Katie: Welcome back to the Focus B show. This is Katie Sudddart here aka the focus b. And on this show, I interview high performers and leaders around the world to discover their secrets on peak performance, productivity, mindfulness, and leadership. So if you want to take your performance and your leadership to the next level, then you're in the right place. Listen up and connect with the magic.
Katie: Such a joy to be with Ilynya Vidili on the show today. Elenia is a passionate customer centricity advisor. She's also a keynote speaker and the author of Journey to Centricity. She helps businesses to think differently and to improve customer focus. Thank you so much for joining the show, Eden. Yeah. Very excited to have you here today.
Ilenia: Thank you so much, Katie. It's so nice to have me to be here and to be interviewed.
Katie: Thank you. I think a great place to begin because I know that you're the author of Journey to Centricity and you wrote this book that focuses on customer centricity. I'd love to know what are the sort of core three pillars of your book.
Ilenia: Well, thank you so much for asking this question. It makes me really grateful that people are interested in one of the hardest piece of my work and the most rewarding as well. So thanks for asking. So, Journey to Centricity is a roadmap for business leaders to help restructuring their business from product centric to customer centric businesses. It's divided into three main sections that I call Pillars, and these are Humanity, Technology, and culture. So the first one, so the humanity pillar is the one that I put at the beginning because I believe it's one of the most important sections of the book. And it talks a lot about reasons why companies are alive. Why should we buy from these companies? So he touches on upon elements of humanity, for example. So, the human factor of a business, how are we more human towards our customers? You know, so and this side of the business talks a lot about sorry. This side of the book talks a lot about corporate social responsibility. How are we more human with customers through our empathic Human Touch CSR, but also how we can build trust and earn trust with customers. So it talks a lot about the soft side of a business that is actually crucial in today's AI world. So that's the first section. Second section, as I said, is the technology pillar, which reasons the how. So it answers the how questions, and specifically, it talks about how customer centric companies use the necessary technologies as enablers and this is a very important word, enablers for delivering their customer experiences. So here I explore things such as customer centric innovation, product innovation or services, innovation and ease of use. So how easy is for a customer to interact with that product or service or a company itself? And I talk about hyper personalization, so the use of data to hyper personalization to improve the lives of interaction of those customers. So it's a lot about humanizing technology and having the right balance between the human factor, the technology in a business because we're living in a world where artificial intelligence is taking the main stage and we shouldn't forget that we're also human beings and we interact with human beings not only with machines. So for me it was really important to help businesses to have this balance, this huge important balance between one and the other. Now this third section again is one of the most important ones and it talks about the culture of a business and this section reasons the who. So I'm answering the questions why, how and who and it dives into how companies must transform their culture to become customer centric businesses. Here I talk a lot about leadership, of course corporate culture, I talk about the people of the organization and more precisely employees across the company. And I also talk a lot about the bottom line as well. So bottom line as in the customer lifetime value being one of the most important metrics in a business. So these are the main three pillars and as I said, the book basically shares a roadmap that companies can use in their transformation from product centric into customer centric businesses.
Katie: Wonderful. And I think it's so interesting the way you put these pillars together with the humanity then the technology aspect and then the culture aspect because it's true that we might not look at customer centricity through those lens and I also do some company culture consulting so that really resonated with me. So it's interesting to see company culture and how it links with customer centricity. Maybe you can tell us a bit more how companies can pivot or shift their company culture to be more customer centricity.
Ilenia: So I would say a lot of it starts at the top and I don't only say this from a hierarchical perspective, which is still really important, but I say it especially from a vision perspective. So what is the actual vision of the organization? It's not purpose, it's the vision because most not most I would say there are many companies who believe their product is the best and what they do to compete with other companies. They just release a newer version of their product and a newer and more cheaper version of the product. So the competition goes on product and services rather we want to focus more. If we want to become a customer centric business then our focus should be on customers. How can we provide a better relationship, a better way of interacting with customers? Of course, the product is always there and it's always really important. So it's our first like the bare minimum is our product. It should be good, good quality, great price and it should be one of the best in the competition, across the competition. But most of the time we stop there. We forget that we also have experiences, we also have values as businesses and those values should align with customers values and those experiences should align with customer expectations. What I'm saying is our vision is not just about the product, but it should be about serving customers better, right? It should be about creating stronger relationship with our customers. But the most important thing is serving customers because yes, of course we are serving customers with products and services, but are we actually serving customers or are we just selling the next product? It's a different kind of mindset. So it all starts there from a vision, from a strong customer service, customer obsession vision, or however we want to call it, but it starts from there. And obviously at the top we also have the board, our directors, our top managers, our business leaders, who are those that reside at top, obviously are some of the most important people in the organization that take decisions for the customers, but also for our employees. But unfortunately here we have a problem that people at the top most of the times don't know the issues at the bottom. So don't have a customer centric vision, not because they don't want it, but because they don't know what's going on at the bottom, right? So here is the problem with the hierarchical silos that we face in organizations. A vision should be aligned linear, should be linear and not vertical, right? So that's one of the problems. So when I say that a vision should start on the top, I mean also in a leadership, in leadership positions. So everybody should have the same vision, also the leaders of the organization. But those leaders should support it and should model those customer centric behavior across all the employees. So when I say that the gap between the top and the bottom is quite wide, I mean it, there is a huge gap, first of all, in terms of lack of communication on customer problems, for example, or internal problems of the business that don't work quite well for the customer. And also the people at the top should understand what happens at the bottom in order to make decisions for the business and for the customers. Because eventually you're taking decisions for the business, but then they are reverted externally, right, for the customers. So that's why when I'm saying we start a transformation from the top, from a vision, so we should have a more customer focused vision. And second, again from our leaders, if we don't have the support from our leaders, our transformation is basically flow. It flows, it's just stalls. So these are the main things that I believe a customer centric transformation can happen.
