[00:00] Katie: Welcome back to the Focus B show. This is Katie Sudddhart here, aka the Focus B, and on this show, I interview high performers and leaders around the world to discover their secrets on peak performance, productivity, mindfulness, and leadership. So if you want to take your performance and your leadership to the next level, then you're in the right place. Listen up and connect with the magic.
[00:36] Katie: Fantastic to have Manuel Judice on the show today. Manuel is a London based life and executive coach, and he's known for his ability to enable transformation in individuals and organizations. He's been featured in multiple British national newspapers, and he shares his tools, ideas, mindsets around personal growth and how we can actually step into being and step away from doing to create greater transformation and growth in our lives. Wonderful to have you on the show today, Manuel. How are you?
[01:11] Manuel: I feel great, thank you, Katie. It's great to be here.
[01:15] Katie: Amazing. I was looking through your profile before we spoke today, and I noticed that one of the areas you specialize in is mental fitness. And I really like that because I think a lot of us often talk about mental health, and I think more than anything else, mental fitness, that's what it's all about. So I'd love to hear what are some of the tools, the habits, the strategies you have around mental fitness?
[01:41] Manuel: I love that you picked up on that because I agree with you for quite some time. I always got exposed to the wording. I'm based in London here, so I've lived here for 15 years. So mental health can have a little bit of a kind of negative connotation, I noticed. And to me, a huge part of the work that I do around mental fitness is around reframing. So how do we get to look at the next, let's say, three to six months and envision a future and a lifestyle that could be healthy, could be physical, it could be mental, could be business wise, where we feel a lot more energized and positive. The quality of our conversation is a lot higher. We can get more a lot more connected. When it comes to mental fitness, to me, it's really about creating an environment where when I work with our clients, it's very safe and secure, but at the same time, I tend to try and raise the bar a little bit for what's possible bring an element of challenge to that. I came across a few years ago a quote and a concept about the 4% rule, which is basically, if we are constantly through our journeys, our daily lives, when I work with clients, but also individually, if we never challenge ourselves, we tend to become complacent. If our current challenge is 4% higher than our current skill level and we play in that area, that's our zone of genius. And to me, when it comes to mental fitness, the zone of genius where we stretch but we don't get overwhelmed by a challenge is what I try and tend to bring in a coaching conversation when I work with clients. That's the area where we don't get overwhelmed, we're not stressed out. And I think it's my job as a coach to connect first and make sure that we are sustaining a certain level performance then stepping outside our zone of comfort. But at the same time we don't push beyond that because that becomes a bit detrimental to the person. So to me, mental fitness is almost like dance between the work that I do with a client and myself where we're trying to understand what's needed at this moment in time and trying to navigate it upwards in a way they feel safe but at the same time it allows for growth.
[03:58] Katie: That's interesting. It's funny that you mentioned 4% because I have the feeling when I get out of my comfort zone, it's more like 70%, just an impression. Sometimes I say, whoa, out of comfort zone. It doesn't feel like 4%. But I like how you say it's a balance. Because what I noticed, and maybe you also feel this as a coach and maybe other coaches or high achievers out there feel this, is that we might overstretch and sometimes we might take on a bit too much or feel a bit overwhelmed or a bit too pushed. And then it's important to recognize that I know that in my case when I feel the okay, it's a bit further out of my comfort zone than I realize. Maybe I don't stop that activity or turn it down or go away because it's huge opportunity for growth. But in those moments I know I do extra self care or extra pausing or make really fully sure that I switch off totally at the weekend and really nurture myself so that I have that energy and that mental space. Maybe extra meditation, extra walks when I take on bigger challenges. But I think more than anything else, it's realizing when we've taken on something too big. Now I realize that most people listening to this are probably too much in their comfort zone. So don't listen to me do the challenging and scary things. It's just if you're one of these overly bold people that jump headfirst into everything, you might sometimes want to be taking care of yourself and acknowledging that it's a big step. And the funny thing is, and you probably see this also with comfort zone is obviously different things are comfortable and different things are challenging for people. So out of comfort zone experience could be. I mean, I'm happy to share one of mine and maybe you can share one of yours too. I'd love to hear. I know that in my case, just doing a three day silent meditation retreat, not even the ten day Vipassana, just the three day that was totally out of my comfort zone. I was super nervous before and I meditate every single day for years now. But just the idea of not talking for three days, that was terrifying. That was harder for me than talking on a stage or doing a podcast with amazing guests. That was really hard. And some people, it's just like one of the clients I work where she was going on a Vipassana and she was I'm really looking forward to it. It'll be great. I'm like, yeah, it's great, but are you a bit scared? Like, ten days? So, yeah, that was one thing out of my comfort zone. Well, how about you? What have you done, maybe recently or at some point that maybe not everyone would see as out of their comfort zone, but that was hard for you.
