Lightning like Steve McQueen?
I'm in the fast lane when the light turns green?
And I built tough?
I ain't nothing but grit?
Cause I made rugged blood sweat and spit?
Yeah, like a horse I fly? I like to play hard but I work harder And I weather the storm Because I'm built stronger.
What is up, ladies and gentlemen, we are back with another mashup episode here at the NMWTA Cybersecurity Conference in Cleveland, Ohio. And you know, again, the thing that I love the most about this show is there's people from different organizations, different backgrounds inside of cyber and IT and everything here to kind of talk about their careers and really where they're at and how they're kind of fighting everything today. So I have Mr. Piyush here with the Ayana, excuse me. And you know, we're going to talk about kind of your experience in everything. So what brought you into, you know, like, IT and cyber? How long have you kind of been in that side of the workforce? We'll call it.
Sure. First of all, Chris, thank you for having me on your show.
Yeah.
And I'm Piyush Panchal. I'm the assistant vice president of technology at Intermodal association of North America and I've been with in since 2006. I started my career in 2003 as a Java programmer. Then I grew in the role as a solution architect as well as cloud architect. Since all the organizations moving their workload into cloud, so does V2. We did this transition into cloud in 2013. Then we started moving. Well, we initially moved one application. Then we felt that, well, cloud we can utilize a lot more than what we thought. We moved all our applications. Now we are supporting nine applications for aina. All the entire workload is into cloud. With cloud now, everything resides into a virtual environment. The cyber security is important because in a essentially collect a lot more data for motor carriers.
INA manages or administer standard interchange contract for intermodal. It's called a Uniform Intermodal Interchange and facilities access agreement. As a part of that program, we collect insurance information for motor carriers. And as of today, we have close to 13,000 motor carriers active participants into UIA. And we have 59 active equipment providers. That includes ocean carriers, steamship lines. We disseminate the data that we collect on behalf of motor carrier to the equipment providers. We also disseminate the data the UIA data which includes insurance information and the UIA status whether this specific motor carrier is good for the ocean carrier or steamship lines.
Yeah.
So we disseminate this data to almost like 100 US ports into the nation.
Yeah.
And they like run their operations based on the information that we provide. So it is very essential for us to guard that data.
Yeah.
Put the boundaries on that data.
Absolutely. Right. So I think most people, when they think of, you know, like an IANA or a TIA or the nmfta, like as a trade organization, you don't necessarily think that they're working behind the scenes to protect their data. Right. Because like, I mean, this is just me personally, I think of a lot of trade organizations as, you know, they're more of like a representation on Capitol Hill or something like that. They're not out there actively working. You know, from a cyber perspective, kind of like you guys are, you know, because it's like with Ayana in particular, you know, you guys are out there working with multiple parts. Right. Like you're brought up the ports, you know, intermodal, steamship lines, all of that stuff. Right. So there's a bunch of different interconnected data points that are out there.
And how are you guys as an organization working to kind of connect a lot of those different platforms? Right, because you brought up multiple modes, you know, just based off of what you were just saying there. So how are you guys working to make sure that connectivity is there and really. And then on top of it though, to make sure that every, all the data is protected behind the scenes.
Sure. So that's a good question. And let me tell you briefly about how diversified systems we created for Intermodal Association. We offer multiple methods of communication to our partners. So those are who are really using the old systems. We provide them data via edi. For the organizations that are using latest and greatest systems, we provide API connections. And recently we implemented webhook. So those are the method of communications. And for each method of communication there are different set of security protocols that we need to follow. For example, EDI communication that doesn't travel directly through the URL, we have to set up file transfer transmission. So it has to go through the secure file transfer protocol which we implemented. And over the period of time we check that there are protocols that are obsolete.
