I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball.
In a bright egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida Egg, fridagg.
Brid egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today I'm thrilled to be joined by the legendary Jim Bones Mackay. Jim joins us to talk about kind of the golf world, the golf season as well as the Ryder Cup. He will obviously be covering it as part of the NBC's team, and he also also recently just created some content with aon called The Best Page Course Insights, which is live on
the Ryder Cup YouTube channel at Rydercup dot com. Slash aon that's live and available for everybody to go watch on Monday, August eighteenth, So check out Bones is a series there on the Ryder Cup page. But we're really thrilled to have them on to just chat about the golf season and everything ahead. So before we get to Bones, let's take a quick break to talk about our partner Viory. Viory makes some of the best athleisure clothes that I've
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lot of weeks of on site coverage. You blink and all of a sudden, another golf calendar is somehow over. We're at the end of here, of of you know, the big events of twenty twenty five. What to you to to you what's been the resounding the big takeaway from this season so.
Far that you know, certainly, you know, Rory getting over the hump in the fashion that he did at Augusta National and winning the Masters and obviously the career Grand Slam, you know, with immense weight on his shoulders, I thought was a huge story relative to this year and the reminder that Scotty Scheffler is the best player in the world.
You know what that guy.
Does week in week out, the way he does it, the way he plays, the Nicholas way about he goes about doing, you know, take care of his craft is just never ceases to blow me away.
So certainly they're the two big stories for me.
And you know, certainly as we head into the latter part of the year and certainly the Ryder Cup, looking for the emergence of or the re emergence of a couple of guys that could potentially help that team a lot.
I you know, the next couple of weeks are going to be big for the American Ryder Cup team, and there's I think a little bit of uncertainty at the back end. I think if you compare it to the European team, it doesn't It almost feels, especially with Matt Fitzpatrick's resurgent play, it feels like there's very maybe one spot available on the European team versus the American team. It's going to be fascinating to see what happens with
the back end of it. You know, we're relatively fresh off of Scotty's performance at at the Open, which you had a a front seat to. You've had a front seat to you know, the player that he's getting compared a lot to these days. Tiger Woods, you were inside the ropes, you know, going going duking it out with him in his heyday. You know, if you were, you know, you obviously have seen so many of the so many great players the last you know, thirty plus years in golf.
What is it about Scotty that is that kind of separates him and puts him in this ascending kind of class of player that he seemingly is is quickly going up the ranks of.
For me, it's where he gets to mentally.
He looks like a guy out there when he's playing, who's got you know, nothing bothering him hit him in the world other than the task at hand, you know, on the golf course, on that.
Particular golf hole that day.
He strikes me as a guy that has you know, very little baggage in terms of you know, what he brings to.
The golf course.
He's supremely confident and and and he it's fascinating to watch him go about his business. I mean, I mentioned Nicholas a couple of minutes ago, and that's the guy I compare him to, you know, quite a bit in terms of the way he goes about his business, and he's it's just head down and and you know, walk to the green, you know, hit your putt, go to
the next tea, go through your process. With Ted Scott, I covered him for three of the three three fifty four holes at the at the Open Championship, and and we never spoke once. You know, he's he's that kind of just you know, you're you know, as an encourse reporter, you tend to have the occasional conversation with players here and there. Scott, he's, you know, so plugged in, he's he's just doing his thing, and I don't I completely leave him alone when we're out there, and it's fascinating
to go about seeing it. And you know, you talk about, you know, the comparisons potentially to Tiger Woods. You know, Tiger you know, they're different in the way they go about their business. And as I said at the Open Championship, I didn't think in my lifetime i'd see a player that I would be as as willing to say, Gosh, this guy's you know, you know he's close to Tiger. He's certainly not Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods is the best player I've ever seen and probably will see it will
be through the course of my lifetime. But Scotty, you know, he's an amazing, amazing player. And I got called out on social media about a year ago for saying I thought that Scotty could get to ten majors, and I'm sticking with it, you know, after him picking off two this year, he's at four and I think there's a great chance he could get to double digits.
It's it's amazing what what the multi win seasons do for your totals. There's so few, the scarcity of majors only being four a year, and they're being you know, you figure in the elite rung of golfers, there's thirty players that are you know there their seasons are there
twenty We'll say twenty players their seasons are in. Their success of their seasons really kind of dependent on how you perform in these four weeks, right, And when you pick off two, it's the leaps like it kind of probably sounds a little bit obvious, but then when it happens, you're like, wait, Scotty just went from two to four. Yeah, and it's like if you get two next year, He's at six, you know, and you know, I think the the number of players that have won multiple majors in
multiple years is extremely small. You know something you know, you're you have obviously very unique experience in this and something that stood out to me this major season with Scottie. You know, I think a lot of people talk about is his strategy and you know, his target selection and how he plays very smart. But beyond just like the target selection, I think something that stood out and it
really resounded. It was Saturday on the fourteenth hole, Kay, they had that backflag, Yes, and that's probably you know, one of the scariest approach shots on that golf course, and you know you're you're having to deal with you know, you know, elevation change, a very narrow green that's shedding balls, and a back flag that's just naturally hard to get at.
Yeah, fairway slips from right to left, yep, And.
You think about, like you know, these players everybody talks about like smart targets, smart targets, there also is like an aspect of that doesn't get talked about as much as the commitment to your target and the the confidence to to swing freely with the target. Like I think what these great players and you you way more experienced with this, but you have a target. But then you also in the back of your mind have like I'm bailing here.
Yeah.
