Lightning like Steve McQueen I'm in a fast lane when the light turns green and I built tough I ain't nothing but grit cause I made rugged blood sweat and spit yeah like a horse I fly Then to push yourself in for a bumpy ride I like to.
Play hard but I work harder and.
I weather the storm Because I'm built stronger this episode is brought to you by SPI Logistics, the premier freight agent logistics firm in North America. For over 40 years, SPI has been diligently building the most successful freight agent network to provide first class relationships for our shippers, receivers and carrier partners. We are more than another transportation network. We are a dedicated team of professionals united by one singular purpose and that is to expedite our agent success. All of our agents are set up for success on day one as they are provided with a full suite of support staff that is ready to assist them with everything from after hours emergencies to financial and administrative needs on a no fee basis. This way you can focus on continuing to grow your business.
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TIE also equips your team with all the data they need to confidently negotiate pricing while also allowing them to communicate directly with both carriers and customers from a single command center. With most of your tasks automated through multiple integrations, your team can focus on making strategic decisions and not manual ones. Are you looking to revolutionize your brokerage by giving them a competitive advantage through automation? Visit www.tiesoftware.com battlestation to learn more. Just do me a favor and let them know that the Freight Coach sent you. What is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday 8:30am Pacific 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines, but most importantly provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve. So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. I got a very special guest for you guys here today. I'm going to bring him up in like 30 seconds. But you know, AI is obviously all over everything, in front of every industry and everything else that's going on out there.
And you know, I'm always interested to talk to multiple facets of the industry because, you know, selfishly, as a founder, I'm always looking to how do I improve, but how do I stay in front of things and then mainly like, is there something out there that I can bring to my customers that might improve their business as well? So with that being said, I got my man Harmon with Cartage on the show today to really break all of this down. So, Harmon, thank you so much for joining me.
Appreciate it. Thanks Chris. Glad to be, dude.
I'm. I'm really looking forward to this and especially like obviously knowing a little bit more about your background than the audience here does, but you know, I always love to start off a lot of these shows like this man. Like, how did you get your start in transportation? Like, what brought you into this industry?
Yeah, great question. So my family's been in trucking for the last 25 years. So by association I've also been in trucking for the last 25 years, just as a kind of a background. I'm Canadian, I'm in Vancouver right now. But I grew up in a small town about six hours north. 12,000 people. A lot of trucking in the forest products industry going up there. So my family's been doing trucking in within like flat deck, heavy haul and logging up in northern bc. So that's essentially where I got my start. I grew up working in my dad's shop, so fixing trucks and trailers. Did that for about 70 years. Every weekend my brother and I greasing trucks, changing tires, changing brakes, pretty much everything on a truck.
Learned how to drive a truck when I was probably 12 or 13 and then transition from there to work like back office for my family's company doing, you know, payroll, you know, processing invoices to. Eventually in high school starting a brokerage within my family's trucking company. So I think it's pretty common now where you have carriers who are also brokers. I think back then it was a little bit, you know, there were more lines in between where you had carriers that were just carriers and then you had the brokers. But there was a lot of freight that, you know, my family's trucks didn't actually cover. So we had customers on those lanes, but we didn't cover those lanes. So it was like, okay, why don't we actually, you know, if brokers could broker this to other carriers, we have those relationships.
Let's go try brokerage ourselves. So I did brokerage for about four years on and off, mostly in the summers. And then also while going to university I did that for a couple years as well. So that's how I kind of got my start.
We have a very similar background and how I got started because I actually had used to grease my dad's truck for him as a kid as well. Like that was outside of washing his rims when I was like five, that was like my real first job every time he came off the road washing his rims. And then it graduated into holding a flashlight. And for all of my guys out there, we all know what that entailed on holding a flashlight for your father when you were younger. And then I graduated into actually greasing the truck on my own. But I gotta ask man, did you have to dodge any socket wrenches when you were a kid like I did when you were, didn't, weren't doing something?
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, we'd get in trouble for dragging our feet. So we'd like. Yeah, it was like a fast paced environment, lots of trucks and it was like me, my brother and my dad doing everything. So yeah, we learned pretty quickly how to like, you know, work quickly or at least like pretend to work quickly in front of him. Right?