We do take care of that on our end and we do pass on the information to our partners that these are the protocols that we got rid of. You need to upgrade your system or either you need to get the data from our system. So we do take care of that on a time to time basis. API. So when we started with the API and one of the sessions at NMFDA was related to API security and they hand out a lot of good information how to guard your API. So on the API front also, we have been constantly looking at the forums to safeguard our APIs, what kind of token mechanism we need to use those things that we have implemented on a time to time basis so far. We are confident that whatever protocols that we have implemented, doing enough.
But I would like to stay on top of it. It's like a learning process every day. Yeah, it's not like that. Once you are done with this protocol.
No, for sure. And it's like, because I think a lot of this is, you know, the cybercriminals and everything else out there, like they're always evolving as well. Right. Like they're not. I know that they just kind of like, you know, they utilize fishing a lot because fishing is kind of like the low hanging fruit that seemingly is the most effective thing out there. But they're out there constantly looking for new ways.
And then like I look at, you know, you guys at IANA and like, you know, earlier today they were talking, you know, there's a representative from the White House here who was talking about cyber attacks on that and you know, the ports and the rail systems and everything that is critical infrastructure that is probably constantly under, I don't want to use the word attack, but like if our water and power grids are constantly being pushed to, to be under attack, I would probably assume our ports and rail systems and our freeways and all of that stuff is constantly under attack, you know, from foreign, you know, foreign countries to try and cripple us. Right. Because like ultimately you got to cut off the supply.
If you cut off the supply, you can cut out, you know, you can decimate a country within a matter of days. Right. So it's like those are one of those things. So are you guys as an organization looking at that or are your guys's members who are in and out of the ports every single day and actually on the rail, are they coming to you guys with stuff like hey, this is what we're seeing or this is what happened to us. Are you guys collaboratively working like that?
So not really. There is another department within a education department and on a time to time basis they organize webinars with industry experts and the industry experts talk about what to do, what not to do, the conference like nmfda. So we rely on those information, but we ourselves doesn't do anything related to the cybersecurity on our customers. Yeah, because it's like if you were to do it, we need to gain a control over to that system.
Yeah.
So all we do is we disseminate the data, we provide the data over to their systems, but we do not actually control their system.
Okay.
But yeah, if we see something on our side where, for example, the protocols so we pass on that information, even we also get the data from government system, like not nmfta, but the safer usdot. So in the past they were using old system, so we had to wait for a couple of years in order to upgrade our protocols. So those kind of things we pass on to our partners and whenever they are ready, we implement those protocols.
Okay.
But we really do not have hands on to their systems.
I gotcha. No, for sure. And then, so what are your guys as members coming to you guys with right now? From a, you know, maybe a vulnerability standpoint or an education standpoint from a cyber perspective on like, hey, this is what we want to see more of from you guys. Right. And because I, you know, I look at it as, you know, that's the first area that you would turn to. Right. Like if, you know, I'm a member of the tia, for example, if there was something that I saw out there, I'm going to turn to the TIA and be like, hey, the only one who's seen this? Or is everybody seeing this?
And then, you know, do you guys have those resources for people where it's like, hey, you know, like, that's why I think like the collaboration of this, like with the NMFTA and the cybersecurity conference, where it's like, now you guys have that kind of streamline, like, hey, you guys, here's some, you know, here's a white paper on this with all of these steps out there.
Sure. So on this cybersecurity side, we just started doing stuff for our members. So we do get feedback from time to time from our members.
Yeah.
One of the example is so we our education department organize such webinars. But recently INI Intermodal Expo concluded in September.
Yeah.
At Long Beach. And Joe Orr, CEO of NMFDA was there. He gave a very nice presentation on cybersecurity, which helped our members. And of course, yes, they want to see more and more. The only thing is that we need to get together with the right people because at our conferences in a host two events a year, one is business meeting in spring, another one is Intermodal Expo, which is in fall.
Yep.
Oftentimes the big executives from the company who takes the decision are in attendance on those events, but not the technical folks. So I think we need to form a committee or task force in order to bring together the technical resources from our members and then we can pass on the information or the recommendations.
