1085. #TFCP - What To Expect For 2025 In Freight?!

Lightning like Steve McQueen? I'm in a fast lane when the light turns green And I built tough I ain't nothing but grit. Cause I made rugged blood sweat and spit yeah, like a horse I fly for a bumpy ride. I like to play hard but I work harder And I weather the storm Because I'm built stronger.

What is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live, actually live. The Freight Coach podcast, ladies and gentlemen, the top podcast in transportation. We are coming every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central. I'm going to save the rest of the intro here because I have a guest in studio and I love it because this is, you know, the second guy who's came in here. And, you know, first guy, Drew, actually.

Drew Burner, another SBI guy.

Yeah. But, you know, man, we. I love it. And this is why I got this space the way that I did, because I wanted an area where people could come in and, you know, and do this and, you know, have a pretty legit setup. And, you know, it's like I also worked pretty hard to get to this point. And, you know, it's like I just want to have an area where people can kind of come into and shoot the. And talk about what we like to talk about the most.

Absolutely. The space is great, too. I love it. Like, this is. This is. This is awesome. Yeah.

And we're building it out. So, like, this is my. Where I normally do my live shows just right next door, same, obviously. Complex, same building. And yeah, I just, I got this out. And when, like, when they came to me about this place and I saw it and I'm like, yeah, that's exciting. Exactly where I need to go. That's what I had in my vision to make it happen. And now it's like we're just going to build it up and, you know, I'll be investing in more cameras and stuff here, so we can do like a multi angle camera and everything.

I thought our podcast room in Vancouver was cool, but this is. This is dynamite.

I'm pretty impressed. Yeah. Because I think. I'm thinking what we're going to do here is put like a black curtain up there and just work on kind of some of the sound in here because it's a bigger room. And, you know, that's the next thing for me is always those little tweaks to the audio quality, video quality, and everything else just to make it up there. Because in my mind, Joe Rogan and I are on the exact same plane. Yeah. So to be Here.

Thanks for having me.

No, dude. And especially, you know, when you were like, hey, I'm coming into Phoenix. And I'm like, yeah, come in.

Let's.

Let's do this in person. Let's talk about this. And, you know, it's. It's been a wild ride so far in 2024. And, you know, I think it's going to be interesting as people start prepping for 2025. And, you know, I always like to just kind of set the expectation at least, you know, because I'm always looking long term. I'm looking over the next 12 months. But, like, I have to operate in the now, I have to operate in today because, like, it doesn't matter what I think is going to happen in 12 months or 18 months. If I don't put in the work today, it's all irrelevant at that point. Right. So it's like I pay attention, but I also don't.

I mean, you're constantly going to be innovating and working the business. This is not a business where you sit and wait for things to happen. You got to make things happen, and you have to be on every single day. I mean, it's same thing, even making calls, building relationships or expanding relationships within your book of business. That's a constant daily process that you get to be on board with.

Yeah, you have to build that system out. And I think, like, you know, because I just put a post out there yesterday about this is it's like, you know, closing those revenue gaps, right? Because, like, as you're going out there and building your book of business up, whether you have established customers or you're going in it from cold, you have those ebbs and those flows and those, you know, you're going to have those record months where you're like, oh, busy, busy. And then, boom, falls off a cliff. And then it's like it's closing that gap. And it's like, that's another mental hurdle that I think a lot of people don't even realize, but they're going to have to face at some point, whether, you know, like coming out and being an agent and everything.

And if everybody thought it was that easy, they'd all be doing it and be billionaires. The challenge is it's still a process. Building any business, it takes time on. I mean, here's how I look at it. Someone could start their own business becoming, I don't know, drywaller. Still got to go out and buy equipment, get himself set up. There's costs. Got to build up his customer base. It takes time. Same thing coming into being a freight agent. I mean, you got to have your relationship, got, have customers that are willing to move with you or customers who are willing to start with you, but none of your customers are going to give you all their business right off the bat. That's the process. That's that relationship process.

No, that's exactly it. Like, I mean, every cold call I made this morning before I did this show, that everything that I said, they've heard it all a thousand times, right? Like, it does not matter. But it's, you know, because I truly feel like the real differentiator is going to be like, when I'm actually operating inside of their freight, you know, and, you know, because I'm connected to a bunch of transportation managers on LinkedIn. And, man, I just don't think people are actually paying attention because your prospects, your customers, they will tell you everything you want if you're asking the right questions but taking the right approach.

