Lightning like Steve McQueen I'm in the fast lane when the light turns green and I built tough I ain't nothing but grit cause I made rugged blood, sweat and spit yeah, like a horse I fly for a bumpy ride I like to play hard but I work harder and I weather the storm cause I'm built stronger.
What is up, ladies and gentlemen, we are back. We are live. It is the furry coach morning show. The top morning show in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday 08:30 a.m. Pacific, 1030 Central to break down some industry headlines and most importantly, provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real sat afraid, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve. So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Corey Buchan, happy Monday. Dylan Turner, good morning. I appreciate that, Dylan. Thank you so much. Sunny Sharma. Good morning. Let's go. He's out there. Everybody's coming in on YouTube this morning. Tracy St. Clair. Good morning to you guys as well. We're trying to migrate everybody over to YouTube, you guys, because from what I heard, I, the stream quality is exponentially better over on YouTube than it is on other platforms. So go over there, you guys, check it out. You guys can find me the freight coach over there. And you know, as always, guys, if you guys got value in what you hear, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. Flo, good morning to you. She's over on LinkedIn. But I got a very special guest for you guys here today. We're going to talk about cargo security.
We're going to be talking about securing your equipment, your trucks, trailers, what shippers can be doing out there to make sure that their cargo is secure. It, you know, theft is rampant right now, but, like, there's a whole other side to theft. That's not just the cargo that is inside of the trailers. There is the trailers, containers, trucks, all of that stuff that's going on. So I have my man Nick Erdman on the show. He is with transport security to break all of this stuff down. So, Nick, thank you so much for joining me.
Hey, absolutely, Chris. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
No, man, I'm looking forward to this. Right. Because it, you know, there is so much attention that's out there just on, you know, double brokering and fraud and everything. And, yeah, it's a very real thing, but, like, there's a whole other side to this theft equation that isn't really being talked about at all. And, you know, when it comes down to it, people's trucks and trailers and equipment are getting stolen and all of that. But, you know, before we get into any of that stuff, man, like, how'd you get your start in this?
Yeah, well, yeah, I started with transport security about 20 years ago, kind of on a whim. My father in law is part owner of the company and kind of just asked me at one point, hey, do you want to try to get into this? I had no experience in trucking or security. Kind of, kind of learned the business from the ground up. And, you know, we're a small company, but work with a lot of big name trucking companies, and I kind of just. It was trial by fire at the beginning, and I've never looked back. It's a great company and work with some great customers out there and have some lifelong friends in the industry out there.
Yeah, it's, you know, this side of things is, you know, obviously it's everybody out there, whether it's a seal, whether it is a padlock providing that. But, like, man, I follow a lot of drivers on. On social media, and I see what some of these guys do to make sure that their truck is secure so they can even sleep at a truck stop. And, you know, truck stop security, I think, is something that should be, you know, talked about as well, because I, you know, I see some of these drivers. I was. I was literally just watching a video yesterday about it. Driver is wrapping his seatbelts on his passenger side and driver's side of his truck into the door.
And then I actually think he might have had one of your guys's bars in there to keep it, you know, to keep the doors from opening on the inside out. And it's just wild to me what these drivers are going through out there and when you see it and see these videos. So it's like, with some of your guys's stuff, man.
What?
Like, I want to. I want to start with the trucks, for example, and, you know, going out there. I mean, you guys have air brake locks and, you know, your steering locks and everything else. So it's like, how are drivers able to go in? And are you guys working with them on, like, best methods to, you know, or like certain areas or anything like that.
Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, theft, you know, theft is, you know, again, my 20 years, the last several years, theft, both obviously strategic theft, which is kind of that fictitious pickup and those kind of things, as well as straight theft, which is you kind of what you're talking about with regards to just stealing a truck trailer, those kind of things. You know, the drivers are that last line of defense, really. So they have to really kind of take all the precautions they can with securing their truck. Obviously, their truck is their livelihood. So if that gets stolen, you know, they're not working that next day and, you know, so there are a lot of truck drivers out there that are taking, you know, taking every precaution they can. Like you said, the seatbelt trick, I've heard of that several times.
