All right, we are going to start in three, two, and one. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of coffee with the freight coach. My name is Chris Jolly. I am your host and I am the freight coach. Before we jump into the episode, as always, thank you guys so much for coming out and listening to this podcast. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen, and I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak to transportation professionals because at the end of the day, I'm looking to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
So you can take this information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. I do have one small favor to ask. If you get value, I know you will. But if you get value in what you hear today and you're not subscribed, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. Dear network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. All right, I got a very special guest for you guys here. He's coming back on the show for the second time, and I just really enjoyed speaking with him. He's taught me a lot, you know, in the short time that we've known each other. And it's always a great conversation with him. Cause this guy loves freight. He loves what he does.
And it's so evident every time you hear him speak. So I got Mister Sean McLeod, the president of actual logistics, back on the show. So, Sean, thank you so much for joining me.
No, thanks for having me. It's good to be back on the show. I love talking freight. You hit it on the nail on the head. So it's all we deal with day in and day out. It's enjoyable. I love it. Would never change it for the world.
So now I'm right there with you, man. I think, like, from my perspective, like, I can't literally see myself doing anything else but moving freight. I can't see myself working in any other industry. Like, I just, like, I'm in love with the uncertainty of everything. Like, I've actually. The, the longer I've been self employed, I really have started to fall in love with the process and understanding. Like, looking back over six months, twelve months, and seeing the growth. Because, you know, I was talking about this the other day on my live show because, you know, when we started our agency up, like, we had no customers. We had no guaranteed business at all. And we started it essentially in January of 2023, which anybody who's been in this market for, you know, they.
They. Perfect timing.
Yeah, it's perfect timing. Nobody's onboarding new. New providers and everything else under the sun. But, you know, last year in 2023, it took us ten months to move 100 loads. And I was proud of that because that was zero. Nothing. That was just all grind, essentially, to build that out. And then when we look at that in 2024, we did that in five months. So it's like, you look at things on the macro level. Like, what took me ten months in last year, now took me five months this year. So it's like, that's where you need to, like, kind of focus on things as you're looking at growing your business or your book of business, because it's. It like, and especially right now, it's so easy to get consumed in. Oh, well, nobody's adding anybody, so I'm not going to.
I'm not going to make my calls or I'm not going to do my outreach. And I think, like, yeah, it is definitely the hardest market that I've ever worked in to develop business. But I just told you guys right there that we had no customers over this timeframe. I'm not doing or saying anything proprietary or special. I'm just. I'm just holding myself accountable to my outreach.
I mean, I hear that every once in a while as an excuse, you know, and why they didn't land business. But I was looking yesterday morning during our meeting, and we've landed 640 or 1640 new customers this year.
Dang.
We're averaging just over, like, 300 a month. The kicker is, though, I'm losing them as quick as we add them, because it's like they have the thrill of the hunt and the thrill of the win, and they want to land that new business, but then there's not as much follow up afterwards. You know, it's like 1600 plus new customers. 480 of them are one and dones, you know? And then, you know, like, just, why did you haul one low for them? You know, why did you forget about that person? And most of the time, it's just, hey, it's time management. We forgot about it. But, yeah, no, I hear you. The customers are out there, and like you said earlier, I mean, I wouldn't change this industry for anything.
When I get on my soapbox and go over here to the University of Tennessee and talk, I don't feel there's any other industry that can make you as well rounded of a person in terms of business as logistics, right? Because you've got to understand the markets. You've got to know what's going on in terms of even potential hazardous weather. You never know when you're going to make a phone call, a year out of college or even less. And then before you know it, you're flying across the country and sitting in a boardroom with a senior executive of an organization. So it's like those little things that you don't get that experience typically in most industries, right, you're going to typically go into a cubicle and it's quiet and it's boring and you're looking at the green screen.
And I'm just like, come on, this is the best industry for that. I mean, if I look at myself, even 20 years ago, you would never have thought that I could never speak to a stranger. I could never walk into a room with strangers and strike a conversation. I never was a great salesperson, but I could always land business. So it's like, you know, I hear people say that it's a tough market and no one's adding new providers. It's not the fact that you just want to jump in and just say, hey, I just want to be a new provider. Add me to your spot board. It's more like, I don't want to be a provider unless I can show you where I can add value. But in order for me to show you that, I've got to understand what you're facing today.
Let's have a conversation. So it's just getting everyone to also have that same conversation and not just jump. Right? So, hey, add me to your spot and if something pops up, let me know, you know? And this, we're seeing spot rate. It's slow, but we're seeing it. That's just not the way to get in today.
