I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball.
In a brid egg Frida egg the dread and Frida Egg, Frida Egg, fridagg Frida egg, bride egg.
Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf.
Welcome back to the Frida Egg Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison. Today we're talking about golf in the Monterey, California area, where I lived for five years, and here to discuss that with me is Brendan Porath. Brendan, how you do?
I'm great, Garrett, Thanks so much for having me excited to talk about this today.
So the reason we're focusing on Monterey today is that this week the US Women's Open will be held at Pebble Beach for the first time. So we can start off just by talking about US Women's Open a little bit. Talk about Pebble Beach. You know, as this tournament is approaching, what are you looking out for? What storylines are you tracking going into the week?
I think a prominent story and an obvious one is the venue, right, and you know we tend to focus that on that regardless at the Frida Egg and we're entering, or have entered, been, in this era of I think venues taking on an increased emphasis in prominence, certainly from the outside consumer, but also from the governing bodies and the organizations. And I think when I talk venue, I'm talking about the golf course itself. I'm not necessarily talking
about infrastructure. I'd say the Ryder Cup remains kind of the lone wolf there where the primary concern is commerce and what can be achieved on the grounds. But the venue push has certainly morphed into the women's game, or transitioned over into the women's game. It's been a primary area of emphasis, with the PGA, the LPGA a little bit less so. But but the other bodies out, you know, the USGA being the primary one. And there's some cognitive dissonance.
Why has this not happened? But you're you're happy to be there, You're excited about women's golf going to Pebble Beach, and I think it's it's, you know, something to celebrate, while also understanding it's twenty twenty three and the women should have been playing in the cathedrals of American golf. They should have been It shouldn't have taken until now. There's been some you know, championships here, but not a major like this, right, and not a modern era major.
And I think it elevates the women's game in a way that it should have been before. But happy that it's doing so now. I saw you this is just a random aside. I saw there was someone was sharing Ted Williams's Hall of Fame induction speech on Twitter and
I hadn't really seen it. I'd read it before, and he used it as a moment, kind of an amazing moment to advocate for Negro League's players, being like, this isn't a true Hall of Fame, this isn't like Satchel Page, like they never had an opportunity to play against me. Of course, women's golf is a separate league and a different sport, and I'm not suggesting, you know, they should be playing against the men, but it is the game of golf, and they should have had access to these
kind of cathedrals. And we've seen it a little bit with Anwan now. But that's what I'm most excited about this championship, this sport being elevated and having this access in this stage.
Absolutely and So there are two things that you know, you sort of keep present at all times. One is that we're happy that the US Women's Open is going to Pebble Beach. That's a great thing and it's a moment in history that needs to be recognized. At the same time, we also can feel a little bit of regret that for a long time, the US Women's Open did not go to worthy venues every year, and that
history needs to be remembered as well. You know, this adjustment should have been made a long time ago, but it is good that it's being made now. So, Yeah, gonna be really cool to see Pebble Beach this coming week with a different set of players. Are so used to seeing the men play it. I'm very curious to see how it goes for the women. Are there any holes in particular for you that you're excited to see the women grapple with as opposed to how we've gotten used to seeing the men play this course?
I think you know, six, obviously for me, is just the stunner hole, right, There's many stunners for me. I'm not kind of covering new ground here with suggesting six is a good golf hole, but I'm curious to see how they set it up, how the women, how you know where the tea box is, how they play it. I'd say for the men, it's largely, you know, smash it up the left, regardless of whether it's you know, fairway or not, and then you launch one to the
front of the green right and runs on. I'm just curious, like, is that second shot a real sort of blind I mean, it's obviously a blind shot, but but what is how will that play? How far back will it play? Is it a real three shot hole, you know? Or is it that the second shot getting home a real heroic shot?
Right?
To get there it's already a tough blind shot, but to get it there is it? Is it an extra bit of heroism that that maybe was intended? So I'm certainly excited about six. And then I'm curious generally, like where the tea boxes are positioned. You know, we've seen the PGA Tour dabble with that t at nine right that that's kind of to the right of eight, Like where do they experiment with this? So I my time to you, though you are intimately familiar with the venue.
I've been there, I've seen championships there, But for me, some of these part fives and six being prominent is what I'm looking at.
