Lightning like Steve McQueen I'm in the fast lane when the light turns green and I built tough I ain't nothing but grit cause I made rugged blood, sweat and spit yeah like a horse I fly better push yourself in for a bumpy ride I like to play hard but I work harder and I under the storm cause I'm built stronger.
What is up, ladies and gentlemen, we are back. We are live. It is the freight Coach Paul podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 830 in Pacific, 1030 central. To break down some industry information, you guys break down some topics, you know. But I only rest assured you guys, I only speak with transportation professionals because I want to talk to the individuals out there, you guys who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve. Because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to give you information that you can apply, utilize and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. You guys know the routine. If you. I know you guys are going to get value on this one, but share the show, you guys.
Subscribe to it. Get it out there, you guys. But with that being said, I don't want to waste any more time because I got a very special guest for you guys here today. He is the prospect, you know, he is the individual that we're all cold calling and, you know, not him in particular, but people like him. And we're going to talk about the sales process today and everything and give you guys some information that you can apply to your business right now from a business development perspective. So I got my good friend John Brewer back on the show. John, thank you so much for joining me.
Appreciate you having me on. Chris, it's been a minute and I've always loved chatting with you and I actually learn things just as much as I give out information, too. So it's a win.
No, man. And that's the, like, that's the beauty of content. That's the beauty of podcasting and everything here because, you know, there's so much information that's out there and sometimes you just need a fresh perspective on things to help you think of things in a whole new light and, you know, hopefully be able to use that for, you know, a benefit in your business and everything.
Absolutely. And over the, I guess ever since the beginning of COVID I've been reaching, you know, I've had people reach out to me. I've been on podcasts and trying to share that shippers perspective because a lot of shippers keep that kind of close to the vest, but to give them that insight so that, you know, the reps out there can better and more successful at what they do.
Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's kind of the whole thing because, you know, I've been very fortunate to meet a lot of shippers through podcasting, and they, you know, they've all came on and given out advice for people to apply onto their business. And, you know, again, I always like to preface any shipper show with this. This isn't an open invite for the people who are listening to this to go blow up John's DM's with solicitations and everything else, but this is a way for you guys to take this information and apply it to your current prospects and everything else. Because, like, one thing I've noticed in my career, you know, sales is the same across the board. Right. I don't. I personally think sales is a system that you can apply in any industry.
And, you know, from my standpoint, because, you know, like, I cold call every single day. Right. I send out cold call. I do cold emails every single day. I make cold calls every single day. And, you know, it's a drawn out process. And especially right now, like, this is probably the longest sales cycle I've ever been a part of for a lot of my prospects. And, you know, because people don't need you know, like, they don't. There's not a shortage of opportunities that come their way from their transportation providers. And you need to really be committed to the long term and in these times.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Once Covid hit, I mean, it changed the whole landscape out there. It's. It went from really crazy one direction to really crazy the other direction. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. You know, I always tell people this is a very cyclical business. And usually before COVID this, the cycles were turning about every twelve to 18 months, and now it's pushed out to 24 to 36, maybe even longer. So it's, even myself, you know, the veteran that I am, I'm swimming uncharted waters. It's. It's bizarre. I've never seen this in my entire career.
Yeah. And, you know, because it's like, I, I feel the same way, man. I think that one thing I've noticed from, you know, the business that we've developed here over, you know, these last couple of years is it might take, you know, 90 to 120 days to get to the onboarding and then it might take another 90 to 120 days to win the first shipment where in years past it was, you know, it might have taken you 90 days to onboard somebody, but you would almost get approved shipment right away. That's gone now. It's, you know, depending on the style of customer. Right. But for, you know, for the most, not everybody out there is an RFP shipper.
But, you know, for the ones that do onboard, you like that don't operate in an RFP, I've seen that where, you know, you can onboard somebody, it might take three to six months to onboard and then it might take another three to six months before you even winden your first shipment. And you might be bidding out 2030 loads a week and you're still coming up short and everything because, you know, it's just that priority list where, you know, they're, everybody who you're competing against might have been working with this shipper for the last ten years, the last five years, and you're fighting against that now.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
So with that being said, john, how can somebody add value in the prospecting phase knowing that it's going to take as long as it is? Like, what's the right way to kind of follow up with, say, somebody like you who might operate in an RFP that you're got, you're not adding anybody for the next twelve months, minimum. How can I or anybody out there with any of their prospects who might be in this situation reach out to you in a timely manner? That's nothing bombarding you?
