I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a brid egg Frida Egg, the dread Frida eg, Frida Egg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is with Andrew Putnam. Andrew plays on the PGA Tour. He has been out there for a few years now,
has really established himself as a good PGA Tour player. Uh, he starred at Pepperdine University, and uh, you know a guy that's not really out there that much, like he's not on social media much is He's an interesting dude because he's does things a little bit differently, no swing coach, a little bit different approach to the game, a little bit different style to the way he plays versus the rest of the tour. Really, so, I was super excited to talk to Andrew, and we did it in person
when I was down at riv last week. And I think this was a really good conversation. Something I wanted to talk about at the top here before we get to the Andrew interview was Riviera in general. I went down.
I think this was the third year that I've gone down to Riviera for the tournament, and I think as the stature of the event, the fields continue to get better and better, and obviously with the new designated events to the field was outstanding this last week at Riviera, and you know, the courses it really shines, even with how far these guys are hitting the golf ball and rendering a lot of the shots at Riviera less consequential than they used to be, because you know, these guys
are hanging nine irons, wedges and such into long part fours. But the course continues to shine, and I think, like what everybody is talking about is like how do we get more Rivieras on the schedule. And that's the tough thing. I think everybody looks at this event and it's been such a success, and it's how do we replicate this? And I don't know if it's actually possible. You know, the reality of today's day and age is that clubs get tired of hosting PGA Tour event after a few years.
You know, it used to be a huge badge of honor. You used to see longtime hosts do you think about Westchester, you think about the Michigan Warwick Hills Course, you think about cog Hill in Chicago. We used to have these long time hosts Butler National before cog Hill, and obviously that went away because of the lack of women members.
But we have these law We used to have these longtime club hosts, and really that's changed over i'd say the last twenty years or so, and it's become harder and harder to find clubs that want to host tournament golf year in and year out. At Riviera, it's a little bit different. It's not a membership club, so in terms of you know, one of the big differences is it's a single owner and the single owner wants to host it. So that's what they do. They host the tournament.
The history is really shown well through the clubhouse, Like I mean, they have a whole wall of champions that shows every single year LA Open winners. I thought that was kind of cool and nice ode But the members don't have a say and they can't complain about losing their course for ten or eleven days every single year. That's not a problem at Riviera, but that becomes a problem at almost every other club in America that wants that hosts year in, year out. The other thing that's
kind of irreplicable about Riviera is its location. It's right in the like it's just on the border of Brentwood, Santa Monica, and Pacific Palisades. It's a great place, you know, it's it's players are genuinely excited about Riviera, not just because of the golf course, but because of where it is, the town. Getting to spend a week in Santa Monica, they go out, they eat in one of the best food areas of the world. So it's a unique experience on tour, not only for the fans, but also for
the players. You see a lot of the players' wives come to this event because it's such a delightful place to be. So that's something to keep in mind with tour events is that, you know, I think that the the PGA Tour can be a grind for players that week in week out, you go to these different areas and you know, whether it be Palm Springs or Harbor Town, it's like these vacation places where you know, it's not a place like La where you're in the city and you have lots of things you can go do, you
can go see sporting events and different things. And that's something that I I kind of really thought of as a missed opportunity for the PGA Tour is you know, La has a lot of great things to do, but it also has a lot of great golf courses, and Riviera happens to be the one that hosts all the time, and that's awesome, but you know where the PGA Tour is missing, and how do you create something You're never going to create Riviera multiple times across you know, the
course of a calendar year. But how do you get better golf courses more consistently. And the key to that is going to great markets, great golf markets and having mainstay events. But you have to start to create these rotations because again, the memberships, the golf courses, they get
tired of hosting year and year out. It's like, oh, we're giving up ten days at one of the very best times of the year in our golf windows only six months, So you have to ration the amount of times you're going back to these so easy ways for the tour schedule to get better, to be a better product, because venues matter. Going to good golf courses matter these guys.
It's just a better test to golf. As we saw with Rom and hom of battling down the stretch, it was awesome to see a golf course that provided some stuff they had to think about getting in bad places around the greens, in different things. So with that mind, I kind of started to think about what could these what could the tour do that you know, would start
to replicate this at more designated events. Number one, you got to have you got to go to a few cities, and right off the top of the list, New York area, the New York market, the met golf section, that's the most golf rich area in the country. And the fact that there's not a regular event there is absolutely crazy not to mention all the businesses done there. I'm sure there's a sponsor on the PGA Tour that would love to host eight annual New York Golf event New York,
New Jersey. So my just first stab at creating a little rotation of that go Bethpage, Ridgewood and Westchester. So with beth Page, you're hitting Long Island. It's easy to get to from the city, and obviously it's a major Championship host golf course Ridgewood is outstanding. That was one of the golf courses that I was, you know, most, I guess surprised. I knew it was a good golf course, but I was so pleasantly surprised after playing there. I
thought it was so much fun. It stood up really well at the USM last year, and I think it stood up well at the PGA Tour playoff event it hosted a few years back. I think Bryson won that one. But it wasn't crazy. Even though it was wet, the scoring wasn't crazy, and it's a really fun golf course, good test. And then the final one hit a different part of the city. Go up to Westchester, obviously longtime host years ago, go play that golf course. And you've
got a nice little three rotation. And so you're not going back to Ridgewood and asking him to host every single year. You're asking him to host every three years. Maybe you find a fourth course to put in there. I'm sure people have some ideas. If you have ideas, feel free to reach out to me. I'd love to
hear your New York rotation. Then you go to Chicago, you need to have an annual event in Chicago if you're interested in upping the venue quality, because there aren't many cities that can host an annual event at great golf courses. With Chicago, you obviously have Olympia Fields. We'll see it this year in the BMW. We saw it a couple of years ago during the COVID BMW have a great finish with DJ and John Ram. That's a golf course that can stand up to players and provides
a pretty interesting test. Madina Number three is undergoing a renovation this year, so that will be a new look Medina. And you know, in terms of venue, just outside of just golf course, I'm pretty bullish on the golf course being very good when it's renovated because it's on a outstanding piece of ground. But from a venue standpoint, there are a few courses in the world that are better suited to host big major golf terms than Madina. There's