But yeah, dude, it was, I, it's funny, my brother and I are like, we'll still send messages like text back and forth about like, oh, this is a trigger warning. It was like holding a, you know, it's like a little kid with a tape measure for his dad. Hold a tape measure for sure. Oh man. So dude, like you got your start in brokerage and everything when you're in high school and you started doing that overflow freight aspect, which is a pretty natural transition for a Lot of people. What was it that made you want to adopt more of like tech inside of transportation? Right? Because like dude, I've been in broker since like 2011 and you know, faxing was like a big thing and then like an e fax opportunity was a big thing back then.
What was it that you were starting to identify early on? We're like dude, we need to automate this. We need to find some sort of gap. Like what was that thing?
Yeah, you know like going back to faxes that, I mean that was a huge thing. You used to invoice people by facts. Right. And I feel like the trucking industry was the last ones to get off the fax machine. I would say tech more so when I was probably when I was in high school, less thinking about tech, it was just brokerage. But then as I moved on from brokerage in university you see like the digital freight companies appear, right? The convoys, Uber Freights, Flexport. That was probably when I was doing my undergrad and thinking about going back to logistics after I finished school. I was like, okay, you can't build a traditional brokerage. I mean you can but it's.
You're competing with a million other people and the ones that adopt tech are going to be the ones that actually come out on the other end. Right. Or they're going to get blown out by these tech forward players which I don't think happened. But overall it was like there's so many manual tasks here. We're doing everything by phone calls, emails, we're not collecting any data. Everything's siloed that whoever adopts tech is going to be and does it in the right way is going to be the one that could really take a grasp and like change the industry. So that's where it kind of started for me. Now the past five years I built a company called Westcore Logistics. I was actually outside not working in the industry, doing some consulting and doing more of a corporate role.
Started WestCorps on the side really just to broker some freight for some people I knew and actually found a niche within like the project logistics sector managing international cargo for like oil and gas, heavy infrastructure and renewables and built that up over the last five years from 0 to 50 million in revenue with only four employees. And even when I was building that I was like, you know, this is a good lifestyle business but overall the scale is to something that's actually big. We're going to have to adopt tech so that was where actually I met my two co founders, Josh and Abdul, who have also worked in trucking, but on the software side. So they built trucking software. They have expertise in like, product engineering. And I.
And they started showing me what they could do with the new AI models that are out there. And that's where we kind of put two or two together. Like, okay, let's go build an actual AI logistics company. Use the domain expertise that I have and my team that I brought over in like actual logistics and operations and then their expertise on the tech side to build out this company.
Yeah, I think that, you know, to go back to what you were saying, I think that, you know, there's been a lot of, you know, advancements in technology inside of transportation over, you know, my career and especially over these last couple of years. And for, you know, the digital space in particular, I think that, you know, a lot of the traditionalists are like, oh, it's never going to happen this and that. I think they're very wrong. I think it just hasn't hit yet. I think it's going to hit. I think that at some point in time now, I'm not going to say that, you know, there's going to be a digital marketplace for literally everything. I'm not saying that at all.
But I think like, some of these digital brokers that get a, you know, kind of a bad rap out there because, like, oh, they blew all this capital and everything else, which again, that's a, you know, topic for another show. But it just hasn't hit yet. But it's going to. That the right people are going to develop the right software and it's going to work, right? And to sit there and I think, like, the arrogance behind some of these statements that I read out, they're like, oh, it's never gonna happen. I'm like, dude, you're going to be bankrupt if you don't adopt some of this stuff. Right? And I'm not saying you have to have a pure play, automated like, service offering, right? Like, people are still very much a part of this transaction.
And I truly feel like that's how a lot of the smaller companies are going to remain competitive out there because it's just gonna, you know, like, it's just a pendulum that's out there, man. Some people are going to automate, but they're going to automate too much. And then people are going to be like, I, I like, who am I even talking to? And then there's going to be the other End of the spectrum where they don't automate anything. And I think it's going to be kind of that hybrid model of like, all right, where can I automate a lot of these menial tasks but keep that human element that's there, and that's what I'm literally betting my entire livelihood on, is that I'm going to do, you know, that I'm going to keep that.
