We'll mess around a little bit here. Let me see if this is. Yeah, whatever. Perfect. And. All right, we're gonna start. Three, two, one. What is up? Ladies and gentlemen, we are back. We are not live. This is the Freight coach podcast. And, you know, the scheduling of when this conference ends tomorrow and when I normally go live just didn't line up. And, you know, you got flights and everything else. And this is the real world, ladies and gentlemen. This is why you guys tune in to this show. And. But we aren't missing, though. We're here. You guys recognize this guy with me? He's been on the show before. I, you know, we haven't connected in a while. And it was like, when I saw that you were here, I'm like, I got to sit down with Chad. We got to shoot this shit.
We didn't even really have an agenda on this. We are, like, completely shooting from the hip on, just kind of catching up on everything, man. So, dude, what's been. What's been going on?
Just life in general. Life. Life in general has been going on. We're like, AVrl is doing so good. We're growing, trying to be responsible, but I think, like, our biggest focus is change management and transportation. So, like, if we sell someone technology, it's going to be successful.
Yeah, I'm. Dude. And I think that, you know, what I've always liked about what you're doing with AVrl, especially, is you're everywhere, like, your boots on the ground more than most people, you know? Like, it's funny because I'm sure everybody who sees you post, like, oh, on this flight, they're always like, oh, you're foolish. No, man. You're literally out there on the road. You're in front of people. And, you know, one thing that I always stuck out, and especially this was like, kind of back to one of our first conversations, is you're like, I'm not going to pay to market. I'm just going to market it myself. And that's been a really effective strategy. Like, I think you're out there, you're utilizing social media, you're utilizing multiple different methods to get out there that are not your conventional ways of marketing your company.
So how has that kind of, like, worked out for you overall when you're. When you're grown and scaling a company, when everybody's got an opinion about how you should be marketing?
That's a good question. I think as much as we don't market, that is our marketing strategy. Right. And one of the things that we've really seen in an industry that's so small like transportation, is that your customers are your best marketing tool in general. Right. And so if we double down and we vested all of the money that we would spend in marketing towards our customer, towards technology, towards making sure that services up and running, they will share the love back. And that has been our entire strategy of go to market. It is also the whole reason why we work with most of the largest brokers and a lot of large carriers is that we focus our attention there, not externally.
Yeah. And I think that, you know, from my perspective, especially, man, like, for you to go out there and to have your customers do the marketing for you, I mean, that's like business 101, right? Like ultimately it is, you know, and if anybody out there is talking to any, like, entrepreneur, you know, like, I follow Alex Hermosi a lot and he talks about that a lot. He's like, get, you know, get a couple of core customers and then have your customers market for you. And I think that's a big oversight by a lot of companies that are out there, is they think that if I buy this ad on this social media platform, it's going to lead to riches. And then they neglect their customers, they neglect the quality of their product.
And then it's like, you have a great marketing tool, but you don't have a quality product that backs it up and then nobody buys into it, you know, and I think that's one thing that freight tech has kind of been up against here, is there's been a lot of bells and whistles thrown out there, a lot of promises, and there hasn't been a lot of substance behind it. And I think that's why there's so much kind of hesitancy upfront about technology, is you have a lot of business owners who are like, I invested $100,000 in an ornament that never lit up and now here we are. So why you, why do that?
It's super interesting. I think that investing in an ornament that never lit up, that's a loaded statement and actually brings up interesting question. Like, I think that a lot of transportation and logistics companies have bought technology and it failed. And I don't want to say that it's the technology's fault. It might be change management, it might be like internal adoption, et cetera. What we decided to do probably about a year ago is we started investing in data analysts that work on our team. We're hiring a vp of pricing out of the industry right now to come in and help our customers not tell them how to price freight, but how to think about it and what they should be doing from a fundamental perspective on that.
What you're going to see more and more from us is we're going to continue to stay like onto the radar, all of our investments going to go into consulting that we're not going to charge for. But how do you best in class at using our technology, best in class at pricing in the industry, scheduling appointments. If you're going to automate that, like, you better know what the hell you're doing, otherwise it creates massive problems for everyone. And so we're just going to take a way different approach probably than any other technology vendor has done.