so much space and it's an awesome club. And then finally, Conway Farms. Now, is Conway Farms the most stout test, No, but it's in a different part of the city and it's just been renovated by Jackson and con it's got a much I think they've greatly improved their aesthetic. They've greatly improved some holes that have a lot more strategy than they used to now. I think that golf course is one that's gotten a lot better thanks to the renovation from Jackson and con and that provides you a
nice Chicago rotation. Further on, another city, Philadelphia. How good would it be if we saw a rotation of Philly Cricket Club Arono Mink and Wilmington. Philly Cricket Clubs obviously hosted a senior PGA. That would be an awesome, awesome PGA to our course. I have no clue if they would be opened up hosting it, but that would be an amazing place to have an event every couple of years around the make same bucket. That was a great BMW even through the soaked rain, And obviously they're hosting
a PGA in coming years. And I thought Wilmington was a fine PGA tour course. Is a great great golf course, No, but I think it's an above average PGA tour course and serves another area. But like Philly, these great golf cities you have to go do. I think the key here is rotation. You can't go back every single year to these places. They get tired, they get stale, the events get stale. So rotations, what about regional rotations. Wisconsin is now out of major Championship golf US opens aren't
gonna go back to Aaron Hills. It doesn't seem like and PGAs can't go you know, Men's Major Golf is not gonna go there. So what about a regional Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan rotation. So let's take the rocket mortgage and rotate it around or you know, maybe it's a differ for an event, but we got Whistling Straits, Aaron Hills, Crooked Stick, and Detroit Golf Club. It hits different parts of the country that are going to be so excited to come
out and show up. And there are good golf courses to go to, so you know, you're you're flying in, parachuting in. The support from local community is going to be huge to the years you host in these areas, and you're also achieving something important going to good golf courses. Another one, a little bit off the wall that I
threw together here Denver, Washington, Oregon and Utah. Here's the Rotation Cherry Hills, Chambers Bay Band in Dunes and then sand Hollow Down in Saint George, which can obviously pull from Salt Lake City as well as Las Vegas. I think that would be a really great way to hit up some areas of the country that aren't used to golf. That's just some ideas for the America American aspect of it. Obviously, then you could take some of these designated events internet
nationally the UK and Australia would be amazing. The hard thing with those is just going to be fitting them into the PGA to tour schedule with travel, Like obviously these guys just don't want to go to Australia because of how long it takes. I would love to see them play in Australia in the winter sometime. Maybe it's a kickoff, like an Australian event would be great before you go to Caappealoua. So you're kind of buffering that travel back with Hey, we're going to do Australia, then
we're going to do Capolua. But those are just a few ideas, and I'll let us get to Andrew Putnam. But I'd love to see one of the big focuses with this designated event push be venues while they're reworking this schedule in the coming year. Really, I mean this is the time. I think They've got a bunch of meetings in the coming weeks that are going to be deciding how this tour looks in the next year. And I'd love to see a little bit of a focus on designated events venues as well as how they make
up the field. So, without further ado, here's Andrew Putnam. Thank you for listening to the podcast, and thanks to Andrew for coming on. I got to ask you this question. It's a question that I think about a lot. Is Reno. Would you consider it as a past champion, a Reno which you can consider it part of the Pacific Northwest?
I would not, No, that's I'd never thought of it Pacific Northwest. I'm thinking more Oregon, Washington, Idaho. But I haven't heard the case. I haven't heard the case for why Reno would be So how's it?
At a bookstore in my town? I'm in northern California, technically, you know, really kind of central if you think about it, dividing the state. And I saw a book about mushrooms of the pacifica northwest right in the window, and I was like, well, am I in the northwest Pacific Northwest? But my thought is wherever there are redwood trees, like redwood forest, I kind of consider.
That constitutes us. Yeah, I mean, if that's your definition, then I guess it would be.
It's interesting that you include Idaho.
Yeah, I've just always thought of Idaho just it's it's cold and gloomy, kind of like Washington's. I don't know, we used to. I mean there's a lot of like junior tournaments that would cross over into Idaho, so it just feels kind of one one area. Yeah.
Now, so you're down in Phoenix in the winter full time really.
Well we used to actually sold our house, so now we're actually full time in university place right by Chambers Bay.
Wow. So you're one of the that's amazing.
Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm there right now because our kids and all that, But we do miss Scottsdale in the wintertimes and we still spend quite a bit of time there.
So you're one of the few PGA tour players that's not like Texas Sea Island in Florida or Arizona.
Yeah, me and I guess Kyle Stanley are the only ones up there right now.
But how do you think growing up in Washington kind of shaped you as a golfer?
You know, I think there's a lot of good tours it, you know, they have, I mean, Washington Zone is one of the strongest, like junior golf as one of the strongest, I guess statewide junior golf programs wj g A. They've they've existed for a long time, and competition is a sneaky good up there. We've had quite a few tour players come out of there, especially recently compared to how
many golfers there are, you know. And so but in terms of like man in high school, I had to play through everything like just I just remember like the cups being full of water and still having to play, and just the nastiest weather you could ever imagine. And so I think it looking back on it like that, that was just all I ever knew. So I just did it and had fun with it. But I think obviously it translates into having a little more grit on
the PJ tour. You know, a lot a lot of kids now like went to these IMG academies in Florida or California and just played in perfect weather, so they're not as for bad weather as I am.
I have a buddy who's on the corn Ferry Tour. I'm from Chicago, and he kind of he turned pro and then he was down in Florida and then he eventually made the decision to move back to Chicago in the and spend winter in Chicago, and he kind of rationalized it as like I struggled with golf all the time and I needed a break. Is that did you? You know? Is that something that part of you know growing up in Washington that became part of your golf, like having a weather andduce break?
Yeah, I mean I played basketball the way through high school and you kind of get forced time off because the weather's just not fun to play in, you know. So I think that that was good for me, like playing a team sport, and I think for juniors now that's even more important because it's so hyper focused on like you got to get good quick and fast, and like you know, so many guys are burning out now.
So I think having like a forced break is great and now translating to like where I am now, it's like, man, when I was living in Phoenix, like you never questioned what the weather is going to be like when you woke up, Like it's sunny every day, right, And so there's like if you want to take a few days off, you almost felt guilty because like the weather's so good that it's like why why wouldn't I go practice? You know?
But then now living up in Washington, it's like, man, I'm not going to practice because it's forty in raining. Like I'm just I'm not doing it, so I don't feel bad. So it actually it does. There's a part, you know, there's part of it that it helps with rest because you're you're forced to take a little time off on off weeks.
