I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a fried.
Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Welcome back to another edition of the Friday eg Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and I am joined by one of our other esteemed co hosts, Garret Morrison.
Garrett two co hosts. Hey, Andy, how's it going.
I didn't call myself a co host. I call myself a host.
Oh so, so I get the co Well that makes sense. Honestly, that makes sense. You did found this company in this pot.
How are you.
I'm doing pretty well. Yeah, just getting going here in the morning and thinking about Pinehurst. I've been taking notes all morning and getting ready to talk about it. I love this golf course and so very excited to kind of get into detail about it.
I was thinking about it is like, you know, it's obviously one of the great golf courses of America, and to me, it's like one of the great golf courses that I've played the most. I think I've played it six or seven times now, oh really, yeah, And it's just you know, it's a phenomenal golf course, and I think that it's one it's easy to get to, so a lot of people have played it. And yeah, I'm really super excited about this championship. So this podcast, we're
going to go in depth on Pinehurst number two. We're going to talk about the golf course, and you know, kind of I think in the lens of hosting this US Open and where I wanted to kick things off was I think just to set the stage like this golf course, whether you like Pinehurst number two or not, is going to be a prominent figure in the US Open moving forward. So five of the next twenty five US Opens, including that, so that's including this year, are
going to be at Pinehurst number two. It is really a I think, like you could say never before frequency of a golf course in the US Open. ROTA. I know they don't like the term ROTA, but it's becoming very clearly a RODA. And and this golf course I think presents a unique challenge to golfers. And I think the big storyline because of how much it's going to be on the on the schedule, you know, it hosts in twenty fourteen. Twenty fourteen was kind of pre this
modern golf. It was right at this inflection point in the game where the game was getting younger, but you still had a lot of holdovers from the previous era. And what I mean by previous era is golfers who grew up without track man, golfers who grew up playing heads that were smaller than four hundred and sixty ccs. And now we have entered this new era of golf that is extraordinarily youth driven, speed driven, and Pinehurst number two will be a prominent fixture of this era as
a US Open course. And I'm very interested to see ten years later from twenty fourteen when Martin Kimer potted his way around the greens. But also, like you know, everybody talks about that Martin Kaimer, two time major winner, one of players at that time, I mean, this bonafide great golfer, hall player, and at that time, you know like he kind of it was just he blew away
the field like he dominated. It wasn't you know, it wasn't It was a tour to force, and in terms of this year, I'm super I'm fascinated with, like what skill sets are going to be you know, like we're going to enter this data room, like this data world of golf, Like what skill sets are going to be super.
Rewarded now that the game has changed.
Game has changed.
Yeah, And I think one of the things that's really interesting about the number two course is that it's not really clear which exact skill set will rise to the top because I think that, as Bill Corr put it in the video that we made about Pinehurst number two and released a couple of days ago, Pinehurst number two allows you to play your game, to try to thrive in the way that you thrive as a golfer. I could see a shorter hitter competing here. I could see
somebody really making bank with their short game. I could see somebody having a great putting week and winning, maybe mostly for that reason. I could also see somebody getting hot with driver and just hitting it really long and straight all week, having shorter approaches into these very tricky
greens and winning that way. So I think that one of the exciting things about Pinehurst number two hosting this major after the PGA Championship this year at Valhalla, where we all knew going in exactly what the dynamics of the tournament would be and which skill sets would rise to the top. One of the exciting things about this course in this US Open is that I'm not totally sure what the profile of player is going to be that ends up at the top of the leaderboard.
On the weekend, Bill Corr did a tremendous renovation of Pineers number two. Restoration, renovation, whatever you want to do it.
It was, I mean, the way I think I would like to put it would probably be historical renovation, taking the course back to its nineteen forties form, and I think it was pretty faithful along those lines. But there were also some modernizing moves that Corn Crenshaw made, But
I should mention single row irrigation, real deal native. There are a lot of like old fashioned aspects of this golf course that a lot of the newly renovated championship courses don't have, and so in this case, restoration might actually be close to the proper term for what they did.
In the lens of the Championship. I think the renovation thing that I would I you know, I think it's pretty fascinating. After I played it this fall, I just started think about, like, you know, it gets really narrow right where I want to hit the ball, Like right where I want to hit it. It gets narrow seemingly every hole,
And I think this is what you're saying. It's like where you could see a shorter hitter thriving basically on every hole at Pinehurst number two, every par four and par five fairways narrow at about three hundred yards, they get narrow and the waste kind of comes in and they're able to do this narrowing. Very It takes a while to realize that this happened, like I've played a
number of times before I started realized. Then I went on Google or started looking at it and I was like, oh my god, Like this kind of narrows down at every three hundred yard mark, and you know it's pretty wide. Then it gets really narrow at three hundred yards. So it's like it's an interesting golf course in that sense.
I'm super excited to see. Strategically, are we going to see a lot of drivers And if you think about like even driving distance in twenty fourteen, the number of players who could hit the ball over three hundred yards and twenty fourteen or averaged over three hundred yards in twenty fourteen pales in comparison to basically the entire tour averaging over three hundred yards in twenty twenty four So are we going to see a lot of drivers you
take on a little bit more risk. The Native is really a cool aspect of the golf course because you can get good lies. You can be in spots where it's like, oh, this is great, I can still hit it at the green and in some cases, like I like hitting it out of this because I'm going to get a little bit and get some zip on the ball,
Like it's not a bad spot. You could get a better angle if you're into the Native on some of these holes where like you know, you get over and you have like a really nice way to pro a very difficult green to hit from the fair away. So with the Native, but then also you could get into spots where it's like unhittable, like and I'm chipping out
sideways type stuff. So off the tee is going to be fascinating, Like I, you know, my friend's Zach Blair qualified, and I'm curious he's the shortest hitter on the PGA Tour, but like he's going to be hitting to wider spots in the faraway than everybody else. And how does that dynamic play out over the week. My hunch is that power is going to win, because it usually does. But I wouldn't be surprised, as you said, to see a short, shorter hitter or a couple shorter hitters contending here.
