Guest: G. Edward Griffin - Exposing The Blueprint of Control: From Jekyll Island to CBDCs

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Here are your hosts, Jason Bassler, Matt Agarist, and Don Vyde Jr. Hello again, Freethinkers. Welcome back to the Freethought Project podcast. My name is Jason Bassler, and joining me is the Freethought Project Editor-in-Chief, Matt Agarist. We also have TFTP Editor and Writer Don Vyde Jr. joining us again. Well, guys, we have quite the show lined up today, and I'm truly excited to dive into this one.

Our guest is someone we've wanted to have on the show for years now, and I've probably been a bit of a nuisance over the past couple years bugging his staff, but we finally have him here joining us, and we're super pumped about it.

But first, Freethinkers, just two quick announcements. First off, I just want to remind our listeners that my one-hour Know Your Right seminar is now live, and the first class is coming up this Wednesday the 9th. Now, there's still spots available, So if you're thinking about it, now is the time. But if you can't make this week's seminar, no worries. I'll be doing another class in exactly two weeks, which is the 23rd. But you can sign up for the July night class now at JasonBassler.com.

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Also, if you're feeling generous, please leave a review. That helps us greatly get this podcast into more people's ears. And one last thing, guys, if you enjoy this podcast and the work we do at thefreethoughtproject.com, you can donate and subscribe to help us continue this important work at thefreethoughtproject.com. And there you'll see a tab at the top for membership. Okay, well, I know we throw around the title legend maybe a little too often, and I'm certainly guilty of that myself.

But today, guys, we have a true legend, an original truther, the OG godfather of all godfathers. His work has undoubtedly shaped the way millions of people think about power, money, and the hidden forces behind global events. He's the author of the groundbreaking book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, which sparked the truth freedom movement to sound the alarm to the dangers of the Federal Reserve.

Now, he's done numerous high profile interviews with notable figures and has spent decades writing about topics that others wouldn't touch. He's produced and narrated a number of documentaries and is the founder of the Red Pill Expo, which we'll be talking about today. But I'm definitely going to have to stop there because it would take the rest of the show to list all of his accomplishments. but our guest today, guys, is G. Edward Griffin.

Thank you so much for joining us today, sir. It's certainly an honor to have you on the show. Oh, thank you for inviting me. I love hearing those introductions because it sort of makes me puff up a little bit. Oh, after all, I'm here for a reason. Yeah, I've been around for a long time. They say even a broken clock is right twice a day. So if you can just hang in there for enough years, you're bound to produce something of note. And I think that is what happens.

Oh, well, yeah, far too modest. And yeah, you've been certainly right about a number of things, all of which we're hoping to talk about today. But, you know, as I joked around about there in the intro, our interview today is a testament, guys, to the squeaky wheel approach. And even though it might have been a bit annoying, it definitely works. So we're definitely elated to have you on and to be speaking with you. But there's so many things to talk about.

You know, we want to dive into a number of things today, maybe touching on both some of your past work and current events.

But first, as someone who has really been at the forefront of this movement, you know, to share these hidden truths and agendas, I wanted to start with a question that looks at like a broader view, because your book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, was published New Year's Day in 1994. And back then, the US national debt was $4.6 trillion. And now, a couple weeks ago, the national debt just crossed $37 trillion. So that's $108,000 debt for every taxpayer.

And on top of that, Trump is calling for a $1 trillion military spending budget for 2026. So it looks like things are only increasing to look kind of grim. They're not looking very promising. So I have two questions here. Maybe we could touch on a little light and a little dark. Where do you see the U.S. headed economically by the end of Trump's presidency? Are we on a big crash course for financial reckoning? But then on the flip side, like, you know, you've been doing this for so long.

Are you happy to see, you know, where the progress and the end of that movement has gone? And maybe with help from people like Ron Paul compared to back, say, in like the mid nineties. Okay. Well, that's a question that often comes up. And I think all the pundits on the air have their opinions on it, but they're variables pretty much over the central opinion that yes, we are headed for the tank. It's going downhill.

It can't get much worse. We've been saying that for a long time, so we're wrong on that point. But we do know that we're right that it's not getting any better, and there's no theoretical reason to believe that we're going to come out of this hole. In one piece. So I'm no different than anybody else on that. I haven't yet heard any sane person say, oh, everything is fine in the economic world.

We can just keep borrowing money from ourselves and agree to pay back what we borrow from ourselves, pay it back to the guys that spent it, plus interest. That'll work. What could possibly go wrong with that? And we can keep increasing the debt and not paying it back. And the debt gets bigger and bigger and bigger and prices keep going up and the value of the dollar keeps going down and down and down and down. What could be wrong with that?

So you have to be out of your mind not to realize that, yeah, this has got to come to an end. It's just a question of when. And I've been very good at predicting what's going to happen, fortunately. I think the reason for that is because I read the literature of the people who are doing these things. And they're usually, you know, they have some arcane sources where they talk to each other and they don't expect the public to be listening in.

You read their books, for example, and the transcripts of their seminars and so forth, and their old things that they've said and they've never changed their position on. And you can figure out what they really are thinking, even though they don't always say it openly. So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to be able to make a prediction in the world today. If you open your eyes and are objective to what you hear and see.

If you reject the things that you don't want to hear, well, you're not going to have a good record. But if you accept the things even that you don't want to hear, the things that upsets you and say, well, this is the way it really is, it's easy to project the future.

And the formula is pretty simple. If you mentally just draw a graph in your mind of where we were, let's say, 100 years ago or 50 years ago, pick your point, and see where we are today, and you draw a line between those two points, it's headed in a certain direction. And then if you can theorize that, well, is there any change going to be made in the forces that created that line and that motion, you can predict without fear of making a mistake.

You say, well, unless something drastically different happens in the forces on that line, it's going to continue moving in the same direction. It's going now. And so you project that out, and that's your prediction. And by golly, unless the forces change, which they seldom do. You come out like a genius. You figured it out. It's a very simple formula, actually. But the problem there is that people don't want to accept what they see. It's unpleasant. They think this is so horrible.

That projection can't be possible. I don't want to believe that. And only extremists and idiots would have such a negative point of view. And so they talk themselves out of being realistic. It's not hard to predict if you open your mind and accept the bad along with the good.

