Five Things About the 2021 U.S. Open with Geoff Ogilvy

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You're the Tory Fight, Stefandrew, the Ultimate Tory Fights. You love it, obviously you played great Noid, But why is it a great as you've said, an awesome US Open venue?

Well, I never loved it in January or February when we play the Buick or what is it now, the Farmers, I disliked it a lot. I mean, you play the whole West Coast and the desert courses. I love like the Hope was always a good warm up tournament. Phoenix is a great tournament? Or else is there? We have? Yeah, and the California Ones. I always I love Pebble for what it is, but it's a frustrating tournament because of

The Tory was just such a long slog.

You play Phoenix and you'd be in like eighty five degrees and to be sunny, and you'd be hitting the ball three twenty. And then you get to Tory and you're driving two forty up a first ago so short and it's so long, and you're just for hitting out of this dewey wet raff all week and I just I found it brutal and then so I wasn't looking forward to two thousand and eight at all. And then when we got there, it might be my favorite US Open that I ever played to be fair outside of

To the bottom.

It sort of you could get lucky in the raff and it could kind of hover because it's such a thick grass, you know.

And I don't know, I just found it like.

If if you had the recovery skill, you could actually do it, whereas in January Febry.

You just couldn't. So it was funny.

It was the most surprising US Open over play going there and thinking, oh my god, this is going to be eight thousand yards of.

Just brutal to Ah, this is actually all right.

Like it played a lot shorter at that time of year, and I was obviously playing really well, and then the way it finished.

I played with Roco on Sunday and he was having the best day.

I was kind of in it till after till about nine to play and then had two or three bogies on the back and maybe finished seventh or eighth or something I think in the end, but I was on the Rocco bandwagon in the last few holes. It was fantastic and the hold that part it was. It was a great tournament.

Yeah, we had the superintendent on and he talked about how the cokuya in it is going to give it a little bit more unpredictable nature the rough. Would you say that's a fair a fair way to describe it.

Yeah, at least last time. And I know I feel like they've been I just read yesterday. I think they're trying to accentuate they've been trying to bring out the kokoo you like, actually feet to have it as a feature and have less rye grass than the rough, which is kind of the normal US open ruff the rye grass or the blue grass.

The cocuo is really different, like it's a bit more like Zoysier.

It's it's awful really when you get you can get there's really bad lies in it, and it can be so thick and it's like sort of wrist hurting rough. But it doesn't always go to the bottom, I mean quite sometimes it can kind of.

Hover quite up the top.

So you've got these lines where the ball is sitting like a couple of inches in the air, like just floating.

On the grass.

Because it's such a strong grass velcrope, so it's very random what you'll get. But it's a great grass when it's like short, like it's fantastic at Riviera, such a great grass to playoff, Like the ball just sits up and you can get a lot of spin off it. But when it gets longer, it's progressively anything from a really good line in the rough to like the worst lie I've ever seen, So it's going to be sort of randomness.

Does the ball fly a lot when it sits up, like, how does it? You know, I'm thinking, I'm not. I'm a Midwesterner, so my grasses are are pretty just boring, the rye and bent, you know everywhere in blue grass. And is it more like is it like Bermuda where you get that like you get serious jumpers and then sometimes the ball just comes out dead as it can be.

It's not really crazy hot like Bermuda is like Bermuda. Ruff is like super flyer as you say, I wouldn't think of cocoas a really sort of flyer rough, but it does sit above the level of the dirt, if you know what I mean, Like it can sit halfway down the rough because it's such a strong grass. So your real issues are hitting the ball off the middle and not hitting it high on the club face. I feel like usually yet those ones that hit high like

Really like if you tee and higher and up too high.

Yeah, exactly, it's exactly like teening an iron up too high and you're almost roofing it. Yeah, it's it's a brutal grass, but it's I don't know, it's interesting.

It's an a quiet taste. I mean South Africa, that's all they play on.

And in Sydney and Australia there's actually a lot of cocuar grass and then obviously Riviera and some California stuff, so it's quite unique. I think might be an African grass, I'm not sure. But it's very hearty and it's very tough, but it's it's uh tricky winning as long.

Uh speaking of eight, right, you're you're one back. You're really in it at like on the eighth hole, ninth hole on Sunday, you're one back of Westy who it's always the lost story of this of this championship. He's the one that kind of gave it all away that

Pretty narrow. I mean I felt really good about it.

I felt probably more comfortable there because it's two I'd won two years ago. I was probably playing better. I think I felt better about my game, and I don't know it just it was one of those ones where I don't feel like I did much wrong. I hit it the bunker on nine off the tee. The par five and the bunkers that week were the one complaint point I think from the boys, and that it was an instant plug.

Anything that went that means Friday towel compowder.

Yeah, thout Friday eggs. Everywhere they were like towel compounder, you know, moondust. The borders went straight down in it, and I plugged one on nine in the Fairway bunker like it bounced and plugged. It was like a five five hundred and eighty oh part five or something. So it was like I hit it out twenty and now

Of the time.

So I was like a couple of loose t shots. But if they'd just gone on normal lives, I would have been fine, you know. So it's a fine line. It is a very fine line. I mean that week had a feeling of inevitability about it from Saturday night and Tiger chips in on seventeen and then makes a bomb on eighteen, right, I think to kind of go from third last group to last group, like he used just a freak show at getting in the last group on Sunday, and it's like, wow, this is this has

Yeah, a couple of point a couple of bad putts too, you know, a couple.

Of I'd never begrudge anyone a bad part, like deep Deep on Sunday, Saturday Sunday the greens in California, like on the coast. Just the nature of paragraphs. It's just going to be ropy. And when we see you've seen Tiger's worm's eye view a lot of times if it doesn't stay on the ground very much. Yeah, putting stuff on Sundays. Yeah, but it's such a fine line between winning and top it's.

