Lightning like Steve McQueen? I'm in the fast lane when the light turns green. Built tough, find nothing but grit. Cause I made rugged blood sweat and spit? Yeah, like a horse I fly? Better put yourself in for a bumpy ride. I like to play hard but I work harder and I weather the storm. Cause I'm built stronger.
What is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Frank Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Thursday, everybody. We got a very special guest for you guys. She's a repeat guest. We're going to talk about her. I mean, she's the most qualified person out there to talk about, you know, near shoring and everything else. But before I bring her up, I just want to give you guys a heads up. We got a weekly newsletter, okay? I don't auto sign people up for that stuff because I don't like it. The polls that I put out there on social media, the audience hates it when people sign them up for it. So I'm not going to do that. But if you want to go to the freightcoach.com it will auto prompt you to register for it every Wednesday.
Trust me, it's all about freight. I'm not trying to be a life coach or anything like that, but check that out, you guys. But anyways, with that being said, welcome back to the show. Mia, how are you with S works? Good to see you again.
Good to see you.
Jolly now.
I'm super excited. Thanks for having me again. I think that this is going to be even better this time around.
I agree, Mia. You know, and it's like, and I think like it's perfect timing as well because it's, you know, the beginning of the year. A lot of companies are out there reassessing what direction they want to go and there's a lot hinging on this hypothetical market shift that seemingly has already happened, the recession's over, everybody should just be hiring non stop. But for the people that are operating in the real world, they're like, where the hell are all the results? Like, I thought this was supposed to be done and it's not. But like, there's a, there's a strategic way that people can go about building out their teams and you know, so like, what are you guys hearing out there? Like, what are the conversations you're having?
Are people like, hey, we got to get this up and running now, or they're being optimistic about it or are they kind of taking that slow and steady approach?
Yeah, no, great question. So honestly, we're seeing something different than what I had originally expected. Typically you'll start to see things wean down towards the end of the year when the holidays are picking up. We actually ended 2024 with December being our best month. And so far now we're on track with our goals for this year. So we're actually seeing people move faster than expected. And I think it's really because of all the change that's happening. You know, some people are saying things are changing for the better, some people are saying that they're not seeing anything yet. Now we also have a new president. So after that decision was made, people kind of stopped waiting and decided to really pull the trigger out. So I think that's a positive thing.
I think that, you know, waiting around and seeing what's going to happen to the market isn't going to be helpful because at the end of the day, you still need to continue growing and supporting your operations. So we're still or near shoring as a whole. Offshoring as a whole is still a really helpful solution, whether you're in that growth phase or not, because it could be even a survival technique. So I think that's something important to consider.
No, I'm right there with you. Right, like I'm a massive fan of the service right at the end of the day because, you know, from, you know, as somebody who bootstraps their business and you know, has to watch, like, how do I strategically invest in my growth? And you know, again, like when you don't have a ton of capital just to burn at every single waking moment, like that's kind of like the sentiment that's out there on social media. It's like, oh, you start a business, you have all this money, just fucking spend it and you know, and everything will be great. But you Know, again, back in the real world, when you're trying to grow strategically, it's, you know, you don't have the capital to hire people at times or, you know, hire five people.
And, you know, especially in the, the beginning stages of a lot of it. And are you going to take it from 10, you know, two people to five people or however that looks? And it's like, you know, can you get somebody? But then most importantly, are they actually like trained and ready to go? Like, that's another development phase of that. Is that what you guys are doing kind of behind the scenes? I've always wondered that. Are you guys bringing people in, training them up on logistics? So it's almost like there's a bullpen of talent just ready to go.
Great question. So there's a couple of different ways that one can approach it. We AT S Works do have what I like to call kind of like an orientation program where we do have individuals that are there and they're kind of being shaped up. Now. Depending on what access, what resources we're able to use in that moment, we might actually have them shadowing, training and actually forming them up. Or it might just be almost like another vetting process or another filter and really qualifying their soft skills. Are they asking questions? Are they engaging? You know, those things that are equally as important as their actual work history. So I think depending on which company you're looking to partner with, they kind of do things a little bit differently.