So to answer your question, how I see the economy in the future is that it's going to continue on the line that it's been following since, oh, I'm going to say since the Civil War and probably getting up to speed about that time. And by the time we come into World War I, it's really revved up. And at World War II, it's out of control. And now we're ballistic. The graph is no longer a curve. It's a straight line up, practically. And so you don't have to be a genius to see where that's headed.

But the difference in my prediction is not on how long it goes before it pops, the big pop. And everybody suddenly realizes that their money doesn't buy anything. And that like in the Weimar Republic in Germany years ago, the money was not even... It's only primary value was to burn in the furnaces in the cold weather because it produced heat. The paper currency had some value as fuel, and that was all it was.

And it wasn't long before that point where inflation, as we call it, inflation had gone so far out of whack that every day the workers had increases in their pay. Because the rate of inflation was going so great that you had to increase their wages every day in order to keep up with the cost of the groceries in the store. A loaf of bread might double in price in a day. And so they often paid their workers twice a day.

And sometimes they would take their money that they got in the morning and run home with it, give it to their wives and run back to work. And their wives would then run to the grocery store and spend the money while it still had that value, because the next day would only be about half of its value.

Well, you know, that's the end of the line. And that has happened numerous times throughout history. And it's a simple, simple thing to understand. You keep producing money with no limitations whatsoever. Just keep producing it because you're the government. You can do whatever you want to, and you need the money and people are not paying their taxes. So you just create bloody stuff, you know, and then you distribute it to your friends and deny it to your enemies.

And you're still in charge until the whole thing goes pop. And then what? Well, now, usually that ends up in some kind of a dictatorship. Complete collapse of society and martial law and all these things because everything goes absolutely crazy. There's no such thing as laws anymore. No such thing as a constitution anymore. It's just about survival. And those who have the power, those who have the guns, are the ones making the decision.

That's where these things always end. And so now the question is, are we going to end up that way? Well, I have an answer that might surprise you. I'm going to say no. What? How can he grip? No. He just said it's inevitable. But now let me explain. I think we're not going to end up that way.

I think we're going to end up worse than that way. Oh, shit. Yeah. And here's why I say that. For as long as I can remember, there was a slogan that everybody accepted as true. And that is, there is nothing new under the sun. And that seemed to work because everything I thought of that was genius, you know, I just had a great idea. I found out later that I was a thousand years late on this idea.

The great philosophers of history, all the experiments, political experiments during history, everything you can think of has been done and tried and tested and worked out. You just didn't know about it. And so I came to be a believer in that motto that everything under the sun, that there's nothing new under the sun, rather. But now I've changed my mind. There is something new under the sun. And I'm hearing the leaf blower outside my door here. Maybe that's new.

That wasn't there 100 years ago, for sure. And that's new. A leaf blower is new under the sun.

Not today, but not long ago. Well, what else is new today? And it relates to the same thing as the leaf blower. The leaf blower is technology. It's a discovery of gasoline engines and how to distill oil into gasoline and how to make things go whir and buzz saws and all that get power out of gasoline out of the ground. Well. That wasn't always with us in prehistoric times, but it's with us now.

So technology is always changing. And we have arrived a new age, I believe, in technology, where we are in a position that something exists now that never existed before. And we're referring to that now as a technocracy or technology. And, you know, AI comes to mention, but it's not only AI. It's all kinds of technical advances in hardware. And even in software, because when I say software, I'm talking about ideas,

they're really software, because I say they, who are they? I'm just going to call it the cabal for the moment. The guys we don't like, the guys that are working against us, let's just call them the cabal. We can come back to that later and maybe get a little bit more refined in it. But there is a small group of people in the world, very small compared to the total population, that really don't like us very much. And they expect that our best role in existence on this planet is to serve them.

And they deserve to be our rulers and masters. And that's what it's all about. It's them against us. And they are very small in numbers. And we are very large in numbers. Large numbers used to be somewhat of a safeguard because their weapons that we had for self-defense were pretty much the same weapons that the cabal had for aggressive military action or control.

It was just muskets, you know. Everybody had muskets. Now, some had more muskets than others, but if you had influence and enough money, you could get those muskets. And in the American Revolution, for example, it was a question of how many muskets were there? How many soldiers had muskets and ammo? And the British didn't have much of an advantage over the colonists because they had their muskets and they knew how to make powder and ammo and so forth.

So it was pretty much even. It was just a question of numbers. Well, today that's not true. Here comes that leaf blower. I know you can hear that. Yeah, I can hear that. So I'm glad it came up because it's an illustration of what I'm talking about. Today we have AI. My gosh. And we have not only the technology itself in terms of hardware and computerized software, but when I say software, the real software, I'm talking about ideas. It's not that leaf blower. It's an idea.

The science of psychology didn't really exist to any extent. To any extensive amount 200 years ago or 100 years ago. It started to be developed 100 years ago. But that's where Freud and all these others got on the scene, started to think about how you can control the thoughts and the emotions and the feelings and the attitudes and the opinions of other people by manipulating words and stimuli.

And it was a way of controlling people through their own minds rather than with muskets and daggers and bayonets and bombs. It was a way of controlling people to get them to go along with it themselves, to convince them that it was in their own best interest to do what you want them to do. So that is new under the sun. And the last hundred years, it's been advanced terribly. And right now we know that there's a lot of science involved in how to engineer public opinion.

And now we've got AI at work, and now we're talking about microbots being injected into our bodies and into our bloodstream and into our brains that act like antennas that respond to electrical stimuli that you put out through these cell towers, and everybody's getting these stimuli, and they don't know what it means, and it's not on their cell phones. It's in their brains now. And all of a sudden, they go crazy, or they have a certain emotion, or they become passive, or all these things.

Now, this is new under the sun. Now, I took too long to say all that, but once you get focused on that idea that there is this psychological factor and the biological factor, too, because they're denying us the unwashed masses. They're denying us, to the extent possible, of the nutrition that we need to think properly, to make good decisions.