Really like a matter of good breaks or good bounces, Like you get a good bounce here or there, especially with the way the bunkers are oriented, Like I mean, I think this is like something that when you play a course that's really well bunkered and the bunkers are all like right in your driving zone. It's just over seventy two old. You're going to hit it into a couple of them.

You are, and look normally in the us Open, and I know this is one of Mike Davis's things, and I'm sure it's just a general USGA thing. They don't want people to be looked after when they're in the bunker. They want the bunker to be as bad as the rough or worse. It's just, yeah, Tori's got bunkers on both sides of every hole. It feels like you're driving distance very regularly, that farsier sort of style, and it's just, yeah, you're going to miss some, you just are. They're only

But you know that, and that's what does your head in when you.

Play them, like every you start Thursday morning, and you just know you're just going to get unlucky a lot, you know, But you know the whole field's gonna get unlucky a lot.

And I'll tell you handily out the sort of misfortune I get.

Yeah, that's uh so. I don't know if you saw this, if anybody sent you this. Justin Ray, the great statistician, put together put together the stat entering the two thousand and eight US Open at Tory. They're they're here were the best scores of par and majors by players with fifty plus rounds played since nineteen ninety seven. So there

Yeah, it's funny that Tory Open. I shot like one or two under I think in the first round on Thursday, and Doug Ferguson was very excited running up to me. He says, did you know that's the first time you've ever broken par in a round in a US Open. You're the first, you're the first US Open champion whoever won He was open never having a round under par in the US Open.

But I didn't even know that. And then he was very excited on that.

That's a wild stats crazy stat. Yeah, Trevino was like the first guy to win one with four rounds under par and when he wanted a both or O kill.

Really wow, Yeah, I'm not surprised. I mean, it's just impossible to shoot under par.

There.

It was a funny stat though. Yeah, yeah, I played them. I used to love the US.

I just loved the toughness of it. It's just such a I don't know, it's just some people. Yeah, I kind of got off on the how do I make par on this whole Just find a way, you know, Like it's just something about it. And if you get in that right hit space, that's when you do well in US opens. There was plenty of US opens later on that I wasn't in that hit space, and.

It wasn't quite as much fun.

But there's something about that beating the impossible, you know, that's really satisfying.

You know. It's interesting how there are just certain players that are like major players, right, you know, like you they're almost it's almost inevitable for them to be on the leaderboard, whether they win a ton of them or not, like like Xanderschoffley appears to be like this this era is like just major player, Like every major just almost in the bank top ten, and it started when he was a local qualifier at Aarren Hills. But like, is it do you think it's just when when it just

I mean, I think Brooks actually hit on it the other day a little bit that it just captures. I think you play your best when you're paying the most attention and you're the most into it, you know, and most guys who have you get on tour and you become a good player, you've played so much golf even by the time you're twenty five, it's just out and more golf than anyone else in the world. Right, It's outrageous, And it just takes a bit more, I think to

I think some guys like that on some guys don't.

And I think I don't think there's a right or wrong or anything you can do about that. I think some guys a lot that some guys aren't. And Brooks is clearly he's the most like that we've ever seen, isn't he?

I think? And Louis too. Louie's outrageous.

I mean, Louis, He's obviously an unbelievable player, and he's top fifty in the world for the last fifteen years, but he is absolutely at his best in the mages.

He's almost always there.

Yeah for him too, I think it's just like he's so uber talented when it comes to striking the ball that it becomes so clear when the conditions get tougher and tougher, how much, how extraordinarily talented he is from Tea Green, Like you know Atqua, he was like, I mean Saturday or Sunday, it's Saturday. It was very ugly watching him. He was hitting like little like heel cuts out there, but you know he's still getting the ball around.

And also it's like you've got thirty as a pro as a golfer, you've got thirty tournaments a year, and say you're four or five years into your career.

You've had thirty tournaments a year for five years. There are gonna be some that you're into more than others. It's just the nature of it. It's like people who go to work every day and they do the same thing at their desk and they do all their stuff, but they have the big meeting.

With the board once a month.

You don't think they're more on when they've got the meeting with the board than they are just then all that work.

Like, it's just the way it is. Like the major is the meeting with the board or the boss or like that's when you actually have to be at your best, and I think it captures your attention.

I think also the crazy hard setups and the majors also sort of have a great way of exposing like the real abilities, you know, I mean clearly, like the people we're talking about Brooks and Xander and Louis, I mean, they are they have more game than most guys in the world.

And when they're presented a challenge that asks them to hit that have that game, they have it and not everybody does, you know, So there's a bit in that I think as well. It's sort of.

I wouldn't say a talent talent is the wrong word, but like ability exposer, like if you've got all the shots, like the Masters is the best at it.

The Masters is by a long way.

The best at exposing any weakness in your game, and the ones who have the least weakness usually are there at the end, you know. And that's the USG trying to do, you know, trying to weed out the weaknesses and find the strength. And it works on a physical level as well as mental.

I think, yeah, it seems like the USGS is a little bit more heavy handed right in an approach of exposing you know, it's it's almost prescriptive, like you have to be a certain type of golfer versus I think one of the things I've come to appreciate, and this might be something that's changed with you know, modern distances, but if you look at the Masters, it's you don't have to be a bomber to win at Augusta. You know, you've got to kind of be a bomber in the last ten years to win a us Open.

Well, that's the rough and I mean, I think the only mistake the USGA make if you would decide they make a mistake was set up. And as I said, I love the US Ope and all everything about it. But if you were going to take the tactic that a lot of people think, well, they're a big Their only issue is that they try to dictate a score, whether they say they don't or not. They're obsessed with

And as soon as you make it.

Really long rough, you bring a lot more luck into it than you do.