[06:30] Manuel: I just want to share. I love, first of all, what you said about you being operating at 30%. It's really relatable. I'm working with a client is incredible. He's built a business from scratch. He's not from here, and in 2003, he didn't have a business and management education, but he was so passionate about his product and he literally built a business by knocking door to door. And that's something that you don't do much of that these days. But he's so determined, it's so focused, it's so kind of involved in so many activities that one of the things we had to do to your point is slow down, which is I heard this expression years ago and I found it to be so valuable. Slow down to speed up. And that means different things to different people. The way exactly. We're pointing out meditation, going for walks. For me, I love walking particularly could be of a leafy areas around here, which is fantastic. For some people, they're a little bit more active, they like going on holidays and things like that. But that slowing down was so powerful because I had to learn it myself years ago when I was so hard heating and trying to this is my checklist. I'm going to complete everything at the end of the day, no matter what. Right. And over time, that's not sustainable in terms of what you just said. What gets me out of my comfort zone? As I was sharing earlier, I've started doing a little bit of public speaking and I've done quite a bit over the last six months. And kind of to link to that anecdote is I'm from Italy, originally from southern Italy. I moved to London in 2008. And one of the limiting beliefs, if you will, that I had before I came here was about English is not my first language. So I forced myself to sign up to improv comedy class. It was like a six month program, right way out of my comfort zone. Probably way ahead, way more than 4%. But what I found is that even though I practiced for hundreds of hours, literally, we did some stage performance. And even now, when I go and speak in public or when I mess myself in an environment. Sometimes I go in dancing when I meet people. That is different, that is a public environment and you have to relate to groups of people. That stretches me. I love socializing, but the recovery time is a bit longer. It takes a bit more time for me to get back into it and feel reenergized again. And obviously socializing is something that's very easy to do in London. So there's plenty of opportunity for me to be in my 4%.
[09:10] Katie: Amazing. And it's so interesting how different people react to different things and it's having that awareness and that knowledge, self knowledge, where we know what is a bit of a push and what isn't. And something else I realized, and this is a bit linked to what we discussed off air, which is different environments can feel differently at different moments of our lives. So something that I know I'm guilty of is accepting a project or a client or an idea or a talk and thinking, oh, this will be easy, it'll be great, because at that moment, I'm in a really good know, maybe I've just had a talk with you, Manuel, and I get an email and I'm all fired up and yeah, amazing. A week before, two weeks before, a month before, I suddenly realize, oh wow, I actually need to do this. It's not just a fun concept. And so the dream to the reality is sometimes a bit of a shock for me. Sometimes everything feels easy when I'm in a dream, happy, excited state and when it turns into reality and needs to be put into action. Sometimes it's more nerve wracking than I realize. Depends what.