Like to me, what stands out about Scotty beyond just like the target selection is that once he selects a target, I feel like he swings freer than everybody else in the world where his confidence of and obviously has a lot of reason to be company he's the best iron player in the world, but the ability to just like hit shots at these very well placed targets and and go at these that are scary shots like he's not He doesn't bail out like a lot of players do in those situations.
Completely agree. It's uh, I think some of that. You know, certainly Ted Scott's not hitting a shot out there, but I think it speaks volumes for that relationship and the trust they have at each other in terms of picking out you know, said targets. But but you're exactly right. You know Tiger was the same way, and that you know people gave you know, Phil Mickelson a really hard time back in that era for you know, overly aggressed
to play. And you know that you can argue yes or no on many things that went on in Phil's career. But certainly, you know, I thought Tiger was a guy that was, you know, quite a bit more aggressive than people ever gave him credit for, if you will, and and of course pulled off the shots as you're referring relative to Scotty. But to your point, I think that's
that's very well said that Scotty. You know, he'll take on take on that target, get it back there to that flag on fourteen, and you're referencing and give himself a look.
It's it's like almost a conservative with their targets, but extraordinarily aggressive.
With their commitment to the target.
And I think that's like an underrated aspect of the shot, is.
The commitment to the target? You know, yes, just.
While we're here, you know, with your experience catting in these different generations, how is how is the strategy of how players move a round a golf course changed over thirty years?
Well, it's I felt like it certainly changed a little bit when the square grooves were outlawed, and chipping, you know, for some guys at least became a little bit tougher than it had previously been in terms of short sighting yourself. But I think with the advent of you know, these devices now that you know, like like like do with with track Man and with the quad, that that these guys have this incredible feedback now in terms of you know, how far they're hitting the ball, how far the ball
is going on the range. You know it rained rained last night, and you know the error is a little heavy this morning, and the ball's not going quite as far. I think that with with the the information they have at hand, it gives them a little bit of a of an edge in terms of getting it flags maybe you couldn't have in past generations. It's a really really
good question. I think that that certainly we're seeing, you know, players come out of college now with better short games than they did you know, maybe a generation ago, and guys aren't quite as scared of certain flags as they had been previously. But it's it's it's a it's a great point that you make relative to guys kind of getting after it a little bit more than we're used to seeing.
Yeah, the the young players, I I I guess one of the things with young players, I do think like that there's like you see it with with the open sometimes is like when you get a little bit more nuanced of of a test, that's where where you know, the youth kind of shows. But for the most part, with the with the way the PGA Tour operates, it just you know, it's it's never been you know, it's it's wildly I think some of its talent, you know,
an immense talent layer. But I think that you know, the the riddle of playing PGA Tour golf has been you know a little bit simplified over over the over the years.
Yeah, I would completely agree with that. And the talent we're seeing coming out of college these days is crazy. A buddy mine's currently working some events for Jackson Coyven and he was telling me, you know, just how incredibly good this young man is, who I think is going to be a junior in college is coming year and certainly a player at Cyprus Point and the Walker Cup this fall, and a good guy to keep an eye on.
But these guys are showing up and finishing top ten and you know, borderline contending with what Luke Clinton did last year.
It's amazing to see.
Yeah, you know, what's you're always reminded to is who's the best at twenty one isn't going to be who's the best at twenty five? Always, right, you know, sometimes you get those generational stars and you know, who the best at twenty five doesn't necessarily mean they're going to
be the best at age thirty. And you look at like the most recent example would have been that Matt Wolf Matt Wolf, Victor Hovlin colin Morrikawa where they all burst on the scene at the same time and it's like, you know, they all won in short order, they all, you know, and and then it looked like marikw is gonna, you know, be the best, and he's got like a
very nice head start. But now it's like, you know, Hovland and him, and you know who ends up having the next best five years and and you see this over like the arc of careers, like I think Phil and Ernie Els had this you know, twenty five year run where you know, you could have all these different arguments and Phil's you know, Fill's long overall long term longevity, you know, kind of probably pushes him past in most
people's books Ernie. But then that early part of the career, Ernie had the majors that Fill didn't have and you know, it's it's a you know, one of the things with like Clanton in and is like there are these other guys that got their cards to Gordon Sargeant and David Ford and and like you've heard nothing about David Ford and that makes me almost wonder like maybe he ends up being the best because nobody's talking about him, right, and it's because like he he was the best player
in the PGA Tour, you rankings. It's it is a young part of the game, and Koyven and you know from a lot of people, people will say coy even might be the best of all of them. And you know, from what I've gathered, it's it's the driver and the putter that are just at a different level than than most people, you know, most young golfers. Where he's driving it, you know, extremely dominant and and it.
Will be really fun.
You know.
I think like what's been nice with you know, Golf Channel over the you know, recent years, has been the increased college uh and amateur coverage, both on the men's and women's side.
Yeah, are you going to the are you going to the Walker Cup?
I am? I am, It's I'm pretty excited about that. It's I'm unfortunately not going to be in town for the Amateur, which will be you know, fun to watch at uh at at Olympic Club, a golf course. I think that that is it. That is a you know what, I want to play Olympic Club every day. No, But do I enjoy watching championship golf at Olympic Club. Yes, because the shot the shot demands are so high out there. Yeah, so I'm not I will be at the Walker Cup though, that's are you going to be there?
Yes?
