1054. #TFCP - Is Your Routing Guide Accurate?

So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Monday, everybody. We are going to jump right in. I have a very special guest for you guys here today. And I think it's ironic because like the product that they were known for, like my dad actually forced me to learn how to do this at a very young age sitting in the cab of his truck. And we're going to talk about mileage today. We're going to talk about routing. We're going to be talking about all of that stuff. So I got my man Mark, Luke and Bill on the show here this morning. Mark, what is going on? How are you, dude?

My uncles were all drivers easygo delivering golf carts all across the US and raised by my grandparents, so they had to work. We couldn't afford daycare or anything like that. And times where they didn't just throw me outside and say, come home when it gets dark, they're like, dude, go hop in the back of the cab with the uncles and go see the world. Which, you know, then, like, I think back to, like, when I was nine and sort of pissed off that I had to go, right? Like, thinking about, like, sitting in the truck for 10 hours, nothing to do, you know what I mean? Sitting in the back of a sleeper cab. And now that I've gotten a lot older, it's such an invaluable experience that I got to learn the industry from the inside out.

All the things that I heard from them, just all the different cities and experiences that I got to do is you can't really provide that to kids nowadays, right? It's an experience that I'm super grateful for, and that's really kind of how I got my start into it. Right after college, I jumped back in. Started as a brokerage, started in the brokerage world, freight, quote, doing the whole pound, the phones. What do you got to ship? What do you got to ship? Let me quote, you know, which for me, man, that was kind of a big turn off. Like, in college, I sold cars, which I love. This was back in 2006 or seven.

So really before the Internet was as prevalent as it is now with, like, price shopping and, like, customers coming in knowing exactly, you know, MSRP and what they want to pay. And, you know, you have this other one in Nebraska, blah, blah. So it was really more about like they come in and it's like, why are you here? Right? Like, are you family growing? You know, talk to me about what you're trying to accomplish. This really consultative, solution based sales methodology. And so after kind of the initial start in the brokerage world where it was very much like, pound the phones. 150 calls a day, doesn't matter. Get a transaction. Wasn't really jiving with me. And, yeah, and so I was like, dude, I'm just going to try something else.

And so instead of customer answer the phone, hey, what do you have to ship? It's like, why are you talking to me right now? What problems are you facing? Let's talk a little bit about your operational process. What could you do better? What do you want to do better? And how can I insert myself to help there? Once I took that approach, man, it was great. Book of business flew through the roof. They're like, hey, we've got this tech product. We really want to take that sales style over and talk to a higher level of individual about these solution concepts, really how to not just sell on a price perspective, but more from an operational and total cost savings, soft and hard.

And so that had been in the tech side of the industry for the last 15 years, doing tms, doing operational software, really anything that could help with process improvement, which has been a lot of fun, dude.

Because, you know, ultimately, you know, I never, like, when I started doing this show, you know, four and over four years ago, I wanted to create a platform that people could just like, tune into and then learn about multiple sides of it instead of like, just talking about freight brokerage, because that's primarily where all of my experiences in the industry, but I'm like, man, there's so many other sides of it. And I always go back and think to my dad, you know, driving in his truck, I'm like, it's not that he didn't want to improve his business because he was an owner operator, but could he realistically shut his operation down to go to a conference? Absolutely.

Not as most business owners can't, because, you know, not only can you not take the time capital away, but that also the money it takes to go out to some of these things. So it's like, I started this as, like, a resource that people could come in and listen to and get some value for their business and then bounce out and not feel like they're getting sold to, right? And that's why it's like, I don't have a paywall on any of this stuff. I'm very fortunate to have advertisers for this show. So it's like, I'm able to do that at the level that I am because of it, because I think, like, ultimately, people need to know that they're getting the right information.

And it's, you know, we're in a day and age now where it's like, how do you know if it's real or not, right? So it's like, when I come out here and I interview people, and it's like I'm talking to people, like, no, man, I sat in the seat. This is how I built my book of business, you know? And, dude, you're working from, like, you for who you're with now, man. You're with one of the legacy brands in the industry. I mean, Rand McNally, I know that, you know, you're a part of it, but, like, dude, I remember sitting there and my dad made me. Granted, this was, you know, in the mid nineties and stuff like that, so, like, the Internet wasn't really a thing back in rural Wisconsin, but, you know, did.

