979. Dustin Blevins

All right, we are going to start in three, two, and one. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of coffee with the freight coach. My name is Chris Jolly. I am your host and I am the freight coach. Before we jump into the episode, as always, thank you guys so much for coming out and listening to this podcast. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen, and I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak to transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, man.

Now, dude, it was a pleasure. Like, I forget, I think you were in Arizona a while back, and on your posting a photo out there, I'm like, man, I got to get you on the show and do that. So, man, what? Like, I always start out a lot of these shows like this, man, how did you get your start in freight, man? What brought you into trucking?

Well, Chattanooga is well known for its logistics industry and professionals. When I left selling beer, I was a keg roller for a while. I went to work in the restaurant industry. And in Chattanooga, we had a joke that logistics is where restaurant people go to die. And because we had a big coyote branch here at the time, not to mention us express and all those folks, when things didn't work out at the restaurant, they made a call to one of their friends in logistics, and I had the job before I ever walked in the door, just based on my personality and their conversation, was very fortunate that I just hit the ground running, dude.

I like that, man. And then, so, like, have you been out there, like, carving out a niche or anything like that, or were you. Did you. You just kind of move everything?

I'm kind of afraid of all kinds type person. I early niche was just round the clock service. I worked heavily in the automotive field. Still do. I'm one of those types that had to sign a few contracts that if my trucks are late and lines go down, I'm on the line for some money. And that's. I started doing that very early on, and I've loved it ever since. But if it fits, you know, my market, if it fits my drivers, I'm all for it.

Yeah. So, man, I like, I love talking to founders and everything, and, like, what brought you, like, what made you start vi, man, like, what you told me kind of before we started recording, but I really want to talk about this, man, because I think this is a very unique opportunity that you got there. So, like, what brought you to kind of that point and kind of walk me through that.

Absolutely. So it all started with my early introduction into logistics. I was there a few months, was lucky enough to get a customer off the 70 outbound calls a day, and had enough volume to where they're, you know, they went ahead and said, hey, we're going to promote you to manager. You're going to go hire your first employee, and you're going to build your own pod. I hired a good friend of mine, Danny. Didn't know him well at the time. He had came from insurance. In the world of car sales, and traditionally, they all pretty, it all translates pretty well to logistics. Well, he had a long time friend, a Tennessee based importer, looking to work with him directly at the company were at. That wasn't possible. So we moved together. Things didn't quite work out for us there. Moved again.

Yeah.

He reached out to our friend Monique Taylor. She is our president of international. Monique came in, showed them some tools of the trade, how she tracks ocean shipments, how she verifies everything, and just found out that all of their containers were tranship and were sitting in places that they shouldn't be sitting. And the agents were telling them, oh, hey, no, these are definitely here. That's wrong. And just kind of cemented the fact that the industry has a lot of work to do. Not everyone, but a lot of. A lot of bad actors out there, so to speak.

No, man.

And they basically cut ties with everyone. They started doing it in house, and surely enough, about three months in, they saved about $600,000. And that is when Danny approached me for the president of domestic job. My role at Veritas International, or Vi, has been to help develop the footprint for this import. Currently, I manage four shipping lanes, that is Savannah, Chattanooga, Phoenix, and La. And I just help beat down the carriers, get those deliveries out to installations, and do what I can to help grow the business.

So.

And we're fixing to celebrate two years.

No, man, I want to go back to the whole uncovering that amount of savings in that short of time. And was there. Was there a certain thing where you guys saw, like, that doesn't look right, and then you guys started peeling back the layers, and you're like, you guys are getting bilked right now for an insane amount of money? Is that kind of how it started?

Absolutely. Once mo got involved. So it started sort of on the drainage side, because Danny retroactively worked that way from the domestic side, our containers weren't being delivered in the amount of time that they were supposed to be. They were being picked up from the port, taken to the drop yard, left there until demurrage started accruing, and then taken to the final destination. And it just. It caused a big stink once. Once they found out about it, they started raising a whole bunch more questions. And that's when, again, they got involved in the international side, found out that they were paying for direct shipments, I believe. And all of the shipments were being, you know, transshipped.

