[00:01] Katie: Welcome to The Focus B Show, where Katie Stoddart, high performance coach, interviews experts around the world in performance and mindfulness. Now here's your host, Katie.
[00:34] Katie: Welcome, everybody, to a new episode of The Focus B show. I am delighted and thrilled to have Laura Petroska on the show today. Laura is a wonderful friend of mine. Super bubbly. She has experience as an international brand manager, and she's currently a coaching practitioner. She's lived in seven countries. She's fun and extroverted, and it's a real pleasure to have on the show today. Hi, Laura. Welcome to the show. It's so fantastic to have you here.
[01:07] Laura: Hey, Katie, thank you so much meet you. I'm super excited for today.
[01:11] Katie: Yeah. Looking forward to our conversation. I know that what we discussed a bit off air was the importance of the self compassion in terms of performance and productivity, though, there's always these two angles to productivity and performance the forcing self discipline side and the self compassion feminine self love aspect. I'm wondering what has your experience been so far when you look back in this journey from going from one yang approach of forcing to the more soft yin perspective?
[01:46] Laura: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for opening up with this topic, so to say or subtopic. I think, well, going back to years ago, when we are born, we are born, so to say, empty. Right. So we have a lot of years, a lot of opportunities and experiences to fill ourselves up with the person we want to become. Right? And so in my journey, since I became aware of, hey, actually my life is in my own hands, and now it's for me to shape myself into that person I want to be, into that best version of myself that I want to live with. So the first step in my journey was really become productive. Really. That something I call like, that masculine side of productivity. Come on, let's go, let's get it done. Wake up early, put disciplines, put routines in your day, don't take too many long breaks. You're feeling down. What? You're feeling down. You don't have time to feel know, you don't have time to sleep. You don't have time to take time off what is know? So I was really like investing myself know, that Tony Robbins kind of productivity, like high energy, go get it done kind of thing. And it was a wonderful experience until the point where I realized, wait a second, am I feeling like, fully fulfilled? When I really come down? When I'm in this silent space? When I'm on my own? When there is nowhere for me to perform, so to say? And I was like, slowly I don't know if it came with age, with experiences, hard to put a word with what exactly. But with time, I started realizing that there is something more to that, that my soul is asking for something. Obviously, the typical situation is once I reached the point where my body was rejecting any more Tony Robbins seminars, productivity talks, coaching sessions, any more growing, I said, Whoa, what happened to me? And basically what happened to me was, I think, in my journey, I kind of deprioritized or didn't realize that there is the feminine side of productivity. I call it feminine because it's more that like cocooning yourself, self love, self compassion, knowing when to stop in order to recharge and go back to set that dance floor on fire. So then it was kind of the second stage of my productivity development within me as a personality, was really focusing more on this soft side. And I think that's pretty much where I am now. Kind of not relearning what I learned, but more having this masculine productivity strengths in combination or in the dance, together with the feminine, self care, self love side.
[05:01] Katie: That sounds so like my journey. Laura it's incredible. I could totally relate with the sort of overdose of personal development after a while and thinking, this is too much, and feeling the forcing and the self discipline and the willpower and then having that sense of emptiness you described. I can definitely relate to that feeling of once you've been busy and productive and done all your stuff and you pause in silence and you still feel a sort of lack and emptiness. And that's when you realize that you still don't have the self acceptance. I feel that's the next stage, once you've done all these things on the outside, there's still a part of you dependent on the external results for self validation. And when you really pause and think and reflect and go deep, you think, oh, there's another aspect I haven't considered. And I think this is why when I talk about peak performance, I am more and more including all of these aspects, what I call the Yin peak performance, because there's lots of Yang peak performance out there. There's all the Robin Sharma, the 05:00 A.m. Club, and the Tony Robbins type of energy and all the productivity gurus and the discipline, the willpower, the getting up at five. We can still do these things, but from a more self accepting perspective. So I'm curious, Laura, to hear your thoughts on how you started to implement this in your life, how you started to this new part of your journey on a more self compassionate, self loving perspective.