That's how I'm going to compete with the larger players that are out there in this space, is I'm going to bring a different level of human interaction that most people aren't willing to do. Right. Because their directives are going to be their directives and I really want to push that, but I also want to increase my output. Right. Like you talked about how you know, you grew your company to 50 million top line revenue with four people. Right? Like you did that because I'm assuming you had a massive technical technology back offering that helped you do most of those tasks, that a lot of people sit there and, you know, we'll call it what it is, they waste hours and hours of their week chasing these things when it could be automated.
Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. And I think you do need the pure play providers out there to get the rest of the industry at least to come to the middle, right? So it's like you have these pure play guys coming out there building, you know, building these companies with, you know, burning cash and then you have these old school. I mean even people like you who have, like, you've worked in brokerage for a while, people like me who are like, okay, maybe that's not the way, but we definitely need to come to the middle and the entire industry is going to move that way, right? It's going to be the people that don't adopt any AI, any tech that are going to get, you know, eventually they're not going to be competitive, right?
Yeah. I mean, because I just look at it as, you know, price no matter what is always going to be a thing, right? Like you can't just pay, you know, quote, $1 million, you know, like you're not just going to be a millionaire because you think you're a millionaire, right? Like you have to balance out that price and that service. Right? Because I feel like natural progression here, what's going to happen is people are going to want a cheaper price, but they're going to expect a top tier service. And I just think like I know that somebody's going to come up with that. I'm kind of banking on the fact that I'm going to come up with that. But I know that is going to be a reality. Right.
You got to look out in, you know, because I like, I'd like to project out into the future as much as I possibly can. Why? While also being real people thought Amazon was never going to be a thing when in 20 short years. Right. Like, let's be honest, they've really hit the map here over the last decade, I would say. But they were told that they weren't going to make it. How many of those things that weren't going to make it mainstream. But then that just becomes the reality. I think it's only a matter of time before this hits.
And I, and I think that the companies out there who are completely disregarding AI, completely disregarding technology, I don't want anybody to go out of business, but I don't know if there is going to be a scalable marketplace for you because it's only a matter of time before somebody gets in front of your customer, makes their lives even easier out there. And I think like, you need to be aware of this. And now, no, you don't need to automate every single step of the way of your day. But I feel like you need to find those legging, those legs in your day where you can implement technology to increase your output. Right. Because like, and I say this like, I want to give my team as much tools to succeed as possible, to make as much money as possible.
Because I don't believe in uncapped commissions. You can timestamp this, save this clip, freight coach logistics. My companies will never cap commission on their sales reps. All right. I cannot be any more clear about that. But I want to give them the technology to increase their outputs while also balancing top tier customer service with it. It's happening in other industries. It's already deployed in other industries. It's going to be here.
Yeah, no, exactly. Right. And it's going to be very hard for people to compete when your competitor is using a tool that makes your team 10x more efficient. Right. Or they're offering something to the shipper, and not only the shipper, but also the carrier. Right. That a regular broker can't offer. And it's like I'm already seeing that like a lot of tools people are embracing at a lot quicker of a pace than they were probably 10 years ago, if you asked me two months ago. AI, native logistics company, one of the first companies to actually do this and how would the market perceive it? We were a little bit hesitant of do we really put our benefits out there of what we can do with AI or do we just say, hey, we're building a company and it's AI first?
And I was hesitant of how would the market react, how would shippers react? Old school shippers that have been around, that have 10, 20, 30 years of experience. And I was actually pretty shocked that actually most people we talked to, even people that, you know, they've had carrier relationships, broker relationships for decades, they're very open to what we're building. Right. I've had very few people actually be like, you know what AI? Like, no thanks. Right. It's actually been the opposite. So we've actually doubled down on actually going just being completely transparent with what we're doing with AI and how it could benefit, you know, a the shipper but also the carrier that we're working with.
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you, Harman. And I think a lot of people need to also look inside of their personal lives. Just, you know, like if you won't accept certain things in your personal life for how you are as a consumer, you are extremely naive to not think that your job is not going to be affected or at least it's not going to be changing with, you know, a lot of these advancements in tech and everything that's going on out there. So dude, let's talk more about carnage. Like what is carnage? What is like you're, you know, you're bringing up, you know, you're really embracing AI. What's that core service offering that you guys are really going after right now?
