Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger balls.
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation, coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Monday, everybody. I got a very special guest. I'm going to bring him up here right away. We're going to talk about, like, sales, process implementation, business development, all of this fun stuff. And I'm not trying to date him here or anything like that, but he's been in the industry almost as long as I've been alive. So this is a phenomenal resource for us to have on the show today. So I have Mr.
Mike Riccio with more than Miles consulting on the show. Mike, thank you so much for joining.
Thanks, Chris. I really appreciate you putting it right out there. Right, right out of the chute. I mean, I know people know I'm an old guy to begin with, but so, so I didn't realize. So, so I've been, I told Chris behind stage, I've been doing this for 37 years. So. So you're, you're 37?
I'm gonna be 39 in like 30 days, so, yeah, almost as long as I've been alive.
Oh, man. Yeah. Well, I've got a few gray hairs that I think are older than you at the moment, so.
That's probably true, Mike. But, you know, a lot of this is, you know, for me, the experience can never be undervalued. Right. Because there's so much. And, you know, and you. And like were saying before we got on today, it's a unique Time right now. And it's one that, you know, both of us have never really experienced. Right. And if I'm feeling that way and you're saying that I know that there's a lot of people out there who are, you know, kind of. They're always wondering, like, is it me? What's wrong with me? And, you know, and I've kind of, you know, and this is something that we've really just implemented at the beginning of this year right now is. Is, you know, that singular sales focus on what we're going after. We're only paying attention to our daily efforts. Right.
Because it is a long sales cycle right now. There isn't necessarily a need for people to change things up. So it's like, how do we position ourselves for the inevitable when they need us? Right. And that's why it's, you know, developing out a system is something that I think a lot of people might be lacking. And, you know, like, throughout your career, Mike, you know, you've been doing transportation sales for a very long time. Is that one of those things where you found a lot more success in, you know, maybe from the mental side as a sales rep of like, hey, I'm following the process. I know this is going to bear fruit eventually.
Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head to begin with. First of all, a lot of people don't have a process. Right. And you've got to have a plan. Right. If I've learned anything over, you know, that, you know, my time is. There were periods of time when we didn't have a plan. Right. We were just trying to grow business, grow for the sake of growth. We were dialing for dollars. And, you know, it was all about activity and not a lot about productivity. Right. And you talked about that singular focus. I think that's really. That's really good advice. People have to have a plan. They have to formulate what's, you know, be realistic as to what they can and can't do. Right. Look themselves in the mirror and say, okay, what's going to make sense here?
And what do I need to go after to be more focused? You know, that old rifle versus the shotgun versus the rifle analogy. Right. I mean, and how do we get more focused on what we're going to do? The problem is, you know, Chris, that people get. They feel that you're taking opportunities off the table when, in essence, really, you're bringing greater focus to the, you know, the potential to succeed. You know, you've got a greater chance for success and. And What I'm really seeing is you talked about. It's like analogy. You're gonna lose weight, right? If you want to cut some weight, you know, everybody wants that quick win, right? Everybody.
You know, you lose a couple pounds or you lose three or four pounds or five pounds in a month, and next thing you know, you bo back up and you gain more weight, and then you lose weight, you gain back. But if you lost a pound a month, at the end of the year, you'd be 12 pounds lighter. I mean, I think all of us would be like, hey, cool, I'm 12 pounds lighter. And it's the same with sales, right? It's the same with. I gotta have a process. If you don't have a process, that's the first thing you should talk about. And that's what you were indicating. You got to have a process. You got to control what you can control, right? And what can. Can you control? You can control your sales plan. You can control your messaging both internally and externally.
Right? You can control your reaction and your behavior, and you can control your effort. And you've just gotta. You gotta. You've just gotta keep at it and keep at it. Because, I mean, there's like success book after success book or leadership books after leadership books. And what do they Talk about? That 1% of people who really achieve high levels of success in whatever business they're doing well, how do they get there? It's that they never gave up. Yeah, I mean, I come up with all sorts of examples of people that when everybody else just gave up and said, I'm done. I can't take this anymore, it's those folks who were left who continued to do it. So you just. It isn't easy, right? It's easy for us to talk. There are days when, quite frankly, you know, it stinks.
