Episode 92: Flat Earth Conversation with Charles

The following presentation isn't al Marvit Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It is time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files, and we're so glad you're joining us today, and I do hope this podcast finds you well in your travels through this geocentric earth. As always, I'm George glad to be here joining us. In just a moment is today's guest Charles. Before we bring him on, just a couple of quick reminders,

of course, please do stop by the website. It is the flat earth files dot com again. It's the flat earth files dot com. Check out our speak pipe message system, drop in the chat room and say hello, or leave your thoughts within our forum. There's a lot to do there, so do please check it out. That is the flat earth files dot Com. Questions, comments, concerns, or you would like to join us like Charles is today, please drop us a line at the flat earth Files at

gmail dot com. Again, that is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Without any further ado, we're going to bring on our very special guests for today, and his name is Charles. Charles, how are you doing today? Doing pretty good? George, thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, it's great to have you and much to talk about. Let's kick things off. Please do give an introduction so the audience can get to know you a little better for sure. So, so, my

name is Charles, born and raised in San Diego, California. So if you guys are from over there, do you guys know exactly what I'm going to talk about when it comes to the sunsets and the mountains all the cool stuff. I don't you want me to share, like my entire background as much as you like, take your time, go right ahead. Oh great? So yeah, So I'm from San Diego, born and raised there. I grew up in a in a Catholic household. We never really believed truly.

I would say that the Gospel was never present. It was just more of a I believe in God. Around sixth and sixth grade, I became an atheist because I started learning about evolution and science and I bought it. And just like what everybody has gone through, especially if they grew up in a K through twelve system, you become indoctrinated. So I became very indoctrinated. I can say I know how the system works in a way. I know what they teach you, they teach you to a test. And I

became an atheist at sixth grade. I remember talking with my friends who were Christians and and just I didn't really care about that. I put it in the back and I became a hard, hard atheist or I would have fights with any kind of religion. And it wasn't until I was I was seventeen years old. It was my senior high school and I started going to a

youth group. And they're at the youth group, I met a youth passor and he's the one who kind of I would always hackle him and I would always ask questions and he always had good answers from scripture, and that was very attractive, and I wanted to go after him. I wanted to defeat him and debate, but he always stood his ground and he pulled me to the to the Bible and he said, have you ever read the Well?

I said no, I never read the Bible. And why would I read a you know, fifty thousand thousand a year old by a book that's that has a whole bunch of discrepancies and all this stuff. Because I would just go on Google and just look up contradictions. So I read it. I read it from cover to cover in a couple in a month or two. And from that I came to the realization that I was a sinner and that was going and I was on my way to Hell, and I didn't want

that. I wanted to be with God and I wanted to know the truth. And I don't know how to explain it, but I was blind and then I could see, and one moment I did not believe in I believed, and I believed in the gospel, the whole gospel of Jesus Christ, and that he died on the cross, he resurrected on the third day, and you know, placed my trust in him and never since two thousand and nine, I've been a Christian. So that's that's kind of just my background.

And for the last decade, I've just been in school for yeah, for ten years, since two thousand ten, all the way to twenty twenty, at Associates in music. I got Bachelors of Music and then I decided to go to seminary because I wanted to learn Greek and Hebrew, go back to the church, and I wanted to teach I wanted to be a pretty much kind of be a preacher. I never saw myself as a pastor pastor,

but I kind of just ended up in that spot. But I mostly wanted to just learn the scriptures and be able to explain it to people because I knew what it was like. I knew what it was like to tackle people and hate people, and to just have this remorse for something that I didn't even believe in, which is really crazy. So I went to seminary. I learned a lot about the Bible. I learned how to interpret large portions of Old Testament passages books, so translated Book of Ruth, the Greek

and the Greek Bible. I translated the First Book of John or was it First John, A lot of passages from the Gospels, a lot of places from Romans, so it's I learned how to handle the Bible pretty well, I guess. And then after that I went I went to school again, got a masters in music, and then uh, after that, COVID hit the twenty twenty and I lost all my jobs. I lost all of all of my gigs, I lost all the I mean, you know, weddings because there was no more weddings. Ye all, I lost a lot of

my students. I couldn't I couldn't teach them in person anymore. And then a lot of the studios didn't want to send their kids. So I was just poor. And around that same time, in two thousand, that was two thousand, h what is it eighteen, that's when I got married. So I was just struggling. My wife and I were struggling. We're both, you know, musicians, and were like, this sucks, especially in