[10:21] Manuel: I love that and it's very relatable. I'm fairly visionary and future oriented and I envision things. I think I was watching, if I remember correctly, one of your videos on your channel as well. I don't remember the words right, if I remember correctly, which is your ability to really vividly see and envision what it could be like. You envision it, but also you feel it, you hear it and you kind of anticipate it. And I can see that on me because I'm very visual, I'm very future oriented. However, then there are steps to kind of build that thing right. To me, that's the beauty of coaching, in having a little bit of accountability. But also it's harder times, particularly now, and everyone is different, but having a support ecosystem and people that kind of support you and lift you up. And sometimes we need accountability, sometimes we need to slow down, sometimes we need a word of encouragement and kind of finding the balance. It's a bit of a journey. The beauty of it is enjoying the moments of it, like everyone says. But sometimes we don't feel like that. So we need that environment that is both protective and challenging and that kind of move us forward. Yeah, I kind of added to that. But the way you're describing it perfectly matches some of my challenges as well because, okay, here's their vision. It's all on my vision board, and it's all worked out, okay, let's go make it up. And it sometimes takes longer than a lot or a lot longer than expected, but here we are.
[11:59] Katie: Amazing. Yeah. It's so interesting how all of these things, just how the mind works and getting out of the comfort zone and so many thoughts and ideas around what you said. I want to come back to what we discussed a bit of here, which is how different environments shape us. So both of us, we're not from the country we are currently residing in, and we've moved around and been to different places. And we have probably noticed how much our environment has shaped our thoughts, our behaviors, but also our peer group and who you spend time with. So I'm curious, how do you help clients to deal with these changes, these challenges? Maybe how they're impacted from their peer group, if they have a peer group that doesn't support them. Or maybe on the other hand, if they have a peer group that they're all doing Iron Men out there and you're only starting to get into running, how do you deal with that comparison aspect also? So I guess that's a lot of questions in one. I suppose the core question is how can we shape ourselves in a way that fits us and not just the environment we're in?
[13:07] Manuel: I think one of the things that comes to mind, as you're asking, that is, like you said yeah, there's different layers to the answer. For me, I think the ability to apply self care is really important. Really important, because I think we can't really see clearly what it is and what we do and how we approach life, how we interact, how we're engaging, if we're going too fast. One of the analogies that come to mind, my dad used to be a car racer in southern Italy, and I never knew anything about car. I don't have that passion. But he was my dad, so I just followed through. Right. And when you do, like, a local rally car racing, he's a driver and you sitting next to it. Now, his view is very narrowed to the road, and fairly so because you don't want to crash the car that's very fast speeds. But as a copilot, it's for you to widen the view and almost predict the turns. You read out the turns. Now, this is not a strict analysis with coaching, but I think the importance of self care for me and be able to slow down is we can't be really, truly aware of what's happening around us, how we're relating to others, how we're leading others, how we're leading ourselves, how we're treating our own bodies. Unless we slow down our views, we are a little bit like in a survival mode at times now sometimes it's survival because we have to pivot our businesses. Sometimes survival because we are part of cultures, we are part of groups and organizations that think in a particular way. We don't feel we want to go against the grain. So all of that kind of put a lot of pressure on us. So I think there is great value on slowing down and analogy high as a person, as a human being. What is it that I need right now? What will put a huge smile on my face? What would it connect with my intuition? What is it that I need? And it sounds, I think this sounds quite kind of basic, but I really believe that particularly here, the clients I work with, the environment in London and the people that I meet on a regular basis, there's a lot of high achieving that we're trying to build people, businesses, get into great relationships. But I think all of these things can happen only if we come from a place of being happy, joyful, grateful, connected, as opposed to constantly on a place of doing so. For me, the first step is let's slow down and reconnect. Let's make sure that we get a little bit of a balance and let's forget about the doing for this. From the time being, the moment we reconnect, we better weekend off with our friends, maybe some time alone, depending