Ep. #9: Meredith Neizer

How are you doing ?

I know you don't have a business , I don't have a business , and this was even before the bar guys . He's like I know you don't have anything to sell , but just get back in the game , feel good , go meet people Network , try to learn some things . I'm grateful to Kevin .

Shout out my boy , because I'm now here at the Freight Waves F3 in Chattanooga , tennessee .

I said where's your guy's name badge is at ? Yeah , no , we don't do that anymore and you'll understand why in a little bit . I said okay , like you know , just being the green naive person that I am , I said it's like , look , but you're going to have one of the best nights of your life .

And here's the only thing I'm going to tell you have the best time of your life , but if I don't see you down in the lobby at 8am tomorrow morning , we're going to have a problem . And I said that seems like a very why would you say that ? That sounds very interesting of you to say that .

And I learned very quickly , stepping into the lobby bar , exactly what he was getting at , because I immediately , just , you know , people start , you know , you know the look . People start eyeballing the corner of their eye , pretending like they're looking but not looking and everyone's trying to get a sense of who you are . Well , little did I know .

When you enter a room , that's 90% carriers , brokers , et cetera and you're the one 10% , that's the carrier . That's game on right and that's where things start to get crazy . So , needless to say , I ended up with , you know , more drinks in my hands than I could carry , and that led to a very eventful evening . I did make it .

You'll be pleased to know that . I did make it downstairs the following day . I did attend the conference and I did have a great time , but that was quite interesting . So that's from the shippers perspective .

If people know you , they know you , or maybe there's some whispering that happens and they figure out who you are . But yeah , I try to stay away from the directories and the name badges and whatnot going forward . So it's interesting . I'm curious to get your perspective because , like , people go there to sell , right .

I mean , yeah , you're there to network , but it's really you're there to meet people , you're there to sell . So now that you've heard my perspective on that , what was your approach for you going to sales conferences ? How are you able to stand out , how are you talking to prospective customers , et cetera .

And I've got some friends , you know , having worked at Coyote with a lot of people who moved around to different companies . I've got friends at a bunch of different brokerages . So you know we all hang out and you know we introduce each other to some customers in events like this , you know . So this was an after hours event .

It was one of the Nashville bars , one of those rooftop bars that has the kind of island bar that you could be fully around , and so I had gone there to meet my friend , clay from Uber , oh yeah , and , and Clay was there with a customer and he was also there with a couple other I think one or two other Uber folks , and I knew who the customer he was

there with was . So I was like I'm going to , I'm going to , I'm going to come hang out and I'll say hi or whatever . And so I get there and this bar is packed so like it's very hard to move around and whatnot . And I'm on one side of the bar and on the other side is Clay and another gentleman who will be a guest here soon .

I'm not going to bring him up yet , I'm in the customer . So I decided , hey , I'm going to order around a shots and I'll send them over to you guys and then I'll walk over . And it was going to take me a few minutes to walk over there to come meet and say hi . And so I do that . I tell the bartender he pours , I think , five shots for you guys .

Like if you're going to these things , people are spending a lot of money . Right , you're spending a couple thousand dollars , you're clearing your calendar , you're spending a couple days here . Like how do people get the most value out of a conference ?

Right , like that's , that's , like the key is people are not there to just hang out at the bar and have a good time .

There's a balance that needs to take place there , and so I don't know , what do you recommend to people that are kind of considering whether they should be going to conferences or not , and , if they do go , how should they use their time most effectively ?

You want to be proactive . You want to be getting on shippers schedules way in advance , if you can . A lot of people are just going to .

You know , if you don't know them yet and you're a prospect , they might not even respond to your email , but you can't be afraid to walk up to someone and start a conversation and you don't have to go buy them a drink , necessarily , but you just kind of be willing to be a little uncomfortable , say hello , introduce yourself and don't sell , like don't go in

and just immediately start pitching someone . It's funny . There was I remember being at CSCMP a different year and and uh , vogue Rich and I were there , my partner Matt Vogue Rich , our Molo's old president and COO and uh , he and I both were .

We saw a customer that we really wanted to talk to as a big company and we were like , oh , that guy looks scary . I mean he was intimidating guy , uh and , and I think we rock paper scissored and he lost . And I just watched him walk over to say hi . I watched the guy look down at his badge , look up at him and go no , that's just the end of it .

But like , that's what you got to do , you got to shoot your shot . You got to go introduce yourself and just you know , trying to get to know people I think is is a smart thing versus just you know , trying to sell your services all the time .