Yeah, I'm looking at it like this, man, because, like, we're. I'm seeing a lot. I can't say a lot of this, right, because it's not everybody that I talked to and all of our shippers and stuff like that, but I'm noticing a lot of that. And I, and I, because I truly think, Dustin, like, what you're describing right there is the only real way to, like, truly prove your worth as a freight broker. Because whether it's you cold calling or me cold calling a shipper, what's the real discernible differences between the two of us at the end of the day, right from the initial, this offering, slim to none, right? Like I talk, I say it all the time, man. When Ch. Robinson, the largest freight broker out there are. People are calling people.

Yep, that's. I mean, it's very similar to the conversation I had just a couple hours ago. I. We're trying to help a newer customer get along here in Jacksonville, and they were looking at Moffat trailers, so they asked, can you do Moffat trailers? And I'm like, you know, it is possible for us to do it, and I don't want to talk myself out of any work, but if we find one local, it might just better for you to reach out and contract with them directly.

Yeah.

Like, what you're looking for. We would love to help, but we're. We're too big for what you're looking for, you know?

Yeah, no, dude, I'm right there with you. I think that there's. That's where. Same thing, man. If I can't do something, I'm going to tell my customer right away or I'm going to take the approach of, you know, hey, listen, that's not exactly in our wheelhouse, but if you give me a little bit of time, I will figure it out and I will come to you when I feel comfortable doing it. Because, like, man, we have, we have a smaller team at the end of the day. And we got in and a customer of ours was like, hey, we want you to bid. We got, like a hundred containers coming in through the port of Savannah. And I'm like, all right, so we bid it out.

Yep. No, I, I couldn't agree more. When I started in the industry, I was just told, hey, if you. If someone answers the phone and they ask, you can do it, you say yes. And then I found very quickly that was not true.

Yeah.

As. As a broker, as a non very heavy, niche laden broker, there's only really a few cool things you could do. And people were asking for dry bulk pneumatics. They wanted us to move hazardous waste. And my superiors were like, yeah, we can do that. Go figure it out. Go figure it out. And at the end of the day, we couldn't do it. And I wasted my time, wasted customers. Time. And I just knew very early on there's a way better way to go about this industry. And if you're putting the time in and you're researching and you're calling and get to those points and you tell someone, hey, I don't think this would be a good fit for me. It's going to work wonders for you.

Yeah, no, I, man, I, you know, because like, as a startup we're, you know, because I'm an agent with SPI logistics and, you know, again, I'm a massive fan of the agent model because of, you know, what it offers up and it allows us to operate as we're ahead. A couple hundred million dollar organization. You know, we have all the insurance you could need, we have all the back office support, we have all the technology. But, you know, as I'm going on out there, so it's like, but what I was getting at is like, I'm in no position to turn away revenue right now. From a business development standpoint, it's the hardest market I've ever operated in. From a business development perspective, that's the longest sales cycles I've been a part of.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. That's. We actually apply that both ways to our employees and our customers.

Customers, yeah. Okay. And in what ways? Like, what are you out there doing that?

So one of our, so our main customer, what helped us get started, their motto was, they always want to leave. Leave someone better than when you found them.

Yeah.

And, you know, we've lost a few people over the past two years, and arguably it was for better opportunities. And that's the exact conversation we had. It's, you know, same with the customer. Hey, if this isn't going to be good for us, we wouldn't be a good fit for you to that employee. We love you here. This would be a better opportunity for you. You know, we want you to take it because we want to see you grow. We want to see you happy.

Yeah.

No harm, no foul, non solicits, non competes. You know, go do your thing. Tell your customers we said, hey, yeah.

No, man. I think that's the best way to kind of operate like that. Right. And, you know, and especially now with all this stuff with, you know, you brought up non competes there. I like, I'll never have a non compete, you know, in my business at all. Except for, I would say, like, if you have privy information to, like, proprietary information, if we're doing a, you know, an m amp, a strategy or something like that, like, I feel like there's a certain level to it, but I think for the most part, a lot of the sales reps out there, a lot of the people, man, it's just like, dude, if you think you can go get it better somewhere else, go for it, man. I hope.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Yep. My Internet might cut out. The Airbnb Internet is a little slow.