Well, any customer you call, who you're prospecting and cold calling, they don't know you from the next person right away. You have a wall that you're trying to break down. I mean, they want, they're trying to get you off the phone as quickly as you can. And I find, I mean, we talked about this before is you got to listen to the small stuff. Like if someone says, hey, I'm really happy who I'm using, or I've been using them for many years. Well, guess what? He's loyal. Acknowledge the loyalty.

Yeah.

Like, people want to hear, you know, that if you recognize some of their good qualities and you and you share that breaks down that wall as well, too. And I think you were talking about what you say when someone says, hey, I'm happy with who I'm using. I'm really loyal to who I'm using.

I mean, I literally anytime somebody tells me, like, hey, we're good, we've been using the same providers for 10 years. I always break it down like, human to human. I'm like, hey, as a founder, I'm searching for that. I'm trying to build that up. So to know that's out there. Thank you for that information. It's because to me, that, like, that's what it's all about, man. Like, you're going to put in so much effort out there to build up your operation no matter what. You're going to make thousands and thousands of calls, everything to get a couple of customers that you can grow and scale with. Because that's ultimately what it boils down to. You know, the data doesn't lie, man. It's like 99 rejection rate in sales across every industry.

What do they say? How many touch points does it take before you actually can start? There you go.

It's like 12 touch points.

And I think a lot of people give up way too soon.

Yeah.

It's like all that. Customer is never going to work with me. He told me no too many times. No one wants to hear no. The reality is in this business, you got to be able to take no and just move on with it. And just, you know what? No doesn't mean never.

Yeah, no. And that's exactly it. And it's like nothing's going to change in 2024 or 2025. Like exactly. None of this changes. And you know, again, I, I feel like way too many people focus on the macro of things. They, they really do. They overlook the micro daily tasks that they have to do because like, again, if the freight market improves, awesome. If you're not selling, if you're not cold calling, the business isn't going to find you. You have to find the business. And that's why I get so frustrated and pissed off when I see this stuff out there. Like, it takes every ounce of me to not comment on a lot of stuff on social media. I literally hold myself to the standards of, all right, would a billion dollar CEO reply to that? And I'm like, no. So I move on.

So the same process applies whether we're in a down market or in a market that's is the perfect storm for us. Right. You still got to put in the work, you still got to build those relationships, you still got to make the calls. You still got to create value to these people. Yeah, relationships don't change whether it's a down market or a great market.

Yeah, no, I'm not sure.

Relationships.

And that's exactly it. And you know, I feel like you see that out There a lot where, you know, it's just the instant gratification, you know, And I feel like, you know, with our daily lives right now, you know, you order something on Amazon, boom, It's there within 12 hours, like that. The expectations are a lot greater. So everybody wants that instant result in business. And, you know, it's like, you can go out there and you can do something right for a thousand shipments. Right. But if you're not entitled to the thousand and first, you know, like, you have to keep that mentality every single time. And I think, you know, I don't.

Know, like, I'm as good as your last shipment. Yeah, we hear that quite a bit too.

Yeah. And that's exactly it. And, you know, and I know that you don't have to be older to really realize that and have that set in, But a lot of that stuff, like, I appreciate business way more now that I've had to fight for it for the, you know, the last. Going on five years now of being out on my own through. Through all of this is. Man, I don't take anybody's business for granted. I don't take anybody's revenue for granted. I want, like, I truly want everybody to get a 10x return. And I'm striving for a 10x return of, you know, whether it's freight, you know, like, say they're giving me $10,000 a month in freight spend. I want them to get $100,000 in orders from the freight that I'm moving for them. That's what I want.

No. Well, take a look at your story.

When you.

When you. You've been doing this for years and you stepped away from it.

Yeah.

And you got back into it. It's a process. I mean, your journey doesn't happen overnight. It takes time.

Yeah. And that's exactly it. Right. So I feel like, you know, a realistic timeframe is as, you know, it took us 22 months. You know, it took us almost two years of every single day. And really, it was when we got off the tech bandwagon of, oh, email, this, everything else. And I'm like, no, I'm done. I'm like, pick up the phone. We gotta start dialing. We gotta start getting in front of people. And, like, there's a direct correlation on our P. L. To where the growth really took off and that was because we picked up the phone and we started dialing and we got away from a lot of that stuff. So could it have happened sooner? I mean possibly.

And we've seen, I've seen agents that come on that have books of businesses and you know, I'd say it's, you know, it's a four million dollar book of business and they're expecting to come on and bring the four million dollar book right off the bat. There's a process to it. I mean think about it now a lot of the larger accounts you're dealing with, they have processes in order to onboard a new broker to their company. So that takes time that I've seen that take anywhere from a week to two and a half months.