It was you know, the way my schedules set out in terms of NBC events, it's pretty much falls into place where I'm going to work. But when I got back to work there at NBC after catting for a spell, one of the first things I did is ask that I could work this this you know, Walker Cup at Cyprus Point. I'm a huge It's my favorite golf course of all time, and and I just can't wait to be to be uh bed on property that week.
It's gonna be incredible.
What uh what makes it your favorite course? Like? What are what are your favorite aspects of Cyprus?
Well, I think just the just the property every time I'm there, and I've had a chance to play it
quite a few times. I can't believe there's a golf course on that piece of land and you play and you just have the best time, and of course you've got you know, the holes that take you out, you know, and you play in the trees there for a few holes, and then you come out on you know, seven, eight, nine, ten and all that and play away and then head towards the ocean and ultimately you're having this amazing day and you get to fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen, You're like,
are you kidding me? These have to be the three greatest holes in the world, back to back to back, And I just think it's beyond special. I love the way the club operates. Casey Riemer, the pro there, is one of the great guys in the business, you know, in the in the in the golf industry that is. And I just love absolutely everything about that golf club.
I think it's like impossible to be in a bad mood there. I've noticed I usually play really well, and I think it's because like I'm just like in a in a state of bliss. Yeah, It's like I'm probably a sign of like, why the the way my mentality should be every round I play golf, But like there, it's like I'm just like in this like state of euphoria and I play well. You know, in terms of the competition, I can't think of like a better hole for match play late in around than whole sixteen. I mean,
that's gonna be amazing. I mean that you get that wind coming in off the left and you're hitting lumber into that thing, and it is you can't miss short right. It's that that hole I think gets harder every time you play it.
I agree with you. I know it's got my number.
I don't know how you've done on it, but I just the fact that you stand on that hole, as you say, in those kinds of conditions, you know that any kind of mishit and it's wet, there's no such thing there as hitting something a little bit in the heel and you still have a great chance to make three. I mean, you hit one, you know, off center there and you're in a.
Whole lot of trouble.
So as you say, I mean the sixteenth hole in a match play format on that golf course, it's gonna be absolutely incredible.
You know it's funny. The first time I played it, I almost saised it wow, landed like it was I almost went deuce juice. But on fifteen sixteen. But ever since that time, I think I think I hit it the second time, but every every every other time, I've hitting the water. And the last time I played for media Day a couple of weeks ago, and I hit it left in the water and I was like genuinely happy with the result because I knew I could drop
up by the by the rain. Like in my head when I was to you, I was like, if you're gonna miss miss left, like talking about like Scotty and commitment to commitment to the targets, like this was me not being committed to my target and just failing left because I honestly I was thinking about it. I might just start laying up on that hole.
I've certainly done it.
It's like a delightful layup, like he hit it over there, and it's like, oh, I can make three here. I'm not gonna make most than a four exactly. You know, the the original there was a there was an iteration of the routing where that would have been a part four and it would have played from like kind of more back into the right kind of like off of fifteen, and it would have played that way. And you talk
about like a fascinating short part four. You know, it's obviously one of the greatest holes in the world, but I think in that iteration it still would have been one of the greatest holes in the world, just different,
you know, Yes, So yeah, that that event. You know, I wanted to you know, before we've swerved all different directions as podcasts usually do, but I did want to, you know, I didn't I didn't get to watch Jack in his heyday, and I'm just just curious, you know that the Scottie comp to to to Jack, because I think it's natural everybody's going to to Tiger just because it's more recent and you know, the vast majority of
public watch Tiger that are golf viewers. And what was you know, how would you describe Jack Nicholas's dominance and how does that you know similar? How is that similar how Scotty goes about his dominance.
I would say that in terms of those two guys, they are incredibly comfortable on the biggest stage that they play on, Whereas I think you get some guys you know that you know, are going to certainly run into some nerves and certainly, well Tiger's the same way. But we're talking about Jack and Scotty right now. But I find that Scotty is just he looks the same to me Sunday at the Open Championship walking off the first t as he does on Thursday at the Waste Management
Open in Phoenix. He's he just gets to this place in his head that enables him to play his best golf. And I think they're very similar in the way they pick golf courses apart and you know, hit the ball pin high in the center of the green and leave themselves up hill puts, whatever the case may be. I just think that there's there's a lot more, many more similarities between Scotty and Jack than there are Scotty and Tiger.
It's, you know what, I feel like he loves the ritual and almost the the the process of being a pro golfer. It seems like he is. Is that a challenging thing to get a player to? You know, golf is monotonous. Being playing great golf is like fairly monotonous. Is it a challenge to get a player is it hard to get a player to just, you know, do stick with the stuff that works we can weak out.
That's a great question, I think, you know, certainly, you know, players run into a level of frustration or a break here and there, and they feel like they have to force the issue. And I see that you know where you're going with this, and Scotty seems to stick to the script perfectly. But I just think that, you know, when talking about Scotty Scheffler, we're talking about an outlier in terms of the amount that he that he commands
his golf ball. You know, he's you know, you know, to put it in in you know, a baseball analogy if I can, I mean, to me, he's Greg Maddox.
But he can throw ninety eight.
You know, he's he's got plenty of speed off the tee and he just he knows.
Exactly how far all of his clubs are.
Going, and you know he can he can pick things apart as a result. But you know, he he does everything so well. And and of course his putting stats now have improved so much over the last few years with the work he's done with Phil Kenyon.
It's just.
He's just something else and I love watching the guy, and you know, obviously it's going to be fascinating what kind of Ryder Cup he has because because you know, the Americans are going to rely on him to a tremendous degree, you know, given the depression that's gonna be on him there that Friday morning.
