[00:01] Katie: Welcome to the Focus B show, where Katie Stoddart, high performance coach, interviews experts around the world in performance and mindfulness. Now here's your host. Katie.
[00:32] Katie: Welcome to a brand new episode of the Focus B show. I'm thrilled today to be here with James Williams. James is a professor at the University of Tennessee and the owner of Unmask. He teaches mindfulness leadership to leaders all over the world and of many Fortune Hundred companies. James is an international speaker, coach, and writer. Welcome to the show, James. How are you doing today?
[00:59] James: I'm doing very well. I can't complain. You see my background? I'm trying to enjoy life right now, so everything's good.
[01:05] Katie: Amazing. It's wonderful to have you here. I'd like to begin with joining two key topics. I know that you teach mindfulness and leadership to great leaders. How do you feel that mindfulness and leadership are connected?
[01:23] James: Man, I really don't know if you can be an effective leader without being mindful. You think about as a leader, and normally when we're saying leader, we're talking about authoritative power, people that's put into positions or things of that nature, which I think being a leader is more influential power, but we'll get into that. So if you have this power, you're in charge of these individuals. You got so many different distractions. You have your personal life, your money may not be flowing right, all of these different things. So it takes you out of the place that you should be when you're actually trying to connect with your colleagues or people that are looking for you for support. So I think by being mindful, you're really able to be in tune and really aware of what's going on in an individual's life. And awareness is the key to mindfulness. But I think going back to leadership, leadership is really having the ability to inspire others to follow. So what I tell people is, if somebody remove your title, will people still follow you? If the answer is no, then are you a leader? So I think you really want to try to have influential power to where you have the ability to inspire others to follow, but also to transform individuals into being the best version of themselves, which we coin as transformational leadership.
[02:37] Katie: Amazing. And did you go first down the route of mindfulness and then into leadership or the other way around or sort of joined together? How did that look like for you?
[02:47] James: So it's funny, I was listening to Steve Jobs old commencement speech that he gave at Stanford, and he said, you really can't see your life until you connect the dots looking backwards. And I was thinking about my teacher, Miss Sharp, when I was in the fourth grade. I used to have these fits of anger, and she kicked the kids out of the class one day and said, hey, I need to talk to you. And she grabbed me by my chin and said, I see you. And I wouldn't look at her. I was trying to be tough and she hugged me and I started crying. And as the tears rolled down my face, she said, look, I see something good in you, but you got to control your anger. So she took out this ball of yarn and these two little metal sticks and she said, I'm going to teach you how to knit. So anytime you get angry, I want you to sit over here and knit. She said, if students in a classroom, you could take the ball and the two sticks and go down to this art room and knit. She was teaching me mindfulness and I knew nothing about it. She was teaching me how to focus on something, to take my attention away from this emotion. To me, mindfulness is allowing you to get out of your emotions, to rise to this higher seat of consciousness, to where you're able to see yourself. So I learned it at a young age, but I wasn't really applying it to my life. I think as I got older, I started meditating, I started eating mindful and just really trying to be more conscious and aware. And I think that's what really drew me back to that story, but also to realize that, wow, you get more out of life when you're just in a moment, for sure.
[04:20] Katie: And so did you apply that? Did you actually go and knit every time you felt angry?
[04:24] James: Not every time, but my mother bought me a little yarn ball and I was knitting in the car. My brothers would pick on me and all of this stuff, but, yeah, I did knit. It was fun. It was very therapeutic.
[04:36] Katie: Yeah, I like knitting. Do you feel that it helped you with emotional management? So when you were struggling or you were feeling angry, did you feel it helped you?
[04:44] James: It really did, because when you think about mindfulness, your mind is just focused. You're just focused on the one thing. So when I'm knitting, I'm just focusing on and it was no multitasking, I'm just trying to put it together and I'm listening to the sound of it clang up against the other pole and you're throwing a yarn and you're going through and you're making a little knots. And it was a form of catharsis. I don't know. So, yes, to answer your question, it definitely took me away from that element of anger. But as I got older, awareness is where you learn, why are you angry? So that's what mindfulness did. Why are you angry? Why are you bothered? What is the reason? How can you use this in a positive manner? And that's how I started really trying to apply mindfulness to my life.