They're denying us the education, the knowledge, the factual information that we need in order to come to proper judgments of what is workable and what is not workable, what is new, what is old. They're manipulating our environment. They're manipulating our input of information, the input of nutrition. They're putting toxins on. And they're sending leaf blowers around your house. Oh, my God. Wouldn't you know this would happen just when we started? Anyway, it will go away, they say.

Now it's gone for a moment. Okay, so all of this is new. That's the only point I'm trying to make. And when you focus on that for a little while, you realize that this is now part of that equation of where are we headed? We didn't have a mental chart that we could even draw a straight line on because those elements didn't exist until fairly recently in history. And now the advances are so rapid in the field of AI and biological manipulation of the brain and brain.

And even electrical stimuli of the brain, frequencies, signals, and so forth. All of this is advancing so rapidly now, it's hard to even draw a straight line unless it's straight up.

So, okay, having said all that, what I think worries me the most is not that straight line that we always relied upon, but the fact that the direction of the line has changed almost into a vertical climb, And it's not based on the usual elements of physical control, who has the most muskets or who has the biggest bomb or who has the secrets and so forth. It's now a question of who controls the communication system that feeds information or filters information to the masses, to us masses.

We get our information whether we like it or not through channels that we have no control over anymore or very little control and we know who's in control of those channels it's the cabal and so their filtering had been filtering the information that we get very successfully and that's. And then, of course, they've infiltrated our other means of communication and education, primarily. It's not just the radio and the television and the Internet.

It's the school system, of course, and even the churches. Our enemy, our cabal, has figured out all the choke points for information sources, and I just mentioned them. And they have been working for decades and certainly maybe a couple of hundred years, gaining control over those institutions and those channels of communication and food supply and environmental control. They've been working on this, guys, and you know it. I think everybody has a sense it's been true.

They've been working on it for over 100 years. This is an intergenerational project. It's not just something they want to see in their lifetime. This cabal has long-range plans. They think of themselves as kind of an elitist category, a big family or a tribe or something. And by the way, I don't think it's bloodline. I don't think it's racial. I don't think it's religious. It's people who believe in that they have a right to control and dominate and

master all the rest of this and so forth. So that's their common denominator. We might want to talk about that a bit later on, about what is that denominator? What is the common thing that is to all of them? And it might surprise people to see what I think about that.

But anyway, I want you to establish the point. I'm not talking about the Catholics versus the Protestants or the Jews against the Christians or the blacks against the whites or the males against the females or the northerners against the southerners or the Chinese against the Americans. I mean, all these divisions that they throw at us, so we fight among ourselves, is what they have to do as part of their strategy in order to divide us.

Otherwise, if we ever got all together, the question of numbers would become very, very important. But if they can divide us up into all these little factions where we're all suspicious of each other and fighting against each other and pointing the finger at each other, you're the guy that's responsible for this. And we fall back to this question of who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. And then we never worry about who defines what is good or bad, except that's our definition.

We don't even have principles anymore. And when I say we, I mean the general public is not allowed to have principles. You never hear principles being discussed in the news. You never hear principles being discussed in school. It's always who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. So you just choose up sides, you know. Maybe it's communists, the good guys, or maybe it's the anti-communists. Or what about the fascists or the Nazis or the socialists and so forth?

Pick your choice. They all are the same, basically. So no matter which one you pick, you're on the losing side as far as you're concerned.

Okay, now having said all of that, what is in store for us in the future, especially relating to the economy? Back to the main track. The economy, I think, is so obviously in destruction mode that nobody, even the cabal, thinks they can hide that fact from the mass population. It's obvious. Everybody knows it. They sense it. A kindergarten child can figure out the mathematics on this. You can't keep adding marbles to the cigar box until the cigar box is full. It won't take any more.

We're down to that kind of analysis. It's obvious to everybody. So what do these people do about it? There's one thing you have to give them credit for. They're very shrewd, and they think long into the future. It's not a day-by-day decision process. I'm sure they have buildings full of strategists and people who think about the what-if-then-what project. They're writing scenarios of what to do if certain things happen,

just like they do in the military. That's a very important function in the military. If we attack from the north, then what would they do? What are the three or four things our enemy would do in response? And then what will we do if they do any one of those four responses? And then what will they do if we do in source? They actually work out these scenarios so that nothing, literally nothing ever happens that is a surprise. And this is a fact. So when you think about that, and most people don't,

they just think our opponents are stumbling along like we are. Oh, what's news? What's news today? No, these guys are writing the news. They know what's news today, or they know what it would be, one of the three choices. So what would you do if you were around that board of directors table of the cabal? And they say, well, America is now, or the world, has come to the point where the monetary system, our monetary system of fiat money has come to the point

where it's destroying itself. It can't go much further. We can force it a little bit further, but it's going to go pop really big. And we, of course, you know, guys, we're in the past. The Great Depression in the 30s and the 1920s and so forth, we popped it ourselves because we knew it was going to pop, and we just picked the time, so we were able to benefit from it. Now, we could do that this time, but don't you think it's a little bit different?

Maybe we should do something more than just benefiting from the pop and then rebuilding the same structure. So they decided that they're going to destroy the system themselves because it's dead anyway, and everybody knows it's dead. So why do you try and keep it going? Wouldn't it be much better to convert it into something even more effective for the cabal? For you, if you were a cabal member, you'd be looking for something even better, wouldn't you? Well, what would that be?

They have told us long ago what it would be. These people, let's call them the international banking fraternity, that's always been about big, big, big money, the banking system, who creates credit, who creates the money, who holds power with the money and so forth. So you would know that if that system was going to crash anyway, and you still want to remain in control of everything, you've got to come up with a new monetary system, don't you?

You're not going to wait until it crashes and then see what happens. No.

You're going to say, okay, it's coming to an end, and we will decide when to end it because we control the media. We'll announce it when it happens, and then the people will believe it. If it happens and we didn't announce it, we'll convince them it didn't happen in the first place because they'll always believe the weather that they hear on the radio than the one that they see out the window. So they know that it can control, to a certain point, public opinion about these things.

So anyway, they're going to say, we're going to create a new monetary system. What would that be? Well, digital? Crypto? Maybe? Why, they've always said, for as long as I can remember, it's that issue being discussed in the history books, the banking fraternity has spoken of the desire to create a cashless society. The banks have always dreamed and longed for a cashless society. Why would that be? Cash is their inventory. Cash is what they make money on. They earn interest on loans.