Um , and on top of that , you know , I would say the sessions are can be interesting . You got to find the right sessions that actually make sense , where you can learn something , especially if there are shippers speaking on it . Go and be engaged and try to understand what they're telling you about their business , because they're not there just spewing nonsense .

They're there to talk about the challenges . They're there to talk about the things that they're working on . Okay , open your ear . Put your phone down , stop scrolling Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever nonsense you're scrolling , listen and then afterwards go talk to them about it or send them an email about it , whatever it was . Uh , take an interest .

I think that's my kind of advice . I should say .

And , to your point , I think , where where I find more value , it's not , hey , when you're waiting and like literally waiting in line to come talk to me , and then you come up and you immediately get into the sales pitch . That's a massive turnoff , right .

It is helpful , though , is what you described earlier , which is , hey , I know a guy who knows a guy that knows you , or this person knows that person , and so it's really about initiating a connection , and then maybe you go and you do that sales pitch and that comes up later , but don't come like , especially at the end of the day .

I'm trying to unwind , I'm trying to have a good time . Yes , I'm talking business , yeah , I'm talking the industry , but if you come to me with your spit sales pitch at 1030 on , you know , tuesday night , like I'm , I'm sorry , I'm just not there for you , right ?

So establish the connection , maybe agree to meet up at a later date , but , yeah , avoid the full on sales pitch . A betterそれは date ? Yes , through handed , or I'm both extremely busy . That's our two cents . You got some out , what else ?

Don't remember which conference this was at , but a friend of mine , a large food shipper , I couldn't find my badge and nice and you needed it to get into the dinner and he was like he's like I'm tired , I don't want to go here , just take mine . And all of a sudden I was Alex , from large food company , and I wasn't like the plan wasn't to do this .

I didn't even realize it was happening until I walked into these , this buffet line , and all of a sudden , like some random person , I'm looking at down at the stakes or whatever that . It wasn't stakes , but whatever the little crappy food they had was , and I'm looking down , they're like , damn , that looks really good , don't you think ?

Alex and I was like what ? And then like three more people come up to me and I'm like , oh , oh , okay , I see what's happening here . So I sit down at this table and , of course , six people come and sit down next to me and they're like so , like what's going on ? Like hey , you know , we've been in your bid . Like what's , how are things going ?

Yeah , I'm like . I'm like there's just the devil on the shoulder . That's like do it screw with them . And then the angels , the angels not there . So the devil's the only one there . And so I do right this is . This was , I think , 2018 , 2019 . This was when the the blockchain Nonsense was being peddled in our industry .

Yeah , and I knew this was nonsense and so I said when I say , yeah , you know , our focus this year is just really on blockchain enabled carriers . So we're really planning to give like 80% of our business to are you guys blockchain enabled ? And I could tell like three of the six people had not heard the word yet .

I knew what it was and just watching them kind of fumble and be like we were working on that . We're developing that in-house and I only let it go for about 10 minutes for other guys . I just borrowed this badge . I am not . Yeah , alex , blockchain is not applicable to our industry today , at least , at least within actual freight brokerage .

Maybe it'll be useful in something else one day , but it was fun . I I know you're not supposed to do that , so I won't do it again , but that was a fun little .

. Today's guest has a career in supply chain and logistics that has spanned five decades , where she has spent time at seven companies Across 14 different roles , most recently joining our motto supply chain solutions as chief logistics officer .

Prior to starting her illustrious career , she was a trailblazer in pursuing women's rights to serve in combat roles in the military , having been appointed to serve in the White House working for the US Department of Defense . I'm also 99% sure she's the only guest that we've had on on that has been on C-span .

We're happy to welcome to the freight pod Meredith Nizer . Welcome to the pod , meredith . How you doing .

But I was one of the first class of women at a military academy , the US Virgin Marine Academy in King Point , new York , and they just had opened it up as Two women at that point , I applied , it was accepted and so 16 women , including myself , went in and to the maritime industry to break down the first barriers for Coeducational institutions at federal academies

in 1974 . So it was a daunting . We started 16 , we graduated eight . We lost half the class , which was a pretty standard Attrition rate for the class .

But at that point , two years later , all the other federal academies , like West Point , air Force , coast Guard , naval Academy , all started opening up for women based on the , the the ability to successfully make it through the first two years .

Academy education was pretty well known as a way to get a college education and certainly growing up in the military , you know , I knew what that world was going to be like . So I my thought was I was just following my brother you know , it's like well , who's that Air Force ? Let me go , you know , let me try another Academy .