Do you think that there's been, you know, it's not necessarily the technology that's bad that's out there, but it's the implementation. There's no strategy behind it. It's like plug it in, here's your API, you're done. And then there's no real substance behind that. The technology might be phenomenal, right? It might function the way exactly how it was designed, but there's no rollout, there's no implementation, there's no real basis of like here's how you actually do it. It's that continual training of like, down to the, like you brought up pricing, for example. You're not going to tell anybody how to price, but you're going to teach them pricing strategy essentially, right?
Yeah, exactly. I think the one thing that we noticed is when were starting to work deeper into mid market, was that there are companies that were really great at implementing technology and companies that were really bad and no one really like, fits in the middle, but it has to do with like, how strong is your leadership team? Are they going to like force adoption internally? Are they going to like wing it and hope it works? And I think that the strongest leaders have better adoption of technology and other processes internally. But one of the things that we want to make sure is that even if there's weak leadership, how do we still be successful in that? Because if we aren't marketing and we're not advertising, we're not out there.
The only way for this to fail is for us to start deploying failed technology over and over again. If we keep batting 1000, close to 1000, like that keeps this whole thing, this whole engine moving.
Dude, I love what you said there about like, it doesn't matter if there's weak leadership inside of somebody's organization, right? That's not your problem. That's the company's problem. But your product better not fail your customer at that point. Right. And again, that's a masterclass in how you need to approach everything with your company. Right. With anybody's company out there is. It doesn't matter. It's just like, as a broker, it doesn't matter to me if my customer doesn't know certain things, it's my job to make sure that they're taken care of. Right. Like, they're not. And I was just talking about this. They've told me this now recently, more than I've ever heard in my life. They're like, listen, we're a manufacturer. We're not a transportation company. That's your job. That's why we hire you.
So it's like, again, you need to bring that stuff up there. Like, when it comes down to the transportation of my customers product, it is on me to make sure they don't need to think about that stuff.
Yeah. I mean, if you're going to sell software, you're going to sell a service. Your customers problem is in fact your problem.
Yeah.
And, and you can either sit there and blame it on the customer, which is what a lot of people end up doing, or you can get your hands dirty and dive in and help them solution out of it. There's obviously, like, you could exploit that and charge for it and do all of this thing. I don't want to be that guy. I want to be the guy that came in and, like, actually brought change. And we feel that maybe we should offer the consulting for free. Yeah. I don't know.
No, and I think that's, that's just what, you know, you're going above and beyond. Right. Because it's like, it's very easy to get caught up in, you know, and I'm guilty of this in my business at times, too, Chad, where it's like, hey, we're only supposed to be doing this, like all of that other stuff. That's not what you're paying me for. But, you know, you kind of learn as you're in the trenches, like, no, actually, that is my job to make sure that maybe it's not something that I can do, but I know Chad. Chad can do that. Right. I'm going to put him in contact with Chad and everything else. So it's like that ecosystem that you need to build up.
Like, if your core service is software or your core service is freight and your customer has an issue with something else, you better know how to work through that, or you better figure it out for them. Because trust me, there is somebody else out there. There is another company out there that will do it, and they will take your business at that point, because everything, every single one of your customers problems is your problem. You just need to figure it out for them. Again, it might not be you doing it, but you better find somebody who can solve that for them.
I actually had this really weird thing that happened. Sean McLeod at Axel called me one day.
I was like, love, Sean.
Yeah. And we've worked together for a really long time. But he called me, and he was like, hey, because of what you write on LinkedIn and Ryan Schreiber writes on LinkedIn, I want to look at a company. I'm not going to name their name, but as a competitor of mine. And he's like, and I was like, that's cool. You should look at. It is my job to out innovate them. Is my job to continue to grow and challenge my team and us get better, or you should leave us. Like, you shouldn't just stay with me because we've worked together for a long time and we're friends. Like, is my job to out innovate everybody else. This is my job.