And if you don't have cash, you can't loan anything. So how would the banks make money if they had a cashless society? Nobody asked that question. Well, is it because this gets a little hard to understand, but I'll try and make it really simple. It is simple. It's because cash, you know, the old saying, power and money are the big evils in the world. Power and money. And I find myself saying that too. It's just convenient. And we've said it so

many times, it just rolls off the tongue. Power and money. Money and power. Well, it's really power, folks. It's because the only reason people want money is because it gives them power. With money, you can employ, you can obtain the services of other human beings. And the more money you have, the more services you can command. And if you own all of the money, then you command all of the services. But money is just another way of saying power, power over other human beings.

And in so far in history, money has been the instrument by which you can convert that one thing into power over other human beings. Now, if you take money away from the equation, what's left? Just power. OK, now we're back to guns and bayonets. Yeah, but what happens now in the new era that we're in, where we have control over everything, the way people think even, their food supply, the water supply, the information, their opinions, even controlling what they think, you know?

Put them in prison if they make a bad statement or hurt somebody's feelings, according to them. So, what would be the source of power then? Well, you have something that looks like money, but it's not money. and it's called digits. What's a digit? Well, it's what digital currency is based upon. Yeah, I know that. But I asked, what is a digit? Well, a digit is a unit of measurement. Okay, what are we measuring? Well, we're measuring how many digits.

In other words, it's one of those things, it is what you say it is.

If you're controlling the digital monetary system, You control the number of digits And that is just the same thing as controlling the number of dollars or pennies in a monetary system But it's no longer something you can put into your pocket At least in the present corrupt monetary system You can put things in your pocket You can stuff money into your mattress You can put it in a coffee can and bury it in your backyard And all that sort of thing It's your money Money has always been personal

property or property of corporations. Money has always been property, which means it can be possessed by someone or something. But once it goes digital, it cannot be possessed.

It exists as long as the electricity is on on your computers.

And then if the power goes out it's gone and if the power comes back on it might maybe it might still be there probably will be but if the power goes out it's all it's gone again you cannot possess it you cannot you cannot store it you cannot have access to it because it's controllable and that's the magic word in the new monetary system that these people have planned for us which is worse than the old one is a monetary system which is controlled by these people so that you don't own it,

they own it, and you are allowed to use it at their largesse only, only as long as you are pleasing them and following their rules and not opposing them in any serious way, you can survive because you will be allowed certain digits for as long as you obey the rules. But the minute you start to criticize, that would be me, I'm ahead of that line. I'm very clear. If I don't like something, I'll say so. But that would be a death knell in the new system.

You couldn't even raise an eyebrow at some politician that said something that was absolutely crazy and off the wall. If you just look like you didn't believe it, they've got a camera on you and they'll read your facial expression and they'll say, that man has to be punished.

He has to be taught not to be so critical of our great and glorious leaders or our great glorious ai uh you know oh man yeah so that's that's what i mean by it's because it can be and they want it to be worse than it is now well i i don't doubt that and we can see it in all their acts you know pushing for these global wars that could just set the whole planet into maybe an unrecoverable chaotic situation that you know lasts for decades luckily we haven't gotten to that point yet, right?

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So I want to get into it, right? So, yes, the digital surveillance grid ties to money. And those who control the money can control basically everything. We see it in China with their social credit scores. And we're going to see it here, too. I don't doubt about it. And then we had Trump run on, you know, his campaign about ending the central bank digital currencies. And basically, they just did the bait and switch, right? with stable coins in the crypto.

And after they've hijacked Bitcoin, we just see stable coin after stable coin. The Senate just passed the Genius Act last month. They are 100% making a move to control the entire economy with their digital dollar. But, and it's a big but here, on that same token, right?

You mentioned it was equal playing field back in the day during the Revolutionary War where, you know, you had bayonets affixed, they had bayonets affixed, they had better weapons, you just got a better weapon. I do see that playing out a little bit in this monetary battle that we find ourselves in currently. And that has to do with privacy coins, right? Like there's these privacy coins like Monero, Zano and others. And they're not just these crypto projects, right?

These are the next rebellion. This is, this is our tool. This is our bayonets against the British's bayonets that we can. It's essentially like a lock on our home of Liberty, right? They let individuals transact free of big brothers, crying eyes, and they keep the spirit of true monetary freedom. Yes, it's digital, but that's the technology that we have to keep up with. If the founders would have thrown rocks at the people shooting guns at them,

they wouldn't have won, right? You have to level that playing field. So I guess my question is, so you spent this, you know, your entire life basically sounding alarm about this centralized power in the banking and you just very eloquently explained that. So how do you see, are you even familiar enough? Do you know, do you see that any of these privacy coins like fitting into our arsenal in this battle for liberty?

Like, can you think that they could help turn the tables on the surveillance state? Or do you think like that we're looking at yet another battlefield in a war we're just only beginning to understand? Well, a little bit of both, actually. I understand the concept on the stable coins, of course not, but on the privacy current cryptos. By the way, they're not so crypto unless they are a privacy type of coin. Anyway, the analogy I think is that those would be great, and the theory is excellent.

I mean, that's the theory we should have on the whole monetary system. But when the cabal literally controls the major channels of commerce, such as the banking system, how you exchange value from one person to the next person is easy if you go to the weekend where all the farmers come together, the farmer's market, and you transact face to face. It's great for that.

But when you want to buy a car or you want to buy an airplane ticket or a gallon of gas from an international gasoline company or something like that or pay rent or buy a house, major transactions or make an investment. Most of the money transactions are made, not in quantity, but in dollar value or value in terms of assets or labor. Those transactions will still be blocked. Yeah. By the cabal because the people in control of those organizations have been deliberately filtered over the years.

It's hard to find any large corporation where the board of directors is not loaded with cabal members. That's the way they worked it. They took these things over at the top. And so you would be able to carry out transactions for bread and maybe a bottle of wine or something or some services, carpentry services with your neighbors and your friends that you could walk to or visit.