Yeah, I mean, I suppose I am familiar with it at this point. But the funny thing is is that when I lived very close to Pebble Beach Golf Links, right, I wasn't all that familiar with it because I didn't spend that much time out there. I went to still Water Cove on picnics with my family, using the coastal
access that they provide out there pretty frequently. So I saw a lot of holes four and five and seventeen, which are kind of the holes that you see when you go out to Stillwater Cove and use that sort of public portion or public access portion of the property. But I didn't, I mean, I didn't play Pebble Beach a whole lot. When I lived in Pebble Beach, I was living on the campus of Stevenson School, which is
a boarding school where I used to teach. I lived in a house on campus with my family, and so we were right next to Spyglass Hill, right next to Poppy Hills, right next to Pebble Beach. But the place that I played was Poppy Hills. So but since then, you know, as a number of the golf media, I've gotten the privilege of playing the course a few times
and that has been really exciting. And you know, there's a lot of critiques to be made of Pebble Beach, but you have to remember that at the base of it, this is an extremely stunning, remarkable golf course. One set of holes or one hole really that I'm excited to
see the women play. And it's a set of holes in the sense that there are other holes at Pebble Beach that functions sort of like this, But focus in on the tenth hole, which is supposed to be a long brute of a par four right along the coast. The big challenge of the hole is not just that cliff and then Carmel Beach below it. You know, that's the the hazard that everybody focuses on. Your eye goes
straight there when you're standing on that tee. But I think the real challenge of the hole is the left to right tilt of the fairway. That tilt is so significant there. That slope is a lot more severe than it looks on TV. On TV, it looks kind of flat, but when you're there, it's a very high left side to a very low right side. It's a little bit flatter the closer you get to the coastline. And that's
a principle that you see throughout Pebble Beach. That's the same case on nine, it's the same case on six. So on ten you have that massive tilt right, and the more you play away from the coast off the tee, the more you have to grapple with that slope on
your approach. The ball is going to be below your feet as a right hander, or well above your feet as a left hander, which is going to promote a ballflight that takes your ball to the right, which is toward the coast, and so everything is going to be pushing you that direction, especially if you play away from
the cliffs off the tee. If you go a little bit nearer to them, then you'll have somewhat more level of a lie, and you'll also have a safer angle into the green which does open up from the coastline stretch. And so that's how the hole is supposed to function. Now for the men, ten has become a much shorter hole. That hole is just you know, it's not what it's supposed to be that should be like a driver three
wood hole. And so I'm curious to see what it becomes for the US Women's Open, what teas they use, and what that hole is like for the distance that the women hit the ball, and whether the strategies of it having to do with the slope and the angles become more relevant for them. Uh.
An interesting aspect to that for a championship like this too. And Jeff Ogilvie I think has mentioned this to Andy or somewhere in a podcast starting on ten split teas. I mean, this is is pretty dramatic difference. It is certainly a pebble beach, with the one and two being fairly gentle.
Obviously, it's something that tour would do. The Patrick read right.
Right right, Yeah, I mean you get that, you know, you get that first tea time, early morning tea, you go early at off ten and it's kind of a it's a real way to wake up, right, It's a real real way to kind of slap you in the face compared to going off one. Right, and you have
some tough cold holes. Fourteen can kind of you know, punch you, and you know one through four aren't the hardest, right, It's a pretty dramatic difference, and so that I know Ogilvy has talked about that, it can be a pretty significant impact depending on what time you catch your off ten tea time.
So yeah, so you know that brutality of the tenth hole. I'm excited to see whether that comes back. And I don't mean that in a sadistic way. I'm just saying that's what the hole should be. It hasn't been that for a long time for fields in men's golf, and so I'm just curious to see if it comes back in that way. The same case for thirteen. A lot of a lot of similar dynamics are relevant there. And then eighteen. You know, like you were discussing with six,
what is eighteen? Is it reachable at all? Is in an automatic three shot hole? Are the women going to be trying to play kind of close to the little cliffs there or are they going to shy away from it and take the long route around. I really would like to see the position of those balls in the fairway, and I hope that the telecast shows us some of that. But relying on things from the telecast, especially when it comes to women's majors, has become a little bit difficult, right.
Sure does a tree come in to play there more prominently than it has obviously for the men. You know, Andy and I made a note often of Chez Rev playing that hole. I think it was like he hit at the exact same distance in twenty nineteen. It was like two seventeen or something deliberate sort of I don't know, hybrid of some sort. I'm not sure. But what how do they play that? How do they set it up?
I think six eighteen. Certainly, it's just great to see a place that we are so familiar with play perhaps a little differently, and hoping the USGA and the telecast bring that out, bring that aspect.