No, no, it's all good, man. Dude, we can just riff like this, man. Sometimes it helps if you shut your. And this is just going to be live on the show. Okay. This is the. If you want to shut your camera off, sometimes that helps with your. With your Internet speeds and everything, depending on where you're at out there. But no, man, I think, like, yeah, I think that business is going to be one of those things that, you know, like, as the non compete thing starts to come out, you know? And, you know, the non solicit thing is it's tough.

And.

And I can't, I publicly say one way or another how I will be in a couple of years with it. But it's, you know, I think that from the frontline workers perspective, because I think those are the ones who are. Who suffer the most. Right, right. Eliminating that from the frontline sales reps and everything, it's like, man, if you want to go. Like, go. Do you go find your happiness, go find your passion? Because, like I had said, man, if I lose customers because of it, my organization's failing, and I need to look at that. Not the rep.

Yeah, no, I.

Will.

Agree that unless you've got proprietary information, I think there are always the need for NDAs. Don't go somewhere, talk about our business. If they're your customers and you came over with your customers or you spent the time doing it, we don't have a non solicit. All's fair. Big believer in NDAs. Don't, you know, don't talk about business behind closed doors. Don't, don't spill any trade secrets. But what I found out working at three companies, based in Chattanooga, is there were. There was no real trade secret. But I got a letter in the mail every single time.

Geez.

Yep.

Dude, that's wild, man. It's, Do you know, I. I think, like, that's the. The work around, because there's a lot of companies that are out there trying to champion non competes and everything in every industry, but then it's like, are you really championing that? Because it's like, what is your non solicits look like? What are these other things look like? Because it's like, I just don't think, especially in freight, man. Like, like I said, nobody's doing anything differently, you know, like, your. Your ability to communicate at a higher level. Yeah. That's different than your competition, but that's not proprietary. Right? Like, I just look at it as, you know, there people are scared. They. They know they're not good. And that's why they have so much red tape in there, you know?

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I can't, I know we got off on that tangent pretty quickly. Can't, can't say too much on it, something.

But now it's all good. We won't talk about this anymore, man. Let's get back to business development strategies because I think, you know, right now, in any freight market, but especially right now, man, you have to really bring it to be noticed. Like, you have to truly say something different or you have to follow up in a really accommodating way. I'll call it not in annoying way. You have to follow up at a pace to wherever you're not going to work yourself out of opportunities. So it's like, how are you out there developing business right now?

I am almost solely working off of referrals.

Damn, dude.

As I mentioned, I'm managing those four ship points. Speak to my customers daily, ask them about what's going on in the areas. Do they know anyone looking for something and then just go off that. Talk to folks leaving the industry. You know, there's, they say every day there's record numbers of companies closing. I've been fortunate enough to be on LinkedIn since I've been in this industry. Made a lot of great connections. And I just, you know, ask, hey, what happened? What's going on? Are you okay? Know anybody I should reach out to try to help out right now?

Dude, I like that a lot, man. I think that's a great strategy. I'm a, you know, from my pay, from my perspective, I think that you need to get really crafty right now in your approach. I cuz, like, dude, I don't know about you and your business, Dustin, but like, I get emails from brokers thinking that I'm a shipper and, you know, they're asking me to be set up. They want to haul my freight, everything else, or they're asking to like, knowingly double broker my freight out there. But it's like I'm seeing that level and I'm like, man, you didn't even do 3 seconds of research to see this is a freight brokerage, not a shipper. And I'm like, no wonder shippers hate us. You know, like, they get that shit all day long.

I so I agree. If anyone actually does the research, they would see that we are a freight broker and an NBOCC. We still get calls, you know, shout out TQL. But our corporate address is actually one of our customers warehouses. That's where we started. In January of last year. We were working out of a shipping warehouse. And so if anyone ever pulls up that address, it's our customers warehouse. So they might actually think that we are a shipper just based on that.

Dude, thats wild, man.

Yeah.

So have you noticed inside of that? So viewing, being an NVOC and everything like that, where is there a lot more opportunities out there than most people think with that.