Yeah, I think that it's more people are just looking for that quick close than anything. They're looking to kind of get in and, oh, well, maybe, you know, if you just give me one opportunity, like, I mean, with all due respect to all my prospects, I'm not saying I don't want an opportunity to move their freight, but I don't just want a load from you know? Like, I want to work with you for the long term because, like, I, I try and say this often, man, like, this isn't a hobby to me. Right? Like, I'm not here, you know, like, I didn't start a business for the sake of starting a business. You know, like, I'm doing this to, to build the best freight brokerage in north american history.
I'm, look, I'm doing this to put information out there to help elevate the industry as a whole. Because what I talk about on this show, I don't like, do it opposite behind closed doors. You know, like, this is what I do every day because I'm a firm believer, Sean, that if we put out best practices en masse, we're going to elevate the industry. Customers are going to look at freight brokers differently. They're going to be able to sniff out the bad actors sooner. So when you're calling volume people, you're not going to be regulated to a one shot opportunity. And I think, like, so many more and more sales reps need to understand, like, your value is way higher than what can I do for you on a short term basis?
Like, you'll never be able to get in and truly understand a customer's book and what they can bring or what you can do to actually help them unless you're going to move 25, 5100 shipments sometimes before the real identifiers start to come to the surface.
No, I agree. And it's getting people to understand that I think we've had a shift in the last month for the rest of this year that I want more revivals than new freight. I'm like, I don't want to see the new customer count continue to scale because we're not adding value anywhere for most of them. I mean, we've landed some really great business this year from a new perspective, but it's just like, slow down, pump the brakes. And again, it's back to kind of what you and I were discussing earlier. You know, it's young people that are out on the floor that they've got to learn time management, but then they see the metrics that's there and they want to hit the metric, and then that's it.
And we've got to get them to understand that, hey, it's not just about hitting the metric and landing the three new customers every month or whatever we require you to land, but maybe slow your rolling. Try to grow the relationships and understand what they need to, instead of just, hey, I landed these three and I forget about them and go on to the next three because I know for a fact that's what's happening.
Yeah.
So now we're pushing this whole revive everyone. You know, I've got so many revivals that we need to hit up this year, and we're putting contests out every week and just trying to refocus the train of thought a little bit.
So I think, like, what some people need to realize, Sean, is not all business is good business at the end of the day, you know, and if you get out there and just adding somebody for the sake of adding somebody, like, I look at it like this. I equate this a lot to dating, or marriage. How many of you guys married your spouse after the very first date? Within 30 seconds, you're like, boom, let's get married. We're, we're, we're in a committed relationship now. It's the exact same philosophy and approach in sales and business development. If somebody is willing, like, I would say I have the best pitch in all of freight brokerage. Right. My, my pitch, that's, it's usually the best out there.
But I'm not that good, you know, but I would expect you and everybody who I have on this show to have that same sentiment. But it's like, you know, it's like, man, I don't, it's such a red flag of somebody within 30 seconds of hearing my name is like, yeah, send me all your information. We'll get you set up and let you bend on our freight. Oh, shoot. Okay. Like, I'm good, but I'm not strange about that one. Yeah.
And especially if you compare to, you know, like, use that data, set the amount of customers who onboard you, and then what do they grow into fruition from that 32nd pitch or take that data and compare that to somebody who you maybe had to prospect for six months, and then it took you another six months to get up to where you've built up some consistency inside of their business and then see which one is going to be there in five years.
Yeah. No, I have an outside sales rep that comes and speaks to me, like once a month. And I remember him saying, man, I've got this going and this going, and we've had great meetings and we're moving a little load here and there and nothing too major. And I'm like, just be patient. Just sit back, feed them information industry information that you learn or you see that you feel would beneficial to their business and then, you know, just wait, you know, and they're going to come to you with a project or a problem and how you can resolve it. You know, and he was so stressed out about it because he had not been in the logistics industry. He sold insurance before that. And then now he's been here just over a year.
And we had lunch two weeks ago and he's like, man, you're right. He's like, I'm not patient, but I'm killing it now. And I just had my first hundred thousand dollars month. And he's like, I love it. And I actually feel like I'm adding value because we're doing the things that others don't want to do, you know, and I'm just like, well, that's what's going to build up your, what do you call it? It's like, I can't remember. Somebody used a very good term for, like, building up your own, like, image with that customer. You know, you build your stock value with that customer to where when they need you, they're going to come and talk to you first over anyone else. And now every person that he's ever spoken to is just, they come to him right away.