Now, speaking of the USGA bringing it out, I have to mention some of the mowing lines that we saw at the media day for the US Women's Open. You know, it's pretty typical stuff for championships at Pebble Beach. We're familiar with the shrinking of the fairways that happens between the pro am and a US Open at Pebble Beach,
Like this is not unprecedented. I had a little bit of hope that they wouldn't do the same thing for this field, that it wouldn't be as necessary in their minds to narrow the fairways because the length of pebble Beach is still a great defense, I think for the US women's Open field in a way that it's really not for a men's field. But when we went to the media day, we saw some mowing lines that, in my opinion, are just in the wrong place, and I understood why they did it, but I was still a
little bit sad and stricken about it. They've brought in the mowing line from the left on number four. The left on that hole is the bailout away from the ocean, So they're essentially forcing players to play toward the coast on that hole. And fine, you know, you can do that. Maybe people will like seeing the players not get to bail away from the coast. But the way that hole works is that it should be an option that you
play near the ocean right. That should be a choice that you make, a risk that you've decided to take, because if you go out to the left, that angle on your next shot into the fourth green is terrible, Like it's such a hard short iron or wedge from over there, it's really really difficult and so that's the punishment for going out to the left. But now that punishment has been doubled by the rough, and nobody would miss there intentionally, and so the choice has been taken away.
It's not meaningful to play near the cliffs on that hole because everybody needs to and so that's my objection to that mowing line on four. They've also, maybe more tragically, brought in the mowing line on six from the right. The right side of six is the cliffs. Yes, so if you play near the cliffs, if you take the risk of playing near the ocean on the sixth hole in this tournament, then you're going to be in the rough,
which is just backwards. You should be able to play out there for the reward of a more level lie, because if you play up to the left, the ball is going to be below your feet for a right hand or above your feet for a left hander, and it's just going to be trickier to try to reach that green in two. Now I get why for a men's field they might narrow that fair way and say, you know, nobody's going to be playing near the coastline anyway, we want them to have that challenging shot with the
unleveled lie and see if they can execute it. They're probably going to be hitting an iron, and so we need to provide that extra challenge for them. But I don't think it's going to be irons for most of the women's field. I think it's going to be some
headcovers coming off. And I would have loved to have seen them get to play near the coast, take that risk so that they have a better lie and a better chance of pulling out that four wood, that three wood and going after the green from near the cliffs. It would be it's it's such a great shot, like it's such such a great hole, and that that that new fairway line. It just sort of it. This might sound a little melodramatic, but it really it breaks my heart.
What did they bring it in? Are we talking about? You know, fifteen twenty yards of rough now on the on the coastline there. That's right Tiger's shot in two thousand, right that the famous, not infamous, but famous shot was that was that was buried in rough? No where you kind of muscle is one up.
To it might have been, Yeah, I mean he was definitely hitting out a rough there. That may have been the mowing line at the that might be the state. That may have been the mowing line at at that US Open. I'm not exactly sure. I'd don't think it was the mowing line at the twenty nineteen US Open. I believe that fairway was all the way out to the cliffs. Now, somebody can fact check me on that. I'll check it outter this podcast, because yeah, I could
go back to the shot link. But pretty sure that was a new fangled thing as far as recent history is concerned at Pebble Beach, because we did talk to a couple of people who may have been involved in that decision, and they described it as as something that is, you know, fresh for this championship, we're forcing players to take on the bunkers on the left and go up there, and again it's just taking away that choice.
Well, it's similar to what you just described about what you're excited for with ten right. I mean, there's an option there to play a flatter and.
Can you imagine if they brought in that mowing line for I mean, they may have brought it in a little bit from the left so that there's less of a bail out over there. I'm not exactly sure on that one, but if they had brought that in from the right, on that little peninsula that's out there on the fairway, that would have been really tragic.
Right right. I Just like with the best players in the world, we want to see them wrangle with variables that quite honestly, the rest of us don't. Like the rest of us just more often than not, hit it and try to successfully move the ball forward. We don't have. We rarely have the ability to execute the strategy we want, like playing to a flatter part or having to hit
off an uneven lie. Like, we want to see them have to wrangle with those variables and make the choice between executing a strategy or executing an you know, a shot off and uneven lied. What's the choice there? And so I think we want to see that from the best in the world. And it's a little unfortunate to hear maybe that some of that is being taken away in favor of I don't know, brutality or score keeping, score protecting.
And we often hear from people who focus on data driven course management that angles as we're discussing them here aren't really relevant for elite pro players. Given their dispersion cones, they can't reliably aim at a particular spot and hit it, and so that affects the way that you should approach a golf course in terms of hunting angles. Now, when it comes to the players in the US Women's Open field, you know, what they can do is hit really accurate shots.