[05:35] Katie: What's the equivalent of knitting for you nowadays, what you do when you have those feelings?
[05:40] James: Honestly, I love working out. It's like to really be in tune with your body, to realize when you're doing different core exercises. You're filling the cuts or you're doing biceps. You're squeezing and getting those cuts. And it's like really just saying, I can tell my body what to do. This body is just dirt and clay. I'm going to make it do what I wanted to do. So to me, that power. Also, when I'm reading a book, I get lost. I want to become part of the author. Like, what was the author thinking? I want to go into his world. So it's not too many books that I don't like because I'm trying to see it from the author's perspective. And I think that's a form of empathy. So reading books, working out, walking outside, or just sometimes going outside, looking up to the sky and saying God, or this infinite source of intelligence, like, thank you. Just being grateful, I think bring me into a state of mindfulness, too, because you have to be very particular about what you're grateful for. So I think that's what kind of helped me be mindful.
[06:41] Katie: Amazing. I would come back to the emotional side of things because that's where it all began for you. So managing the emotions, managing the anger. I know that one of your areas of expertise is emotional intelligence. So what are some of the few sort of key tips that help people that are really struggling to manage their emotions?
[06:59] James: I think going back to what you said earlier, first, you got to be mindful. Why are you going into this conversation? So let's say I have a student. She could be upset about her grade or whatever. So my goal is, I understand why she's upset. Let me try to go into her shoes. I know what it was like not to have good grades or to feel like maybe you did your best or whatever is going on. But her job is to try to get me to see it from her point of view. But my job is to feel what it is that she's feeling. So I need to try to go into have a form of empathy. So emotional intelligence is really understanding their emotions, understanding my emotions, and being able to rise above those emotions to really find out what is the best solution for this actual situation to where she can feel satisfied. To me, it brings me into a place of unconditional love. Even though this may be annoying me that this person is coming, remove all of that. What can I do to serve this person? And I read in the Bible, but also servant leadership, our job is to serve. A lot of times we think we are to be served, especially when you're in a position of leadership. Oh, your ego. You need to listen to me. No, kill your ego, die to your ego, and just really try to walk in this person's shoes and understand where they're coming from. And then you can have a more authentic response to their situation. So it's not knowing what to say, but it's just being in the moment and getting lost and really trying to understand that person, then whatever comes out is going to be authentic. And I think a lot of times that sort of mitigate any type of negative emotions that could come from the situation.
[08:34] Katie: Definitely. It's so beautifully put having that empathy and that connection and coming from a place of kindness and love to actually go above that emotion. But I want to come back to exactly that point, because I know emotions are really powerful and some people that aren't used to practicing mindfulness, some people who aren't used to having a bit of that separation from their emotion, they can really struggle to let go and to rise above it. So how can people who aren't used to this, who've never had any emotional management practice, who don't have a mindfulness practice, what can they do to actually take a moment and rise above, not get carried away by an emotion of anger or fear that can happen in any circumstance?
[09:17] James: I'll say this, Katie, and you may be able to relate. When I think about times know, you get into a heated debate and you get upset, what tends to happen is we tend to realize that we're upset, but then a subtle judgment come in. I can't believe I'm doing this. And then because you're angry about the fact that you're in this situation and your judgment, it creates more negative energy. So I say the first thing to do is be aware that you're upset. The second thing is don't judge yourself. Don't judge yourself. It is what it is now. And you may stay because I have done this before. I'm aware that I'm getting upset, but I'm still being an ******* in that situation, right? I've still been an *******, but after it's over, I'm sitting there saying, ****, what can I have done differently? And I say, okay, so now I get excited for the next test because it's going to happen again. I'm a firm believer. You keep receiving the same test until you pass it. And once you pass it, it may come, it won't come the same way. It'll come in a different form. But you got to be, AHA, I see you now. You have that awareness. So you got to have the awareness with no judgment and just realize we're all flawed, we're all imperfect people. There is no such thing as perfection. It's normal to be upset, I think. People don't think it's no, it's normal to have emotions and to be upset. It's not normal to say, I'm going to take my emotions and all of this negative energy and project it on you. No, that's being reactive. So to be proactive is to be aware I'm upset. Well, what is the best solution for me in this situation? Maybe it's to step away. Maybe it's to take a deep breath. Maybe it's to have empathy and try to walk in that individual's shoes. But that's what you got to do, and you got to find out what's right for you. I have this mantra of check your life, be limitless. Be in the moment. Be in a moment. Like, what am I really trying to accomplish here? If you love this person, you truly love this person. You're trying to come from that place of love. But if the person is still upset, maybe they can't receive it right then and there. Maybe you need to step away. So I think the biggest thing to do is to be aware and not judge yourself.
