Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them make a bigger balls.
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is a Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Thursday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys. I'm going to bring him up here in just a second. But I just want to give you guys a quick reminder, you guys. The Freight Coach newsletter drops every single Wednesday. It dropped yesterday. It's growing and it's growing quick. And just like with everything I do, it's all organic, right? I don't sign anybody up for it if I have your contact information. But if you want to register for it, just go to the freightcoach.com it will auto prompt you to register for it. It's all industry information, you guys. We talk fuel pricing, we talk rates, all of that stuff out there. So check it out.
But with that being said, let's talk tariffs today, you guys. Let's talk about what's going on, what got announced yesterday. It's like seemingly an endless news cycle. And I have my good friend Mark Funk back on the show today. Mark, thank you so much for joining me.
Hey, Chris, thanks for having me. It's always great to be on the show.
No, man, I, I love talking literally anything transportation with you. Like, you are so passionate about this industry and it's easy just to sit down and you know, you're, you know, with what you're doing. You know, from a compliance standpoint, a broker, carrier relationship standpoint, and kind of all of that, you bring a unique perspective to all of this stuff, man. So what's been going on in your world here these last couple of months?
Well, well, you know, tariffs, right. That's obviously what's. That's been going on, but, you know, just a shock, I think. I think a lot of people anticipated a quicker turnaround in the market with, you know, the election results and whether you fall on the left or the right, there was a decision made. Right. You know, businesses don't like to invest if they don't know, you know, where things are going. So once that was decided, I think a lot of people anticipated that were going to get a quicker turnaround. And, you know, that's not, that's obviously, that's not what happened. And, you know, we're working through that.
It's. I, you know, I'm right there with you, Mark. I think it's a very interesting dynamic kind of what's going on right now, because I felt that when everything happened, you know, I thought people were like, at least I got that vibe, too, that it was going to be kind of like an instant turnaround. And it seems like there was a lot of people jumping all over that. But, you know, I think that sometimes people underestimate what it actually takes to correct a freight market. Right. And when there's a lot of stuff out there, like, I mean, even if you just look back and look out as a country, right. Like, there's a lot of that goes on out there. Right. Supply chain, obviously, is the backbone of most economies that are out there.
But, you know, there's a lot of factors and, you know, with the current administration and what they're trying to do about to, you know, revitalize the United States economy internally by creating more American jobs, which, I mean, I don't know very many people who are against creating more American jobs. But what I think, you know, and especially with all this tariff talk that's going on, I feel like a lot of people forget how long it takes to get stuff up and running, and they're thinking in seconds.
When I truly feel like Trump is talking more in the next 20, 30 years about reindustrialization in the United States, and clearly there's plenty of foreign entities out there in countries who believe in that when, I mean, they've already secured, I think it's like almost $2 trillion in foreign investment to rebuild here in the United States.
Yeah, you got that right. You know, so when you start thinking about it, right. And the time frame, you know, people say, oh, it's soon, soon. Well, hold on a second. Right, you know, and there's, there's, you said 2 trillion. We'll just pick a couple of minor, we'll cherry pick them. Right. So they just announced the other day with the deal with Hyundai. Right, right. Hyundai was going to go in and they're going to build this plant. They're going to build an actual steel mill in Louisiana. So when you start looking at that, by the time they start the actual construction and get that going, you know, you're in the 2026.
Yeah, right.
You know, so, okay, so that's construction jobs, that's infrastructure improvement. Some of that was already done ahead of time, but there's a lot of it that's going to happen. They're, they're not going to start bringing, you know, that plant online and up to speed until, gosh, 2027, 2028, you know, and that's just, yeah, that's just the Hyundai. Right, but you also got the Taiwan semiconductor out in Arizona and that whole deal. Right. You know, that's going to take another, you know, three, four, five years to even get that ramped up. A lot of these businesses that we're seeing that was announced that the 2 trillion you're talking about and growing, by the way, because when you got Nvidia and you got all the other ones coming in, a lot of people don't think about that. You know, that's 20, 28 and beyond. Right.