Securing dashboard valve locks, locking the doors, obviously kind of a no brainer, but yeah, that's any kind of layer. We always kind of talk about a layered approach, having that layered approach of securing things that are going to make that bad guy think twice about going to your truck and just make it a lot more difficult to get through there. So having that layered approach is key.
Is it now, do you think, over your career? Is it more, are they just going for that quick jab, right? So, like they're going around, they're just checking doors. They're trying to see which one is open, which one has the keys in, and they're just making a quick grab at it. Or is it, have you noticed that things are getting a little bit more targeted in their approach on who they're going after?
Yeah, it's, it's changed a lot over the years. So it's. There's definitely the opportunistic thief, which kind of, you explained, you know, somebody, they just kind of see something, you know, might just be somebody looking for something that has no idea what's in the truck or in the trailer and kind of doing that. But then they're on the other side. There is a very organized, sophisticated crews that know exactly what they're targeting, know what kind of commodities trucks are hauling. Certain destinations are primed for electronics or high value apparel, those kind of things. So, yeah, it definitely is both sides of it, and we see both sides of it as far as what's going on out there.
You know, I think a really good thing that a lot of people should do. I forget what company released this, and it was a couple of months ago. They put an article out about some of the highest freight theft corridors that are out there. And they break it down like they have so much data now where it's broken down by freeways. And, you know, I would, I wish I could remember the name of that article, but no, I mean, it doesn't, it's like if you have any freight that's traveling on those areas or even if, you know, like, again, it talk about a great opportunity to talk to customers or your current customers about that.
Like, hey, this is going on this because not like, not everybody secures their loads, you know, when it comes to like locks and seals and all of that stuff out there. And then furthermore, I don't think just a standard seal is good enough. Right, like there, I know there's a lot of food loads and stuff out there that, oh, the seal, but it's a piece of tin. Any, anybody can, you know, like anybody could go out and do anything with it. I, you know, you got to go out there. You got to do more to protect this stuff. Are you guys working? Like, how do you guys assess what people could do to improve their security on there?
I mean, is it, are you guys looking at your guys's locks and are like, are they, I don't know, anti bolt cutter or whatever that looks like?
Yeah, I mean, the line of locks we use, so we partnered with Abloy, who's the high end, high security padlock providers. So we use those padlocks and cylinders in all of our products across the line. So that one makes it obviously high security, but two allows companies to key them all different into master systems and be kind of flexible with keying solutions. So on that side of things makes it easier. But yeah, we're constantly evolving on different things and different ways to secure things. In fact, several years ago, just kind of, you mentioned with seals with food loads, we designed a lock that actually protects the seal. So obviously from a standpoint of knowing if you're tagging a load with a seal, those kind of things, you need to have that for indications.
But what's been happening with food loads especially is if they're tampered with, they don't know if something's been put in there, something's been taken out. So there's a lot of guidelines. So we actually designed a lock that actually covers up that seal to prevent that from being tampered with. While it also secures a door. The main objective is to really protect that seal from being tampered with, which can lead to, you know, rejections of loads and those kind of things and obviously preventing tampering with that load.
Yeah. Because I mean, you would think again, I'm not a thief, but I, you know, it's. To me, it's one of those things where I'm assuming a lot of these guys just walk around truck stops and they see and they're looking to pop seals and locks and they're trying to see what's in the back of these trucks. And I mean, I. Cause I've had shipments stolen before, you know, unfortunately. But the reality is when you've been doing this for 14 or 15 years, it's bound to happen eventually. But like, are you guys out there? Do you guys have anything that, like, I'm trying to think of like the latches on the trailer doors to keep them locked in to where it's like they can't go in and break those off or disassemble those on the side of the road or in a truck?