And then I quickly Realized they were not open up to women . But that did not stop me from applying to an Atlas . So I apply and Of course I got my standard rejection letter . Thanks a lot for your application . We're not accepting women at this time .

But as a result of that application , it made its way up to Senator Ted Kennedy's office in Massachusetts , which is where my parents are from , and his staffer Looked at my application , called my mother I was doing my after high school work job , you know , at a store Called my mother and talked to her about my interest in going to a federal Academy and at the

time she they knew Kennedy's office , knew that the Merchant Green Academy was getting ready to open to women . And so the office Said asked my mother , and you think your daughter would like to go to the Merchant Green Academy . And so at the time I came home and my mother said hey , I just got a call from Kennedy's office .

This Merchant Green Academy is opening up to women and they asked me if you wanted to go . And I asked her . I said well , what did you say ? And she said I told them yes . And I said , oh . I said okay . I said what is it ? She said , well , I don't know . And I said , okay , well , where is it ? She's like , I don't know that either .

And I said but you told them yes , and she goes . Yeah , I told them yes because you want to go to Academy and that really is how I got into Kings Point . I might late . My advice to all kids is listen to your mother Because ultimately I went .

I love the industry , started in shipping , went out to see at 18 years old and got to see , get a taste of Maritime , the maritime world and global shipping , as well as getting to see the world and never looked back .

The Academy actually put a whole group of staff around us To make sure that they were communicating and engaging with us for any of the issues and problems that we had , because , guarantee , there were issues right , there were a lot of . Men there that were not interested in having women at the Academy , let alone opening up the other institutions .

But there was a commitment by Pink's point to make sure they did everything that they could to make to help us be successful .

So there was hands-on tension to us , the programs , when they sent us out to see being attentive to who , what ships we were assigned , who are our partner upperclassmen we're going to see with and then checking in with us to make sure that we were okay at the beginning and at the end of the the sea year .

So but at the end of the day , I think they were very attentive to selecting women that had a track record of , you know , success , that would understand how to Handle ourselves in what environment . That was predominantly men , that we were breaking no rules down .

And I think they were attentive to selecting women who had a high probability of being successful in the program and making it through the four years .

So I'm just curious what were some of those situations or events that you just Couldn't even be prepared for , and how are you able to overcome those types of challenges ?

But everybody got buzzed and we I think I knew about it but I didn't think it was going to be as bad as it was . So those kinds of things .

It really took a lot of my family coaching me and Sympathizing with me of look at yours one event , but remember there's an end game and you can get through your hair is going to grow back , all of those kinds of things that just come with being a 17 year old girl .

The other thing was just , you know , in your after your , your plea year , they send you to see in your sophomore and junior year for six months . That's your sea year again . You know we're off to the only woman on a ship . But my parents say thing my parents came and launched me off onto my first ship .

They had a one-on-one with the captain of the ship because he knew that he was going to have a young cadet , female cadet , on his ship . And I don't know what that conversation was , but I will say that you know he took very Good care of making sure that nothing happened to me in that first year .

I think part of that was because my parents , my mom and dad , were there , you know , to really talk through who I was , but also that they were giving him their precious daughter to go sail around .

Europe on a ship where I was the only woman , so so I really credit at early on we always talk about nurture versus nature , but I really credit my family , my parents kind of you know how they thought about leading into change , the willingness to challenge things that were maybe not fair , and but also I would say that my parents were very , very supportive and

making sure that I was set up for success in any way that they could be hands-on throughout those four years .

So I'm curious did you deal with a lot of that in coming into the program where there were a lot of men kind of giving you that you don't belong here ? What was that experience like ?

When there were things that as a regimen that we wanted to participate in , that , you know , because we they put us all in one company we stood out . So , yes , did we get penalized with demerits and things for Doing things that the rest of the midshipmen were doing ?

Yeah , so unfortunately our whole company would be marching , you know , on Barney Square for being caught in a group activity Because the women were part of it and they knew , you know , which company the women belong to , so off we would go .

There were times when they had formal events they didn't quite have the uniform set out for the women , so we rebelled but we were bell and we went in with , you know , gowns and things like that . Yeah , I was , I was shining floors for that again because we stood out .

But I would say there , you know , even at sea , you know if you are not wanted or targeted . Yes , there were events that happened , not so much with me but with other women that ran into problems , especially when they were out at sea .

And again , it depended on the company as to whether they would handle sexual harassment any time , any type of intimidation .

All of those things were very , very real , especially on ships , and we were saying thing I know it's a support , but the , the organization , the company was the one when who could make a difference as to whether the incident was handled appropriately or not appropriately . I was lucky in that I work , you know , and sale for a couple of companies .