San Diego. It's so expensive over there. Yeah, so I had to I had to get out, and I took a job that it's it's a counseling job pretty much, and and it moved me over to Georgia, and I've been living I was living in Georgia for the last two years and I got to do cool stuff there and and now I'm over here in South Carolina and I'm still waiting to go see the East coast water or the oceans you know, behind behind me. I haven't made it yet there yet. But

I became a flat earth in twenty twenty one. And what happened was I so I was in Japan and I was at some I was at the friend and we were able. I remember that side. It was pouring and raining and we were just talking about conspiracies and we're talking about jfk Epstein, We're talking about just you know, Pizza Gate nine to eleven and all this stuff. And he was like, hey, you're really cool. I wish I would have known you sooner. And I was like yeah. And then he

finally asked me a question. He said. I was like, Charles, I'm gonna ask you a big question. I was like, all right, go ahead. He said, what do you think about the Earth? And I thought, because he was a Christian, I thought he was talking about the age of the Earth. And I figured, I'm like oh, I just responded quickly. I'm like, well, I believe in a young Earth. I believe that the Earth is about maybe roughly six thousand to ten thousand

years old. It's not I don't believe it's billions and millions of years old, like the way you know science they think it is like four point five billion years or something like that. And so I was just like, yeah, it's young. He's like no, no, no, no, He's like, yeah, that's that's a given. But what do you think is the s of the Earth. And as soon as he said that, I laughed, and I knew he was going to bring up the flat Earth, and I told him. I was like, dude, I don't believe in

the flat earth. Man, I'm not going to go that far. I just that's that's nonsense. And it's crazy because when he brought that up, it brought up all the flashbacks to when I was in seminary and I remember I was on YouTube, and this is when I was like looking at a whole winch. It's just like alien videos. And I've always really been into conspiracies because one of my cousins, she gave me the book or should let me borrow the book Behold a Pale Horse. Oh, Bill Cooper. You

know his name, yeah, Bill Cooper. So that really opened my eyes and I saw how just the way this world is and the way the government is, and I just I was like, oh my gosh, this is keep predicting nine to eleven. And then the way they just you know, killed him. Right after that, I was I was so open to that, and I just I knew that there was there was more in the world that I didn't know. But I still believe in space and all that kind of stuff, and uh so he brought that up and I told him.

I was like, no, dude, I don't. I don't believe in the flat Earth. And I was like, what about NASA. You know, they they all the pictures and all their all the ships and all the years. And I remember I would tell him. I would tell him how when I was in middle school or elementary, telling us like, yeah, you know, NASA just shot out their their probe and it's it's making its

way all the way to Saturn and they're going to take pictures. And I waited like ten years and then finally, like I don't know, seven six years ago, they finally came out and I got to see Pluto and Saturn and it was beautiful images, and I realized, now that's just all fake, you know. So it was it's just like it's crazy. So he was like he he just kept pushing it. He was like, no, NASA's full of lies, and I'm like, dude, why would they lie? So then he goes he's like, you're a preacher, aren't you.

You know the Bible? Didn't you go to school for that? And I was like, yeah, I did. He and then this is this is how I came to the flat Earth. It was through the Bible. He asked me what does Psalm nineteen verse one say? And immediately I just I quoted it back to him. I was like, the heavens declared the glory of God and the Fermament show with his handywork. And he's like, yeah, Fermament. He looks at me with like big guys. He's like Fermament.

He's like, what do you think that is? And I was like, I don't know. He's like, we'll get your Bible app. So I went on. I went on the Bible app. Oh, by the way, you guys, you guys should get this Bible app. It's called Literal Word. If you have an iPhone or Android, it's free. And