Like an Augusta.

Augusta, you get where you hit it, where you hit it, you hit it there, and you've got to deal with it. The US Open, you can have four guys all hit it in the same spot and they all get four different results, you know. So that's a little bit more fluky. And the irony is that their ideal is to take away chance, you know, and to make it. You know, you hit the right shot, you rewarded you, the bad shot,

It's like they're always trying to protect score. And I don't understand.

I've never understood why as a champion better at even par than he is at eighteen under. I mean when Faldo wins Snandrew's by five and Tiger wins it by nine, Like these are the best players in the world, and this course is is accentuating how good they are. You know, it's amplifying how much better they are than everyone else. Isn't that like finding the best player? But as I said, I loved there's something really masochistic about you as Open, you know, like there's.

Something really enjoyable about the pain you go through.

Sometimes it's that the same. It's not a simulation like you walk up of course they imagine it just just exhausted.

You look forward to whining. You know you are in the last few holes. It's like this other meaning you're going to be there.

I've got all this Start lining up your complaints for the man he asked to play.

This space sucks.

It's nuts, but it's it's it's an enjoyable pain, I guess.

Speaking of someone who lines up their complaints at at USGA. That's how a VisiC was phil a cute one. How much did you catch that? And just you know it's somebody that's this peer group. What was what was seeing that? Like?

Yeah, it was nuts.

That was umble, I mean completely unpredictable. I mean he's gone out of his way his whole career. It feels like to show people he can do stuff that no one else can do, you know, and he's still doing it like it's crazy, and he's done it in a completely unpredictable way, you know, Like I think it goes all the way back to when he's sort of got that arthritis.

Thing, don't you think. And then he started really paying attention.

To food, and he always takes it if he gets into a subject, he seemed to take a deep dive, and he took a real deep dive into the physical side, and then obviously the mental side and the Twitter and Instagram sort of showing off, and I don't know, he's just had a like a it's it's like he was made for this era, you know, of the way everyone is, you know, and he's thriving, and I just think he really loves he loves a challenge, and he's always been amazing at like sort of doing what he says he's

You know. It was just incredible.

I never saw it happen, But then after Saturday when he was going out in the last round, I thought I actually thought he was going to win, just because he's always been impressive. In the last three or four times he played with Tiger on Sundays, he beat him, you know, like he's when he gets up for something, he's up for something, like he's nuts.

It was unbelievable. It's one of the coolest things ever seen.

It was. I was out there watching and it was really a couple of things that were the big takeaways. Was I'd never seen somebody that it seemingly was. He was running a game on Brooks in the final group, Like the piece at which he was playing was just beyond slow, you know, and then he would be yucking it up with the fans and Brooks would be in the fairway like throwing his hands up, you know, and he just it. It kind of made me feel like he was like in a money game, you know, and

Yeah.

Absolutely, Yeah, He's just he's just he's always I wouldn't be surprised if, like you said, he was getting under brooks of skin.

That part of he's his wholem.

O is getting under people's skin, you know, like when he walks in the locker room or he like he's on the rage, especially in a money game, like it's you cannot get him to close his mouth in a money game.

It's unbelievable. Never stops chirping.

Ever dead too. They say, just fowed people around and talked to him the whole round.

He just loved and he's just he's always challenging you, like you can't do this, you can't do that, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

You can't hit it like I can, and all that. So he's just that environment. He's just made for that environment. And as you said, physically like he's the only weakness I think he's ever had is probably the really long stuff, and it can get a bit wild, you know, with the driver and stuff. But his iron player as good as anyone's I've ever seen. Like it's outrageous how good he hits iron shots. And you should see him, as

It's nuts.

He fits your theory about build perfectly in longevity. Yeah, yeah, because that swing is still it's unbelievable how long it still is, you know, like I can't swing like I saw I'll get twenty three, Like I don't know. It's like the fact that he's fifty and still getting it into the positions he's getting into is just unbelievable.

Yeah, I mean, he's an unbelievable athlete.

Like he's uh, I mean, he talks a big game, but he actually really is a I mean, he's always if you've got to wait, he sits on the tee like all cross legged like a yogi and like he looks really comfortable that way, and he's always stretching, and like he's hyper flexible, which is clearly showing to be an advantage when you're fifty, you know, maybe you and I should start stretching a bit more, you know.

You know the thing about stretching. Somebody explained studying to me like this, and it it like, what do you think about studying? It's like the easiest thing of the world is you. All they're asking to do is sit in a chair and read. Right, studying and stretching is so similar. It's like all they're asking you to do is sit on the floor and stretch. But it's it's so difficult to do. I don't understand. And it's just some people got it and some people don't. I don't have to.

I think it's a habit.

I think when we were young and I was frothing on golf and everything, I mean, I'm like just no stone unturned headspace, you know, when you're in that golf headspace, I would watch TV and to stretch, you know, and I'd look for bits of carpet.

Oh that looks like a good spot. I'll go there.

I haven't done that for ages, like when then later on you get into that. I stretch when I go to the gym, and so when you go to the gym, you stretch or a little bit. But I used to just stretch when I saw a bit of carpet, like be in the airport at the gate and I be stretching on the ground, you know, And I think, if.

You can develop, it's just it's a good habit to develop.

I guess I'm going to try try and start the habit tonight.

Good. But it makes you feel good. You do feel better.

It's like it's unbelievable. Yeah, I went on a gym terror like last year, before the before COVID, and I just from stretching before and after in the gym, like ah, sudden, I had so much more flexibility. Life was so much easier.

Yeah you can.

Yeah, I just remember, like later in my career, I was always good at warming up on tour and.

Having a good stretch.