I mean, because like, I look at it like this and nobody thinks about this stuff until they're actually in need of it. Right, right. Nobody thinks of, you know, like nobody thinks of it until they need it to step up and save their life and everything else. And I feel like though, taking more of a proactive approach to a lot of this right now, especially with, you know, the advancements in AI and everything else that's out there. Like, I, I feel like it needs to be at the forefront of a lot of business leaders and executives minds on what could possibly happen.
And you know, I know you guys aren't necessarily in the trains or anything like that with your guys as members, but you know, again, I, I look at a lot of that stuff and it's like I, you know, because I, I've interviewed a few other people about, you know, hacking and you know, hacking a truck and everything else that's going on out there and I feel like it's only a matter of time. Right. But you know, one of the, the things that I like, I think my biggest takeaway from an event like this is you having a plan is the best form of defense that's out there. Right? So it's like it's not that reactive state, it's like, hey, we've thought about this, we have a plan in place, we at least know where to go in the event that happens.
And are you guys ever hearing that from, as like a point of concern from your guys as members out there? Is it their data that they're more concerned about from a technical infrastructure standpoint where it's like they're coming and they're more concerned about how do we make sure our data is protected, how do we make sure our customers data is protected as well.
They're always concerned about that and they're leery about sharing their data. So I mean, yes, we do get like time to time basis feedback from our customers or members, member companies that, you know, they always look for suggestions. But again we just started on the cyber security side. So educating ourselves is the key at this point in the era of AI because it's, they're becoming smart.
Yeah.
Scammers becoming smart, the hackings, phishing. So we ourselves at IANA established A process where we conduct the quarterly training for our staff, cybersecurity awareness training and we implemented a policy framework, event based policy framework in order to safeguard our data.
Yeah.
Or the data that we collect. So the data in transit, data at rest, those are secured. The mechanism we currently use today, we have implemented SIM solutions. So as far as the data that we collect and the data we transport to our members, we at the best, we know that's secure. We never had a complaint in the past about like exposing the data.
Yeah.
Or anybody's data.
Absolutely.
To anybody else. So I, I think there is more to it. And like I said, we just started looking into this area and the event like this is really helping us. So in today's sessions, like the big takeaway from the conferences from the White House director and CTA director provided some of the resources that we could use. Cisa.
Yeah.
They published the free tools that we could use to help ourselves, help our members.
Yeah.
So something like that. Or we can partner with nmfda, especially on this front because they are specifically targeting the cybersecurity awareness into transportation industry.
Yeah. And I think a lot of it to me is it's like, you know, it's not necessarily about who's first or who gets the credit. I feel like it's like how do we as the supply chain industry, you know, collectively as a whole put out best practices to protect everyone? Right. Because it's like if there's anything that I've learned from these events is it just takes one vulnerable person that falls into it and then that could affect an entire network at a very high rate. Right. Because they only need access to one person.
So I feel like this is what I love the most about these events and learning more about it because like from my perspective, like man, I'm just like, I'm a freight guy ultimately, you know, like I brokered freight for the entirety of my career and I'm a, and I'm, you know, I've been self employed now and started my company four years ago. But I feel like being in an environment like this from a technical standpoint is going to protect my business at a lot further rate than others because like I've kind of been exposed to this where I'm like, man, this is like step three in my business plan now about like, hey, we got to make sure our data and make sure everything's secure out there because it is only one thing.
And then especially with all of these different organizations that are inside of the supply chain Is, I think collaboration is key with a lot of this, with, you know, with a lot of cyber threats and everything else to put all of this information out there to keep us all safe ultimately. Right. Or at least have at least know that we put our best foot forward in those events.
Right, right. Yeah. No, absolutely. Your point is. Right. And, and even though there are a lot of tools available and you create an awareness campaign through the conference or through the webinars or you know, through the dialogue, you're not going to be able to secure yourself 100% for sure. So. So only what you can do is stay vigilant.
Yep.
Look for the latest and greatest information from various sources like tsa, CISA and like transportation industry, especially NMFDA website.