You know, so when you talk about reassuring these jobs and recreating, you know, jobs for the American worker, that's a long process. Right, because you know, think about shipbuilding, think about commercial shipbuilding, right. Supply chain, you know, and there was a, announcement made that it was going to be a million dollar hit I think is what it is for any Chinese ownership to come to a U.S. Port, you know, but then when you look at the U S ports, those ports right now, they're not capable of actually building or supplying these commercial ship orders that are coming out because we have to rebuild all that infrastructure. So there's a lot of work that needs to be done just to bring these jobs back home. I mean, you know, over the last 20, 30, 40 years, these jobs have left.
Yeah, it just left the United States.
And you know, Mark, I think that there is so much like I under, like I try and look at everything from both sides of the coin, right? Because I try and sit here and think like, all right, what's best you know, and I look at it, you know, from my perspective, like I don't understand how anybody is not like how anybody can like look out there and be like, damn, we probably need some better paying jobs out there and some of these communities, you know, then like just the overall, you know, the overall economy here in the United States and like, you know, if you just pay attention, like I'm just of the mindset in the stance like we should not be dependent on when we're, when you're the largest economy in the world by a lot, right?
Like it's like 8 to 10 trillion more dollars be the difference between the United States economy and China, which is number two, right. Eight to $10 trillion. We should not be dependent on anybody to operate where somebody else can go out there and shut it off and shut us off and cripple our ability to operate as a country. We should be trading with other nations out of like overflow, right? Like where it comes to the point where it's like, hey, we're all good now, we have excess capacity inside of our, you know, inventories and everything else. Then we just go out there and help that way. I just don't think like, you know, I don't know, it kind of baffles me how many people forgot just five short years ago what happened when manufacturing in China shut down. Just insert the chaos that ensued.
It wasn't like there was an inventory shortage for an extended period of time. But look at what can happen when another country shuts down for whatever reason and how that ripple effect that can have there. So like that's kind of my whole thing is it's like, hey, if we're going to buy whatever, cool. But like, let's make sure we're good here and we can operate for an extended period of time without that. We shouldn't be dependent upon anybody.
100, right. So when you stop and think about it and you got World War II and I'm going way back, right? We're building everything, we got everything here and everything's happening the way it should. You know, we go through the 50s, the 60s, you know, and then we start offshoring all this type of stuff, right? And I'm not going to get too far down into the financial aspect of it, right? But you debase the dollar, you go to a fiat currency, everything is outsourced and the actual strength of the United States, right. Number one nation in the world, but the actual strength of the United States, you're right. We, we are dependent on other nations to prop us up. We've become a service consuming type company or a country. Right?
So if, and I know everything was nice and rosy after World War II with the exception of the Soviet Union and communism. Right. And you go through that type of stuff. But, but think about this. I mean, think of how close were and maybe still are on the verge of a world war again. And you know, somebody who was an ally may not be an ally anymore and they cut off our rare earth minerals or they cut off our manufacturing. You know, do we have the ability to, yeah, we've got some autumn auto plants and whatnot. But can we make the intricate parts that go into that? Can, and let's think about modern warfare, right? Do, can we make those, those chips and the boards and everything that goes into that? Right.
So that was great when I saw the deal with Arizona and a Taiwan semiconductor. Right. But we are too dependent on external nations. I, I absolutely believe that. I agree with you 100%.
And you know, and that's a whole other component that's just not being talked about at all. Right. Just because, you know, like the foreign adversaries that are out there that could have been an ally or a trading partner at one point, but how easy is it to sabotage us from the inside out like that? You know, I had, were talking about this. I had Ryan Joyce with Genlogs on about a month ago and he, I believe he was at one of the three letter agencies for a while before he came in and did this.
He was, I've met him. He's a good guy.