How do you separate that then, Chad? How do you separate that relationship that you have on a personal level with your. Your product? Right. Because I think that's another challenge that a lot of people kind of find themselves in, where they're, like, they almost. And I'm not even talking, like, the customer. I might feel obligated to work with you because we're friends. You know what I mean? As opposed to, you should be, you know, coming to me and saying, like, no, dude, if you find something better, that's not. That's not going to affect us. So how have you kind of worked through that?
You actually care?
Yeah.
Like, you know, like, you know, you care because it's. It's much bigger than, like, a relationship that I have with a customer. It's about, hey, we're supposed to be doing what's best for the customer. That is literally our job. Even if I have to fight a customer on something, I'm doing it because I, like, literally believe that they are about to go down a path that they do not want to go down. They obviously get to make the decision. At the end of the day, I do think that a lot of my customers stay my customers because I'm willing to call them and being like, hey, you're fucking this up.
Stop.
And I don't think that there's a lot of technology companies that are doing that. They're not like, literally getting in the mud and being like, the path that we're going down is awful. We need to stop and go down this other path. And at that point, like, it's the customers responsibility to choose the best path for them. But I don't think that enough technology leaders are, like, getting involved in that.
Yeah, I think that, you know, again, that's one of the, that's another challenge that when you're out there and you're trying to build this up and what you're up against is, you know, ultimately what's best for your customer isn't going to be what's best for you. And it is really separating that out there. And, you know, I think long term, yeah, it sucks, right? Like, it's going to hit your p and L. You know, we're talking this again, this is the real world. It's going to affect your business. It's going to affect your money. You might have to lay somebody off. Hypothetical examples here that come, you know, but, like, you need to know that long term, you are doing, like, you will be rewarded for that, right?
Because they will, no matter what, they might come back to you and be like, dude, I'm coming back because you led me in the right way. Yeah, it wasn't the best decision, but that was my decision to make, not yours. And you still told me, go and do it because that's what's going to best for you. You put me first. I want to come back and work with you. And again, it's that positive word of mouth back to what you were originally talking about, man, your customers are always going to be your best sales reps. You could have the best sales reps in the world, which you do, man. You have some killers on your team, but that is never gonna sway a business owner. As opposed to his buddy coming and saying, dude, you gotta work with Chad.
This is what he's done for my business. That will always outsell the best sales.
Rep out there 100%. I think I just agree.
Like, it's like, yes, but, you know, it's so easy to sit back and think that there's a better way, right? Or there's a different way that you need to be approaching some of these things. And ultimately, you need to put your customer first. And you know what? Your customer might not always be right, but you need to make them make their own decisions. Right. Because otherwise they're going to hold that against you. They're going to harbor that against you where it's like, you got to state your facts, plead your case, do everything in your power, but ultimately, you got to let them make their own bed. Right. And then you need to be there in the event that they need you. Right.
Like, I feel like customer service is not just when you're paying me, you know, if you're coming to me, whether you're a user of mine or, you know, whatever that is, if you come to me, I'm going to answer that question or I'm going to get somebody who can answer that question for you, because I feel like customer service isn't just a one way street. You know, whether you're working with me or not doesn't matter. I'm going to give you my unbiased opinion on that because I just want to help you out ultimately, at the end of the day. And you'll remember that and you'll never get punished for those things.
Yeah, I think, you know, to your point, we have had maybe like four customers that left us and came back. Like, literally immediately come back. Go try a competitor, come back immediately. And if were not open and we're not willing to communicate, I don't think that they would come back. It's, that's a mind mess to be like, hey, we are not going to work with you, and then be like, oh, we messed up. Like, you have to give them the opening to do that, too.
Yeah. How do you still, how have you handled that transaction? Right, when somebody leaves and it's like, you know, because sometimes people might not leave on the best of terms, right? Like, no matter what shit might get said, you know, and you take it personally because that's your baby, right? Like, as a business owner, as a founder, CEO, that's your baby. You take that shit personally. So how do you separate that emotion if things are set out there in the separation when they come back?