Yeah, I was reading I found this Pepperdine article about you, and there's a quote, when you spend so much time playing a sport, your identity and worth as a human becomes tied to how you perform. But my identity is not in what I do or what I play. And that's a good lesson that I'm glad I learned early on. When is that just from having that time off that you you kind of came to.
That, Uh No, that's just trial and error. I think that just as I mean every golfer, I feel like that's the big struggle is like, man, our identity is in I mean any I think in anything obviously can wrap your identity in your job, and but more so in like competitive sports, it's just like a that's just par for the course, Like you spend so much time
on it. It's extremely important. And yeah, when you when I mean, there's moments when all you know, any tour golfer has been extremely depressed with bad results, and so you learn like, hey, man, I'm I'm identifying my worth as a human because I play playing bad right and it doesn't feel good. And so that's something that you got to learn and get through. And I kind of, you know, obviously have a lot of good people around me to keep me on track, and my faith growing
up is a big part of that. But that's a huge lesson that you got to learn as a as a high level golfer. I mean, and it's never it's never like I'm I'm free of that, Like it just always comes back.
So yeah, I mean that's I think it's got to be part of it because of the individual aspect of it. Right, versus you know, growing up playing basketball, like when the team's playing bad, it's a joint thing and you're in it together almost. But with golf, is does it just make it so difficult because it's an individual thing?
Yeah, and it just it solely relies on you, and it's like you can't blame anyone else. It's like, yep, I'm terrible right now. I don't know what to say. I mean, and golf is just like a fickle sport where like, man, you can feel like you're like, when it's going well, you feel like it's the easiest game in the world, but then when it's going bad, You're like, I honestly have no idea how I'm ever gonna like play good again. There's certain it's just like the highs and lowser insane.
What would you say has been the most frustrating point of your career? Like it is there a period where you think back to like a specific run of events where it was like, God, I you know, I don't know why I'm doing this.
I mean, yeah, I've had multiple episodes of that. I mean in college I got the driver yips, I was like gonna be probably second team All American Pepperdine had like eight top tens and then my driver broke and then all this stuff happened, and I shot a million. I went to play Carson Creek in Oklahoma, and it's like the worst course ever to have driver problems. I don't know if you've been there, it's a nightmare, but I literally almost I mean I barely was breaking ninety.
And I'm like, dude, I'm a good player, Like I'm second team All American. I mean, another guy in my team the final round, I was like fifteen over another guy in my group or another teammate came up. I was like, on the sixteenth green, I saw him coming riding in a rules officials cart coming up, and I'm like, Chad, what are you? What's going on? Why are you on a rules officials cart? And He's like, bro, I lost
all my golf balls. I had to withdraw, and I'm sitting there with the driver ybs, having to finish this college tournament. That was probably the lowest point of my golf career. I remember my parents been out there watching me, and I I was legit in tears, saying Dad, I need to quit, Like this is not like you know, when you got left and right going you can't find the map. It was a nightmare. So that that took me like six months to work through. That was terrible.
I had a buddy who was a really good, like a really good amateur player played in college, and U like was like a very good driver of the golf ball that got it. The only way he could not get away from the driver, yps was hitting a ball off the deck, off the tee, so you just throw the ball down and he hit it off the ground. Like,
how did you work through that? Because we've obviously seen we I think it's like an under talked about thing that happens to very elite golfers, is the driver, like the you know, you kind of lose it and starts going both ways, and yeah, as soon as you don't have confidence in that club, it can be scary.
Yeah. I mean, I just grinded through it. Honestly. I just my natural reaction was to just stop playing and just be like, Okay, I'm gonna take time off. But I knew that it wouldn't the problems wouldn't go away, you know. So it's one of those things where like if you're facing something like that you just got to
go through it. And I just kept playing and literally shooting in the eighties like NonStop, non stop, beating myself down to like ground zero, and then once you hit the bottom, then that's when you can kind of like
work your way out. You know, it just sucked for six seven months, I don't know how long it's but then like that next year, I remember just having a couple of good things happened, like qualified for the US Open as an amateur that next year, and there's just you know things that like Okay, I'm back and got my confidence back. But yeah, I mean that was bad. I kind of had a similar thing happen on my rookie year as a PGA player. I just was kind of just had no idea where my game was at.
And I remember had a good fall. I was like probably top ten on the corn Ferry kind of list. I got into this riv event and then I just kind of, I don't know, rookie year on the PGA tour is tough, Like things can get out of control of fast. Again's kind of spiral and you can just get into like a bad rhythm where you're just trying
to play catch up and you're changing things. Anyways, I was in one of those death spirals and I remember Travelers Championship playing like this pro am and offside pro am, and it was at like this course that was pretty wide open, and I remember playing the first of the front nine and I hit probably I m out of lost like four or five balls off the tee. I remember these guys in my pro am like looking at me and like, hey, so are you playing in this tournament this week?
The tour ement?
Are are you just here like filling in for that? And I'm like, oh no, this is not a good sign. If these guys don't even think I'm like, you know, I remember like I ended up withdrawing from that tournament because I was like having just like crazy anxiety of like I couldn't play golf, like I don't know, I just I couldn't, Like dude, I don't know what was
going on. And I withdrew and it was like very humbling, Like I remember like calling some my coaches and I was like, man, I was like in tears in the airport, just like dude, I can't do it.
And uh.
I think that was a big breakthrough for me because I realized like I could, I could say no to golf. It's hard to like as a rookie, you feel you got to keep playing. I'm like no, Like I can take two weeks off and I can put the pause button on and like, I don't have to keep going
down this road where golf is everything. And I think I kind of woke up there and obviously didn't finish off my season great, but I think that was a big moment for me, especially as a young professional, like going through that early on.
I feel like the same thing happens with the corn Ferry Tour, where you have this race to points, and it's like, you know, as a rookie, it's you don't get you start where you start right, you don't get a set here. So if you're in you feel like you have to play, just like on the corn Ferry where like you know, you watch these guys they'll play twelve weeks in a row and it's like, no, that's like not a good thing to do.
Healthy, yeah, like any aspect of you.
But it's like that, it's like a fear of missing out on points. It's like, well, I'm like I'm forty fifth right now, and if I don't play, I'm guaranteed to drop down to fifty and like that that's the tricky thing. How hard was it? Also? You know, like you hear people talk about learning courses, and now that you're a veteran on the PGA Tour, what would you place in terms of a like kind of like does it really save you shots week and week out? Or can some places get harder the more you play it?
