when you, like you were amateur golf that walked from eighteen, that really fast walked from putting your card in to go see the board to see if you did any good or not because you didn't know what anyone had. So to walk over and see the guy filling in all the boxes with the sharpig, and I think that's just a good moment in golf. It's like the the leaderboards getting flipped up at the Masters. You know, there's a bit of suspense.
You know, and then you're sitting waiting for everybody to come in that's the worst.
And you're going through the things. He had sixty eight in the first round so he could do it, and you pick out the three or four guys who were coming that could actually knock you out. It's like, it's just it's just a fun I just really like that scene. It's just a good scene. And the whole qualify that's what it is is fifty guys standing around the border at the end wondering what's going to happen and talking about all their stories from the golf day and how unlucky they got. Yeah, it's fun.
It's yeah, I could talk about that. I mean, that's this is a whole rabbit hole yourself and week we're talking about qualifier. So with your US Open experience, let's take the wing foot out of it, Like, what was the what was the next best US Opening was it? Was it all pain and suffering in the US Opening?
Or it was all suffering?
Was your next favorite? You know kind of experience with her?
Tory was my next favorite. I played second last group on Sunday with Rocco.
Oh my god.
Yeah, so I was in a pretty good spot. Tiger and Westwood were in the last group. We were in the second last group, and I played pretty well. I think I was like, I don't know if I was ever in the lead, but I might have been title one back going up nine and I plugged one in part five nine at toris like seven thousand hours long, and I plugged in the fairway bunker and then later it and like got it out and then went for the green and plugged it with my third shot in
the bunk. I had two plugs in one hole or something made buggy and never really Friday Glass again Friday egsperts and then ended up eighth or seventh or eighth or something like that. But I just I had the Rocco show. So Roco played great all day, Tiger and Westwood behind us, so that San Diego and that he was at the peak of his powers. Tiger with the knee thing, and like they were just and it was his town and they're going nuts and Roco. Everybody loves
Rocco and it was really really fun. And Rocco finishes eighteen and Tiger's won back now right, Yeah, He's laid it out in the rough, and we were standing around. I had the little gaggle of people and Rocco had the big gaggle of reporters around him while Tiger makes that big part and the noise was just outrageous. I mean, it was pretty special. But I really enjoyed that open again West Coast. We stayed in like delmar I looked at the ocean every day and like seventy degrees and Tory.
It was the one time I really enjoyed playing Tory like it was firm and the greens were decent. It's so tough in the tournament in January that it's just it beats you around the head because it plays so long, because it's cold and soft, and it was I had a great time. That was my second favorite, easily my second favorite.
I was reading about oh Sex and I saw like one of the quotes that stuck out was like how good Porter was to play with, like in the final round, Like what do you do? You think there's something about like when you're coming down the stretch, like you're playing partner and situations like that.
Oh yeah, I mean I knew Paulton really well by
that point. I mean socially, we hung out and we played in Europe together a fair bit, so I knew him really well, and we're kind of similar age, and so it was just I think being with one of your boys helps, you know, or maybe it can hurt in some situations, But for me it was great because he was his energy was well, if he wasn't gonna win it, then he wanted me to win it, right, so you can then that's kind there's something about that, you know, if a guy can be obstreperous out there
and act a bit like a right whatever. He's not that into you winning that It's different. I don't know. It just did good energy and he was It was just fun to be with one of your mates when you win the tournament and the scorers. Thatt with him was the best because we kind of watched the film show unfold a little bit on the TV and the scorer's hut, and he was just you could look in his eye when Phil ends up hitting his second shot, hits the tree, it drops and starts looking for me,
looking pold. His eye was like he had this little glimmer in his eye, like this is going to work out pretty well. He was just genuinely happy for me, and it was nice to be with someone like, you know who's just because I would have been happy for him to win. It would have been great. I don't know I would have been as genuinely happy as he seemed. He was just really pumped that his playing partner and his friend is about to win this tournament. It was
just a nice group. You know. He wire all pink too, pink shoes, pink socks, pink pants, belt, everything on father's day in New York. So it was pretty brave. So he took all the attention away, which was great.
That was during Palter's apparel era, Like you know, he were he wore that all gold that one time. Remember that that goal. Whenever I think Ian Porter, I think about that outfit, I can't get it out.
Pretty brave man, like not short on confidence with his apparel.
His story. I mean when he turned pro with have a four handicap legend, that just a legend.
Like he if there's any like a like a case that you can talk yourself into something if you want it bad enough, he talked himself into it. You know. I mean there's clearly people with more physical skills, but he has turned himself into them. Like just an outrageously good player and under pressure he is just I mean he has the respect of the whole locker room because the stuff he does in the right A cup, it's just on another level, Like it's outrageous. How good he is. His story is incredible.
Yeah, he's I think he obviously gets it. He gets under people's skin. So like you know, I think from like a fan perspective, you know, there's a lot and in New York. He just I'll think he just had to be.
And it's kind of rubbing it in their face, right, because it's exactly what they don't want their golfers to be wearing in New York. I see, I feel like and it's just but he he banters back fun with them and like they end up loving him, right because he's great to them.