But it's you'd go, I'd go, I'd go home and I'd just go out for a hit at wisp Brock something and just rolls rice it straight to the first tea and you're like warmed up on about the fourth, you know, whereas like the full tour warm up, like your first sandwich feels like fluid and oily, and you could hit a five line straight away, like it's it's very I think it's I.

Don't know how important it is long term.

It seems like it's really important, but it definitely makes a difference like on that day.

All right, let's get into this year's US Open. I put together five things, and I'm curious your thoughts on these five things. Okay, does any non bomber have a chance at toy this year?

You would think no, but Rocco made the playoff last time, so I would say yes.

Don't ask me for which one.

What did Rocco? What did Rocco do so well that week? As Anne bomber, I.

Can't remember, but I think he was obviously hitting a lot of fairways. He can't A non bomber has to hit it straight, That's the only way I mean. And I feel like I see the forecast is kind of warm. That's going to help the non bombers, because if it was one of those chilly, sort of foggy Tory weeks, that just makes it play so much longer. Again, if the sun's out that's warm, like a campsmith or something

Know, short game too, probably right scramble one.

Yeah, because you're going to be coming into holes like twelve. I mean, people who have a been a tory and like play twelve from the Ta week play from.

I mean, it is like it's just outrageous.

Five hundred yards straight towards the ocean on fairways of the border isn't rundon. It's like driver headcover. It's like a hybrid or a three wood or something. For some players in the field, probably second shot, and then Brooks is hitting a seven nine in, so there's a massive difference. You're gonna miss greens such long shots, you know, and they'll be firm, and they're tricky around the greens a

How does it work with the books does the does you know, does that help or does it almost make you more confused? Then?

I don't know. I always got confused by the books, so I never used them. But they're very good. I don't know.

I'm not up with the last I know when they change the rules of the books, the books changed a little bit. They got a bit more chilled out. But a non bomber can definitely win there or contend they're or win, but it's a harder week for them to do it. You know, you can't get away with as much if you're that much further back.

I feel like Bryson last year at Wingfoot. Really, you know, this isn't a situation like you talked about before beth Page. I mean you call that, You're like, nobody that doesn't hit it really far has a chance. So this is different than bath Page.

Definitely, yeah, I mean Bethpage is absolutely one. It's Brooks and Dustin and Rory and that's it. You know, it's just the only way because it's all carry under the green. At Bethpage, if you drive it in the rough, you cannot run it under the green.

You just can't.

They're all surrounded by ruff and grant whereas Tory you can run it under the green, so you've got some chance from further back, but less chance, but doable. I mean there's a lot of great player. Look, there's no real short hitters anymore, is there. I mean a short hitter isit at three hundred yards now?

I mean Brian Gay is out there. Yeah.

Yeah, it's gonna be a tough week for Brian. I Mean's and Zach Johnson and guys. There's a tough week for guys who are actually the short hitters but still doable. I mean Ben Crane won at Tory and the Farmers, which is nuts at that time of year, you know. I mean it was a really impressive effort at that time of year, you know what I mean, because it's normally Barba, Jason Day, Leishman, John Rahm, Tiger Woods.

I mean, these guys like to smash it, you know, always, always.

The summer helps shorter hitters, because like that's what everybody's saying, is like it's so skewed to bombers at the Farmers, But in a way, summer should help shorter hitters a little bit because the ball doesn't go a little bit further for them.

Yeah, and you can roll it up there.

And as I said, the ccuou grass is a adds an element of Maybe the rough isn't all about like power out of the rough, it's like skill, you know, because as I said, it sits at various heights, and there'll be some really thick ones that are all about power, but there'll be some other ones it's all about sort of understanding lies and skill and stuff.

So I mean, I don't know. Yes, it doesn't have to be Oboma probably will be that.

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US Open, there's a little bit well, they vary.

There is a little bit of a different feel I think, but they're all very unique. I mean, like the say, the four publics that come to mind, It's like pebble, which is pebble, so that that doesn't has a.

Feeling of its own, right. Pinehurst that's pretty unique too.

That feels different from an Oakmont or a boltus Roll or Marion or something. They definitely feel like old school, you know, those ones at the old sort of real private places. Pinehurst, Chambers Bay that felt really random and weird. That didn't feel like a US Open at all, except that the scores were like a US Open. You know, even though I didn't, I did kind of enjoy the champions.

You know, we're all there every January or February.

We've all played there, the whole field has almost played a ton of tournaments there, so it's kind of like coming back to where you come every year anyway, So it does have a different feel about it.

That was one of my five things. Is you know, with it being a regular tour stop, does it do you think it gives younger players an advantage or does it favor older players? You know, does it favor younger players because there's less to figure out at this US Open than say you know, if you were going to Oakmont.

Probably it's interesting actually in it because if you go normally, very often you get to a major and the whole field has never played the course, or they only played it. In this case, it would be thirteen years ago, you know, or it was.

Like this or a USAM or something.

Yeah, whereas this one, the whole field has probably played the course. I mean not only in the tour tournament, but like the Junior World and stuff that a lot of kids have been playing. I mean, Film's been playing there since he was in like five or something like.

Crazy like, did you play that Junior World thing?

Never did No, I don't know. I don't remember it being on my radar.

Maybe my parent It was just not on my radar because we couldn't afford it. I didn't There wasn't a lot of kids going over from Australia at that time. I know they started going later on. But anyway, this is I think it's an advance. It's always going to

Of tournaments here.

I know toy, Yeah, but you don't know it as well as these guys who have played it that much, you know. But there's there's another side of that, in the it's completely different. If you've only ever played it in the Farmers, then you think Tory Pines is that, But when you get there this week, it's completely different.

Like it's the same cause, but it's a lot firmer.

It's the greens are going to be completely different the way they are set up by the USGA. The rof's going to be different. It's going to be like watch more cuckoo summer grass and less winter grass. It's going to be firmer. So it's going to be a completely

I don't know, I don't know.