Some of this depends on how firm the course is, and I'm not quite sure how that's going to work out this time. You know, in the run up to the twenty fourteen US Open, it was pretty dry in Pinehurst and so the course was baked out in the week leading up to the US Open. They did end up having some rain on Thursday night of that US Open, and so the course was actually a little bit softer than expected. On Friday. Martin Kaimer shot sixty five sixty
five on Thursday Friday. Some players actually went pretty low. We remember that Open as being brutal, but it was really only very brutal on the weekend when the course did dry out. And so I've looked at the forecast. There's a little bit of rain in the forecast, and so we might get a softer version of Pinehurst number two, And I kind of wonder how the course would play for these players now ten years later, a little bit soft.
I think some players could go low here and that we could see more of a power game start to dominate at the course, because that's just what happened when the conditions are a little bit softer. It doesn't matter what the course is now. I think that there would still be some really interesting dynamics to the course, some really interesting holes where power players might have to make decisions that they're uncomfortable making given the way that they're
asked to strategize the game. Now. It's just hard to moneyball this course. I think it's not a simple solution using the methods that tour players now use to solve most courses. As you say, if you just wail away at driver, you're often going to find yourself in the worst position on the whole, and so that has to be on your mind in some way. So you're going to consider clubbing down, You're going to consider choosing some kind of weird line off the tee that might be
a little bit uncomfortable. You have to do some different things at this course than you normally do at even major championship venues, and so the details of players' strategy should be very, very interesting, even if it is a little bit softer and slower out there this year than it was ten years ago.
I think it's important to note, you know, there's gonna be a lot made Like the best draining golf courses are built on sand, and you're gonna hear about the North Carolina sand Hills a lot this year or in and around the tournament. And so pineher'st number two is built on sand, but it is not like the world's best sand, So you know there are different I don't want it's.
Like sand.
Yeah, I don't want to get two in the weeds here, But like you know, a lot, a lot of golf courses before they're built measure percolating rates of water to understand how good the sand is. And I would say that Pineher's Number two is a lot better than a dirt or clay based golf course at draining, but it is not at like the at a Scottish Links level, like that sand has a lot higher percolation rate than
Piners number two. So this golf course can recover from some rain and still present firm, but it is not like out of this world. And and I think the main and obviously we're we'll get to this, but the greens are the main defense of this golf course or not. I'd say probably the star defense of this golf course, especially for the modern game. Those targets and why they's the defense is that the targets are so small and they repel, often repel in all directions. And when those
greens are soft, the targets just get bigger. And that if they if they let's just say, the softness creates a twenty percent bigger target. It just makes such a such a huge impact on how comfortable the best players in the world are going to be. And I think Jeff Ogilvie in the video that we get that you you and Cameron put together on this had just like a great quote about Pinehurst that I think is really really true. The more you play it, the more it
scares you. The more times you play there, the more times you hit great shots that you think are like really good and end up in bad places. And what it does is it builds scar tissue. You start to think about that and that's when targets start to feel smaller and smaller because you think about, oh, I hit that shot so good the other day and it rolled off the right side here, like I need to move my target two yards left, And I think what you
were saying about the modern game the strategy. This is where Pineher's number two kind of provides some anecdotes to that, is that the strategy is like very it's very simplistic how these guys plays like avoid hazards game towards fat sides of the green. But when the targets are smaller and there's repelling edges in all directions, it becomes harder and harder to do that. And there's no water. We aren't talking about a place that has water hazards that
you're avoiding. So areas look okay, especially if you're looking at it from Google Earth. It's okay to bail right here and let it repel off. But with the way the greens are crowned and the short grass around them, and the way the short grass can run into waste areas, this is where you can get yourself in a lot of trouble because the ball that you're aiming six yards left of a or six yards left of a right pin. If you tug at ten yards left in my repel off.
So you hit it four yards left of your target, it can repel off and then run another fifteen yards away. This is the beauty of the golf course is that it accentuates mediocre shots. It accentuates the penalty for mediocre shots. If you hit bad shots, you're going to be in like a world of hurt. And if you hit great shots, you're gonna have great looks a birdie like. That's the thing. I think this golf course similar to Augusta National with
its greens. They're very different greens than Augustin National, but in a similar way, they accentuate the level the degrees of quality of shot really well.
I think a good example of this is the first hole. So this is a three hundred and ninety eight. It's a scary hole, it is, but it doesn't appear that way no on the scorecard or even maybe when you play it the first couple of times. It's a three hundred and ninety eight yard par four, which is almost a driveable par four for the US Open field these days.
It plays a little bit downhill and so most players are going to be actually hitting iron off this tee because there is a of that bottlenecking that you talked about earlier in the fairway, which by the way, is not a Ross design feature. It's not a BILLCRP design feature. That's a Mike Davis, former CEO of the USGA design feature. That's something that he requested from Billcore. In any case,
this hole plays a little bit downhill, it's short. Players will hit an iron off the tee for the most part, and then a short iron or a wedge into the green. You can play this hole a couple of times and hit the fairway, hit the green, move on with a birdier par and say to yourself, that's a gentle handshake. That's an easy hole. That's a simple hole. But the first time you miss the green on that hole, that's
when the game starts. Say you bail out to the right a little bit because you're scared of the bunker that's guarding the left side of the green. That bunker looks really scary, It eats into the green. It looks like the place that you don't want to be. So you bail out to the right a little bit. You try to hit the right portion of the green, but you miss and you end up in that little chipping swale.
You discover that there are these little contours, these little mounds down at the bottom of the swale that give you these weird lies for your chips, and it's all short grass, and you try to hit that chip and you discover that it's really not easy. Maybe you end up hitting that chip over the green into the bunker on the other side, and you end up walking away with double bogie and you're like, okay, I can't do that again. I'm not going to bail out right again.