What was that with Phil? Like, you know, he's like the New York guy and like being in the mix with Phil and the mix out of us upend, Like did it feel like more of an atmosphere of like a I don't know President's Cup ever it has had like an atmosphere like a Ryder Cup, but like that Raider Cup where you were playing like almost against the hometown crowd, like you were at an away game, like if it was like an NBA Finals.
It's certainly in the last nine holes when it became apparent that he might win, it was very profil. But it wasn't anti anybody else. It was just pro Phil. They love him, I mean they they just love him so much. And the way he was playing that week, he was driving at the Raff, making a crazy part driving the raff, making Birdie out of the raff, like he was doing crazy stuff from crazy places and it was just probably really great fun to watch the way
he was doing it. But yeah, the last he made he made Bertie on fourteen when we were on the fifteenth tee and it was like really out of the rough and he hit it to four feet or five feet and they just went absolutely ballistic when he made the part. I was like, wow, this is these people want this guy to win really bad. But we're kind of sad for the middle in the end, because like they were like it was their man's weak right.
How much were you like paying attention to the leaderboard when you were in the hunt and tournaments coming down the stretch.
Normally quite a lot. I never really found it weird to see my name on it, so I didn't. I never noticed myself react negatively weird, like play poorly after looking at it, So I never really came up with a reason to not look at it. But that week, for whatever reason, whether there weren't many or whatever, I
didn't really look much on the back nine. Maybe I knew that it was better for me to not, and I had I knew I was I think I was two back with four to play, maybe, and I was kind of losing my head a little bit frustrated because I think I burgied fourteen and feel birdied fourteen, so maybe I was even three back at that point. I don't know, probably two bad. And Squirrel Makeddie just said, look, let's no one's going to part of the last four holes.
Let's just part of the last four holes, and who knows, no one's going to do that, so let's just do that. You'll be really close if you do that. So I kind of, like, for whatever reason, had this moment of being sensible for once on the golf course, and I actually really did just try to part fifteen, and then when I got to sixteen, I'm like, oh, I just make part because it seemed like such a ridiculous proposition.
It kind of forced me to just think about the next shot in front of me, like to part of the last four holes. That's how hard it seemed like a proposition. So I didn't even like running a marathon it so let's just run the first mile. So here
we go. And I was one of the only times in my life that I was actually like that, like properly one shot at a time, or one hole at a time, Part fifteen, Part sixteen, made a good up and down from shore of the green on sixteen, drove it the trees on seventeen and ended up chipping in for par. I mean, my ball never really was on the green except when it was rolled into the hole, and then eighteen made a great par. In the end,
I got in a great drive, got unlucky. It went into a divot that was kind of like an old sound divot and hit a decent second shot, I thought, and I was actually posing. I thought i'd actually stiffed it. It was right at it, and I thought it had landed like a foot short of where it needed to. But you watched on TV, he'd probably landed five yards short where it needed And it was probably the sand and the divot that made it go shorter than I thought it was going to go. I felt like I
got all ball. But you know, Sandy Divotts, this is not quite the same as grass got up there and had a filthy little pitch. But the thing that I the first time I really noticed that I knew the true state of affairs is when I got to that green after I'd missed it short. We got up there, the leaderboard was to the left of the green, which and it's kind of a dog leg left wing foot, so you can't see the leaderboard till you get to the green that Monty had made six not five. We
knew Monty had made bogey. We saw him miss a part on the green and there was a groan, and we knew we'd missed the green. But I guess he'd three padded, so he'd made double. So it wasn't until then I had that pitch suret the third shot on eighteen that I knew that it was. Phil was the only one in front of me, and if I got up and down, I was second on my own. We figured I was on the same score as Monty because we thought he'd make bugg. You made double that so
that made me a little bit. I still thought I was gonna get up and down and finished second at this point with a real chance to to playoff. You know that kind of went through my head. It's say, back, that was eighteen whole playoff days too, so like new hotel room, Like what am I going to do? Like all this stuff, So you were thinking about that kind of a minute, like it flashed into my head like, oh wow, I could because for the previous three holes,
I kind of thought I wasn't. I didn't think about winning or anything because I thought I wasn't going to win. I just figured Phil was going to because as I said, I was at least two back, I think, and there were no birdies to be had. So I had a really good pitch. It was an easy pitch probably to hit the fifteen feet because it kind of goes up again past the hole, so, but a hard one to hit the four or five or whatever it hit. I hit a really good one and it came out nicely
and spun and did everything it needed to do. So that was nice that I didn't that I gave myself an relatively simple put out. It was downhill, but it was downhill inside right. You could just get it moving and it was going to go in if you started in the right spot. So and then yeah, Phil did what he did. So when I when I made it, when I was putting it, like, I thought it was a really good chance for a playoff because eighteen is really hard, right, yeah, And I think there was no
balls that we could see on the fairway. But I didn't. I never thought that would be to win the tournament out right. Ever, No, it never entered my head. Who thought who was going to think that he would make double?