on the person, or maybe meditating, or maybe going on a holiday. That level of receptivity I think for me is the precondition to start building from and that level of receptivity. I love these sessions because when I work with the clients, particularly, we have longer session, two hour sessions when we get to go really deep and reflect. After you've taken some time off, what are the things that you value? What are you curious about? What have you discovered about yourself that you would not have done if you hadn't taken that time off? That level of depth, once we are reconnected ourselves, creates clarity. And clarity sometimes means that you know what, Manuel? There are different tools we could use, I can talk about later. But one of the key I noticed that this particular work environment, this particular setting, this particular relationship is not aligned to where I'm going personally, professionally. And there is a bit of a mismatch, which doesn't mean that it doesn't lead frantically to moving things along and cutting people off. But there is an element of awareness because self awareness is the precursor to self development or self growth. And from that slowing down. So self care first, self awareness and reflection. Then we can look up and start, okay, what could we doing differently? What can we do in the next three to six months to actually change our lifestyles? The way we relate to it, the way we lead our businesses, the way we lead ourselves. Sometimes about bringing about. So what comes from and the first step is action. What comes from it is sometimes we have to bring tiny adjustments. This person I was working with, he's a small business owner as well. He's been successful over the years and is very good at selling. That is one of his key strengths. He's a very good salesperson, he believes in product. But at the same time, he's not so skilled management and like Admin, it drives him insane. Once I saw I went to visit him, he showed me my office with papers all over the place, which is quite interesting. But the moment he realized that actually 70% to 80% of his time was dedicated doing things that were outside of his area of genius, that was the kind of a moment that he discovered and learned about when he's low down. And from that moment on, we started working on mindset. Okay, do we have to kind of have control different aspects of the business or can we find someone that, you know, like and trust that potentially gradually take away some work from you? So the third element of it is taking action. And this is a fairly big action in that context, but sometimes it's about changing completely. Some people decide to leave our jobs and go and do something else. That is more of a dramatic changing career. But that element of slowing down I think is absolutely important.
[18:57] Katie: Yes, 200%, they're slowing down. The being before the doing and the fact that having that rest or what you call the self care that enables us to heighten our self awareness. Because it's true that if we're in a daily pace that's very fast and we're constantly rushing and we're under that dopamine constantly dopamine hit and multitasking and notifications and emails, then the work becomes very, very shallow because we're not able to think as deeply. Now, as coaches, we learn this because if we want to provide transformation for our clients, we need to have the ability to listen deeply, to ask deep questions, to able to hold the silence and to go to that extra level of depth. Now, if we're constantly rushing around and doing a million different things, we're not able to get to that level of depth. So I like this idea of the self care first. And it reminds me of literally my day because I took more than two hour lunch break and I did a breath work session. And at the end of the breathwork session I remember thinking, where am I? What day is it? And just thinking, I can't believe this is Tuesday lunchtime. It felt very OD, felt a different universe. But then how much more energy do I then have for our podcast interview? Or how much more energy do I then have for talking with the people in the co working space? How much more energy do I then have for the business call I have to have after this, et cetera, et cetera. So the self care first, then the self awareness. From that self awareness we can take the actions. This is for instance, the doing that came after my being at lunch. And I like it that way because I feel that there's this misconception nowadays that if we do a lot, we can then have being right. If we do do like crazy, then we can afford a holiday off or we can afford to take a weekend off as a business owner. And I think the way you said it is right is first let's just prioritize at least weekends off, for instance, or certain evenings, longer evenings off or like in my case today, a lunch break off, whatever it is. But certain moments that are pure, I won't call disconnection, but they're actually reconnection, you know what I mean? Disconnection from technology, reconnecting with yourself and others. And from those moments the doing has so much more quality, so you need to do less of it.