I'm just I'm going there as I speak. So I went to Psalm nineteen verse one and there's a little a leaf symbol at the top and I clicked on expense and bam, the word came out as Rakia and it says extended surface solid expense from an end from my men flat as a base, support from involved of the heavens, supporting the waters above. And I kind of just stood still a bit because I've I've read the Bible countless of time. Sure, I've read it front and back. I've already lost count I've read

it in all versions. I read it in you know, NSP. King Jay's version the first time, ESV so many times. Right now I'm going through it and KJV, and I just love reading the Word of God. And it was for the first time where when I read the Hebrew, especially after studying and learning Hebrew and learning how the Jews and the Israelites back in the day, the way they wrote the Bible. They wrote what they saw,

they wrote what they believed. And I take a a literal, historical, hermit grammatical hermeneutic of the Bible. And what I mean by literal is it's it's the plain reading of the text. For example, if it says that God created it in six days, I believe it's six days. I'm not going to add billions of years or anything. I just take the word

as it is. That's what I mean. So so I remember reading that in the right there in the app and it says expense, and it defined it for me, and I heard I saw supporting waters above, and I was like what this is crazy. I was like, nah, no, this can't be and then he goes, yeah, what is And then he tells me, welles, what does Genesis Chapter one, verse six A, And I went there, you know, then God said, let there be an expense in the midst of the waters. I separated the waters, and

there again expense. And I did a whole word study on it, you know, and it comes out fifteen times in the Old Testament the word firmament or racchia the Hebrew. And it just blew my mind, and I wanted to know more about it. So I kept fighting him, and I kept telling him. I was like, yeah, well, you know what it's. You know, we have science now and they back in the day they didn't they didn't know and everything. Gosh, I can't believe I say.

I used to say that because I'm what I'm pretty much what I was pretty much doing is I was saying science knows it all. Therefore, this is what the Bible means, rather than this is what the Bible says, therefore

this is how we should interpret science or the world around us. And I just want to interject for one second, because what you just said right there really explains the quandary we've gotten ourselves in over the last even twenty to thirty years within our lifetime, because we have taken the word of man over the word of God, just trusting others blindly, even for people who may not be believers, trusting others blindly because they wear a white lab coat or have

a PhD at the end of their name. That is one reason why we're in a position we are in the world right now, is because we you know, the Bible tells us to trust in God, not man, and we're so quick, like you just said, well, you know, the scientist said so, so it must be true, right, Yeah, you're that's completely right. And it doesn't it doesn't mix well with the Bible because the Bible speak. For example, the Bible talks about six days and on a seventh day he arrested. And if you count it, I mean,

I'm listening to the podcast. You guys have talked about it, and those the listeners talking to you guys too. You guys will remember how you guys have talked about how if you count the days from Adam all the way up until now, it's it's about ten thousand years or less. Or give your take, but it's not millions now. So you have to come to the realization or to the how do you say you have to reconcile is science and evolution and all these billions of years and the Big Bang and all this stuff?

Is this correct? Or are you going to trust what the Word of God says? You'll have to make that distinction. You can't believe in both because they don't one of them is true and the other one is false. You got to make that differentiation. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to ask you a few questions because you started your introduction about how in the sixth grade you became an atheist direct as a direct result of the education system of America. Yeah, that is say they taught us. Go ahead, yeah,

yeah, that's the that's what they taught us. I remember, I was in sixth grade. My teacher was Miss Lewis, I still remember her name, and it was history, and we learned about the chromagnus. We learned about all these evolutionary creatures. And I remember I had the thought because I grew up, you know, with a Catholic household and my grandmother and we were always praying to God, praying to Jesus. I never knew who was

who, and then there was a baby Jesus. I didn't understand that when I was younger, and here I am in class and they say, no, we evolved from monkeys. And I figured, well, if this is what happened, and if we came from a very long, you know, a long timeline, then the Bible is not true. It's just it's just human made up fairy tales. Therefore, I just pushed it away. It was so simple. I just pushed it away and I just went full blown

science. And ever since then, for the next you know, ten however, many years until senior year high school, I just was flat out all into big Bang. I would read books about Richard like Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawkins. I would watch all those debates and try to try to, like, you know, find the good arguments to debate friends and Muslims and Jews and Buddhism, and I was like, oh, everything, they all believe in the same stuff. I just believe in one less God. You know,

That's how I thought. Stephen Hawking's one of the ten biggest hoakses is in the last hundred years. I did a podcast on him. Yeah, and I get emails. I get emails all the time from people, not all the time, but people say, and I'm talking about both podcasts here, it's like, man, you talk about education a lot. You are living proof that the education system, and you know, we're supposed to be one nation under God. These days, I question which god the people in