I had the rand McNally nap, and he taught me how to read the grid system, how it would, like, you know, you had the state, and then it would go down to, like, the city of Chicago, and then it would grid out on there and what roads to take. So it's like, man, it's just wild that, you know, I said the same thing when I had a great dane come on the show, the trailer manufacturer, when I had. It's like, that's the only trailer my dad ever had, right? So it's like, I kind of get these little moments of, like, my youth coming out and some of the companies that I get to talk to on this show now. So it's like, man, I just love that aspect of it.

And he's, you know, hands on the wheel with a map spread across the wheel, right? And he's sitting in there, trying to navigate through these. These intricacies of downtown New York City, cussing every other word, right? Pissed off, right? Throwing things, can't find out where he's going. Sees a guy almost down the side of the road, says, hey, I'm trying to get here, you know? And the guy's like, hey, I'll take you there for $10, you know? And so uncle pays him. Guy hops on the side of the truck, hanging on. We take two turns, and we're there, right? It was the greatest thing ever. And then who knows where that guy went? Just scattered off into the night. But. But, yeah, just. It's really interesting.

And, yeah, when I got the opportunity to join Rand McNally in Mile maker, it was like, it's a. My exit strategy in life. Later on, wife and I, Rv, couple dogs traveling the world is to consult. I want to get as deep in this industry as possible. I've been in the TMS space, order, execution, operational efficiencies. And so I'm looking at all these different parts of the supply chain, and especially when we're in a time where the industry is kind of in a headwind right now. People are looking for additional cost savings wherever they can. We have to look at, like, not the overall supply chain, but individual parts and segments of it, right? One thing that people think they take for granted, I think mileage and routing, such a small part of it, but can make such a big impact, right?

Truck goes down an unpaved road, blows a tire, late delivery, maintenance cost, right. Roads close down, weight restriction. They pull in, maybe they're 30 miles down the road, they got to make a U turn. Additional mileage they're not getting paid for, late delivery. Mad customer, big impact to their business, you know?

Cause like I move a, you know, I move over dimensional freight, right? Like you can't take a lot of freight out there at certain hours, right. It's a lot more intricate than that blanket statement. But you know, ultimately, if you're going to be in the transportation industry, you need to. And then especially on the asset side, and I would argue brokers need to see this as well. Cause, you know, again, the actual miles versus truck miles are two very different numbers. And then, you know, there's a lot of shippers out there who will use their own mileage guide or their own routing guide for that stuff too. So it's like, oh, you go on Google Maps and it shows 1100 miles, for example, and then you got your fuel surcharge in there at that.

And then the customer bills you out at, you know, 1080 because their mileage were different. Now all of a sudden you have billionaires and everything else that kind of go along with that.

Make sure these trucks aren't taking routes that can cause damage, cause additional time, make late deliveries, you know, decrease customer satisfaction. It's these small parts of supply chain that people take for granted that are actually big impacts.

That's where you got to check in that, you know, and then like, hey man, there's a loves in the area or whatever truck stop, you know, letting them know and kind of going above and beyond. And, you know, for me it's more long like, you know, you brought up long term, you brought up relationships, you brought up the fact that the market's going to shift. Everybody's going to remember exactly what you don't think that they're going to remember right now. And I'm pointing this a lot of brokers about the way that they may or may not treat certain individuals out there that will be remembered. Right. And ultimately, you know, inside of my organization because that's all I can really talk for.

I want to set up a high standard right away right where they know if there's an issue they can reach out to us, customers, carriers alike. We're going to take care of it, we're going to respond, we're going to help, most importantly. And we're not just going to be like, well, you know, figure it out style situation, because, you know, time costs money. You know, time is the only thing that we can never get more of if you're, you know, it's like if you want to make more money, make more sales calls, you know, stuff like that. But, like, you can't get time back. And then, you know, that goes up, and then there's fines associated with that. They take a wrong turn down there.