So you come back the next time, and maybe you miss a little bit left and you end up in that bunker. And then then you just start thinking, Okay, where do I play on this hole? Where do I miss on this hole? What do I really have to avoid on this hole? You have to avoid everywhere. I mean, you can miss short like, that's that's okay.
So I played, I played this hole. We teach it.
Really it's short though. Actually, come to think of it, that's bad too. Sorry, go on.
So it's funny. I the last time we were there, we teed off on ten and it was in the fall, and so this was my tenth hole, and I started to play pretty well as I usually do, like you know, this is a working man's golf game. As you start to feel really good about the seventh or eighth hole. So I hit her great drive on one and I had like seventy yards sixty yards, like, I threaded it right through there and it was the easiest shot I had all day. With like a lobledge what I was
looking at. I was like, God, that green's so small, it's so so tidy. And I ended up just dump. I didn't hit it far o. I had like a backpin and I was like, don't do not go long. Whatever you do, don't go long. And I landed like kind of like middle of the green and it spun back and spun off the front of the green. Like it's just like an interest. Like if you don't if you don't make committage swings, there are going to be
chipping from all day long. Like the only way to succeed at Pinehurst is getting full commitment over your shots because like you cannot. I think, like this is the thing that's so interesting with modern golf. Modern golf is so much about bailing out like that's half the game.
Half the game is just like understanding I can bail here, don't dump it over here like that, That's what the game is has become and hit good shots like and there's like a commitment level that that most golf courses allow players to get to understanding where to bail out at Pinehurst, Like, the interesting thing is it's like when you start to bail out, that's when you get in trouble. When you aren't committed to hitting a really great shot
and you're thinking about what you're where, you're misses. That is that is like the biggest thing that can get you in trouble. There is not stand over the shot and saying to yourself, hit a great shot here, And I think, like what a golf course. And I don't want to dump on this golf course anymore. I think it's gotten enough abuse.
But talk about golf course again.
What Valhalla allowed was like bail out anywhere, bail out anywhere you want, and just to avoid and it created this this tournament where like you could it was like extremely hard to make double bogie because you could basically just like as long as you avoided like seven areas on the golf course, you were going to make pars and at worst bogie. If you hit a bad shot,
bogie maybe maybe badge, maybe a bogey. At Pinehurst, I think like you can hit really good shots and walk away with like shaking your head, like how did I just make a bogie? And the answer usually is like, you know what, I was a little too cautious with my target.
Right, And you know what happens when you bail out and miss at Pinehurst around the greens is that you're left with a variety of chip shots. Right. There's an infinite variety of chip shots around the greens at Pinehurst. They're so varied and that's part of what makes them interesting. But there is a certain brand of chip shot that you hit a lot at Pinehurst, and that is the
up and over. You have to hit up to the level of the green pad, which is higher than you are generally when you're chipping at Pinehurst because the greens are crowned or turtle back and so you're below the surface of the green, so you got to hit your shot up that first slope. But then often, as Jeff Ogilvie mentioned in our video, a lot of the greens have kind of lower middle sections, and so that means that you have to then judge the rollout of your
chip shot or your putt or whatever you're doing. You have to judge the rollout of it on a downslope, and so you're hitting up a contour and down a contour a lot when you bail out and miss at Pinehurst, because generally the bailouts are kind of like away from bunkers, away from hazards, So you're going to end up in
a lot of short grass if you're playing conservatively. But then that chip shot that you hit is the one chip shot that I think pros really don't like where you're hitting up something and then down something because it's so hard to judge your distance and it's so hard to like figure out what club to hit. Sometimes maybe pros hit a lot of lob wedges, maybe they'll just go for a standard lob wedge shot, but I don't think that's always the best play on these chip shots.
Sometimes keeping it along the ground is a lot more effective. Other times you do want to fly it a little bit farther, but it's hard to figure out exactly what shot to hit in those situations because you have the slow down pace going up and you have the speed up pace going back down, and that just introduces a kind of complexity that these guys don't see a whole lot at PGA Tour courses, standard PGA Tour courses or major championship venues like Valhalla.
Yeah, and another variable is it's bermuda grass. There's grain. There's just like an added layer of things that you have to calculate when you're hitting these shots. I think like in a way, Augustina National does this with lag putts. When you have long putts it Augusta National a lot of times it's up and over. At Pinehurst it's from off the green. Those those qualities come from off the
green and they're up and over. And you know, this is what made Martin Kimer's performance so amazing was doing it with putter all week long is very hard. This was not an easy thing to just be putting balls from off the green to dead. If it was, everybody would have been doing it. It was an extraordinary lag putting week from off the green for Martin Kimer. So yeah, I it's it'll be I'm curious how players are gonna
hit shots. Are we going to see a lot? Do you think we'll see a lot of people putting?
I don't know, because I don't think that most of the top pros are super comfortable with that kind of shot. Now.
I think the guys that are really really strong around the greens are going to be chipping the like that have that have full confidence and technique. I think we'll see some of the weaker chippers and pitchers on tour lean on the putter. I will say, I think like some players from Florida like that play a lot of golf in Florida where they have like a lot of
runoff Bermuda runoffs. Like you could see some of them play some bump and runs, especially like to short sided pins where you just kind of like hit it into the hill and let that kill it ye with like a six or seven.
Iron, even a hybrid or something like that.
Where it like kind of trundles over the slope.
I think that's a good play. I think that's like, honestly a really good play in a lot of situations around the greens at Pinehurst. But I'm saying that more from the perspective of an amateur than a pro, because those are very different, you know, very different situations.