I absolutely think like the more you play something doesn't mean you're going to play better. There's certain courses that might work on but like, for example, yesterday LA was my first time playing. I was like five hundred through nine holes. You know, I'm not saying that that's a good strategy, but I don't know. There's something to like simplifying like golf right like you can as a rookie. That's one thing that was really hard is like, man I played the Monday pro am. I played Tuesday, played
nine holes and Wednesdays practicing. It's like when Thursday rolls around, you're just exhausted and you're like, man, I learned the course, but then I'm exhausted and I don't know. So there's a fine line I think for that and now like I feel like, man, I can just show up on like a Tuesday, maybe play nine Tuesday, nine Wednesday, and I'm good to go because obviously I've played all the courses a lot and know them, so that helps. But yeah, there's something, there's like a definitely a balance.
I've always thought like some places, I think it more fits like certain holes, like certain holes get harder the more you play them, because like you have like the skeletons in your brain and like you or you know, I really need to avoid that spot.
Yeah, And it's like.
You know, sometimes it's just like why don't I just hit a good shot and hit the fair away you.
Know for sure? Yeah, I know. I mean like playing yesterday La, I remember hitting a driver off the deck on this par five, like I don't know, fourteen or something, and I hit a good shot and then the pepper Ank coach was like, yeah, you know, if you hit it like twenty yards right there, it just goes into out of bounds. I'm like, well, I'm glad I didn't know that, Like I wouldn't hit a driver off the deck, but you know, it seemed like an easy shot to me at the point at the moment, so I've honestly
it's weird. I've had some of my best tournaments when I've like been her or had some freak thing where I literally could only play nine hole practice rounds, and I've like played my best and I've talked to other pros and similar stories, So I think practice rounds are overrated.
I was watching the Netflix show and you know, obviously mix mixed reviews for it, but one of the things I seem to clean and I think what you just hit on is like the the idea of expectations with you guys, and how like being able to keep expectations lower is such an advantage and no matter like how you compartmentalize it, and you know, and what you said, like when you've got something going on and you almost like you know, you can only play a little bit,
maybe you're injured or whatever, then your expectations change.
Right, Oh that's huge. Yeah, expectations are huge. It's just like if it frames a week like totally different. If your expectations are higher, you're like wanting to play well. If you're in like a hometown or it's it changes the whole week. It's it's yeah, it's key but yeah, when people play less practice rouns, I feel like you have less expectations. Like when you think like, hey, I got I've been here for three day, four days, I got this course totally figured out. Like your expectations are
going to be higher. They're like, hey, I should play well. Once you have that thought, it's you're just that's not good.
Yeah, you played with the Peppertine team at LACC. I was chatting with one of your former teammates just getting ready for this, and he wanted to know how much different the college golf landscape has changed since your time at Pepperdine. Maybe the courses these guys, I.
Mean, yeah, the programs now, I feel like, I don't know, they're just so much better. Like the places they get to play. I mean, these guys are flying private jets a few weeks a year, Like it's not or not even the same ballpark clothes that they get to wear. I mean, we had some of the nastiest pleated pants, and just it's a whole new level. Like they're playing
La once a month and they get to play. They're like members out of Sherwood and then they get bell Air they get I mean the places they get they get to go are just it's unbelievable and the trips they get to make. And obviously the coach at Pepperdine is is doing a great job, Michael Beard. I mean, I mean he's he's one of the best coaches in the country for sure, so they're lucky to have him. But yeah, it's it's different. It's different, especially now with
the nil stuff and all that. It's man, it's wild.
Yeah. I saw one of the guys because I was out there and I saw one of the guys like, yeah, he's as William mau he's a big time player. You know, one of the best players in the country is wearing a ping hat like all. You know, it's like, oh, he's got a deal, like you know, it's it's I think it's good obviously for I like long you know, when you think about the NTA, obviously an IL I think is uh is a long It was a long time coming.
Yeah.
One of the things that I heard from your teammate was that you take weeks off golf. What do you like to do in your downtime?
Yeah, I mean I don't take a ton of time off just because there's so many tournaments on the PGA Tour. I man played all but one in the fall SCHEDULESO, it's more like I'm not I'm not someone that grinds on the off weeks. I'll play like twice a week. But I like, I mean, I like anything outdoors. I'm wakesurfing, surfing, mountain I got. I've got a mountain bike that I one of those electric ones. It's kind of fun to take out motorcycling. I mean, I do kind of everything.
I live somewhere where a lot of people are mountain biking all the time, like crazy amounts, and I was wondering, like, is the e bike like cheating.
One hundred percent? It's yeah, but it's like you're get out of jail free card because like if you if you end up going too far and you're like, oh man, I like I don't want to get back, Like you just flip that thing on and you just power through it. So for me, it's like I'm going just kind of
explore and just get out. If you're like a purist, you know, like my old Caddie's like all into mountain biking and he would I feel like you would never do one of those because it's you know, he looks down on that, but if you're just out there like for fun, I mean, it's it's amazing way to get around.
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tour schedule? I think, obviously, with everything that's gone on with live elevated events, we've heard a ton from top tier players, like you know, Rory's really stepped up obviously as one of the big voices on tour. But the interesting thing is, like how this changes tour life for players of your ILK, like right in the middle, like you know, it's you know, mid level players. I hope I'm not you know, denigrating your career, but you know, how do you think the new schedule? What do you
like about it? What are some of the drawbacks of it for a player that's kind of you know, you're in elevated events, You're playing the second elevated event in it's many weeks here.
Yeah, I mean I've yet to seen what the fall is like actually going to look like. But this the this year in general is the same as it always has been. Really, I mean not not much has changed other than those elevated events which I already play anyways, So it's not changing a whole lot, but once the fall rolls around, that's kind of where I'm curious to see how it all shakes up, you know, that's where all the changes kind of are coming. And I don't even know if they know what the fall looks like.
What would you like to see the fall look like?
I'd like to have a break, I mean, I don't know. I mean, we never really get that much time off, so like having a few months off would be would be great. But I think that's what they're planning on. But I'm just I don't know. It's hard to know.
As somebody who covers this sport, I'd like to break a little bit too, Yeah, I'm sure.
I mean an off season wouldn't be the worst.