[06:38] Laura: All right, I'm just taking a second to reflect because, honestly, even saying that it was my choice is not entirely true. I think it was more my body saying, either I'm stopping and you go your own way and I'm staying here, or you do something about it. So, again, as I mentioned before, is the classic high achiever syndrome, where some people get a burnout, some people get a depression. I don't want to put a word because, again, this diagnosis, I think it's a bit on the continuum in the end of the day. But the point is you feel physical signs. So it was also for me, I think a little bit, my body said okay, now this time to do something. So I think in terms of what I really did or what I do is well, I guess it's about observing yourself really, in the first place, observing yourself. And I think also just stopping for a second and understanding how well you actually know if you listen to your body, what is good for you and when it's good for you. So, for example, everyone knows me as a very extroverted social person and I have that side in me for sure. But I have to say that with years I have realized that I am not only that. So that means to me, for example, I do miss my family. I do miss my friends. Especially living abroad for what, eleven years now? Before as soon as I have this feeling I miss my family, I need to call them. I need to again be that extroverted social person because I miss them. I need to see people. I need to go out. I need to go out dance, because I love dancing. And now it's more like, wait, do I really want to go dance or really want to call them? Or is this more coming from the place? Because I'm really tired and then because I'm tired, I'm low, I'm down and I'm starting to feel all these things like maybe I'm not going out enough, maybe I'm not speaking my family enough. So this is I don't know if it's a very tangible but I see you're nodding, so I guess you know what I mean. And these are just the magic moments for me now where practically I stop, I observe and I really say what is it that I need? And actually, more often than not these days, I realize that that's not that I need to go out or call someone, but I just need to put an incent, have a nice smell in the home or essential oils, nice music, maybe do a little meditation, maybe go for a walk, maybe watch something positive, like a bit neutral, a bit beautiful. So this is one example is to stop, to listen to your body, not only your mind, also your heart, and take a decision what you want to do in this moment. And again, Katie, we could speak obviously about also rituals, about routines, because this is something as we go along the day, we should know how to feel our bodies and understand what's good for us. But then again, of course there are also frames or how I frame my day. So, for example, I know that for me it's very important to wake up slowly. I know I'm this slow person in the morning, long breakfast, nice shower, because it helps me start the day right. So, without going into too many details, because I know we often discuss it in the productivity topics. But this is something I also believe in. Again, knowing yourself, knowing what's a good routine for you. For example, something very funny. I used to do contrast showers before because I heard it's a good thing. Contrast shower puts you in the good mood. And I was like hot shower, great cold shower. It's cold but I got used to it. I was so proud of myself until the moment I did an Ayurveda camp where I learned more about myself, about my dosha, about my type of personality. What I realized actually not good for me to take cold showers if I believe Ayurveda because I have the wind energy naturally in me. So I need the opposite. I need the calming down, I need the warm showers, warm teas. So this is an example of how people sometimes follow the framework of productivity. Cold shower is good because someone told me that and I have to do it. No, again, I'm coming back to the same like we have to invest into knowing ourselves. And if your productivity or my productivity is sometimes watching a movie, which I personally hate, I'm not afraid of the word, I don't like watching movies, not my thing. But then I know some people do. So I think funny enough, but this could also mean that it's your way to recharge and you'll be more productive tomorrow. So yeah, I went maybe a bit off track but I just wanted to wrapping up this to say I think the key thing I do on my journey of self care is trying to really feel what is it I need in this moment. Next hour I ask again what is it I need now?
[12:10] Katie: Yeah, I love the alignment and what you said was just music to my ears in terms of how you felt about reaching out to people when you thought you were low and you realized that's not what you needed. It's literally what I lived word for word. I think we're so similar in terms of personalities and extroversion and maybe the extroverted people listening will identify with this. We sometimes think because we're feeling low that we need to go out more or call a friend or listen to loud music because these have been our ways of operating for so long and it is what gives us energy. But like you also said, and this has definitely happened to me more than once, is if we're actually low on energy and tired, maybe we won't appreciate the conversation as much and maybe we just need, you mentioned incense or a candle or reading a book or some low music. And so it's not because we're used to these ways to have more energy that we always have to rely on them. So I think that's such a valid and important point. And then I also love what you were saying in terms of the rituals and listening to our body. I personally love cold showers, but that's not the point. The point is more about how it's aligned and not doing things just for the sake of it. I have a similar experience as you do with the showers, which is getting up at 05:00 a.m.. I prefer to have more of my evenings and then get up at seven than to get up at five. And I've also read, and this is particularly true for women, that in terms of always doing how hardcore workout, getting up super early all the time, at the same time every day, isn't good for women with their cycles because we change in the different phases and so we can't actually do these things all the time or it doesn't benefit our bodies.
[13:56] Laura: Exactly.