Katie: Yes. And what you said about it comes from the top. I mean, 200% for all cultural aspects and for everything, including the customer aspect. Leadership really has a ripple effect on everything, and especially if the leaders don't follow the values or aren't clear on the vision. Even if the rest of the company has some sort of tied values or vision that makes sense. If it's not followed by the top and not role modeled, then that really yeah, it doesn't work. That's one way of exactly.
Ilenia: And also because if we look at it, the people at the bottom say the frontliners for example, they have a more customer centric vision and touch than the people at the top. They're forced to because they talk to customers every day. Right, so that's their job. But we need to embrace a customer centric culture from the top because are those people at the top that take the decisions that allow people at the bottom to have more autonomy on customer, on customer solving problems, for example, on giving more solutions to customers. So we need this kind of alignment between the top and the bottom.
Katie: Yes, and it's interesting, you're talking a lot about products and how that would work with products but I think it's even more relevant if we look at services because then directly our product is in and of itself the relationship with the client. So I'm curious to your perspective if it's a company or a small company or maybe even small business owners and really they focus on services with their clients, how that's even more important, the customer centricity aspect of things.
Ilenia: So my clients are usually big corporations, big businesses, especially in the business to consumer side. But regardless of which sector, which product we sell, we are in the business to serve customers. We are in the business to build those relationships, to keep those customers. Of course we are in the business to sell products and services as well because a company starts from there, right? But as we grow and we become bigger, then we lose touch of customers, we lose those customer focus, that customer focus that we should be instead keeping in the long term. That's the problem. But I believe that regardless of business to business or business to consumer or regardless of which sector we are talking about, we are here to serve customers better. That's our role.
Katie: I like that. And I think if we remember that, not only do we make the world a better place depending on what the product and services are, but also we grow and thrive. And it really feels like a win win, an exchange. And it's not just going out there and trying to make sales or lots of marketing just to earn money and profit for it to climb. Because that's kind of soulless. I mean, money is great, but if that's the only aim of a business, it doesn't have much depth. But if it's to help people to thrive, and then you thrive. And then the whole company culture is around growth and balance and supporting one another and collaboration, really, that's a much more organic way of working and a lot more meaningful and deep. And I'm curious, how would you tie together then the concept of corporate purpose which is also so meaningful and important nowadays with this notion of customer centricity?