You've played in a handful of majors. Now, what's the biggest difference for you when you go from a regular tour stop to a major.
I would say, just like the vibe and the energy and the atmosphere just on another level. I mean, I think it's way more fun. Like it's just I played all I was actually in all the majors that COVID year. It was kind of unfortunate. I was an exempt through all of them, and man, it was such a bummer. It just was like, this is not that enjoyable being on the courses in these majors with no fans, and so obviously the setups are tougher and it's more penal and you got to be on kind of every aspect
of your game is basically challenged. But just the crowd in the atmosphere is just the best. I mean, it's just you can't beat it. It's kind of like Phoenix Open, you know, it's like that for the Majors, just so much energy and it's just so fun.
Did that Phoenix Open feel different as an elevated event than like the year before?
No, not really. I mean it obviously with the better players, like all the better players being there, that makes a little difference. But the atmosphere was just as wild as it's ever been.
That's why I'm interested obviously, Like this week is an event that always has a great field, so it's not that much different, And it's like when we get more into the schedule, maybe it's well Fargo, Yeah, when you have like your probably your first elevated event that isn't used to having, you know, fifteen of the top twenty players in the world or ten of the top twenty
players in the world, if it'll feel any different. But I think the idea, like how are you going about building your schedule now with these events is different, Like are there stops that you like to play because they fit your game that you're having to work in and maybe it's creating like a you know, a lot of events in a row.
Yeah. I think the Wells Fargo is the one that like, I've kind of been iffy on my schedule, but I'll probably end up playing it this year because it's in Elevated. But all the other ones, I mean, they're all events that I've always loved to play, So it's not changing a whole lot, but that middle part of the season, Yeah, it's gonna be strange. What I mean, I'm still I'm in that spot where I'm like, I'm not in the Masters. I'm kind of on the edge with the match play.
So there's a lot of like moving pieces that like I just I don't know where I'll be playing or not. I'm you know, living in up in Washington. It's like flying all the way to Hilton Head and then do I fly home after that or I play, you know, Louisiana. I don't know. There's just it's a tough like middle stretch for me. So we'll see how that shakes out. But I still have no idea what I'm gonna do. It's just, especially with the family and stuff, I don't know how that's gonna work.
Yeah, that, I mean, I imagine that makes it a lot different. I mean, I travel a ton, and being on a coast makes it a little bit tougher to get out because it's like do I take a red eye or do I just give a full day to travel. But then obviously with the family, is there a cadence that you like to keep a certain amount of weeks out, a certain amount of weeks home.
I mean, I think not being gone for more than like two weeks from the family, either them coming to see me or me seeing them is probably kind of a good rhythm for us. But there's no like set in stone, we got to do this or that. That just seems like if I'm gotting on in two weeks, my kids might start forgetting about me here. That's just a preference. But yeah, what like.
A week where your kids aren't or in family aren't around, Yeah, what are you doing with your downtime versus like obviously when they're around, I don't think we have to talk about like what you're doing stuff with them obviously, Yeah, what are you doing weeks that they aren't around?
I'm doing stuff like this, like getting to you know, hang out and being on a podcast like I got to play you know with Pepperdine Team yesterday, and go out to dinner with a couple of friends. Yeah, and a lot of you know, trying to sleep in, read and trying to get out and like do like a couple hour hike by myself like alone each week, you know, without the phone and stuff. I think that's kind of important. So yeah, I mean get a catch up on business
stuff I'm doing and just other stuff. It's yeah, it's quite a stark contrast between the weeks and my kids on the road and not. It's kind of weird. It's kind of hard. Honestly, it's a weird adjustment because you go from like twenty four to seven to what do I do with all this time? It's it's it is it's almost it's like a little hard.
Yeah, you know, I honestly, you know, last night or so, we traveled down here without our daughter and this is going to be the longest that we've been away from her. And my wife went out with friends last night and I like it was like six o'clock and I was like, wait, what, Yeah, what am I doing to, Like I'm just gonna get a site by myself? Like it's very weird the the
hike without a phone. Yeah, you know, I think, like this is one of the things I'd noticed is like a lot of times when I go out and do something, I put headphones in, I listen to music or all right, listen to podcasts, and like you don't have the same thought process, Like it's almost like sometimes you feel like it's empty calories. I shouldn't be saying this as a
podcast host. But then when you go without it, like it's amazing where your mind takes you if you go without anything, Like what are the things that you're thinking about when you're when you're doing that.
If you don't mind sharing, yeah, I feel like you just give your like mind time to breathe and like recalibrate, like you just I try to not do it and have like an intention where I'm like I need to figure these things out. It's like, okay, just let my
mind go. Like there's all these things I think in you're subconscious that like you can kind of suppress with you know, just information in and shows and just the NonStop digital life, right, And so I think allowing giving yourself that room to just like let your mind like figure out the stuff it's been putting on the back burner is really important. Like, Hey, I need to process this conversation I had with my wife where you know, got an argument or like what happened, like how should
I raise my kids in this situation? Like just these random thoughts that I'm not trying to like force that just kind of pop in and you're like, wow, I'm actually able to work through through some things that I'm probably not thinking through that need to get figured out that I haven't given myself the time to do, you know. So like it's it's a very powerful, powerful like practice to just get away. I don't do it enough, but it's so important.
Have you ever had any golf epiphanies doing this?
Yeah, I've had, you know, like just random things I've thought through and like, yeah, I need to change this or think through this or nothing that's been like probably groundbreaking recently. It's more just personal life stuff that I'm trying to work through.
You don't have a swing coach, right, a regular swing coach.
Yeah, haven't. I haven't really had one since Mark Blackburn and probably was that two thousand and fourteen or fifteen. Been kind of solo since for about six years now?
Seven years? What are what do you feel like the advantages of that are?
I mean for me, it was just uh I think with I mean, Mark's an incredible teacher, right, Like I credit him like getting me to the tour. Like I was kind of a bad spot on the corn Ferry and ended up meeting him and this guy Jason Glass, who a great trainer and did a lot of good work together, and I'd see him like being on the corn Fairy, you know, I'd see him like once every couple months, right, and then give me a few things work on is great, worked on them, and then see
him again a couple of months. And I think that, like that rhythm was really good for me. And then I got to the tour and I think just there's just more access to information and coaches and you know Mark, Mark travels a lot, so he's out there a lot, and it's hard, like when you have a coach there, it's like how do I not see my coach and
get instruction or get feedback? And I was going through some struggles with some equipment stuff too, so it was like this combination of things, and sometimes you just like just get too far off where you just kind of forget like what got you there and forget your feels.