DC are actually praying to. But the education system. Yeah, without a doubt. It's very disturbing because again, we send our children off blindly to be educated for thirteen years and you're you know, you became an It's it's one thing we talk about indoctrination and like capping on like like stunting, uh,

what's critical thinking skills and things of that nature. They say that they want to create a you know, a bunch of worker bees, so on and so forth, but they have gone even further than that, to actually not even hide God, but to completely turn people into atheists. That is something that's why to me that that is like one of the three one of the top three subjects I talk about all the time on the Fact Under podcast. It is so important to me because I've seen it firsthand. I'm that

guy who went to college a little later in life. I probably wouldn't have seen it when I was younger, but as an older guy in college and thinking what in the world is going on here? It is alarming to see what's going on and what they teach. College is even worse. You No, you're right, college is even worse. I remember what I took an astronomy class. Actually I took two classes that three classes that were really weird.

One of them was abnormal psychology, which was really cool. But the guy I always kept saying, He's like, yeah, this is you know, schizophrenia. It's just a clinical thing. Everything is clinical. There's no such thing as demons or any possessions or anything like that. And I look at these videos of these schizophrenic people and I'm just like, these guys are

possessed. This is just spiritual attacks. This is what happened. There are human possessed people, and they clinically call them according to the DSM five or four at the time, you know that they're just schizophrenic. So it's weird. You should probably ask those people, like what were they doing in their life before that? Were they believers? They did they mess with things? Like what was their background? Now? They just say, oh, it's

a nonset. It starts around the twenty three years old and or like from twenty three to the thirty. I remember learning that. And then the other class I took was this It was like a human Oh what is it? A study of man class? Because I had to take those. You had to they make you take those science classes to be well round it in college. And there we learned about evolution and they put it all again. And I remember I would always ask questions in class and just be like, well,

man, how do does this work? And and everything has to do with time. They just had time. If they if they can't explain why these bones were found in this sedimentary lay and then the other bones are found above another sentimental layer. They just add time. They go, oh, you have to add a couple more millions. Well that's that's their answer. And then the other class I took was astronomy. And these guys they add

gravity to everything. So it's time and gravity. And I never understood, Like I remember when I was an astronomy they would talk about the phases of the moon and how the moon would perfectly spin on its axis that when we look at it, it looks like it's just one phase, but it's actually spinning. That's impossible. It's just it's it's preposterous. And he would always just say, like, yeah, the Bible teaches this, but it's not true. It's we know now because of telescopes and and this and this and

that, but it's it's all lies. And that's how that's how the school system is. They just teach you to the test. They teach you to regurgitate, just so that you can get answers. So I guess what I got. I got an A in the astronomy. It was it was it was easy. You just tell them what they want you to to to, you know, tell them the answers. And it isn't isn't an amazing They know exactly what each planet is made of. This one is gas, this

one is lots of carbon. This one, you know how they explained this one had water on it eight billion years ago like Mars used to have. And just who comes up with this stuff? Like literally, who who came? Who comes up with this stuff? I don't know. It's there's some if you have if you have a regular computer or what is it, like a not a not a Mac, but a windows. If you go on Microsoft Edge and if you just open it up, it always has news articles

and they always push space. They go, oh, there might be a big cloud in Jupiter the size of the United States. Oh they might have found gold, gold dust, come it raining and mars, like they come up with these random things every single day to just keep your mind up there and like wow, wow, look at what they're look at what they're doing, you know. But it's it's they're just making it up. And I think that the people that write write the journal articles don't even know themselves.

I think they just get it from someone else. It's it's it has to start off from the top, and it trickles down because even the teachers, the teachers in the in the you know, the K through twelve system, they they teach what was taught to them, and what was taught to them, they also was taught to them, and it just keeps going back and it's this It started off somewhere and we just veered off so far away to where if you try to bring up creationism and that there is a God and

that there is you know, actual structure and there's a system on this earth that we live on they throw it away. They go, no, that's that's not right. We trust the science. Is it period reviewed? Oh no, well now we can't. We don't believe you. We only we only trust what's period reviewed. Indeed, and I'm starting to think many of these air quote space journalists, I think they surf the net because you know

how in these days people post their senior thesis online. I think they probably just you know, they find some and you're at Texas A and M and look at their their thesis and run with it. Yeah, that's pretty true. It's insane. But you know what, you know, the question that comes up more towards the end, and I'll ask you at the end, but I wanted to mention it now for myself. It's people always ask how

can we change things? What can we do to break the matrix? I stand with a lot of conviction in my heart we have to change the education system wholesale. And I'm talking wholesale changes where au either homeschool or be go. Back when I grew up in the seventies, it was community based education. I walked to school. The teachers were like in the neighborhood, Hi, missus Straw, like she was my teacher. But she was also I

deliver newspapers tour in the morning, right, and everybody knew everybody. But we've destroyed all that and we've turned over education to the government. And if anybody can show me one thing in the last one hundred years, something positive that this government has done well, then I'll yeah, you know, there's probably a unicorn and a leprochron behind it, because it's just not there.