That is an excellent question. I do get bombarded from time to time. I typically, if somebody reaches out to me, number one, I'm gonna be straight up with them and say, hey, I don't have anything right now. You know, I'll either give them, you know, a timeline of reach back out to me in six months because I'll have an RFP coming. Or if It's still uncertain, if it's still not defined, I may ask them to reach out to me about every 30 days just to shoot me an email just to stay top of the right, stay on top of the radar because shippers get pounded left and right. You know, you got limited time and everybody wants a piece of it.
So obviously, you know, if it's a good carrier, a good broker, and you really want to see if you can find a business fit, you know, you want to, you want them to keep, be top of mind with you pretty often in the month long, Kate, you know, doing it month, the monthly cadence. I think number one, it doesn't bombard me with emails. It doesn't become annoying. And then, you know, as you get down the line and you start to see stuff firm up to where you may need to do a mini RFP or something if you have a project coming, it still keeps them in the mix so you don't forget about them as well.
Yeah, that's, you know, that's one thing that we really try and do our best where, you know, I have a rule where, you know, because I have some prospects that I've been reaching out to now for 1617 months and I haven't heard anything back. But I also, they haven't blocked me either. So I'm assuming that I'm in their good graces or they just instantly delete. I'm in that mass email that they just delete right away. But, you know, I have, it's essentially in every three week rule, John, where we're kind of dropping in every three weeks and a lot of it to me, I've never once reached out to these prospects and like, hey, add me to your list. Let me bid on your freight.
It's more of like, I'm trying to highlight our, what I think are our top service offerings out there, like how we operate. I want to kind of put that out there to our prospects so, you know, they have an idea because I think like the worst approach that a lot of people go in is like, hey, add me to your RFP. Hey, let me start bidding on your freight right away. And I want to more like, hey, we've taken our time. You know, we know that you know, your building materials, right? So you, everything you do is flatbed. And we'll talk about how we work with our other flatbed shippers and kind of walk through that process out there.
That's something that we personally apply because I feel like it's a, you know, anybody can say that we're the best at everything, but I want to show my prospects in a way where it's like, hey, this is, this is who we are. This is what we do.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and one of the things that I do personally is if a broker or carrier does something like you just mentioned, I actually have a folder on my email and I'm like, hey, I don't need this service right now, but it may come in handy down the road. There may be an application that be worth reaching out to you. And if I know what you're doing and I know where your strengths are, it's my job to kind of put, I tell people to put the right player in the right position at the right time. That's, that's a trans manager or logistics manager's responsibility. And not just to sit here and throw RFP after RFP. You know, it's kind of like the old spray and pray on the sales side. You know, we shouldn't be doing it either.
So, you know, if you have something, one of the things that I looked at, just an example, is I have from time to time, I have expedited shipments that need to be refrigerated or frozen. And so if I get a provider that says, hey, we specialize in reefer sprinter vans, well, I'm going to put them in a folder because I know sooner or later I'm going to need a reefer sprinter van and I'm going to pick up the phone and call them. And to your point, if you put all that data, you know, be succinct, obviously, but if you put all that data in an email, then I'm going to use that kind of like a playing card that I may need. I may need that ace in the back pocket down the road somewhere.
And then if I do, I got it handy right there for me.
So with somebody like you who has multiple facilities out there, do you, would you recommend, you know, because we prospects people as well as everybody who's listening to this show that have, you know, say, ten facilities nationwide, do you think it would beneficial to choose the one facility that they know that they could be strong out of and then focus on that? Or is it, hey, we, you know, we see you have these eight facilities, you know, and then like, talk about how you can just kind of handle all of that freight, right, that.
Goes for, you know, not only facilities, but also for lanes and geography. I want you to handle the lanes and or the facility, facilities that best fit your wheelhouse because you're going to be, you know, you're going, your service level is going to be there, you know, your pricing is going to be there. That's your bread and butter. You've done it a hundred day, you know, for 100 years, you know, your, you know, your stuff. And then again, going back to kind of that trans logistics manager role, it's my job to find those little, what I would call niche players and patchwork them together against my supply chain so that I have good service level providers with sustainable capacity and sustainable rates in each of those areas that I can lean on.
Basically what you're doing is, I equate it to building the dream team. You want the best out there so that, you know, your customers get their freight. Everybody's working in tune, everybody knows everybody. So I literally tell carriers and brokers especially, that if there's a lane on there that you're not successful with or it's hit and miss, don't bid on it. Just leave it blank. And that's not going to prevent you from any future business. That's just going to let me know it's better for you to do that than to take that load or try to service that facility and screw it up.