I mean, you think back four years to Whistling Straits and yeah, the he was like he was the unproven last pick he had won on tour and one right, and then John Rom's putting together this incredible Ryder Cup, incredible performance. He's he's keeping the European team in it. Ye, you know, Rory was having having a bad week. You know, you look at it like you look back at that Ryder Cup team and you're Rory is like, you know, I think he was like twelfth or something in the
world rankings. Victor Hovelin was, you know, a fringe top fifteen player, and it was like John Ram was like the guy, you know, and and he's having this great and then it's like, oh, they just threw Scheffler in, you know there. I remember the discourse being like they're just kind of giving that bad and that's sure enough. I think it was like Scotty's four up through four
or something in that match. And it was this, you know, you could you could point to a lot of things, but you know, him contending at Harding Park, you know, early in his his his his PGA Tour career, the Ryder Cup and then that that next year launches him into the class of player that you know he is now.
Yeah, but it was, as you say, it was this coming out party there Whistling Straits and you know who knows I had heard, you know, just through the grapevine that he was he was like a player pick that week that you know, you certainly get Ryder Cups where these captains will walk in amongst the six guys that are going to make it on points of the guys that you know are ultimately going to be there, and they'll say, you know, who are we not going there
without this? You know that week who you know who, who's our lock picks? And I had heard that, you know, there there was just an absolute avalanche of support for Scottie and and as you say, even though he hadn't won yet, and you know, they show that kind of faith in him, that kind of love, if you will, and he responds with that incredible victory over John Rahm, and you know, off he goes, and he's been the best player in the world for you know, for a large part ever since.
It's you know it sometimes like when you're you, you play I imagine with these guys, when they play with someone, they're the result.
Like it.
Golf such a results driven sport where it's like, what did you finish? But there's more to the story than the finish or the wins. Is there another player that reminds you that maybe not, It wasn't scorching right out of the gates that everybody was like that that guy is better than what what the public perception thinks right now, where like the players knew or the caddies knew before the results really showed it.
That's that's a really interesting question. Yeah, there's certainly gonna be several examples of that. I mean, though he's obviously on the European Ryder Cup side, I would say Victor Hovland is a guy that there was a huge buzz about, you know, very early on, and people were talking about this guy's can't miss, he's gonna you know, he's gonna win majors, he's going to be a force in the Ryder Cup. You know, you can go back into the
mid nineties. I remember they used to have this amazing tournament called the Dunhill Cup in Scotland where you would play for your country. There would be three guys and you would have, you know, play stroke play against three guys from another country. And we went over there in nineteen ninety six. It was Phil marco'murra and Steve Stricker and the guys on the other team had The other
teams had basically never heard of Steve Stricker. I mean they'd seen his name in the newspaper and whatnot, but they had no idea what they were dealing with. And the US ended up winning that week. And the only strategy we had as a team was we were going to put Stricker against the best player on the other team,
and he was just waxing everybody. And and that was an example of of you know, us and and certainly you know players around the tour and Gaddy's having an idea of how good Steve was very early.
On in his career, and you know, the amazing putter that he was.
But uh, you know, I'm just thinking off the top of my head, there's another player that that that I'm going to have to it's gonna come to me here in a second.
That would certainly relate to what you're talking about.
I feel like, you know, one that like if I think what I think about it is like one that comes to mind is like there's that great Steve Williams quote about Brooks Kopka, like a couple of years before
he went on his major run. Like there's there's certain guys that when when you walk by on the range, it sounds different Brooks cup goes like, you know, and I think that pre dated any of his major wins and and kind of you know, you think about a guy that went played on the European Tour and the Challenge Tour before he came.
To the US.
You know, it's it's you know, but there you can't fake it sometimes when you when you go around or you know, sometimes I think what's interesting about golf is like, you know, especially you could play with someone and you could beat them on a day, but you walk away maybe knowing that they have stuff that you don't have, you know, And I think that's like the interesting thing about like the highest levels of golf and like a
Scottie Scheffler be you know, being a player. Pick would be one that like probably some of those guys have had seen him play on tour and be like I don't have that.
Yeah, no, it's right. And during the pandemic, you know whatever. It was twenty twenty one and the tour played two consecutive weeks at the at the in Columbus, Ohio at Jack Nicholas's place there at Mierfield Village, and I caddied both of those weeks for Matt Fitzpatrick and I can't remember who was the first week of the second week, but we got out Thursday Friday pairing and one of
the guys we were paired with was Scotti Scheffler. And I'd seen his name before, didn't know much about himknew that he was a relatively new guy on tour and it was fascinating to watch him play at that stage in his career and just to see the shots that he hit. And you know, I can remember being on the range with with Matt post rounds and looking at each other going, Wow, what's up with that Schefler kid.
This kid's going places, and uh, you know it's it's it's I love seeing guys play at that stage and where where you can just see the you know, the superstar in them just waiting to burst out.
Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. I I yeah, I I played, Uh, you know, this is a lower level. I played golf with uh, this guy who's become a really good buddy. And it was like the very early days of me doing this. And you know, at the time, I was playing competitive golf, uh at a you know, a good
level for a working stiff, you know. And uh and I I remember I played like an early morning round we were at we were at a bar the night before, and I might have clipped him on the day, but I walked away and I was like, oh my god, like he's so much better than me. Yeah, so much better. And like now he's like one of the you know, ten best Madams in the in the world. And it's like, yeah, he's usually better, you know. And at the time he wasn't like even I don't think he was twenty five yet.