All right, let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsor for this episode, which is ourselves, Club TFE. That is our membership option at the Fried Egg and it is we really like it. We produce a lot of content in there, a lot of stuff about golf courses in golf architecture. If you're into this golf course discussion that Garret and I are having, you'll probably like that. One of the things that we're going to be releasing US Open week is in every whole video like one
thing about every hole at Pinehurst number two. So we usually do those for a couple majors a year, you know, with with this year the US Open, that was kind of the big one this year, but I think last year we did Okill and LACC. Those are fun videos and then you get a ton of other benefits. We have a Pinehurst number two profile on there that I wrote. I think it's like eighteen hundred words about Pineer's number two.
So there's a ton of stuff. Those profiles come out just about every week of the year, so cover a wide range of courses, from hidden gems to the best courses in the world, So check that out Club TFF. If you're interested interested in joining, go to thefridagg dot com slash membership. Thanks, and let's get back to Pinehurst number two. Well, let's talk about some favorite aspects of the golf course. If what's kind of your let's just say a couple of your favorite things. We'll just start
with one. I'll kind of chime in with one of mine and we'll go from there.
Okay, one favorite thing would have to be what all the landing zones at Pinehurst number two are doing on the par four's and par fives. The landing zones and the fairways are so interesting on every single one of those holes. What those landing zones do forces you to choose a line from the t commit to that line, make a strategic decision, be specific, be committed, and play a good shot in order to end up in the position that you want to be, or even in order
to hold the fairway. So what the fairways do in the landing zones is so consistently interesting because the fairways don't just go straight down the whole corridor, which by the way, they did by the time that Bill Kohrer and Ben Crenshaw were brought into the course in twenty ten. They had kind of straightened out and turned into these little, you know, very narrow strips leading up to the greens.
And what they do now is they kind of snake, They jog, they slant, They run on diagonals in relation to the tea. And then you add to that kind of directional variety of the fairways the topographical variety. So they tilt right to left, they tilt left to right, They sometimes run downhill in the landing zone, they sometimes
run uphill in other parts of the landing zone. There's always something going on topographically in the landing zones at Pinehurst that is then combined with some sort of directional trickery in the fairway. And so an example of this,
a simple example of this would be on the eleventh hole. Now, this is a fairly subtle hole topographically, and there are other holes that might be a better example in terms of you know how big some of the movements of the land can be at Pinehurst, But the eleventh hole is a good elegant example of a fairway that runs on a left to right diagonal in relation to the te right, so the long carry is on the right and the short carry is on the left, So you
have that factor from the tee, and then you also have a right to left tilt in that fairway. It's a fairly subtle tilt, but it's there. And so what this does is that if you play safely out to the left, if you bail out to the left, the safe side of the fairway that feels the most comfortable, that requires the least carry, the tilt of the fairway
will push your ball farther to the left. And so what that causes you to do the next time you play the hole is say, okay, I got to bite off a little bit more of this right side in order to avoid running through the fairway on the other side and having a really bad angle into the green because the green is very hard to approach from that left side of the hole. So then you start playing
more right on that hole. But then eventually maybe you get to a point where you miss right and then you're totally dead because you're in the you're in the waste area, you might be in the forest, and so you the the nature of the landing zone on that hole causes you to make calculations on the tee that are not just simple keep it down the middle of the fairway. You've got to pick an aiming point and you've got to execute it well. And that's on pretty
much every long hole at Pinehurst. So just pay attention to what's happening in the landing zones. It's always interesting.
Yeah, I think that is one of the best features of the golf course. It may it's what makes it such a difficult driving golf course. I think that really, like in the modern era of the best, the best golf courses use diagonals off the tee really well, and this is definitely one of them that that uses the diagonals really well as well as the land you know, and that it again, just like the greens, it goes
against the kind of formulaic nature of golf. What has become with strategy where it's like, okay, I'm going to just avoid this and hit it over here. What happens is that then you you get it yourself into more more trouble. The waste being the like the waste, it's just such a that I think professional golfers hate when they don't know what they're where their balls, what it's getting into. And that's what the waste presents is that it's not rough like irrigated rough, you know what it is.
And it's like, Okay, I know the ball is going to stop, and it's going to be in this type of life. I get a really bad lie, I'll hit it to the front front of the green. If I get a good lie, I've got a shot at it. You know. The waste kind of accentuates both variables of it. It is like I could be perfect, I could be but that chance that I do have chance. It's not something that golfers like. So the fairways being surrounded by chance rather than you know, I know exactly what I'm
getting into. It just presents another unique mental challenge of the golf course.
You know something about the sand and wiregrass at Pinehurst, which by the way, is going to be a big talking point on the telecast at the US Open. You're gonna hear a lot about the wiregrass. You're gonna hear a lot about the native areas and the kind of you know, randomness that they introduce into the competition. And I like that too, Like it's so much better than the irrigated rough. It's it just makes the game so much more interesting and exciting, but a couple of things
about it. So two points about it. One, I think an underappreciated aspect of the sand in wiregrass at Pinehurst is how the wiregrass can affect shots in a variety of ways. It's not just either you're in a tuft of wiregrass and you're screwed or you're in a sandy, scrubby lie and you're kind of okay. Often you will find yourself next to or directly up against a tuft
of wiregrass. Right your ball will be somewhere in the vicinity of one of these little profusions of wiregrass, and you'll have to manufacture some kind of shot out of there, because you can get to the ball, the ball is in a good lie, but the wiregrass is getting in the way of your swing somehow, and so you have to hit some sort of creative shot. And that's what's so cool I think about this native and what makes it a good test of skill. It requires a variety
of techniques. It requires flexibility on the part of the player. It requires players to manufact extra shots and hit different shapes and use different swing paths, as opposed to just hacking out and using their strength in that way. Another point, a little bit less positively, is that the USGA, along with Pinehurst, has introduced a lot more wiregrass this year for this year's us Open, Right, so we're going to see you just more coverage of wiregrass, more regular coverage
of wiregrass at Pinehurst. And one of the things that Bill Corr really emphasized in his work at Pinehurst was randomizing the danger in the waste areas, putting those little tufts of wiregrass in a bunch of different kind of randomly scattered places, not having a regular idea of where you're really in trouble. And so I think that introducing more wiregrass and making the coverage kind of more complete in those waste areas has taken away some of the randomness that makes that hazard what it is.
