[00:01] Katie: Welcome to The Focus B Show, where Katie Stoddart high performance coach, interviews experts around the world in performance and mindfulness. Now here's your host. Katie.
[00:32] Katie: Welcome to another episode of the Focus B. Show. Today I'm here with Stella Masselink. Stella is an innovation consultant and a design sprint facilitator. Stella and I work closely for a year or so and I am so pleased to have her on the show. Thank you so much for joining Sela.
[00:51] Sella: Yeah. Thanks, Katie. I'm really happy to be on the show as well. I've never been on a podcast, actually. Wow, first time on a podcast.
[00:59] Katie: Amazing. What an honor. Thank you. I know that you're very creative from our work together and I'm wondering what sort of structures have you put in place that have helped you to have more structure? That's a strange sort of sentence. Structure. More structure. I meant to say, what sort of practices have you put in place to have more structure?
[01:22] Sella: Yeah, this has been a struggle for a long time because I'm quite creative, personality, so to say. And I think a bit my pitfall is that I get excited when I see a practice that looks like really decent and then it can be quite elaborative. So I get like, okay, I'm going to try to apply it. But many times that failed. So I found actually and also we have worked together as a coach, like you as my coach. And what we kind of discovered I felt is that some simpler practices work better. So for example, I also using not every day but most days practice that you do as well, I think. But you told me that you do it also. It's super simple. Just three things I want to do that day, how do I want to feel that day, which I love as well because it's not only about checking off to Dos, right? So simple things like that. And just using my Google Calendar, it's like my best friend reminders putting I have a certain color for things that I want to do, like planning. Stella and then I just put in the calendar and work 2 hours on that even though I don't always stick to it. So something to improve. Nice.
[02:55] Katie: Yes. I also believe that simplicity works a lot better and it's easy to get caught up by all these fancy productivity methods and planning. But actually at the end of the day, if you manage to stick consistently to something that works and that you enjoy doing, like you're using your Google Calendar or different colors is a great way of keeping track. I use Outlook calendar, but same. Same. That also really helps me. So it's interesting to see what helps you most. And I love what you said about the importance of how you want to feel because I know this is something also myself that I didn't take into account for years. And when I discovered it, I thought, this makes sense. It's not all about what you achieve during the day. It's how do you want to feel? Do you want to feel productive? Do you want to feel creative? Do you want to feel fulfilled, at peace, calm, and then adding that to your tasks?
[03:46] Sella: Love that.
[03:47] Katie: I'm wondering, there's this sort of preconceived idea that says that if you have structure, it helps you to be more free and more creative. Have you found this while putting this through? Have you felt that you have more freedom and more creativity thanks to some of these structured practices you have?
[04:08] Sella: Yeah, sorry. Definitely. Because I feel the times where I didn't have any structure, I felt guilty a lot of the time. So it's like, you feel like you've got so many to do, et cetera, and then you'd never give yourself the time to work on the things that's, like, creative work for you, and you're like, oh, I have this thing to do, and I don't know how much time I still have left before the deadline comes up. So I feel like if you have that and I learned that from another friend as well, he just said, I worked with a friend who I worked with as well, and he said, okay, so how much time do we want to spend on the preparation? Okay, let's say 6 hours.
[04:55] Katie: Okay.
[04:55] Sella: Three meetings, 2 hours each. And then that was the time we'd spent. I was really impressed because I tend to maybe spend also more time than needed on certain things. So it's nice to just decide, okay, for that project, to make it a success, I need to spend that amount of time. And then when you have that planned, you can free flow a bit more for the other time you still have.
[05:22] Katie: Yes. I love this part that you said about the guilt, because I feel that's very true, that when you don't have structure, you always feel you should be doing things. And this takes up a lot of mental space, just like procrastination takes up a lot of mental space. What I've found in my own life and with my clients is exactly this, is that if you have some structure, it doesn't have to be super rigid, but a bit of structure, it helps to liberate other time where you can be more creative in the flow, and it helps to liberate that extra mental space. What are those struggles have you had given that you're very creative? So what struggles have come up for you?