Yeah, so cartage we are a native logistics company now. Our core service offering is essentially AI managed transportation. So managed transportation has been around for a while. That being said, it's mostly been used at the enterprise level where, you know, you outsource your entire logistics function to a managed transportation provider. What we're doing is using AI as really as a tool, an efficiency tool for ourselves to make managed transportation available to SMB and mid market as well. So to put it into perspective, just to walk you through it, we built an AI coordinator. We call him Wilson and Wilson actually works for our shipper. Right.
So if you're a shipper and you could be any size, but just as an example, you're a shipper with a million dollar freight budget, you don't have a logistics team, you have like the CEO or Like a project manager, coordinating freight, working with brokers. What we do is actually Wilson comes in and he doesn't actually represent cartage. We're not the broker here, he represents a shipper. So if it's, you know, Bob's Lumber company, the email domain is actually wilsonobslumbercompany.com and he works for Bob's Lumber Company. And what essentially Wilson will do is take all of your shipments from the quoting stage all the way to delivered. He'll also audit all of your invoices.
And even we in our platform we could integrate with our shippers bank accounts and we could pay all the carriers, you know, at the net, 30 terms or whatever is there, right. So it's like an end to end managed service. And all you have to do is really log into our system. It's very easy to use, very little actual change management. And you just talk to Wilson, Hey Wilson, I have five truckloads from Seattle to Chicago. And that's all you do. Wilson will take that info. He will already know that you ship out of this location in Seattle and it usually goes to this spot in Chicago that you only ship with dry vans. And this is what you know, these are the weights. He will take all of that historical data and reach out to carriers that are in our system, right.
And then book the freight at the target price or below, manage the freight, collect the invoice, pay the carrier and essentially that's how the flow works. So we don't have the shipper actually having to do freight coordination. Because in the traditional model, and you've seen this as well, is that if you think about the perfect world is there's two different worlds, is one, you use carriers directly as a shipper, right. And you have this logistics team and as you grow your business you need more logistics people, right? Or you actually just go use brokers. You should be able to as a shipper use one broker because they have access to 40,000 carriers like every other broker. But people don't have that inherent trust with their broker. Right.
If you give all of your work to one broker and you don't price check them, eventually they might start rinsing you and making those 20, 30, 40% margins. So the shipper will go to three brokers on every shipment. Now you're just creating redundancies. You have one shipper reaching out to three brokers. Each of those brokers is duplicating that task and reaching out to three carriers. Every time you ask for an update on a shipment, you Ask your broker, who then asks a carrier and gets back to you. And there's just all this redundancy in the work now by cutting out now kind of the brokerage in the middle and just having an internal, you know, managed trans provider, Wilson here, you get all the visibility on all of your shipments without actually having to do the work.
So every single email that Wilson sends, every single phone call that's logged, you can see within the system. But you don't actually have to do any of the work.
Okay, so say somebody out there, they're like, hey, we want to work, we want to have Wilson out there doing it. But we also want to work with brokers. We've been working with the same transportation providers now for 20 years, 10 years, whatever, you know. But so how does that work? Am I just sending updates to them like it would a normal one where it's like, hey Wilson, drivers loaded this PO whatever and then you just update it like that. How does that look? Because I feel like a lot of compete companies are probably curious about that, right? How does that interface work with their actual transportation providers and say, you know, maybe they do go direct to carriers on this. How are carriers updating them, you know, throughout transit and stuff?
Yeah, So I would say, well, you know, if our shipper has good relationships with a broker or a carrier and they want to continue using them, Wilson does not discriminate. He has no problem asking a broker for a rate and booking it with the broker as well. If that's what, if that's what the shipper is looking for, you would communicate just like you would with a person. Right. So Wilson would reach out to you. Chris, you booked a freight. Any updates asking where the truck is? Wilson would just reach out and you'd reply back by email. Right. So your actual, like as a carrier or a broker, if you're interacting with Wilson, your flow doesn't change. Right. Wilson has a phone number. If you need to pick up the phone, you could call. Right.
Right now that is our human operations team working behind the scenes with Wilson. So like our phone calls are actually done by a human team that will likely be, you know, moved to AI phone calls at some point. But I think phone calls and a lot of the kind of the higher priority items we still want our actual human team doing. Right. Because it's still a relationship business. We still need to build and build trust, build relationships and trust with carriers and also shippers. So there'll still be the human aspect. It's just all the Grunt work of like sending emails, getting updates, updating orders within a tms that is done by Wilson our team does not have to manage.