That Johnny Carl was pretty epic. A buddy of mine sent me that, like because he had a fried egg and then yeah, the way Johnny said the like and it's just funny how but like I was listening as like an advocate, you know, Carl. But with that that pit shot, I mean, I've always thought, like a really pitch that you hit the pitch just rate is one of the greatest feelings in golf. Like right when you hit it, you know, it was just perfect.
It was ridiculous. Like I'd been working on it for my pitching more than anything else for a long time, just for a few different reasons. But there's that one shot, and I think only really really great short games actually have ever felt that perfect, Like elite golfers have felt that one that just comes out so perfect, you know, just grabs on the face properly, and it flights a little bit lower whatever, and it's spinning and it's like it's a one in five even when you're pitching it.
Well right, Yeah, But balladas. It was a little bit easier, but like these days, it's just and you're gonna have really good grus and clean and a good line. Everything's got to work right and when you do it, even when you're practicing, you like look around. So did anyone say that he good? Was that? I mean, it's just a special feeling and it came out like.
That you want, yeah, it grabs just right. Yeah, just it remained me that pitch and Justin Roses and Marion they like those they're very similar, like like they but maybe that's like the thing is like with the Masters, Like everybody like, oh, you know the US Open, like but like that that shot in golf is is unbelievably fun to watch, is like the recovery shot. And yeah, and I think there's something like Masters. You we think about the approaches and everything, and the Open is that
you have the elements and everything. And the US Open sometimes people are like, well, they're just getting beat over the head, but like those are the shots that kind of win.
And they're the shots that like move the needle in the locker room, if you like, the people got the guys in the locker room get really excited about the great short game shots just the freakish ones you know there are and you have to have a freakish green a week around the greens, especially at pebble, because I mean they are so small. I mean, twelve grains a day would be really impressive for you, you know. So that's six up and downs the day. That's twenty four
for the week. Like, that's a lot of times. You gotta get up and down and a long stuff to really slope greens.
So the other thing with the with the pitches is that's where I feel like the nerves can get you.
The mass short grass, Yeah, pictures with a wedge, Yeah, with a lob wedge or something. They you can get them wrong for sure. They're the one. Well, they're the ones when you say guys have issues where they're pitching, like targeted a few years ago, that's the one that you don't want. You know, you're not rough under the ball. No one gets the flubs out of the rough. I mean you might not good shots, but you don't fat
them or thin them out of the rough. But off the short grass, that's that's that's when you know you be pitching it well. When you could you could pitch yourself a pudding green and it would go well, you.
Know, yeah, it's it's still true. It's I mean the short game and stuff. I think, I don't know, what did you think about Aaron Hills a few years ago? Like from the idea, you know, people are always about thick rough, but like the short grass around the greens.
I think if the course suits short grass, then I like short grass around the greens. I think it's a it's sometimes it's a it's an easier test for a good picture, and it's a harder test for a bad picture, you know, a bad short game. And I think it's kind of what you want, right you want the guys who are playing well, who have the complete game, to be able to separate themselves. I think sometimes some courses just don't lend themselves to that yeah set up. And
I think sometimes rough around the greens. It's not my if I was going to build a course from scratch, you would always try to build it where balls were going to roll off round greens, like they do with the Masters or something. But sometimes I think rough around the greens is a good test, especially if it's varying rough. I'm not sure if I love the uniform stuff. It's relatively the same shot you have to play out. It
doesn't matter where you go. When it's that perfect four inch high rye grass, it's all in a dead straight vertical. I think sometimes that's a little bit kind of boring. I like that kind of gnally kind of variable rough that you get into the fescue at Chittacock or in Britain.
You get some pretty narly stuff. And I think that again, the really gifted short games, which is what you're trying to find in a golf tournament, is the gifted the good guys, right, the guys who are playing their best, the more variety you give them a on the greens, I think that's maximum chance for the best golf, the cream to rise at the top in the end.
Variable testing people talk about the identity of the US helping, Well, what would you say, is you're the identity of the US helping.
It's the hardest test relative to power in golf.
So par is a central piece of air.
Well they think it is. I don't think it is, but there are I mean I would argue that there are just as difficult as shots. On weeks where we shoot fifteen under, you know what I mean, But maybe the power is a little different stuff. Sometimes it's like it's a battle. They have a tournament at Whisper Rock once a year where they put the pins on sides of hills. It's crazy staff and the tees. Your right foots off the back of the tee on every hole. It's called the Battle of attrition. I think the US
Open is the battle of attrition. That's his identity. They just have this obsession. It seems like they're hopefully they're losing it now, but or they're drifting away from it to get us to shoot around pass somewhere. And that's I think probably where they go wrong, because sometimes that's just not possible unless there's weather involvement, you know, or if it's too soft or something so and then they'll just go nuts with the greens just to keep us somewhere near PA, you know.
I mean.