Yeah.
For their cyber security related stuff. And another point that touched in one of the session is cyber insurance.
Yeah.
And that's really good. I mean I downplayed cyber insurance a couple of years ago, but after hearing great details in a couple of sessions, I feel like no matter what size of organization you have, small, medium, large, you must have cyber insurance.
I agree. And Piyush, that's going to have to be a conversation for another day because this is we're at time and I want to talk about that more. So I'm going to have you back on the show here soon, man. But hey, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for everything. And how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about in or anything that you guys have going on?
So we have a website in remodel.org you have all the information and recently we launched the new website so you'll have all the resources at one place. Cool. And I mean you can feel free to reach out. There is an online inquiry form as well. If you need more information you can fill out the form and somebody will reach out to you. You can feel free to reach out to me and I can get you in touch with somebody if you are looking for a specific information about aina, what IANA does and what are their members.
Okay. Perfect. Piyush, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, absolutely. What is up? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Back to day two of the NMWTA Cybersecurity Conference here. This is the Freight Coach podcast. My name is Chris Jolly and we are back with Mr. Joe Orr. He's already been on the show so we're going to save all the introduction about how he got his start and everything but you know, I First for starters, this is, I said there's a lot here recently, Joe. This is probably my favorite event to attend because I'm actually at a transportation conference that I feel like I don't know anything at, right? And you know, some of the other shows that I go to. The information is great, but like that's what I do in my day to day, right? You know, freight sales, market predictions, all of that stuff. I do that literally every single day.
But when I come to the this in the cybersecurity aspect of the business, I'm like, what is all of this? You know, what is it about this event that you know? Because there's people from all walks of the industry that are here. You know, there's LTL carriers, there's telematics, you know, truck stops here, there's a bunch of different companies that are here. What was kind of the reason behind starting this and really spearheading the cyber security aspect of transportation?
So the biggest thing was as we originally got into digitalization, we started getting a lot of questions about well, what about cybersecurity? What about cybersecurity? And so there was a lot of reach out and said, well, go to here, go to here. But then we realized nobody's doing it. So there was a niche. And so one of the things that we want to do is we want to do give back into the industry. And so we're like, okay, you know, let's see what we can do. And so originally we started a cybersecurity team and no one else was doing asset based cybersecurity. A lot of things on non asset side, enterprise cybersecurity, but nothing really on the asset side. So we started partnering with academia, we started hiring some researchers and we started really looking into it.
And then as we looked further, it's like nobody's doing a conference. Nobody's getting these folks together to talk about best practices. Nobody's getting them in the same room. And so whether you're the smallest carrier, whether you're the SMB, whether you're ltl, whether you're over the road, or whether, you know the biggest names that you see rolling down the road, they don't get together to talk about cybersecurity. I know early on people didn't talk about cybersecurity, which was really interesting. You know, I've been in the industry for a lot of years and the industry is always amazing to me because they do share information, but cyber wasn't one of those things they shared. So we wanted to really get people together to start telling the story about the best practices and we think it's really important.
No, I would agree with that. And I think you said yesterday during your opening remarks as well, like, this is the only cybersecurity conference that's out there in the world. There's one in Europe, but you said that it's, they don't even cover, they cover other things besides cyber. So this is like the first and only dedicated just to cybersecurity out there. And I feel like, you know what kind of surprises me by that statement is how we are so reliant on digital everything and every aspect of our lives. And you know, you see cyber attacks that are happening, it's almost on like a monthly basis now. I would say that. And these aren't small sums that are getting paid out there, right?
So it's like, I mean, the fact that there hasn't been a larger call to action and you know, we saw a representative from the White House speak yesterday and you know, in typical bureaucratic fashion, they're more high level, you know, yeah, supply chain's cool, but you know, this is where we're all at. So it's like, I feel like this is the benefit of being a part of this conference in particular, right, because it's like you are able out there, you're sharing information, you're speaking with some of the largest logos in the industry about their best practices. So you can take that and apply that to your business.