They were big corporations that had solid HR policies around harassment and sexual harassment and intimidation , that that avenue was always open to me and , quite honestly , I got pulled into a couple of companies in helping with helping them set policies Because of my own experiences or experiences of other women that had run into problems in how to one set policies for

investigation as well as Training for the up-and-coming young women that were coming and going to be working on ships or working in a very non-traditional role in the maritime industry .

So I think I grew up knowing that or having the ability and watching my parents successfully fight for change , especially as it related to being an African-American but also being a woman

. So I think when I Decided to apply to anapolis , knowing that I was going to get rejected , I still had parents that said go ahead and apply , who knows , you might , maybe you'll slip in , you know , you just never know right .

Or that my and I remember my dad saying but no , will not kill you , it won't kill you , so as long as it's physically not going to hurt , you go ahead and apply .

Because I felt strongly that I was as qualified as any guy To be at a military academy and getting my education at a military academy and I think that passion and then being able to pivot by , quite by happenstance , that my application makes it to a place that puts me in line for an application with the Merchant Reed Academy .

That basically said , okay , you got where you want it . You're gonna be , you're gonna be a pioneer . You think you're tough enough ? you know I always felt I was smart enough . But what I ? What I wasn't sure is what I at 17 , was I gonna be tough enough ?

But at the end of the day is where I say it takes a village to get through the four years , and also my other peers and Also some , really , I have to say , some really great classmates who what you know for as many of the men that did want you there .

There are still other classmates who said you belong here and with all of that support then you just broke your way into being strong enough , with perseverance , to find your way through those four years , and I think that I learned that that must be . It has been part of my DNA .

before , it doesn't mean you can't be the forefront of instilling that change . Sounds like that was the right example on top of that , just the right kind of supportive parenting of saying no , can't hurt you , so why not ask ? And then just kind of the grit and perseverance to say you know why not me ?

You know I do have the toughness , and finding the support system around you it was like that kind of recipe is what drove you to get through into this position you're in .

They had about 70 tankers , international tankers and I learned about the shore side aspect of running ships , supplying demand , oil and all those kinds of things , and that was I had great bosses , I learned corporate America and and then I got just got bored with it . I just decided I wanted to go do something else other than working in office .

I feel like that wasn't a very , you know , sexy or sought-after industry at that point . So can you just talk a little bit more about what it was like , given your background , to go into that space and did you stand out in that way ? And you talked about getting bored really quick . Was that also ?

Part of it was because of what you had already dealt with , so can you talk about that a little more ?

. Probably well into my 30s , after I left Exxon did a White House fellowship , I think I was in search mode about what kind of work really making happy and it took a little while but I found out that I really am more hands-on day-to-day and I'm an ops person Very unusual , for women don't want it . You know , most women don't want to be front line .

But I realized that it took me a little while and I accumulated a lot of skills until I finally got to that point . But then it's like , yeah , put me in operations , I want to be down on the ground Still . I was still in shipping and in maritime , working on terminals , working with ships , working with people day to day .

Yet things moved and all during that time the industry and the profession evolved from shipping into supply chain . There's really kind of cool space in the last ten years that I have landed in , but but I Honestly it was mostly that I couldn't figure out what I really Enjoyed doing .

That would get me up in the morning and I'd be jazzed every morning doing , until I finally came to terms that it was going to be an operations type of role .

Can you spend a little bit more time talking about that exploration and how you were able to finally reach that conclusion that this was the right path for you ?

When I finished business school and came shore side working at Exxon which was great analytical training , it was an office , it had a lot of elements that were a lot of fun , but I just I was not that good at , or even happy at , being a number cruncher , so that was kind of OK .

You know , I always say you make decisions by trying things and then you realize no , that's not it , pivot , go try something else . So I went to Washington , I did a White House fellowship and it's like , oh well , maybe you know , maybe doing something on the policy side might be pretty interesting .

Did a White House fellowship assigned to Department of Defense , very comfortable with my military rat up ready , learned about regulation , law , policy , how judicial and executive branches were finished up that year , and it's like , no , this isn't it either . So I finished like yeah , no life inside the beltway is not me .

So then I thought , ok , let me go try working for a public agency . So I went and worked with the port of New York and New Jersey and , you know , did some business development . Love working in the trade center in New York , love the aspect of it Same thing , just not an office person .