It's looking yourself in the mirror like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? But if you continue to do with it, 99% of the people are going to. At some point, going to leave and drop out.
No, I mean, it's very true, Mike.
Right.
Like, I look at it as, you know, we primarily specialize in open deck. You know, like, that's really all that we do at the end of the day. And to put it into context, I think when people see the amount of possible revenue that's out there, they think that they're leaving something on the table. But, like, just a sample size, the top 10 flatbed trucking companies in the United States of America can have like I was just saw this the other day. It's like $8 billion a year in revenue, for example. You're telling me that I should be focusing on other things like the $8 billion. Are we that naive to say like that's not a massive market share?
And just, you know, again, I always like to caveat this, that I went to public school, but if I took 10%, if I took 10% of that, you're telling me that's not a successful business right there, just 10% of that market share. And it's like, and again, I feel like people think they're leaving something on the table by not going after everything. And I'm here to tell you as somebody who's been writing my own paycheck for the last five years, you guys, the more hyper focused I've been on my messaging and everything else, ironically, the higher the return of my efforts and everything. And I want to just put this into context because it's like it's very easy to get caught, to chase pennies. All right? And then pennies.
You think every opportunity that comes your way is going to be a million dollar opportunity. As a sales rep, everybody's guilty of that. And I'm here to tell you it's not all right? Because there's a lot of effort that you have to put out there. And again, why are you different than anybody else? And I feel like in today's day and age where there is more information, there is more resources at everybody's disposal that is free, all right? Like there's more free information and resources at your disposal just through Google and going to a company's website, it's so much easier to separate yourself in the business development process because again, why would somebody who's moving equipment that is maybe 150 to $200,000 in cargo value, who are they going to work with?
The individual who's actually aware of that or are they going to work with the person who's like, hey, just let me bid on your freight. I'll do anything for you. You know, I just think like there's a big messaging thing, but there's a big opportunity that comes along with that singular focus?
Well, you know, I always go back to the adage people like to buy, they don't like to be sold.
Yeah.
So when you're on the phone saying, hey, just let me bid on your business, that to me that speaks of desperation. Right. And you're not listening or asking those open ended questions or trying, which I know is difficult. Right. I know it's easy to talk about. I recognize that it's difficult to do. I'm not saying it isn't right. I'm not. I don't want to be disingenuous, but you've got to find out what you know. How does this person buy? Do they buy in price? Do they buy in relationships? Do they buy in one stop shop? Hey, look, I just want to pick up the phone and make one phone call and have you take care of it.
Do they want to buy on the fact that, you know, from a safety perspective, do they buy on, you know, I want someone to handle the, you know, five stops to la, Intercity LA or inner city, New York city. Right. So you've got to figure that out and understand and then be again, be honest with yourself. Does that overlap with the value prop that we can bring to the table? And you're right, Chris, that everybody becomes enamored with, oh, we've got a, you know, this big shipper, this Fortune 100 shippers you and I were talking about. Well, typically those are the shippers that, you know, beat you up for price or drop you for price or you might not be the right fit. So go find that person that you are the right fit for. And that's.
And you got to spend a little time, you know, doing some soul searching and some introspective work as to, you know, what are we good at, what are we not good at and what sets us apart. Right. It's not about, can I quote your freight? Because if you get the business, you're not going to keep it, Right. That person is going to leave and get someone else who's lower. So where are you going?
I look at it like this as well, Mike and I was just talking about this one of these shows here recently. But it's like, you know, why, like identifying your ideal customer profile, for example, you know, who do you want to go after? Because it's like, you know, I don't work with Coca Cola, but you know, Coca Cola is a very recognizable brand out there. There's a lot of people who are like, oh, I want to move Coca Cola, afraid I want to go after that or insert any other brand out there. Well, that's great. But do, is your team actually capable of moving the needle for a company like that? Right. Because they do more freight in a day than some of you can even do in a year or do. Do in a year. Right?