Yeah, the counterterrorism effect that comes in and how, like that is an actual legitimate threat about some of these, you know, foreign entities coming in and crippling our supply chain from the inside out. So again, I think like if you remove the messenger from a lot of this stuff, Mark, I think it would make a lot more sense and people would be a lot more accepting of what is kind of being discussed at a high level out there. Because again, you like, we gotta look at the fact because, you know, I'm glad you brought up history. I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to history. But what was the first thing that they stopped when they were attacking nations in the past? What was the first thing that they cut off? Supply lines.
Yeah, well, yeah, you have to cut that off to suffocate those people from the inside out. Do you think? Any of the tactics and strategies have changed? No, they haven't. They just look differently now because of technology, where you can go in, you know, you brought up semiconductors. I don't know if enough people are even aware of what that would do if somebody wanted to put some technology in there and then just, you know, snap of a finger, shut the entire grid down.
Well, sure. Oh, sure, right. So there's already been, you know, numerous reports of different things where maybe something was added to some of our cranes out in the ports out in LA where they could shut things down. Right. You know, and then you also saw the, you know, now you saw the attack where the pagers went off. Right. And it blew up. I think it was last year over in the Middle east and whatnot. So there's a lot of different ways that you can use the supply chain and what goes in the supply chain against the country. And I think we as collectively as the United States got too comfortable. And we viewed the world as, you know, a interconnected global network. And were never going to have another world war and were never going to look at that.
And then things change, as they always do. But it does to kind of bring all this back. It takes a while to get the infrastructure back in place and build all this up, you know, and I think what from a supply chain perspective, just to kind of bring this back home a little bit, you know, as we start building these plants and start moving some of these bulk materials and things like that, you know, we'll start seeing an upswing in that, but not as soon as what we thought. And in your point about removing the messenger, you're right. If somebody else was saying this and you just look at the facts, you have to take the emotion out of it. Right? Take, take the emotion out of it.
Just look the facts, look at both sides of it, because the truth is always somewhere in the middle and say, okay, does this make sense?
Yeah.
And that's what you have to do.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. And here's a comment here that greens from Mexico said that they're already feeling the pressure from the tariff situation, that when they manufacture trailers, we're anticipating price increases for US made trailers due to limited production capacity, higher component costs driven by tariffs and expensive labor. Excuse me. His expectation is a slower economy in the short term, a reshaped supply chain in the medium, and ultimately a loss of competitiveness in the long run. And you know, there is A lot of that out there. Right. And I look at it, you know, from a competitive advantage out there. And again, I don't know when this all comes into play. Right.
I know there's a lot of war of words going on in the media right now between what's going to happen with Canada and what's going to happen with Mexico and everything. And I truly feel like, you know, like as the bargaining chip that is tariffs, that is kind of bringing things to the table. I think it's like when you look at our overall economy and we're 37 and counting, trillion dollars in debt, I don't know if enough people can even understand how every dollar does count and when you compound that over a certain amount of time, what that can do to help us cut into the national debt.
And when we're talking in terms of hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies going out there and then on top of that we're paying even more money to have them have their goods come inside of our economy. I think it's like, it's just a way to righten this ship here. And I truly feel like in the long term, Canada and Mexico will ultimately greatly benefit from a stronger United States economy. And I truly feel like the NAFTA agreement, which if memory serves me right, was repealed, will be rewritten here in the near future. Might be in the next 10 years. When I say near future will be rewritten where it will be essentially one economy that is running between there so we can have different manufacturing hubs throughout there where it's going to be like we got to fix America first.
And I don't know if anybody out there can, you know, even wants to accept that, but we got to fix that first before we can go out and fix anybody else.
Yeah, you know, you're right. So a couple of things right there. You know, there was a really good article released in the last probably five days on freight waves about one about Mexico and how Mexico could actually go into a, a recession based upon what's happening because, you know, United States is the largest trading partner with Mexico and vice versa. But you know, when you start thinking about fixing the United States. Right now, the CBO just announced that they released an article yesterday or the day before that we could potentially default on our debt. The amount of interest that we have to pay on our debt is insane right now. Yeah, it was absolutely insane.