They can be really precise. If they have a wide fairway, they can choose not necessarily a particular spot, but at least like a section of that fairway that is more aggressive or more conservative than another. And I think that if we gave this field wider fairways that they would get to make those choices a little bit and it
would be interesting to watch. Now, on the other hand, there's an argument that, you know, narrow fairways for extremely accurate players, they can still work with those, And I think they'll still be able to work with a lot of the playing fields out it Pebble Beach. I think it'll be fine. It won't be something that's maybe even super noticeable to non nerd golf fans, but just had to note that it did. Yeah, it did make me a little sad to see some of those changes.
Before we move off completely on four and six, and some of the mowing lines. Obviously those dispersion cones are a little tighter, as you mentioned for the women, that there's a little more accuracy there. On four. Do you think they set that up as drivable as it is for the men or maybe they did. Maybe they didn't intend for to be drivable in nineteen, but there were certainly most a handful of guys taking a rip and
just trying to run it through that neck. I wonder if that's an element for the women, if there's a tea box they set up that makes it, in theory drivable, it's a good question.
I don't know. I'm not sure where they would need to put that tea box. I think something like it probably exists because there are a lot of different teeing areas at Pebble Beach, given that it's a resort course. Yeah. No, I'd be curious to see that they do. They do love having, you know, a driveable part four.
Yeah, and to make clear that you know, it's not driveable in the way that they're they're landing it on top of it. You know, there were guys taking driver and trying to run it up as far as they could some rent it onto the front edge. It's it's not a pure sort of you know, aerial attack there.
So yeah, all right, Brendon, let's take a quick break for an ad and then when we're back we'll do a little Moderey Golf Guide. We'll kind of improvise it, but we're going to be talking about Monterey golf in general outside of Pebble Beach that's coming up. This episode is brought to you by Golf Genius. Your club may use the golf Genius Tournament Management system for your club events and tournaments. At the Fried Egg, we use it for all of our events and it has worked great
for US registration, scoring, leaderboards, results. Golf Genius handles all of that and does it right. Golf Genius also has a great product for the pro shop staff. Golf Genius Golf Shop is used to streamline special merch orders, track stock orders, manage demo clubs, simplify staff scheduling, organize club repairs, and automate communication with club members. It's a great productivity
tool that saves time, money, and hassles. But most importantly, it really improves member service, which is a big win win. Hundreds of clubs are using the platform today and are fired up about the benefits. If you're involved in the golf shop business, we recommend you check out golf Genius. Just go to golfgenius dot com to learn more. All Right,
we're back to talk about Monterey golf in general. I have appointed myself the expert on this, and I apologize to everybody for doing that, but this is how it has turned out. I did live there for a while and fairly recently. This is is where I was living before I started working for the Fried Egg, and I was living in what was to me free housing. And so after I quit that job and decided to join the Fria Egg, which is a decision that I still
very much endorse and am happy about. One of one of the downsides of that decision is that we had to move to another state because we couldn't we couldn't afford the real estate in California anymore, much less in Pebble Beach where we are living. So so that's that's the basic backstory for why I'm talking about golf in Monterey.
Maybe we could start by talking about public golf courses, but I'll kind of maybe turn things over to you a little bit Brendan and and hear you know what you're curious about when it comes to moderate golf from the perspective of somebody who's you know, I think you've been there a couple of times, right, I have.
I've been there, been there a few times. Obviously, was there in the nineteen US Open. Not played golf.
You haven't played much around, That's what I was going to ask. Have you played like Pacific Grove or Poppy Hills or any of the courses around there.
I walked Pacific Grove, I played played one course there that you would like to play play, played the probably the best one in the area. Oh yeah, that's right, Very fortunate to do that.
Yeah, of course that might be considered the best course in America. I think we're talking about.
But that's about it, I think. And I played Inland at the Preserve one day, so that was that. I had not played Pubble though. I guess I'm curious hearing you talk about living there. It's a very unique part of the country with unique clientele. Randomly quickly what's like the what is like the for lack of a better term, town gown relations between this giant resort that everyone wants and people who actually lived there. I presume that people who lived there, and I do like this is why
I think you are an expert. You can be the self appointed expert because I think you look at it through a realistic, critical lens. Probably a lot of people who live there are drinking the kool aid and you know, and I'm not suggesting it's bad, but just objectively right, you are obsessed with Pebble Beach if you lived there and you think it's the greatest course that's ever been made, or you know the I just think you bring an objective lens to some of the drawbacks and certainly what
makes it so great. I'm curious what it's like being a resident there and how you you know, this attraction of this world famous course that's also kind of this machine of a resort now.