Yeah.

Especially if legal teams involved too. So yeah, you have to have realistic expectations. I mean any type of business you build is going to take time. Yeah. And it's not. Is it easy? I mean I think part of it can be luck as well too. You could just have all a sudden all your, all the cards lay out in the right order and you know what, it all comes just at once. But the reality is that doesn't always happen as well either.

Yeah, I mean if you're going to go out there and you know, I was just talking to a guy last week I believe and he was like hey, I'm thinking about going out on my own. What are like can you talk to me about this? And I'm like ad have the money, like do you have the capital to sustain six months of not taking a dollar? I'm like you got to start there.

That's the minimum is six months. I would even bet on having a year's worth of to sustain yourself and to you build. You will make money in that period of time but give yourself. And that's the thing. I've seen a lot of freight agents come on board who thought they were going to make it happen in the first three months.

Yeah.

And they give up because they it didn't happen. It wasn't the expectation they expected. Sad thing is I've seen it after that they've left after three months and then the fourth month that big huge account that they are Working on, came on board and they would have sustained themselves based on that. But, yeah, you give up. Don't give up too soon. Yeah, but have that expectation that you got to finance yourself for a bit to get yourself go.

No, you really do, right? Like, you have to. You have to have the capital for that. And then I also told them, I'm like, do you have an attorney? I'm like, number two, do you have an attorney? And if not, I'm like, you need to talk to him. You need to like, what, have you signed at your current place? And then, you know, and then I said, number three. I'm like, are all of your accounts on board? And he's like, well, I'm like, exactly. I'm like, there are. There are companies who are like, yeah, we've been working together for 10 years, and this was the exact example. He's like, I've been working with these guys for 10 years, but they said they can't follow me, they can't leave. And I'm like, that sucks. But I'm like, again, you got to account for these things.

Actually, you know what? If you're thinking of going on your own, have that realistic conversation with your customer, like, have them on board that they're willing to move, and if you can try and have some of that process set up before your actual start date, that's a huge step. But how disappointing if you think that my relationship was that solid, that the customer is just automatically going to follow me and then they don't because of whatever roadblocks they have within their company. That's a tough one. That's a tough pill to swallow. So have those conversations. That's good advice, dude.

Like, because, you know, I. That was just like with anybody, man, I thought I was going to be a millionaire within six months of starting my business. Right? I feel like everybody kind of goes through that. But again, you're like, you. You live and you learn. You. You really need to be prepared for a lot of this, right? And again, like, it is all market driven because it doesn't matter how the freight markets, you know, performing. And then, you know, I think, like, another thing too is are you willing to jump on the phone and build up that system to where you're making that outreach every single day? Because, you know, again, like, your customers aren't going to find you. You have to find them. You have to be really committed to that.

And that's the beauty about the agent program is that you've taken away or well, we've taken away the whole accounts receivable, the payables, onboarding cares, all that stuff's taken away, which are not revenue generating activities so that the agent can focus on sales, building relationships, finding carriers to book or book their loads with revenue generating activities. So they have all the time in the world to be able to go and build a book of business and not be, you know, sidetracked by, oh, my customer hasn't paid or I gotta do collections for two hours. You don't have to worry about that.

Yeah, and that's another thing too is a lot of conversations that I've had out there in the market is the financial viability of your business. Right. Because if they're going to onboard you as a provider, they need to make sure you're going to be in business for 12 months and that's a whole other thing that's never on people's mind.

Right.

And then same thing, having somebody out there who's checking credit, checking all of that stuff, making sure that they're an actual customer that you can get. But on top of it though, like, that's a whole other thing like where we have the opportunity and the ability to operate as a hundred, $200 million operation because we have that backing with it. Right. So it's like, you know, I also look at it as if you're going out there like say going into 2025, you're like, all right, I'm going out on my own. You might not have worked in an operation that has a claims department, a credit department and you know, insurance, all of that back office support. So this gives you that opportunity to really understand like, damn, there are levels to this game.

You see carriers do it too though.

Yeah, 100%. As they should.

I agree, they should. I mean if I was a carrier, you want to be dealing with people that are reputable, people that have the financial stability, that have a track record of being in business for a period of time. I mean, that's all important. I mean, actually it's funny, we've onboarded a few agents who are actually their own self sufficient 3 PL providers in the past and they found when coming on to spi, just looking at, you know, how quickly payout carriers and just our track record and how long we've been in business and financial stability, they've actually got better rates from those carriers because they're with a provider that actually has security.