And there it, there is some short term pain that we as United States need to feel and you know, whether you want to call them The Doge cuts, or you want to call them.
Yeah.
I mean, that's only a portion of it. Or you want to call it terrorists, or you want to call it. It's collectively an entire. An entire process tip to your. Your phrase, right, the ship. Because we are really in a bad situation. It's. It's not good.
I'm right there with you, Mark. It kind of baffles me a little bit how individuals just think that we can just keep kicking the can down the road, right. Like, without making any changes. Like, you know, and I think, like, the. The problem is most individuals can't even comprehend what a million dollars looks like, let alone a billion, 100 billion, trillions of dollars. Like, it's an un. Unfathomable amount of money to where people are like, oh, that. Come on. It's just $200 billion. What do you mean it's just $200 billion, right? Like, if we're looking at a fiscal budget, you guys, like, you have, like, you have to look at this.
If we are making a million dollars a year as a country and we're spending $4 million a year, like any business out there would be bankrupt and nobody would lend them any money. Right?
We're running a deficit. We were running a deficit. You know, many years ago. One of the things that really clicked for me, and I was a lot younger, was the debt clock. The debt clock.org, you know, somebody should go look at that or. And when you start seeing how much debt each citizen has and where it's at, it's crazy. And it's just continues to go. It continues to climb in the supply chain. It's. I mean, we're feeling it. You know, when you start looking at what's going on across the entire world and how the United States is going to put these tariffs in place, we've got to rank the ship. And. You know, another point you had mentioned before, I didn't get. I want to go back to that was. I do think eventually there will be a North American union, right?
Yeah, we'll have our different countries and whatnot.
But there it is.
Yeah, there it is. That's right. And when you look at that and you say, oh, my gosh, this is where we're at, and look at these numbers. This is insane. You know, when you take a few seconds and look at it, how do.
You can't even comprehend this? You can't, right? Like, debt per citizen is $107,000 debt per taxpayer, $323,000. Out there, you know, U.S. Federal spending, 7 trillion, budget deficit, $2 trillion.
Right.
Yeah.
And look at how fast that's, it's insane.
You can just go to us debt clock.org you guys, to look at this. And again, if you're looking at it and you're, you know, you're like, oh, 30, 36 trillion. 36 trillion. Like, it is an unfathomable amount of money to where you can't even take that amount seriously because you're, you know, you maybe look at your bank account and if you're the, you know, an average American out there, you got a, you know, couple credit cards and, you know, you got a mortgage and everything else, like, you've never actually, you know, seen anything like that because you're working very hard to go out there and just to keep, just to stay afloat. Right.
And I'm just like, just imagine a few years down the road of like, just imagine what an extra thousand bucks a year could do for somebody here in the United States in the short term and what that could be. Because I just look at it as a, you know, the messaging that's out there, Right. I think, you know, any amount of money, just imagine what an extra 500 bucks a month would do to most US citizens out there and how that could fundamentally change their life and everything.
Sure, absolutely.
Yeah. And it's, let me see here. Matt Fink says the debt clock is terrifying, but more scary is the lack of attention to it and the chanting, child ranting behavior of our politician. Yes, 100%.
Oh, I, I agree with that comment. When you think about it on both sides of the aisle, right. Everybody's screaming and, oh, you know, Elon Musk found this. I don't care who found it. I'm more, I'm more upset that it happened.
Yeah, right.
You know, so you, me, everybody who's listening to this cast, you know, we're paying our taxes, we're looking at, so our tax dollars who we have to pay. This has to happen. Are they being spent wisely? Right. Are they being spent in a way to generate wealth for the American consumer? And I don't think so.