[06:05] Sella: I think what I just already mentioned is, like, spending too much time on tasks as well. Like, oh, there's this course I'm going to teach, and then it's research here, research there. So I think it's just also that in the way you work and I've also learned to be very I'm quite visual. So it's interesting what you said also with the planning that you can use this strength also to help maybe your weakness or your pitfalls, right? So when I work, for example, on a course, I first draw the course, like, okay, this is day one, day two, day three, for example, and then working with postits, for example, and carving out some space for this free flow. This is like, okay, first day, I'm just going to free flow, and I'm going to write, make notes because otherwise it's like every time I see an article, I have this Word document that says research. So even if it's not very structured, at least I put like, the link of every article that I read because otherwise it's like, oh, I read it somewhere, but I can't find it anymore. And even though my system is not as organized, I'd like it to be. But the other day I was like, oh, I remember I researched this, and I don't know exactly where in my slides it is, but I remember I researched it, and then I just looked in my research file and I could find the article again. Also happy.
[07:42] Katie: I feel that there's a lot of different things that work for different people and that as long as you have a method that works, even if it's not perfect, that's already a great improvement. Hence, you feeling happy when it happens. What helped you to spend less time on certain activities? You said that this was one of your main sort of pitfalls. What has helped you manage your time in a way that you don't end up spending too long on certain tasks?
[08:14] Sella: What has helped me because, for example, what I tended to do was every time I give a course, I would reinvent a lot instead of just using the same. So the last time I gave a course, I kept it nearly the same, actually. Okay, it worked pretty well before, so I knew I could keep it the same. I think I just also learned a lot from other people. Again, that's that same friend who I work with, and he would just say he's just much more improvising. This is what I feel like teaching now. I'm just going to go for it. That's what I did. But I don't know if I properly answered your question now. Actually, yes, you did.
[09:06] Katie: You basically said that something that came across was you saying that you trusted basically your previous work in a fail. You didn't feel you needed to reinvent the wheel every time, which I think can be a reason why people spend too long on certain activities is maybe if they feel that they constantly need to redo it, or maybe, yes, they get caught up in things and they just spend a long time. Another struggle that I think is very common with people that have a creative type of personality is the consistency. And I know, to be honest, that I have struggled with this a lot myself. And yes, it's for our type of personality because in some ways Sela and I have similar personalities in the creative realm, it can be difficult, to put it mildly. So what has helped you to be consistent? What sort of practices have you managed to do consistently and what has helped you to maintain this consistency?
[10:06] Sella: Yeah, that's nice that you mentioned that, because that is something that helps a lot also because when you do something consistently, you don't need a lot of planning, actually. So that's a nice thing. And there's something I also learned from you, actually, because I remember in one of our last sessions because I said, okay, now next step is that I'm going to do this planning of a year, then down to three months, then down to a week or whatever. It seems the most logical thing to do. And then you said, look, maybe you can also, if it's not that clear what the steps are, you can also just see what you feel inspired to do instead of saying like, oh, you're going to spend now three months working on a website and then three months on research or the other around. But it's nice to have that flexibility to do what you feel inspired to do. So actually, the advice you told me is do something every day, right? Even if it's just one little action, but do something every day. And I'm not sure I really actually applied it properly, but a few weeks ago, this is maybe another good tip. I have now biweekly sessions with a friend of mine and we kind of coach each other, which is really nice. So in our last session, this came up again. So it's nice to be reminded of that. She said, like, okay, she called it zero sum, I think. I don't know if you also call it like that. And she also said that same thing, like, do something every day. So in her case it was about around social media, like the acts on social media and I and this is a hobby that we also both have in common, actually. I don't know if you want people to know that, sir, we like singing. I said I'm a bit frustrated that I'm doing my breathing exercise, but I'm not really getting into the rhythm of practicing a lot. So we said, okay, let's do something every day. So now for a week I've been doing that, and it's really cool because I just have in my mind, like, do this really small thing. I'm just going to listen to the song that I'm learning, very simple, and then also listen to it and sing along with it. So before you know if you're actually doing a proper practice. Yes, I love this.