And so I think the advantage is, like, man, you become very attuned with like you have to have ownership over your game first of all, and you have to be become like I've always been a pretty feel oriented player, so I think it really forces you to engage with that. Like if I get off, I kind of have to have my checklist of these are the things I know it gets me back on. So that's advantage. Like if I'm in competition and I'm playing and I get off,
I kind of know what I need to correct. But if you are too reliant upon a coach, you can have a problem where you're like, man, I need to finish this round and I need to send my coach these videos and get this figured out, Like I don't know what's going on. And so there's advantages of both. I would say, I mean the ideal case is probably having a coach you're checking in with, like having a
second eye, and I still have that. I still I mean i'd seen like I went and saw but Charman, I've sent videos to David Ledbetter, like I've seen a lot of coaches throughout these six years that I haven't had a full coach, but I just haven't. I think for me it worked best with just you know, a little bit of instruction and then me kind of formulating it around my own feels and taking ownership versus the
constant like input that some players need. And everyone's different, you know, everyone everyone excels differently, and that I figured that, I figured out that was the best case scenario for me. And I think, like the last couple of years, I haven't really had much coaching at all, so I don't know.
I think like you hit on something that's extremely powerful. It is like the idea of like your coach being almost like a crutch, and when you take that away, it forces you to be And obviously I think like there's a lot of different ways to approach as golf, Like you can approach things a million different ways. But when something goes wrong and you get when you see somebody regularly, your first inclination is like, Okay, I need
to ask what's wrong because they're there to help. It's almost like if your home with your kids and your wife is around, it's like you say, hey, can you come help, versus if you're home alone, it's like, Okay, I got to figure this out right. And I think that's like an interesting thing with golf is like, you know, it's such an individual game. The more individual you can be with with your golf swing and technique is probably
a pretty powerful thing. And then using coaches like you have as almost consultants where you can take or leave whatever they're saying. Yeah, how have you noticed with seeing different guys and some of the best teachers in the world, do you see different styles in the way they approach things? Has there been things like with the way they communicate something?
Are they giving consistent feedback? Is like do most people point to this two similar things with you when you're seeing these different coaches.
For the most part, Yeah, I mean they like kind of see the same It's like they see the same. Hey, I'm having a problem with this like how you know they pretty much all have the same consensus for you, Like these guys are smart, Mark smart, like but Charman's smart, Ledbetters like you know some of the other guys. You know, I have friends who are good swing coaches. They're smart, like they see the exact same thing. It's like it's not rock science, Like what my I get a little steep,
my hips kind of go left. I don't know, there's just like things that I always do right, and it's like get a little narrow, you know, get narrow, and it's like yeah, hands and body club get away from me going back. And so there's like these patterns that like everyone points to is the same thing. But you know, the the differences in coaching is just like how they communicate it to you, you know, and that's the biggest thing.
Like I think, Butch Harmon's like the kind of guy that's like a great coach, Like he he pumps you up and makes you feel like you're gonna be a world beater.
You know.
Same with Ledbetter, Like he's great like interpersonally, and I felt like he wasn't very technical at all, like he I know, he got he gets that rap, but he wasn't. He's like, man, if you're just within this range, like you'll be perfect. So I think the best the best golf swing instructors are the best coaches too, Like they know how to get you feeling confident about what they're talking about. But they all see the same stuff. You know, they're all smart. It's not like they've been doing it
long enough. They can point out the flaws pretty quickly in the matchups, you know. Yeah, And so it's just more the delivery style and communication that you know, you might hear something from one person and someone says it just like a tiny bit different, it makes sense with your brain, and sometimes that's that's all you need.
That's why I always say to people, it's like, if somebody just communicates the feel that connects with your brain, that's like all because they could be saying the exact same thing. But it's so hard to deliver, like telling somebody how to move their body while you're doing a golf swing that you've done a million times.
And that's the problem with like relying. Like so I've see some players that are like they get so lost and they're like and they're blaming their coach for what they're doing. It's like, dude, you're dealing with unless you're making these huge changes, like you're dealing with the smallest little things that like the coach can't feel that. You can't feel what you're feeling, so like him tell giving you advice, Like why are you asking him? It's like
a crutch. You want someone to blame, right, instead of digging deep and be like, no, I got to figure this out because these little like maybe it's a little timing thing, or it's a little of how the club goes back to first foot, Like these little tiny things are It's what makes like how can you go from hitting a perfect shot one swing and then hitting a bad shot the next, like if you film it on on camera, Like these golf announcers on TV are ridiculous.
Obviously they need to like have content and make say stuff, but like to be able to see like oh yeah, he got kind of underneath that, or I'm like, dude, you cannot tell what's going on in a camera track. Man can pick it up and show the club path, but visually you can't see it. So how would a swing coach know those little micro adjustments? Like man, just own up to it. And don't put it on your coach to be the crutch for you, Like that's the problem, you know, And so.
Many times like with that, it's just little things like if you don't feel as comfortable over the shot, like that's how like I noticed, like if I don't feel comfortable, that's when I might get under and block one.
That's the thing with all its so it can be so complicated, but it's like you can from what I've tried to do is like, man, there's some weeks that
I'm playing really well. The next week I don't. And it could be like I don't know, it could be the grass I'm playing on, it could be the way I'm seeing, like the shadows and the dude, there's so many weird things that could be influencing like how you're playing that I've come to like accept and realize and I think it helps you just like get over some bad golf or bad swings or you know, like putting.
You could just not be seeing the reeds that well in the greens because the greens are different than the week before. And it's like, well, if I make this big overarching statement of I need to change everything, well maybe it's just a little visual something that changed, you know, and you don't get on these extremes that people can get on, especially pro golfers, like we're perfectionists. It's very hard, but there's a lot of like there's a lot of nuance to playing well.
You're you're a really good putter, obviously, I mean everybody. One of the things I tell people is like everybody on tour is really good putter. Yeah. Like if you take like the worst putter on tour and put them in like a club game, they'd be the best putter out there. But I'm curious about how you approach go about approaching putting, Like what's your general thought? Are you very detail oriented? You talked about earlier being a field player. Are you what are you thinking about? Do you think?