Sure, sure. Yeah. With. Yeah, I'm assuming you're kind of talking about like swing. The swing doors on the trailers doors.
Roll up doors because I mean, obviously we'll start with the swing doors on it. But like, again, I've heard a lot of stories about how essentially some of, you know, when it comes down to like double stacking, some of these shipments, they'll just go in, they'll remove the trailer doors from it and then they'll take the product off, they'll double stack it on, you know, with two light loads or whatever. And then they put the trailer doors back on there and everything. So then the seals technically not tampered with and stuff like that. Like it goes. It gets pretty in depth out there on the market.
Yeah, there, I mean there's a lot of companies that are taking, taking. I mean, that's. That is one that does happen. Obviously, taking the doors off is a process. Right. But we have heard of that happening and those kind of things. The biggest thing too is just preventing keeping the doors married together. Speaking of the roll door, or, I mean. Sorry. The swing doors is we have a product that, a hasp that goes installed on the trailer door, you know, marrying the two doors together and then secured in the middle with a padlock that allows it, you know, not to be, you know, locking both doors so you can't pry one door open or take one door off and you know, pilferage, you know, part of the load or all the load off there.
So really marrying those two swing doors together is key on. I'm really kind of maximizing that security rather than just having a, just a padlock one. One side of the door, which is typically that. Right side door. Right.
So what could a driver do that, you know? Cause a lot of this is, you know, it's a lot of heat of the moment stuff. Wherever, you know, you're. You're delivering to a specific area, you're new. You don't know that it might be a rough area or something like that. How do you guys work with your guys as customers and users of your guys's product on, you know, like, what are some best tips that some of these guys could do if they're exiting the truck? Right? Cause, I mean, I've ridden around. My dad was an over the road driver. I rode with him for a lot in my youth. And he's not always shutting. He wouldn't, you know, granted, this was back in the 80, you know, the nineties and everything. He's not shutting his truck off.
Every time he gets out of his truck, he leaves it running and certain things like that. So, like, are you guys working with your people on that?
Sure. Yeah. I mean, that's. I mean, that's key because, I mean, obviously, when you. When you're parking your truck at a truck stop, you know, truck state stops are, you know, supposed to be an area where drivers can obviously get, you know, food, you know, recovery, you know, rest and all that kind of stuff. But obviously, they want to have, you know, have their truck and trailer in a safe, secure spot. So that's the key thing. Finding a spot where they can park up, you know, possibly park up against a structure of something, you know, obviously securing. Securing their truck with an air brake lock. Air cuff lock, something that's going to secure it. Even if they are keeping that truck on for, you know, for the reefer, for the. For obviously the.
For the heating and cooling of the truck, but making sure that they're taking those precautions if they're. If they're noticing anything weird, if they, you know, someone kind of, you know, around their truck kind of poking around a little bit that maybe shouldn't be around there or, you know, something that seems a little off, you know, get it. Get ahold of your dispatcher, get ahold of somebody from your company to, you know, kind of say, hey, you know, this area just doesn't, you know, seem, you know, seem safe or, you know, those kind of things, because obviously, the safety of the drivers is utmost importance of that.
But you want to make sure that you're in an area that you feel comfortable and secure in, but taking a couple of those steps where you can really make sure that you're doing all the precautionary things you need to.
Yeah. Are you seeing anything like a, like. Because, you know, I think of like the kingpin and the landing gear or the dolly and having a secure method in that. Right. Because it's like, again, I think that there's so many different things you got to keep in mind. And it's like, the more and more I'm thinking about this, I'm think I'm noticed, like, thinking about more and more vulnerabilities inside of there. Right. Because it's like, hey, they might not want, but I would assume that they would steal the truck and the trailer in the event. But, like, again, if there's. If these trailers are parked right, like they're in a drop yard or they're, you know, the driver leaves it at a truck stop, you know, they're, they got to go out.