[12:38] Katie: I think it's a great way of having consistency just by doing one thing every day. But it doesn't even have to be the themed thing, but just doing one thing towards singing, for example, means that you have that momentum, it helps you build that momentum. And also in general, if it is something that you're doing the same every day. So for example, in my case, I meditate every day, then the power of habit, like you said, means there's less planning involved. It does become more automatic. Then consistency is easier. Personally, in my case, where I've struggled most with consistency, I'm actually curious if this has been one of your main struggles, is boredom. I get bored very easily and when I have the same practice for a couple of months, suddenly I just change. Sometimes I don't even realize I do that. For example, I was doing a lot the Wim HOF breathing on his app. I did that for two months or so. Now I'm not doing it. Now, I meditate, but I don't do the breathing with wim HOF. So I'm curious, have you struggled with boredom from consistency? And if you have, what have you done about it? Or do you have a way to sort of vary your practice so you don't actually get bored with it?
[13:48] Sella: That's a very good question, which I never thought about. So I had to think and talk at the same time because maybe I'm the same as you, that I changed it without realizing that maybe I changed it because I was bored. Or maybe it's more evolved as well. Because when your example is the meditation, I have that too. I used, for example, for two years, I used the same app for meditation headspace. So I was like, you have to buy a subscription. That's quite long time, actually. Right? Two years. So I guess maybe I don't get bored that quickly with something I enjoy. But I did change it, like the meditation practice. But I think in the end we're going to talk more about meditation, right? Because I changed my practice months ago to a new practice. But do I get bored with a habit?
[14:58] Katie: It sounds like because you're enjoying what you're doing and you vary it, that maybe boredom, if boredom comes in, then you manage to somehow avoid it or change the practice or go towards somewhere else, which I think is a healthy way of progressing. I mean, it's the same with me. My meditation, my exercise routine, they sort of evolve. I think the main point is to continue what you feel is important. So if you feel it's important to be singing or to be meditating or exercising, I don't think it matters that much that it's not the identical same exercise routine. I think the point is you're still moving your body and you're feeling healthy. So that's definitely a good way to approach it, to continue what you were saying about meditation, I like this, it's a great topic and I do feel somehow it's really linked to creativity. Have you found that having a mindfulness and meditation practice helps you to be more creative?
[15:53] Sella: Yes, absolutely. This is my savior, actually. Yeah, really? I don't know, more creative or probably yes, but what I noticed is that before I did meditation, even though I'm doing meditation already for seven years or something, so before meditation is already a long time ago. But I do remember that in the early days that I would feel overwhelmed a lot if I didn't do the meditation, because I also have Dyslexia. This goes very together with this creative personality. Right. Or I would forget things more, so I would feel less control is not a nice word, but it was some form of control. I would feel like less in control without meditation.
[17:02] Katie: I understand that. I think maybe control is one way of looking at it, but maybe it's more that overwhelm and stress makes you less sort of present in many ways. And by meditating more, you're more present and then you can manage things better. Maybe it's managing I know what you mean with the word control, but it's true. The word control doesn't sound as nice, but yes, it's more managing everyday activities, everyday situations is easier if you have a meditation practice. For sure. I don't know what I'd be like without it. I'm a very fast paced person, and before I started meditation, I spoke way too quickly. And also, I think this is linked to stress. So it's interesting it showed up in different ways for you and me. In your case it was maybe more overwhelm. In my case, it was a form of stress. And what's interesting, and I feel maybe a lot of people listening will identify with this, is it was stress I wasn't aware of. And I want to sort of insist on this because I feel a lot of people are stressed, but because it's not that high intensity, like heart race, huge pressure, they don't realize that their body is actually constantly under sort of minor stress, constantly releasing cortisol. And it's only when you start meditating or really mindful practice that you notice, oh, actually I was stressed before. It's only by contrast, in my case, it was only afterwards that I sensed this.
[18:43] Sella: Yeah, how about you?
[18:45] Katie: Did you see sort of afterwards? Did it make you realize all the more how overwhelmed you felt?
[18:51] Sella: Yeah, exactly. That's really interesting how you describe it. And also even for health things, because I had this kind of coughing attacks at some point, I remember, and I really thought, okay, I have to overcome this, I have to do meditation. It was like so clear that there was a link in my mind and because it was so annoying, this coughing attack, so I got even more motivated.