So essentially then say they are a higher volume shipper, right? They already have a, they already have a tms. You know, they're working with that. They have, you know, their own proprietary tracking system and everything. So is Wilson out there monitoring their tracking updates and updating the TMS and everything? I'm just trying to think. I'm actually kind of shooting from the hip here. I'm like perspective?
No, that's a great question. Two different ways. If you have a TMS but you don't want to use it. Our system acts like a full tms, tracking all the data on every historical shipment it has every. It's like a, it's like a TMS on steroids. Right. It has even more data there and we could use AI to actually extract data that a regular TMS would not be able to do very quickly. That being said, if you are a shipper that has invested money in a TMS, you have 10, 15, 20 people using it. We can actually integrate with your TMS. So an order gets called ready in your TMS, it kicks it to Wilson and our system and we can actually interact with your system. So it really depends on who the shipper is.
We're not really trying to force people to change the way they work. We're really trying to adapt to the way they already work and just make it more efficient.
Yeah, because I mean, I see it like this. I mean, I've experienced this, you know, a few times throughout there. This is, you know, you quote your customer and they don't respond because, you know, they have jobs as well. They don't just wait for you to quote on their other freight and everything. So it's like I can see that coming and I could see them, you know, improving their response times and everything else and then, you know, keeping their ultimately keeping their customers up to date. Right. Because you know, again, ultimately we're, you know, the receiver that. That's the. They're our customers customer for those of you who don't know that. But that's kind of the way it is, right?
And they might want to control that relationship that gives them an opportunity to improve their customer service on their end, to their, you know, their end users and everything else. So, you know, I don't. And this is why it's like I look at a lot of this stuff is it's a major value add out there, right. Because speed, I Mean, I'm a firm believer, speed kills all deals. And if, you know, and then as a broker I want to be a, like I want to deliver an absolute profit to their PNL when they know that, hey, every time I send a load to Chris, my customers always reorder from us because of the service that they receive, the updates they receive and what he does for them.
So it's like I want to see them, you know, because again like if they grow, I grow with them, right? As long as you're doing the right thing in that transaction, you're going to grow if your customer grows. And then, you know, it's like I've been a part of that with one of our early customers that I worked with early on in my career is they were a smaller beverage company out there at that time and then they just exploded in growth and we exploded in growth with them. Right. So it's like seeing that is like, that's what I'm the most excited about is you can get in on the ground level with some of these companies which I'm sure you're probably already talking to.
And they're like, dude, that maybe they got some investment now they're out, you know, they're going to purchase more inventory, they're going to produce more product and they're really expanding out there as well. So I think this is exciting, man. I think that this is a great value add out there for companies of all sizes too. And I really like what you said. Like we're here to fit inside of your current systems already. We're not here to come over and take over and have your internal team redo everything that they're doing. We're here to fit inside of that. So I think that's a major value add out there for sure.
Yeah, I think change management's important. If you go to like, if you look at the historical managed transportation providers, there's a lot of integration work, a lot of pre work just to go live like you might be working with them for three to six months. You have to spend all this money and move on to their software. For us it's like. So we launched four shippers with Wilson on November 18th and the change management and like the training was maybe 30 minutes and then there was like a few follow up questions. But it's so easy to use and that's how it should be, right? We're not trying to build this complicated software. Right. This is a full service. It's really just a dashboard that you interact with Wilson and really try to just make it easy. Right.
Because people have so many other tools they're using. And I think a lot of shippers don't want to invest or reinvest time in a new tool or a new service, even if it's 10x more efficient, because they're like, well, I already spent this much money or time, you know, integrating with this other tms or what have you. Right?
Yeah. I mean, Robert, fellow Canadian to yours here, he asks what computer systems were a shipper need to work with Wilson. What if the shipper still uses spreadsheets?
Yeah. So I mean, no computer systems are needed. Right. It's like if you're talking to Wilson, it's like messaging someone on WhatsApp or iMessage. Very similar. If you use spreadsheets, if you use PDFs, you could actually upload those to Wilson. Right. So that's one thing we could do is a lot of companies have purchase orders and it will say, you know, essentially everything needed to manage the shipment. Where is it picking up from, where is it delivering the PO numbers? You can upload the PDF, Wilson could scan the PDF and your work is essentially done. Same thing as spreadsheets. There's really not anything that we probably can integrate into. Right. If you use, like, whether it's sheets or just even if you shoot as an Excel sheet, Wilson can read that. And we could train Wilson.
