[00:01] Katie: Welcome to The Focus B Show, where Katie Stoddart high performance coach interviews experts around the world in performance and mindfulness. Now, here's your host. Katie.
[00:32] Katie: Welcome to a brand new episode of The focusBY Show. And today I'm here with Ddem UN Ates. Ddem is a Tech Women 100 Champion and was voted one of the top 50 most influential Turks in the UK. Thank you so much for joining the podcast today, Ddem.
[00:50] Didem: Thank you so much for having me, Katie. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:54] Katie: Thank you. Didem. As I have read, you are really passionate about diversity and inclusion. I'm wondering, how do you promote these in your field of work?
[01:06] Didem: Well, thank you. So mean. There are so many ways I prefer the execution. In other words, there are many ways of promoting diversity and inclusion from, let's say, a communication perspective. You can speak at conferences, at podcasts like this, or write blogs, which I always tried my best to participate in. But quite frankly, Katie, my angle is always focusing on implementing an impactful project at scale. Big thinking, big dreaming. That's what really excites me, actually, in terms of promoting diversity and inclusion in my field.
[01:54] Katie: And how do you put in practice this? Big thinking and big dreaming. I like these terms.
[02:00] Didem: Thank you so much. So we try to have a few pilots. For instance, I can give an example from our work at Microsoft, which actually was going to expand at Accenture as well, but then pandemic happened. So it's kind of on hold at the moment. But what we did is we implemented some hackathons for girls, especially high school girls. We did these in three or four cities both in Europe and US, like Seattle, San Francisco, New York, and then we had some bigger events in Athens and London where we said, this is very impactful. We proved it to our stakeholders that these make a change. They create a buz. It's not just that standalone event with, let's say, 40 girls, but you can actually make a change in the ecosystem and create awareness. And when a company like Microsoft or Accenture is behind these initiatives, it really creates scale. So we did these pilots and then we went back to our stakeholders in Microsoft's AI, marketing, education, philanthropies teams and our partners like Avanad and Accenture at the time to say, look, this is amazing. Can we do this together and can we do this at scale? So then it became part of a country AI plan. So the pandemic changed. Unfortunately, the scaling effort a little bit, but I very much look forward to going back and picking up once we are able to travel again.
[03:40] Katie: That's amazing. It is so great to put these things in practice and to actually see an impact from the events you're doing.
[03:46] Didem: Yes. And you see it in the participants. I mean, they come into a Saturday morning, the hackathon, for example, completely shy, timid can I do this? This is about me, data AI hackathons. I don't even know what a hackathon is. And then Sunday evening, they completely excited over the moon. They wouldn't even stop talking. So to see that change just in 48 hours is incredibly meaningful and inspiring.
[04:15] Katie: That's wonderful. And I'm wondering, why do you feel that it's important to have more women in the tech industry?
[04:23] Didem: Oh, this is a hard one to answer, Katie. I could talk for hours on this topic, but let me try to summarize. I've been in the data AI space for probably last five years. Five, six years, starting with AI startups. And you see how amazing these technologies are and how much we can change the world for the better through these powerful technologies. However, they do come with their challenges and risks, of course. And these challenges and risks, unfortunately, in my observation and research, impact minorities and especially females in, let's say, detrimental ways. One is data is biased. So if you don't have diversity, let's say, in the pool, you have limited data for these minorities, like female data, and whatever you feed into the solution, you get garbage in, garbage up. So data has to be ensured that it's inclusive and not biased and so on. Then the products are being developed by the majority for the majority. Nobody in their right mind wants to do anything wrong. It's just that's how, let's say, a male white male brain works, and that they have their own experiences, therefore they try their best to come up with the best solution. But it's just the white male mind, let's say. So that's why it's incredibly important to have a diverse product development team to create the right solutions for not just majority, but also minorities. And thirdly, job automation. Of course, job landscape will change. I'm not scared of this. Actually. All of these changes will bring the best in humanity. People will need to think about their life's, meaning their life's goals, harder than ever. Because if all tasks are taken care of by AI data, robots and so on, you have to think about what we really want to do as an organization and as an individual. So this is a good thing. However, this transition, again, is impacting the minorities and females the hardest. That's also why we need to have females in technology, especially data AI space, more than ever. So I don't have the latest statistics, but before the pandemic, at least, we were at something like 1012 percent female in data AI space. Technology might be slightly higher, like the broader technology ecosystem, but not much. I mean, maximum, let's say 20%, depending on the country. But that's not enough. That's not good enough. And unfortunately, after the COVID we know that minorities and especially female tech talent were hit the hardest as of May, at the end of the first wave, not even the second wave we are going through right now we know that layoffs furloughs impacted female workers much more than male workers. In technology, childcare pressure to be productive, according to a Forbes article, hit female workers harder than male workers. So that's why actually, more than ever, we need to increase diversity in tech. So sorry for the long answer, but I think those are kind of the key reasons why we need more diversity.