Do you just try and not think about anything? How does how do you like kind of approach your work on the greens?
Yeah, so, I mean in terms of putting, like I kind of do the same drills I've always done for the last twenty years. Honestly, I kind of I have like a mirror and a ruler. I put off and then I use a string line. I do a lot of one handed putting right hand, left hand, and I kind of do the same stuff every day, like put a string line, have a left to right breaker, and do one handed putting with my right hand, one hand butt with my left hand right side, same thing. I'm
not a very risky putter. I'm a lot of shoulders, and so I keep that very simple. I haven't changed my putter really, I've had kind of a similar putter for the last twenty years. I mean, I think that's important. Like people who struggle with putting, you see, they just go through putters all the time. Like my brother was never a great putter, and you have a different putter, different grip, sometimes mid round, like just different.
You know.
It's like that's just the tall tale sign of that guys struggling with his putting, and we switching all the time, right right, Yeah, it's hard to just be consistent like that, So keep everything pretty consistent. And then I've always like I've always read putts with my feet. It's weird. I've always kind of gone to where like the last like four or five feet are and kind of shuffled my feet in and it's just funny to see now that
the aim point that's how everyone does it. But I've always done that, so it's just kind of been how I've That's how I've read putts.
Do you think about speed?
If I do, that's not good sign. So I'm trying because people ask me like, what do you you know? I all have friends who like, I'm pretty good golfers and always ask me like, what do you think about when you're putting on this and that? Like you are you looking at the ball? Are you seeing the back? I'm like, no, if you're thinking of speed or thinking of where your eyes looking, or it's just not good. Like I don't. I try not to have any thoughts, honestly, once I start thinking, it's not good.
That's I tell people this all the time, and they think I'm like crazy, Yeah, But like I believe if I like walk around a putt, that I've hit enough putts in my life that I don't have to even contemplate how hard to hit the putt. And I compare it to like basketball, if you're coming across half court, you're not thinking about how far away from the hoop you are when you're shooting right, You're just shooting the ball.
Yeah, just reacting exactly and That's the thing.
Is like with putting, I feel like getting into that reaction where you're not thinking about anything, it becomes more reactionary, which is like, I think the hardest thing about golf is like all it's like pitching or shooting a free throw or kicking a field goal. As we've seen guys struggle with, you know, like uh, Brett Maher like you know, like he just became you know, But when you have time to think about it, that's when you can get
yourself in trouble. And it's where you're not thinking about stuff can help you.
Yeah, for sure. I mean you got guys like I'm friends with Aaron Badley, and like if you heard his putting routine, you'd just be like, this guy's nuts. He doesn't I've asked him. He doesn't even know he's aiming, does no hiss aiming, And I don't even know if he does any practice putts, he says, I just look, I just get up to the ball. He's one of the best putters ever ever. I'm like, you seriously don't
know what you're amy. No, just get up there and I just see it and I hit it, and that I mean, that's like the total extreme, but it shows you, like, man, the guy's been great forever.
Yeah. Yeah. To me, it's like I used to be a really I used to struggle with putting, and when I stopped thinking about everything, I became like a way better. It's funny now I can't hit the ball right, I don't practice, but like it's it's weird how the game shifted.
But it was all a mentality shift, and it was like just picking out spots and hitting a putt to a spot and not thinking about the speed, Like it's almost the worst thing that can But then everybody's different than you see guys with the line that are really great putters that everything.
And I use that, use the line all that stuff. And yeah, I mean I think practicing your speed is good, but once you're in like tournament mode, like you shouldn't be if you're thinking speed, that's just not a bad that's not a good spot. You kind of using let it flow.
You brought up your brother. He was a great player. He played on the PGA Tour I think three web event that was back when the web was the web. What was the advantage of being the younger.
Brother had a lot of advantages I mean coming out like getting recruited by colleges, like they obviously knew my name just because my brother. So that was a huge advantage. And I mean playing with a guy who was I mean, he was probably one of the best, if not the best, am player coming out his year. You know, he was on the Walker Cup team. He was like probably the best player on the Walker Cup he had and he had Anthony Kim JB. Like, he had all those guys
on this team. So being able to play and practice and kind of chase after him was huge advantage, like learning through his footsteps, and he kind of was the trailblazer for me. And uh yeah, I mean it's always easier the second time around.
I feel like his game is like a lot different than yours too, right, like usually pretty much polar opposites. Yeah, I mean I imagine I remember, you know, I had a buddy who was a really good high school player, and he had older brothers who played on the team, and he was like when he was a little he was scrappy, you you know, get up and down everywhere,
and he would drive his brothers insane. Like, were there moments I imagine that you guys had some matches that got pretty chippy, and you, being a little bit different type player, probably riled them up.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean it's always frustrating when you're hitting the ball better than someone and someone else has beaten you, like match play or anything. It's just it's the worst. I had a lot of teammates who are still have bitter feelings towards me for some of that stuff. So because he I mean, Michael is one of the best ball strikers like in the game, and his putting was good at times, you know, at times
it wasn't as good. But yeah, it's when you're hitting into five feet and you're and you're the guys making twenty footer and you're missing your five footer. There's nothing more frustrating when you look at.
Your game and where it's at. What are you doing, like what are you looking at to try and get your to the next level, like get where you're locked in every major every year type level.
Yeah, I mean I think that, like the consistency I've had the last couple of years has been pretty good. I've had like brief stretches of a couple of months where I just didn't quite play well, and it kind of kept me out from getting out getting into like the top thirty I think at the end of the year. So I've been doing a lot of great. I mean, I've my body's been feeling really great over the last two years. I kind of had a back issue like three years ago that kind of was tough for about
six seven months. So being healthy is like number one priority for me in this stage of life. And keeping my swing speed kind of at least where it's at, not declining as kind of a big goal. And yeah, I'm just in that spot where I feel like I'm a lot more comfortable, like in positions, being in final
groups and all that stuff. So it's just kind of learning through that process of how to, like I feel like, especially the last like four or five months, I've been in the final group probably four or five times, maybe last three or four times, maybe going to Sunday or Saturday, and just haven't quite played as well as I had the previous a few days and just kind of got my own way and just playing a little too conservatively.