[13:56] Katie: Sort of what you were saying in terms of ayurveda or being vata, you didn't use the word vata, but with the wind I'm also vata, but I was thinking I'm vata pita. So maybe the cold showers is good for the pita side of things, but that's ayurveda that's a whole other conversation completely. It's like moving. I had a friend that was really into ayurveda when I lived in Barcelona, so I know we spoke about it a lot and how it changes food. For example, raw diet isn't particularly good for people who are vata. It's good to eat more warm food. Like what you were saying, warm tea, warm food. Anyway, that's a whole other conversation. I'm curious, Laura, what are some of your well being practices? Because once you realize that pushing and forcing wasn't always the way forward, what sort of practices did you start to put in place that helped you to reconnect with your body, that helped you to feel aligned and to feel more peaceful?
[14:52] Laura: Yeah, I think the answer to this will be again, at least we'll start a little bit in the same way, I think it's not about again, there is a part of routines in that, but then I think it's also allowing yourself not to have a plan of what to do, to take care of yourself. But it's more as in, what I'm trying to say is I don't have a plan. That okay. Half an hour after lunch I go for a walk, which I used to do half a year ago, because I thought it will work for me. It didn't because I wasn't doing it. It wasn't fitting my energy. I don't know what it didn't work completely. So now I think it's not so much about schedules or too much about routines or secret answers to things. And I'm still on the learning journey. So I think it's more about, as I said, feeling what I feel and understanding feeling what I need and doing it. And coming back to your words where you said sometimes, especially as being extroverted personalities, we feel okay. I know I get energy from speaking to someone, from going dancing, so I need to do it to get energy. And now I'm learning that not always I need to be on high energy. So I think, again, it's about, okay, feeling it. And I think our bodies are so smart because we feel it in our heart, throat, stomach, or somewhere when something is not right. So my number one practice would be really when I feel it, take a step back if I can. And usually we can later breathe and okay, my little child within me. Metaphorically, what is it that you're trying to tell me? It can be in other words, the point is, what am I feeling? And sometimes it's just about, okay, let's go grab a cup of coffee, go breathe some fresh air, come back to your work. Sometimes you look at the time and you're like, hey, it's six, I was working from early morning. Even though I have still some things left, maybe it's okay to wrap up for today and go home. It's just as simple as this. And I think again, what I want to do is I think I want to take this productivity concept down to earth a little bit, down to the human language, down to saying you're feeling down, it's okay. You go sit on the couch and smell your essential oils or go take a know. There is a concept I love, and I'm borrowing it from one of our guests on our podcast, MindShift, Paulie Brennan. She spoke about self soothe box. And I love this concept and that could be a brilliant answer to your question. Is really every one of us, we should have our self soothed box, meaning a lot of could be physical papers with ideas inside a jar of things, activities, things, I don't know, whatever makes you happy, what calms you down, what puts your mind at peace. And whenever we're feeling something is unease. At unease, we just draw a little paper to remind ourselves, okay, this is one of the things I love, which is having a nice cup of coffee, for example, and you go and do it again. Katie. Of course we can speak about sleeping well, which is something I used to be a person who says I will sleep when I die. And now, honestly, it's brilliant to see the development because I'm really prioritizing sleeping now and I'm so happy. Like, for example, a good Friday evening for me is going early to bed. And I don't know if people think I'm getting old or whatever, but I'm so proud of myself that I am accepting this natural change in me. Okay, so this is one thing. And then in terms of routines, as I said, sleep, I think is super important for me. Food is also very important, but these are the basics. I think most of your audience know these things. Yeah, just loving yourself, just being accepting that you are low and allowing yourself to be low sometimes. And then that's equally beautiful as being high. So I don't know if I answer your question, but I think I just don't want to say more rules or more things I do. I just want to really encourage everyone to find their own way. And just because I say sleeping is important, doesn't mean it's equally important for everyone, or it doesn't mean everyone should sleep 8 hours. Maybe 5 hours is enough for someone. Not for me.