So it's like, you knowing who and what to go after. And I'm saying this not as a deterrent, right? Like, I want people. Go after whoever you want. But you need to know, you guys, like, there's different capabilities that are associated with it, Right. Like their technology, for example, you know, hypothetically, might cost $10,000 a month just for them to tender you freight. Can you afford that? Right. Like, there's a lot of questions behind the scenes that you need to identify before you go down that path. Right. Because I would hate to sit there and try and tell people anything and then have you get to the finish line and you're like, damn, I didn't know all of this was required just to move one truckload for that.
Right. I think. And it comes back to you talking about doing your homework up front. And so many people, they just, boom. They get behind the phone and they want to get. You know, they want it. They just want to get. Dialing for dollars, right? And so I'm gonna plug Kara Brown's book, you know, the Revenue Engine, and she talks quite a bit about that from a marketing perspective and how. Right. I keep it next to my desk, you know, look. And that book talks about that. Right? And it articulates what we've been saying to people and talking to people. When I with somebody, the first thing we talk about is, what are your goals? What sets you apart? What's your value prop? What do you want to achieve?
And how do I help you move from, you know, your current state of where you are right now to where you want to get to? Let's create that roadmap. Let's spend some time. That's not easy to do. It takes time. People feel like they're not working on their business when they really are working on their business. Let's step out of the business. Let's take a few. A little bit of time. How do you want to get there? And let's reverse engineer it and think through the proper way to get there. Just because we build this roadmap doesn't mean if an opportunity over here that's not on the roadmap doesn't mean you don't take it. That just means it slows us down to stop and evaluate. Does this Coca Cola business make sense for us? It might. Okay, but it might not.
And really, we're going to get more with less if we take the time to do that up front. The challenge, Chris, is people don't always do that up Front, right. They just will get a phone call at more than miles. It'll be like, hey, look, we want to talk about business development, sales, right? That's. That's been my background, you know, most of my life in. And it's like, okay, let's talk about, you know, your goals. Let's talk about your plan. Let's talk about, you know, and they don't want to talk about that. They just want to increase the business. Well, we've got to do some of this work to make that happen. And it does feel, you know, sometimes counterintuitive to people, but, you know, you definitely got to do that. And honestly, again, I'll go another plug. That's.
That's what the sales success summit that the TIA is putting on that you and I are part of at this year's Capital Idea Conference is about, right. How to take your team, how to talk about, you know, Jim Kinney's going to talk about the fundamentals of sales. Right. And kind of, you know, blocking and tackling, how to make it. Make it work for you. Right. You know, we're then going to have Holly Labota and Sarah Black from Enterprise Selling, you know, talk about Enterprise from Luminaries Consulting, talk about Enterprise Sale, you know, your team Sales, you know, concept. Right. You know, Nick Dangles from Sync Logistics going to talk about carrier sales, which I think at this point is really critical because when the market starts to finally improve, to whatever degree that's going to improve, you've got to have relationships with carriers.
I'm a little biased. I come from a hybrid company. My previous company, we had assets, so I knew what it was like to be on the brokerage side. I knew what it was like to be on the asset side, you know. Right. And then we're, you know, Eileen Dabrowski from Werner, she's is going to talk about, you know, what it's like, you know, from the. From the trucking perspective and, you know, kind of, you know, what it, you know, what it means to be in that truck, you know, and then, you know, and then you're going to be talking about, you know, the, you know, strategies and effective coaching. Right. And how to coach your teams.
And so I would encourage anybody to, you know, come to that workshop that we're doing the Saturday of the TIA Capital Ideas Conference, because we're talking about all of those topics in greater detail.
Yeah. And that's, you know, I think it's like an event like that is. It's invaluable like, why, like, everybody should be in attendance to something like that right now. I want touch on what you were saying there, Mike, about how, like, when you get inbound calls and everybody's like, oh, we need to talk about business development. Okay? Like, the. In theory, getting higher revenue, obviously is the. The end goal, but how are you going to get there? Right? Like, if you want to go from $1 million to $10 million in revenue, you know, like, that's a massive jump, for example, Right? Like. And like, what I don't like about this industry, I'm going to call this out how people are like, oh, $10 million isn't a big company. Well, then go build one. All right? Go build one right now.
$10 million a year if it's not happening, right? No.
Right.