[11:27] Katie: Amazing. It all starts with that awareness. All starts with, first of all, noticing you're upset, because then you can pause. Then you can have a bit of that gap and think, wait, how do I want to respond? So as soon as people start practicing this awareness, it makes it so much easier. I want to look a bit into your journey. I know you've had a very interesting journey and you wrote a bit about it, I imagine, in your book From Thug to Scholar. Could you tell us a bit about what that journey was like?
[11:53] James: It was a mind shift. I think all of us, we wear these masks, we come from these environments, and it started a young age. So I was talking about this in my new book, check Your Life Be Limitless. When you see babies, they could care less about being naked. They don't care about the size of their manhood. They don't care about their bellies. They don't care about the slobber having food on. They're just enjoying life. And then all of a sudden, a serpent come in and say, let me tell you who you are. You're fat. Don't eat that. You're white, you're black, you're a female, you're male. You're this, you're that. And we put all of these limitations on this godly innocence that is showing us really how to live. And we put all of these labels on them. And what happens when we tell them, you're a girl. Well, you can do this, but you're a girl. You can't do guys do this, or you're black. In the US. You might not be able to do these things. Or you're tall, you can play basketball, you're short, you can't all of these different things. So we put all these limitations on people, and the sad thing is we buy into them. And now we're not able to truly be the gods that we was meant to be. The kings and queens, the rulers of this world. We're not able to be that because we have limitations. And then the 1% that tap into that, we look at them as exceptional. They're not exceptional. They just found out the esoteric knowledge that we are not privy to because we buy into this finite way of thinking. So for me, you have this way of thinking at this young age, for me, I came into this environment, I didn't really understand what was going on, why my father, my biological father, didn't want to be in my life or our lives. And my mother just said, hey, well, he signed over his rights, but Jimmy, which is the guy I look at as my father, he want to adopt you. So my name went from James Cremell to and I'm just trying to figure this out. Like, why is this happening? And then I'm in this environment where my mother's know, if somebody hit you, turn the other cheek. That's what Jesus do. But I realize when I do that, these guys keep trying to pick on me every day. But as soon as I fight back now, everybody loved me in this environment. So what do I want to do? Do I want to be the person getting bullied, or do I want to be the person that's tough? Well, I want to survive. I think the first mechanism of most people is to just survive. How can you survive in this environment? So that was my way of surviving. My other way of surviving was to be cool, to be popular, the guy with the girls, the guy that have nice clothes or money and these things. So you pick up these little bad mannerisms or bad mannerisms based on society standards. But now when I look back, they made me who I am. So I started selling drugs at a young age, started having sex, had two kids, all of these things that when you look at me statistically, I shouldn't be in the position that I'm in. But then a switch came on. Are you really this guy that you created yourself to be, this thug, or are you something more? And I said, no, I'm not a thug. I'm more than black. I'm more than any labels they gave me. I need to figure out who I am. So then the transformation came on. When I joined the military, I don't have to be J rock. I don't have to be a football player. I need to just come in and figure out who am. So but it's funny how life worked. I never wanted to be married, but when I met my wife, it gave me something to love, because at the time, I really had no love for anything. I was just going through the motions of life. I just knew I didn't want to go to prison. I didn't want to keep doing what I'm doing. And then I met this woman that I love. And then it was like, all right, boom. You love her, but you're putting all of your energy and effort into her, and you're miserable. You're still insecure. So I had to realize, how do I love myself? And the more I started loving myself, I'm like, wow, life could really be this beautiful thing. So I started saying, all right, how can