But from there they put me down at New Jersey Marine terminals , back at terminal operations , managing back around ships , trucks , rail , all of that . And I felt I said , you know , this is closer to the kind of work that I really enjoy doing . And then I just had to decide a little bit of do you want to stay in the public sector ?

Do you want to go back to the private sector ? And I think at that point I realized it's like I'm a private sector person . Right , give me clear lines . You know of driving a business , driving profitability .

So at that point I had made a shift over to one of the leading maritime companies , a shipping company , sea Land , and that's where I landed in the next 10 years and I went in as a operational management .

In training it was at a senior management level but I went in and that's when I realized I rotated around from an IT job to a sales job , back out to terminal operations . But ultimately I found my real love and passion . And I think at that point that's when I knew I was an ops person .

But it took a bit of experimentation of trying a few different types of jobs before and being honest with myself about you know what I really like to do that finally I labeled myself an ops person and then I made my way through operations jobs with all the companies that I've worked with .

Going into that organization , I got some really wonderful opportunities for those 10 years that set me up for the next moves in my career At the end of the day .

You know , I really felt that even if I took a step back or a lateral step and many times it was a promotion up , I had gotten a very good experience on how to evaluate which way to go , based on the ultimate end game or goal I was trying to achieve .

This relates a lot to what I heard in our conversations with him around following jobs that are interesting to you and things that really generate your curiosity , rather than just being super focused on linear progression and promotions from job to job .

It's just you have such a fascinating career that I think Paul and I have struggled with just trying to get our arms around in a 60 to 90 minute interview and all the jobs and roles you've been a part of .

But I think an interesting call out here is your kind of pursuit of knowledge and following things that are interesting to you , versus just being committed to whatever job gets you the next promotion Right .

I can't get to where I want to get to , for whatever the reason was but I had always been good about pivoting and finding the organization and the job that put me back on track to something interesting or something that I wanted to do , and I think that gave me that skill of pivoting and willing to make a jump to another company .

I think has served me well , so that when you look at the whole of my professional career I always laugh because it looks like it adds up , it looks like it was very well planned but quite honestly , it was one step at a time . That .

But that ability to pivot and find something new that is interesting or challenging or something I really wanted to do , just served me well and certainly I was so much happier doing work that I thought was of value and that I for me and something that I was happy at doing . Okay , well , there's a lot to unpack there .

And my question , I guess , is to our listeners who have dealt with similar glass ceiling situations first of all , how do you identify that ? That's kind of where you're at . How do you identify that this feels like outside factors not having to do with my ability are impacting my ability to kind of continue rising in the organization ?

So step one there is kind of how do you identify that situation is happening ? And two , how do you start to think about how to navigate it ? And if you know in certain situations it's worth it to go around this event or to leave the company , how do you think about all of that ?

I always try to keep on my radar the candidates and the people who were selected for the job and understanding you know what made them more qualified or what made them qualified in general .

The other thing , though , is what really , as my career was really moving forward , was having a really good mentor , and not all organizations are as effective mentoring women and people of color , but that is what I think is important Mentoring women and people of color but that I found at least that mid-career .

I really needed a good mentor to basically be a proponent or an advocate for me in the room where it happens you're not going to be there , but who knows you well enough and is confident enough to advocate for you when positions are being considered for you know , when candidates are being considered for promotion , especially for the prime jobs , and so I will say

that a number of companies , especially mid to late career , I had very , very strong mentors . But also I knew by then I was a very strong package . I had already had a successful track record educationally and professionally , a great network .

That made it maybe a little more comfortable for executives to embrace me and want to mentor me moving through you know some of the primo , really prime positions within that company .

So you've been at this for a long time what advancements have you seen in terms of just helping to prepare or give resources to people that maybe haven't got them historically , and where do you still see that there's still opportunities in the space that companies need to be aware of ?

The other thing I think where it's come a long ways is just more formal diversity , inclusion , coaching that comes with people who are different than the majority . That has come a long way

. Where I have seen the opportunity is especially for this next generation coming up that are just starting their careers and have no idea how companies work , for whatever reason . They're just young , they're maybe idealistic about how it's supposed to work , it's supposed to be there . Those are .

I have been mentoring young just out of college kids as they head into their first jobs , helping them understand you know how corporate America works and coaching them as best as I can for some of the pitfalls that they're bumping into early on , right until they get the hang of it .

The other thing I think is missing is really just not only for this new next generation but even my peers how important that network is , that all along your career I'm telling you from high school on you want to be building a network of friends professional and personal friends that you always make the effort to stay in touch with , mostly because , one , you never

know where people are going to end up and two , I've always said it takes a village . You will always and I have always been reaching out to people in good times and bad , in support of some decision I might have to make .