I think seven years ago, when I started AvRl, I probably would have been super emotional. At this point, we literally thank them and say, hey, if there's ever opportunity for you to work with us again, we would love it. Like, we would love the opportunity. And I think we have to fully step, like, step, like, put our ego aside and get out of our own way. I'm reading a book right now called ego is the enemy, and it really talks about entrepreneurs. And the only way for an entrepreneur to actually do entrepreneurial things is to have a big ego. Otherwise, you can't get there. However, the downfall to entrepreneurship is that you end up getting a massive ego, which could tank your company in general.
And so, literally, knowing when we should use ego when we shouldn't is, I think, something that everyone needs to practice.
I need to get that book and read that one. But, you know, it's true, though, man. Like, dude, you got to have a fucking massive chip on your shoulder if you're going to go out there and take the literal hardest path in the real world to build something, you know, so hard. And that's exactly it, right? And it's, I think the hardest thing about it is it's the. All the conversations you have with yourself that you don't talk about. You know, that's the hardest part to me. And it's when you're dealing with the external pressures of learning, right? Because to grow, it's not easy, right? And from a. From a physical sense, but also a mental sense as well, right? Because, like, you're going to have face situations where, you know what?
You might get suede or, you know, you might have an invoice that's unpaid, that's now aging, that you need that capital or else you can't make payroll. And those are those real things that happen behind the scenes that not a lot of people talk about. And your ego is what fucking gets in the way most times. And, you know, and it's like, that's why I'm very fortunate to have a really solid attorney, a really solid accountant who really fucking keeps a lot of that stuff in line for me, where I'll call them, and they're like, my attorney, for example. I'll call him about certain things, and he's like, dude, it'll cost you way more. He's like, I will bill you. He's like, as your friend, as your attorney, I will bill you way more than what this costs, you know?
And I'm like, all right, cool. He's like, walk away. Learn, pivot. This is what you do now. You got to protect yourself. Maybe you should have a contract. Maybe you should do this. But again, like. And sometimes it's your ego in those moments that would derail you entirely because you want to start going scorched earth on some people, right? Because, again, you take this personally. This is how I feed my family. This is how you feed your family. Like, this is our everything, right? So it's like, kind of getting over those things. I love what you said there about seven years ago and how you would have. How you would have reacted and how you do it now. And that only comes through that experience, right? You don't shy away when things go wrong. Yeah, it sucks, but you also learned.
You adapt, and now you know what not to do. And I think ultimately, for me, that's, like, the biggest value add out there in business and life is, you know, like, that's the thing I love the most about getting older, is I know a lot more of what not to do now. And how I would react at 20 is nothing like how I would react at 30, and definitely nothing how I react now as I'm almost 40, you know? So it's like, it's fucking crazy, the iterations that you go through. But again, it's going through real world experiences and making those really tough decisions, being wrong and fucking everything up, you know, that's the only way that you're gonna get better.
One of the things has been the hardest for me to learn is the balance of the CEO role. So, like, if something bad were to happen at AvRl, I have to take that, bury that shit deep down in and then go about my day and pump my team up as if nothing ever happened. And I think that's why a lot of people say that entrepreneurship is so isolating. There's no way that, like, I have an amazing spouse. She's super supportive, but she doesn't know what it's like to lose a customer and then go on stage and, like, pretend like you are have had the greatest day of your fucking life, you know? Like, that's a really difficult challenge.
Yeah, dude, I'm right there with you, man. My wife is. She's a rock star when it comes down to it, but, you know, it's the same thing, man. Like, when you go out there and every single day, like, your world is on fire around you and you got to go out there, keep a smile on your face, keep everybody happy, but mainly keep yourself happy and keep yourself going. Going. What's probably been the hardest thing? You know, if you look, and I know that might be hard to answer that, but, like, what's been one of those defining moments that you didn't think you were going to survive, and now you're looking back, you're like, fuck, I am so glad I went through that.