Well, go ahead.
Go finish. No, you no go finish.
Yeah, because, like, my thing is it's like, it's easy to sit back and say, we need more. More revenue. And what I'm specifically going to be talking about in my session is a how do you build up that, right? Like, how do you coach your team? How do you hold people accountable in that. But most importantly, I'm going to talk about a system that I personally use. Okay? It's the system that we do day in and day out. And, you know, and it's kind of that balancing act, too, of like, hey, I'm a startup, okay? So it's me and my business partner, we're doing both. Like, not only have I made 35 cold calls already this morning, I also covered two shipments that we're moving today as well. Right? So it's balancing out a lot of that. But again, it's following that system.
It's mastering the monotonous of the day in and the day out. But then it's like, what. But what's working for us now isn't going to work for us when we have 15 employees. We might have 15 employees here at the end of this year. Mike, you've been in business for a long time. Things can happen quick. And are you prepared to take those levels?
Well, bingo. You said it. What got you here is not what's going to get you here. And you have to understand that. And then you have to also understand what got you here, both in people and processes. Those. Some of those people may not make that transition. And you have to understand that. So how do you invest in those people? How do you train those people? How do you work with those people to lead those people, to help them achieve their Goals. Because, Chris, everybody thinks about themselves, right? They may love your company, but really it's, how am I going to benefit and how does my role and responsibility play into this? Right. So I'm a team player. Sure. I want to be. I want this company to grow. But let's be honest, how is it going to impact me?
And you talked earlier about how you're going to get there. So many people I talked to are concentrating on new business development. When you look at your book of business and you look at what your goals are for the upcoming year, only 20% of that growth is going to come from new business development. So you've really got to think through how much time and money and effort do I want to put in? What's the loss? What's the cost? Opportunity to be. I'm possibly losing by trying to grow new business and, or find new business and not grow my current business. You know, 80% of your growth is going to come from your current business. So you should be looking at your current business and putting a plan in place to. How do I, how do I intentionally systematically try to grow this?
People like, oh, I just, I want to grow it. Well, okay, how.
Yeah, right.
How does that, how does that company buy? Where are the lanes that you could grow? What's, you know, how much business are you doing with them now compared to their transportation budget? Is there a lot of opportunity? Right. Are they easy to deal with or are they difficult to deal with? Right. Let's. Let's look at the people who are easier to deal with. And I've got greater opportunities versus people who are more difficult to deal with and less opportunities. I mean, I know that seems like common sense, but people, again, don't stop to kind of sit through and look at their current book of business and see where there's opportunities to grow and then try to systematically or intentionally go after that business.
Yeah. And that right there, Mike, is, you know, we've been very fortunate to onboard a decent amount of shippers here over the last. I do a very bad job of giving myself any form of credit at all, so take that with a grain of salt. Like, we've on. We've got a, like a handful of core customers that we've worked with essentially since day one. Right. And, and that is the type of people we want to go after. At the end of the day, I'm not here to try and reinvent the wheel just to chase dollars. Right. Like, as a business owner, this pains me to even say this, but we leave revenue on the table because it does not fit inside of what we want to go after. If I wanted to be just another LTL broker, things might look a lot different.
But I don't. I hate ltl. I'll be the first one to say it. We don't even touch it. Right. Like I was talking to somebody last week, great conversation. 90% of their freight is LTL. The 10% that they do full truck. It's not going to move the needle for us because like we need to turn on revenue that we can kind of run with here. And again, we have that ideal customer profile. We know who we're going after. And it, you know, you brought up the 8020 rule, for example, like the new business. I want touch on the 20% that Mike was talking about there from a new business development. If you haven't cold called. And it shocks me that there are people out there in this industry that are running very large companies whose sales reps are not actively selling right now.
And I've heard from all of them back channel communications. I don't air my dirty laundry, but it shocks me the size of some of these companies that have said we're actually not even selling right now. We don't think it's worth it. Well, I am literally here to tell you this right now. I have been actively selling every day now for the last 24 months. I'll put it, I am going to dominate each and every one of you. If you think that you are just going to miraculously pick up the phone when the market shifts because who do you think they're going to remember? The guy who's been calling them with respectful follow up because I don't do it every day, every week or anything like that. Who do you think they're going to remember when they need you can't just one call close anymore.