Some I do know are very specific to transportation logistics and have just a robust program around that. And so everybody starts at a different kind, at the same kind of benchmark, versus for us, AT S Works, it's a little bit more personalized. So somebody might say, hey, I need somebody that knows how to work with Hopper vans or something very specific and wanting that niche. Then we'll go look for that niche. So for us, it's a little bit counterproductive sometimes to have just a bench of template profiles. It's. Sometimes it's better the way that we work in that tailored approach to actually do more of a one by one kind of thing. But I think it's also important to note that the stereotype around near shoring and offshoring has changed.
It used to be really around those back office standard operational roles, but nowadays we started to realize that we can do so much more with that. So I think that's also part of why those smaller companies or smaller businesses can also take advantage of this relationship or these partnerships. It's not just Your accounts payable and accounts receivable rep. It could be somebody that grows to do even more, to manage the whole department. It could be somebody on your marketing team. It could be a hunter that's helping you. You guys actually get that revenue. You know, those pieces that you need money in your pocket so you can keep going up and up.
When do you think that sentiment shifted because there was almost a stigma associated with it? I. I don't even know, like, a couple years ago. It. But it's. It's seemingly. I. I don't know if it's because everybody kind of just like, no, this is exactly what we utilize. And I think it was kind of the fact that everybody realized that, no, it's not just me who's doing it. And then they almost didn't want to tell for some reason, which I don't know why it would matter. But, like, it kind of seems like there's been almost a no. This is exactly what we do. This is exactly how we build out our teams. When did you notice that as well?
Yeah, so I think I've been maybe not around enough to see it and witness it myself, but I've been able to explore a little bit and see what happened. And to be honest, a lot of people say it's the pandemic. Right. The pandemic pushed us to do more offshoring and nearshoring, and I totally agree. But if you really look at numbers, there was already still a large amount of companies that are already using offshoring, specifically in the Philippines and India. Now what we're seeing is more of that push from offshoring to near shoring into Central and South America. A huge piece being just the relationship as a whole with different countries. So, you know, the relationship weakens with China and it starts to strengthen with Mexico. We've been starting to move everything into that area, and now we have a workforce that's more bilingual.
So now we want to have more bilingual reps on our team. So accessing South America talent, like El Salvador, like Colombia, Argentina, things of that nature. Now people are starting to realize that they need to put their cultural differences aside and consider these options that at the end of the day, they're still going to get the same quality, if not higher. So I think a lot of it is rooted to politics and government, but then as a result, you know, social norms as well, and how we started to look at each other as neighbors and treat each other, I think that's also opened up the doors to be more willing to work with people across borders.
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. I think, you know, like, that's one thing. I mean, especially in this industry as a whole, having somebody who is bilingual on your staff is massive. Right. And it's a major value add to there. And even from like a prospecting perspective, like, I see it like my wife's from Mexico, all right. And when she's out there, like she's able to just to turn that on, start speaking Spanish and everything, it's just a different level of connection. And I feel like it's that. I think it's definitely worth people looking into and building out a team around that. And especially from, you know, the driver community as well. Most brokers need to look into that.
You want to have somebody on your staff that, you know, if it's Spanish, Russian, whatever it is, have them on staff to help assist in those moves. And I think it's just going to make you a more well rounded company at the end of the day.
And I love that you brought up the piece about drivers because I was talking to a transportation company recently. They have like over 400 trucks. And I was asking them about how they recruit their drivers and their experience, because it seemed there, I could be wrong, but it was around 55 to 60 years was the mean age of their drivers. So, you know, they're aging out, but what are you guys doing to bring on new ones? All the majority of their drivers were all either monolingual, only Spanish speakers or bilingual. And not a single one of their recruiters spoke Spanish. So I'm like, well, right there, you know, that's like a huge red flag, you know, something's not right, you know, and the other piece is the aging workforce. So what are you guys doing to attract younger people?