[19:27] Katie: That's really interesting, linking it to actual physical health. I mean, I also think of it in terms of physical health, but more in terms of it strengthens the immune system. Because you have less stress and less cortisol, your immune system is stronger. But it's interesting that you directly felt there was a link between coughing and if you practice meditation, it would help you recover from that. So our bodies are a whole and you can't separate the mind and the physical health, and it's all related. And I feel the more we are aware of this and the more we work on all parts, sort of holistically. That's the definition of holistically, all different parts, the more we notice links that we wouldn't have noticed before.
[20:15] Sella: Yeah, interesting.
[20:17] Katie: Seeing the link between actually, I meditate, I cough less.
[20:20] Sella: Right.
[20:21] Katie: Probably ten years ago, when you never meditated in your life and someone had told you this, you would have been like, well, that's not related.
[20:28] Sella: But then later on you're like, oh.
[20:30] Katie: Actually if I healthily like this, I sleep better. And then when I sleep better, I'm less stressed the next day. And you start realizing that everything's correlated.
[20:40] Sella: Yeah, interesting.
[20:42] Katie: Nice. What are your main sources of inspiration for creativity? I want to sort of go back on creativity before we finish. What helps you to feel inspired? So we were talking right now about meditation. Can help you, but do you have any other maybe books or things that you do that sort of help you release that potential of creativity?
[21:05] Sella: Oh, interesting. I think singing, for example, like having a hobby that you feel a bit like expressing yourself somehow, that can help. For me, it's always like talking with people, meeting new people. It's super inspiring for me. And I'm quite outgoing in a certain way that I just read on LinkedIn and I see like, oh, what's that person's profile? Oh, there's some words that looks interesting, I just write them. Or how I met. Interesting. I told you I have like, a new meditation practice, it's called Heartfulness. And how I discovered that was also through LinkedIn, through some I was just working and I was looking at something called Question Storming, which is, by the way, also a good way to be creative. It's just think about questions, generate questions. So I was looking at just googling Question Storming and came across this article, and then I was like, oh, interesting. Who wrote this article? Oh, okay, what's on his LinkedIn profile? Maybe this is a bit creepy. Okay. Then I just went to Ms LinkedIn and said, Heartfulness. Oh, interesting. So I just wrote him and said, oh, I like your article in Heartfulness sounds interesting. Don't remember how I went on. And then he said like, oh, okay, I can actually give you a training in Heartfulness. I was like, really? For free? Because heartfulness trainers don't charge anything. So I said, wow, okay. And then I sort of learned something new. So I think that's one of my main inspirations.
[23:02] Katie: That's really nice, that's really beautiful. And I don't actually think that's creepy. I think that's actually proactive. I think if you look up something and you feel inspired and then you go to the LinkedIn and then you write to them. That shows great proactivity because you're taking something that inspired you and you're not just thinking, oh, maybe I'll reach out one day. You're doing it immediately. And there's a reason why these people write these articles with their LinkedIn link. They want you to connect. They want you to write so you're not being creepy. It's not like you had to search the Internet for hours to find his profile, though. It's like they want to be reached. So, yeah, I think that's really nice and really proactive.
[23:37] Sella: Good. Yeah.
[23:39] Katie: Salad. We're coming to the end of the interview. Where can people find you? Can they connect with you on LinkedIn.
[23:44] Sella: Or see, they're allowed.
[23:47] Katie: It's not creepy.
[23:48] Sella: They're allowed to connect with for sure. Great.
[23:52] Katie: I'll put your link in the show notes and any other things that you'd like me to add, I'll gladly put that too. Thank you so much for sharing your tips on creativity and the link also with meditation and mindfulness. It was so, so great to have you.
[24:07] Sella: Yeah, that was great fun. Thank you so much for inviting meeting me. You're welcome.
[24:11] Katie: Thank you.
[24:12] Sella: Bye. Okay.
[24:15] Katie: Thank you for listening to the Focus B show. We would love to hear your feedback. Let us know in a review how this episode inspired you. Keep buzzing.