Like I was joking with a couple of guys yesterday, I'm like, I feel like my company is going to be 10 years ahead of everything because I've been to this event now three years in a row and I'm going to have my technical infrastructure built up probably a decade prior than I actually need because of stuff like this. And I'm going to be able to piece that together because I feel like, you know, that is really the competitive advantage to a lot of companies out there. Because, you know, if you just look at the LTL sector, like ultimately, and the same thing in freight brokerage where I work, we're all offering the same thing, like fundamentally when it boils down to it, right, we're all offering the exact same service that's out there, but your internal data, that's where your real value is.
Maybe it's the processes that you've put together and you know, the personal information or the, from your customers and everything else out there. And you wouldn't even think twice about that. Like hey, are my servers actually secure? And I was talking to a guy yesterday who they were like, yeah, we're actually building our second data center now on top of that. And they're a very large provider. So it's like being able to take that information from those conversations and apply it to your business, I think is it's invaluable ultimately.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Plus, we're at a time of transition. You know, a lot of companies in this space, they have customer hosted platforms and they're transitioning to either data centers or they're transitioning to the cloud. And there's a false sense of security when you go to the cloud that, oh, the cloud takes care of cybersecurity. I don't have to worry about it. And so we are looking at best practices. What are some of the things you have to think about for that? Because there's a false sense of security. So we think the timing is also really right to make sure that we are helping customers or helping the supply chain go through that transition or go through that journey.
How do you think? Like, from your seat. And you've been in this industry for a long time. With the more and more that we're becoming digital through customer TMS platforms and tracking and telematics and everything. Do you think that we're getting ahead of this from a cyber perspective at the right time, or is there more that we should be doing out there as an industry?
No, there's more we should do. Yeah, it's a great question. You know, every once in a while we'll, we'll, we have folks that help us with some riding. And there is something that it's like, oh, we're ahead. It's like, no, we can't ever say we're ahead. We're always having to do more. And the fact that we're cyber is not showing up as a top 10 concern from the CEOs of the trucking company still worries me. Yeah, it needs to be a top 10 concern, which makes me, which I know it means we are still not investing enough. It doesn't have enough focus. I think we're, it's getting better. That's why this event is sold out and that's why we're getting the feedback on this event. But it's going to take more, especially an asset.
Nothing's happened yet of major significance on the asset side, but that's the one event that when it does happen, I think will change the mindset. So that's really one of the things we're focused on, let's make sure that doesn't happen or that if it does happen, we're prepared for it.
So you're thinking it's more of, you know, because it hasn't happened at a large scale, it's more of a reaction based event that's going to cause a bunch of companies to change, where it's going to be like, oh, so and so just got hit. We better start looking at our cybersecurity more, you know, in depth. And you know, I like, I use the Las Vegas example yesterday in one of the conversations I was having, like, I think it was like one of, I think it was the MGM or somebody got hit for like $15 million. And that is literally the most secure area. Like the Las Vegas trip, I would argue is probably just as secure as like some of the government buildings in D.C. Right.
Like ultimately, when it boils down to it from there and then especially with their tech capabilities, if they're getting hit, your business is at risk of getting hit. Right. And I think it, you know, because it's like it and especially like the larger the company you get or a company of all size because it just takes one. Right. Like I've heard enough examples out here. It's one phishing email where they can go in and they gain access and then depending on the size of the organization or the target that these criminals go after, they start building up inside and they start taking all of your data or blocking your ability to take all of your data that goes on out there. So it's like you can't think that your business isn't at risk because of anything. Right.
I think that the more and more that customers inside of transportation or the more and More that the FMCSA rules out, you know, ELDs and other iterations of that to make it more technical, your assets are going to be at risk. And then on top of it, last year, at last year's event, I mean I talked with Ben yesterday about this. Trucks are at risk of getting hacked. Right. So it's like for you to sit back and think like, oh, we're fine, that's a fallacy. And it's going, you know, I hope it doesn't get to this event. But it's like it shouldn't take a tragedy to have you actually be like, we should probably start looking into this and like do this right now.