We know you can handle it. You know, just take care of it for us. So you gotta be patient. You gotta add value. You don't, there is the small group out there. I, you know, we have 32 new hires this month or something. I know that they're all gonna jump the gun as soon as they get, you know, cut loose on sales and they're gonna try to reach out right away and get that quick win. And, you know, it's just part of the freight brokerage world. But you'll find out quickly that the quick wins are also the quick losers, and then the long term wins will stick with you long term. So, I mean, I've got customers still that, I mean, I, the first customer I ever landed in 2003 runs with me today.
Still, every customer I've ever moved freight with still runs for me today. And three of them are in my top five.
And that's awesome.
And that's after a two year non solicit. Yeah, I remember one of them calling me and saying, hey, Sean, guess what today is? I was like, what's that? October 17? I was like, okay. She's like, you're two days past your non solicit. Be here tomorrow. I was like, are you serious? Yeah, be here tomorrow. Booked a ticket, flew out east, and now I'm the only broker that runs their freight.
Dude, I love that Mandev.
I love that stuff, man. I know it's. Again, you can't, you've got to get to know, the people, though, you've got to take your time, understand themselves, understand their personal lives. I mean, I know everything about every customer that I work with, family life, sports, you know, and I try to teach it. You know, I just, it just takes time, though. It's so hard to. It's hard to teach, but I love it. That's the best part of it.
Do you think that, you know, because teaching is, you know, and educating people on the industry and best practices, I mean, it's probably the thing I'm the most passionate about outside of, you know, the industry in general. But, you know, I think that a good way for a lot of reps to approach it is just because they're in charge of transportation or handle transportation doesn't mean that they know transportation. That just might be another job duty on top of theirs. And, you know, I think that a lot of individuals need to go in with the approach of is, hey, you know what? I don't know everything.
They might not know everything, but what if we came up with some really efficient ways of working with each other that can uncover multiple, you know, cost savings across the board, and, you know, and you don't even have to go in and, quote, cheap on it, right? Like, how are they. How are they doing things? And I think, like, you know, because I've had a couple of my customers, because I have a philosophy that I want to go out and see everybody. I want to fly out to their facility. I want to meet them. I want to walk their docs. I want to spend time with them a little bit. And this is really before we move a high volume of freight with them. Because, you know, I've had multiple of our customers, Sean, tell me, they're like, listen, we're. We're a manufacturer.
We're not a transportation company. All right? This, this is why we outsource it. Yeah, we might have a logistics manager or transportation manager, but our core competency is our, of our company is our product, producing our product, manufacturing our product, and distributing our product. They're like, we hire partners to come to us about if there's any delays at the ports, if there's, you know, if there's other issues that are going on in the country, if there's any bills that are going to be proposed that change, you know, regulations and everything, we hire you guys to tell us that stuff. Otherwise, I don't need to work with you.
Yeah, that value add, right? Yeah, no, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, it's it's definitely, we have an awesome training program that's here, but you can't teach a lot of that. I don't feel like what you were just saying. It's, it's very important that people try to. The thing that I struggle with the most out of all this piece of it is them trying to know what to read and how to portray to the customer the right way. But we had a call with someone last week and they said the same thing, like, listen, you all are the experts. You all understand freight. We're moving shipments today and this is how we're moving it. We're not sure that it's the correct way. So we want you to come in and help us.
And whether we give it all to you or not, we may not be able to, but it's one of those things. Number one, we are going to fly out there. We push so much travel. If my largest expense outside of people is probably travel, because we need to get in front of as many people as we can, make sure that we understand them, understand their business and then also sit down. I think you ask anyone here, don't send me an email. If you want to talk, just come talk to me. That's one of the things that I didn't have that opportunity in my prior company. And they're like, why would you do that today? But my door is open. If you want to come talk to me. If I'm busy, I will shoo you away and I will make a note to come back.
But it's like you've got to be able to sit down and have conversation with people and really be able to explain what you can do to add value to a customer and get out in front of them. And it's important.
It's funny, Sean, you brought up one of my biggest goals in business right there, and that's to not check my, not have an email address that is for work related purposes, like you're discussing right there to where it's like, I want people to come and talk to me. I want that open door thing. And, you know, and I it, to me, it's also like having a team built up around me to where it's like, hey, if there you have an issue with, you know, x, go talk to the person who's in charge of x. Or go talk to the person who's in charge of o or go talk to the person who's in charge of, why don't email me that if you want to come and talk to me.