Yeah, but I mean that's not what Rockefeller wanted, right, No, he wanted to create people just to be cheap and to just live day to day be away from the family. It's break it's literally just breaking the family unit. And I and I totally agree with you. To answer that question,

it would have to it would literally have to take entire us. And I would even say, though you know, the rest of the world across the pond, it people need to just go back to the family unit and teach teach what the family like, what you know biblically what the family unit is. And and I'm I'm super biased here because I'm a Christian and I I wholeheartedly believe that the Word of God is the truth, the truth, and nothing but the truth. So people need to break away from what this

government is trying to. Just steer them away. Get get out of the TV. Stop watching Netflix and wasting your your time on that, Go read real stuff. I like, what what's his name, uh, David Wise when you had him on the podcast, and how how he said, He's like, listen to Crow Triple seven and just go to go to Crow seven seven University or whatever, and you're gonna learn way more there. And it's true. It's what they teach you in the schools is just utter trash.

And you've got people that graduate with all these degrees and now they're in debt for the rest of their lives. So you go to you go to school, and then you pay all this money to get this worthless degree that you know that's not even true, and then you can't even get a job, and now you're paying it off for the rest of your life. It's just the system is rigged. It's it's done. Yeah. And these are the same people that are at the top of the food chain in journalism as well.

And I woke up this morning and I go on to social media and the big story everywhere Carlos Santana declares a woman is a woman, and a man is a man and he is anti trans and it's it's as big as as like nine to eleven. The stories were everywhere, and I'm like pinching myself, thinking, have we really fallen off that quickly over the last ten years? Everything is just sideways. It's it's incredible. I'm surprised this song, what is it? I got a black magic woman? Yeah, you

know, that's why I'm surprised. That's not you know, taken off the taken off air or anything like that. But that's that's just ridiculous. And then with the whole Trump thing, I'm pretty sure you just heard and you just got arrested. Yeah, yeah, it's so sad. It's just everybody, everybody's against everybody over here. But uh but yeah, so so go I mean just to go back on like my wake up, the wake up

story. It's so I remember, So I was there in Japan and and he pointed me to the Bible and it was immediate, George like, I don't know how to explain it. As soon as I saw the Hebrew and because I and this is only because I try, I think it's because I trusted the Bible so much that I said, I have to put God's word first. And because I believed in his word first, I immediately put it. I put it above all science. I put it a ball of all

man human wisdom. And the thing that made me really it freaked me out. After, you know, going back and forth, my friend is he He kept telling me. He kept saying like, no, you gotta you gotta think about you know, the Antarctic Treaty and Operation fish Bowl and all those all those things that happened. And by the way, if you guys who are listening, if you guys haven't looked that up, it's some pretty crazy stuff. But he brought up Genesis chapter thirteen and he said, what

did the serpents say? What did what did the woman say to God? After they ate the apple? And I was like, oh, it's that the serpent deceived. He's like, well, what does that say in the Hebrew? And I wouldn't look, and they're in the app it shows n A s A nassa. So after reading that, I was just like, oh, my gosh, could could they really be deceiving us? Could NASA

really be deceiving us? And that that's kind of what really jumped me into the wormhole and I or what is it called the rabbit Yeah, the rabbit hole. And I told him, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to think about this. So I want to tell you this, and I want to tell everybody else this, just so that we don't how do you say, misrepresent what the actual Bible is

saying. So I did a word study here on on the Hebrew. So yes, the word and there in the Bible it says the serpent deceived me. And I ate. Right, if you look it up anywhere on Google or and you try to look up the Hebrew word for deceived, it's going to show up as n a s a. But the Hebrew word there it's it's actually it's the n, then it's a, it's an sh letter or