No trucks, whatever, you get fines, you get this, you get that, and it's like you want to have, you know, and, like, with. I know e logs have been a thing for a long time, but every minute of the driver's day is accounted for, right? So it's like, how do we maximize all of that? How do we maximize their time? Because as the old man always said, if my wheels ain't turning, I ain't earning. So it's like we want to make sure that people are efficiently getting in and out of facilities, you know, avoiding road closures, non truck routes, everything else.

It's a collaborative event where brokers, carriers, tech partners, they get together and they say, how can we do this better, right? Let's ask questions. Let's learn about each other's businesses. Let's figure out better ways to work together. So it's Dallas. Quick shout out to the broker carrier summit and all your listeners if you're going. It's a great event. It's in Dallas and Fort Worth, starts the 23rd and goes to the 25th. But are you going? Is that.

Some people call it brutally honest, but, you know, it's like, it's easy to sit in certain conversations when you're benefiting. You know, it's very challenging to go and sit in that exact same setting, say, if the market was flipped and, you know, back to what you were saying earlier, about $6 a mile, I'm going to really be interested to see the kind of the openness to a conversation when the market has officially flipped because it's easy to sit there and preach about a lot of things when you're benefiting. It's very challenging to sit in that exact same seat when you're the one who's on the opposite side of that conversation. But these are conversations that need to be continued to be had because, you know, and I call this out a lot, too, on the show as well.

Mark, on, you know, if you ever pay attention to any of the data out there, like the fleet's top ten reasons are for the industry. Like what a fleet thinks is wrong is fine with the industry, and then what a driver is, and they're never the same, you know, so it's one of those things, like, ultimately, you know, the most drivers, you know, I've met a lot of drivers in my life. I've only really been around truck drivers primarily. Most drivers, they're not asking for a red carpet parade. They're just asking to be treated with respect and like, and that their business actually means something. Right? So it's like, I always go down with it. Where brokers, most of most brokers problems are self inflicted. It's not the driver, man. It's you not doing your job. That's why a lot of those problems arise.

But who has to pay for that? More times than not, it's the driver that has to pay for it because you want to avoid it.

Especially between carriers and brokers, right? Most of the time they'll say, yeah, or you'll figure out a common ground or solution, or they'll say, hey, don't even worry about it, right? Otherwise, letting things fester could affect the end customer relationship and potentially lose out on a lot of business. So it's promoting that transparency between the two.

That ultimately I personally, again, I can only do what I can do and I can, I look at it more mark of like, how am I going to sleep at night? You know, am I going to sleep at night knowing that I burnt somebody? Or am I going to sleep well at night knowing like, hey, you know what, I might have made a mistake, but I let somebody know in ample amount of time, or I, you know, I gave them what, you know, like, again, because you're, things happen, you know, and the only thing that you'll never recover from, at least in my opinion, in business, from a relationship, is if they find out that you lied to them. You know, that's what you, it's not the fact that something happened, it's the fact that you lied about something.

That's what I, at least in my opinion, that is ultimately the biggest deterrent out there, you know? So it's like, I know, you know, I see this post a lot on social media where they're like, I don't understand why brokers post, you know, a load going to the wrong city. And I'm like, I get it because I do. I was taught that way, you want to go big city to big city, recognizable. You know, it's pretty easy. But I also look at it as, you know, as a broker. Instead of saying, hey, a load goes to Dallas, when it actually goes down to Waco or whatever that is, just let them know on the front end, hey, this loads posted to here, but it actually goes here. Are you okay with that? Like, knowing that's an issue?

That would be like, that's the first thing I would say in those situations. Again, they're not going to be upset that you told them that you posted it that way, but they will be upset after they accept a load. You send the rate con over and they're like, wait a second. This says Waco. You told me it was going to Dallas. The posting said Dallas. You're already, you know, you're already starting off on the wrong foot.