I just think, just find a set up that allows the guys who are playing their best that week separate themselves. I don't think the score is I don't think it matters. I think the US Open generally does that. I mean, you can't fake it at the US Open. You have to be playing well. You know, you really don't. You can't get away with a bad driver that week, or a bad putter or a bad anything, right. I mean in a normal week, maybe you can kind of get the talented guys can get away with something being a
little bit off, but not at the US Open. Battle of attrition just every shot is that every hole is the hardest hole at your home club, set up as hard as it can and you do that seventy two holes holes in a row. Like it's just there's never a let up.
I imagine like US Open rounds, when you get off the course, did you feel different than say a normal PGA Tour event.
Yeah, fatigued? You know that. I mean anyone who's ever played competitive golf who like knows they have to part of the last nine holes or do a stretch of holes and it's in a really good score to like get to make a card or to make the match play at your club, James, or whatever it is. And you you hold that kind of whatever it is, that focus at tension or whatever in your head, that really intensity I guess it is that has to be high when you play US Open. So you feel I think
after a Thursday, especially if you're doing well. If you're doing poorly, I think you kind of male it in a little bit, just because you focus on all how bads must score hards. It's just when you kind of playing well, you just hang on to that tension and that anxiety and the intensity. It's a bit of a Not many people grind on the range of the US Open after they play. I mean the guys still do, but way less than an normal tournament. Yeah, it's tiring.
It's super tiring mentally tiring, because every shot is the hardest shot you've ever had. Almost It feels like sometimes you play Oakmond and every hole is the hardest home you've ever played, and you got it an eighteen times in a row, and every time you miss the shot, you make a bogie like that. That's a level of intensity or pressure or something on every shot that's not normal.
What do you think would happen if they changed the power? They say they made pebble par sixty nine. You know, guys are hitting mid irons at eighteen. Guys are hitting you know, they're hitting the only real par five where you know the definition of parr in nineteen eleven was that ideal shots from tee to green, allowing for two parts.
Well, I think it would be interesting. I think some guys would have different scores, don't you think, Like if you made eighteen to part four for one tournament, and you might eight in the part five for the tournament the next week, and everything else was exactly the same, the scoring average would be different.
They'd they'd score better at past sixty nine, I think so. I mean that's what they say they see with this loss of version stuff. But like, but then all of a sudden, like if Pebble's par sixty nine, like you don't have to do anything crazy to have score be around park.
No, that would be interesting.
Yeah, that's like what I And if you want the definition of par like because it's all based off of this history, right, but par's arbitrary.
You could draw the line in the sand whatever you want. It's us. It's our perception of whether over power under power is a good score or not. It doesn't really mean anything.
Right exactly, Like you know, like this is the thing is like for some why did PARR become a determinive different dificulty when it's just made up and it's like nobody would say, like if you played pebble in the US Open, then you play it on a Sunday morning in April with you know, after it rained, you know, an inch and there's no wind, like, be completely different golf course.
Yeah, and oak Water to past seventy eight isn't necessarily an easy course. Still just the same shots, right, it's still really really hard. Yeah, just because you're six under it doesn't mean it's easy. Every shot'spin just as hard to shoot seventy two as it was being two over it's seventy two. Yeah, it's the same because it's a mental difference. Though.
It made me think about Trinity Forrest too. When I started thinking about this, it's like, oh, traenty fourth is easy because they're shooting twenty three underd It's like, well you got mid iron into one. Everybody's going for seven, you know, five is everybody can get home?
You know, Yeah, it played short last year, so then all of.
A sudden you got It's like if it was part sixty eight and eleven underwins, it's said twenty three under, would people say it's easy.
No, of course it wouldn't.
No. So it's like the problem with the USGA. This par thing is a real thing.
Right, Well it is, but it shouldn't be.
Yeah, because it's not. That isn't a difficulty, right, because something can be difficult and you could shoot sixty five. Yeah, but if everybody shoots, you know, seventy, you still played really good.
It would be I would rather than see them defend power by changing par than changing the course, which is kind of what you're saying, Yeah, that's right, or manipulating the course. I mean it should be at its most difficult, right. It should be like the club championship in any club. It should be back teas. It should be the greens as good and fast and firm as you can make them sensibly, and your four toughest pins. It should be yeah,
you know. And if that has us shooting adding under power and that makes the USGA not happy, then yeah, change the par don't manipulate the course and put the pins on sides of the hills and grow the rough crazy long and do crazy stuff. Just have it. I don't know it'd be an interesting to do it. I think you just want to see the guy who plays the best be able to showcase his skills and win, you know, like people here in two thousand. I mean, the best player in the world clearly found the course
pretty playable and no one else did. So it gave the best player in the world the best canvas possible to win. And so does Scenanders because he won by nine like ten minutes later. Right, So two completely different courses that found the best golfer in the world and no one could catch him. A bad setup in that era would have been one that Tiger didn't win by a lot, you know, because those those setups allowed him to show he was the best as long as it
allows that. I don't think it matters what the score is.
Is there one that sticks out like that was where you felt like the most where it wasn't you know, the best player what you know, didn't they made it one, but that you know they it was hard to separate.
I thought Chambers was hard to set up. I think the best player ended up winning and it was a great leader board in the end. So, but that would have been a hard one to separate because you just couldn't make any puts. You just couldn't, Like, it just wasn't possible.