It makes it a little bit more execution heavy, which in the history of the USGA we know they love.
Yeah. Yeah, It's just an example of something that the something that was done to a US Open venue that just didn't need to be done. There's no reason. What are we gaining by this. We're gaining, like, you know, maybe maybe a tenth of a stroke more over par on certain holes, Like what is that really important enough to do this kind of thing. So that's that's especially It's not like that big. This is not such a huge deal. It's just it just struck me as totally unnecessary.
To do it, especially considering the twenty nineteen USAM, where I thought the golf course shined. It was so extraordinary, It was very firm, and it provided it. It seemed to perplex And I think it's important to note these are college and high school players. These are you know, like very good amateur like the greatest amateur golfers in
the world, but a little bit less experienced. The golf course seemed to perplex them, like it they were getting into positions where, you know, being the closer to the hole wasn't necessarily better because the lack of ability to generate spin on certain shots where you know, being a little bit further back sometimes with advantageous where like the
chance of the wiregrass was was really shining. So I think the twenty nineteen us AM has been a tournament that's stuck with me for a long time, just in sense, in the sense of like that was like very good modern championship golf. So I think like one of my favorite things about Pioneer's number two, and it's just I think one of the best three hole stretches of golf
anywhere in the world is three four five. This to me, there's a great Tom dok quote about you know, a great golf course makes an impression in the first five holes, I think is what he said. But then somebody that Blake Conant, who works for Tom told me he says to them, three holes, this golf course really hits its stride at three four five to one and two are
on pretty subtle ground. They get you out to three four five, which you know is famously three Green is right where dal Ross's house they lived in at Piners was. But from that that stretch of holes, I think, you know, we probably won't see a ton of it on the telecast just because of its being early in the in the round. But if I was going to go watch golf at Pineers, that's that's an area I would camp out as three Green because you can kind of you watch shots into five, t shots on six, shots into
three right there. So three is a short par four that you kind of you're gonna lay back off the tee, and then it's one of the most magnificent greens at Pinehurst number two. It is built way up in the air. The target is seemingly the hood of a Volkswagen Beetle, and it's you know, it's a pretty easy hole to hit the ball into the fairway and get yourself a wedge, but an extraordinarily hard hoole to hit a wedge into. So it's just a great it's just a great little
par four. There's so the green just has some neat little pockets in it. And then you go to uh four and five, which is you know, a classic par nine between the two of them, long par four, short par five. You know, if you get out of there at under nine, you feel really good about yourself. And it's got some of the dynamics that you talked about the variety off the tee. So you know on or the fairway kind of goes cut, it cuts kind of
right to left. You're gonna be trying to hug the left side of the fairway to cut the distance of the hole down, but the fairway slope severely left or right.
Yes, it's a reverse camera hole, yes.
Yeah, And if you can like you're trying to hug that left side, but up the left is wiregrass, and it's not where you want to be on a long part. Four that's like disaster. Like you're gonna see some balls like hit up there and run down through. So like there's this potential of hitting it up there and really like taking on a ton of a ton of risk and cutting off more of the hole. But if you play it down to the right, then you have this really long shot into a tough green that's got a
pretty vicious false front. The front kind of cuts on a diagonal too, which makes the proch shot even harder. And then you come back with five, which that's it's an extraordinary golf hole. And unlike the other hole, which kind of it moves, you gotta just you want to play like a rope draw here like you want to just you could play it out to the right and turn it over and that's gonna get you the biggest drive because the hole kind of moves to the left.
And and and then that green, I mean, that's about as tough of a green as you're gonna find in golf. It repels every way, vicious false front and then vicious false back. Yes, it's like that's the cool that green is unbelievable, like you're terrified of everything, and the green, the way it repels in the back, and it's just somewhere you don't want to be.
It is.
It's a great short par part five. I think because of the green, it really works as a part five. And famously during the restoration Billcore flipped the pars of these holes. Four was the par five and five was the par four. Now it's flipped where and I think they did that just because there was way more space to build a back tee on five.
Yes, well, it's it's where the old World Golf Hall of Fame used to be before it moved to Florida and became Gary Player's favorite place. Is back now, well they're they're bringing it back to Pinehurst. I'm not sure where they're going to put it. They can't put it in its old place because now the fifty is there.
I think they're opening it this week, the US Open week.
Yeah, well, I hope they record a new commercial with Gary Player because I miss having that in my life.
But Slammer and the Squire.
Yeah exactly, Slamma and the Squire and the Beaya. So anyway, it's totally unrelated. Uh, the fifth hole I love as a par five. I think that was a great decision to make, you know, if you had to make one of those holes along part four. I think probably when Ross built them, he was more thinking, both of these are kind of par fives, right, Both of these are long holes. This is where we're going to find some
some length on this course, some extra length. They were the latest holes that Ross added in the design of Pinehurst Number two. They were added in nineteen thirty five. The course had started to be built in you know, the mid nineteen hundreds, the first decade of the twentieth century, and so the fourth and fifth holes were additions, and they were both long holes on the most dramatic topography on the course, so they immediately feel like something different
on this golf course. But the reason I love five is a par five so much is that, as you mentioned, there's that terrible, terrifying false front on that green, and the way that it's a false front is so clever because it's kind of like it doesn't just sort of slope off all at once, It just kind of gradually starts sloping, and then the volume on the steepness just gets turned up and turned up and turned up until finally it just falls off a cliff, and so that
false front eats so far into the green. Because of that, the false front starts really far into the green and everything feeds down into that bunker short left of the green. So basically, if you go for that green and you don't get up and over that false front, if you don't get to the middle of the green, basically where the false front finally levels out and allows for some pins, then you're gonna probably run down into that bunker if
it's firm enough. And so your calculation from the fairway, if you're going for that hole in two, is am I okay with being down in that left bunker? Because that's the likely outcome if I go for this green and two and don't hit it perfectly? Or am I just going to take my medicine and hit it out to the right to this little pocket on the high side of the hole that allows for a nice little wedge approach into this green that most pros can execute in their sleep. And so that's why I think it
works so well. It's just everything everything about that hole makes you think that you should be going for it, that this should be a long part four. But then once you play it a few times and you're in that left bunker a few times, then you think, okay, maybe this really is a three shotthle.