It's a funny one because this is the cause that probably most professional golfers, at least who play golf in America have played the most.

So it's an interesting one to have.

A major at always a great field in February, you know, like that's it'd be like if they went to Riviera. Like Riviera, this one you generally have like the best players playing it.

Yeah, always, and I don't look, it was never my favorite one, but you would always play it.

Because it was the first real test, like your test.

It's always I mean, San Diego is a great place to be and the weather's always perfect, but it was pretty chilly, like it's in the fifties and sixties when you play kind of a damp toy at that time of year, and it was a real sort of exposure of your weaknesses, if you like, at the start of the year.

So it was good to sort of put in the mix.

And Tiger kind of made it, at least in my era, Tiger made it what it was because he played it. It was his first tournament every year usually and he'd always win it. And it had great atmosphere because it was there and you'd stay in Del Mar Orcelana Beach for the week and it's just a fantastic week.

So you get a good field. So it's it's one of the first ones that all like a lot of.

The Europeans will come over and play that one first, you know, the big time guys. It usually gets the best players. So I don't know, this is something about toy that's attractive. I think it's the San Diego. You're on the ocean, even though it's probably not everybody's favorite course, everybody loves playing a tournament there.

Have you ever gone, hang guy, No.

That looks ridiculous.

What they do is but you're out of the twelfth green the whole course, like along the thing, like you're putting on the or you're playing four the long one back along the cliff and you're on the green and some guy just pops up from below you. Yeah, Like the first thing is you see is the parachute thing all there? Or hang on and he's just like where is this guy's down there? And he just pops up and they're like forty meters from your head. They're just

I don't know how it works the first time. How do they do it the first time? It's like, mate, just put this thing on your back and run and you'll be fine. Don't worry about it, Like who's doing that?

I thought I was wondering about When I sat out there last time. I was played with a guy that'side the rules comvitee of the USGA, and I told them, listen, you gotta be careful about these hand gliders. I think they could really impact the championship. I mean they're like flying, they're buzzing tower. When you're on four, you know, right.

There, they right there.

I think the thing that times in the pro am and people always try to explain how it works, like the water cup, the wind come or the air comes along and it hits the cliff and the air goes up right, so there's an updrive as soon as they came over. If they came over the fourth aairway, they would just fall out of the sky. So they have to stay in that sweet spot. But it's and they're.

Silent, like you cannot hear it.

Like it's just it's nuts. It looks really fun, but it's not something that I would. I just can't imagine just running off the cliff and hoping that the kite worked.

Like what, well, yeah, I mean that's the thing. The cliff does that look like a it's a very jagged cliff, Like it's just out look like if you hit any part of that cliff, you're you're gonna end up with like a good device. I bed too, Like one of the things I noticed was the shadow. Like also down of nowhere, you'll have a shadow just go right over you.

Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, for sure they put you off.

For sure you cat them because they're kind of up here in your headspace, in your eyeline, and like they're flying there all the time. And if it's like perfect weather and it's like that sort of day, there's like twenty of them just going.

Down and back.

They just go up and back the cliff, like up and down that fourth hole sort of you know, like, yeah, it's nuts. I don't know if they have air traffic control or like how they get out of each other's way and stuff. But yeah, it could be a bit off putting, but it's so the whole setting there is off putting.

You spend your whole day at Tory just staring at the Pacific.

You can't help it because you can see the Hoyer over there and like just checking the surf and is their waves and like it's just such a stunning view. Almost Pebble is attractive because of the land that's next to the ocean, how jagged and rugged and the course and stuff. Tory, it's just the ocean. You just can't stop looking. They're so massive, you know, it's I don't know, you're distracted all day. That's kind of part of the charm, I guess.

And then you have the fighter jets too.

Fighter jets all day, Yeah, relentless likes relentless. It's like top gun all day, which is cool too. Like, I mean, I don't know who doesn't like watching those things. They're very noisy, and I guess they get annoying after a while, but there's still a thrill to see every time, right, Like it's crazy.

Is there a shot out there that you think about more than you know? Like what's the shot or the hole that's kind of in the back of your mind throughout the round.

I always really struggled on fifteen. I think fifteen is one of the harvest holes in the world. Like it's just all the trees up the left. I think there's less trees in there were, but there's still to all the trees up the left, and you're just always in the right ruff behind that tree. There's a little tree

Twelve. Well, going all the way through three is a really scary.

Shot, especially when it's over the left, when.

The tea's over the left and the pins over the left.

I don't know, it's a one eighty, but it's playing one forty, you know, but it's blowing a little bit and it's just yeah, that's you just you can't get the ball on the ground fast enough, but that hole doesn't allow you have to hit it in the air.

Yeah, it's a scary one. Four was tough. I don't know. Fifteen was my nemosis though. Struggle with fifteen.

All right, Bryson and Brooks.

Bryson and Brooks.

This is this is gonna be one of the fat things to watch. Have you ever seen anything like this?

No? Not really.

I mean there was kind of there's always small scale feuds on tour. You know, someone who got a penalty because someone was playing slow, And there was like the Sabatini like playing the last hole at Congressional when Brent Crane was still putting it on seventeen.

I don't know if you remember that one.

Then you Sabatinian taker too.

Yeah. So, I mean there's been little ones like that, but they just sort of the public got a glimpse of what going on, but no one really shared what was going on, you know what I mean. This one's actually like they're publicly having a bit of a spat. Like I don't know, it's just the way the world is now, you know what I mean, Like I don't know, Like the Brooks is like pattern is to just I'm going to win, and I don't like any of you guys.

And I don't know, it's just accentuating that.

I don't know.

I think it's all in good fun.

I think it's it's just the world now exposes this stuff now because of social media and stuff.