But it's you know, it's just like funny how you can just sometimes tell it's like, you know, these people have something that you don't have. Yeah, and it's at every level of the game, whether it's at the club or at the pro level, or at the even elite rungs of the of the pro level. All right, let's take a quick break to talk about our friends over at groove It. Groove It Brush is the best golf brush on the marketplace. They are veteran owned and operated. Really,
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for a matchplay turbo. We've talked a little bit about the Locker Cup, little Ryder Cup, and you know, like, what is there anything that you guys are doing different inside the ropes at match play tournaments than stroke play tournaments.
You're talking about from a caddy or a player perspective.
Both, you got you can relay both. This is the unique perspective of you're not just somebody walking around with a notebook like me inside of the ropes.
Yeah.
Now, I think certainly from a caddy perspective, well, you know, if you look at this year's Ryder Cup, we can almost I think, you know, nail how the golf course is going to be set up there should it should play quite long, I would assume, and I don't think that there's going to be a lot of rough, So I one of the things that I would be looking at as a caddy is your ability to play aggressively from the rough and still get after certain flags because
you would think that I would think that the greens shouldn't be overly firmed there that week. You know, certainly a lot of it's gonna be weather dependent. But I just think that, you know, you go around the golf course as a caddy and you're just thinking.
You know, birdies, birdies.
You can't fake it at the Ryder Cup, and rarely is somebody going to give you a match. You've got to go out there and earn it. And I can remember walking the golf course at Hazeltem and you know, you see, you know, some opportunities to maybe get out there and make five or six birdies in a round and and hopefully you know, grab a hold of the
match that you're ultimately competing in. And I think ik Fulfhill there and the singles match against Sergio in twenty sixteen and film eye either ten or eleven birdies on Sunday, and you just remember that they have these opportunities, and the golf course is set up in a fashion that really lets you get after it.
That I feel like the Rory Reid match that day at Hazeltem, the start of that match overshadowed what was like one of the greatest singles matches of all time, that Sergio phil match, I mean was that the was that the best golf match that you've ever been a part of I mean Stson, the Stetson Phil at the Open was probably the best golf ever. Maybe.
You know, some guy came up to me.
I was at an Open Championship a few years later, and this guy came up to me, who was some kind of you know, math professor in Finland or something like that, was telling me that it was the Phil's performance in which he finished second in that particular Open championship was the fifth greatest performance in the history of majors based on this research that he'd done. He had become fascinated with, you know, the fact that Phil had
played so well and ultimately not won the tournament. But I think that Phil's duel with Payne Stewart at late there at Pinehurst in ninety nine was also really really good golf at at an extremely high level on a great golf course. But yeah, you know, Phil was one of the great players of all time, and he needed and did a number of things, you know, incredibly well on big, big stages. But that that Sunday at Hazel team.
Was way way up.
There with with match play being your you know, we can week out on tour, they're playing the golf course like and you you try not to get wrapped up with like what other people are doing in a sense, and you're you're executing your game plan against the golf course. With match play, you're you're playing somebody else. And as much as I think, like people say, oh you still play the course, you try and treat it like you're playing somebody else and like what they do, it it
alters how you play with match play. Do you see a different type of U style from these players in terms of like maybe they're a little bit more aggressive at times, and you know, is there a difference in how they go about attacking a golf course?
I think so.
I think that in match play you certainly don't have to be perfect. You can get away with a little something here or there. I just think, again, yeah, it's about aggressive play and being rewarded for it and you know, hitting the ball hard.
I was.
I was laughing to myself this morning thinking about old Ryder Cup memories. If I if I could just tell a quick story when we went to twenty twelve, we had the tragic Ryder Cup in Chicago where the US gave up a big lead on Sunday, But it was Keegan Bradley's first Ryder Cup as a player, and it was it was basically a done deal that entire week that he was going to play with Phil in alternate shot.
And I don't know if you've heard this story, but I think that Phil may have pulled a fast one on him in terms of who was going to hit the T shot off the first tee there in their first match. And I think Phil had planned on doing it and then informed Keegan pretty late in the process. Oh no, by the way, you're going to be teeing off on one. So they had their conversations. I knew that, you know, ultimately Keegan was going to hit this T shot.
So I fourcaddied on the first hole there. Hey see'm not Hazeltine at Medina, and you know, I was about three hundred yards.
Off the team.
You get out there and you know it's a relad Ryder Cup and you're so jacked up as a caddy and it's just the most incredibly exciting week. And uh, I can hear from three hundred yards away the introduction and from the United States, you know, Michelson Bradley and to tee off, here's Keegan. He hits his T shot and when you're four, caddying is a caddy. You know, you need to pick the ball up, you know, get your act together, find a thing, get out there and
take care of the origin. And I got nothing. I'm looking around. I don't know where this ball went. And the Marshalls are standing next to me. No one knows where it went relative to the shots have been played there earlier in the day. And then some and some says, look over there, and there's a ball forty yards short of the green. Keegan had literally hit the you know, the longest drive of his life off this first tea and you know, we got a big kick out of it.
And the match moves on, and we got to about the fourth or fifth hole and Phil was hitting a pot and so I had, you know, thirty seconds of myself and Keegan walked over to me and said, hey, I got a question for you.
I said, what's that?
He goes, what happened on holes one, two, and three. I completely blacked out. And he could not, for the life of him, remember anything that happened in the first few holes because he was just so amped up and just you know, driving it so far and was so into the moment and I think it just speaks for you know, where these guys go mentally that week, how excited they are to represent their country and their peers and and and all Americans, and you know, and the
same works on the other side as well. It's just it's just the most amazing competition. They just can't wait to get after it.