And they were actually doing something really cool where they're starting to incorporate like Marvel and superheroes and different characters on the trucks themselves or allowing their truck drivers to start to wear their own clothes and not those bright orange, you know, not so attractive outfits. So they were doing a lot to encourage that younger workforce. But I was thinking, you know, such a simple thing, you know, being able to have a bilingual recruiter is going to be, is going to help you access, you know, a wider population of potential candidates. And we all know that drivers are of shortage. So, you know, that's an easy thing that you could implement.
No, I completely get it. What are some of the roles? Like, how would what are some of the roles that are, you know, maybe transportation specific here that you see are the most sought after right now? Is it business development, is it operations? What is that looking like?
Yeah, I think it's almost like a catch all, like operations specialist, logistics coordinator. And people typically use it for like your simple tms, data entry, tracking and tracing. But then it also really starts to tap into some of the accounting processes and they kind of combine it into one. I think a lot of individuals kind of want everything in one and they don't realize that, you know, that doesn't always work out. Now to get started that's possible. You know, the functions and the skill sets to do those processes are quite similar and transferable. But you know, in terms of the long term relationship, then you're not going to have an individual who's going to want to be a part of seven different processes and seven different teams and seven different training. So could be a temporary solution.
But the idea there, what I encourage our customers is to really segment out their growth and how they want those departments to grow. And then within that you can create individual growth plans for those candidates or those collaborators. So that's really the most requested. And then secondly is anything that's revenue generating. So really for those prospectors or those hunters and having somebody that's constantly filling up their database, their CRM, cleaning it up at the same time because a lot of these CRMs have a lot of data that has not been touched for years and years. So the cleaning piece is really important and then really handing that off to their US based sales teams because the norm really is to have them separated by region so they can go and make that base sales to face contact. So it's a pretty reasonable workflow.
Yeah, it almost, you know, like again, I'm not perfect or anything like that, but like it almost seems irresponsible to have a more than like a one trick pony approach to like bringing people on. Right. Like I'm like, we've decided inside of our company, like my business partner and I, we're going to lead sales for the foreseeable future. That is just what we want to do. That's where we've seen the most success in getting on site, seeing people, everything else and having those conversations. But we want to build up operations and like I want people who are just carrier reps at the end of the day. And you know, again, maybe it's just because our business model is open deck and heavy haul. Like we don't really do.
Like we don't do refrigerated freight, we don't do ltl, we don't do air, we don't do intermodal. We do a little bit of drive in work here and there. But primarily it's all open deck. And I just feel like from a training and development perspective, like long term, like that's just what creates subject matter experts. And I feel like the sentiment that I'm getting out there from the shippers and the prospects that we're talking to is they're, they're very open to the fact that oh, you just do that and that's it. And I'm like, yeah, that's it. They're like, cool, let's talk. It's, it's a completely different perspective that I've been, you know, kind of brought up in the industry.
It's kind of like back to the catch all phrase that you use that kind of was the way that a lot of brokers operated for a very long time is we'll do everything, we'll talk to anybody. And I'm taking the opposite. I'm like, no, that I don't want any of that stuff. Yes, we need revenue. Like we're not in a position to turn away freight. Right. We are in a very growth stage of our business. But when we're out there actually speaking to our prospects and our customers, they love the fact that's all we do. They are very open to that and that subject matter expertise that we're bringing to it.
And I truly feel as tech and data becomes more and more readily available to the shipper and the manufacturer community, there's not going to be a need for that jack of all trade anymore. There's going to be service providers that are going to really identify themselves and solidify themselves in certain modes and that's just going to be the way that they're going to move going forward. I don't know. That's just what, that's just my perspective, that's my stance from somebody who's actually prospecting.
I totally agree. I think that if you try to do everything, you end up doing absolutely nothing. And those are typically the companies that don't actually end up making the moves to near shoring or offshoring because they're actually lacking the structure internally and really understanding how they want their departments to grow or be set up and how they want the individuals within that. So it's, I see it a lot for those maybe like MA and PA shops or they've been around for a longer time and though they've never really sat down or they've never took they never took the step to really actually make a change. It's scary, you know, like when we're switching TMS systems, you know, nobody wants to do it, but sometimes you have to do it and it's the long winded process.