And I don't know that we really educate this next generation of just how valuable a rich network of personal and professional people in your life will add to your decision making , problem solving , thought leadership . Some of them you're just grabbing ideas from and I always say one of my real secret skills is I've got a killer network .

I just have a killer network of people that keep me out of trouble but also help me resolve things that I'm trying to work on , do you say , keep you out of trouble ?

The nice part is even some of my board network has helped me in day to day current job issues , that functional expertise and then broaden your friends' network . But there are times as much experience as I have , I know I don't know everything and every now and then I'm presented with a problem . It's like I have no idea what I'm supposed to do .

Then I kind of and I always start and I've said this to my team it's like , who do I know ? Who do I know I ? must know somebody who knows somebody right Accessing that network of expertise , or people who might be able to help me solve a problem or try to understand an issue . I really believe that my network is one of my superpowers at this point .

It all starts with an introduction and a conversation . I think , though , there is an inflection point , or there's some point where that goes from just a surface level , casual conversation to , hey , you're a trusted advisor of mine now .

So how do you think you kind of transition that from that surface level component to deeper , to something where it actually really becomes meaningful ?

Usually it is an engagement of either a work related commonality , something that's personal , because sometimes it just moves into what's going on with family and kids or college searches or whatever , but usually it's finding some kind of common link that you're talking about and that you have some emotional attachment to .

And then the question is is there a second time or a third time and over time , even if it's only once a year , but you know that you're connecting on . Whatever that common ground is usually is what builds , in my opinion , trust over the years .

So I think we got to circle back on the topic of mentorship , and that's another big piece here , which is how do people establish mentorships ? Maybe we start with having you give us some insight in who are some key mentors for you and how did they help throughout your career development .

He's like , no , I'll write your recommendation wrote me a fabulous recommendation and off I went .

So there was a more formal mentorship program going on when I joined C-Land into this training program mid-level management training program and in that company it seemed like every C-suite executive had to agree to mentor one of the women or people of color into that program . It wasn't very big and I ended up having a very talented C-suite executive operations .

I believe it or not , he was a King's Pointer out of my undergrad alum that I think , played a role in it and for the next 10 years he kept his hands on my professional development and career .

I honestly , paul , I only talked to him maybe once or twice a year , but when it was time to make the move he made sure that I made the right moves in order to advance my career in the company .

Again , step after step , you get to some point of career and it actually reverses . You become the mentor instead of the mentee , and so I have really kind of somewhere along the line .

At a point I'm actually more of a mentor now trying to serve the same role for women and minorities in my organization , the next generation of kids that are family of friends of mine , coaching them along as they start out their careers .

But there is , if you get a really good mentor in the right way , especially in large organizations , it will keep you on track professionally much more effectively than trying to do it on your own . But I will say got to have the good , you've got to have the performance .

I always say it begins and ends with performance , but if you've got the track record of good performance skills that they're looking for and the personality that they're looking for and the company has a formal program , then you're going to get picked up into those mentoring programs .

If it doesn't have one , then it's as lucky as I got at Exxon , having a boss that is an advocate for women and minorities and then takes you under their wing to keep you moving professionally .

So I am really engaging and working with and know women chief supply officers that are women , women of color , people of color coming up through the industry in a lot of different sectors , which , again , when , I started didn't even exist . So for me , after what you said 45 , 50 years I believe we've come a long ways .

Is there room to grow , in my opinion , until you kind of get to 50 , 50 ? Yeah , there's room for growth , but I believe that we're seeing more women especially making their way to the C-suite and leadership positions in the supply chain field .

And supply chain is very broad , like as we know , so it doesn't have to be just distribution and logistics , it's procurement right , it's all the aspects and raw materials all the way down to the last mile . But more and more you're seeing women and people of color in that profession , which for me is really progress that has been made .

Find someone who's kind of in your organization , senior to yourself , that can help guide you and give you insight along the way .

But if you have the ability to go look someplace else , pivot , try something new , because where you are , you know you've either chopped out or you're not happy at . If you can kind of get that strength of change together as a person , go make the change .

There's no guarantee it's going to be any better than where you were , but at the end of the day you at least made the effort to go find something new and then you change again . Right , I loved all the companies I've worked for , but I've never been afraid to leave the company that I've worked for .

To those of us who are leading organizations or executives within companies , you know I could say with confidence that most organizations in our space can't look at their C-suite or their leadership team and feel 100% confident that they're equitable and that , you know , it's a fair representation of male female minorities in general .