Would that be a good venue if they fix if the greens, the grass or.
It's an interesting venue, Like it's the weird property that there's about five or six holes that go up and down this just massive cliff at the edge of this quarry. And I don't like those holes at all, but all the ones on the bottom I thought were really cool. And I think the fine fescue Open was good for
the Open. I like that kind of Lynxy is not lynxy, but the ball running like a Lynx course, running fifty sixty seventy meters and like going over with these hills and running down slopes, and I think it's a different style of test. Great players generally play well when it gets like that. Yeah, so that's kind of why I like that. I mean, the partner's number two is completely unique for US Open, but it's perfect. You're going to find a good player.
There because and camer separated.
Separated, like truly separated. See that's a piners is maybe a little bit too far around the greens because KMA chipping would be his achilles here if he has one, because chipping is so hard there, then he actually he didn't have. His weakness wasn't necessary. He didn't have to expose his weakness because you can put from everywhere Pinehurst, you know, so he didn't have to chip. There's interesting that what's seen as a short game test might actually be more of a long game test, you know.
Like yeah, I guess yeah, because he could put everywhere.
Apart from everywhere, he didn't have to use his laugh so that's countship. But if he has a weakness, it would be in that area. So he puts from everywhere, and he's an incredible ball striker. But yeah, that great players and he's a great player. Clearly thrive when it gets fiery, you know, like so I kind of and Chambers get super fiery. That was as fiery as I've seen it open. So I think in some respects it's
a good venue. But I think he'd have trouble getting the players to go back to go back there with that complaining because that was pretty poor. The Greens. Yeah, not that no one's fault. They lost him, but and it was they lost them too late and you couldn't save them. But we had best of it. I mean it was incredible weather. We had eighty five degrees and some for seven days straight. Huge crowds, too, huge crowds, they love it up. There would be great I mean it's.
A there's in more places up in the Pacific Northwest because like this is the best West Coast open by far, the best because like you know, everybody gets to watch the most golf yeah, of any open.
Like, and it's predictable weather. Yeah, it never rains in the West Coast in summer ever, you know, and it's nice all day and it's a good temperature, and like you said, the East Coast TV, it's perfect. Everyone gets home from work and watches yeah, perfect.
Yeah, And they just seed more good golf course down the West coast.
Well, there's plenty. You know. California's got two coming up, right, It's got this and in LA in two years. Yeah yeah, No, Tory in two years and then LA in a couple of years after that. So they're coming here a lot. Toris in a couple of years.
Right, Yeah, yeah, they got two years.
That's a good open. Toy is a good open. It's you know, it'll surprise you. I promise you. It's a great open. It is. If it's like it was last time, it's brilliant.
It's what means help. The Tiger made wing Foot so tough and of sex.
Well, it was the first year they did the graduated rough, so the rough was playable. It was the first year we could miss the fairway by three or four yards and move it somewhat near the green. I mean it wasn't like you could get a five on on it, but you could backfoot a nine one or and eight on and hack it up somewhere around the green and hope you could get it up and down, whereas before it was just get this, get the sandwich out, and you was open up to that point. So that was different.
So that was kind of easier. But the greens at wing Foot are brutally hard, really back to front pitched greens with like kind of waves and stuff, and they're really tricky and their power they get ropie when you push them, really really firm, and they were kind of difficult to put on beaten up. I would have called them on Thursday and Friday afternoon. And when they're really fast, really slopey with a little bit of ropiness about them, it gets really tough. And it's just naturally it's a
tough course. It's like Okamon. It's one of those just naturally difficult courses that there's really no good places to miss it on some holes, and the greens play really effectively small, and my shelt game was just outrageous at that point. So I didn't really I did it because I got up and down a lot kind of had to do.
You expect a similar like scoring next year.
I think golf is gold The standard of golf is generally higher than it was then. There's more good players. I mean, we were playing great golf. We thought we were playing great golf, and clearly Tiger was playing as good as anybody kind of around that era.
But how's the first time he missed a cutting? Like forever?
His father just died a year Yeah, so fill and the Masters and he won hole Lake straight after that. So but that era was obviously good. But I feel like it's deeper now. Those the pool that you would you were picked, thing that could win a major now is bigger than it was then.
Did they have the Grand Slam Ofcgarf that year?
Yeah?
Did you play? That had to be one of the last years for.
That it We were one of the last ones in Kawaii. We went to Kawaii and they went to Bermuda for a couple of years after that. It was a crazy event. I think Furich was at mine because he had the next best scoring average because Tiger won two. So it was Phil the Tiger and Weir and Furick, I think because they always used to let the if someone won
too for that year. But the best, the best thing out of the best thing that came out of wing Foot was I played with Tiger and Film in the first year rounds of Madonna in two thousand and six, which was the biggest crowd I've ever seen. It was just unbelievable for six holes. It was a really fun six holes because it was the height. Field won the Masters, Tiger won the Open, and I'm in sandwich in the middle, Like no one really even cares that I'm there, so
I'm just a spectator. Really, it was crazy. It was really fun. And Chicago people are allowed, as you know, and Madonna's a loud place like the amphitheaters.