Yeah, no, I think those are great points. Right? And again, like, I, that's just where I've found the most success from a business development standpoint. John is taking that approach. And now, you know, again, you guys, I want to be abundantly clear, this isn't the magic formula for everybody. Because just because John wants it done this way or some of my shippers want it done this way, I've also heard the inverse of that where they're like, if you can't do everything for us, we don't want to talk to you. Or they're just, they just don't care. Right. Because they don't need you at that moment.
But I've just found that, you know, holding myself to that system has worked out more beneficial for me in the long term, you know, because I have, there's, you know, one of my shippers, they got like 15 facilities nationwide, but they're like, hey, we know you're good on the west coast. We want you to just focus on our west coast, and that's it. And I was like, you know me, naturally. I'm like, well, what about your east coast facilities? And they're like, in due time, just start with the west coast and then, you know, you kind of graduate and grow up from there. But, you know, a lot of the business development calls that I'm making right now, you know, say if they're in Florida, for example, we know one of our customers runs the eastern seaboard, right?
So it's Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina down to Florida. Those are the lanes that we really focus on. And when I'm calling people, it's, hey, here's who I am. This is our specialization. These are the lanes that we're currently working with. Our current customers and we're trying to find additional freight to match up with our carriers. And, you know, I work with that and it has worked for long term and I think like, it's a complete plug and play perspective here, John, because there's going to be people who just do reefer freight. There's going to be people who just do drive in freight. And it's the terminology is the same across the board.
And I just think that where you get yourself in trouble is if they were to solicit your business and go in there and just tell you like, hey, John, give me everything. We're the best at everything we can do, drive in, Reefer, sprinter, ltl, you name it, just give us everything. I think that's where people find themselves in trouble.
Yeah, that's just a simple common sense thing for me. You know, even if you were, even if you were that utopian broker or utopian carrier and to do everything and maybe even do it well, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket and I'm not betting on just one horse in the race. Now I'm going to take that business of mine and I'm going to spread it around so that everybody gets, you know, everybody gets enough food, they're not starving, you know, and kind of hash it out that way. But if somebody comes into my office and starts telling me, hey, I'm graded, everything, I've been around long enough to know, no, you're not. Yeah, there's something, there's something there that's. That you're not good at or you're halfway good at, but you're not great at everything.
So that's, that usually makes the hair on the back of my neck start to stand up and that can probably impact the amount of revenue or amount of sales that carrier or broker is going to get from me because nobody's good at everything.
Yeah, I agree. Right. And I know that obviously there's some organizations that are large enough that have just ltl people and just dray age people and just reefer people. But like, I think that's not everybody. That's actually the minority in this industry. The overwhelming majority of people are small to mid size and you're kind of dabbling in everything. And I think that, you know, really choosing down on that specialization, and a lot of it is when, when you're just getting started out and when you're building things up, how you might not know where to go and you might not know where what direction to kind of handle. And that's why I always tell people, choose one thing, own your backyard. You know, I'm here in Phoenix.
If I was just starting in freight today, I would choose one thing and I would just hammer that the Phoenix market and just go with that and then build up from there. You know, like, I don't want to confuse people, but, you know, it's like I've been doing this for a long time, so it's like I feel very confident doing full truckload, drive in reefer, open deck, over dimensional stuff like that because I've done it at a high volume. But I think a lot of individuals, when you're starting out, you got to build up that specialization and then you can kind of expand out from there. But I think, like, you know, what are your thoughts on this, John?
Say a provider gets in the door and they're regional for you, they're in the southeast, they're reefer, but they want to expand out to maybe doing some LTl for you or maybe go into the northeast for you. How do they stand out as a provider to kind of get that, you know, move up that totem pole?
Well, it's typically, you know, obviously I will preach to the day I retire or die, whichever comes first, that this is a very relational business. And that relational business is built on trust. And trust is built by doing what you say you're going to do. So if this provider has been in the fold for a while and they're really successful with what they're doing, that's, let's just say Reaper in the southeast, and they come to me and say, hey, John, you know, we want to, we kind of want to expand. And you, we've been with you a few years and, you know, we've taken good care of your business, you know, then we can have some conversations and, you know, run some test shipments. You know, I'm willing to take a chance if you've proven yourself to me.
I'm not going to give you every referral LTl shipment I have, but it's that crawl, walk run routine. And if you have these longstanding relationships that have traversed over the years, you know, I, projects come across my desk all the time. Different things. We're doing this different, we're doing that different. And if I think that you might be upfit, you may be getting a phone call from me, say, hey, I've got this project. I think you might be a fit. Come take a look at it and let's have, let's have a, let's have a dialogue on it, you know, and see if it's a fit. And if it is, that's great. If it's not, we'll look at something else. But still a firm believer, you know, you reward good service. Okay. You always reward good service.