[21:19] Manuel: I love what you're saying and it is a genuine challenge. It is generally difficult. And then, I mean, I'm a human myself and as coaches we also bring ourselves into the conversation. But I think there is a I heard this quote once, we tend to overestimate what we can do in a year and we underestimate what we can do in a decade. I can't quite remember who said it and that's why some of the pushbacks that I receive when I mentioned I was slowing down, I can't slow down. Everything is happening, everything is of me. I'm responsible for everything and it is true. But actually one of the reasons why I feel people get discouraged is because there is an underlying assumption that everything has to happen overnight or even implicit assumption that, okay, within three weeks I have to change completely my lifestyle. And in actual terms, we could do it gradually and we can make it in a way that actually you do get to enjoy the process. You stay on track and you look back six months from now, so much has changed. And to be able to stay in that place, I think there's a lot of mindset work and I love you mentioned Vipassana meditation and be able to disconnect a little bit from our own mental chatter. That's one of the things that actually placed to how I try and incorporate this type of mindset and also meditation into the work with clients. Because sometimes objectively out there, there isn't much that is going on. But we tend to try and run very fast scripts that don't help us as much as they used to in the past. And I know we're kind of taking a different conversation, but what you described is really relatable, generally difficult. But I think if we break it down and make it gradual as a process, we mess ourselves in an environment that allows us to do that. Then we look back literally a year from now and we say, you know what? I had no idea I could do this, or I had no idea I could speak in public. I had no idea I could go and do that talk or improv or be a team leader or manager or could apply for this position and get promoted. Because by slowing down and then reflecting, we can actually get more done. But keeping an eye and distancing ourselves from our thoughts. It's something that we have to work towards gradually.
[23:41] Katie: Yes, we do daily work. Not exactly eliminating, of course, the mental chatter, but noticing it and distancing ourselves from it. And from that distance, being able to see, well, is this actually true? And obviously that's how you work on the beliefs when a part of you thinks, well, I can possibly do that, or I'm not good at that, or, that would take too long, or whatever it is distancing enough to see if it comes from fear or if it comes from habits or if it comes from beliefs of people around you. Mostly we can do pretty much anything. I mean, there are some limits, but some ethical limits, but there's also some intellectual and physical limits, but they're way further than we think they are. Right. I was reflecting last weekend and thinking, well, I could probably do an Iron Man if I wanted to. I haven't even done a triadlon, but I'm thinking, there's this guy who's done 50, I think 40 or 50 Iron Man. I'm like, if one person in the world can do 50 of them, for sure I could do one. Now, do I want to prioritize my time and energy and workouts that way? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure me, ten years ago, just the idea of doing a marathon seemed absolutely impossible, and I haven't done one yet. But it's just what we see as limits aren't really limits. Now, we might not want to do this. That's different, but they're not really limits. Everyone can talk on stage, for instance. Some people think they can't. I met this woman who was a TEDx speaker coach, so she was coaching the speakers to talk, and she told me the very first time she spoke in public at a toastmaster event, she was trembling and hiding behind her piece of paper. Literally. I was like, wow, okay. And I thought if she made it to become a speaker coach, pretty much anyone can be a speaker again. They might not want to, but it's possible for everyone because we talk about distancing ourselves from our thoughts. I'd love to hear your perspective of two of the books that I read, and I saw that you put as some of your favorite readings the Untethered Soul and The Surrender Experiment. I actually finished the Surrender Experiment last week and really loved it. So I'm curious, what have you taken away from those books? And how do you use them in your daily life to help you move forward?