I would say, thanks to Covid. No, we are very fortunate to have customers we have in the ocean atmosphere, and we're able to uncover some similar things, help save money, pretty much mirroring what we did to start Vi. But people are leery. People are very leery. And it's honestly weird. We very much approached a lot of things with open honesty and a lot of transparency. Some of our customers know how much we pay vendors, how much money we make per load, etcetera. And to go into a sales call, you know, with someone you haven't worked with before, and you're providing that because you feel like it's a value add. Then you see the look on their face and, you know, they realize how much they've been getting. Just sham. Yeah, it's been mixed reviews. Honestly. Some people have not cared for that.

So are you. What's one of those ways, man? Because it's like, I think that, you know, and especially with the FMC ruling that's going on out there about detention and demoralidge and everything like that, how are you guys working with your customers right there to kind of bring awareness to a lot of that? Because I feel like that's going to uncover a lot of B's. I think at the end of the day, I think it's a really, I'm not the biggest fan of the government getting involved in everything, but, like, in this instance, I think this is going to uncover a lot of wrongful billing and everything else that's been going on out there.

Yeah, I mean, I think, and I think it's across the board there are plenty of companies out there that will artificially create or find a way to fabricate extra charges. It's just like the drayage debacle that Danny had uncovered is, you know, they were taking it to a drop yard, saying there wasn't space, saying there wasn't, you know, chassis ready. But then when it started accruing demerit, they went and got it delivered and then collected the demerge.

Yeah.

And I mean, I think across the board, I'm with you. I don't think the government should get involved, really, in anything. It's got enough of its own problems. But back. Yeah, I mean, I agree. Once, once they get in there and make some clear rulings and things come to light, there may be even more shakeups. But just like this year, ocean ship lines rates are back high again. No one really knows what's going on. So here we are in the same sort of world, dude, I think.

That, again, at the end of the day, I think that if you. Because what I try and do, no matter what, Dustin, is, I just try and operate the exact same way. No matter how the market is performing, up market, down markethouse. And I even go, as you know, hypothetically, if I'm making $5, losing 5000 or making 5000, my customer receives the exact same level of service and communication on every single move out there. And I think that from my perspective, it's like, I think more people need to stop paying attention to what other companies are doing and make sure that their shits in order as well.

Yeah.

And if you can do that, I think, like, again, always the cream will rise to the top. No matter what, under what circumstances are out there, the real players in the industry are going to figure it out and they're going to perform at a high level and they're going to be the reason why when I prospect somebody, they're going to be like, we're good right now. You know, like, those are the relationships that I'm trying to them working to establish out there.

Yeah, no, I agree. I've been saying a lot recently. If you're not growing, you're dying, if you're not finding ways to stay alive in the industry for your customers, something new, shinier, prettier, may just come along and take you out.

Yeah.

You constantly have to evolve. And that's one of the things I like about this industry.

I look at it like this, where it's like, I think more people lose business than have somebody take it from them. Right. I don't think. Because I think people, naturally, people are resistant to change at the end of the day.

Absolutely.

And that new shiny object that you're talking about, sometimes it shows itself in the face of, hey, this person actually communicates at the levels of the way that you said you were going to. And it is, it's just those little things like that where people start to notice like, hey, you guys are just a little bit better than everybody else. You guys are doing things a little bit differently than everybody else.

Yep. No, it's some of the feedback we got yesterday from one of our customers. We are about 8% over their market rates, but they had stellar notes for us on customer service. And it's because of those relationships we have and how we go about conducting our business and over communicating. You know, we reach out to our carriers. Obviously, everyone has to post one occasionally. If we can't get it done with our carriers, you know, we'll call backups, backups, you know, four, five, six down the list. If we get to that point, we'll post that out. We find a good option. We let our customer know, and they love us for it.

I think that, you know, we need to, again, I want to get your, how do you build the relationship, man? Because I think it's like, you know, that term is thrown out there so much. And how do you actually build a relationship, though? What, what's one thing that you like to see from the very beginning?

I, for me, when I came in the industry, you know, I, obviously, I didn't have driver relationships, and I was selling that, oh, hey, we have all this capacity. I loved when drivers were updating me before I was asking questions.

Yeah.

And I would start doing that for my customers, and then they loved it. And so anytime I'm working with a carrier, if they're over communicating, doing everything I am, I already know I'm calling them back. I'm getting them first. And that's kind of what we've done to help develop the network that we have now is a lot of the carriers that we use daily.

Yeah.