Probably funding Avrl has was the hardest thing. You know, when we. I was working, I quit my job, and my wife was like, look, you can. You can do AvRl for a year. She's like, I'll give you a year. Go try it. And I think it's important to put like dates and timelines on things. Otherwise, like, you can't do it. And went out and fundraise. I probably talked like 300 VC's, everyone's like, no, no. And it was like, I think one year and eight days and we closed our funding round. And like, I think I just remember being at a point maybe like nine months in where I'm like, we have talked to every single vc that I can imagine to think about and no one will give us money.
And then what ended up happening when were at that defeatist moment, were like, well, then let's try and do it without venture capital moment. We started focusing on the business, then all of a sudden it's easy to raise money, right? Because then your business is taking off. And I remember going from like literally almost like $0 in monthly revenue to like $50,000 in monthly revenue over that short period of time, from the time that we like, gave up fundraising and actually fundraise. And I think that like, we sold what are called safes, which are like the hardest investment to get. My CTO and I still own 100% of AVRl even though we have raised like venture capital money. And it was because we started focusing on the business.
And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs get in this, like headspace where they're like, oh, we're gonna like build this to sell or we're gonna do this and like this. Like, you want to be successful at business, focus on the fucking business. It's like, that's been the hardest thing to learn.
How so, dude, how do you go about to raise funding? Right? Because I think that's another thing too, where, you know, a lot of people, they might have this idea, they might have a, like, they think like, oh, I'll just go out and raise capital. How do you do that? Do you just cold call of a firm and just be like, hey, can we talk? This is what I'm thinking.
I think you have to. I mean, that's what I had to do because I didn't have any contacts. I had never raised money before. I'd never started like a real company before. And we would literally just dial for dollars, you know, and like bang on email to try and get meetings. But when you actually get in front of VC's, you want to run a rush process. Like, you want to group them together and be like, hey, we're going to close this round by x date. You want to rush it, just like you would try and do like a sale, right? But it's like, a very interesting process that a lot of people can learn. It's like something that you could definitely learn how to do, but it is very hard if you don't have a network, for sure.
So how are you going out there? Are you flying? Are you, like, this is. Everything's going on Chad's personal credit card to get out there and get in front of people, and you're pre funding everything. You're going into debt in the event that you get funding. So after you get funding, how do you. How do you deploy that capital? Like, what do you make? Like, what's your first decision when you know that money gets in your bank account? Where do you go from there?
I was, like, 25, and so I did what any 25 year old would do with, like, two and a half million dollars, and we fucking spend it all, you know? Like, yeah, the fundraising is equally as bad as it is good, because what ends up happening is you start to, like, loosen it up. You're like, hey, we need to bring on the internal legal. We need to bring on, like, this sales, or we need to hire all these customer service people, because what happens if we land, like, ten customers? And so you start spending this money on artificial items that don't exist, but you're like, what if? You know, and that's. That's a massive negative thing about raising.
It's like, if you bootstrap your company or you're paying for something out of your cash flow, you're, like, so tight in how you spend money, right? You're like, oh, my gosh. This is, like, a massive investment that I'm going to have to make. A lot of people who go out and raise money don't do that. And you look at, like, not to, like, slam, like a convoy, but, like, raising a billion dollars to start a freight brokerage. Insane.
It's. Dude, I mean, that's a really good point, right? Like, because I've always gone back and forth about, should I raise capital? Should I not? And, you know, get investors or whatever that looks like. And, you know, if you would have asked me this four years ago, I would have not known how to properly deploy it. The fact that a bootstrap over these last four years, I feel with 100% confidence, if somebody gave me $10 million today, I'm going to turn that into 100 million, because I know how to, you know, not rob Peter to pay Paul, but I know how to take a penny and turn it into $10. Yeah, you know, it's stretching that out it's getting very resourceful about it, you know, because it's like, you know, when you're.