Come, come talk to me and we can walk through some things, but, you know, I. I think that there's for, at least from a business development and a customer retention and building customer loyalty. I personally am going the opposite of the way that a lot of people are in the market, Sean. When it comes down to automation and removing that human element, I'm doubling down on human to human interaction. I'm doubling down on old school methodology because I feel like the more people push removing that from it. How can you sit here and preach that you're all about relationships, but you send an automated message out to your team, you know, or if you send out a canned corporate, hey, we're proud of you guys message. How, how is that, how are you, how do you care about relationships?
I personally don't think you do.
No. It kills me. I hate that. I mean, the necessary evil is that you do have to, you know, make strides with technology. I do think there are some things you have to automate. Most of my automation is on the back end, you know, with the office because we're turning and burning 50, 60,000 invoices a month. But, you know, at the same time, if we have automation with a customer or shipper, it's because they've asked us, hey, what can you do here to automate this for us? And, you know, some people require you to automate a bit board. You've got to reply, you know, through a bot instead of doing it through email. And I get that if they want it, we're going to give it to them. So we do that today.
But I'm like you, we're going to continue to add expenses in terms of headcount because we want people sitting here answering the phones, which we're not the best at. If you see any complaints of us on Google, somehow we have a ton of reviews. The negative ones are not answering the phone, typically most of the time, because we're so busy. But it's like you've got to, you know, you've got to sit here and you've got to have somebody sitting here picking up the phone and talking to someone on the other end of the line. I don't want an automated response. I don't want some AI calling a driver for an update. You know, I don't forget that. That's old school when it goes to that. It's time for me to go and do something else.
Yeah, and I get it, some people want to go that route, but I don't about mentioning names. We haven't seen much success. The people that have done that today. Right.
So, no, I'm right there with you sean. Yeah. To clarify, I think 95% of my day should be automated except for the human element of it. I really do because you're right. When it comes down to processing loads and location updates that can come through with tracking. And there's some great technology where it's like if you get a location update on a high priority shipment for, through your tracking software, it automatically emails an update over to your customer. Yeah, that's exactly what you should be automating. But the second that a driver has a question, it shouldn't be a bot responding to that. Or the second a customer reaches out, like, I feel like that's when you got to pick up the phone and really see how, you know, to show people how like to make them understand how much their business means to you.
Because, and I think like that's something that I think a lot of brokers are going to have a really hard time with as the market is not easy because it's easy to cover freight right now. And I think that brokers have a very hard time understanding that they're going to eventually have to have relationships with carriers. It's not just going to be, oh, if you don't want to do it, we're going to pull this business from you and give it to somebody else because that's not going to fly in another market out there. And you know, again, it's just like I, I have a philosophy in my business, Sean, where if there's accessorials, I will send a revised rate confirmation and I will fight my customer on the back end to get that money.
And if they don't pay me that money, I don't know if I want to work with them because it's not my driver or my responsibility to pay for anybody else's inefficiencies. Just like if you reduce our rate for our failure, that's on us. I'm not going to go back and tell you know, anything differently.
Man, that's such a pet peeve it. I mean I was a carrier for three years when I started in the industry and where I learned most of the freight brokerage, right? Two things that kill me is we're paying or not. I mean I fight that. It's always a tough one. But then at the same time, you know, it's like you say, building relationships with carriers. It's like I've still got a carrier that ran with me. He's now got two trailers and one Maryland for me and back. I think he's probably 87 years old now, still running in a truck. Loves what he does. Says he doesn't want to stop because if he slows down, his body will. But it's like, those are the relationships that matter. Get all the representatives.
That's why I'm coach, is you got to get back to the day to grow your business. So, I mean, this driver used to tell the story to rev saw the area. I still remember I had this load going to Butler, Pa, for Gatorade, and it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to take it. He only runs southwest Virginia to Maryland for me. And he went to Butler, Pa, just north of Pittsburgh. And go figure, the one time he doesn't want to go there because it's heavy. It's a lot of hills going through West Virginia to cover Pittsburgh and so forth. He broke down. I was like, shoot, man. I was like, he did me this favor. He broke down. I'm, like, trying to get approval from my gym at the time to see if I can maybe help out with his repair cost.