And we managed to do that in the span of two years.

So what are some. From my perspective, I think, like, truly understanding a customer's operation, I think is almost overlooked. And I think, like, how often do you sit down? It sounds like you guys are probably already doing this with it, but, like, how often do you guys sit down with your customers and talk to them about their actual process and lead times and everything else?

A few of them monthly. The one that helped us get everything started? Almost daily. There are daily discussions on how we can better streamline because that's how it started. As we are rounding our two years, we are striving to get out there and see our customers further away and do the same thing. So hope to do it more often, but right now, you know, quarterly, I'd say quarterly, yeah.

Okay. How. How much do you believe in, like, site visits and stuff like that, man? Going on site to your customers and. And really doing that as, like, a business development strategy or, like, a relationship building strategy?

Oh, very much so. One, I think it just helps cut through, what is. What the industry is right now. They get 100 phone calls a day. You know, how many times does a guy named hot tub show up at your front door? Like, one time. You can get a thousand phone calls a week, but one guy named hot Tub is showing up at your door. And I think that is, at this point, immeasurable to the success and failure of brokerages and salespeople in general.

Dude, I would just literally just introduce myself as hot tub when I call people. I got to ask, dust wherever. Where does the nickname hot tub come from? It is probably the best nickname I've ever seen.

Well, I tell you, like I tell most folks, because I always look for more opportunities, is I'll never tell you on the first go. I'll tell you on the second meeting.

Okay. Okay.

Sorry. So the next time we sit down and chat, I'll definitely tell you the story. And it's really helped me cut through, the chatter in the industry, you know, calling, introducing myself as hot tub, trying to find ways to get myself in front of people. I, you know, I made a post about it the other day. It's. It's hard to convey your personality over the phone sometimes.

Yeah.

But leaving voicemails, you know, introducing yourself as hot tub really catches people off guard. I have gotten away from it some, you know, I very much uses it, used it as a tool for personal gain. Now that I am in the position I am in, I'm always looking for ways that my team can win over how much I can win. Yeah, you know, I felt, you know, it's a bit of good personal development.

Dude. I think that, you know, from my perspective, I think that as automation and everything is continued to push out there, I really think that at least in freight is, man, separating yourself and doing what others aren't willing to do, I think is truly overlooked. I think like, cause I look at like, you know, investments, right? If I'm gonna go see a customer, I like going to my customers facilities, I like going out there, like prospecting, I like doing site visits, I like standing out. Because you're right, man. Like, I'm like, how do I properly convey my passion for this industry via email or via phone call? And I don't think it gets across, man. I think me showing up and then sitting in a room with them, that's what really helps me separate myself more than anything.

No, I mean, I couldn't agree more. It's a lot of the conversations we are having right now as we are growing, as we are shaping ourselves for the future, that exact sentiment is, if it makes sense for us, if it makes sense for our footprint, if it makes sense for our carriers, we feel like we could be a good value additive. We've talked to gatekeepers, we've asked them questions. We've talked to ops people, we've asked them questions. We feel like it's worth it. We are getting on the phone with them. We're trying to schedule that meeting. We're flying out the medium as soon as possible.

What, what happened that, you know, that? Because that's not like, that's just not a common strategy out there, man. What was it that you know, from your perspective on why you do it that way.

Again, I'm very thankful for the customers I have. It's really been talking to them, trying to continuously evolve and just seeing what the industry is right now. Everyone's under the thumb, everyone's losing revenue. They want to make sure they're getting as much exposure, much customers they have. People are having to call 100 times a day. And I think that's really it. That's, that's what separates me is I got up at 02:00 a.m. Drove down to Jacksonville, have met four people, you know, four different, one customer, three different prospects, and I'm coming home tomorrow. Like that. People aren't doing that.

Yeah, no, dude, I'm right there with you. Right. I. A lot of our thing is our business development is, hey, can I just stop by and see you? I like to own your, my local market.

Yeah.

I'm on a mission to introduce myself to literally everybody inside of the Phoenix market where I live. Right. Because I feel like that's just such a, an overlooked opportunity out there. And again, I get it. Some people are like, no, I'd rather sit behind the desk all day. But it's like, man, I want people to know that I'm a real human. You know, like, there's enough fake profile pictures and other bullshit that's going on out there. How do I show that I am an actual human being? And I think, like, that's just a strategy that we're going to run with here for the very, very long term. Because I think as people look to automate and remove the personal human element more, I'm going to double down on it, man. I'm going to triple down on it.