When you're going out there and building, you know, you're learning what is a p and l for starters? You know what? Like, how do I allocate these funds? And, you know, when you go from no money to some money, dude, it's. It's very challenging to really comprehend that, because you go from nothing, nothing. Fuck, I got 20 grand. What do I do? And $20,000 might as well be $200,000 when you have nothing, right? So it's like. And then how do you properly deploy that? So I think it's, you know, anybody out there, at least from my opinion, if you want to raise, try the bootstrapping route for a little bit to understand the value of a dollar. And I'm not going to put a timeline on it, a bootstrap for two years or anything like that, but you need to understand how money works.
And, you know, I've. Dude, I've been in. I've overinvested in certain things in my business. I thought that I needed. I was like, oh, I need this. I'd rather have it not need it, and vice versa. And now I'm like, dude, you were an idiot. You should have waited until you were busting at the seams and then done it, you know? So, again, but that's the learning of it. And now, you know, going through a lot of those experiences. That's why I know for a fact if I'm not looking for capital, but if somebody came to me and was like, dude, I really love what you're doing. Here's. Here's some money, I know that I'm going to actually make that work, and I'm not going to squander it, like a billion dollars or whatever amount that, you know, because it wasn't just them, man.
There was billions of dollars invested here over these last couple of years, and a lot of those companies aren't here anymore.
Yeah.
And it's. I think it's a lot. I don't think it's market driven. I don't think it's product driven. I just think they didn't know how to spend the money properly.
I would 100% agree with you. I I've been offered so much money to continue to grow AVRL, and we've always turned it down because that is my biggest fear, is that if I went out and I raised $100 million, I'm gonna end up losing AVRL because I do not know how to deploy the capital. Like, plain and simple.
Yeah, dude. And it's smart though. And that's why, you know, again, it's like, I want that success too, right? Like that instant success. I want to be able to know, go to my mortgage company and pay it off, you know, like that. That's a very big goal of mine, is to be completely debt free. But, like, I know that if I don't earn it, I'm gonna fucking piss it all away. I know myself well enough. And, you know, I think that long term, it's like you need to go through these challenging times to get better, most importantly, and to become investable. Right? Because that's another thing. Like, I think the arrogance of people. It's like, oh, I have this product, you should give me all this money. No. Are you investable or like, as a person? Right?
Because I've heard this, you know, in a book. Sorry, that's a fucking dodgeball reference. But, you know, they talk about this a lot. Most companies, most investment firms, they bet on the jockey, not the horse. They bet on the person, you know? And it's like they need to feel that in you. So it's like, unless you have that ability to really sell yourself, man. That's why I think that a lot of it of going out there and doing it on your own for a little bit of pays off in the long run. Because you know what? Back to that ego, man. You think for fucking 2 seconds I don't believe that I'm going to accomplish what I have in my mind? Fuck, yeah. I'm going to know that I'm going to do it right.
But that comes from me kind of getting my face beat in for a few years and realizing, I don't know shit. I need to educate. I need to get better. And then that's where a lot of those results are going to come from.
Absolutely, yes. You like, I actually believe, like on the bootstrap thing specifically, like, how could you operate a $10 million company if you don't know how to operate a hundred thousand dollar a year company? You have to also learn how to operate and understand what it takes to get from areas to areas. I think there's like big milestones, right? Like going from zero in revenue to $500,000 insane to a million. From 500,000 insane. From one to five insane. From five to ten insane. Ten to 20 super hard. You have to figure out how to operate at every single level. And those aren't the only levels there's tons. Like, you could infinitely throw that out there and it could be just as hard for someone to go from like one hundred thousand dollars to five hundred thousand dollars, you know?
Yeah, dude, and that's the thing, man, was when you go from zero to 100,000 and then all of a sudden you have a little bit of money coming in and again, 100,000 feels like a million dollars, man. It's like, holy fuck, this is the most money ever. And, you know, you go through and, yeah, dude, it is crazy. But I like, one thing that I've come to realize here over these last couple of years is, you know, when things seem like they're not going to work out and, like, everything seems to be going wrong, I know that I'm about to have a breakthrough and reach another level. And that, again, that comes from the experience of it where it's like, you know, you're almost getting prepared. Like, I'm a man of faith.