You couldn't drive to them because you couldn't get any gasoline in your car because you couldn't use it to buy gasoline because Standard Oil is not accepting those tokens and things like that. So they would still have a clamp on the major channels of monetary exchange. So you might survive at some sort of primitive level, but this is not the solution. This is not the solution to our problem.

We've got to apply that kind of a principle universally, which means we've got to break the grip of the cabal. And we can't just say, we'll ignore these people that are running things and we'll find a way to survive. Maybe we can hide and they won't notice us. That seems to be the thinking. And everybody is thinking defensively of how they survive, not of how they win.

And believe me, in my opinion, I came to this a long time ago, We are not going to survive Unless we win So I'm not saying people shouldn't. Put food in their pantry, grow food in their backyard, get gold and silver at some place that you could exchange with other people on survival food and things like that. But if we don't win this battle for our liberty and recapture control of our political system, there is no survival. We have to face that ugly fact. Nobody wants to face that.

And I'm tired of hearing people talking about how are we going to survive and oh it's going to happen anyway you know how how do we survive that's good but don't stop there we've got to survive or otherwise we can't fight and when i say fight i'm not talking about guns and and battles in the street although there might be some of that but we won't start it they will because that is an excuse to to send out the tanks for us yeah i'm talking

about fighting to control the power centers of society you're. If you're with a corporation, yeah, work on the board of directors. But especially in your community, you want the city council members under your influence. You want the mayor. You want the board of education. You want the sheriff's office. We've got to rebuild this system from the bottom up, not from the top down. People say, well, who are you going to vote for? Like, that was the solution.

No, it's not who you're going to vote for. Because all the people you're going to vote for, most of them, have been selected by the cabal.

And they're smart enough to give you a choice between left and right and you think you've got a choice between Democrats and Republicans because they tell you you have a choice and they fight each other they gem each other and you think oh this is a good wrestling match but they're both owned by the same company the same they're both have the same trainers they're both the same team, and they put on a good wrestling match and you're supposed to choose which one

you want to depend on for your survival that's not a choice ladies and gentlemen not a choice. Right. And, you know, so that brings home a very, you know, important point, because I'm sure, you know, you're familiar with another one of our colleagues, Derek Brose. And Derek has been doing a lot of work talking about opting out of the technocratic state and exit and build and, you know, all these very important things.

But to your point, it does raise a solid question of how do we win, particularly in regard of the central ideology of statism.

I'm very much politically an ardent anarchist. I don't believe in the existence of a state. I don't believe in top-down hierarchical systems because they're inherently exploitive and oppressive to the rights of the individual person. And I think if we look at the history of humanity, these 6,000 years, give or take, that organized human civilization has existed. Never once do we see a top-down hierarchical collectivist system that benefits the individual.

At some point, the individual or marginalized groups of individuals tend to suffer from the systems that are put in place. And so obviously, yeah, you know, opting out of these sort of systems are very important. But, you know, beyond that, I'd say essentially what...

Really is, in your view, in your opinion, the way that we incorporate those kind of strategies, not to just run and hide and hope they don't notice us, but to also use that not only defensively, but offensively as a sort of peaceful revolution, or I prefer to say an evolution, because the etymology of that word revolution has always stuck in my craw because we look at the etymology of revolution, revolve, evolve continuing to go in a cycle this

you know that continues to repeat itself when you know to break the cycle you need to evolve past it beyond it so in your opinion like what what do we do and how do we incorporate those aspects to do that to create something new or whatever it is to win against these Kabbalic figures. I'm sure glad you brought that up because I consider that to be the genesis of the whole problem is the conceptualization of what a system should be.

We just go from epoch to epoch, from the various early pages of history through what you just said. We always have the great leader And usually that's in the early days, that was the military leader because you had to overpower your opponent physically. Otherwise, you were not a leader. There was no such thing as a ballot box except on the battlefield. And that's how it started. Well, there's a certain element to that concept in the most primitive form. It's that might makes right.

And we may not like that idea. and we're taught in school that that's a horrible thing to say or to believe in. But to a very real extent, it's true. Might does make right. That doesn't mean that we like it. What is the right that is created? The idea behind it is that nobody seems to challenge what you do with that right. For example, how shall I say this? It is true that throughout history, we've always gone from one despotism to another.

Mankind has overthrown tyranny after tyranny after tyranny at great cost in treasure and blood. And it's always been to replace the tyrant with another tyrant, one that they liked, one that they thought would be a fair tyrant, would be a good tyrant, be good for their own benefit, be a good man, not a bad man. Never, never in history until the American Revolution, and possibly with an inkling in the French Revolution a little bit,

but never seriously has the idea ever been advanced. Well, how could we make it different? The short answer to the question is why has it always been that way? Is that because we've never tried it any other way? No one except those guys, recognize those colonialists who created the American Constitution. To my knowledge and reading of history, nobody seriously ever tried to do anything else. So we didn't do any better because we never tried to do anything any better.

Even in George Washington's case in the American Revolution, they won the battle in the revolution and they wanted to make him King George, our own King George, because that's the way it was always done. You got to have a king. Well, you won the war. We won the war. So now who's our king going to be? And this is the thinking. This is the thinking that infects our movement today. Well, we've just, we don't like our collectivist government today. We don't like this tyranny that we've got.

So let's create another one that we don't like. And put good men in positions, you know, not those bad guys, But put the good guys in No discussion about principles Could you make it any different If you really tried. The Founding Fathers tried for the first time, seriously. There was a little touch of it that showed up in the Magna Carta, but that was primarily an issue between the king and the nobles. It didn't affect the common man very much. But the we the people concept came up.

It was spoken in terms of that as the French Revolution, but it was not that in the French Revolution. It only became that in the American Revolution for the first time in history. And they made a pretty good beta model out of it. It lasted for, what, 150 years pretty much as an individualistic society. Collectivism was never mentioned by name, which was a mistake. I don't think they even thought about it too much as that.

But in principle, the American Constitution was a statement of things that the majority shall not do. Nobody had ever before talked about questioning what the majority had a right to do. The concept of democracy, pure democracy, and the basic idea is that the majority can do whatever it damn well wants to do because it's the majority. And we're back to might makes right again.