And it just so happens my dad had a company in Jamestown, New York, just east of Erie and south of Buffalo. So we stopped and had dinner with the guy. Never met him. He lived an hour south of me in Martinsville, Virginia, and we're having a early Thanksgiving dinner with him in a truck stop while he gets repaired. And so that's the cool shit that people need to get out here and do today. That pisses me off, because they don't sometimes. Yeah, you've got to take care of everybody, and I've got three people on carrier relations, and I'm one of them, you know, and I hate that people go to Google sometimes to complain before we can find out who they are. But if you go to carrier relations, we're going to fix.
We're going to step in and we're going to handle it the right way, you know, and people need to understand it. And I use that. I do that because I use this in training. I want to be out on the floor talking to people, and they need to understand how important that relationship is.
So, no, I'm right there with you, Sean. And I think a lot of individuals need to understand that. Like, it's amazing how great a lot of these trucking companies are if you give them everything that they need to let them do the job that they're really good at. I don't believe in, like, withholding information from anybody and stuff like that. Cause, like, we call ahead on literally everything. We call the shippers, we call the receivers, we verify, double check, triple check, everything. Because you know what? Sometimes things are wrong. And I feel like it's my job as a broker to ensure that my carrier is set up for success on these loads. And in the event that something changes, we're there to help fix it, right? Like, I don't, we don't ghost anybody.
If there's something going wrong, we're proactively reaching out to our carriers and letting them know, hey, this is what we just did. This is what were talking about. And 99% of the time, it's no harm, no foul. Thank you for letting us know. And I like, and I'm, I stand on this a lot when I say this, that I think that a lot of brokers are really going to struggle when it comes down to when the market shift happened, Sean, because I have had an alarmingly high amount of drivers, compliment us and say thank you for treating us with respect. Thank you. Like, nobody's told me I've done a good job in a year. Like, and like, well, that's exactly it. But as a competitor, Sean, I'm like, you guys have no idea what's coming, man.
Like, a lot of you don't because a lot of you have only worked in an environment where you were in control. You don't think carriers add value, which to me, man, I don't like. Again, and I challenge every broker out there, present me a business plan where a freight broker makes money without trucks. Present it to me.
You don't have a job.
Yeah.
If you don't have a truck, you won't have a job. So you've got to figure it out. Yeah, you can preach this. So you're blue in the face and the problem is you still have people that do it and I have employees that do it. And I try to catch every single one of them that I can. Every review that gets posted, I'm like, I want to know who it is, what the scenario is, and I'm going to go sit and have a talk with him and his boss or his team lead. So, I mean, it's you, we preach it to her blue in the face and you still see people that'll go off on a weekend or something. I mean, it's not the driver's fault that you sent him in there and they weren't open.
So now find a fix for it, pay him to stick around till Monday or find a place where you can take the product off the truck if the customer allows you to. So it's just part of it. It's just the fight. But I agree with you. Let the competition keep doing it their own way and treating them disrespectfully, and that's just more afraid.
No, and that's exactly it. There's a lot more opportunities are going to come your way. And, you know, and when I started brokering again back in 2023, I did it obviously very well, knowing that it was going to be challenging. I didn't think it was going to be like this hard. I didn't think it was going to take this long. But I'm glad that I'm going through it right now because, like, I look at it as like a, you know, because our company motto, Sean, is it's one truck at a time, no matter what. Like, we bring on, we onboard a customer, we win 20 loads. Perfect. One truck at a time, one truck at a time.
Every single day that we do this, because I have a, you know, a philosophy that I kind of abide by, where every action that I do is an audition for the next act and that's what it is. Every load that I move for a customer is an audition for the next one. Every load that I book with a carrier, it's an audition for them to, you know, work with me again in the future, you know, because I don't think of in terms of how do I get rich today. I think of in terms of how do I keep this revenue growing over the next twelve months. Because, like, I got a p and l, you know, like I got an office to pay for.
And it, you know, it's one of those things where I invested in a bigger space with the anticipation of being able to fill it with bodies and, you know, the revenue didn't justify it. So, you know, here we are, right? Like, those are those decisions and those are those things that you go through. But I also look at it as like I'm auditioning for that and I know it's only a matter of time. I know it's only a matter of time before the floodgates open up of opportunity. And I will gladly work 15 hours a day doing that stuff. Like, because hard work, long hours, don't. Like, that doesn't scare me at all.