They got to go to the, you know, Walmart or a store or something while they're on the road to restock up. You know, I'm thinking, all right, landing gear and kingpin. Do you guys have, like, what about stuff like that to make sure that's secure so they can drop it and then know for a fact, like, hey, nothing is going to happen to this trailer?
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you never really want to leave a drop trailer if possible. Obviously. I mean, that's not always possible, but I mean, it's. Yeah, securing it with a kingpin lock, glad hand lock, landing gear lock, and, you know, obviously making sure it's in a spot because obviously you, like you said, drivers need to move and make, you know, get supplies or, you know, go to the store, those kind of things. But, yeah, securing it, kind of one of those things that kind of, in our industry, you know, cargo at rest is cargo at risk. So obviously, you know, it can't be moving 24/7 all the time. But that is really kind of when, you know, when something's dropped, a truck is stationary parked. That's typically where you're seeing most of these steps. They're not happening when they're on the road.
Think of fast and furious and those kind of things. We haven't seen those, at least in the US, as a mode of operandus to theft. It's normally when it's parked, the driver's typically away from the truck. That really is when the stuff kind of goes haywire.
No, for sure. And I mean, obviously all of these products and products out there exist because this has happened in the past, right? And, and I think, like, again, it's, everybody wants to sit and think in perfect world scenarios, right? Like, oh, hey, nobody would ever leave that out there, but I would probably argue that this happens way more than not. Or they, you know, they forget to do something that, you know, they think, oh, it's only going to be a couple of minutes. What's the worst thing that could happen? Human beings are human beings at the end of the day, and you're not always thinking about this. But again, I also think, like, you know, securing your equipment as a business owner, like, I've talked about this.
I have people come on my show on the insurance side and, you know, they talk about inward and outward facing cameras and all of that stuff, what that can do for your insurance policy. And I also look like, man, if I own trucks, I would have cameras literally anywhere that, like, on those points of vulnerability to where it would tell a picture, right? Like, in the event that something did happen to my equipment, they would know exactly what happened, who did it, and what. Because, I mean, I think like that, yeah, man, I just, I go probably way overboard in the way that I think about some of this stuff. But again, we're not talking about small sums of money, just in freight and then the, you know, the equipment alone. I mean, some guys have hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Most people have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested into their truck and their trailer. And I look at some of these additional securements that you could put on there. It pales in comparison to what it would cost you insurance to replace some of this stuff, you know, and again, it's always a perfect world situation. It's always easier to sit here, have a conversation like this and be like, oh, that will never happen until it does. Right? And then what? Then you're going to look back and you're going to think, damn, maybe that additional security measure was worth it, you know? And I. Cause, like, again, back to the insurance people that I have come on the show where it's like, what? What?
Yeah, it might be a couple hundred extra bucks a year or whatever that looks like in coverage, but, like, what does that save you on the back end in the event that this stuff happens? Because unfortunately, you guys, we live in a day and time where desperate times call for desperate measures. And I think that I'm of the mindset. And again, I want to be abundantly clear, this is Chris Jolly's opinion only here. The overwhelming majority of theft that is out there is inside jobs. I don't think it's as at random as a lot of people want to market out there. I truly think that it is. The overwhelming majority of it is inside jobs and it's organized crime. And yeah, we won't go into that on that. But you know, you guys also have a lot of great content on your guys's website.
If you guys go to transportsecurity.com, there's some articles out there and there's some like step by step guides on kind of what you can do out there. And you know, you're about key things that shipper should ask about security and you know, like, again, obviously gps tracking, getting your driver on tracking and everything. But I also think like trailer tracking as well because like a lot of the tracking software that is out there, e logs for example, or tracking only has the truck. But like where's the trailer at? Where, where's the cargo at in the event because like at the end of the day, yeah, the driver's life is worth something. But that's like what the shippers mainly concerned about is where is our freight at? Where is it being stored?
And you know, like, again, like what are you doing to prevent unauthorized access to that stuff?