I imagine you gotta like, from a caddy perspective, it could be challenging because of the sheer amount of adrenaline trying to try to figure out like what how the body and how the swing and distances react.
No question.
You know, you look back over certain shots that you that you caddied at or with, you know, with your player, and I kick myself. Now, when when Phil had that match with Sergio, we had a wedge into the last hole. It was like one hundred and twenty eight yards and you know, beautiful weather. They're in Minnesota that weekend, and I did not do a good enough job of factoring and adrenaline and where these guys were at in terms of how far they were hitting the ball because of
how jacked up they were. And Phil hit this web shot and it was all over it and we didn't get the reaction from the from the crowd that I expected to. And you walked up there and the ball was, you know, twenty five thirty feet behind the flag, and I was just so upset with myself that I hadn't factored in enough for adrenaline relative that shot being played on the eighth hole in a match as tense as this one, and Phil made it anyway down the hill.
But you're right there. There's so much to.
Take care of and to consider in these matches, and you'll see guys you know, do some pretty outlandish things that weeks because they have just so much pumping through their bodies.
Is that a challenge too? Is it more of a challenge to then a normal tour event just managing emotions that can happen throughout a match?
I would say without question, I think there's things that go on the Ryder Cup that don't go on anywhere else, maybe also including the Majors. The Ryder Cup is just unique unto itself, and in my experience at least, I've never seen guys you know, feel quite as much pressure as they do at Ryder Cups. Certainly if you've got delayed, you know, the last round of a major That's that's
that's very similar as well. But it's I think that that you feel so much pressure given the facts you've got eleven teammates, you know, other caddies, you know, the front office, if you will, with the captains, you just feel an incredible responsibility to get it done. And you know, nobody wants to be the reason why you didn't get it done, and it's it's just just I just think it's just the most amazing tournament. And I think that the Ryder Cup's what's so great about sports.
Well, yeah, it's dynamic shift for these guys. I think like one of the things that makes golf extraordinarily difficult is anything that's like a different feeling, a new feeling. I think that's you know, when you see people struggle in major championships, like it just feels a little different.
There's more weight to it with with the you know, these guys have played their entire careers really for the most part for themselves, and you know, you you learn this if I grew up, I grew up caddying and then like occasionally caddy for my friends in tournaments that you know, I'm you know, and I found my I find myself more nervous caddying than playing, because like I
get more nervous because I'm not in control. And I think there's a layer of these guys like having the weight of like it's in a in a in a best ball or an alter shot, having the weight of like I'm not just letting down myself because I think it's like easier to let down yourself than let down
anybody else. And I think that's like the added dynamic of the Ryder Cup or any team matchplay competition of that it's new and it's a different feeling, you know, and they just don't play it enough that you can get some really crazy outlier shots and performances is both good and bad.
I agree, Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's fascinating. One thing I will say about this Ryder Cup that I think is very important that hasn't necessarily happened at previous Ryder Cups is I think it's going to be very interesting to see as how close to the actual competition itself the twelve guys on the team actually play. In other words, you know, is NAPA going to end
up with an amazing field this year? Because you know, everybody wants to play within a couple of weeks of the tournament, whereas I think in Rome, the American team a vast majority of them hadn't played for several weeks running up into the competition, whereas the Europeans had.
Yeah, the Europeans run up to the Ryder Cups perfect because they have all the European Tour's biggest event effectively like the big swing of their season, and it leads right into the Ryder Cup. And as you know, you
did a lot of work. You you have a you have a digital series with aon that like dives into the golf course and the course insights in terms of of what we can expect from Beth Page, What would be what would you be looking at from like a skill set standpoint that you think will thrive at at beth Page, Black and and and type of things you'd be looking for if you were setting up a team.
Uh, certainly some length off the tea. It's a it's a big golf course. I also think that length off the tea can can help in terms, you know, psychologically in terms of you know who you're playing against, especially if you're longer than the guys that you're competing against.
But length off the tea, you know, solid ball strikers, and I you know, it goes without saying, but in my experience, Ryder Cups are one, you know, on putts between ten and twenty feet and who can you know, create some momentum with that flat stick and ultimately get it done. So it's when I was with a on and we were we were breaking down the golf course and looking at it a lot from a data driven standpoint.
I just think that you've got to have world class ball strikers and certainly some guys that can you know, pick up a little bit of heat with the putter. But length off the tea, I think that week is going to be extremely important.
Yeah.
Obviously, big golf course with elevated targets, the last agreens up on rages where hitting it high and long is a big, big benefit. And we saw that last at the last PGA there where you know, yeah, yeah Brooks and DJ way out in front to the at the time longest you know, most accomplished you know drivers and ball strikers in the sport. You know with Beth Page are there are there a couple holes that stand out in particular for match play.
Yeah, fifteen for me is uh.
I think it's going to be a massive hole that week in terms of you know, willing winning and losing. It's a it's a very difficult te shot because there's the whole dog legs to the left. It's an uphill second shot with some great whole locations on the green, but it's a very intimidating T shot because it's hard. You can't really it's like an infinity edge fair away. You can't really see what you're hitting into and there's
very little to aim at. So I think that that hole in particular could could go a long way and determining a lot of matches as they come down the stretch.
That's uh.