I just think that we've kind of reached a point where I truly feel like it's drastic times and drastic measures are needed and it's going to be a giant slap in the face very quick. But I look at it like this, right? Like, if you're going to stop spending at all, you know, like, you know, everybody goes through this. I Feel like everybody looks, I hope most people have a budget out there, but if you're looking at your expenses, you know, and especially from a business standpoint, I look at it, I don't like, I, I, I assess my P and L on a monthly basis and I see what am I spending my money on? Are we still needing that service that we're spending money on?
And I, I've talked about this with James, with spi often is, it's the little charges that kill most people. Right. So it's like, and I look at it as if you're going to make any changes at all. I would rather cut everything off at one moment and then figure it out as we go, as opposed to trying to cherry pick. Because I feel like, you know, when it comes down to, like, leadership and making these hard calls, if you put it out there to the masses, if you ask 100 people what to do, you're going to get 175 opinions on it. Right. Like you need to make one drastic measure and then go from there.
Yeah. So there's some validity to that point. Right. And obviously the political network or everything that gets, that muddies the water a little bit from a tariff perspective. And you think about, I mean, some of the stuff you look at some of the terrorists and what the United States is being charged, you know, I think it's insane. So this whole concept of a reciprocal tariff that's supposed to happen on, you know, the 2nd of April, you know, Trump's Liberation Day is what they call it that, I think that really makes sense to me. It just, it does. If, if a country is going to charge us a 50 tariff, then, you know, we' charge that country a 50 tariff or, you know, until we get things in line.
I think a lot of, I think a lot of countries around the world have seen the United States as an opportunity to get rich from. Because we just continue to print money. To your point. Right. You know, Chris, when you go to look at your budget at the end of the month or when you're making it out for the next month, not at the end, it's too late. I, I can't go in a hole. I can't write a deficit because if I do, it's going to start racking up that credit card debt. Right. And then when you start looking at the amount of average credit card debt for US holders. That's insane.
Yeah, right.
And you got your student loan debt and Then you got, and I mean, it just goes on and on. I'm sorry, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say, I, I don't know if enough people could even comprehend at the fact of, like, we could collapse as an economy. We, we could go bankrupt. And then what? Then, then what's the solution? Then everybody sits there and points. Why didn't anybody do anything? Why did, like, we got to start somewhere, right? Is it perfect? What's going on right now? No, I have been very critical of the President in the amount of flip flopping that goes on. Right. Like, I don't like the amount of flip flopping up. We're going to do this and then. No, we're not going to do this in the same breath. Right.
Because I feel like there are a lot of small businesses who are dependent upon a lot of different levers right now, and I feel like nobody can actually plan if there's all of this flip flopping that's going on. But ultimately, I truly feel like we could get to a point if nothing was done and we just continue to kick the can down the road. It might not be in our lifetime, Mark, but I would almost argue with 100 certainty it will be in my child's lifetime when that could be a very real possibility. And then here's what's going to happen. As in most situations, Mark, everybody starts pointing. Why didn't anybody do anything? This is what doing something looks like. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. It's been like. There is a lot of that needs to get fixed, though.
Oh, I, I agree. I agree. Right. So goes back to the reserve currency, you think? But all reserve currencies change, you know, typically the last about 100 years on average. There's a study, you can go look at it. Right. But, but when you think about it, we're at that point now and you've got other nations and, you know, you got bricks, you got other things like that where they're looking at, and they're tired of the United States just continuing to, to just to print money. Yeah, and I agree with you. I think eventually if we don't change, it will collapse. And to your point again, I mean, Chris, you make some really good points, buddy. It's. Is this perfect? No, but it's doing something and it's changing.
The flip flopping part that you talk about, I think that's what we're seeing right now, especially in the stock market, because businesses don't like to invest in uncertainty and that's what, that's the point I was making earlier in this podcast was, you know, before the election, there was uncertainty. If this side wins, okay, we're going to invest in this. If this side wins, we're going to invest in this. But, okay, here's the tariff. And then two hours later, through conversations, political channels, okay, now we're going to roll this back. You know, it's all negotiation to try to get to a certain point, but somebody has to do something. And I think there's going to be some short term pain here in the next probably 12 to 15 months. I really think that.