I think one of the things that we've hit on a little bit so, but we talked about the angular nature of the t shots. I think one of the other things about the greens is they they're set on really hard angles like where they they're really like if you if you go on like Google Earth, it's really apparent to look at this is just how how strong of angles the greens kind of axises are on. And what happens with that is a lot of the false fronts, a lot of the runoff areas, they aren't straight lines.
It's not a hit it one two and you're okay, hit it one fifty one and it's coming down the front. It's if you hit it one fifty two right on your line, it's perfect. If you push it like a yard, that line moves to one fifty two and a half. If you pull it, that line's one fifty one right. So like you start, that angular nature of the front is also like an important aspect of the golf course.
This is, you know, kind of like when you talk about why it's such a frustrating golf course for the best players in the world is because of these little tiny features where like precision. You know, these guys live in you know, really like five yard windows, and within those five yard windows, the numbers that matter to them, what the front edge, what the carry number is oftentimes is very different from the left side to the right side,
and that's where you hit these really good shots. Where any other golf course, like really, you know, almost any other golf course in the world. These are great shots. They're really great shots that yield fifteen foot birdie putts at Pinehurst number two, these really great shots that you'd be happy with everywhere they play on the PGA Tour.
At Memorial this week, the week before, you'd be thrilled, thrilled, ecstatic with the shot end up twenty yards away in a hollow with a really hardship shot coming up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's the distance control is so so important.
But distance control tied to accuracy, right, which is rare. Like, you know, the best iron players in the world rarely miss numbers, but they they'll push and pull shots. It's you know, I tug that a little, I push that a little, but you see them hit the same number at piner number two. Those small little pushes and pulls get penalized sometimes.
So we've talked in detail about the front nine so far. We talked about the first hole and then three through five. I think the back nine here is basically one banger after another. I just love it from from basically eleven to the finish. I mean every single one of those holes.
I said three through five, Yeah, three through nine is awesome, but then you get into the back nine, it's like three through eighteen to me, and I really like two and one. The thing about Piner's number two what makes it great is like I don't think like there's a few really like standout, world class holes. But what to me, the the greatness of Piner's number two is it to some of all parts golf course there are? There's nothing
really I would I have like a hard time. Like I think that one of the best questions you can ask is what's the weakest hole at a golf course? And I don't know what the weakest hole at Piner's number two is.
I would probably settle somewhere in the six to seven range for that.
If I really like seven, I love seven. I think seven is one of the most fascinating holes there. Talk about pick your line, yeah, well yeah, and the super hard T shot. It's like it's the most uncomfortable T shot on the golf course, and then the green is really cool.
I wouldn't say it's the most uncomfortable T shot on the golf course, but it's really uncomfortable because of how your sight line is obscured by all that junk on the right.
And it's got the angle. Yeah, it's got the I think that that fairway moves on the hardest angle of any of them. So it's of all the holes, like you have to hit it on the number of distance and line the most of any T shot on the golf course, and that can be hard to do even with like a hybrid, which I think you'll see a lot of most players are going to lay back on that hole. But it's not an easy it's not a gimme hybrid.
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think that even the weakest holes at Pinehurst have a great argument for them, and so that is part of what makes the course so good.
I think That's the thing is, like, of all the great great golf courses, Pinehurst might have the strongest, like might have the strongest weak holes.
And it gives people the least excuse to talk about just one or two holes, you know, yeah, for whatever reason. And I don't think it's because it just has less great holes than other courses of its caliber. I think that there are just a good seven or eight holes that you could identify as the best hole on the course, and knowledgeable people who have played the course a lot wouldn't be able to argue with you very much about
designating that one as the best. But yeah, I mean, I just think eleven through eighteen is so brilliant at Pinehurst and that whole stretch that almost the entirety of that back nine. I love ten two, but for me, the course really kind of hits its stride with eleven through eighteen. Tens of brute just ten tens, a long par five, and it's got some interesting features to it, for sure, But eleven through eighteen are all basically intact from nineteen oh seven. Those holes have been in the
routing of Pinehurst Number two from the very beginning. Obviously, some have been lengthened and changed sixteen plays as a par four for the pros instead of as a par five. I think it's a little more interesting as a par five. But that's okay, it's you know, it's part comes with
the territory. But I just think those holes are so great, and you could talk about individual features of each hole, but I think what you really discover in that stretch of the golf course, if you're walking the golf course, is how clever and varied the routing is. Because for a lot of the back nine, you're kind of going back and forth. The courses is doubling back on itself a few times before finally wandering back to the clubhouse.
So eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. Basically, you know they zigzag, but there's this wandering feeling to the routing in that part of the course where they're not just doubling back straight with each other. It's not like they're playing side
by side. There's a little angle change with each of those holes where they play in a slightly different direction and they form these kind of triangles instead of forming straight lines, and it gives you this feeling that you're kind of getting lost in this property, you're not exactly sure where you are. You don't have a strong sense of orientation into the clubhouse or the starting point, or
even to a couple of holes ago. You're just kind of meandering through the property at that point, and that to me is where the course becomes really beautiful, where the prettiness of the pine forest and the sand and all the native vegetation really comes through. For me, that's where that happens. And you know, a lot of Pinehurst, the resort in general, is just it's very kind of developed. There are a lot of buildings, a lot of homes,
and there's a lot of golf. Right whenever you're playing golf on one course, you can almost always see golf on another course because there's just so many everywhere golf holes out there, like it's ridiculous. You know, Pinehurst number four is right next door to those holes that I'm talking about on the back nine, and in fact, parts of Pinehurst number four used to be part of Pinehurst
number two. In any case, for me, though, because of the way the routing moves in the middle of the back nine, the property just shows off a little bit there, and that's what surprised me the most the first time I played the course, because I didn't expect Pinehurst number two to be really beautiful. That's not really its reputation. But during those holes, that's where that esthetic appreciation of the land that Donald Ross was able to use in
this part of the country comes through the most. And so I think that's something that when people, if people go to the tournament or if they play the course, that's something they pay attention to, is just how good it feels to be out on that part of the property.