[08:19] Katie: I liked what you said about what comes in makes a difference to what comes out. So if you only have one perspective, it doesn't matter if it's white males or even if it was just colored females or whoever, but if you just have one perspective, then it only suits one perspective for the other people because you can only really understand your own audience. So I think that was a really beautiful way of explaining why diversity actually matters so much. I'm also wondering, with everything that you do, so you're like managing director at Axel Cho, you organize these hackathons, you have a lot of different projects. I'm wondering, how do you manage to do all of this? Because I'm thinking this is maybe a bit of a, I don't know, productivity question or balance question, but I'm always impressed by high performers like yourself, because that's why I have a podcast on high performance, and I think it's a lot of different things to take on. So how do you manage to find the balance between all these different projects?
[09:18] Didem: Thank you so much. And by the way, my congratulations to you, Katie. You're doing an amazing work. It's such a meaningful area. So I don't have a magic formula, but I do know that for me to feel whole and happy with myself, sleep well at night job is not just a job. It's a holistic. Let's say combination of many things. Of course, you need to bring in revenue, do good partnerships, do good client work. That's a given. But around that, it is very important for me personally to feel good about what am I giving back to the society? How am I balancing my relationships with my friends, my teammates, my colleagues? Am I inspiring them? Am I being a good role model? And of course, my family time. So I actually have a visualization board where, okay, this is what I do in education and technology. This is what I do for diversity and inclusion. And I really think of that visual almost every morning. And of course, life also channels you, gives you space to contribute a bit more in one area more than others. In some period, you can't be precisely, okay, 10% is temp, but sometimes maybe you're going through a transition at work, so you have some downtime for other things where you can do a Girls and AI hackathon, for example. That's how I try and I look at it maybe every quarter or every year, how am I doing? And pat myself on the back or slap myself in the face, not the latter, but I try to celebrate my friends and my team's achievements.
[11:15] Katie: I love this concept of the vision board and sort of keeping it in mind all the time. I think that really helps. And are there times that you feel that overwhelmed or like you've taken on too much?
[11:29] Didem: Well, actually, if there is one learning I got from the COVID experience, it's probably this. Because, yes, there were many times when I felt like I want to do that. There are so many amazing things to do. Right? But I had COVID in April and I had two relapses from it, so I took that experience. There was a day when I couldn't really breathe. So it really makes you think about, of course, death and how close it is and so on. So my takeaway from those three experiences with COVID was DDAM get your act together because this is Universe's way of telling you to slow down. Because I had the relapses for a like, we were doing an amazing humanitarian project at work and I was so excited, I wanted to get back to work. And then I had a relapse and then another one. So long story short, Katie, I think I learned the hard way. I don't want to make a big statement or not. Maybe I didn't learn it well enough. But for now I am keeping a very close eye out on my health, my sleep, even my heart rate through my Fitbit, thanks to my Fitbit, when things are showing bad signs for my health, I slow down, I meditate, I take a walk, I try to take a nap. And that really comes first. I learned it too late, but health really comes first.
[13:03] Katie: Wonderful. And it's so great to hear this from such a high performer like yourself, because I'm constantly promoting well being and health and meditation. But of course, until you actually experience it and like you said when you had the relapse, that's when you really realize how much it matters. So it's great to hear your experience and what you went through to come to this.
[13:23] Didem: Thank you.
[13:24] Katie: In a sort of similar direction, but slightly different. As a leader yourself, what are some of the key aspects of self leadership that you actually practice?