Like, I am open to that because I know that I set out on this path to make a difference in the industry and to build a top tier organization that people are proud at and most importantly, people are proud to work with. You know, like, I be a broker, a choice to carriers and customers. I want people to see my name out there and we're like, damn, we're going to work. We want to work with them because they treat us better than everybody else. You know, they go above and beyond and, you know, because it's like, I want it to be an experience, Sean.
Like, I want it to be an experience to where it's like, I understand that there's only so much we can do legally in certain situations, but like, man, when's the last time you, like, took your driver, paid for your driver's lunch or, you know, like, hey, man, we know that it's, you know, it's a weekend, you know, run and you're going to be there Saturday. Can we get you a hotel on Saturday night or something? Like, like when's the last time? And like, I know obviously revenue is dependent upon some of these things from happening, but like, that's what I mean, man. I want people to look at it. It's like, damn, these guys go above and beyond for us every single time. That's why I give them our trucks over anybody else.
I'm sure some of them think we're crazy. Some of the drivers think we're crazy. But we send teams out to the two major truck stops that are near us and we'll hand out little like, axle business cards that have Carrie relations on it and our website. But we also give them a little gift card to either like a subway or something like that. And, you know, we've, in the beginning, we're like, yeah, we're kind of getting some weird pushback. Like, who are these people? Why are they giving it to us? But lately they've been very appreciative of it, you know, and it's good for those employees to get out there, experience and actually talk to the drivers and figure out what's going on.
You know, go into a loves and like, sit there and see those guys that are waiting for the shower, you know, and don't get to go home for two weeks, that sort of thing. And it's like the, you know, the market right now is going crazy and the cost of products, anything is gone up, right. Food, I mean, living expenses. So then you got to work harder and stay going even longer. So they got to understand that piece of it from the driver side. But then it's also good to be the way you want your business to be and respected within the industry because you also want to attract top talent, right?
And so, yes, you want carriers to come and work for you and you want customers to come and work for you, but you also want the best talent that's out there, that's also going to stand behind you and take care of it, because when the market shifts, you're going to need it. Right? That's like us. We're. I don't know. I did four, I mean, I did like 490,000 shipments last month. We're up, like, we're pacing up 27% or something like that. In terms of low count this year, we should be at like 650 ish by the time we're done. But I'm like, man, if the market flips with all the relationships and customers that we've landed, we're going to need way more people and we need good people and we need to be able to train them quickly or experienced people from the industry.
So, you know, it's, the shift is what went from 171 million to $520 million in one year, the first full year of COVID And you want to talk about having to hire a lot of people and train a lot of people and get them to understand, to treat carriers with respect and how to add value. I mean, my training team is probably the best I've ever seen. I don't know how they do it as much as they do, but, yeah, we get people that know nothing and in 32 days they come out of that training program and you think they've been in the industry a year. It's wild.
So I love that, man. And that's the thing. You guys are one of the only companies who I've consistently seen grow over these last couple of years because everybody grew during 2021 and 2022, whether there's. But like, your guys'you, know, you guys stand out on that list to me because you guys grew in 2023. You guys haven't taken a step back at all where a lot of companies were. You know, some of them who, you know, you go through the top ten of freight brokerages that are out there, they were all a lot bigger over a two year period, and now they're all back to pre Covid numbers. And I've said this, like, to me, that means that they didn't change. Nobody did anything differently. Nobody, nobody captured any more market. They just continued to operate the way that they did.
They cashed their checks and that was it. You guys try to probably make a.
Lot more margin and not worry about low count, because in our industry, low count is everything.
Yes, yes. And I see you guys have grown your headcount. You guys have grown your overall revenue that's reported out there. Year over year, went from.
Like, 772 to 808. But what's crazy is the, when we did that, were up, like, 32%, low count. But revenue was almost technically kind of flat. It was like four and a half percent. Right. So that was from 22 to 23. So it's like you had to do a lot more just to make the same amount of money, but it's part of it. Now we're pacing up, like, 27%, low count. It's going to be like 22% revenue. I'm just under a billion. I did 808 last year. I looked this morning. I'm pacing 997 right now. And the second half of the year is the busier half of the year for us. But. So we're doing the right things, man.
But I tell you one thing that's a huge, huge piece of that is we've got two owners that went to Tennessee that are badasses that get it. There's no private equity behind us giving us money, you know, so if we got a run on low margins and to grow, then that's what we're going to do, you know, because we feel like we have a value add that we can provide, and we take a lot of pride in that, so that not having any private equity money is a big, big piece of why we don't have to slow down. And then we push each other hard. You know, everyone's like, what's your secret? What's your secret?