You know, if somebody's in here and they're taking care of you and they're doing everything, they're dotting all the I's, crossing all the t's services, great rates are fair, then you want to grow that relationship and you want to grow that business, because it just makes sense. They're, they've proven themselves. They're a good player for you, and you want to, you know, you want to continue to help them be successful just like they're continuing to help you be successful.
Is it more important for them to show up when things are falling apart as opposed to when things are going right? And I'm saying that because I've personally experienced that when we're going through challenging times with a shipment or, you know, a couple of orders, that what saves us is how we operate in those times. It's like, that's what, that's when I've actually moved up with customers, is how we handle issues. What are your thoughts on that? Is that a way to where it's like, it's almost more important to show up during those times than when things are going right? Because when things are going right, that's kind of your job? That's the expectation.
Yeah, absolutely. My previous, my previous job, I had a carrier up in New England. I talked to him once a year, if you can believe that, and he hauled freight for me on a weekly basis. But he always had good service, he always had good rates. He never, you know, he never caused any issues. And honestly, the only reason why I called him once a year was just to see if he was still alive.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, a shipper's time is everybody's wanting a piece up. And, I mean, the teams that I work on, that work with me. I have very small teams, and we're in triage from, for most of the work day. So I'm not going to be making arbitrary phone calls or taking arbitrary phone calls when things are going good. Now, when the fit hits the shan. Yeah. Then you're going to get a phone call.
Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've just kind of found that where I, I would rather just rip the band aid off and, you know, like I've just found, I guess, that more times than nothing, the solution is all that the customer is looking for in that moment. You know, it's not the fact that something happened, because if you've been doing this job for longer than a day, you understand that there's going to be delays, there's going to be breakdowns, there's going to be, shipments are going to be loaded wrong, the driver's going to have to return. There's a bunch of stuff. You just need to actually be decisive in those moments and make a call and provide a solution. You know, fortunately, unfortunately, I've been in a lot of predicaments in my career, Jon, and I know how to handle a lot of these situations.
And I've just found that, you know, you need to be decisive. You need to come to a solution right away. But most importantly, I think, let's say you need to, you know, I had another good friend of mine who's a shipper on the show, and he told me this, and this has stuck with me. Don't ever take my ability to do my job away from me. And you not communicating with me takes my ability to do my job away from me.
Absolutely. And I think not only the solution is important, but I think the commitment to accountability is important. You know, I think, you know, if, let's say you stubbed your toe on a shipment, then number one, you need to effectively communicate. Absolutely. I don't want my customers telling me you're late. I want you telling me you're late. And then number two, to your point, have that solution. But, you know, and number three, just, you know, don't walk away when the plane's going down. You know, stick with it. Be, you know, be a partner. Let's clean up the mess. You know, I'm willing to help, you know, my brokers and carriers or even my distributors clean up a mess, even if I didn't do it, because it ultimately affects my customer service to my internal and external customers. And I'm willing to help.
So I would rather you call me up, say, hey, this happened. Here's our solution. What do you think? Or this happened. Is there something you can do on your side to, you know, get us back in or whatever? I can, I can work with that. I can work with that all day long. And you're 100% right. Everything is not going to be perfect all the time. And I've been in the industry long enough to know I've seen some pretty crazy crap. So you just, the stories would just make your eyes roll. You. You think I was just bsing because the truth is stranger than fiction. It's. I've seen a lot, I've heard a lot and, but having that kind of, that spirit of partnering and, you know, I'm not going to yell and scream at you if you screw up.
Now, if you screw up nine loads out of ten, then we've got a problem. But everybody, I know, everybody has a bad week or a bad day. If you start having bad months or bad years, then you're probably not long for my world. Yeah, you know, I'm willing to work with that and I'm willing to have those conversations and I'm not going to be yelling and screaming and hollering because that doesn't solve anything. Yeah, you know, a level head is going to rule the day and, you know, I'm saying, okay, what happened and what's your solution, if you have one? Or what do you need me to do and work through it? Because you're exactly right. I mean, if supply chain worked 100% perfect, 100% of the time, all of us would be unemployed.
Correct. 100% agree. I was going to say, john, I wanted to because I got a lot of owner ops and drivers who tune into this. What could an owner op do to get into like an RFP? You know, because I know there's the local shippers and stuff like that, but how can an owner op get into, to something like that? Or even how could they find dedicated freight for themselves?
That's a calculus question. So let me, let me ask some clarifying there. If. Does the owner, is the owner of just one truck or could it be a sleeper trucks?
Yeah, truck operation. You know, the guys, the guy's based in Nashville and he likes to run, you know, down to Dallas, Texas and.