You have to take five steps backwards, but you end up taking 10 steps forward. So it's important to recognize that piece. But I think that applies when you're setting up your company within the United States or within looking for a partner as well. You know, you need to have that structure and then you can put the pawns in place or else it's just going to be like throwing darts at a wall and hoping that something sticks.
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. And I just had Jim Kenny on the show yesterday. He, you know, were talking about training and development. We were talking about that he works with the CIA a lot. And like we're doing a sales summit at Capital Ideas Conference where we're going to be breaking this stuff down. And you know, I, I just look at it from like a long term perspective like and how we're going to develop people out because you know, eventually you're going to get to that point in your business or your growth where like you're not going to be able to have your hands in everything. And I, I don't, I want to eliminate bottlenecks early on as early on as I possibly can. Right.
And I feel like from a training and development perspective, having people doing the exact same thing day in and day out, having those conversation, it makes them way more confident on the phone and it gives them the confidence to actually make decisions where they're not going to feel like they have to go out because it's like if they're just doing 45,000pound tarped flatbed loads as opposed to a tarp flatbed load, a dry load, an LTL load, a reefer load, they're not going to know what to do. They're going to be getting pulled in every single direction. And you know, maybe this is a short term thing for it, but as to get people up and running, I feel like doing this repeatable scalable processes is what's going to help you win long term.
And, and again I just, I, I know that's just what works with me. It's doing the same day in and day out. And you know, we talked about this as well yesterday, where it's like, I make 45 sales calls every single day, cold calls every single day without fail. Again, it's about doing that stuff every single day. Because it's like, I don't believe in motivation. Mia. At the end of the day, I feel like everybody can do anything when they're motivated. And those people are like, oh, I made a hundred calls the other day. Okay, but what have you done for the last couple of days? And I would rather have my people doing that, you know, day in and day out. I just feel like it's way more beneficial for long term growth to have those systems in place.
I agree. I mean, it's important to also be good at the basics, right. And just be solid from the foundation or otherwise you're scattered all over the place. You know, I had a conversation with somebody, they're like, yeah, so I just started this new role and like, I'm super excited. Excited. And like, so I already asked them, like, what's the next step? Like, what do you mean, what's the next step? You haven't even done the first step yet. You know, you need to be good at what you're good at or else people are going to start to catch and say, you know, like, I talked with that Chris guy and he said that he can do everything for me, but when I asked him about this, he had no idea.
And now you're starting to lose the credibility before you even get a chance to speak on the things that you do know about and the things that you are confident in. So there's too many competitors in the area for everybody to do everything. Be. Be good at something, be strong at something. Have your team members do acting the same way. You know, have them specialize. It's. It's kind of like that assembly line idea where, you know, everybody is focused one item and they're really good at that piece. And at the end of the day, we can make an incredible puzzle. But if you have everybody trying to grab different pieces from the puzzle at the same time that you have hands everywhere, you can't even see the picture of the puzzle. It's impossible.
Yeah, no, you're very right. And you know, again, obviously I'm a fan of technology, I'm a fan of automation, if you can afford it and everything. But, you know, rest assured, if you're out there thinking you need to do a lot more, and you brought up the blocking and the tackling and the basics. I have yet to find a shipper of mine or a prospect of mine who was concerned about my tech stack when I'm planning a load with them, when I'm executing a load with them, I have yet to have them be like, hey, what's your tech stack look like here? You know, it's like, hey, can you fucking pick this up at 2:00 like you said you did? Hey, this flatbed load that needed eight foot drop tarps, why the didn't this driver had it?
You know, like that's really what they're ultimately concerned about. You know, not everybody. I know that anybody could, you know, be and be like, oh, I've got this one per cool. You've got that one person. But for the overwhelming majority, as you're going out there and you're selling to service, you're selling to that business, they just need you to execute upon what you say. Eventually the bells and whistles, the flashiness doesn't matter if you can't execute upon the work that you promised yourself to for sure.