Yeah, I agree with that, and it almost like I think that across the entire golf course. What it does well is it changes direction subtly a lot.
Like you even when you're going out, even when you're one, two, three, kind of all play in the same direction, four even, but there's slight changes. There's a slight curve to that you.
Know, and and the greens might orient, it might be in a little bit different position. That just change the way you're hitting into it. I don't think it doesn't get like, let's be real, it doesn't get particular. This is not like a windy part of the country. Pinehurst. I don't think like anybody's like there but we do see the recipe of a pine trees with some wind, So if you get some gusts, what happens. And with a golf course that changes directions a lot, it's really
hard to understand where the wind's going. Tall pines wind, So that's another recipe of the golf course. If you get that ten plus mile in our wind, it can be hard to tell where exactly it's coming from. And when you couple in the penalty for really close to right shots but just off it magnifies that something I like about Pinehurst Number two. I don't think it would ever get brought up as like the greatest set of
par threes in the world. I do really like the par threes though, I think they have like there's a nice little variety to them. They play. They're each pretty unique, I think probably if you want to make a you know, six and fifteen kind of kind of feel a little
bit similar. But they're spaced out pretty well and they embody the characters of the golf course where it's like, here's a long iron, mid to long iron and it's really terrifying that it's gonna repel everywhere and hit the shot, which which I think fits the golf course really well, Like in they're very difficult shots. I think nine and seventeen are are extraordinarily great par threes. Nine might be
the prettiest hole on the golf course. I think you're kind of playing back up into the corner of the property, great canopy of trees, beautiful bunkering, and you cannot miss long. You see all this trouble up front with the bunkers. Yeah, long is the thing that you cannot do. And it's a very it's a sneaky look shallow from the tea, but it's an extremely shallow green and it seems like it's just like an easy place to hit it long.
And I think it's like a subliminal thing where you're you're looking at the trouble short and you're like, I don't want to I want to miss short, you miss long? Yes, And then seventeen. I think seventeen is a great penultimate hole where you know, if you can stand up there and hit a great mid iron into the green, you can earn yourself a really good look at Bertie And if you don't, then it's going to be a tough, tough track for par.
If you think about each piece of land that an architect gets as a set of problems to solve. I think one of the problems that the Pinehurst Number two property presented to Donald Ross was that there aren't many obvious places to put par three's. There aren't these kind of severe pockets of land that are scaled to a par three and that provide kind of a you know, a topographical movement, yeah, and a drama and a distinctiveness in the land itself that lends itself to building par threes.
And so he found a couple of those pockets on seventeen and especially nine, right. Nine is a classic stretch of land to put a par three on, and so he found that he gets the golf course to that point so that nine can play the way it does. And then seventeen is sort of similar. It's also a ridge to ridge par three and it fits nicely into that piece of land. On six and fifteen, he basically just had to manufacture interest on those part threes. They play on basically flat land, right, and so all of
the interest comes from the green complexes. Both of them are very domed, very rejecting. But I think fifteen is especially scary because of the way that green just kind of rises up from the grade and almost has like not a complete infinity horizon. But there's not much behind that green that gives you a perspective or that makes the green seem smaller and less severe. It's just this kind of hump, you know, coming out of the coming
out of the land. It's like a you know, it's like a whale coming out of the ocean, and you're like, I got to hit that from two hundred yards.
I think it might be the hardest shot on the course.
Not not easy at all, And six is similarly difficult. That green is a little more subtle in the way that it presents itself to the view of the player from the tee. But I think those those holes do stick in your memory, not just because of how severe they are, but because of the little details of the green complexes and the way they present themselves visually. They're
very nicely differentiated from each other. And the other part three is on the course, so obviously like masterful, masterful design to summon those part three from this particular piece of land.
Another one of my favorite spots of the property is twelve and fourteen are oh yeah, It's amazing those two greens sitting down right next to each other.
You got, I love that part of the property.
Yeah, thirteen t it's just.
A great place to watch golf's. Yeah, so that's the other tip you mentioned the gathering point with was it five green, four t three green sixty earlier? That's a great spot if you're going to the back nine, twelve fourteen green would be a great spot. Yeah.
The thing about it is what would make it, I think a really good spectating area. I'll probably have more tips when I'm out on the ground, but is both those shots are kind of coming down at those greens, so you get the nice perspective of looking up at a player hitting down to you, right.
Yeah, and then you can watch the shot on fifteen. You can see the outcome of the of the play.
There and thirteen, which some days might be drivable.
Yeah, yeah, I wonder which I don't actually remember whether they ever set up thirteen is driveable in twenty fourteen. It is a really cool hole, you know. One last little poke at the USGA. Now, I'm not totally confirmed on who made this change to the golf course. It might have been Pinehurst. All I'm going to say is that this change happened in the twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three range, so clearly was done in preparation for this US Open. They did bring in the fairway
by about ten yards on the left on thirteen. Now thirteen is a short part four with a sharply elevated green where the whole idea of the golf hole is that if you challenge the right side, which is very heavily bunkered and has some nasty, gnarly waste area, if you challenge the right side on that hole, you have a better angle for your short pitch basically for most of these players into the green. So the more you can kind of push to that side, the better off
you are with your angle there. If you bail out to the left, then you have a very tricky shot into that green. There used to be more fairway over there. They brought that in and by about ten yards, and it's just like, again, why are we doing this. It's just to make the scoring average of the hole slightly higher. It certainly doesn't seem to fit with the architecture of the hole because that's the bailout zone you want players to go out there and then try to deal with
that pitch into the green. Now it's just these kind of regularly planted tufts of wiregrass, and it's like, Okay, you know, why are we doing this.