Well, my secret is I go out here on the floor every day and I ask somebody, why you didn't land any customers last night, you know, or why is this account going down? Pick up the phone and call them, and let's set a meeting and go talk to them. You've got to be out there talking to your employees, and it's tough right now. I've got a new building being built next door. So I've got people in this building here. I've got 200 in another building. I've got 100 over in this building. So I hate it that we're so fragmented right now. We're within a mile and a half of each other. But come April of next year, they're going to be all next door. And I can't wait because I miss seeing a bunch of them.
So, yeah, you know, I love hearing this stuff, Sean, because, like, it, you know, and especially doing it bootstrapping. There's no private equity, there's no outside investment. It's just dollar in, dollar out. Like, that, to me is why I, like, I truly love what you guys do and what you guys have done because, like, that's like, what I'm setting out to do, right? Like, I'm setting out to go down that path. Like I say before every show, I'm looking to speak to others who have done what I'm looking to do. Like, Axel, as a whole, you as a leader, like, that's what I'm looking to do, man. And that's why I want people to see the value in this and people who are listening to this right now.
Like, and it's like, this is the type of leader and this is the type of organization that you want to work for, you know? Like, this is what I'm trying to emulate out there. And it's also, like, it's motivating to me because I'm like, no offense to you guys, but I'm like, if you guys can do it, I can do it, you know? And it's just a matter of time, you know? And that's what one thing that I say a lot is, hey, the only difference between me and my goals is the time it's going to take me to get there. And that's it. And that doesn't come without struggle. That doesn't come without uncertainty. That doesn't come without any of that. But here's what it does.
Guarantee for me is if somebody else can do it in four years, five years, six years, I can do it in three years, you know, like, that's what those opportunities are out there. And it is about just following that, in my opinion, that one truck at a time mentality. Because if you gotta, if you learn from it, whether it's a good opportunity, bad opportunity, it doesn't matter. It's an opportunity to get better. It's an opportunity to improve. It's a, it's an opportunity to put a better product out there internally, externally, whatever way you want to spin this, because, you know, there's so much opportunity inside of this industry.
And I think that the companies that do it the right way, like, I wouldn't be surprised, Sean, in the next couple of years if you guys are five, 6 billion the way that you guys are. Because I think when the market turns, when things flip and customers are like, hey, I need other providers now, man. You guys are going to be at the top of most people's list out there. Like my goal is when that happens is where I'm going to go from. My organization is essentially going to go from zero to 100 million in probably a 15 month period because all that work, all those people are going to start calling our number like hey, lets go. And then were going to be hiring 100 people a week and stuff like that.
100%, man, you just got to make it happen. The key is say yes and then figure it out, right. And weve done that and its cost us a lot of money because we had to figure it out and it cost us a lot more than we thought it would. But that's just part of the game, right? We want to be the, we want to be on the top that, you know, but if we don't get there, it's not a big deal. We just want to be the company that people value. We want people that want to work hard for us. You know, in the end it's like, yeah, rankings great, but at the same time we just want to be like the first on everyone's mind. It's like I tell it back, you know, talk about cold call pitches, right? Here's my pitch.
You should be getting three things this year, right? Just give me 1 minute. You should be getting three things. You should be getting a competitive price, the best communication you've ever seen in your entire life in the logistics industry, right. And the best service. You should not have any of your freight being rolled. They should be picking up on time, delivering on time. If you have claims, it should be resolved, no questions asked. If you're getting these three things then now it's probably not a time for us to have a conversation and I'm okay with that. I just want to be the first on your mind when something pops up and you need us. Right.
But then if you're not getting one of these three things, let's set a time two weeks from now or one week from now or I'll fly out and come and see you. Let's just set a time to sit down and have a conversation. Whether it's about freight or something else internally that you need help with, you know, let's just talk and that's it. And it's very straightforward. You either need me or you don't. And I'm not going to annoy the daylights out of you know, and just turn around and keep cold calling you. But I do want to be the top of your mind. I want any person that's out there working in this industry as we need more experienced people. I want, you know, who do I want to work for in this world?
You know, I thought the same thing when I was back at Robinson. In the days, I was like, man, I would love to work for this company or this company, you know, but now I want to be that company that people want to come work for, you know? But, you know, and what's funny is you and I are sitting here talking, and I meant to say this earlier, there's a lot of freight out there today. You know, I made this comment to you, I think, at Tia, but, like, I don't get to a lot of shows because I travel to make revenue and relationships with our customers and shippers and try to continue to grow the business.