Right? Yeah, I think there's a, a false sense of security, but it was very encouraging I mean, one of, for me, one of the, my favorite sessions from yesterday was Freightliner was Daimler and the, you know, and kudos to them for coming and kudos to them for how they're thinking about cyber. You know, they're building a foundation which they can build upon, so if they do find an issue, they can quickly address it. So that, you know, I'm hoping All the OEMs are doing that. You know, one of the things we're going to do after this is kind of challenge the other OEMs and say, hey, look at this. You know, is this something that you're doing? And you know, just this morning it popped up on LinkedIn. I saw two of the major OEMs signed an agreement for an OS.
Oh, wow.
And so, you know, I'm thinking, oh, you know, how secure is it going to be? You know, who's going to look at that? So I do think it's gaining traction in certain areas, but I think we still have some work to do.
No, I would agree with that. And I interviewed them yesterday as well. And I don't know when these episodes are going to come out, but hearing the foundation that they're building up from it too, because it's not just when it comes down to the OEMs, it's not just their truck, it's the technicians that are going to eventually be servicing them as well and how they can gain access through that. If the technician's laptop isn't just used for diagnostics work and they can work in through that, if they're doing Google searches, even if they're trying to Google the error code, that what they're trying to do on their actual diagnostic laptop, how that can work in through that.
So it's like, you know, again, this is obviously, this isn't a fearmonger style show or anything like that, but these are the things that people need to think about, right? And I was, because, you know, I brought in our, one of our vehicles to get serviced and the person who was checking us in literally plugged in something to our dashboard to start seeing where all the error codes are. And I was, as I was talking to him yesterday, I'm like, damn, that, like our entire vehicle could have been compromised at that point because it is their software updates now that you got to bring your vehicles in for. And you know, he.
And then another conversation I had yesterday, they were talking about, it was actually with Ben about how some of the older units and stuff like that don't have a lot of the upgrades that, you know, some of the newer, you know, trucks and everything that do and how those are almost just as much, if not more at risk than some of the newer ones, because there is really no way to detect it.
Right? Yeah. And a lot of those older trucks, I mean, even if they're not in the U.S. They may, you know, send those down, you know, to Mexico and they utilize them, you know, because they may not qualify or they for the ELD man days. So they may go down south to Mexico. So, you know, those are still at risk. They may run in the US and so those are things I think we really have to look at. And we need the OEM's help. And so part of our responsibility again is to work with the OEMs. And that's one of the things I was excited about yesterday is, you know, a lot of people were like, well, how can we help you? Which is something you don't always hear at a conference is how can we help you?
So I was super excited to hear that.
What is something from this event that, what's like an action plan, do you think, out there talking to the OEMs and everything else. What is something that we can do as an industry to kind of bring this attention forward? Is it coming down from the owner, operator, driver levels? Is it the fleet levels of bringing more and more awareness to a lot of these things? Or is it kind of the, hey, we should, I don't want to ever say stop innovation or anything like that, but is it like, hey, we kind of got to get this fixed or at least have this in check before we move forward? Or is it technology is advancing so much that it's like if you wait five minutes, it's already obsolete at that.
Point, I, I think it's just becoming more cyber aware and ask. Understanding what questions to ask. So become cyber aware, ask the right questions and then also get us involved from an NMFTA perspective. You know, most people in the room share the same technology. I mean, one of the things in the industry is there's a lot of companies that come and go.
Yeah.
But there's also a lot of companies been around for a long time or that a lot of people use. I think because the person from the White House, we had breakfast together and were talking about, you know, so many people use the same companies. And so you said, look to your left, look to your right. How many use the same companies? And the answer is most of us. And so I think that's a really important point. So when you're working with a vendor, you know, ask the question, hey, do you, you know, do you partner with nfta? Are you willing to partner with nfta? We were talking about that, the Rock and Roll hall of Fame I mentioned to somebody. I'm like, hey, would you be willing to let us try to break one of your devices? Yeah, because that's one of the things.