I make myself better? And I had people that was like, you need to go back to college. So once I started going back to college and started having some worldly successes, it builds your confidence up. But what happened is you hit a plateau to where, okay, I'm successful by the world standards, but I'm still missing something. I'm not happy. So then you start looking inward for where's the real joy at, the joy and the peace is on the inside, because you can get the money, you can get the woman, you can get the cars, you can get all these things, but you're like, ****, I'm still not quite happy. So once I found that inner peace, the God, the way that I saw it, I realized that I could do whatever I want. Because if my God is all knowing and all powerful, how do I not have the information to do what I need to do on this Earth? So that's when it was a mental shift. I tell people it's all mind, body and spirit. So mentally, my mind shifted from thug to scholar. But then in the latest book, Check Your Life, Be Limitless, it ascended beyond that. This is not about labels in this world. I'm more than that. I'm just a limitless being. So now it's not about being a scholar, it's not about being an actor. No, I'm just limitless. I could do what I want to do. And I truly believe that. And I think once you believe that, you can get everything you want. You get the body, you can get the mind, you can get the spiritual aspect. So that's what the mental transformation has been in my life.
[17:02] Katie: Amazing. That is so beautifully put. And I can totally see all the different levels. The first, it was sort of an identity upgrade where you had that mind shift. So, okay, I'm going to study. And you had these achievements, and that built your self confidence. But then, like you said, you reached a plateau. You arrive at a moment where you realized, wait a minute, that's still not really giving me the inner peace I want. And that's when you check in. And I think it's kind of natural to go through these steps because until we've had the achievements or maybe the status or the money or whatever it is that we think we need in order to be happy until we don't have it, we still think that's what will give us that happiness. We still think, oh, when I have that job, or when I'm finding a relationship, or when I have that money. And so when we reach that and we think, oh, yeah, no, that didn't work. Now where do I look? Then we start looking within. So that was just such a beautiful sort of journey with all these milestones. I think it's so inspirational for people listening. I hope they also realize exactly what you said that it's not external.
[18:02] James: And Katie, the beautiful thing is Steve Jobs. I got to give it to him. He really said it best. Most people, they look backwards with a sense of judgment. To hold on to the luggage, it's like trying to go to the airport and you're just holding on to all of this luggage. You're never going to get to the gate. But if you let it go and you look back to say, okay, where did I come from? And now you start connecting the dots. It's a free way of looking at it. It's no judgment. When I look back, it's just, oh, wow, this is how my life has got to where it is now. It also gives you the confidence to where it's a trust. We call it self efficacy, right. This self awareness to where if I was able to come from way back here to where I am now, the future is beautiful. Let it go. Let go and let god but most people are still trying to control. You have no control. And I realize the more you try to hold on and have control, the more out of control you are. I have no control. I live life as if I'm going to live forever, but I could die tomorrow. That is a fact. But I don't care. You see what I'm saying? And I think that is the freeness of being limitless. Okay, my body dies, but my energy source is just going to still be lighting up this world in some way or another. And then everything I've done, people are going to look back on it and say, oh, this guy was really onto something. He was saying something. So people value a lot more a lot of times when you die anyway. So either way, you win.
[19:34] Katie: That's the way I'm going to fear. Dear, I'm curious, what was that pivotal moment? The one where you had all the achievements, you had all the scholarly degrees, you met your wife. Can you describe one of the moments where you thought, okay, no, I have to look within because I think some people haven't reached that step. So maybe describing it for them, that point where you just thought, okay, no, it's actually within.