You know the uh I think like that whole back nine set up is pretty you know, there are a lot of holes that kind of like separate great you know even at the start of it. You know, the finish eighteen will be a fun finishing whole obviously, like super executional T shot beth Age. You know, you hear
about like great matchpy golf courses. I think like, you know, great golf courses aligned themselves to you know, great matchplight courses in general, and I think that's you know, one of the the aspects of that Beth Page will bring is that it is going to be one of the better Ryder Cup venues that we will see.
Agreed.
I think that's it's it's one of the best golf courses in the country. It's it's relentless from the get go. You're going to see birdies, You're going to see bogie's. The course, I imagine, will be an amazing, amazing condition. I know the first time I stepped on it in two thousand and two and two thousand and nine, to those two US Opens, I couldn't believe the condition of the greens.
They were like carpet.
So I just think it's going to be amazing and certainly a very pro American crowd. I'll be a neutral observe of that week working for NBC, but it's it's it's it's going to be an amazing show for a lot of people for a lot of reasons. And I cannot wait. I mean, we talked about you can't wait for the Walker Cup. Between the Walker Cup and the Ryder Cup this year, we've got some amazing golf this fall.
It kind of Uh, it makes for the the the letdown of major season being over is like not that harsh this year, having both those events with you. You mentioned the fans. You you've been in the mix late, You've been late on Sunday inside the ropes at Shinnacock, Beth Page and uh and wing Foot. I'm curious if you know New York fans get they have quite a reputation. Their reputation precedes themselves. Is there a different dynamics based off of the different you know, big time courses and
in the met area. I guess Baltistrall would be another one.
Yeah, you know, it's funny at Baltisroll when Phil won there in five, we had the unique experience. Phil led early on Sunday, had some momentum, looked like the guy that was maybe gonna win the tournament, and then gave up the lead in the middle of the round. And there were certainly some people in the gallery that weren't fired particularly happy with with with what was going out there.
They'll let you know it, so you know, I'm filling it up, you know, rebounding and winning the tournament on the seventy second.
Hall, making a birdie.
But you know, it's it's gonna be really really interesting, and you know, I think that, uh, you know, the crowds are going to be incredible. They're going to be really really supportive, but uh, you know, if you go out there and lay an egg, they're going to let you know about it. So, uh, it's gonna be incredibly unique. They're they're very knowledgeable sports fans. I hope we get a lot of local people from the beth Page area that would make it that much more special, But uh,
I tell you, it's just to have it there. I just remember going there in O two and and seeing the setup of the golf course and seeing the huge bleachers behind the seventeenth green air that par three up the hill, and a lot of people that we were talking about, can you imagine.
If we ever had a Ryder Cup here?
And and now all these years later, now it's happening, and I just think it's going to be one of the great great Ryder Cup spots in the US that we've ever seen.
O two. Obviously you're in the mix six you're in the mix or in the mix at are at at wing Foot? What are what were your favorite memories. Maybe not favorite, but you know, most vivid memories from uh from Beth Page over the years and in the majors.
I would say, you know, certainly did fans come to mind immediately, Uh, just the quality of the golf course, just how relentlessly tough it is, as you say, the back nine you get to ten. We had the fascinating thing happen in an O two where the the the USGA didn't anticipate the weather coming in I think on Friday as much as they could have, and guys couldn't reach the tenth fairway U, which was of uh made for some really interesting post round discussion in the locker
room and the range. Uh that that that was a really really interesting day. You know, I think the weather could play a big part in this Rider Cup. I don't know what we're gonna get, but I think we can get just about anything in terms of sunshine, rain, you know, warm, cool, whatever.
The case may be.
Uh, But Uh, I just think that it's it's it's just it's so unique to that area and the fact that it's, you know, a public golf course. You know that that brings a little something, a little flavor to the to the event itself, and you know in terms of you know, the folks you get out there are rooting for you. You know, I can make a part on that whole what are you doing kind of thing. So, uh, it's it's just uh, it's just a classic, classic American venue.
What's a favorite Ryder Cup? Bevery You obviously talked about Hazel Team, any other in the in the Kick and Bradley, any other Ryder Cup memories that jumped in mind.
I mean, how much time you got. I mean, you know, there's there's great memories. There's incredibly tough memories. I can tell you a story if we have a couple of minutes about the very first Ryder Cup I ever went to.
If you want yea, let's hear it.
In nineteen ninety three, Phil won the International and the Ryder Cup was going to be played that year at the Belfrey and Phil didn't get picked. He was, you know, it wasn't a big surprise at the time. He'd want you know, he'd just turned pro and I've been pro for a year and a half. But Phil had won the International, and I had made a few bucks, and I was obsessed with going to the Ryder Cup. I wanted to go, want to go see it, wanted to go check it out for myself.
So I thought to myself.
I called my buddy Joe Lacava, who was cutting for Fred Couples. I said, if I buy a ticket to come over there to watch the Ryder Cup, can I crash on the floor of your hotel because I knew there'd be nowhere to stay.
And he said, sure, of course you can.
So I went over there, flew over there on my own dime, you know, found my way to the belfry and I was there about an hour, and I got pressed into service, if you will. And what I mean by that this is back before there were four or five assistant captains and an unbelievable staff of people to take care of you. Back then, it was just Tom Watson,
the captain, his assistant Stan Thirsk, and nobody else. So in terms of you know, there being somebody to grab you a dozen balls, or to grab you a sandwich or whatever the case may be, that turned out to be me. I got hired as the team go for So I'm running around during these practice rounds just having the time of my life. I've gone from being outside the ropes and now being inside the ropes and it's great. So come Friday morning, it's it's it's time.
For the for the.