Back, only he or she, I would recommend they try to gravitate to the lower volume shippers because if you deal with somebody such as myself or, you know, at Walmart or, you know, whoever, they're moving so much magnitude of volume that an owner operator is just going to drown. You know, I can't, as a trans logistics manager, I can't place, you know, I can't get down to the, that granular of a level with my freight, you know, but if you get a smaller shipper who's, you know, maybe they're moving one load to net from Nashville to Dallas a week, or maybe they move in two or three, and they're, you know, they're small enough that they really want that service, which I do believe an owner opera would bring because you're his bread. You're his or her bread and butter.
And they want to keep the lane, obviously, because it's what they like to do. So I think they, in the lower ship, in the lower volume shippers world, they don't want to be a number, okay? They want to be, you know, Joe or Bob or sue or whoever, and they want to have somebody who can work with them. But I would, if you wanted my advice on it, I would say go down to the smaller end of the spectrum and try to match there.
So how would they, what are some sales tips for the drivers out there, the one truck owner operators? What would you, from your perspective, want to see if you were in, you know, you were in charge of that facility in Nashville that had three weekly shipments to Dallas. What would you want to see from that owner op?
That's a good question, too. Obviously, I can tell you just on my shipments, I would need to see their insurance qualifications, some of that liability mitigation documentation that they need just to have a comfort level because, and I'm speaking for me alone, but I, when it went, a one truck show comes up to me and I'm starting to get a little nervous, you know, because, you know, people, you know, they're not a swift or they're not a hun or they're not a average express or anything. They're just, I'm bob truck driver, so you kind of have to put, kind of allay those fears, you know, is this guy going to drive off and take my freight, you know, and not come back?
So you kind of have to, you have to put them at ease and put them, you know, have all your ducks in a row, have all your paperwork, all your documentation and be able to share that with them, you know? And then again, I'm going to go right back to building that relationship. Maybe you, maybe you come over to the, to the office a couple times a week for a few weeks and just sit down and talk and say, hey, you know, here's what I'm trying to do, is this, can, is this a fit for you know, and work on that. And then, you know, just, it's gonna be a challenge. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's just straight up gonna be a challenge. Yeah, I think the smallest company I've ever worked with had six trucks.
Okay.
So the singles are gonna be tough, but especially getting that dedicated. That dedicated lane that you want. And, you know, it's. You're gonna have to do a lot to. To give them kind of what I'd call the warm fuzzy.
Yeah, no, I gotcha. I think that, you know, that's good information for. For people, you know, to hear because it's. I think anybody, when they're trying to get their start in business, I mean, everybody has these visions of grandeur, right? Like, it's just everybody's. You're gonna get all this freight, you're gonna make all this money, and everything's gonna be all right, but it's just not as easy as that. And you really need. You need to have a plan, I think. Right. Like, ultimately you need to have a plan, you know, and show what your business is capable of. Right? Like you brought up insurance and. And everything else. I. I would put together a PDF file that has all of that stuff in it that, hey, here's who we are. This is what we have. This is where we like to run.
And, you know, again, like, I. You can just get an Adobe premier account and build one on your own. If you can't afford to have somebody do it for you for a fairly reasonable price and then print that off and then just go drop off and shake hands. Like, I'm going to be honest, John, that's one of the best things for business development that we do personally inside of my company is just call local places and shake hands. It's the best one. Does it lead to instant business? Absolutely not. But I personally feel my philosophy is this, when they need somebody, they're going to remember the person who showed up to them, then all the other emails and phone calls that they've gotten.
Absolutely. Again, going right back to that relational business. You know, you shake your hand, you give your word, you do what you say you're going to do, you build that trust, whether that be through that documentation that you mentioned or whether it be for you showing up and saying, hi, I'm Bob and I want to talk to you. All that. All that plays into it and will better your chances. Absolutely.
Hundred percent, John, I appreciate it, man. We're at the 30 minutes. Mark, I know you got a job to do, just like everybody else has a job to get back. At least they're going to. They're going to try and work on Friday afternoon, but, yeah, man, I appreciate you guys, and I thank you for showing up today and just answering these questions from a shipper's perspective because again, you guys, John is everybody's target market. All right? I would be hard pressed to meet a shipper out there that doesn't think like John when it comes down to the selection of their providers, that process and everything else. You guys. So take this information and apply it to your business. And please don't overly blow up John's DM's because I want to have him come back on at some point in time, you guys.
So John, thank you so much for joining me. We'll be back on Monday, you guys. We got guests coming on next week as well. As always, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. Dear network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys.
Appreciate it. Chris. Have a good weekend.
You too, John, thank you.