[25:57] Manuel: Yeah, thank you for asking that question. That's one of my favorite readings over the last couple of years. I'll give you a little bit more context on how I landed on reading those books over the last two years. I spent quite a little bit of time I'm based in London, so I spent a little time in the London Buddhist Center and Meditating. I was curious about because I heard about meditation and yoga. I wanted to understand the underpinning principles, for lack of a better words, and why do we do things in a particular way? And now I didn't spend thousands of hours, but I spent quite a lot of time. I'd go there quite regularly. So I was learning. I was curious about why does this work this way and why are we doing this and asking questions and interacting and engaging with people there. That also led me to, just out of sheer curiosity, doing a ten week course, the Turn into Eleven Week Course in North London. I did baktivadantamano. It's an Hindu temple. And what they did was they were teaching us the Bhagavagita, which is an indu spiritual book and it's very deep stuff. Now I'm mentioning these two. I'm still in contact, I'm learning and getting quizzes, if you're curious. I didn't have any particular outcome in mind as a result of these experiences. But these two experiences also led me to the books you just mentioned by Michael A. Singer. And it dawned on me, without going too much into the details of I was brought up as a Catholic and in southern Italy, things have moved and I don't identify myself with a particular religion at this moment in time. But one of the things that really dawned on me there was almost like a theme across spiritual traditions that I find it extremely practical is a distinction, is we can approach our daily lives from a perspective of drawing conclusions. Right the very moment I draw a conclusion, I stop seeking because I know it works, so I don't get curious about it. And that is my understanding of the definition of traditional religion. We're not sure whether there is a God, but we draw a conclusion that there is. Hence we commit our belief because we have that belief, we commit to the practices that support us. One of the things I found interesting is one of the definitions that I heard about spirituality, which is we know that we don't know, but we're not going to go draw a conclusion whether God exists or not, but we're going to commit our entire life to be inquisitive about it. And one of the things that Michael A. Singer mentions in one of his episodes in a different setting, in a podcast, he says, life is a little bit like a bird. It's got two wings. Any bird has got two wings. One is self effort, the other one is grace. Now, grace will never materialize itself unless there is self effort. And to me, that really hit me in the context of those books because grace is you kind of committed to a particular cause, something that we feel that is at the core of we are as human beings and we spend time and we experiment and we try things out. And because we are committed to a process, even things when things aren't working out as well, suddenly there are idiosyncrasies things that come out of the blue and come and help you out or help you through a particular problem or challenge. I know we're going really deep here, but the books, those two books really got me to a place of very deep understanding of deep understanding of approaching life from a place of curiosity and never draw conclusion and truly get to connect with the person in front of you. Keep obey my beliefs, my expectations, my assumption that I have about a particular person that might come from a different background, from a profession, from a different country or a language or religion. What if I was to keep that aside for the time being? And what if I were to connect with that person in front of me without making any assumptions about them? So it's a difficult thing to do because we all influence and shape our experiences and the cultures we're part of. But those books particularly got me to a place where what if the entirety of our lives, how we show up, the being we were referring to earlier what if we could do that from a place of curiosity and given the benefit of the doubt as opposed to draw a conclusion about a particular topic or person when we don't know them? I know this is very deep stuff, but I love diving in deep. And I find this to be quite practical as a teaching because even in business, let's say you're running a business and the way you stipulated or you develop your processes up to now, it worked over the last 20 to 30 years but it might not work going forward. And unless I apply that element of curiosity to unless I ask myself what I've been doing over the last three to six months does it save me any longer? Does it save my organization? Does it serve my team? And if the answer is no, then I got some work to do. But a level of inquisitiveness or curiosity can be applied to any area. So that's why we went from the spirituality, for me and then it became highly practical because I try and approach life. It doesn't always work. I'm human. But that type of frame of mind is quite helpful because it kind of helped me to be also open, to change a lot more than I used to.
[31:44] Katie: Yes, I think openness is a really key, important parameter and it's linked in when Michael A. Finger talks about his own journey in the Surrender experiment. There's a lot around surrendering, accepting and huge open mindedness to things that maybe he didn't expect. So I think this is a key one. And I've been reading recently Pemez Chadron and her book Taking the Leap, and she speaks about three natural qualities that we all have that sort of end up blocked. But one is natural intelligence, which of course we bring out when we coach people. And it's what you were talking about, slowing down to get the answers. The other one, she didn't call it love, but it was pretty much that. So obviously caring for one another, which again, we see if we all slow down and we're not stressed and we're in a circumstances where there aren't many people around and maybe it's somewhere really relaxing, like a yoga retreat, for example, then suddenly we're all caring about one another and asking questions and showing empathy so that's naturally present. And the other one is openness, natural openness. And I really like those three because I saw, yeah, if we don't block ourselves, we've got the answers, we're smart, all of us. We've got the caring, we care about one another. There's the empathy, there's the compassion. And that openness is there a bit like when we're children, we're open, there's imagination, there's ideas, there's possibilities. And that's where coaching, as you well know, as a coach, really helps because I think it actually releases those three. So it's not like you're giving stuff to people, you're just removing all the blockages. So these shine through. And one of them being openness, which you just spoke about now, which is key. So, yes, I love that.