And a loud place except when the Euros make a Sunday.
Rosie makes the seventy, it's really quiet.
Yeah, is that the playing with Tiger shot thing? Real? Like the people say, like I think Rory and GT said something like last year after riv like you know, it had to be a shot a shot in half.
What they dealt with that day because I played two groups in front of them that day. What they were dealing with because that was Tiger just back out. Everyone's hyped this has come back number four or whatever, but like this one's going to stick, right.
People were just crazy for the craziest morning, outrageous.
And River is a really small property and holes are really close together, and uh, target group. Tiger fans are different from normal golf fans, or an element of his crowd is different. They're Tiger fans. They're not golf fans. So they're just there to see their man. They don't like understand that there's other groups on the course, and I mean, that's not what they're about. They're about seeing Tiger, right.
So I think whenever I played, I play with him a lot, and I was pretty fortunate in some pretty good situations like that. People were great. But I think on these comebacks, especially when he hasn't been around for a long time and then he came in. When he came back, people were extra crazy. It was look, it was tough. He was good to play with him, that he wouldn't put in part out if he didn't have to and like get the crowd to walk off and stuff.
He was generally pretty good to you like that, Like he had he had an understanding or an awareness of the effect that he had on the crowd, so he was pretty good with it. But yeah, it's difficult. The hardest group to play in was in front of Tiger in those days or any day really probably because every time whenever you're putting, his crowd's coming up the fairway. They're all walking to try to get positioned around the green.
They're all trying to get on the tee, they're all trying to get positioned for the next group to get a good view. So they don't care that you're putting. They're just walking right because they want to be next to the green. So the least favorite draw historically would have been a group in front of him, not with him. With him, it's kind of your bit insulated because it's you're just in amongst it, and it's like that white noise. It's just so much noise, you know, it's like noise
canceling headphones. You don't notice after a while because it's just constant. But the group in front or around him, that gets tough because you don't quite have the white noise effect, but you have the stampeding masses up coming up behind you when you're hitting all the time.
That's interesting. So what we got five under through day one, what's the winning score going to be at Pebble.
I think it'd be less than ten. I think there's no course that I know that could get difficult quick faster than Pebble. I think just by amount of water they put on the greens. It's not going to rain, I mean it, if it stays foggy, it won't get as firm. But they could get the greens crazy firm and crazy fast really quick here, I think, And I think by the end they'll be tough, although they probably a little gun shy right because of their last few years.
They need a really smooth, good one, right, I need no one to talk about set up.
Well, it's too easy.
But again, if if it goes too deep, they're obviously not afraid because Aaron Hill's yeah, they went into the teens, right, so they've broken that kind of Well that.
Was rain no whend yeah two, I don't know.
I don't The forecast doesn't look like there's anything too crazy coming, but I think it'll be like high single digits, I would think. I don't think there'll be a whole lot of people under part at the end. I mean seventy two holes here. Eventually you're going to have some you're going to have some bumps in the road, you know, and it's going to get progressively harder every day. I didn't really study the pins today, but most pins that
are tough because they're also slopey. So single digits under path we'll see.
You know, if it's eight be even part of parax.
Well there you go. Yeah, so it's past seventy one, it is past every one. Yeah, that's not a bad way to think about it. Actually, if they're really obsessed with score near Pa, just change the power. But then we're going to be growing because there's night pop offs.
Well but is it a part five anymore? If to so, think about the definition two ideal shots from an expert player, or how many ideal shots from an expert player plus two putts?
Yeah, well that that's a difficult definition.
Eighteen at Pebble, if you hit a great drive, gat not a four. But if you hit a great drive and great second shot, you're on the green, right, yes. So if on six at Pebble you hear a great drive, great second shot, good say even good good drive, good second chat, you're on the green, right, yeah, so it's part four. That's what it was in nineteen eleven.
Six four definition of yeah, yeah, well it's interesting, but you're arguing it kind of kills itself because par it doesn't really matter anyway, right.
Well it does. Then I'm just saying, if you're going to care about score it apart, then you got to adapt.
And I've always traditionally done traditionally that's what they did, right They'd go to a normal course, pinching the fairways a little bit, turn a past eventy two and a past seventy and that was it. That's that was kind of their thing. And they just got so excited about how hard they made it that they just took it too far. Maybe sometimes what if you but but you say that if you look at the list of champions we've had, even through these controversy setups like Jordan speak
winning at Chambers. Everyone thought that was a disaster. You give me the the best goal from the world at the time won and he beat Dustin Johnson, who was probably the other best golfer in the world at the time. Adam Scott was up there and Jason David they were all right there, right, Brooks has won twice in a row. He's clearly the best player in majors. So they're finding
the right champions. So say what we want that they're ticking my box and that they're letting the best player in the field show his skills, you know.
Yeah, and then yeah, like it already their early outreach today is like I was too soft and you look at the leader ports like then you get the best in the world at the top, Like you don't, Like I went to watch you know today and it's like you watch it, you hit a bad shot, Like it's gonna be really really really hard to make par you know, like you guts.