So if we take that might makes right concept from the battlefield and put it into the debate for human rights and so forth, it's still the same concept. The only difference is you have to vote your way into power rather than fight your way into power. But you always got to have the guns and the muskets behind you just in case your opposition doesn't want you to do that, whether you got the votes or not. So there's that crossover point always. But my point is this.

We never tried, except in the American Revolution, and we're certainly not trying it today.

We're not trying to create a system that's better than anarchy. Anarchy, by the way, I don't want to get too off track on this, but anarchy, I don't think, is the ideal system because it really is the ultimate tyranny in disguise. Under pure anarchy, real anarchy, it's always the one, the biggest muscle, the biggest fist, or the most weapons that rules with absolute uncontested power.

Anarchy is always the worst form of tyranny, even though in theory it means there's no government but in theory it actually means there's the worst government because it's those with the greatest power and it's you know into the truck sort of thing we're here we got the guns that's anarchy, but now could we make something other than anarchy what about a government well wait a minute we used the word government did we make a mistake there I think

we made a huge mistake I think it was a mistake made by our founding fathers to use the word government. Why? What's wrong with the word government? Well, what does that word mean? It means to govern. A government means the group of people to govern. Do you know of anybody that wants to be governed? I don't. I don't. So who in the hell would vote for a government except if they weren't thinking of what it means? Kids in school have said, well, today our class is what kind of government is best.

That means, how do you want to be ruled under what best conditions you want to be ruled and be governed? Nobody wants to be governed by the state. The state is the correct word in my view. Nobody wants to be governed, but what do they want the state to do? I think uniformly, everybody wants the state to protect them, to protect their lives and their liberty against enemies who would steal their lives or kill them or make slaves of them.

And you can't just defend your property, have three sons on the rooftop while you sleep. You can't defend yourself against organized crime unless you get organized. And that's the danger. You get organized to defend yourself against organized criminals. And your organization, if you're not careful, turns into an organization of criminals.

Right. And, you know, I think that I, that reminds me really of this quote from one of my favorite 19th century philosophers, Lysander Spooner, who made the observation, I can't remember exactly, I think it was like in the 1830s, but it was sometime like just, just prior, like a decade or so before the Civil War. And Spooner wrote that of the Constitution, he said, the Constitution in its present form.

It has either permitted the government that we currently have or has been powerless to stop it and in either case was unfit to exist in the first place. And I think that's so poignant because it just drives home the point of really something that the founders themselves even talked about is what is the point of even trying to establish this thing if there aren't good men with good principles that are actually adhering to it? Without that, it's nothing but a piece of paper.

And they pointed that out themselves. And about 100 some odd years later, Spooner pointed that out as well. And golly gee, we compare what are the American society today as opposed to the 1830s as far as certain liberties. Obviously, during the 1830s, there was also, you know, rampant slavery and awful things happening there as well. But the point is the way that the government at least respected some people's rights, although they were unfortunately awfully trampling others.

Point being, like, it's just in that regard, they're completely unrecognizable. And so, you know, I think Spooner would sort of spin in his grave a thousand times if he saw, you know, what this government is doing now to everyone. Well, yes, and I love that point about wanting to be sure that only honorable men are in charge. That reminds me of that letter that Thomas Jefferson received from a friend of his who was a doctor shortly after the Constitution was ratified in Philadelphia.

And we know about this letter because it's in the Jefferson archives. And as I remember, the letter went something like this. Mr. Jefferson, now that we have this new, I think they used the word government, but let's just say, maybe he said, this system we have, the new constitutional republic, he should have said. How can we be certain that only good men are in positions of authority? And Jefferson's response, I think, is right to your point. It was beautiful.

It was a little bit sharp. You could tell he was controlling his temper. He said, let us not speak of good men in office. Rather, let us bind men down with the chains of the Constitution. And there is the answer to the whole thing. Jefferson had it nailed. Today, in today's vernacular, he would have said, good men in office, are you kidding me?

He had it. He understood it. There is no such thing as reliability for good men in office. And that's because any institution, whether it's governments or churches or corporations or any institution which has this concentration of huge amounts of wealth and power or influence over other people, Those institutions become magnets for the predator class.

Every crook, every suede shoe artist, con artist in the world longs to be in government service because they can commit their crimes and be immune. And they can put others who don't like them and try to expose them, they can put them in prison. So anybody that thinks that government has to be based on good men is making a huge mistake. It's impossible. We have to assume, as Jefferson did, that government is going to be loaded with criminally minded people.

And we must be very suspicious of them and not trust them. We must distrust them. That is our obligation. Once we say, oh, here's a man you can trust, whatever he says, we'll follow. You've lost it right there because you do not understand the basic human nature of this whole arrangement. Humans are longing for leaders, and they'll follow a strong leader that makes them feel that he will lead them out of the bushes.

But in many cases, if not most cases, these strong leaders are tyrants, or they want to be tyrants, or whether they know it or not, they will become tyrants if you give them the capability to become one. And so people who are looking for a strong leader on a white horse, who are you going to vote for in the White House? We can just get somebody in the White House. A strong leader. He'll forget the constitution. He'll just throw all the rules out of the books, off the books,

throw them out, and just get these bad people in prison. Now we'll be safe. They don't realize the next election around, they got a different leader. You just gave him the power to put you in prison. If they don't like you, you're now the bad person. People don't understand these things. That's why it's what I said earlier. This is a new era. People now must understand the rules of the game. we're in a war, And we have to study the little book by Sun Tzu called The Art of War.

Sun Tzu was a Chinese philosopher and military strategist that lived in the 6th century BC. And he wrote this treatise called The Art of War. They use that book in all the major war colleges today. All military officers, strategists know the works of Sun Tzu. And it's all in Sun Tzu's works. For example, I'll just give you an example. In today's world that we are in now, we're asked to trust somebody. And we have all kinds of people telling us that they're on our side. Well, are they?

Rule number one for Sun Tzu is that all warfare is based on deception. All warfare is based on deception. All right. If we're in a war, we have to be alert to the fact that the primary weapon of our enemy against us is deception. The second rule that Sun Tzu wrote about that applies to today, I think, it goes like this. He said, supreme excellence in warfare is to defeat your enemy without having to engage him in battle.