So I think just being able to learn from those and being freed up to man when you're the guys who win typically man, they're playing the same way Sunday as they did on like a Friday, unless it's like a major where you have to be a little more conservative, but just kind of keeping the you know, petal on the metal. Something I'm still trying to learn. You know, there's certain guys that I feel like they get in
the hunt and they're just like killers. Like Max Homa, Like he's always been that guy, you know, where it's like he gets toward the lead and he just like it's it's like a fuel that just accelerates. And like a guy like Nick Taylor even like you know, he gets around the lead and he's you know, obviously like great amateur. He won a million times and and he has that instinct and I'm trying to still learn that instinct.
I've been very consistent, but I think having that instinct of like having to get you know, pushing through and winning is something I'm trying to learn.
It's a weird thing about golf where I think, like most people, I don't think like what you're talking about with Taylor and Homa is a natural thing or a normal thing. I think that's like kind of a where you get that mentality like it's it's something I'm like fascinated about with golf, is like how you immediately you have success and then it's like I need to protect this versus just doing what you're doing. I had a round last year. I don't have many good rounds anymore.
It's like few and far between. But I got it going and I was like through twelve holes and I'm like, I haven't made a bogie yet, I haven't had a clean card in forever. And I start and then sure enough, like I'm thinking about the clean card and it's like the rest of the way in it's like a grind of up and downs to keep that because that's what became my thought versus like just doing what I did the first twelve holes.
You know, well, yeah, it's like the simple psychology thing. It's like loss of version. Right when you feel like you have something, you don't want to lose it, which is bizarre because it's like even like if you know you're in a casino and you're getting hot, most times people are trying to back down their bets, like no,
that's when you need a press. It's like you're you're on a heater, like you need to press it's that weird protective mechanism we have in our It's like a normal human trait that, yeah, it's like we're we don't
want to lose what we've had. But that's so scary and golf because it's like, dude, you don't have anything until the tournament's over, so you this is a terrible mindset to be in, and especially on the PGA tour, Like I've had to literally try to trick my mind because I'm like at the end of a tournamount of Sunday, like if I make a bogie and I say I'm in like the top fifteen or the strokes really count.
If I make a bogie, it might cost me forty thousand dollars just looking at money wise, but if I make a birdie, it's gonna I'm gonna make one hundred
and twenty thousand dollars. So it's like, do you not realize that going for birdies, like the upside is so much higher than the downside risk, Like it's weird how you you don't naturally think that way, but it's like that's the reality, and so sometimes you's got to be like, dude, get over trying to you know, not make mistakes and go for it, you know, because that's how that's I mean, all the top guys, it's their mindset.
Do you have like a sequence, like an event, like a small sequence that you like think about a lot, like where something went completely one way, but like since then it was a really valuable learning experience.
I feel like I've had a ton of those, like just in small doses. But I think there's like a framework of thinking that I try to go back to. It's like this this thing called like fear setting. I don't know, it's kind of a random thing, but like as golfers, like you have a fear of failing, right, Like this is a constant thing, like missing a cut or not playing well in a big event or whatever.
And sometimes like that fear of playing bad or something like can overwhelm your ability, you know, it kind of distracts you from doing the things you got to do to play well. But like I try to go back and think about all the times I have missed the cut or I have failed in the big moments and all that stuff, and go like work your way through the outcome of like what was the what was the worst outcome of that or how you know, and you think back and you're like, oh, there's just a tournament.
I hardly even remember those times I failed. It really doesn't matter. But like in your mind, you can make these moments become like so big and it's like, dude, it's just not a tournament. It's not going to change your career, your life. And so to like to do kind of this that fear setting thing. I think it's like a Tim Ferriss thing, and he talks about like doing like just play out like what's the worst case
scenario with this happening. And then after you know that, it's like, oh, it's not that bad, you know, and I can get through it and I can take on risk and I can fail, and it's hey, I've had enough tournaments now where I've like I've had failures and I've had successes, so I kind of know like, hey, they're both. It's fine.
I Mean, one of the things that you'd lose if if you got it off season is the idea of like, hey, you know there's a tournament next week. Yep, what are your five, say, five favorite stops on tour?
I mean, this week's probably the best course on tour I'd say hands down. I mean, there's what maybe one hazard one hazard on the golf course and it's literally just right in front of you. It's just as good as it gets. I'd say here Memorial is probably one of the best on tour. And then I mean Charles Schwab For me, I just love that course. It fits me really well. And I mean these are not counting
the majors. Obviously, the majors are obviously number you know, the top, and then after that, I don't know, those are kind of my top three. That's fine. I have a number of mind, I got a solid top three for sure. And then yeah, I mean there's a lot of great urnaments that treat you really well. And the courses are I mean Travelers is a really fun event. I love that course, but it's not like an elite course. It's a fun course.
Do you have do you set goals or you goal setter? Do you have any goals for the h you know, your.
Career And no, I'm very anti goals. I tried doing that. It just was disappointing. So I just I never I don't know, I've just never liked goals, Like it's just one of those things in golf is like the quickest way of disappointments having high expectations or like setting goals like in life in general, like the secret to happiness
is low expectations. Right, So I'm more like, man, if I do just the day to day things, right, if I'm taking care of my body, if I'm taking care of my you know, my mental I guess, like my off the course stuff, having good relationship with my wife, my kid, like all these little things that like build on day day to day that like, if I take care of those little things, like the results are going to be they're gonna be good, you know, And so
I don't need to worry about trying to achieve certain things. That's just never been my thing.
Awesome. I appreciate the time you got a golf tournament. You gotta go do some practice rounds and stuff. But I appreciate the time everybody can find you on social media and hopefully you'll have some new fans. We'll go to figure out what Andrew Putnam fans would be called, you know, is their name?
I don't know. My wife likes Team Putnam. That's kind of our ill go to line, but.
It might be too close to team you know, yeah, shout that that's not good all right?
Thanks Andrew Cool, Thanks Amy.
Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida Egg podcast, and thank you to Matt Rush's for the edit. Thank you Matt. As a quick reminder, if you have not checked it out, Club TFE is humming. This last week we posted a bunch of stuff on George Thomas in different intricacies. Garrett's been writing a ton in Club TFE. We've been getting a lot of great feedback about our weekly course write ups as well as the other content.
And this week we have the second version of our virtual hangout, so it's basically like a Q and A kind of almost like a Q and a podcast. We're kicking that off this week. If you're interested in Club TFE, it's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year and that you can find out more about it at the Friday dot com slash membership. Thanks and we will be back later this week with another edition of the podcast.