Ilenia: So I want to define customer centricity first because I should have done it before. I always say, and this is also a line that you'll find in my book I would say that delivering good positive experiences once, twice or even occasionally doesn't make businesses customer centric. And that's one of the misconceptions that we have because a lot of businesses say, oh, we deliver really good customer experiences. Yes, but are they intentional? Are they intentionally delivered to be good customer experiences or they are just delivered them okay or good by accident, thing number 1. Second, are they consistent good customer experiences? Things number two? And third is a customer centric culture shared across the organization. That's one of the thing that differs customer centricity from product centricity, for example. So customer centric businesses have their customer centric model as a strategy and is shared across the organization. So they put the customer at the center for every decisions they take. And there is always the interest of making the lives of consumers better and easier, right? Not just for the bottom line, but for the customer. So that's the main definition of customer centricity. But going back to your question about linking corporate purpose and customer centricity, let's start from three points here. First one is that new generation of consumers, especially Millennials and Generation Z, want to interact with companies, want to buy and interact with companies that have a higher purpose rather than just selling products and services to maximize profit, which as we know most of the times is seen as detrimental for society. So these are the two generations that I've based my book on. So a lot of the expectations that I talk about are taken based on these two generations for many reasons. But I think the world is changing like all generations are changing towards this way. However, Millennials and Gen Z have strong corporate social responsibility values. They want to see companies to have a bigger purpose, to have a role in society than just selling products. As we said, they lack trust in governments and they believe that companies can help better in addressing societal issues and environmental issues. Now you might say if a company doesn't have the higher purpose or doesn't sell a product that is structured into having a higher purpose, what can they do? Well, I always say why don't we stop ruining our planet instead of we don't have to have a higher purpose if we're not structured in the business. If our business is not structured like that, although we can find it, but instead of having detrimental actions and behaviors towards ruining and towards exploiting resources, why don't we just try not to? Do you know what I mean? That's the opposite side. So first thing is that the way I link it purpose is because the expectations of our customers are clear. And there is a study, a really interesting study that has revealed that customers are four to six times more likely to buy from companies that have a higher purpose, to trust more those companies, to champion more of those companies and to defend more of those companies that stand for having a higher purpose. There was another thing that I think and that my book talks a lot about it is when consumers align themselves with a purpose driven brand it is because they feel a deeper connection based on shared beliefs and know. And we've seen it with Nike for example. We've seen it with Ben Jerry, we've seen it with Patagonia, we've seen it with many other companies. So that's the train in which we are going because we don't have much time in terms of environmental and planet issues that we are facing. We don't have much time and we believe, I included myself in this, we believe that companies can do a lot to help but do a lot not to ruin our planet, to just stay there and not ruin the planet and just behave as ethical. Then the other points that I was going to talk about was that I think I mentioned it earlier so alongside a higher purpose, of course we should be commercial. It doesn't mean that having a purpose is not being commercial, right? It's not making profit. But our main vision as we said earlier is should be serving customers better, right? So instead of having this hyper focus on maximizing profit, why don't we have both? We have a focus on maximizing profit and being commercial, but also a focus on serving customers, which both of them can be if we flip the coin and we only look at and only focus on maximization of profit running a company from the perspective of revenues, cost, balance sheets, sales performance, which is what happens at the top. This is what happens at the top, unfortunately clouds the view of customer relationship and it makes it really hard for us to maximize their health and their values, their value. So we need to have that balance of maximization of profit respecting the planet and the society but also serving customers that links to corporate purpose as well. And the last one, as I said earlier is that the customer centricity starts at the top. So having a strong vision on several customers rather than selling products and just products and just volume. So we should be switching and be able to switch from volume of product to volume of fulfilling expectations, fulfilling needs and creating better customer relationships. Those are different kind of volume, right?
Katie: It's more quality compared to quantity. So in one case we're really focusing on the amount of sales and the actual balance sheet and the numbers and we're forgetting the people side of things. And on the other hand we're looking at our clients renewing? Are we upselling? Are they filling in their satisfactory feedback form and saying that they're really happy with the work done? Are we over delivering? Because I know that Tony Robbins says this, that one of the key ingredients to growing your business to thriving is to over deliver to your clients. And he mentions this over and over again and he mentions Zappos and other places that really had in mind this idea of over delivering. And I think it's because if customers come and they have a certain expectations, if you under deliver then that's it. They're probably not going to come back, right? If you say you're going to return, they can return their things within two weeks and actually it doesn't work, the return policy doesn't work then they'll be like okay, screw this, I'll just find another company. So most people don't go back to companies who under deliver. If you just meet expectations 50 50 chance, yeah, it was good, but there was nothing special. But if you systematically build a habit and this comes from having a customer centric company culture if you systematically build this habit of over delivering then the chances of clients coming back, of word, of mouse, of spreading. So I think when you said we could have both focused, I like that perspective but I also think if most of the focus is placed on are clients fully satisfied, are we over delivering, et cetera, and you put most of your focus on the relationships with the clients then it's going to impact the finance anyway. So it's just smart really.
Ilenia: Yeah, I agree with you. What I was saying about volume is that there is a belief that especially like companies that have targets on, for example, selling numbers of products per month or per quarter without actually and it's not about the product. Sorry. Actually there in that sort of mindset, it's not about the customer, it's about the product, because they need to hit those targets. But by doing that, yes, you sell x amount of products and services or software or whatever we want to call them, but then you lose the focus of customers. So instead of thinking about the amount of products that you should sell think about the amount of customer expectations and needs that you can fulfill, think about the number of relationships with customers that you can build and grow. That's a different kind of volume, different kind of target. I think the business narratives is upside down in a way. We look a lot about maximization of targets and profit and revenues, et cetera. Which is fine, it's absolutely fine. But the way we do it is wrong because it's all in just about numbers and we forget the human side of a business. That's what I was talking about. Yes. And of course if you nurture those relationship as you were saying, they will grow. They'll stay with us for a long term and they will be ambassadors, of course. But that doesn't mean that customers won't buy from other companies. That doesn't mean that customers will not leave us because it will happen. We're human beings. We have different needs all the time. And as we grow and we have different values, different expectations, different needs and wants, we look at other companies as well. Right? That's absolutely fine. Of course. That's what I'm saying. We need to have both customer relationship focus, but also a growth focus, keeping.