Funny that people look at the score rather than the Nimes. Yeah, I think it is the Moors look at the names and Lightbow, not the Scooes all shooting. To me.
Yeah, but and that's like the thing that drove me kind of crazy about Aaron Hills when everybody was going nuts, was like that Saturday was absolutely electric. You had j T make an like he made eagle on eighteen for I mean, he shot sixty three, Patrick Reid shot sixty five, He hit nine greens. You know, he's just chipping in from everywhere making everything. Like you know, it's just an unbelievable round where you saw these guys just playing un
I mean, Fleetwood had a crazy good round. Like it was like all the greatest players in the world are having Like you're watching them do spectacular stuff and everybody's complaining because they're shooting low score.
And I was just nonsense wrong. Yeah, Like, but that's part of it's almost on because if you go to a different venue every year, you can't get us to shoot the same score because we're just on different courses in different conditions. It should you should have low scoring years at high scoring years. I mean, it should go like that depending on where you go and what the conditions and the weather have been. So we need to golf fans collectively need to give the USGA a break
on the score at least. Yeah. Well, I think it's like I need to get rid of it out of their head too. I think they still have it in their head. I think a little bit of the score.
I think like the every venue should have their unique thing right, yeah, because like that's what the Open has.
The Open is unique and nobody ever cares or remembers the score that's been shot at the Open, and each venue is like necessary freakish score.
They're kind of like unique little thing like well, at Troon you got to avoid all of the bunker like Truan on the Moon, you know, and then you've got Burkedale, which everybody's oh it's the bad, but it's it's much more of a standard task, like you know, everybody's got and like nobody cares that at the Old Court. So if somebody, if they win at eighteen hundred, you.
Know, cares, well. I don't think many people care. No one goes away going oh they Open wasn't a real tournam this year because I didn't under won the tournament, right, Like, no even think spect saying something on it. Yeah, it's funny.
I don't know. My thought is just like par hasn't been adjusted for the modern game, and that's why they're having such problems with setup to protect par.
Well, you can't do it with length. They've been trying to do it with length, and you can't do it with length, and you shouldn't do it by making the greens too fast, so the ball doesn't ever stop on a slope, right, So whatever else you can do, I guess, you know, and par is the easiest way to at least affect the number on the right hand side of the scoreboard.
Yeah, if you're not going to regulate, if you you know, they didn't regulate the technology that allowed for mass distance, but they've regulated par where they don't allow power to move. Yeah, which is it doesn't make any sense.
That's it's quite interesting, but it would be a shame if we lost great like Part five strategies and stuff, because everything just became a Part four. And see, I don't know if it's completely it's completely the same because two ideal shots. It's not the whole field that can hit two ideal shots on the eighteenth, you.
Don't think so, No, everybody's hitting it past the tree.
Well in this particular week. But if it goes two miles an hour into the wind and gets misty and foggy, no one in the field gets it there into so.
You can't see. Because that that's a funny thing with Chambers. Remember when you can't say.
It's an ideal driver. Three wood from two to sixty, right, it's got to be like a I think it has to be a driver and an iron for pretty much everyone in the field for it to be a part four an iron, the longest iron three on drivers, three iron, that can be a part four for I'll pick on Zack. Yeah, Zach's in the bottom twenty percent of driving distanceably in the field. Okay, but I mean he may disagree.
He's been working on as uh.
You know, speak space. But it's a dissensible to ninety something, right, But the guy it's a two ninety something. He's not hitting an iron in the eighteenth of Pebble Beach. He's a three wood probably, yeah, maybe not maybe five wood. That's well, look at the shot. It is, though, there's got to be some respect for the difficulty of the shot.
See, it would be easier if you went half pars, because then if you made if you made eighteen eighteen and six half pars and you were you're par seventy, how do you have a half par? I mean there's there's I mean, like I said, Pinehurst four and five when Core flipped the pars.
Yeah, and they did Chambers in the tournament. Yeah, one in eighteen is.
Four five four five, and people went nuts, couldn't You just didn't think it.
Was that weird that that was one of the least weird things about Chambers. I think it was kind of a little bit weird.
Because you think about par you think about, oh, I mean birdie or boguey.
I don't know, how do you make a power if it's a half ba.
But when you say you make a birdie on like a two forty par three, you walk off the green. In your head, you're kind of like, I got I got a little more on a shot there, right, Yeah, when you make a bogie on like a really hard part four, you think that way too, right, Yeah? Yeah, I don't know what about this idea, whatever the leader is, is that zero everyone else's PA, everyone else is not over par but just one four six.
Well, certainly, like it's hard to mess with PA because it's the way of measuring someone's skull relative to everyone else at different points in the round, because that's not just wait till the end and you've had childred and seventy four shots sort of it like it's you need to be able to measure in the middle of a round. Maybe that would be a massive shift in golf scoring thinking.
It would be I think, to a certain extent better because it would show.