And if you have that mentality, you guys, it's a different environment out there than it once was.
Well, and you're going to. What I hear back is yeah, they're just going to chase the dollars. Right? Everybody's just going to chase the dollars. And I get that. Yeah, I get that. So. But anywhere you can create a relationship and mitigate them leaving, right? And mitigate the number of people leaving or chasing the dollars. It's going to be a benefit. So you know, you hit the nail. You were talking about it earlier, you know the old adage, you should always be selling. Well, look, you've got to be developing a relationship because even if Your status quo, you're not selling, some of your business is going to leave, right? Plants shut down, lanes change, people change, right? You know, companies, you know, let people go and the person you had a relationship with that is no longer there.
And now you've got to create a new relationship. And maybe that person doesn't like you much or they have their own people that they, they're buddies with that they want to work with and you're not one of them. And. Right. I, you know, we've all been in those situations, right? Not due to nothing you did, had nothing to do. Then you throw in, oh, maybe we didn't service people the way we had hoped to service people. And with how competitive it is, they're, that's another reason they're gonna, they're possibly gonna get rid of you. So you've, if you're not, again, it's, it sounds cliche. You're not growing, you're dying, right?
So you gotta be, you gotta be, you know, and I, I run into that more, Chris, when things are really good, people like, oh, we got more businesses you know what to do with. All right, well then, you know, maybe you should be trading up, right? Maybe you should be improving what you're doing or you need to be still looking because at some point in time, you know, things, you know, things are going to change and it, you just, you got to be ready for it. You got to have a plan.
No, and that's exactly it, right? I think I, I think a lot of people want to rely on their brand as a sales thing because they think, oh, I work at so and so, we're going to be fine. And you guys, at the end of the day, they might not remember you at all. I hate to break it to you. It does not matter how good you do at times, if you're not constantly in their ear in some way, shape or form, they will forget about you. And I'm saying that because I am, all right? I am reaching out to them. I know a lot of absolute killers that are out there who are developing business non stop. They don't subscribe to the we're good right now. And I think like again, it's like this is that time.
And I've literally been banging this drum now for the last seven months. When things change, you guys, and they haven't yet. All right? When things, you can't just pick up the phone because of all of a sudden the market has Shifted. There's. There's layers to this, there's levels of this. And because that just tells me your reaction. Your reaction. You're reactive to the market and you don't have a plan, all right? And that means that you're going to resort back to old habits and everything else, and it's just not the way it's going to be anymore.
Well, again, not to be redundant, you got to have a plan because as you stated, the business is reactionary, naturally, to begin with, right? And I always tell people it's like playing whack a mole, you know, at the fair, right? You whack this one down, this pump up, you whack that one, this one pops, you whack that down, you. So anywhere you can mitigate or potentially reduce it, the better off you're going to be. Because you're always going to be reacting to some degree, but you want to be reacting to things that make sense for you and your business. Right? And so again, I'll come back to that sales workshop.
I think there's going to be a whole host of different opportunities for people to find something that works for them, that they could bring back to their shop and utilize and make their operation, their sales operation more successful. And again, I'll tell you know, Nick Dangles is going to talk about, you know, carrier sales. You know, right now, again, you should be developing relationships with carriers because if you're not, I mean, you should understand, you know, what it costs to operate a truck. Right. And again, I'll put another plug. That's why I like, you know, Dan Lindsay and his crew, what they're doing at the broker carrier summit because they're trying to get brokers to understand what does it really cost to operate a truck. And truckers understand that brokers just aren't wheelbarrowing money, you know, and burying in mason jars in the backyard.
Right? So how do we educate each other to, you know, collaboratively work better? Look, I get it. There's natural friction, you know, between the two. I. I understand that. But if they're. If people are just put their guards down, put their egos down, they recognize that each brings a certain value to the table. And you're. You're stronger together than you are separate. It just, you know, it's just common. It's just common sense.