Yeah.

And I think that's huge. That's. It actually gave me a whole new appreciation for. It does matter who you work for.

Like, it really does, dude, it really does. Right. And I think that, I think people are going to continue to be selective going into 2025 about who they're going to onboard what they're, who they're going to work with. Because you know, again, like if capacity does tighten up, which, you know, the data is out there that things are, it's going to change.

Right.

Like the severity of the flip. I don't think anybody actually knows that.

No.

But you know, again, like that when capacity tightens up, which it inevitably will, how are you going to operate in that environment as a broker? Because I feel like there's a lot of people out there that have been operating in a broker's market for the last four years because it has been. Right. Like even during 21 and 22 when rates were sky high, it was still easy to cover freight because it was pretty much tell me your price, got it approved, sent in the truck and then it dropped back down to where capacity was loose. Supply and demand is basic economics 101, supply versus demand. I don't know if enough people are prepared for when there is no supply of trucks anymore. And it is, you have to fight for those coverage and everything and you're not in power.

I think those are conversations you have to have with your customer too. What is your plan when the market tightens up and there's no carriers? And yes, this may be like I deal with my asset based carriers which. Great. There's a place for that too. But I think every customer has to have a couple brokers in their back pocket. But when things tightened up and you know what, you're having challenges covering loads.

Yeah. And, but like that's where you earn your keep. Right. Like when you're going out there and you're developing customers from cold call to onboarding, you're not starting on their power lanes. No, you're not at all.

Why would they give it to you if they don't even know you? I mean I would never give my biggest lanes to somebody I never knew or didn't and never had any credibility with or trust built with. Like that's just ridiculous.

Yeah, it's your earn it freight. That's where you're going to go in and do it. And you know, and I feel like people should also look strategically into who they're going after.

Right.

Like I was just talking about this where it's like, I mean I'm not affiliated with Kraft Heinz at all, but like could I move Kraft Heinz's freight 1000%? I could. Probably better than all of their current providers because I am that confident in my abilities. But could my operations sustain that business if the requirements were we need you to move 500 loads a day. Right. So I feel like knowing who you're going after going into this because like again, say the market improves. Right. And there are opportunities that are out there. The last thing you want to do is put yourself in a position or your operation in a position where you actually can't do it right. And then you decline a bunch of tenders, then you're kicked out and you're never getting that business.

Ever respect what you can handle and you got to be honest with the customer.

What you can, yeah, 100%.

Where you feel you can, where you can be a good fit for them, they don't know, so you got to tell them where you're going to be a good fit for them. And the crazy thing was when the market tightens up and all sudden there's no trucks out there and the call start going out to the brokers, those don't come out at peak time during the day, normal business hours. Those come out at the end of the day on a Friday afternoon where there's a load that needs to be moved and it's the broker who works after hours are the ones that are going to reap a lot of the benefit.

Dude, work ethic is the most, I mean, I say it all the time. That's my greatest asset is my work ethic. Like hands down, it is nothing other than the fact that you will not outwork me when it boils down to it, if it's late nights, early mornings, does not matter to me. And like, and again, like, whether you're an agent or you're building your book of business for somebody as a W2 employee, you have to take that approach in there because it's not a 9 to 5 gig. Like, again, it's like if you want a 9 to 5 job, go work at Wells Fargo. You can clock in at nine, you're done at five, you don't have to answer emails until the following morning.

Totally. No, I think a lot of the times, I mean an example with Maddie and Tyne and this is going back six months ago, they were working on an account, never got anything out of the account. They were happy who they're using a broker. And one day, you know what, Couldn't get a hold of the broker after hours, gave them a call, they moved it all sudden. Then it was that one project that led them to start getting more and more projects and man after hours freight or stuff that comes in at the last minute that needs to be covered. That's where you Prove your worth.

That, that line right there, that's why you need to follow up every single time. Because everybody's good until they're not. And it sounds simple, right? But it's the truth. Everybody's good until they're not. Until somebody doesn't pick up the phone, somebody drops the ball. It does. And like, and they need that last minute recovery because again, when you're faced with that situation for the first time that you're failing a customer because it's inevitable you're going to fail. It happens. Most people don't know how to react. They kind of do clam up into a shell. They don't know what to do, they don't know what to say. I've been there before. But ultimately it's in those moments, though, like, that's when that first opportunity is going to come for that prospect. Right?