No, I agree with you there, Mark, but I think like, ultimately it's a step in a direction that needs to be taken no matter what. The first. What is that old song? The first cut is the deepest. And I feel like that first cut has happened and it is now at a point in time where, you know, my hope is as long term as it brings more stability into, you know, kind of the economy as a whole and people are not afraid to spend money, you know, and then from a business standpoint, personal standpoint, and there, you know, and then like things start humming again. Right. Because all of this is dragging directly correlated to the freight market at the end of the day.
And I know everybody out there who's in the industry who is sitting there just hoping for something to change and it might not be as soon as you think. Right. Like I, that's why it's like I, I try my best to only talk about how you can operate in the current environment as opposed to waiting for something to get better. Because I feel like if you sit around and wait for things to change, man, you're gonna die. Like, it's not gonna change you. You have to create that change that you're looking for. And it's never going to be easy, though. You know, I'm reading a book called the Psychology of Money right now and they're going through, they had a chart out there about the US economy and what it's done from 1850 to 2010.
Was the data set that's out there and just the straight arm up that it's gone. But there has, but it also listed off, there was 40 years of recessions in that time and personal wealth and it listed off a bunch of shit. And I'm like, oh, damn, okay. But again, we are looking at everything in the. How does it affect me now? Nobody's looking at what could possibly happen in the near future. What Just imagine how much better things could look in a year, could look worse. None of us know at the end of the day. But ultimately though, I will always bet on the United States of America to win, to bet in, you know, the citizens of this country, right? Like I do the entire District of Columbia. I don't count them all right?
I'm talking about the everyday Americans who are out here trying to build their dreams and who are operating in this economy. I will always bet on us to win.
I would, I would absolutely agree. I think the United States citizen, the United States as a whole, obviously I'm partial and biased. I, I think I would bet on them regardless of anything. I mean that's just, that's the nature. I believe in American exceptionalism. I just believe in that. Not that any other country's, you know, bad. I'm not saying that. That's just what I believe in. And I think, you know, that's a representation of how we built, we as Americans have built this country. But you know, hey, we've got some dark times ahead. We don't, we don't make some changes now.
I, I agree and you know, I guess if anybody doesn't like the tariff message that's out there, just essentially wait five minutes and somebody will flip flop because that's kind of what's been going on out there. And I know that, you know, Trump notify or brought up the auto tariff yesterday and again, I'm almost like, just wait and see at this point because a lot can happen in five hours, let alone five days when this is all supposed to go into effect here. Mark. But again, it's definitely something that everybody inside of this industry needs to pay attention to and you know, again, utilize this to become a resource for your customers. Right? I'm sure all of them have been thinking about where are they going to start sourcing their raw materials from in the event something changes.
But again, you guys, this is like, this is how you kind of solidify yourself as a true transportation professional when you're coming to them with a lot of this stuff when you know a lot about their business. But Mark, I appreciate your time and this flew by as I figured it would every time you're on, man. But how does anybody reach out to you to find out about what you got going on, man?
Well, sure, I'm on LinkedIn, right? Mark Funk, you find me on LinkedIn, you can also send me an email. It's M. Funk SPI3PL and you know, I'll be at TIA so if you guys are going to TIA, I'll be there and also shout out to the broker carrier summit. I'll be there as well. Always available.
I love it Mark, thank you so much. And if you guys can't find Mark for whatever reason, hit me up you guys. I will gladly put you guys in contact with him but that is going to be it for today ladies and gentlemen. As always if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show, you guys. And if you're feeling really ambitious, which you should be after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because that's how your network's going to see value is because and then essentially if you saw value chances are they will as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon. No cool ending Mark. We just ended.