Right, everything's caught on camera.

And I think the interesting thing this week too is like if you were going to put together like two US Open players in a lab, like that's kind of who you'd come out with, right, Like those guys are are really built for these turbines, and it you know, the PGA Tours probably the only professional sports league that would shy away from pairing these two people, like, you know, you imagine like the NFL not having Bears at Packers be a primetime game because you know, or the you know,

Yeah, yeah, it'd be great on the weekend. I think it would be doing a disservice to the rest of the players in the field on Thursday and Friday, because can you I mean, the way crowds are now, crowds are a little bit more vocal than they used to be.

You know, social media I think drives that it's changed.

I'm sure.

I mean in my in my era, the Phoenix Open changed from a cheerful, loving love a day at the golf to like, I'm going there to yell and cuss at golfers.

You know, it's just it changed, and which.

Is fine, But can you imagine what the fans would be like if bryce I mean, it would just be relentless all day and there'd be other groups around having to hear it and listen to it, and it would be just it'd become a bit of a sideshow, and I think golf needs to be the center of things. I think Brooks and Bryson would handle it fine. I think that'd be all business and that's just what you do, you know. But I think the fans would potentially it would be too good an opportunity for them to open

What do you think about the PIP, the Player Impact Program And we haven't even toxic as they just stituted it.

I don't know.

I started my golf career thinking that it was all about merit. Whoever plays the best should get the most rewards. This is a contest, after all, you know. And by the end of it my thoughts had sort of changed a bit, and I think entertainment is a big part of this. I mean, we get paid obnoxious amounts of

You know?

But you know, how are they deciding it? Like how do you how do you like sit around in a room and decide who you want to pay that? It just seems a little bit like rich people paying rich people in the way that it's going to be done. But the idea of it, I don't mind sitting on.

The fence well enough, I think that's good. I think one of the things I think about it is that I think it's gonna go under more iterations and revisions than the FedEx Cup did through the first like six years. I mean, every year, this thing's gonna be it's gonna be a moving target. You know what how they how they rewarded who they pay because and then it's like what's a positive versus a negative social reaction? Like was

You know, Well, that's it.

They're only gonna go from my feeling, part of ved is only going to go for positive stuff, right, But the positive stuff seemingly isn't going to have the impact that the negative stuff does.

Right.

So I don't know, I don't know how you decide who gets it.

I think clearly there are people who are bringing forty million dollars worth of value or more with their social you know what I mean, Like clearly, if you're add it all up, if you're add it all up, that's just a percentage of what is being brought into the umbrella of the tour.

Really if you add everything up, but.

Yeah, conditioning how you you can bring popularity in with this, but only this way. You know, Bryceon and Brooks are really add bringing eyes to golf, but it won't be in the way that they want them to be doing it.

But do you do you take that into account?

I don't know, that's it. I think one of the things too, is like with the way golf set up, if you compare it to any other major sports league, the highest, the best players are underpaid, drastically underpaid, and the number or say seventy five to one twenty five is drastically overpaid compared to the you know, guys that

Yeah, it seems a bit sort of random of gry. It's a gray it's how you do that. Yeah, I don't know, but you're right. The golf is very democratic in how sort of it spreads the wealth, you know, But.

Saying that it's a sport, I don't know. I'm sure it's probably the same and aary other sport, But golf just seems to be that the five hundredth best golfer in the world is really not that far away from being top ten, you know, like he's immediately really really good. So it's nice to look after guys who were like that good. I don't know if every other place is.

Probably I think my buddy is ranked like four sixty eight. He's on the Cord Ferry Tour and he makes no money. He loses money most.

Yeah, and that's not how good he is, probably, you know, I mean, you're on it's crazy, you know, you're beating almost everybody in the world, you know.

All right, last last thing here by five things list the quest for two majors. I got. I got these guys listed down, and I'm curious, as a one time major winner, how much does a second major win? And I got written in here, Like you got your younger guys JT, Bryce and Morikala Hideki, and then you got your older guys Louis, Sergio, Scott Rose. Those are ones that just kind of jumped to mind. Obviously you got Gary Woodland too, But I just I have a hard

Yeah, I mean, look, it's interesting. I mean the first group, who are we with j T?

Colin Brayson?

You think all those guys probably have more in them, you know, JT and Colin especially. I feel like Bryson, you feel like he's clearly I mean he could win five or ten.

I mean, who knows.

I mean he's so talented and so good, but he's also a guy it could go missing from periods just of the way he goes about it. I feel like he's going to be great or he's going to be struggling. I feel like is that I don't know if that's fair or not. But and he's got that game, I mean the way he did it at wing Foot, like no one's going to beat that guy if he plays like that.

You know.

The thing that's so interesting too, is like I feel like we get in this habit of being like, oh, he'll get another one, or he'll get one, But we put so many guys in that bucket and there's only four of them a year.

There are four a year, And I found from him my experience I played, there was something there's something more. There's something easier about majors before you've won one, in a way, because there's almost like I always felt there was less pressure and less expectation before I won one.

Once I won one, there was more my more self put on X expectation, and that always made it harder. I found easier in a way because you know you've done it, and you know all the guys around you haven't done it. Maybe and you feel better about it. But I don't know, there's an element of it that I put more pressure on myself going to a major. Oh, you're supposed to play well in this, because you always play well in this, you know, Like I found it a bit more difficult.

So I don't know.

Did you see the Patrick Harrington quote before the PGA that was like experience, he said. I think he said experience isn't all it's cracked up to be. When you gain experience, you lose innocence.

Yeah, I actually thought that quote was really Yeah, it was thoughts that had been through my.

Head for sure.

I mean, that's like one of my favorite golf quotes I've ever heard.

Well, it goes back to you, like your your favorite music analogies and stuff in it.