The other aspect of that is if you make it, if it's a drivable hole, it makes the decision of whether I push up like the modern golf hit it as close as you can is like the theory. So one of the things I've always kicked around in my head about how how do you make how do you make choices more difficult? How do you potentially counter that perspective? My theory has always been make the layup like super appeally, Yeah, I'm going to I'm giving you a wedge from the fairway.
I'm giving this to you, or you can push it up there like every every analytic is telling you to push it up there. I'm going to give you this wedge and I'm gonna give you plenty of space where you're not worried about my three iron missing the fairway. And this is where I just think like the USGA, I I don't know, I don't sometimes I don't think
it's the USGA. I think it's like just tournament set up in general, Like do they do they not understand like the like the dynamics at play here, like where like the theory of why people hit drivers so much, the theory of it is is rooted in you might miss the fairway with a three iron.
Also, yeah, right, so if you make it more likely to miss the fairway with the three iron, what are they going to do?
They're more likely to hit the driver, right, So it's if you want variability, which I think everybody wants. Everybody wants to see these, Like, I mean, like one of the things I've I've really loved. I've like grown to love tennis. I used to love it as a kid. But one of the things I love about tennis is the dynamic of different style players playing against each other. And it's like Medvedev, who's just like a human backboard, right, Like you just get to everything back playing against a
super aggressive player. Like I love watching that. Like this guy's content just standing back. He's really big at the baseline and just returning stuff.
Yeah. So a guy who wants long points versus a guy who wants short points.
Yeah, exactly. So it's like I love watching like that
kind of dynamic play out over a couple hours. Like if you're if you're trying to like present a golf course for championship, you need to play on some of these dynamics of like you know, like I want players to think about this, and if you make it narrow everywhere, you just they're just gonna hit driver everywhere because it's like, oh I might miss the paraweh if Like, nothing is worse than when you hit an iron and you miss the fairway with an iron, you feel like an idiot.
And then that almost always the next time you play that hole, you're gonna be like, I'm just gonna hit driver.
Yeah, I mean something that's really clicking for me right now based on what you're saying, is that fairway with variability is such a key to getting in elite players' heads and making their decision making processes more complex. And that's something that pinehursh number two generally does really does great.
Yeah, that's the thing across the golf course. This golf course does it awesome. I think there are spots where you could nitpick and be like you know what, like it gets a little too formulaic, but in general, there are places where you can play back, you can lay back, and what you're doing like it's like, Okay, I'm gonna have like x percentage better chance to hit the fair away. But my approach shot in with a seven iron versus
a nine iron is x percentage more difficult. So that's the beauty of this golf course is you're constantly weighing this versus that it caused an effect, and that's the best golf it's not. It's not just bludgeon.
Totally agree. It's going to be a great US Open venue. I hope things turn out well in terms of the closeness of the competition down the stretch. Obviously in twenty fourteen we got to run away, and that can sometimes
be an effect of a course like this. We also might see a slightly different version of Pinehurst number two this year that's not quite as savage because we have different weather leading up to the tournament, and we also have a different USGA philosophy that has taken hold since the twenty fourteen US Open in terms of setup, where they have started to become more conservative with it. So those are the caveats. I'm not going to guarantee the greatest championship any of us has ever seen. But I
love this golf course. I think it's a great tournament venue and I'm super excited to see how things play out.
Yeah, I'm pumped too. I think we'll have more coverage throughout the week. If you don't subscribe to our newsletter, subscribe to that though. We'll be doing dailies. We'll have myself, Brendan Porreth, and Joseph Lamannia will all be on the ground, yeah, and as well as Cameron Hurtis or photographer. So follow our socials we'll have some photography and stuff and then new team member PJ Clark will be on the ground too.
Oh wow, yeah, making it making it podcast official, Yeah right, PJ Clark. Yeah, very excited to have some some more help here.
So so anyways, we're we're we're excited. Check out our socials. We'll have more stuff rolling and if you're if you haven't watched our video on Pineer's Number two yet on YouTube. Garrett did a awesome job scripting, and Cameron Hurtis, as always, did a wonderful job putting everything together visually in a in a very pleasing aesthetic manner. Feature.
I just and yeah, and and Andy. Obviously you should get credit for shooting a lot of the footage and also helping with the the interview of Bill Corr. So it was a true team effort. But those videos are some of our favorite things that we do all year and some of the things that we put the most effort into, and a true showcase for the talents of
Cameron hurt Us. You know, he's so brilliant at putting together the stories of of these videos, and so yeah, we're very proud of it and we encourage you to check it out. We'll also have some more content on Pinehurst number two coming in Pinehurst area courses coming in Club TFE, So if people go to the Friday dot com slash membership, you can see everything we're offering in
Club TFE. But specifically for this coming week, we're going to do a nice little rollout of good writing we think on Pineherst number two, as well as an additional video that I'm narrating about some of the individual holes on the course. So that's coming from members awesome.
Well, today's podcast was edited and produced by Matt Rush's big thanks to Matt or maybe no it's Meg.
It's either Matt or Meg. Matt and Meg have been kind of, you know, sharing this responsibility late lately, so thank you to both of them.
Yes, thank you to both of them. And we'll be back next week. It's the US Open week, so we'll of our US Open preview podcasts up on Sunday as always for majors. And I hope this was a good golf course primer if you got any more questions about the golf course, Fire US, fire US, tweets at US, or whatever it may be. I can't wait to be on the ground and at Pinehurst.
Looking forward to it.