Action to happen. And the players go with that, are playing Friday morning, go out and warm up on the range, and you know, guys are nervous, really really nervous or hitting balls and not much as going on other than a little bit of small talk. And it's getting within about five or ten minutes of the first group going off, the first team, which I think was Tom Kite and Davis Love playing somebody, and this huge fog bank rolls in and just just choose up the entire golf course.
Major fog delay. So they send the players to the locker rooms and they say, here's the deal. We're gonna wait for this fog to leave, but we're not going to give you another chance to warm up. When when when this fog leaves? Because of TV, we've got to get going. So we're gonna go straight from the locker
room to the tee. So now you've got twelve guys or whoever's playing that morning in in the locker room and you know, this FOG's not going anywhere, and guys are you know, you're eating again, You're you're you're talking to your wife, you're you guys are pacing the you know.
The floors.
It's a really nerve racking time. And so Fred couples who's on the team. All the all the bags of the players were up against this wall near the the the locker room entrance. Fred's going through everybody's golf bag and checking out the it was latest in terms of
their their equipment. He's, you know, making his way down down this still this list of golf bags and he gets the Davis Loves and he takes out Davis Loves eight iron and he waggles it and the head falls off the shaft and this thing's bouncing around on this marble floor. And every day there's this gasp in the team room and you know there's there's Fred just holding this shaft now that the club heads on the floor, and I swear to goodness, you know, thirty seconds later
this guy comes in and said five minute call. FOG's leaving for love and kite. So Davis runs over, picks up his eight iron head, grabs a shaft and says to me, fix it. And this is back, you know, before you had, you know, tidlest trucks with with everything known to man on it where you could get something fixed. There's nothing. There's absolutely nothing. And he's given me this, this club to get fixed. And so you know, I'm in an absolute panic. I don't know what to do.
I go to the pro shop. They say, we've got nothing. But I'll tell you what. If you cross that field over there, run across that field and then another field, you take a right at that cow kind of thing, there's a farmer there, and I guarantee you that guy's got a POxy. So I do what I'm told. I grab this this shaft and this clubhead and the shaft, and I'm running here and I'm running there and I
see that the farm in the distance. And I get out to where this is and there's a very nice man there, and I say, do you happen to have any epoxy? And this guy's you know, got quite the garage and the barn going and this and that he goes, I certainly do. He epoxies the head and we get it fixed. I run back, you know, get out there. Davis and Tom Kid on the fourth or fifth hole. Give him this eight iron and off they go. So they play this match, the Ryder Cup goes on. It
was an incredible Ryder Cup. The US was down, they were down and out, and John Cook and Chip Beck won a match against Fouldu and Montgomery. They weren't supposed
to win. This kind of flip the script in the momentum, the entire Roder Cup in the US was coming back now, and so we get out there on Sunday and basically the Ryder Cup came down to one match, and it was Constantino Roca against Davis Love and the eighteenth hole of the Belfry of this incredibly difficult driving hole dog leg left over water and Davis Love to this day
hit one of the gritst shots they've ever seen. Hit this three hundred yard three wood carried the water on the left out in the ferry, leaving just the short iron left into this green and he had to knock the short iron on the green two putt, and the US was going to win the Ryder Cup. So I'm just watching from the side with all the players. He hits the short i on the green, it spins back
off a ridge. He's got a two putt from forty feet leaves it six feet short, so he's got a six foot and now to win the Ryder Cup, which he makes, and you know, we all pour onto the green and I'm you know, not you know, I'm twenty six years old or something like that and very new to the business, and just the team Gopher and Davis came over to me and grabbed me and by my
college and said that was your eight iron. I hit into the last hole and it just you know, you know, if I hadn't already fallen in love with the event at that point, I certainly did then in that moment.
And uh, that was just a Ryder Cup story. I'll never forget.
Did you have much of a of a of a club repair background when you're I know.
I got I got nothing. I mean, I mean, so you just.
Put the foxy in and jammed it in there in the barn.
I mean, yeah, you know I can buy the grip. You know, I can't what kind of grips day was head back in the day, but it was just an absolute mess. And this this farmer, if you will, for lack of a better description, absolutely just saved the day.
Uh little do you know what he did to this his home.
Team exactly right, A good point.
And I don't know if that would happen at beth Page if if a European needed needed some help from a nearby runt.
Go down to the local garage from the boxy. Not a chance, brother, We're you know, months out.
Who would you give the edge to with with your knowledge of beth Page? Who would you? Is there is there a side that you would tilt the advantage to?
Well?
No, I think that both teams have a lot of length and uh to your point about the European side, you know, filling out very very nicely that I think they're they're in really good shape and I can't say enough for how much momentum you carry into a Ryder Cup as the defending champion, if you will. I think the Europeans are probably very happy with with where they stand, and I think the American team is getting stronger by
the week. I'm fascinated by the whole Chris goddter Up situation. Yes, I think that's gonna be really really interesting to see how that plays out, especially considering the young man's from New Jersey and could be a complete folk hero that week should he make the team and ultimately, you know, do some damage. But I think this is this is lining up to be a very even heavyweight tilt.
All right, Big thanks for Bones for joining the podcast.
That was fun. We'll have to have them back on.
It has been great.
To get to know Bones over the last year.
We did a video on our YouTube with Luke Colton, a potential Walker cover. Go check that out on our YouTube channel at PGA Frisco. But big thanks and Bones for coming on, and big thanks to PJ Clark for editing producing this podcast. We'll be back next week with a new episode of the Friday Golf Podcast.