No. And you bring up, you know, the buzzword AI that everybody's been talking about, but it's really talked at that higher level. And it's for those conversations about saving money and making processes more effective. But I never hear that conversation being, talking about in how you can make your customer service better. You know, So I think that's like a really big difference. You know, is AI going to actually just take time off my hands or is it going to make my customers happier? Because if it's not going to make them happier, but now I have more time, then there is absolutely no point in implementing it. So we'll see.
No, you brought up a really good point there. Is your customer actually asking for it?
Yeah.
I don't know if enough people have put that thought in their mind as they're deciding where do we invest in our business moving forward. Because again, buzzwords are prevalent no matter what, whether it's AI, whether it's anything. But is your customer requiring that? Does it make your customer experience better? Does it make your carrier experience better? And from my perspective, you know, I don't want bots answering the phone for me, I want real people answering the phone. Because I honestly think knowing where things are going, I could be completely wrong. I don't know. But seeing where things are trending, Mia, I think it will be a major value add to show and prove that you're a real person. Like, hey, I just want to show up and introduce myself.
Or going back to the stone Age of knocking on doors, hey, here's who I am. This is what we do. I think that's what's going. And I think the early adopters of that are going to stand out here because as everybody pushes automation and everything else, if brokers are employing air quotes, a bot to make an AI to make phone calls for them, you think shippers aren't going to inevitably put that in place to answer all of their inbound solicitations? No matter what, whether it's the person trying to sell them coffee grounds for their office or vending machines for their break room, they're going to automate that. So how are you going to get your work around and if you're not able to hold an actual conversation with people?
I think that will cause more of a demise of most businesses than I think people are even comprehending right now.
I totally agree. No, I totally agree. I mean, people aren't gonna stop existing. You know, the yearning to connect with each other and go and meet face to face is never gonna go away. We're humans, and that is literally the biology that we're built off of. So how are we going to stand out from everybody else that's using AI is still having that human component. You know, our faces, our names, our conversations. I totally agree with you. I'm a little bit worried as to what's going to happen in the future with AI, you know, specifically with the younger generation and their kind of importance or priorities on actually connecting face to face.
We live in such a digital social world, and it's kind of sad sometimes where there's literally studies and reports how children are having problems understanding different facial expressions and how to respond to different facial expressions. So body language is huge. You know, these little things that they're all subconscious, but they play into our relationships and in our engagements with other people. So I think AI is going to disrupt some stuff, but I think that those that still stay behind and stay with that human piece are going to stand out.
Yeah, no, I, I agree with that. And that's what I'm banking on anyways, Mia, at the end of the day, I'm banking on that being a, a very real thing and making sure that everybody knows that it's a real human being that answers the phone in a lot of those instances. Because, you know, again, reading the conversations, like, I think, like that's one of my probably greatest strengths as a sales rep out there is when I'm talking to somebody on the Phone. I'll end conversations way earlier than some people because I could just tell that they're annoyed by the tone of their voice. Right? Like, I'm not going to go out there and do anything like that.
Because ultimately my whole thing long term is I want to create as much of a positive experience with my brand that I possibly can out there in the network. Right. I want when that, when people hear Freight Coach logistics, I want them to have a positive recollection of that and that's it. Is that going to happen in every instance? Absolutely not. But if we try our best to control that narrative, I know that long term, if the next time somebody else reaches out to them, they're gonna be like, oh, freight. Yeah, yeah, I remember you guys. Not, oh, freight coach you. And then they hang up the phone. Because I've been on the other end of that early on in my career.
And it is one of those things about reading the room and, you know, again, I feel like it's way more detrimental to society long term to have a couple hundred million people walking around without a purpose. Because I feel like that is where unchecked technology could lead it to. And I know everybody says, oh, all throughout history there's been these moments. I don't remember a time when there is an actual threat to remove like 80 of the workforce in all industries out of there in, you know, in a certain amount of time. Because I feel like that's where things are truly trending. I mean, they 3D printed houses.