Yep. No, I mean, I agree. I, it's kind of funny. I learned a lot in my first few months of being in the brokerage. You know, there they are. Just like, find ways to do this mark stuff down. I still do it. I'll drive down the interstate, I'll see something on a flatbed. And I'm grabbing my phone, I'm typing a name into my notes app, and then I'm looking them up when I get to the hotel or something.

Yeah.

When I get home, I'm just like, okay, cool. It's obviously on a flatbed. It wasn't tart. I got the name. It was created parts. You know, let me call them and see what's going on?

Yeah. Hell yeah.

I think. I think the more you're right, the more automation and AI and everything like that evolves and takes that human element out of it, the more we will do the same and just be as human as possible. Getting in there and kind of spit in the face of automation and AI.

Dude, I'm right there with you, man. That's what I'm looking to do with it. I'm looking to show, like, yeah, because I think that at some point, man, people are going to autumn, like, I just feel like the direction shit's going. Dustin, you're just gonna automate. We're just gonna automate ourselves out of jobs, and then we're gonna be automating ourselves out of existence, you know, and then that just creates a one class system that goes on in the world where it's like, oh, great, so we're. We're in it. So where 1% of the people control everything, and then we're just given crumbs, you know? I think that's where automation and everything goes in the long run. But that's a conversation for another day. Dustin, I don't think that tangent right now, but, man, what's, you know, as.

Oh, that. That's a. That's a tough one for me, because I'm such a double downdeze, you know, in it. In it until I'm absolutely lost type of person. Take a. Take, just a hard look. Take a. Take a day off. Take a hard look at yourself. Ask yourself, are you willing to go as far as you need to make this work? And then, you know, if you are, get out there and do it. If you're not, you know, choose a better life to do something else. There's a lot of. A lot of good industries out there. I know if I wasn't doing logistics, you know, I'd probably still be in the restaurants. Love, love working with food, love seeing people happy, and. Yeah, I mean, just really decide if this is going to be it for you.

Yeah, no, man, you're right, man. Like, I think that, you know, business, entrepreneurship, isn't for everybody. It's been overly glorified out there. It's phenomenal. I love it. But, man, it comes with a lot. And I think that what you said there about, like, man, if you're not happy doing what you're doing, you got to go find your happiness, right? Like, it doesn't matter. And I think that's the greatest. That's probably one of the greatest yet. Most simple things that anybody said on this show, man, is to do. If you're not happy, you got to go find your happiness.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I know a few people, again, we had that joke that in Chattanooga, logistics is where restaurant people go to die. And here I still am dying on this hill. But I know a few people who gotten out there, they've started doing something else because a lot of people in this industry, they're picked up right out of college. They didn't need a degree in logistics. They got a degree in something else.

Yeah.

You know, if you're at that point now and you don't feel like this is the future for you right now, go. Go do what your degree was for. Go do something else. Take a, take a sabbatical, dude.

I'm right there with you, man. Dustin, I appreciate your time. I know you're out on the road and you got stuff going on here tonight, man. But thank you so much for sitting down and talking about your story in the industry, man. And how does anybody reach out to you, though? Are you, if you guys are hiring or if they just want to reach out and connect with you? Network, man. How do they reach out and find out more?

Well, it's pretty easy. Our official phone number right now is just my cell phone, but it's out there on our website. 423-48-0085 LinkedIn is always appreciated. Love always connecting with other industry folks. Love having conversations like this. Can always take time to chat with someone over the phone on a teams call. Have met a lot of really wonderful people and learned a lot from them and through these conversations.

I love it, man. And, Dustin, you got a long drive coming back from Jacksonville, so, Samantha, maybe somebody should pop in tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah. If someone calls, give me a shout. I'll be driving.

Oh, man, I love it. Dustin, thank you so much. And if you guys made it this far in the episode, which I'm sure you did, I know you did. And you're not subscribed. Subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there to your network. Because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys. And we'll be talking to you soon.