So , as an expert on the issue , how would you recommend organizations , or just individuals within organizations , think about their ability to promote more equality or equity ?

Talented people it doesn't matter , you know , the gender or the color , will always seek their level of confidence and professional success . So then the real work becomes how do you retain them ?

You know , in this workforce you've got to keep them moving , you've got to keep them challenged and you've got to keep them moving either lateral or promotion opportunities , and intellectually you've got to keep them challenged .

So that's one pipeline , so that when you get to those manager , mid-level managers you know senior management roles , you still have experience , diverse experience that you can select from right for that next promotion opportunity . The other thing is then it becomes all that's right out there now with diversity . Training is unconscious bias .

There are training and skills about how people , especially women and people of color , get unselected , you know , for other reasons and other code words like fit , because they're being deselected for what I call the soft skills or the personal opinion skills .

So , like even you know , in a number of organizations there's a lot of work being given to a lot of people who do the interviewing of unconscious bias in their interviewing process . And then you know the other path is , you know , do you just bring somebody in at a mid-level or senior management level ?

Right and just the decision that you look around your C-suite , you've decided you know that diversity brings value , even at the executive level . And then you start your search for talented executives and you bring them in at a higher level , you know , to diversify that executive team .

You can , from his board to his senior executive team , senior leadership team , women or make up probably 40% of the team and also the functional leads are led by women , especially with my operations . But in other parts of you know other functional areas we have women leading those departments .

especially with Black Lives Matter , so that has found its way into corporate America and definitely gave a lift to a philosophy of diversity that Armada and our CEO has always had .

Transportation or service levels were not where it needed to be , our spend was over where it needed to be and luckily , you know , I had a boss who said , yeah , go ahead , go do it . So I brought in a lot of the expertise that I had from other companies in freight to turn around Armada's transportation service to our clients .

And then from there , you know , again I had accumulated enough operational experience in warehousing and logistics and freight management that over time was my boss exited the company . I then was . I was then giving the warehousing , inventory management and transportation and field services .

So that was a lot easier because the warehousing wasn't , you know , which is redistribution , was a much better operational shape . But with that , over the nine years , I then , you know , became the lead in running all the operations because of the accumulation of experience that I had all along my career in warehousing , transportation , inventory and field management .

I had seen regional pandemics in previous lives , but not a global one . So I think what I'm most really proud of is being part of Armada and successfully guiding the operations through the ups and downs and disruptions that came from that global supply chain . You know disruption during the pandemic and at the end of it .

You know being able to have it on firm footing . all of our operations trans warehousing all of our operations on firm footing as we came out of the pandemic and I know that anybody that was running any business during COVID was really challenged with really how to survive it and help your business survive it .

And I absolutely feel the same way that it was something I never planned for . I think I had some of the skills you know to pull it off , but I think really pulling the team together , the organization , pulling the team together to successfully manage through a pandemic , I think is really what I'm most proud of at this point in my

career .

You know , we are now developed with , have developed , a control tower that is , we call it pro but gets in front of identifying stockouts for our clients with their product because of the machine learning and that comes with the control tower that we have in place . So not only you know , with all the right data .

You know , within this platform we can figure out where there's going to be a stock out for a core item for our customers , but then we have the capability of actually putting the contingency plan behind it to make sure that that product is in place when our clients needed to be in place , and that's our pro solution .

On the other part of it , that's happening in warehousing is really cool . We just put in there actually scanners , you know , at our warehouse doors that will track every case that comes in , every case that goes out . It is inventory accuracy piece of technology called cargo . We put it in place probably a couple of years ago .

Has really saved us in a lot of areas for inventory accuracy as well as claims . And we just , we are just starting up a new Dallas warehouse . Actually , just a couple of weeks ago put cargo in and again are really , you know , advocates of that .

And then don't get me talking about forklifts , automated forklifts , all the kind of new technology that's out there , automated warehouses .

We're not doing that , but we are looking at all kinds of new ways to automate or give us better visibility , you know , within our warehouse operations , but also signing up for all kind of the new cool platforms that are coming out and that give us , you know , and visibility of all the freight that we move .

Should it be more so on the forefront , Like how do you think people should be thinking about that ?

I'll go back , you know , when digital freight networks , you know platforms , were all the rage . Here comes Uber freight , here comes Convoy . You know I always say keep an open mind . One , you know , you don't know what the value is going to be , so go experiment . So we did .