No, it's insane. But I, I think that it's not gonna eliminate jobs if not change the way that how we formulate them. And, and of jobs we even need, you know, now with everything booming in AI, the amount of developers, software engineers, and people in that world that are needed is grown immensely. So, you know, it's a different opportunity. Maybe now we need less people calling on the phones, but we need more people on a computer, you know, checking the phone calls and doing some kind of qa. I'm not sure. I think it's going to change in a lot of different formats and I think we'll see what happens. But I think the humans are never going to go away. Humans are never going to go away. People are still people. You know, I put myself in the other people's shoes sometimes.
And if I got this weird spam call from a robot, would I answer? No, I wouldn't. So why would I expect somebody to answer, you know, one of my robot calls?
No, I'm right There with you. Matt Fink brings up some good points here. He says perhaps a very sophisticated vendor evaluation system includes tech capabilities. But you should immediately ask how is that weighted against service. Should also find out why they are asking about your tech to find out why is important to them or just a box they are checking, you know, very valid points there in there, you know, and I feel like that's just another thing is, you know, you get caught up so much in thinking you need everything to do the job, you know, but ultimately I think like, you know, I, I just, maybe I'm wrong with this. I think that providing a top tier product to your customer, whether it's a B2B, whether it's near shoring, regardless of what it is, that's ultimately what it's going to boil down to.
Right? And, and you know, like, yes, having some amazing capabilities behind the scenes is great, but is that a requirement? Is that what's going to be a deciding factor? Some people, yes, but the beauty of the transportation industry is I think it's almost in the minority of companies who have all of these requirements to work with them. They're normally NAS on the nasdaq, right. They're normally publicly traded and stuff like that. And they're looking for that. But there is a vast opportunity out there from people who can deliver that level down to the small to mid sized market that has been underserved and they still are underserved. And I feel like, you know, for you to go out there and execute on that level, I think that's going to be very beneficial here in the short term.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think those smaller companies, people kind of look at them and brush them away and I feel so bad for them. But that's kind of where we start, really shine because of, you know, our personalized piece and that tailored piece. And to Matt's point, you know, I think it's really important to understand why are we asking the questions that we're asking. You know, tech comes up a lot and I've had all kinds of answers where some individuals, you know, say I need them to have this specific TMS experience and that's it or I won't take it. But you know, at the end of the day, like these are transferable skills, you know, why do you want that specific experience? Is it because you need them to know ltl? Because you're using that for ltl? Okay, well that's something else.
Or you know, you have a very specific API that you've created that you need them to be familiar with or whatever that is. So, you know, understanding the root of that question, to Matt's point, I think it's really important as well.
I don't understand how somebody could go to a near shoring company like yourself, Mia, and say, I need people with this experience or we can't do, like, train them. Do you not know how to use the system? Like, I don't know, maybe I'm old school, but I have a very unique way of doing things, you could put it. And I want to bring everybody in and I want to train them up myself because I think that my way of doing things is pretty successful in the long term and I want my team to be bought into that. And I don't know, like, I. I think that people might misinterpret what offshoring or near showing entails. It's not, hey, Mia, figure out my business's problems for me and then give me the perfect solution. That's just not the way.
We get that. We get that all the time.
Now.
It's like, you know, we all use Revenova, but we all use Revenova very differently. You know, we all use green screens very differently. So it's preferable for them to come with maybe a blank slate or at least context of the industry and the buzzwords, those kinds of things. But then learning the way you do it instead of having to unteach them, a different process and a different flow.
I'm right there with you, Mia. I couldn't agree more. Mia, thank you so much for your time. This flew by as it always has. The last couple of times you've been on the show. How does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you have going on?
Yeah, so I'm all over LinkedIn, Mia Mazal. You could also find us@sworksgroup.com or through this podcast as well. I'm also on Twitter, or what they call X Mia Mazal. But super happy to connect and thanks again for having me on Jolly. It was a blast. Us.
No, absolutely, Mia. And if you guys can't find Mia, you live under a rock. But if you can't find her for whatever reason, just hit me up. I'll gladly put you guys in contact with her over there at S works. But that's going to be it for today, you guys. We got a guest coming on tomorrow. As always, if you guys got value in which you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling really ambitious, which you should be after this conversation. Rank the show as well on itunes and Spotify because that's how we reach more peoples. Because if you saw value, your network is going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon. Let's go. That was.