That's the nice thing with AI is at the ground level, Wilson is an AI logistics coordinator out of the box. Right. But as we start working with different shippers and they use different methodologies, different processes, we could train Wilson very quickly to become an expert in your business. Similar to if you hired someone fresh out of, you know, university or like one or two years out of, you know, working in logistics. You just kind of train them up. It works very similar to that.
Okay. Where do you see this evolving into? Like, how. How does this grow and scale out over time? Especially, you know, obviously you can take that from like an AI standpoint. Like, how does this improve? Because, you know, I think that's like the biggest thing with a lot of the pushback on AI out there is, you know, where does it go? Is it going to go too far with it? Right. Is it going to take over too much of our. Of our lives?
Yeah. Are you talking AI in general or more.
Yeah, in general. Sorry, not. Not you. Yeah, but AI in general.
Yeah. I mean, I do think there's, you know, for AI to, you know, become as intelligent as A human. I think there's still a long ways to go, right? And I think just overall, there probably will be some guards put in. You'll. You'll get regulation. I mean, the government at some point will step in to regulate it. But where I see it is that, you know, very quickly, within the next few years, most businesses and the way they operate will change, right? I mean, just talking about supply chain, that's the world we live in. I do think it's already changing. Most people we talk to right now already know about AI and supply chain. They might already be using the tool. Come six months or a year from now, you'll see more adopters, right?
And I would say, you know, in three to five years, the roles people or hiring for will change, right? You'll have more management positions. You'll have less people doing data entry and that manual redundant work, right? And then I do think in. In the longer kind of timeline, maybe five to 10 years, you do see AI taking over more work, right? But at the same time, I don't think it's especially logistics and supply chain. There's too many relationships. There's too much, you know, people essentially operate the entire sector. You can't just replace it. Right? And that's not what we're trying to do. It's really blending the AI with the humans to provide the best service to our clients, but also the carriers that we work with as well.
No, man, I think that's a great point. And, you know, and for me, it's like, as a small business owner, as somebody who's bootstrapped everything, it's very tough to get a business off the ground, right? And I think that people really fail to recognize how challenging it is to get a business off the ground, to build something up, to get it up, to compete, right? Because it's like, as a smaller broker or a smaller provider that's out there, you're competing with the giants, right? Like you're competing with some of these companies who literally lose more in a month than you make in a year, right? Like, that's the scale of, you know, what you're kind of up against out there. So it's like, you need to look at a lot of this stuff, is this is what helps you do more with less, right?
How many times are you out there as a broker or transportation provider? You're missing opportunities that are coming through because nothing is watching your inbox for you, right? And then you get caught up in a situation that's going on out there that Takes all of your time. And all of a sudden it's been 15, 20 minutes. You go into your inbox and you're like, I just missed four quotes that came through. And for anybody out there who's listening to that and says, that will never happen to me, you're lying. You're full of it. Keep your opinions to yourself. Because I play in the real world and I've been in that situation, right? So it's like, I like to look at a lot of these things is, how does this help me grow? How does that get me over that revenue hump, right?
And for a lot of who, you know, what you're going after on the shipper side as well, you know, whether you're a small midsize business or any sized business that's out there, people are constantly looking at their headcount. They're constantly looking at, all right, what can I do? How do I invest? How do I get my business over that hump? Right? Because every business is out there is going through challenges, right? No matter what, whether it's production, whether it's headcount, whether it's their product, anything. They're constantly looking about, how do I get over that next hump? How do I get to that next level so they can stay in business, so they can stay profitable out there? So I really like a lot of this stuff, man.
I always love learning about this stuff, and I feel like more and more people should keep an open mind for this and then how they can plug that into your business. But, dude, how does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you got going on?
Yeah, I mean, if you want to learn more, you could go to Cartage AI. You can also follow us on LinkedIn. Or I could drop my LinkedIn as well. You could connect with myself. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Yeah, those are the. Those are probably the best ways to reach out to us.
Perfect. Harmon, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for jumping on. That's going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen. I will be back tomorrow. We got guests coming on this week as well, you guys. But as always, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there to your network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.