God's preparing me for that next level, you know, where it's like, man, if you want this, you got to better. You know? So it's like, and how do you get better? You got to go through challenging shit, right? Ultimately, anybody sit here is and says like, oh, I want to be stronger. I want to be this. Prepare to get your face fucking beat in day in and day out. Because you need to be able to properly out, you know, work through all those situations.
And you got to learn how to.
Enjoy it, dude, straight up, man. You got to learn how to get. You got to learn how to love getting punched in the face repeatedly and then know that the next day you're going to get up and you're going to fucking do it all over again.
It is really interesting to, like, look back on times, like, things that used to stress me out in, like, 2020, like, happened today. I'd be like, okay. Like, you know, and you just move on. And I do think you, like, build this resiliency or, like, you always have problems and those problems get, like, bigger and bigger. The problems that you've experienced in the past, you get to a point where you're, like, almost numb to them.
Yeah, dude. And that's the thing, man, is it's like, you got to go through these things. You got to get that ego going because most importantly, like, I just saw this quote by Gary Vee the other day. Like, if you can't be your own cheerleader, who the fuck's going to believe in you? And that's the thing, man. Like, it doesn't matter. No matter what. It doesn't matter if companies doing good, doing bad. You have to be your biggest fucking cheerleader. You have to go out there, and you better believe it. Because if you don't believe in you, nobody's going to fucking believe in you, right? Like, you're not going to get that respect out there. Because, like, that's another thing, too, that I see is everybody thinks, like, oh, that, like, they just deserve that. Like, man, you got to earn that.
Nobody's going to believe in you until you're successful, right? You got to believe in you. And by the time you reach that point where that external validation starts to come in, your ego is already there because you're like, man, I fucking built it, you know? Like, you know what? You better bet your ass that we're here, because I fucking worked for that. Like, did you just think I was just sitting back here all fucking day and just staring at my computer monitor? No, man, I was putting in the fucking work. I was cheering for me before anybody cheered for me.
Yeah. And then, like, you have to redeploy that into your employees. Like, Madison, just amazing employee of mine, she texted me one day, and she's like, I don't think that anyone in my life has ever believed in me more than you. And that's, like, a really weird thing to get from an employee. But, like, you also have to, like, fully believe in them if you want them to produce that.
Also, right now, I'm right there with you, man. And that's the thing is, if you're a leader of an organization, you have to be out there, and you have to lead by example. And I'm actually, you know, next week, we'll be in another conference together as well. And I'm talking about that because it's like, if you want your team to get results, you better be leading by example. You know, again, bringing back up Sean McLeod, that he's the president of his company. He still makes sales calls, right? How many other leaders out there can say that? That they're the leader of a hundred million, 500 million, multibillion dollar company, and they're still dialing? I don't know of anybody else out there at his level that's still doing. That's what I fucking love about that dude. Like, he is truly setting the tone out there.
And there is a direct correlation to a company's success and that. Right. Like, I think it's top down. If you want that bottom up buy in, you better be fucking leading from the top man. You better be leading from the front.
Yeah, I will. And I, like, I firmly believe this is something my dad taught me. I'm, like, really proud of is, like, I will outwork anyone on my team all day long. You want to know what I'm going to do a sending Sunday night? I'm building Madison's pipeline. Like, I'm helping her prospect. I'm doing things like that. I'm helping our engineering team, like, get ready for the things that they need to do. I think you have to become, like, gotta still do your job. Gotta still do, like, the CEO job. But I still need to be, like, ancillary part of AVRl to get people what they actually need.
Yeah, dude, I'm right there with you. But Chad, we're at the 30 minutes mark, brother.
I love it.
Please fly by. I appreciate you, dude. Thank you so much for joining me. That is gonna be it for this episode. You guys, as always, you guys know what to do. You guys got value. I know you get value every time that Chad comes on. I'm fired up after this conversation, but subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon. And cut. Do those internal memos for my guy.