We said thank you everybody , yep , you know , we're going to take a shot , we're going to dip our toe in . We decided to go with experiment in the digital freight world with JB Hunt 360 . So we said we're not going to do Uber , we're not going to do Convoy . We've got a great relationship , you know , with JB Hunt . They've got a private network .

Let us go play in that . And we experimented around , and with mixed results , but still it was enough of an education for us to say , okay , you know what there's value here , we're going to stick with it , but we're going to kind of stay out of the world of Uber and Convoy , you know , mostly because we were more comfortable with JB Hunt .

So so yeah , with the same thing as the visibility , guys came out with macro point and Project 44 and four kites at some point , you know , the patient team said let's do an assessment . And we had to make a choice . You know we went with four kites .

So so a bit of it is keep it on your radar but then be selective as to which player you want to experiment with and place a bet on .

But it sounds like you leaned into the existing relationship and the existing trust and confidence you had with a partner and said , okay , we are going to try this new technology , we're just going to do it in a very calculated , measured way where we lean into existing relationships to get there .

Does that seem like a fair assessment of how you thought about it ?

But our motto spray is in a space that has a high service level requirement and we just couldn't get that out of the other platforms that we experimented with and we knew that our you're right our relationship with JB Hunt , we could get the attention to get the service levels that we needed to be on their platform .

But throughout the years as I've watched it , I've been interested in seeing the customer feedback and I've been surprised at the willingness to kind of burn some customers in trial periods because they want to iterate , iterate , iterate until they get it right .

I get stuck on the fact that a company is willing to try something that may hurt a customer in the face of trying to move forward innovation and advance that . I just think you've got to figure out a way to innovate and try new things without it impacting customers in a negative way , without seeing dropped service levels .

So that's something that I kind of always was struck by and thought was a mistake on some of the perspectives of the new tech companies joining the space .

But at some point in some spaces it's a standard that is just too high for them , right ? So that's a target . Another sector level of freight right that can tolerate being late . Mostly it was really service levels being late .

I'm assuming a lot of our listeners come from the capacity provider side of the equation , but I think they would love your perspective on how you handle solicitations . I'm sure , being in the Suisse , maybe you don't get as many now , it's more so your team .

But what stands out to you in a sales pitch and what should people be thinking about when they're approaching prospective customers ?

So we're attentive to longstanding relationships with some of the big national , best in class carriers . But our freight is fragmented at some level and so we're always open to smaller carriers as well as talking and partnering up with a handful of brokers for the freight that moves on a daily basis on plan .

And really what resonates with the pitch from some of our , from the prospective carriers , is starting off with how much control and what is the caliber of your fleet ? Do you have control of your drivers as your fleet in great condition ? And then we are always going off . We always say we're looking for the service levels , can you meet our on time requirements ?

And then also , are you available 24 seven ? Because we're in the food business , so with some really great brands but they're moving freight , we have to be freight 24 seven and so , again , sometimes we just have some carriers that they shut down at five o'clock on Friday and we can't get answers until Monday , and that just doesn't work for us .

If you can meet our service standards we always say , if you're cost competitive but mostly it's about service and that you're accessible , you know , have a high level of communication , then you'll you get your foot in the door to be vetted . And then we look and see if we can find a match on the lanes in our freight network that play to a carrier strength .

And what we always say is what are your power lanes ? It's like no , you don't need to match us , we'll match you . So you tell us where your drivers , where your trucks are , whether your power lanes , and then we'll find the best match for your fleet with our business .

Our network is broad and there's room even for other brokers in our network , but by and large we want controlled assets on our clients straight just because you know they are just in time inventory . They only have three days of safety stock , not a week .

So if anything is one or two days late , you know , into the distributor , then we run into a problem and then we're moving rush loads . So we always start with that . Do you have trucks and drivers that you're in control of ?

But then there's still also a part of our network that just moves on a daily basis , you know , as a , as a surprise load , and in that regard you know , then we're looking for brokers that have high service levels . You know and also great relationships with their owner operators .

That they can make a call and make sure that you know a load can meet our service levels .

I have one more question for you before we wrap up here . You obviously have had a very illustrious , successful career in transportation . I'm guessing you're not done yet , but in the span of at least five decades here in the space , what do you want your legacy to be ? What do you want to be remembered for ?

How do you want people to think of Merit the Nizer ?

And then I think the second thing that I hope is that I had an impact on making you a little braver than you would have been otherwise . Once you know who I am and how I really became friends with you , and I hope that people are just a little braver and taking risks or making change that they wouldn't have done otherwise because they have known me .

I think that's probably it .

And probably most important , because you said it twice , transportation is cool , everybody Right .