Think about that. How do you defeat your enemy without engaging them in battle? I think it really comes down to, and sort of my view on how we really do win, sort of circling back, is that it really comes to education, really. And it reminds me again of one of those other quotes from Thomas Jefferson, wherein he said something along the lines of an educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people.

And I think that just really hits the nail on the head to everything we've been discussing here. Like people who aren't educated about their rights, who don't know history, who don't know what's really going on in the fall and the way that these systems have been created, as opposed to the surface level kabuki theater, political, you know, smoke and mirrors.

Whereas, you know, once people actually are educated, they take that initiative to learn and realize, oh, this is what's actually happening. Oh, this is what we actually need to do. Well, yeah, sure. But the trick of all this is what is the education they get? Who determines, who gives the education? Yeah. Are they going to get education that teaches that America was based on racism and greed? Or are they going to get education that was based on the quest for freedom and

liberty, individualism? Those are both educations, you see. So it doesn't go deep enough just to say education. What kind of education? What are the principles? Let's talk about these bloody principles. Nobody wants to talk about the principles, you see. We use these mushy words that sound good but need to be defined. So now, but I want to just finish this little thing because when we hear Sun Tzu say, defeating your enemy without engaging him in battle.

Do we see that happening today in our world? We sure do. We sure do. We are being, for the first time, we're being allowed to discover how deep and wide, we are now controlled by the tyranny of the cabal. Up until fairly recently, they were trying to hide that. Now, they want us to know so that we will come to the position that, oh my goodness, they're everywhere. They're in the school system, they're in the military, they're in the police, they're in the media, they're in the churches.

It's over, we're defeated already. I want to go hide. I'll get my water supply and get my food and I'll hide and maybe they'll come and get me last. They don't want us to battle them they want us to in the vernacular of today like from star trek.

Resistance is futile that's what they want us to believe this is strategy it's like a chess game and people have to learn how to play the game because we're falling for the all the chess moves right now we're falling for all of these these rules of the warfare and we don't even know that there are rules.

You just made so many great points, Mr. Griffin. And, you know, we're hoping if you don't mind, if you have maybe another 15 minutes or so, we could keep wrapping here and get through the rest of this. But, you know, our friends on the right will probably suggest that you're maybe black-pilled or a doomer or whatever. But I feel like, you know, you have the credibility, you have the experience, you've been doing this for so long that you could see the writing on the wall.

And, you know, I don't think it has anything to do with having a negative outlook. No, this is realistic. This is not positive or negative. This is realism. Exactly. Well, I agree with your sentiments there, though. It does feel like a controlled demolition is very much underway. And with that demolition, it's kind of the end of the old guard paradigm.

Now we're kind of being ushered into this new digital transformation with the technocrats and the Elon Musks and Sam Altmans and all these types of people. And you did a very important interview with Yuri Bezmanov years ago, a KGB defector, turned into a journalist. And, you know, he talked about so many different things.

He outlined the stages like demoralization, destabilization, crisis, and normalization, much like the problem-solution-reaction paradigm that our audience is definitely familiar with. And I had to ask this, you know, I had to bring that up just because it was something that our audience really wanted to talk to you about. But kind of intertwining it with what you were just saying, you know, you were talking about we don't need just strategies to be on the defensive.

We also need strategies to be on the offensive. And I feel like that's very much what we've been doing, at least here at the Free Thought Project and people like, yeah, Josh over at World Alternative Media and Dan Dix at Press for Truth.

And a lot of us have kind of picked up the mantle for this alternative journalism and really tried to do our best to move the ball forward with some of these philosophies, talking about principles, talking about where all this is going, trying to connect the dots for the masses. But then we ended up just being censored. And at one point, we were absolutely

thriving as an organization. We had a whole writing team of seven different writers, blah, blah, blah, reaching millions of people every week. And we had that all erased from us within a couple clicks of a mouse when both Facebook and Twitter took us down at the same time.

So with that said, if we fast forward to the last five years and consider the good with social media, the ground that we have made, but also some of the bad with social media, with the echo chambers, the deep fakes, the conflicting narratives around the news, and especially public health during COVID. Is this what Besmanov was talking about, the ruling class and the intelligence agencies using this modern-day version of this subversion playbook?

Is this basically what we're experiencing right now? Absolutely, that's what we're experiencing. And Besmanov didn't have the vision of the kind of electronic control over the media and immediate and universal dominance they could have over the media. But he knew that it could be done, but he was thinking in terms of the old style, you know, like cutting off the supply of paper to magazines and book publishers and newspapers that don't follow the party line.

They don't get the paper and they don't get the But now they just don't get the website and it's pretty much the same thing. Yeah, he understood that very well. Well, okay. Well, seeing that we, yeah, like we said, we were running low on time. We did want to talk about also the Red Pill Expo because, you know, you've been, you've been doing this for so long.

You've been talking about the rise of collectivism, this, this creeping authoritarianism and global control for decades, you know, and it does seem like, you know, again here with, the rise of the internet and being able to share most of this information pretty openly for at least a few years there. And we still have some pockets of opportunity even now with the censorship industry and everything, but people are waking up.

And it seems like there is a lot of people out there who would be interested in something like the Red Pill Expo. So do you mind maybe explaining why you chose to launch something like this and what role you see it playing in the moment that we're in now? Yes, I'm writing something right now. You just said something that I'm going to use. You said people are waking up. Of course, that is true. They're always waking up and some are going to sleep at the same time on the other side.

But I think that in net, the number of people waking up is increasing partly because of what I said a moment ago, that our opposition now wants them to wake up because they know from experience, they're professionals. They know that most people will react in total defeat and they'll go back into the embryonic position. They'll just want to hide and hope it passes over them. That's what they want because they don't want opposition. They don't want people stepping up.

And the reason I wrote it down is because you asked me about the Red Pill Expo and behind that is Red Pill University. And it's all about not just waking up, but stepping up.

It doesn't make any difference what you know. If you don't do anything with what you know except trying to protect yourself, we've got to restore the system. We've got to face the enemy face-to-face on the battlefield. Where's the battlefield? Well, it's in the political parties. It's in the churches. It's in the social organizations. It's in the school system.