Yeah, you know, we've always talked about, it's that layered approach, right? So it's, it's incorporating the technology you just talked about with the cameras and the GPS on the truck, on the trailer, even embedded in the cargo. You know, some shippers are doing that where they're embedding GPS devices in cargo and then having locking devices that are specific for the trucking industry, making sure that they can last in the rugged environment of the trucking industry. And it's really that prevention, the prevention, taking those steps, all those steps of prevention, like you said with the insurance. Insurance, everybody has insurance hoping they don't have to use it. But you have that prevention in place because being proactive with it rather than reactive in security, knowing where your stuff has gone after it's stolen, you're too late.
It makes sense to have those measures in place prior to anything happening. And having that, what we call a security culture, you know, having, you know, just like you have a safety culture, you have to have a security culture as well.
No, I completely agree with that man. And I think like, you have to have a plan. You have to be, you have to be looking at this stuff. Because I truly think, like, in today's day and age, man, everything is at risk for theft, right? Because it used to just kind of be electronics and, you know, and then a lot of it is like what could be easily sold on the streets and stuff like that. But now it's like, I've been paying attention to a lot of this data that's coming out. It's pretty much everything now. It is seemingly everything that is going on, and it is becoming more and more organized in how they are doing this stuff.
And, you know, again, I think, like, you have to look at it is if, like, if you're picking up at certain areas or, you know, certain and there isn't a security protocol that is in place, I would be weary of that. And then I would recommend that to my customers in the event where it's like, hey, you know, I noticed that there is no special requirements for this cargo. Should I think we should be doing x, y and z here to protect your guys as freight?
Or, you know, again, like, I know a lot of people require, you know, a paddle lock or, or a seal at some point, but I don't think that's going to be enough here coming up, and I think it's going to fall on the brokers and the carriers alike to come up with security plans in place to present them to a lot of these customers.
Absolutely. I think more and more freight brokers are becoming really cognizant of the carrier pool they're dealing with because they have to non stop. They have to be vetting those carriers, looking at the carriers. And one of those things obviously needs to be security. You know, what measures are those carriers taking for their security? You know, is it just a plastic seal or is it just a padlock that, you know, that could be easily cut and those kind of things, you know, making sure that they understand the vulnerabilities of whatever cargo they're taking, making sure that they understand the vulnerabilities because, yeah, there's a couple, there's a couple states that are, you know, kind of high on the theft radar as far as, you know, just California, Illinois is a large one as well as Texas that really has higher theft incidences.
But it doesn't mean that some of those other states aren't seeing the same kind of theft out there that those are.
So how are you guys as a company. And again, you don't have to. If you guys are doing anything, you don't have to answer anything like this. But, like, with technology being an ever growing part of our lives, how are you guys? Cause I think, like, when it comes down to it, for me personally, I think, like, I wouldn't want my security to be completely digitized, you know, in my trucks and. And everything. Cause, like, man, I have, like, apps and stuff on my phone that control, you know, stuff at my house and everything. But, like, I still have a locking key because, like, in the event that some of that shit fails or the Internet goes out, I need to be able to get inside of my house still.
So are you guys of that mindset where it's just like, hey, we want that traditional lock and key style thing to get in and out of some of our devices, or are you guys seeing more of a push to be digitized with this?
Yeah, we see. I mean, we see definitely. I mean, all of our customers obviously are in physical keys with those physical devices. But, yeah, technology is. Is coming into. Into the security market. Obviously it is in the security market. But, you know, we're seeing really, our customers are liking that physical. Like you said, you know, if everything goes down, I can still get into my physical lock with my physical key. But, yeah, there definitely is a. Is a place for that in different segments of industry. And I probably do see in the next 510 years more and more of that technology coming into physical security. But I think, you know, there might be a component of having both. And, you know, we've taken a look at some different options and currently testing some that, you know, have.