We had a sire truck at defcon. You know, we did remove some equipment because we're, we did not have everyone's permission. Yeah, but give us that permission. Let us see what we can do. We're not all about creating the headlines to say, oh, look at what we did and creating a bunch of fear. We're more about, hey, we did this, you guys need to fix this. And then resolving the issue.
No, it is, it's those actionable insights that are out there. Right. Because I also look at it from an insurance perspective as well here. You know, it's nuclear verdicts are on a rise out there and carriers are, you know, essentially if a driver sneezes, are getting sued at this point. Right. Like I will go as far as saying that because some of the lawsuits that I'm seeing out there, you know, there's a trailer manufacturer that is getting hit for a multi hundred million dollar lawsuit because of the design of the trailer that's been intact for, I don't know, ever, like ever since I've been alive and I'm almost 40. And so it's like, and I look at this as it's only a matter of time, you know, it's only a matter of time.
And the more information that's out there, the better prepared people can be. Maybe, you know, we can lobby more or whatever it takes to kind of get ahead of it. Because, you know, the over overall industry is small business ultimately. Right? And you know, at least on the full truckload side of things, on the brokerage side, you know, 90 plus percent of the industry is small business. And it's like this is that kind of that frontier where, you know, you can go out, build up your American dream, you know, start your company with limited to no education at all, and build something of yourself. But it's also like you need to, you know, create some sort of playbook for you to follow as you're buying that new equipment that's out there that's supposed to make your life easier.
But then in fact, you're not protecting your organization from a cyber perspective and, you know, going out there and having, you know, events like this, or you guys partnering with some of the software companies that are in the industry to make sure, like, hey, is your stuff actually safe? Let's do it. Let's put together a case study. Let's find out if it's not. So we can prevent something from happening in the future.
No, absolutely. I think that's the proper mindset. And we met with a group of CIO CTOs over the summer, and when I asked them about Asset Cyber, the comment was, hey, we don't think about it, but that's what we want you guys to do. We want you to think about it, you test it, you work with the OEMs. If you need our help, let us know, and then let us know what happens. And we're perfectly fine with that. The response, that makes me a little bit nervous. And it was actually the first week I started leading the Cyber team at NMWTA, I was talking to somebody about asset side cybersecurity, and they said, I don't worry about that. If something happens, let's say, you know, they take over my truck and, you know, it runs into a building, what have you.
They're like, oh, that's on the oem. That's not on me. And I'm thinking, oh, I. I don't know if that's true. But that's also your logo that's all over the.
So your driver that could potentially get killed.
Right.
Situation.
Yeah. So I'm like, you know, I, I just think that there's a, again, a bit of a false sense of security.
No, I would agree with that. And I think that, you know, it is one of those people think that they're either too small or too insignificant, that it couldn't be them. Right. And. And I think it can ultimately where it's, you know, the more and more digital we get, the more and more that this agenda is pushed out there for automation and innovation and everything else, the more and more of that these criminals are going to look for a way to capitalize on this. Right. Like I say this a lot. The thing about criminals, you guys, I don't care about the law.
Right.
Like, they're out there. They care about how they can go in there and ruin people's lives. And I think that, you know, it needs to be on the front of your mind. And this is why an event like this is so crucial for people to come out and attend. And you know this is a yearly thing. And, you know, I know you guys have joined my show throughout the year, numerous times to talk about this, and I love this event the most because this is kind of like that frontier of this industry that I truly feel like I know nothing about and I learned so much about. But, Joe, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for taking a couple of minutes to join me this morning.
It means a lot. And I can tell you that no matter how many times you go, no matter who you are in the room, everybody learns something.
Yeah. I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I learned something literally every second of these things. So, Joe, thank you so much for joining me.
I appreciate it.