And a lot of people in the area work for the Pebble Beach Company, So that's another thing, like the Pebble Beach Company is a huge employer in the area. It's a funny little collection of towns out there, and it is collection of towns. There's Monterey, there's Specific Grove, There's Carmel by the Sea. As with the dashes is the full name of the town. Carmel is its own thing. Pebble Beach is also its own thing. It's the area
within the gates, right, It's the Delmonti Forest. It's where Pebble Beach, Cypress Point, the links of Spanish Bay and Poppy Hills all are all those courses are, you know, in that area that we call Pebble Beach. Then there's the inland town of Carmel Valley. There's Seaside and Marina, which are the sort of outlying towns in the area, perhaps less picturesque, right, And so there's a lot of
different experiences for people who live in the area. From the perspective of a golfer, the funny thing about living in the area is that unless you're a member of Monterey Peninsula Country Club or Cypress Point, then more than likely you're not playing golf at the most famous courses in the area. Instead, you're playing at a collection of different courses. Is And the thing is, some of those courses are really really good, and and so those are the ones I'm excited about.
Yeah, I want to ask you about that. So, so Pebble Beach is, you know, nominally an accessible golf course. You can get on it, you don't have to.
You know, you can pay, you can book a t time, you don't have to. Yeah, it's not private. Is basically the only the only thing.
But for me looking at it, it's it's it's a pretty if not inaccessible, it's a pain. It's going to be a painful trip cost wise and time wise for most people are probably traveling from a fair distance. And what I guess i'd want to know is what makes it worth your while? Where can you add sort of on top of that the accessible, making it making that
trip really sing and pop? What what else is in the area beyond sort of the show piece of spending the money at Pebble Beach to really make your trip that time that you spend and getting out there a little more valuable and efficient.
Okay, so I've got a list of courses here now. First of all, Pebble Beach is astonishing. I'm not going to tell people you need to go play it, because I would never tell anybody you need to spend two three thousand dollars on anything, right, because not every not everybody has that ability to just drop that amount of money on a golf course experience. You usually need to stay at the lodge in order to get a tea time, so that's another expense at it. On top of it,
it is very pricey. I would say it's worth it, you know, if you can afford it, do it absolutely a once in a lifetime experience and get out there and do it. If the cost is too much for you, if you just don't want to spend that amount of money on a golf experience, totally understandable. I would say, try to go to a day of the at and T Pebble Beach pro am. You can get out on the course, you can go see every hole. It can be a fun tournament to watch that's spread out among
three different courses. The crowds are sometimes not that heavy on the first couple of days of that tournament. If you're not going to play the course, that's a really good alternative way to experience it, all right. So what I'd recommend for the other courses, Like for me, the highlights of the region in terms of public golf would be Pacific Grove, which is the municipal course of the town of Pacific Grove. That place has what is now a back nine used to be the front nine that's
in legitimate dunes. In fact, I would say it's probably in the best dunes in the area, aside from the dunes that are in one section of Spyglass Hill and a few holes at Cyprus Point. There's a little dune system that those courses occupy on some holes that's pretty stunning too. But the dunes at Pacific Grove are absolutely incredible, and the routing of that nine holes is so good. There's a couple of dud holes the tenth hole, the eighteenth hole, but every hole in between is just brilliant.
And I love that golf course so much. It's my favorite place to be in play golf. Like literally, I wouldn't rather be anywhere else. If I had a last round, I might go and play that nine holes a couple of times. The inland holes are not as good. I think they can be a little bit underrated. They get bashed to a degree that I think is a little bit unfair. But the inland holes are the front nine.
They're a little bit squeezed by the neighborhood. Now there's some trees that are there for safety reasons that limit the holes a little further, but One thing to keep in mind is that that nine actually existed before the Dunes nine, and it was designed by Chandler Egan, who did a famous renovation of Pebble Beach in nineteen twenty nine that gave Pebble Beach a lot of the strategic character that it has now. He was somebody who worked with Alistair mackenzie and really knew what he was doing.
And I think that the nine holes that he designed at Pacific Grove were good and have been affected by what has grown up around it. So Pacific Grove is the first one I'd mentioned. I also think Poppy Hills is a great deal now. It was probably a better deal when I live there than it is now. Keep in mind that I lived there before the pandemic, and
so a lot has changed in golf post pandemic. There are more crowds at golf courses, some of the green fees have gone up, etc. So I think there's still a good deal to be had at Poppy Hills, especially if you look at the twilight rate, which is almost always really solid, and if you're a Northern California Golf Association member, if you're an NCGA member, which I was,
when I lived there. It's a fantastic value. That's an excellent golf course that got a bad reputation because the first version of that golf course was not very good. It was referred to as sloppy poppy.