Have no key or have a bluetooth type key, those kind of things where it's. It is still a physical product, but incorporating some of that technology. So more to come on that. But I think, yeah, there's some. There's some things out there, especially for the trucking market. It's a little. Little more challenging, right. You don't want to be stuck at a load and not be able to open it. So.
So from your perspective, man, as we're kind of wrapping things up here today, what's something that you wish people out there in the driver community or just in the community in general should like, what's step one? What's something that they could do to, like, start improving their safety measures inside of their business when it comes down to this stuff?
Sure. I think it's just understanding, you know, getting, you know, getting involved in some of the knowing where theft is happening, right? So, I mean, drivers are that last line of defense, right? They're out there. They're in some areas maybe, that, you know, you and I might not go to, but they have to go to for, you know, for shipments, for rest areas and those kind of things. Just knowing. Knowing the surroundings, knowing what they're hauling, knowing the commodity that the value and those kind of things that, hey, if you're hauling this high value commodity, you might be targeted.
And knowing your safety, contacting your dispatcher if you feel like you're getting followed or in a not a good area, obviously, that's kind of step one, but, yeah, having, like I said, a security culture, having a security frame of mind when you're out on the road. So making sure that you're locking your cab, locking your dashboard, your valves, your back door, if you have to drop your trailer, make sure it's not just, you know, sitting wide open. Make sure that there's those. Those layers of security just so you can make sure that you're coming back to a trailer when you come back. Come back to it.
Yeah, I look, a lot of it like this, man, is, you know, there's drop yards that are out there. A lot of large fleets do that. There's, you know, I mean, even small mid sized fleets, they have drop yards in, you know, cities where they're at frequently. And, you know, again, I would want my equipment to be there no matter what. I wouldn't want to, like, leave any doubt out there that, like, I did, I should have done something more. Right. And, you know, because, again, you. I've been to some of these drop yards here in the. In the Phoenix metro, and there's, like, ten different trucking companies who utilize some of these yards, right. It's not just one person that's in there. And I think, like, again, that's another security thing you need to think about. What is that vulnerability? Right?
Like, how does that look if you. Because you're not the only one who has access to that yard at that point, then if anybody could go out there and see. And, you know, and again, like, I think of it just, like, even if your trailer is empty, for example, if your trailer is empty, it's still at risk to get stolen if it's just sitting there unattended. Right? And I think, like, securing your equipment and everything is just something that, you know, I truly think everybody should be looking into. And I. Into me, like, I just. I'm a freight junkie at heart, man. I love talking about all things trucking at the end of the day.
And I appreciate you jumping on here today to talk about this, because, like, this is a whole other side of the cargo theft epidemic that we're dealing with right now is, as you know, what about everybody's equipment? How do they protect their trucks, their trailers, their box trucks, whatever that looks like? How do they protect that investment to at least minimize? Because I don't think anybody's ever going to be able to 100%, 100% prevent anything from happening. But how do we minimize this? How do you have that peace of mind that when you're leaving your truck somewhere at night or for a weekend or whatever, that it's. It's going to be there when you come back on Monday? But, man, how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you guys got going on?
Or maybe they have some questions about, hey, Nick, where do I start?
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm on.
I'm on LinkedIn. And, you know, all the. All the socials for that. LinkedIn is the best way to find me. Just Nick Erdman or transportsecurity.com, like you said, our website. But, yeah, feel free to reach out. Be happy to have a conversation with individual owner operators. Trucking companies. Yeah, setting up a program. We're seeing a lot more trucking companies that maybe didn't have a security program in place. Really kind of ramping up. Ramping up and starting to do that. And it just. It's a small investment to start off with. So, yeah, feel free to contact me. Be happy to help out.
Perfect. Nick, I appreciate you joining me today, man. And you guys, we got guests coming on this week as well. But hit Nick up if you have questions out there. Hit him up, you guys. And if for some reason you guys can't find him, I will gladly put you guys in contact with. With him. But as always, you guys, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. Dear network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys. And we'll be talking to you soon.
See you there.