I mean, the first album, you've.

Had your whole you've had your whole life to write your first album, But the second one is a lot harder. You know, it's the same, like you've you've had this fire burning in you since you were a kid, or since whenever it lit, and you win that first major. Duval is the most famous one that I can remember. Like he was on the plane on the way back, sort of nursing the cleric jug on his lap, and he's like, is this all there is?

Like is this what I was actually dreaming about? Like this is great but like empty? Yeah, Like, and I think that what happened to guys.

You see a lot of guys Aisinger and these guys who just.

Burn Sergio a little bit.

Sergio, Yeah, just burned, just burned to win that first one, and then they do and it's like, oh, yeah, that's cool, done that now, like and fire goes out a little bit, you know. So I don't know, Colin, Colin and JT seem to be guys who are going to be top ten, top fifteen in the world their whole career. They're going to fall into a few you would think, you know, I mean, JT is so good. I haven't played with

Other guys, jeez, it would be great to see I mean, it'd be great to see Scotty or Rosie or who was the other one.

Louis.

Louis to me is the most deserving out of those four that you said, because he's there every single mate. I mean, he's he's finished second and he's like the Grand Slam of seconds, you know, like it's just crazy attitude.

He's an attitude about it just is like he just seems like the best guy to play golf with because you know, if you beat him, he's just going to be a great guy. You know, like to sing that song. He did it from the jet after one of us, like you know, after he did the Grand Slam, like just the best attitude of the world.

He's a goose. He's so fun.

He's the funnest guy in the Presidents Cup, like locker room, he is so much fun.

Like he is loose, you know, but.

He is an unbelievable competitor, Like if you've got in between, like when him and Gracie or him and Charla are out there in those things, it's like he's as competitive as anyone I've ever met. But he seems to be able to just flick the switch and not take it too seriously, you know, like he's got that great, that great headspace where he's all in but not taking it seriously.

Like it's a bit like DJ, you know, like similar different personalities, but that same sort of I'm all in, you're not going to beat me today, But when you do, shake hands and all let's go have a bit. How fun was that? You know? Like I don't know how you do that.

Most guys carry it for like three days and break their hand in the locker room or something.

They're just laughing about it.

But I'd love to see I think he's the most deserving of that older group, just because he's had so many close calls in majors and.

He never really gives them away.

He just always seems to get out played by somebody, you know, like just who's having a better week and him, you know, he just got caught up in the Michelson show, like at Kiwa, you know, no feeling he might win that one, and lots of other ones. I don't know, but like Scotty, Who's I mean Scotty, Rosie and Sergio all they would be massively popular winners right especially at Tory, like if there's anywhere really because they're all hit pretty

Pros, especially especially the later in the day.

Especially later in the day, I mean Augusta and Oakmont and that they're famously fast and stuff, But that's different the ball stays on the ground, and it's different, but it's you've got to have that putting mindset that Speeth Snedeker, Fax and sort of Tiger Woods putting mindset on those greens, and it's almost always a guy, uh you know, So it's gonna be tough for those guys Sergey and Scotti especially because that's, as I said, it's a putting mindset, like you never know.

I'd love to see him win. That'd be great. I mean, all any one of those players you mentioned, it'd be great. So you win.

Yeah, Louis is so interesting because he gets this bad rap about like he doesn't care. You know. There's like the famous story about like the agent saying like if he if I could just get him to care as much about his about golf as he cares about his tractors and farm like. But like part of me like thinks that's like that's how he's gotten over all these close calls. It just keeps coming back, is because he's done with golf. He's gone, you know, it's over.

I think, I mean, I think sometimes that that's just a gift. It's actually there's a bit of jealousy and that that he can be that in and not care like, but it isn't not caring. It's like Dustin. I think Dustin has the is the perfect headspace for a golfer. He had a quote last week that was brilliant. It's like, I don't know, I just hit the ball and see.

Where it goes.

Where it is, and that's his that's his how, that's his book. Like it's I just hit the ball and see where it goes. That that's perfect. Though. We all sort of laugh and like think, oh, he's not really trying. But he actually is trying as hard as anybody. He's just not taking it.

It's just not life or death, and he's telling he's telling exactly what he's thinking.

Yeah, like we all treat it as life or to Even Tiger used to treat it his life or death a little bit like it was so serious, you know, it's like all the way down and so it works, but it seems to be taxing on the headspace. DJ and lewis like.

Walking on air when they walk around there, and they probably have longevity because of it's just not that.

Look, it isn't life or death. I'm having a great time here and I'm going to beat you. But if I don't, oh well I'll get you next time. Nicholas was like that.

Jack used to be like the first guy to congratulate the guy had just beating him, you know, and he walk off with him in arm and arm and smiling and stuff like, well done, mate, that was fun.

You want to do it again next week?

Like that's the spirit, I think, and those guys have got it.

It's a very rare attribute to be able to be like that.

People get it well. It's a beautiful thing when it's a game that ninety nine percent of the time you fail, Like that's the thing choose you up and spits you out almost every single time. And like to have the headspace to just be like oh whatever, like you know, like the rumors are like DJ after so many of these close goals, was just like buying the next day. It's like that that's enviable.

It's because the golf is the fun part for them, right, Like they're just loving the contest, you know, once the contest is over, it's like it doesn't really matter. The fun part was actually doing it, Like it's not walking home with the Truman Dust's probably got trophies still in boxes. That he hasn't got out. You know, he's just not doing it for the trophies. He's not doing it for the money. I mean the money, it all is about it. He's just doing because he loves doing it, you know.

I mean, you all wish we could be like that, right, just enjoy golf for golf and whatever I have. Then we'll just laugh about it afterwards, you know. Incredible.