[19:40] Katie: Yes, what's coming through is the flexibility. So when you're talking about all these things, you're saying, look, there's all these rules, there's all these frameworks. Some of it might work like cold showers or getting up at five for some people. Some people love it and others don't, and that it's okay for us to adapt. And I think this is really the journey. When we begin with productivity, with peak performance, with high levels of efficiency, we tend to go to all these rules and frameworks and think, if I'm able to do exactly everything they're doing, I will also be a rock star, ninja, high performance person. But it's actually a lot deeper than this. It would be too easy. It'd be too easy if all you had to do was just apply a framework and we were all the same. Then we'd all have the same diet, the same amount of sleep, get up at the same time. But it's not and I think the key has really been, as you were saying, through this episode, as you've been mentioning, first of all, first and foremost, to be able to listen to ourselves and to have that self knowledge. I think this is something that people are always working on, that you're working on, I'm working on, everyone is working on this self knowledge and self awareness. And when we have it, then we can be flexible with the rules because actually we can take what works for us. I still do cold showers, I still do my workout in the morning, but like I said, I don't get up at five and I manage my times during the day according to my energy level. So we take what does work and we change the rest. But to have that flexibility, we first need to experiment and we first need to know. You, me and other people have already tried the fixed framework for productivity, doing everything like in the book, and thinking some of it doesn't quite feel right. So I really love everything you're saying, especially in terms of the flexibility. And I also think one last point around this, I also think it's important to check our personality. So both you and I, Laura, I think we're both seven in the Enneagrams. If you know the Enneagram, I'd be surprised if you said that you're not. And so as a seven in the Enneagram, we like flexibility and we like fun and prioritize fun. And so for us, it's important that even if we do have some sort of schedule and structure to allow for spontaneity and space and fun, but for other personalities, maybe five in ones. For example, in AG I'm speaking, they might benefit from a more structured day and a bit less flexibility because they enjoy control. So again, it's not one rule fits all, it's adapting to it. We're coming close to the end of the show. A few minutes to go. Laura, I'm curious, what would be your advice for someone who really identifies with what you said at the beginning in terms of forcing productivity and self discipline and who really wants to begin this journey of self acceptance and self love? So aside from listening to themselves, which is number one, and I agree with you, aside from this, how can they really begin this journey? What can they do? Maybe some practical advice they can put in place that can help them begin this journey of Yin peak performance, as I like to call it.
[22:55] Laura: I love it. I think the one thing could be is to ask yourself, so speaking about productivity, why is it I want to be productive and what does productivity mean to me? What is the definition? I think it's one of those words that we all assume we know what everyone means, but I don't think we do. So again, if it's someone who identifies with what I have said, then chances are high that the answer will be it's related with happiness. So actually I want to be productive because I want to be happy one way or another. And then I think it becomes very easy, right? Because if you in the end of the day, productivity is a means for being happy, right. Then you will never over push yourself for the sake of being productive. Because in the end of the day, you also want to feel happy. So I think it's simple. But when we understand what is really the definition for us, every time we are at the place where we are like, okay, doesn't feel quite right. I think I'm tired or I think this is not the way to go for me today. Then I think again, to allow ourselves that flexibility you referred to or to allow ourselves to take the time to listen to what our bodies want is in the first place. A very helpful tool is to remind ourselves it's not about being productive alone. For me, it's actually about being productive in order to be happy, if that is your definition. So I think it's just about let's remember what is productivity to you and why is it really deep inside of you? What is the real reason you want to be productive?
[24:41] Katie: Yes, I love that. I think this is always how I defined sort of peak performance, which obviously includes productivity, but also includes mindset and includes balance. But it's really looking at, does this make you feel fulfilled? And I feel that when we have high levels of performance in our business or career or high levels of performance in our personal life, meaning that we have time and energy for our hobbies or our family or our friends, then we can really be fulfilled and at peace. And again, Laura, not to come back to our personalities, but the Sevens in are highly driven by happiness. Now, everyone wants to be happy, but like Laura and me more. But other people have other drives. So, for example, twos in the gram, their main need is to be loved, and threes, they strive for achievement. I mean, there's nine personalities. I won't go through them in detail, and I already have made several episodes on this. But the point being, we still all at some level want to be fulfilled and at peace, even though the Sevens in yagam wanted more. But that's like a whole other story. For those who are listening, laura, this has been fantastic. I think it's such an important topic. One last word for the listeners, one last piece of import, maybe a question they can have, or reflection. I feel you've shared so much gold in terms of your own journey and the important parts along the way. What would be your last words for the listeners in terms of Yin Tig performance?
[26:15] Laura: Again, my last words would be know how to love yourself and allow yourself to love yourself at any time of the yes.
[26:27] Katie: Yes. That is so beautiful. It's so important. And onto your radiant image of self love. Oh, it's so lovely and lovely and wonderful. Thank you so much for being on the show today, laura, it has been so great to see you here today.
[26:41] Laura: Thank you, Katie. I love that.
[26:46] Katie: Thank you for listening to the Focus B show. We would love to hear your feedback. Let us know in a review how this episode inspired you. Keep buzzing.