Yeah, it generally derided. So I think this means something to have somebody like you put your voice to it, because it's often been maybe that that's just a prior history that it's not or you know, people aren't up to speed on what's happened.
It underwent a complete renovation in the mid twenty tens, and in fact that that renovation was actually by the same firm that initially built it, Robert Trent Jones Junior. But they kept most of the routing but completely changed the golf holes. They sandcapped the entire site so it plays really firm out there, and redesigned the holes so that there's a lot of strategy, a lot of width, a lot of fun, a lot of character. I think
that's an excellent golf course. Now since I've been there, they've built some houses around it that weren't there before. I think maybe it's you know, it's going downhill instead of going uphill. But if the golf holes are still there, then I think it's a fantastic place there. There are some holes out there that you're just like, name your hot current architect, they would have been happy to design a hole that's this strategic and this fun. And then finally,
I'd recommend going to Pasa Tiempo. You know, you got to drive. It's in Santa Cruz. It's in a different area, but we've talked about Pasa Tampa before on the podcast. We probably don't need to go in depth here, but
if you go to Monterey, make the trip again. The green fees going up, So I don't know how much longer I'm going to be saying to people you need to play Pasa Tiempo, because it might get to the point where I'm like, I don't know if I want to recommend a course that is this expensive to play, but still right now it is very, very worth it. It's one of the best golf courses in California, one of the best golf courses in America. Go see it.
I'm not asking you to savage anything. Are there any that you may not It's obviously there's a lot of options in the area. I've always heard about Spanish Bay being a particularly I don't know, it's costly to get punched in the face if you're not a great golfer. Views hotel I hear are fantastic and all that. But is there anything that maybe I don't want to suggest is overrated or you should not play you cannot go, but something that you would not choose to put in your itinerary.
All right, let me break this down into two categories. Okay, if you're just taking a trip to Pebble Beach, you don't want to play a maybe course. More than likely you don't want to play a course that somebody is like, uh, you could play that, or maybe don't. The maybe courses on my list are Spyglass Hill, Carmel Valley Ranch, and Monterey Pines. Now Monterey Pines doesn't really belong in this category.
It's an affordable military golf course that I played most of my golf at because it has the cheapest green fee in the area and I really like it, and so I just wanted to mention it. But if you're on a trip to the area, maybe play moner A Pines. Like there's probably got other things on your itinerary that are that are more urgent, is.
That the one with the airplane lights or the trip on it in the middle of the course, And I.
Love those, Like it's one of those little things like, yeah, it has it's right next to the right, next to like the airport where all the pj's like land. Right, It's a golf course that you see when you're when you're fancy and flying into that airport and you drive out of it and you see a few of the holes, and I just always really love playing golf there. I think the superintendent there does such an awesome job. My buddy Austin Daniels, and so I just wanted to mention it.
But yeah, you know, if you're on if you're on a dream trip, you're not going to Monterey Pines, all right. The other maybe courses would be Spyglass Hell and Carmel Valley Ranch now spy Glass Hill. It's a classic. I don't ever want to see anybody go there and say I want to get rid of the Robert Trent Jones here and install more fashionable architecture, Like I think that course should stay just as it is, because it is a of its era and of its architect Robert Trent Jones.
The holes in the dunes get mostly attention, and I think that's partly because they're extremely beautiful close to the ocean, in spectacular dunes, and also they're fun holes to play like. They're kind of they're shorter because the property is sort of limited around there. They have some quirky greens. The fourth green is so odd and fun. It's like this really narrow strip with some undulation in it. It's like
nothing else Robert Trent Jones built. And then you go to the rest of the course and it's more familiar Robert Trent Jones stuff, with the greens up on ridges, fair ways that go down and then up some ponds in front of greens. You know, if you've seen a Robert Trent Jones course pretty much anywhere, then you'll be familiar with what you get in the inland portions of Spyglass Hill. It's not to say that it's bad. It's
a really good test of golfing ability. It's tough, but it's very very so I'd say that if you're going to Monterey for a few days, that Spyglass Hill is a maybe Carmel Valley ranch kind of the same deal. That's a peat Die golf course. It's in Carmel Valley. People don't talk about it very much. I really like a lot of the golf holes out there. There's some fun Pete Die stuff. Main problem with it from my perspective is that you cannot walk it. It is impossible to walk.