Yeah, for like the country club hack, just like imagine really like oh, you know, okay, enough up championships. You could tell that most people don't really enjoy the club championship. They feel like they have to play, but then they get in the ring and they're just like, oh this is I did not enjoy this, Like you know, it's like think about just going to enjoy the joy the match and the pressure.

You know, yeah, that's really the match.

I mean, the sacred sources being more relaxed the more competitive it gets, right, you know, like Freddy and Dustin and Louis is like they just they're more in their element.

You know, it's just amazing.

Do you do you agree? Like I don't, you know, I think sometimes the telcast, the pressure has made too much in the tournament. Like I feel like where the big pressure points are are at the start of a tournament and getting it home in a round, right, Like when you're on like the thirteenth hole, your pressure levels way less than when it was on the first tea, Right, Yeah.

I mean I think like it, especially if you're talking major, but any tournament, really the real pressure points are before you start the whole tournament, first t first tea. Every day Friday afternoon, if you're on the cut line, is

Like even in the US Open, contending or in the Masters or anything like that, you have key sort of pressure moments, you know, like the t shirt on twelve or something, or the Masters or something clearly is like a pressure moment.

But playing the fourteenth and the thirteen of the fair, I mean it's not ultra pressure. They're getting the last couple of holes, last hole, holding that put for par on seventeen to get to be still tired on the last there's little points.

Yeah, the last part is always tough.

The last part is always tough because you've always given yourself the score, right, like you're going out the last year three under.

It's like, oh, if I birdie this, I can shoot sixty eight and you have that little twelve. It's like, well sixty at least I have sixty nine, just two part of this, and you know the three feet passes that three foot of his sixty. Oh god, look that's the longest reefoot all day, just even though it doesn't even matter, like it's just yeah, it's all self inflicted, all that pressure, all of it amazing.

All right, what's uh, what's your pick? Who's your peck? What's your wood score?

All right?

Well, I would have ram as my favorite, I think now, who knows what he's been up to the last two weeks. Obviously compromised preparation in a way, but the guy is like, if I was going to build a golfer for Tory Pines, it would be him, and I'd pick him over the other bombers because of his short game.

Is better.

I think at those really freaky shots around the greens, I think he's just got that flare that sort of would suit of you as open.

So I'll pick Ram.

And the last time he played, he was six in front after three rounds, you know, so he's clearly playing pretty well and he's won there before.

Chofle.

Clearly Rama would be my pick, but i'd give vulnerable mentions to Chofle. I think Louis will do well and the smoky would be like Sung j Sung Jim for my long shot. Because he's gonna win one. I'll just pick him as my long shot until he's not a long shot anymore.

You know.

He's he's so good he's going to win one for sure. And Mats the armor I'm sure has inspired even that's a different it's a completely different country, it's still sort of inspired and shown sort of South Korea is going to win a pile of majors, I would think over the next twenty years, you know, and he might be like the next guy to do it.

Yeah. I was doing some kJ Choi research and it was crazy. He had that high finish in the Masters. I want to say, in like early two thousands, it was first, like really good major finish, and a reporter asked him, you know, how big is this back in South Korea and he goes, I don't know where did

Yeah, the women are playing their fifth best tournament that week. Yeah, uh, Japan's are same. I mean the Japanese ladies do it, has thirty five or forty tournaments, and they're massive and they play for more than the guys over there, So it's it's a more balanced sport over there were balanced the other way, like it's out of balance the other way. But yeah, I don't know, I think san Jay is nuts.

Yeah, it's a just it seems like, well this Higo guy, you guys got papeline for the President's Cups team.

I know, yeah, we'll see, we'll see. I mean, I think we're doing so much better in that event. And not that we haven't had the talent. But if you look at the first couple of President's Cup teams we had, I mean it was Norman Price, El's v. J Elkington, Like it was like half the top ten in the world, you know at the time, Like if we had half and we don't have that now, if we had half the top ten in the world now, I think we'd really be.

Competitive, you know. So this kid, he looks good.

He's won five times and twenty starts or something and he's just turned pro.

I remember we met him, and I didn't remember until the other day because I saw all the pictures, but he was at the Junior President's Cup in New York, Like at the start of the week at Liberty Nashville. The Junior President's Cup team plays at another venue. But then they come and like hang out with us for a day and stuff, and it's like there were little kids.

It feels like, you know, and he's like two years later he's won on two four years later now and he's went on too.

It's cool to see.

Yeah, it's wild.

That course looks cool. That k Connery looked awesome.

It's got some neat stuff it's got some other stuff where I'm kind of like eh. But the thing that's amazing about it, it's like rock hard and fast all the time, which is, you know, just a delight to play. Yeah, it's the best, especially you go in the shoulder season. It's dormant too. It just eyes out there.

Dormoma is great fund to play on. It amazing almost dormant, semi dormant.

You know that's sort of not completely yellow and not grabbing, but like that halfway through that thin sort of firm ROLLI it's almost a bit like links turf, a little.

Bit cool place to hang out too. But uh, hey, thanks for coming on. I don't know who I'm picking at. I I was between Brooks and Bryson and ive Rom and my water does I got I haven't done a good job of pace to come out, But uh, I think one of those three to me, I mean, I think DJ to DJ did exactly what you like to see, Like I think I don't if I and I don't know how you feel about this. If I'm in contention the week before a major and I'm a big player,

It's pretty rare. And yeah, I don't know, Like, I don't know what you do. You don't try to not.

Win, obviously, but maybe you're not really paying quite as much attention as you want to a normal time.

I don't know. Yeah, DJ made that late tripler. I think you might have just said I don't want to win.

This look can win anyway, you can taste it up.

And tory is of course, it is an act made in heaven for someone like DJ.

So her putts well on power too, he does other thing. So all right, thanks for coming on and we'll talk to you soon.

No, it sounds good, thanks man,