[13:35] Didem: Amazing question. So some of it started very early on, completely unconsciously. Katie I think early on, maybe in secondary school, high school even. So some of the leadership principles I recently needed to do a speech for Women Tech Network, actually. So it's kind of along the same lines. I think. First of all, for me, I always dream big. Even if I get 60% of that dream, that's still an achievement. But I try to think big, dream big. I don't label things or as impossible. Oh, I cannot do it. That's not for me. I just don't even think like that. So dreaming big and thinking big is very important. For me, the second thing I learned on the way in terms of self leadership is breaking my own glass ceilings, my mental, let's say, constraints. I really wish I learned that much earlier because the earlier you break out of your comfort zone, break those feelings that we create for ourselves, the better it is, especially as a female in technology. So that came very late, but I enjoyed it once I was able to do that. The third thing I would say is building a tribe. I mean being fans of others and creating fans for ourselves. I don't mean by tribe. I don't mean acting tribally, territorially or something. I mean no one in this age, especially in technology sector, can do anything alone. There is no more space for silos anymore. That's like 50 years old thinking. So if we are aware of that front and center, you have to make sure you're helping others and you are inspiring others to help you as well. And it's so much more fun that way. So that was another self leadership thing. And maybe one, I mean there are a few more, but in the interest of time, I'm going to add probably one, two very important ones. One is volunteering. So by volunteering, what I mean is not having you're thinking big, you're dreaming big, but taking one baby step at a time. So while you're taking one step, you think about your next two steps, let's say, and try to find volunteer projects to try out those 2nd, 3rd steps to see do you really actually like them? Do you really want to go there? And by volunteer project you are not taking too much risk, you're just trying. You haven't signed a contract yet. That's not your next role. But in my experience, all my roles, especially after my first one that got me into Microsoft, for example, in 2012, became a real job. There was never a wrong volunteer project. I loved it so much. I loved the teams I met so much. It became a real job. And that way people get to know you. They like the fact that you're giving something, let's say giving something free and also you're introducing yourself. And finally, most important of all, absolutely most important of all is embracing obstacles, crises, constraints, I'm sorry to say, obnoxious people, horrible projects as your springboards. I really mean this, Katie. I mean, without this mindset, this last bit. Like seeing crises or constraints as a springboard for your growth, to accelerate your path to your dream is so important because then you say, okay, how do I turn this upside down so it actually serves my purpose? Rather than I get intimidated or I give up or I get stressed. This last one is by far the most important self leadership thing principle I try to stick to.
[18:15] Katie: I love all of these. I love the image of the glass ceiling and sort of pushing through it. It's always such a beautiful metaphor and also the importance of working with teams. And I love what you just said about obstacles as springboards. I think every leader we meet and every person that we admire always says to learn from failure and they always have a different way of formulating it.
[18:39] Didem: Apologies, I was just going to say it may be helpful for our listeners, for visual listeners, let's say, to share the analogy, I visualize the lotus flower, for instance, in these situations because lotus flower, it's such a gorgeous one, my favorite flower, and yet it grows in the most disgusting, smelliest, muddiest waters. So I always think of that when I come across a difficult situation. I just think what kind of a lotus flower can I nurture in this situation? So actually it turns into a beautiful thing, it turns into an advantage. Sorry to cut you off Katie, but yeah, I was just wondering if that might help our listeners.
[19:31] Katie: I love this metaphor and I think maybe I'm also quite visual and I feel that having an image we can see in those moments is really, really helpful. I often think about digging in a cave and not knowing when the diamonds are. So when I'm feeling discouraged, I think I maybe just need to dig one more. And then a client of mine told me this and I thought that was also a beautiful image, but that's more about resilience. So I like yours about learning from failure or finding the beauty rather in hard circumstances, which is wonderful. And in my case it's more about resilience. So if you're looking for a publisher, publish your book. Well, maybe it's just the next one. So this image of perseverance, I love that too.
[20:14] Didem: Super important.
[20:18] Katie: So many different aspects of self leadership. Thank you so much for sharing all of this today. Didem is there anything else that you would like to share with the listeners that you feel we haven't dived into in the last few minutes that we have before leaving?
[20:32] Didem: Thank you so much Katie. First of mean, this has been such a pleasure for me as well. I guess the only other thing I would like to add is diversity and inclusion. We always talk about it, there's so much focus on it in the media and of course in almost all the organizations one can think of. I would like to emphasize that diversity is almost a given in this age. It's hard to find, at least in technology sector, any organization that is not. However, I find that inclusion is the thing that we just couldn't crack yet. And that comes in so many flavors, all of us. It's really up to all of us, every one of us to be mindful if we are personally and organizationally acting inclusively in everything we do. It could be a simple meeting, day to day actions. It could be old timer employees in an organization versus new employees it could be gender, ethnic, and in this world, especially post COVID world, I see that that has become even more important than ever as well. So thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts on this podcast. Really appreciate it. I really hope we have a big impact in these issues. On these issues, definitely.
[22:11] Katie: Thank you so much for sharing all of your insights. And thank you for this last part on inclusion, although that's really important. Where can the listeners find you? DDAM.
[22:22] Didem: My doors, emails, everything is open. I'm on Twitter. DDAM underscore unscore atesh. I'm on LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out for anything. As I said, I'm all for collaboration and joining forces. Great.
[22:40] Katie: Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. Di dem.
[22:43] Didem: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Bye.
[22:47] Katie: Thank you for listening to the Focus B show. We would love to hear your feedback. Let us know in a review how this episode inspired Fired you keep buzing.