I think the biggest telltale sign of a lot of those tendencies, Mike, are coming from people who've inherited books of business and never had to actually develop them. And then on top of that, never Actually, what were a carrier rep. Right. Because I can tell you this right now, as somebody who's rebuilt his book of business a few times now in my career, I can tell you this. Our business does not operate without our drivers. We try our absolute best to utilize our same trucks time and time again inside of markets based on the lanes they want to run, not the lanes I want them to run for me. I mean, again, like I said, I booked two trucks this morning. Guess what, you guys, same carrier you want. The follow up question was, hey, I have another one of these tomorrow.
Are you going to have another driver? Actually, I do have another driver. Boom, booked, move on, you know, and again, it's, it is a lot of that. And I think a lot of those tendencies, again, come from when you never had to work for it. Right? Like, the beauty of where I'm at is I've been a part of every dollar that all of my companies have built. All right? I've been back to when I was. Nobody was calling, nobody wanted to listen, nobody wanted anything. I remember that time. I am not going to jeopardize my business's future to put an extra 50 bucks in my pocket because that's ultimately what it boils down to.
And when you sit there and drive this down day in and day out, you're not paying attention to how many times do those loads fall off and everything else because you're like, oh, we booked it for 15. All those carriers wanted 15, 50. Look at how great we are as you just wasted five hours recovering it seven times. So, yeah.
Yeah. And so I, and I always kind of chuckle a lot of times. You'll see on somebody's website, you know, we're, we're carrier friendly. We want, we want partnerships, we want relationships, we want to be mutual. But then how are you incentivizing the people on the floor to get the maximum dollar for every single load every single time? And so to me, those two don't equate. Right. And people aren't viewing the value of time and the lost opportunity cost. As you just indicated those five hours in your example, how many other loads could you have booked? Right? And people don't take the time to stop and think through. So like when you're managing people and you're training, you need to be, you know, look, we both recognize it's not in a vacuum. Right? I get it. Right.
But, but we're talking in generalities that, you know, you need to take some time to really train your people to Be thinking through the relationship because again, people like to buy, they don't like to be sold. Think about your. If you were on the other end, if you were that carrier, how would you want to, you know, how would you want to be dealt with? How would, what would that look like for you? What does that feel like? What does that sound like? Is it, you know, and you know you're gonna make your biggest bang for your buck. Okay? If you do that every single time, it's gonna come back and bite you at some point. It's just a matter of when.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Mike. Mike, I, I. This is why people need to come to this event. Honestly, I'm gonna oversell this event, you guys, because, a, I'm a part of it. And, you know, I'm having all the instructors come on this show as a way to just drive awareness to this. Right? Because it's like, you need to be prepared. I truly feel like the days of the Wild West. And again, I'm not trying to date my man Mike here, but, you know, like, Mike's been around. He's seen market ships, you guys. And, you know, from my perspective, as somebody who's been in transportation for 20 years, I've been a broker specifically for over 14 years now. This is a unique time. All right? We are at a time of when data, information, everything is truly at the forefront.
And this is one of those things where I, like, I don't think the industry is going to be changing, but the way that things, how it's operated, and the decisions that are made are vastly different than the ones they once were. But, Mike, how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on, man?
Sure. The best way to reach out to me is you can reach out to me in my email. It's mikeorthanmilesconsulting.com it's all one word more than Miles Consulting. You can call me at 585-734-33-699. Feel free. So that's my cell phone that's on my signature at the bottom of my emails. And so by any means, feel free to reach out. Happy to talk to anybody about trying to assist them and help them grow their sales or grow their business, really, you know, create a strategy that makes sense for them. Right? Because as I, Chris, I say this all the time. A day turns into a week, turns into a month turns into a year, and you turn around. It's like, how to get here. And it could be. It doesn't mean it's bad. It could be good.
But it's so hard for small entrepreneurs to take some time to step out of it and say, okay, where do I really want to be? What does that look like for me? And that's different for everybody. Right. And so I really enjoy trying to help people find that out for themselves.
Absolutely. We could go on another 30 minutes about just that alone. But we're, we got. I got to get back after it here. But that you guys, as always, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling very ambitious, which you should be after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify, you guys, because that's how we reach more people is because if you saw value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Thanks, Chris.