I actually even, I even relate that to even the agency model as well too. Do you not think our agents are getting contacted five, ten times a week from prospective companies that want to recruit them? Absolutely. That's where you got to work on your stickiness factor to ensure that, you know what, your agents and your customers are happy. So they don't want to leave.

Yeah, no, and that's exactly it, right? Is I feel like, you know, when you're going down to just building up that relationship when you're going out there just doing the simple things day in and day out, right? Because you know, to me it's like, it's simple. It's not easy is what. Because like, we all know what to do in a lot of those situations, right? Like, we all know. And I always like. And maybe you don't know, maybe you've never experienced any fucking turmoil in your entire life. How would you want to be treated in those moments? How would you want to receive that information if you were the transportation manager, right? And again, like, my entire perspective has shifted since I've been out on my own where I'm like, just tell me we'll come through anything.

And then.

And then you take charge in those moments and you formulate a plan. You bounce ideas off of each other. You work with each other.

So our buddy Steve, who lives out in South Florida, just south of Tampa Bay, they're prepared. They're prepared for everything. I mean, they went through their hurricane. He's got a backup generator. He's got his sat phone. Like, he is dialed in if anything goes down. Because his business is that important to him. He does not want to fail his customers. Yeah, I totally respect that. I think it's brilliant.

Dude, it is. But, like, you know, at the end of the day, man, like, you have to. You have to be prepared. And of course, people are going to understand if it's a hurricane. But, like, at the end of the day, though, if you're going to be out there and you're going to operate a company, you have to have contingency plans. Again, back to the systems, right? Systems and processes. That's where the real worth is inside of a business, and that's what I'm learning. The more and more successful entrepreneurs that I talk to, they said the real values and the systems and the processes it has very little to do with certain things. Like, that's what people actually look for, to invest in, to acquire. They look for the systems and processes. And how can they take that and scale that?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing is, you know what? Even talking, hopefully we're not scaring people. Being prospective, it's work. It takes work. Anything takes work. But if you want it bad enough and you're willing to put the work in, you can do really well at it. And you take a look at the benefits of what you have by being in being your own agency, it's your own business, yet you're not having to finance your business. Your business is financed by someone giving you the best technology. It's.

And that's exactly it, right, Mike? Because so many people out there are looking like, all right, how do I get investors? How do I raise capital? All this stuff? And I'm like, there's a capital partner that's out there, right there, that actually provides you with all of the operational support that you. That you truly need. And, you know, I would say, like, realistically, if you're going to go out there and again, it could be shorter, it could be longer, but it took us again, 22 months to actually feel like, all right, we got some real growth underneath our belt, you know, and that comes from outreach every single day. That comes from working every opportunity that we possibly can to come in there.

You can be homing at the end of the day doing your, you know, receivables and payables in front of the hockey game or the football game, or trying to, you know, put out quotes to whatever you bid on. It's work, man. It's stressful.

Yeah.

But you know what, though? There's a lot of reward out of it too, dude.

There is. And there is so much more opportunity that there is. And I'm like, I'm convinced 20, 25, these next four years are going to be the greatest four years for opportunity that's out there. If you are willing to work for it, truly, you will succeed. Like, if you can't win in these next four years, I don't know if there's going to be much for you.

Yeah, but even this business, too, like, being a freight agent is not for everybody. I mean, you got to have that right mindset as well. And you gotta be willing to be kicked around a little bit and still be able to bounce back the next day and go, you know what? I want this. I'm going to continue to do this.

But those are the moments, though, Mike. Those are the moments that actually build you. It is not when things are going good, like, it's as counterintuitive as it sounds. You become better when falls apart. Right. Like, I have become so much more effective and decisive in my business when things fell apart, where I'm like, How do I never have this happen ever again? You know? And again, like, for me, like, Mike, you could tell me, don't touch the stove, Chris. It's hot.

You'll touch.

I'm still going touch the stove because I don't believe you. Right? But then I'm gonna know, don't touch the stove at that point.

That's true. That's true.

Well, hey, man, I appreciate it. That's that. That's it for the 30 minutes that flew by, as it always does. But, yeah, you guys, that's going to be it for today. I got a solo show tomorrow again. I'm going to continue to break it down on what we do, how we're building out our systems and everything inside of our business. And we'll probably break down some articles. We got to show a guest on Friday as well. But that's going to be it. As always, you guys, if you guys got value in what you heard, which I know you did, subscribe to the show, you guys share it out there to your network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.

To look like we're.