So I don't get to get out as much as I want, but I miss it because I love talking to other brokers because I don't mind helping them out. There's so much freight out there for everybody. If you can get another broker to say, hey, you know what? We want to be this way, and we're going to change our shitty attitude to become this way, then do so, because it's also going to help us. It helps your image as a broker. So I love the fact that you do this, and there are others out there that also have some other podcasts that do it that I haven't spoken to. But it's like, you know, we all care and we all want to help each other and we grow and, you know, this is the best way to do it, you know?
Yeah, dude, I'm right there with you, Sean. I think, like, you know, I had my friends at denim, they do factoring in stuff for the brokerage industry.
They know me well.
Oh, yeah, you guys. Yeah. So they, you know, they're. They're long time supporters of my show. And I, you know, we started doing a financial Friday with them once a month where they come on and, you know, again, help people understand cash flow, better financial planning for the future. And, you know, they had brought up on there where it was, there was like, it's like $170 billion that is available in for hire freight brokerage. That's what it was in off of the 2023 numbers that were out there. And Sean Smith of denim had said on my show, he's like, this last year in 2023 was the first year since, I think I forget what year that the top 100, their market decreased off of that overall number.
So that just shows you that there is growth that is out there and you can continue to grow in any market because again, like $170 billion market. Like, I don't know anybody out there who would look at it and be like, damn, man, I don't like only being worth having a billion dollar company, you know, like that. That doesn't exist, you know? But I believe in the, I want better, not bigger. I really like the chick fil a model of things. I'm actually really getting into studying that organization as a whole.
Did you see that video of the old owners or the owners of Axel? Like an old video? It's like they almost were embarrassed when I first started at Axel in 2016. There's a YouTube video, John and Drew speaking, and they're like, we're the chick fil a of logistics.
That's awesome.
And it's hilarious that you said that. That's why I started laughing, because they're like, man, we should have said that.
Like, but chick fil a is the gold standard, Sean. They really are. You name a, they have the best product that's out there. You're not going to change my mind. They have the best chicken sandwiches that, that are out there. But the service that you receive there is top tier. I've never experienced that. Even if they had subpar food, I would still go there over everywhere else because of the customer service and everything that they provide out there. And I was listening to a something, I forget what podcast it was on, but they talked about the chick fil a model. They talked about how they went. They went better, not bigger. And then it got to the point where bigger became inevitable because they were that much better than everybody else out there.
So it's like, I think, like in other industries, you know, these success leaves clues, man. And I think, like, if you focus on the product that you're putting out there to your customers and your carriers and really your three pillars of your cold calls. Now, if you can provide top tier service and top tier communication, price will inevitably become secondary over time. And people are going to want to work with you over your competition repeatedly because of that hundred percent.
No, that's great. It's, it's just getting everyone to think on the same page right under our umbrella. It's like we preach it day in and day out. And what I've learned is that repetitiveness is key within teaching our employees to be the same way. I agree with you. It's like chick fil a they have the nicest employees. They're always smiling. They've got a down pat, you know? And we want to have the same thing. We want politeness. When you pick up the phone, we want you to handle issues quickly, resolve problems, but do it with a smile. Have fun. It's just part of it. And it's just, if you don't have fun doing it, then don't do it, because it can be tough and it'll wear you down. But, yeah, it's very important.
Nah, I love it, man. Sean, thank you so much for your time. I know you're busy and you got other stuff to do out there, man. But if you guys are hiring, how does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you guys got going on?
No, if you go to axelogistics.com, there's a careers part of our website. We have a. We have a long funnel. We're hiring, and we're just trying to slow it down so we can control the training a little bit better and make sure that we're promoting correctly internally. And it's a credible grade model, which people say, you can't be this big around crowded grade. Right. So it's credit to grade model. So you've got to be able to sell, you got to be able to manage, and you got to be able to operate. You know, we've. We kind of slowed it down so we can reevaluate the training process a little bit more. But, yeah, right on our website, there's, you know, plenty of opportunity out there.
And then, you know, a lot of people reach out through LinkedIn to me all the time, and I'm not the one that you can always. You can do it, but I can't promise you I'll get to it in the next two weeks.
Yeah, I love it, man. And for some reason, if you guys can't find axeful, hit me up. I will gladly put you guys in contact with them over there. But if you guys made it this far in the episode, and I I know that you did, and you're not subscribed and you got value, subscribe to the show. You guys share it out there. Dear network, because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.