I'm somebody who walks almost every course. Even if I'm told in the pro shop, like you probably shouldn't walk this course. I'd always always try to walk Carmel Valley Ranch. You can't do it. There's like ten minute drives in the golf cart between certain greens and teas and so, Yeah, just wanted to mention a lot of people don't know there's a peat Die golf course in the Moderay area.
Yeah, so I'm giving you maybe a curve ball here. You've mentioned you know Egan, You've mentioned Trent Jones, You've mentioned now Pete Die Die.
Like.
There have been eras of in continuous development, right there was a centerpiece like Pebble Beach and Cyprus Mackenzie like these originals, and obviously a lot has sprung up and developed around there. You're talking about houses still being built on poppy hills. What is Is there any opportunity left? Is there a no? Is there anything understanding? California regulatory environmental costs is a challenge. And I told you I went to the preserve. Is there like an inland preserve?
Is you know, a different kind of deal of an interesting round there? Definitely not walkable.
Yeah, I have not played the preserve, so so you've you've definitely been a place that I haven't been. It's a Tom Fazio course. It's it's in a beautiful location, right yeah.
Yeah, it's like one of those it takes a mile, you know, you feel like you're gonna fall off the side of the mountain get in there. It takes a you know, twenty minutes to go a mile because of the drive. I played that round with Brandle. Pretty interesting on there with the preserve.
To take this discussion off line, try.
To remember that that that round in my head now, h my goodness. But but that is like that's a fuzzyo. Like you know, golf is a part of the area. It has all the land. Has it been maxed out? Do you feel like when you were driving around there as a resident, Wow, that could be an actual new great golf course. Whether it's public or whatever, it may be part of the resort. Do you feel like maybe a modern era, there's an opportunity to keep building on that sort of the legacy of golf in the area.
There's plenty of open land around. I mean, there's a lot of it. You've been to the preserve, that's basically nothing but open land out there. Right now. I don't know how they built the preserve. I don't know how they accomplished that. I really it's a mystery to me
that they were even able to do that. And I just don't think that you can do that anymore in that area, not because there's not enough land, but just because of the regulatory environment and just the fact that there's not really any golf courses being built in California except for some sections of Napa Valley. So yeah, I think that we've got basically all the golf courses that were going to get in that area. But things could
change in the future. We'll see. I can't predict what it's going to be like to develop golf courses in California in the twenty thirties, and so things might change, But right now, I really don't see much potential for new stuff being built that more or less stopped, I think with the Preserve and if I'm missing a more recent course than my mistake. But it's been a while now, I didn't quite get to the courses that I think you should avoid actively when you go out to moder Ay.
One of those is Spanish Bay. And you know, I like, I'm not saying that this is a terrible golf course. You're looking at the ocean all the time. There's something to be said for that. I have all the respect in the world for Sandy Tatum, who has involved in the design of this course, and for Tom Watson, who is also involved. But I just don't, you know, especially at the price point, I don't think it's worth going out there when there are so many other better options.
And also you can go out to Spanish Bay, walk onto the golf course in the evening and listen to a bagpiper. Go see the bagpiper. It's a little bit touristy. You might you might be cringing at this. You might be saying, ah, that that sounds sounds a little bit lame. But I'm telling you, if it's a nice night and a good sunset, and you go out there with the
daily bagpiper in the evening, you're going to feel some things. Now, public courses, I don't I don't want to make a habit of like bashing public courses that are accessible, But there are a couple of courses that get held up as kind of hidden public gems in the Monterey area, and I just want to be honest with people and say that I don't think that these are the places
that you should go for public golf in the area. Delmani, which is owned by the Pebble Beach Company and is not exactly affordable, not much of a golf course there, but it is kind of the original golf course in the area. I think it's the oldest one, and so I'm not sure what it used to be, but there's
there's not much there now that I would recommend. And then the one that really gets kind of whispered about by some people saying like, ooh, this is you know, you might you might hear about Pacific Grove and Pasa Tiempo, but go to Bayonet and black Horse this it's a thirty six hole public facility. I don't recommend it, don't. I don't think the design is very good, a lot of catch basins, not a lot of not a lot of coherent strategy out there. I don't think it's I
don't think they're very good golf courses. And again I praise them for being a public facility where people can play on a consistent basis. But if you're choosing among options, go to Pacific Grove, go to Poppy Hills, go to Quail Lodge, long before you go to Baynett and Black Corse. So those are those are my takes. There anything else here you're you're curious about, Brendan uh No.