Katie: Both aspect in mind. And I'm curious, how do you apply this lens of customer centricity in your own business? So how do you use all the principles and all the things you learn to grow your own business and to support your clients best?
Ilenia: That's a lovely question. It's actually a post that I did, I think a few months back. So customer centricity is all about listening to customer needs and fulfilling those needs. Right? Supporting the customer at the center. How can I help you better? Right. For example, my services are public speaking. So I do a lot of public speaking services for conferences, but also for private clients. I am mostly working for private clients these days and everything is personalized for them. So personalization is one of the key elements of listening to customers and fulfilling those needs. The more we know the those customers on a personalized level and an individual level, the more we are able to fulfill those needs and serve them better. And the way I apply to my business and in my services is that all the workshops that I do, all the books and presentation that I give to my client, they are all tailored, 100% tailored to their sector, to their customers, to their customer behaviors sorry. To their cultural environment. Say, Italy or Spain or Et. They are everything is customized. Even the case studies or the practical advice that I give, or the data, everything is customized exactly for them. For example, if they tell me we want to talk more about empathy and I don't know, technology, for example, and the digital side of our customer experience, then we dig into that. We have an assessment and we talk about their main pain points and we dig into those. And I specifically make, for example, an analogy. There is always an analogy that lands with a strong message in my talks based on where the client resides. For example, if it's a Greek client, then I try to use a Greek methodology, mythology, sorry. And it lands really well because culturally, people like to hear things from their own culture. They like to hear things from their own culture. If I'm speaking in Latin America, for example, I do a speech in Spanish. So there is this sort of connection, right? I try to connect with my audience like this, with analogy and also with the language, if I can. I cannot speak all the languages, but I try to do my best. Then that's one thing so personalization. There are many other elements that I try to apply. Flexibility in terms of dates, for example. I'm flexible with the design. Some of my clients want the design to be more high end, a little bit more simplistic, a little bit more so everything is about them. So everything is personalized with them. Some of my clients asked me to have an easier English, although I think my English is quite easy and simple to understand. But some of my clients ask me to talk quite plain and easy and slow down. It's all personalized. Basically. I'm very flexible with the dates as well. And I try to accommodate the date's needs, whether it is a workshop, whether it's a speech. So mainly it's about listening to what they need and try to fulfill those needs.
Katie: Such a wonderful example of how you actually apply it because people listening, whether they run and lead an organization or if they have their own business, they can really get inspired by what you're sharing. So not just from a theoretical perspective, how it works and why it's important, but also think, okay, this is how she does it. Really listening, really tailoring, really taking into account their preferences, cultural preferences. I mean, how many organizations, when they deal with another organization, do they even think about how different country it is or culture? Or do they use vocabulary or words? For instance, if it's an American company that works with the French one, maybe they use American slang or keywords that people don't understand in France because they're not used to that dialect or way of speaking. So it's pretty rare, I think, overall if we haven't learned to and if we haven't built that awareness to actually tailor our either work or workshops or speech to the other person's needs. But if you learn that and if you realize how important it is and if it feels good because afterwards you can see the reward and you can see how people are happy and I'm sure you experience this a lot, then it's just like anything, it's just a behavior that can be learned.
Ilenia: Exactly as you said. There is a lot of analysis behind it before a workshop gets done or a speech is done. There is a lot behind a lot of assessment and a lot of course you need to give them practical advice. That's what they need. They want value as companies deliver value to customers. I am there to entertain, to inspire them to change, but also I want to give them value in terms of practical things that they can do from day one. That's what they, you know, they want to meet and yeah, I'm there to deliver value. Yes.
Katie: And that's what we all want to do, right? That's what we all want to bring into the world. Wonderful. What a lovely note finish on Elenia. This has flown by. Thank you so, so much for joining the show and for sharing all your wisdom. What's the best way people can get in touch with you so they can.
Ilenia: Get in touch to me on LinkedIn, Elena Vidily or my website? Eleniavideli.com amazing. Thank thank you you so much for having me. Katie thank you.
Katie: Thank you so much for tuning in today to the Focus Be show. I would absolutely love to hear your feedback. So let me know in an Apple review or YouTube comment what what was most valuable for you, and feel free to share this episode with a friend or a family member. Wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused day ahead.