It would be better if we didn't worry about past so much. But power is so important for handicapping, right, so it.
Would be standard though with everything across, like you'd see, oh, like he won by you know, like people would stop saying, oh, it was like what you said at the beginning. Like sometimes when it's you know, somebody shoots twenty two hunderd, it's still really challenging.
It can be.
Yeah, so if they wanted.
Zero always, yeah, that guys it was at zero maybe, and it will.
Show relative people, Yeah, start to judge relative performance more because like you know, I don't know, I'm trying to sell you on some Craig crack pot.
I think golf's doing it. I think they just need to just understand. Like last year, I think, I mean they're going to say that I don't know, they didn't do anything wrong and it just got either go unlucky. But they just have to say, well, sometimes we're going to shoot low these boys. You know, if we don't have the weather this week, or we didn't have the lead up weather, or we didn't get the course to how we thought it could be as tough as well.
That's what we go this week. Let's just make the best of it, and they shoot fifteen they shoot fifteen under and let that happen every now and then. When they can't make it really difficult. Sometimes it's easy, right, You got to openmond, you have to do anything. You just open the gates, and it's tough pineers and number two it's going to be the same. But sometimes you come to pebbles sometimes and maybe it's been a little bit damp in spring. It's just going to be soft.
It just is what it is, and guys are going to go low. That's all right though, right, Yeah, good players when the at and t great players when the eighteen t usually yeah, you know, so you're going to find a good champion anyway.
I think what you said about like look at the leaderboard, not the score, look at the names.
Yeah, like that's the if you get the names. I mean, you can tell the guys people in golf who follow golf, they regardless of the world rankings, know the cream. You know who's playing well at the time, and the cream in that field. If the cream that field if the platform they're on or the course they're on allows the guys who are playing their best to be there at the end on Sunday, then it's a good setup. And
that's that's what the Masters does. They almost always get everyone they should have in contention in contention deep on Sunday afternoon because the test that's presented is it's such a complete test that only the players playing really, really well can pass that test.
Well. Yeah, and then like this year is a perfect example. It was a wet, warm week, you know, like not ideal for them, like conditioning wise, and then on Sunday you got Mulinarry would all that.
Every pre tournament favorites opt for Rory is like they're really in contention, you know. And it seems to happen every year. So it doesn't really matter the score that is. It just matters that the players playing their best are given the kind of platform that allows them to show their skills, you know, and that doesn't always have sometimes, I'm not saying in US Opens, but sometimes we have tournaments that really lay on like it's all about to
go who parts well? See Beth Page. I think is a little bit one dimensional in that you just can't do it unless you fly it a really long way in the air, which is a massive part of being one of the best players in the world, right, But it's not probably the complete test that you could get at the Masters, which is massive on distance, but it's also massive on strategy and short game.
And I mean, think about if Spith had gained ten shots or eleven charts like he did at beth Page and at the Masters, like on the greens he has one of the historically unbelievable putting me. Yeah, and he was what six shots behind Brooks, Yeah, no chance.
Yeah, no chance. It was well, certainly much more difficult, and like there's a there's probably a time for that test, you know, just like there's the time for the tiny, little, small, bouncy narrow test. You know, there's a time horrible yeah, Harbortown style test, well, the Marian kind of deal, you know. But as long as the best, the guys who are playing their best are kind of given that opportunity to shine,
I think you know you've got it right. I don't think the score matters then, And the best tournaments always had the the best leaderboards, the best setup, So the best golf course setups always have the best leader boards, and they're the final ones to watch. The other ones we want to watch. We want to watch number one versus number three, number versus number seven versus whoever else. You know, we always want to watch our heroes.
Yeah, that's the most memorable ones. Yeah, no, very remember that. I don't know some people remember the other ones, but you know you remember Jack versus Watson Dull in the.
Sun, Yeah, and like and that Obviously that was rock hard that week, and it allowed the two best players in the world at that time showcased that there was so much better than third at that moment. You know. It was a bit like Hendrick can Fiel. It true, and it was obviously very playable that week if you were playing like them. If you weren't, it was completely impossible, right,
So it allowed perfect It's a perfect setup. That was absolutely magic, and who doesn't that was one of the best weekends of golf to ever watch.
Yeah, I always will remember that one.
Yeah, that course it's naturally tough. You don't have to do anything, true, all.
Right, we're gonna wrap it. I don't know, I don't need to give you any more of my theories it's enough for a day. But thanks for coming on. Who you are, who you taking. We're midway through round one.
So well. I was picking Jordan before the week, but.
We got to get a leaderboard up to eight.
Here, we're gonna get an update. Xander is interesting, Xander's Xander look good. I think Louis. I always liked Louis. If Louis gets down deep in the tournament, he's more competitive than people know, and he is. He's got every.
Show, the Grand Slam runner up.
Yeah, he's got the Grand Slam runner up. He's a big he's a big time performance. Let's go for Louis.
Yeah, all right, I got I took Dustin, but he's even. He's already five shots back.
Dustin at Pebbles always gonna be there and nothing.
Pros prosident. The Boston story instant, the Baston consist papers,