[33:29] Manuel: Yeah, it's a bit of a journey, but I think it's an inside out of journey. One of the things that I'm really interested in, and I shared with you earlier that I'm writing a newsletter, is how do we do from doing it to Being. I recently heard about a distinction someone mentioned to me, guy called Richard. Instead of having a to do list, what if we were to have a to be? But it's again, one of the things that I care about through coaching, and for the time being, obviously I work as a coach, but I haven't created a partnership or a community around that. But I sense that's the direction I'm going towards is what if we were to we, generally speaking, people in the healthcare and mental fitness kind of community, what if we were to create an environment where people can really give them permission to slow down? And it's almost like a structured environment. We slow down and we can work on our ability to be without judgment. I like dancing salsa. I've been doing it for years and I do that. There is a salsa series of class as they run close to here. And one of the things that if you're new to it. Now, I've been doing it for years, so I practice quite a lot. But if you're learning a new step with your partner, and the partners always change because we are in circles. We keep rotating, but you end up treading on each other's toes. It will happen. It will happen. But then if the environment is safe, which in this case is safe with Jeff and the team, you kind of don't get defensive about it's. Let's do the awkward together. Let's approach with a big smile on our faces, let's forgive one another. And that's a tremendous space where you don't have to draw a conclusion or get to, you did it wrong and I made a mistake. I trained on your shows, and sometimes you get hit on your chin. And whatever it is, the more complex the step, the more likely it is that that happens. But the environment, there is a tacit agreement where it's okay to make mistakes and it's okay to work through it, and we all do it. And as a coach, I admit to my own mistakes or bring it to the table. Right? Because that's a good environment to work from. And to me, what my senses and I'm trying to experiment with is moving on to trying to create an environment where people can explore being in different ways, making our mistakes. It's priceless because, yes, it might turn up into a three step to do list afterwards, but we might not. But if it doesn't, it doesn't matter because the depth of that experience will enhance me anyway. So I'm fascinated by this. I haven't learned any particular kind of vision. But as I experiment and I see things, all the challenges we've been discussing now about trying to go too fast and trying to move, I think by slowing down and creating such an environment where it's okay to get it wrong to make a mistake and not to having to come out with a three step plan on the back of it, I think, is a transformative space. But again, that's me thinking out loud and probably going back to what you were saying, envisioning things, and then you got to kind of work through and make them happen.
[37:18] Katie: Amazing. Yes. What a wonderful note to finish on. I think it's so important to allow ourselves to make mistakes and have that open mindedness and actually embrace the journey where it takes us. Right. Coming back to the idea of surrendering. Amazing. Thank you so much, Manuel, for being on the show. Where can people find you? What's the best way for them to get in touch with you?
[37:41] Manuel: Well, thank you for having me, Katie, first of all. And thank you for the questions. Very deep. And we went to places where I really like doing, and I love the conversation. I am active on LinkedIn, Manuel Judicia Giudice, and my website is manueljudicia.com.
[37:59] Katie: Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much. For today.
[38:02] Manuel: Thank you. Katie, fantastic evening.
[38:05] Katie: You too.
[38:10] Katie: Thank you so much for tuning in today to the Focus B show. I would absolutely love to hear your feedback, so let me know in an app review or YouTube comment what was most valuable for you. And feel free to share this episode with a friend or a family member wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused day ahead.