[19:55] James: Yes. So I give you three things. I think the switch from thug to scholar was when I almost shot somebody. So you could take this situation and you have a choice. You could blame your environment, you can blame all of these people, or you can have accountability and say, nah, James, you ******* up, man. What's up with your thinking? So for me, it was like, okay, wow, I need to change this. The two pivotal once I made that shift, that paradigm shift well, three. I graduated from college. I was the first one in my family, and I was like, It's not feeling quite right. So in my mind, it was like, I still need to play professional football. So out of been out of the game for about four or five years, I had an opportunity, I was blessed to play, sign this contract and play professional arena football. Not quite the NFL, but it still was a goal. 77 people tried out. They gave 25 people contracts. So out of a guy that hasn't played in so long and multiple knee injuries, it's like, wow, God, you allow me to play football. But when I signed my contract, I was like, wow, I thought it would feel better than this when I'm traveling. I thought it would feel better. You signing autographs. People are loving you, and you realize all of this validation is just temporary. As soon as they leave, I still got myself to deal with. All of these people are saying these great things about me, but it's like, I don't still see that, though. I need more people to say it, and I just don't feel it. And then the third was when I got my PhD. I'm like, I'm in the 1%. And then it's not no black men that have it. I got a PhD. I'm about to be a professor. And it's like, still don't feel it, though. And that's when I said, okay, I'm making money. I'm doing these things. I need something more, because life started getting boring to where it's like, God, I'm ready to go. It's not fun anymore. I've done everything that, from my little perspective of coming from a kid, from poverty and all of this stuff, I got all of these things, and I'm still miserable. God, what you want me to do? And I realized God was like, it's not about none of those things. It's about your heart. Why are you trying to do this? So then it became, I need to share this joy and this love with everybody else. People need to understand how limitless they can be and just enjoy every aspect of their life. So I can just be having a random conversation with a person on a plane that feels just as good as getting a paycheck for being a professor. So once you start enjoying every aspect of your life, then you have God in it. And it's the scripture that I think about. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. When you have a pure heart, you see God in everything you do. You see God in the little animals that's walking with their owners or whatever. You see God in everything, and that's when you're like, okay, I get it. It ain't about none of this stuff. It's about just enjoying this little moment in time that we have, because it's all temporary. So that's what it was for me.
[22:55] Katie: So nice you've left me wordless. I was just totally absorbed by the image of I mean, I call it the universe rather than God, but that's just terminology. It's the magic, the nature. There's so many different words, but I totally see what you're saying and the fact that you finished with it's all temporary. I think this is something people know when you're obsession about a goal or when you really fixated on having something in your life, this desire or this sadness and grief. We're only here temporarily, so you might as well make the most of it.
[23:28] James: And Katie, I will say this because I want your listeners to get this too. God is coming, from my perspective, in the Western culture, but when we really look at this, you can't find God in any organization. You can't find it in any religion. You got to go deeper than that. No finite individuals can lead you to God. So we can call it God or Gad, which is the German terminology that Europeans took here and adopted because Africans had a different name for it. People in the Middle East have a different name for it. This energy, this intelligence, this thing that runs through us is all connected. We're calling it all different things. It's the same thing. So I think a lot of times we get so caught up in these religions which religion is the art of confusion. In any spiritual text you read, god or this energy source is not the author of confusion. But we divide and separate each other. But if we just be in a moment mindful and experience what God have in front of us, this is the true church. This is it. Being able to connect with people and seeing them from a perspective to where, I don't want anything from you. I don't want to use you. I just want to be in love with you. I just want to be in this moment and embrace it. That is God or energy or Qi or Taoism. But we get so caught up with these words, it's like, oh, well, he's saying this. You got to cut it off. So when I go to churches or go to these places to talk, I say, okay, God. But we can call it infinite intelligence or supreme wisdom, whatever you want to call it. And they're like, I don't like that the energy source. I said, but it is physics, right? What you put out into this world, it comes back to you. I mean, it's a fact.
[25:09] Katie: So true. And we spend way too much time dividing ourselves just because of terminology or ways of looking at things when, like you said, essentially, it's all the same. It's all exactly the same thing, and we just put different labels onto it just before we finish the show, because this has just gone super quickly. What would be your main tips? What would be your recommendations for someone who's exactly in the position you were that has those achievements and realizes, ma, now, how can they start to find that inner peace? How can they start to look within?