It's everywhere. Where organizations are, labor unions, our enemy has captured control of the leadership positions in large organizations. They call them the power centers of society. And that's how that's the battlefield today. And we just never think about going into those organizations and lending support to them and trying to influence their policies. We leave that to the collectivists. These guys, they know the importance of leadership.

And so they've been taking over the country and the world from the bottom up. And we never noticed. And now they're at the top, but they came from the bottom. And our attitude in most cases is we want to start from the top down. We want to find a president or a senator or some big man on a white horse that'll do all this work for us and save us at the last minute. What we're doing is trying to build the system, rebuild the system from the bottom up.

And that's sort of the answer to the question, well, what can you do if you want to step up to the plate and actually do something besides just know about what's happening and being alarmed by what's happening? How about changing what's happening? And that means we've got to have the common people become involved in politics. We need them to step up and go into organizations and seek leadership positions.

We want to see them doing what you fellas do, get on the airwaves, get on the internet, open up radio talk show hosts, send newsletters around, communicate, and get organized at the street level, so to speak. At the local level, we're forming campuses of Red Pill University right now. One of the major objectives of our upcoming Red Pill Expo, which is an expo, it's a series of very high-octane presentations on the state of war today.

But the real objective of the whole meeting is to give people an opportunity to form organizations.

Local campuses of red pill university which will be local groups when we're looking for maybe 60 people in a local community who can who know what's going on but now are unified and they're going to work together to make sure that they're that they have people who represent our point of view in the all the local organizations and in the social clubs even and we've got to recapture the culture of the system from

the ground up not from the top down so long that was the long answer not really an answer. The importance, let's put it that way, the importance of the Red Pill Expo is not only to present information like we've been discussing today, because that's being presented by a lot of good organizations out there. But the one thing that seems to be falling short is what do you do about it?

How do you clean out all these collectivists who have gravitated to the top positions in all these power centers of society? How do you clean them out and replace them with people who have an individualistic point of view. They have principles. We didn't even talk about those, but they have principles. For the first time, our movement for liberty and privacy and freedom has principles that we can talk about. What is liberty? What do you need? You can't just hold up, well, the constitution.

You ask a person, I believe in the constitution. Ask them, what's so hot about the constitution? They have no idea. They can't answer. They don't know, but to the constitution. No, they have to know what the principles are. Okay. This is the starting point to that whole path of stepping up to the plate and actually turning the tables and recapturing control of the power centers of society that starts at the Red Pill Expo.

Now, I hope that's a teaser, but it should be because we need a starting point. And this is and starting points. So if you want to know more about it, go to the website and look up redpillexpo.org. Oh, we will definitely have that link at the bottom of the podcast description. And you can see it all there and you'll see who the speakers are, the presenters, and then keep thumbing around.

You'll find a lot of information about what we believe in. What are those principles that we're talking about? What is the difference between collectivism and individualism? That's the key. Nobody knows what that is. They don't even know what the words mean, but they will if they spend some time on our website. Man, Edward, this was one of the most amazing podcasts we've ever done. I got goosebumps several times.

You are so well-spoken. I mean, for more than a half of a century, you've been sounding an alarm on this, on this hidden power. You've been waking up thousands of people to the. You basically inspired the entire in the Fed movement and, you know, you and Ron Paul both. And you've reminded us like that true freedom demands vigilance. And I have to admit, 93 years old, your mind is fricking razor sharp.

Your knack for like, you just walked us down like this whole historical pathway with history and nuance and practical solutions into one seamless narrative. I mean, that was nothing short of heroic, man. And thank you so much for guiding us through this real-time history class that we just had. And I know it was a little dark, and we talked about a bunch of different kind of pills. You know, but you reminded me, like, in us, that the fight's not over, right?

Oh, no. No, the fight is not over. No, the fight is not over. It's just begun. So for our listeners, most of our listeners know that we always like to end on a solutions-based white pill question. And you kind of, with your Red Pill Expo, kind of provided that for us. So I'm going to personalize this a little bit. There's a meme that goes around that attributes a quote to you. And if it's not you, I apologize, but I'm still going to ask you this question.

So the quote is, whatever it is you decide to do, do it soon. Do it now. Every minute that you delay further will add dearly to the price of ultimate victory. So my question to you is right now in this very moment, what concrete steps should each of our listeners take before this episode ends to turn that decision into real world action? Well, number one, that is my quote that I ended, one of my presentations, I ended with that.

And it's a strong quote. I worked on it. I wanted it to be strong, but it's not just an artifact. It's not something I just invented to sound good. I really believe that to the center of my soul. I'm not a pessimist. I said before, I'm a realist. And as a realist, I know that the price is going to be, and already is to many people, a very high price. And we've just started to pay the price. But we will.

And when you think about all of the people that have preceded us in history, the millions and hundreds of millions of people, many of whom were probably in a primitive state of civilization, still we're facing the same basic problems that we are, and that is, leave me alone. Don't try and enslave me. Don't try and kill me. Don't make me a piece of property for you. Let me live my life as a human being. That's basically what we're talking about.

That's the principle, the hidden principle in individualism and not collectivism.

So when I think about all the people that have paid the price of their lives, literally, in defense of that idea, the idea that we can sacrifice a little bit of our time, a little bit of our effort, a little bit of our money, and risk being controversial, risk having people say, we don't like you, you're a Nazi or something, and whatever they want to call us, a racist, that's the latest thing, we're racist, if we disagree with them.

And anyway, that is so minor sacrifice compared to what people have been willing to give in the past. And in the future, if we're not willing to fight for liberty, we won't have liberty. That's as simple as that. And I think it's worth fighting for.

I agree. Thank you very much, Edward. This was an amazing podcast and this is one for the books. Well, I hope so. And anytime you want to get deeper into come over to the redpilluniversity.org. And boy, that's the second step. And yeah, it's a funnel. It's a funnel. You got to be careful. Otherwise, we'll make a true patriot out of you. Well, let's go. We'll have that link at the bottom, everybody. So you guys can go and check out this Red Pill Expo and see what it's all about.

Again, thank you for coming on. This was an amazing podcast. Well, thank you for inviting me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Griffin. Yeah, thanks for listening, everybody. Music.