I mean I think development was a big one. I was kind of thinking of as you've risked rattled off these kind of eras and and to be to be clear, like I think I try to you know, I I operate in this world with you guys, obviously with Andy and you and being really sharp minds on the architectural front. I also then try to like go and talk to my neighbors and like what do what do what do?
Like you know, just guys going on a trip, like they want the bagpiper they want, Like I don't think there's there's something to be said for like the meaning they get for just walking out on Pebble Beach and playing it and taking a picture and saying they played it, and that there is a weight to that that I try to appreciate beyond. And I'm not saying you guys don't eat. I'm not saying you don't either, But like when.
We missed it, right, we are. We are deep in the weeds on this stuff, and sometimes that makes you not notice things that, like, you know, right, for lack of a better term, normal people might prioritize the one.
The one I always come back to with this is Oldhead, quite honestly, like Old Head is architecturally offensive, it's a
it's a ripoff. It's expensive, and there's so much great golf you can play in Ireland and around, but like these guys that go there, it means something and it's it's cool to them, right they said, I played on the edge of the cliff and it was stunning, And yes, there we can tell them why it shouldn't, you know, there's better options, and why they were ripped off, But like that is not always the purpose of some of these trips. And I think when we talk about the
Monterey and Pebble Beach area. A lot of people are going there for some meaning that gets beyond just their strategic enjoyment or their enjoyment of the golf even itself, just the golf itself, and you know, there's a pushback on why that's the case.
So yeah, absolutely, And from that perspective, you might promote Spyglass Hill in the recommendations. That's a course where they play a big PGA Tour tournament every year, that's by a designer that a lot of people know the name of, and that's really challenging and impressive to look at. So Spyglass Hill, I've often heard from people is their favorite
course in the area. You know, especially when I hear from really good players who don't necessarily consider themselves architecture walks, I often hear from that type of player, man, spy Glass Hill is so pure. I hear that word a lot associated with Spyglass Hill Pure. So if you know of a golfer who is you know, tends to refer to certain golf courses as pure as the highest thing that they can be. And I think usually what they mean by that is that the conditioning is really good
and it's pretty and it's challenging. Spyglass Hill is all of those things. The conditioning is absolutely aces for what they're going for there.
Well, I hear that refrain a lot, what you just spoke of, And I never even lived in the area, So.
Yeah, yeah, love Spyglass that like it better than Pebble Beach, you know, you do. You hear that a lot, and so yeah, you gotta you've got to give some airing to to that feeling about the place for sure. All Right, Well, thank you so much Brendan for for bearing with me through the Monterey Gift Guide. I thought, I hope that was informative and fun for people to hear about. It's an area that I really have a lot of affection for and I can't wait to see the US Women's
Open go there. So thanks a lot, Brendan. Talk to you soon, all right, Thank you. This episode of the Frida Egg Podcast was edited by Matt Rusius. Thank you, Matt. I wanted to take a moment here at the end to talk about an upcoming event that the Frida Egg is holding. It's called the Junction. It's on August eighteenth, and it's being held at common Ground Golf Course. Near Denver, Colorado. Common Ground is to me one of the most special
places in American golf. First of all, it's an extraordinarily well designed public golf course. Tom Doak and his crew reimagined this course on a low budget and just did so many interesting things out there, like genuinely innovative things that you have to see. You have to see these greens, the way they built the bunkers, the way they figured out the strategies of the holes on a fairly quiet
piece of ground. I mean, there's just so much fascinating design out there that I think goes beyond like just being good public golf. This is really great modern golf design, and I think anybody who's interested in where architecture is going next should go see common Ground. The other part of Common Ground that's so special to me is the caddie academy that they have there. If you go to common Ground, you can get a young caddy to go out and carry your bag, and these kids are just delightful.
You know. I really like having a caddy who's a teenager and somebody who's just getting started in life and who's out there trying to do things, and that really characterizes the common Ground caddies that I've had. I think it's a model for what a caddy program can be in the twenty first century. So not only do you get a really fantastic golf course, but you also have access to the experience of a caddy in a way
that you very rarely get in public golf. So those are two things that I really love about common Ground, and two reasons that going out to this event at the Junction I think would be a great idea for anybody who's able to go. It's on August eighteenth, and it's right around the US Amateur, so you if you're going to go to the US Amateur in Cherry Hills, which is not far away, then going to this event would fit right into the itinerary. So search for it online.
You can find more information about the Junction event a common Ground on our Friday Events page at golf Genius, So check that out and we hope to see you out there all right, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you against s