They know how much money they're getting made. So the Department of Transportation, their first call when they have a road closure or any update to Ram McNally, we have a whole GIS team constantly coding, updating maps. So it's. And real time traffic and weather and all kinds of crazy stuff like that. That. That kind of promotes that transparency angle up front, right? So you know what you're getting into before you take the load. You know exactly how long it's going to take where it's going, what way to take. So that way, again, if you need to see your family or you can plan your hours of service or plan your money, that whole transparency aspect of it, and it does get that granular, which why I was so excited to join.

People think about operation execution and visibility and all these different areas that, yeah, I mean, there's some level of that, but I think there's other parts of the supply chain that are being overlooked. And I think it's a big mission. I think if we can get everybody on the same standard system, it's going to promote transparency, it's going to promote better partnerships. We've got a super easy, simple, reliable APIs. We're trying to integrate with every tech partner out there. Imagine a procurement platform. That, for instance, might be a call that I make. I don't know what they're doing for mileage right now, but worth the conversation, right? If you're getting a rate point to point, right? I'm sure you want a rate that has accurate miles. It has driving miles on it.

When you're talking to a carrier, you know exactly what the whole city to city thing, right? It's not Atlanta to Dallas. What if it's, you know, Atlanta to Waco? That's two different subsets of miles, two different costs, two different routes.

What do, like, what's some of the biggest advancements you guys have seen? Like, how do you get all of that information out there? Are you guys connected with like the state levels, like, you know, the Arizona Department of Transportation and anytime they make an update, then all of a sudden it's updated on your guys's platform. Kind of walk us through on that.

And I'm looking and I've got 5 sq mi of facility, and it's like, well, where the hell do I go? The idea is to take that extra step so that driver doesn't spend 20 minutes trying to figure out where he wants to go, picking up the phone, where am I at? Where am I going? What am I doing? So, yeah, we have dedicated individuals updating our platform. We have full point to point. Previously, it was really interesting when I joined. So if you think about Rand McNally, old Atlas, right, they have this platform called guide 19, which a lot of the shippers that used was essentially just highway networks. Point to point, right? That's what they used to put out rfps. That's what they used to pay carriers, which a lot of times was really short.

So then we had this segment of the market that we're raising their hand saying, hey, I hate this, right? Every time I'm a hollow load for the shipper, I'm getting paid 50, 60, 80 miles short, and I'm having to cut that back into the driver just to make sure I don't lose drivers, because we're not, it's not like you can go out and just get 20 more drivers, right? Driver retention is a really big thing now. So we said, hey, we've got to fix this. So 2023, we put out guide 20. It's a web platform.

It's got a terrific API that integrates into every ERP or TMS system out there, but it's got true point to point, so shippers don't have to use that highway network to or that point to point mileage routing guide 19, as previous, to put out these rfps, they're doing more accurate data, which, again, are increasing relationships, more accurate information for carriers. But they just put this out in 2023 and they're like, we have this brand. How can we go out and really penetrate this new market and represent to carriers and brokers that, hey, we're not that short mile provider anymore, right? We're not just giving shippers point to short pay you. We're actually developing and innovating and growing our technology to make sure that we meet your guys's needs as well as the shipper side. So that's why they brought me on.

And I love the tech, I love everything that they're doing with it. But the best part is they're continuing to innovate. So back to your point about making sure the roads are updated, and if there's information that's out there, we've got a team dedicated, go out and find it and make sure that our platform represents it.

And dude, that's where I'm like, excited about technology from there to where it can get people more and more, you know, to like, uncover other cost savings that are out there or else, you know, maybe there's a new truck stop that's opening up in a certain city and now you're going to be able to get even closer to your, you know, your set receiver and all that, so.

So customers, you tell us what you want us to build and that will influence our roadmap, which that takes that, you know, that startup collaborative mindset of an older company with the new leadership that we have right now to say, hey, we're not just going to be same status quo that were, right? We're going to talk to everybody, we're going to figure out what you need and we're going to build something that's going to be a long term partner for many years to come.

As costs continue to rise for carriers, this is something that we need to push more and more out there to, you know, you might not have, you know, the best loan terms on your truck, but where else can we try and make up some of those cost savings on the back end and your Apple actual operation? So how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you guys got going on?