[25:42] James: I think you got to start very. Basic. It's all in how you set your day. I wake up in the morning, I like to get up before everybody else, because me, I'm more important than anybody, period. And I think it's hard for people to say that because society have taught you, oh, love other people before yourself. That makes no sense. That makes absolutely no sense. How can I love you more than me? That makes no sense. If I love myself to the highest level, I can give you all of that love back. That's like saying, I'm going to give you water, but I don't have any water. That makes no sense. So I think you got to start there. But when you wake up in the morning, I think you need to take care of your brain, prime it the right way. Don't cut on your phones, don't look at your phones, none of that stuff. And if you feel like, I just got to cut my phone on, have something positive or inspirational going into your brain, your brain is the most impressionable the first 30 minutes to an hour. So whatever you do with your brain in that time frame is going to really set your day. So I like to wake up and I say three things. Thank you for being able to breathe. One reason why I say that my mother named me James Arthur Williams, after my cousin James Arthur Parker. He wanted to see us, and my mother said, whatever twin comes out first, I'm going to name him after him. He died at the age of 13, literally five months before I was born, and he had an asthma attack. So I'm grateful for having the opportunity to breathe and carrying on his name. So I want to get the most out of every breath. But then the next thing is you find something else simple. Hey, I'm grateful that I can move my fingers. I'm grateful that I can look at myself and love the way I look in a mirror. It doesn't matter what nobody else think. I look good. We could tell people you look good all day. But if you don't believe it, trust me, you don't look good. It's all in here. So you find three things that you really, really enjoy. And then I like to start with my mantra, prime yourself to have a great day. So I say today is a glorious day. But you can't just say it as today is a glorious day. Today is a glorious day. And for 86,400 seconds, I would give my excellence and my best until I'm laid to rest. I'm abundantly blessed and never stressed. Be better than your best and never rest on your last success. Check your life, be limitless. And to me, that's really setting my day to where I got control of the day every second. I need to try to make the most out of it. And of course, you're not. But when you have a goal that's that high majority of your seconds can be spent on excellence and being your best. So I think you want to have three things you're grateful for. Prime yourself to do something amazing and then go and take care of your body. So everything is mind, body and spirit. I go to the gym and work out religiously. It doesn't matter if I'm on vacation. I got to take care of my body. It's like brushing my teeth. I got to do it. And some people, oh, well, just be on vacation and enjoy yourself. That makes no sense. I enjoy working out. So should I not brush my teeth? No. This is a part of what you if I was given this body, why am I not taking care of it? That makes no sense. Oh, you don't take care of your body when you're on vacation. How does that make sense? It makes absolutely no sense. But people will buy into that and it's like, oh, well, I don't drink because I love my body. I don't want to destroy my body. This is my temple. This is the only thing I get to show people how great life can be. I want to take care of it. So prime yourself with gratefulness, your spirituality by priming yourself with some mantra that sets your day right and then take care of your body. And for me, I think that's what sets me on the right path.
[29:16] Katie: Amazing. I think that's fantastic tip already. The way you set the day with the intention, with those commitment, looking at all those aspects, even if maybe the listeners have a different perspective on how they can prime the mind, body and spirit, at least they start that way. And I'd also add if then they continue it throughout the yes, yes.
[29:35] James: And Katie, I think what you said is the key. We're all just agents of this greater source. What works for me works for me. What works for Katie. Works for Katie. You got to figure out and tap into your source because we all are very unique. We all have different DNA or fingerprints and things of that nature. We all have different makeups. We're all uniquely made. Figure out what works with you, be consistent. But as Katie said, throughout the day, throughout the day, I'm still saying check your life. Be limitless throughout the day. I'm saying today is a glorious day. Like, you got to set the tone the right way. So as a man thinketh or a woman thinketh, they know. So it's up to us to have the right mindset.
[30:18] Katie: Wonderful. James, I could talk to you all day. Thank you so much for the interview. This is absolutely fantastic. I'm going to take that. Today is a glorious day. I love it. Thank you for a glorious conversation. Thank you so much.
[30:30] James: Thank you. Thank you.
[30:32] Katie: Thank you for listening to the Focus B show. We would love to hear your feedback. Let us know in a review how this episode inspired you. Keep buzzing.