word, and then it's an a. So it's actually pronounced nasha. But when you read the actual Hebrew, so like here I have my my my Hebrew Bible, and when you open it up and you read what's actually written in the Hebrew, it's actually pronounced hish shianni. That's that's the word his hiani. So it's not nasa it doesn't say Nasa or Nasa in the Hebrew at all. It's just very interesting that the English translation translates it too nasa,

which can be a big coin in the coincidence start. So yeah, so it's just I just want you guys to know that you know, the word Nasa is not you know, verbatim in the Hebrew, so that people just know that it's hish shianni. So that's that's why I freaked me out. And then I remember I was after leaving Japan. I I got on the plane and I flew back to I flew to Hawaii, and then I flew to Washington, and then I flew all the way back to Georgia.

And I remember, for the first time in my life, George my like, it's almost like the veil came off my eyes and I saw the world differently. I saw that the horizon was level. It wasn't in my mind trying to tell myself like, oh, look the Earth is curving. You know there's a curve over there. No, it was level, just complete level. And it freaked me out. And I remember I told before I

got on the plane, I told my wife. I said, hey, you're probably gonna think of crazy, but I'm starting to doubt that the Earth is a ball. And she's like really why? And then I walked her through everything that my friend told her. I was like, you gotta you gotta research, you know, operation fish Bowl and the Antarctic Treaty. You gotta look up how you can't go to you know, to the North Pole and the South Pole, and there's all this land and there's extra that they're

trying to hide from us. This is all just a big coincidence, right or or what do you think? And she was like, yeah, yeah, I think it is. When I got back the people, that really what really helped me finally, So at that moment, I was completely awake. It was just night and day. I believed that the Earth was flat, and I wanted to know more. So I started reading the Bible a

lot more. And I found a whole bunch of verses and you know, if I'm not going to go through a whole bunch of them, but it's in your podcast, people, can you know, you guys can go back and listen to them. But it I started recognizing and realizing that the Bible makes a lot more sense if you take if if you read it from a

flat Earth perspective. And I the first thing I did, because I used a lot of I used Instagram a logist because I like to, you know, post stuff and and the I immediately typed in flat earth into the search engine, and the first thing that came up was this this page called flat Earth flat Earth spelled flat Earth g U A t E. And I think

it's honestly, I think it's the best. Out of all the Instagram pasages that I've been on, it is by far the best one because she has she posts a lot of like the stuff that other people post on because a whole hundred people do that. But she has this little scroller at the top where you can you can see like Nasallis and Tarctica, moon facts on science, Bible, gravity, sataloons, maps from them and stars. It's got everything and you can just go through it and you know for days you'll be

entertained for forever. And I just binged flat Earth. I went through everything. I listened when I got back. I remember I started listening to David Weisse and I and I went on podcast because I used to listen to a lot of I still do. I listened to like theology podcasts, and I'm like, listen to that kind of stuff, but I just typed them flatter

and I want to see if people were talking about this. And first thing I came up was Down in the rabbit Hole or the Flat Earth podcast, which was really cool and it was with David Wise, and that was awesome. So I listened to a lot of that, and then it just got a little like banterish and then they just stopped, and it was they stopped

because of the whole COVID thing, which is really crazy too. And I remember they were talking about how there was going to be the flat Earth what is it, the whole convention, and then COVID hit, so I started. I just started thinking, what if this whole COVID thing just happened so that the flat Earth theirs couldn't get together? So that's what I thought. But then I remember, I remember in two fifteen, and I remember because I was in seminary in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and I when I

was on YouTube. This is before the whole algorithm change, right, because they mentioned that in the movie Level, And I remember when I was looking at you know, conspiracy theories, other things like that, not flat Earth. Every time I saw the flat Earth, I just skipped it. I was like, this is stupid. I'm not gonna I don't believe in that crap like this is dumb. I don't believe in it. But I remember I went back and I went on YouTube type and flat Earth and there's nothing

on flat Earth. And you do this on your podcast all the time. You tell everybody, Hey, just go on Google, go on YouTube type and flat earth and the first thing you're gonna find is how to how to make flat earth people look dumb. And you're gonna get you know, the professor, Dave Guy, and you're gonna get you know, Neil de grass Tyson and all these people, and you're not going to find the real stuff.

So I had a dig. And the way I found a lot of my the way I learned a lot was through Instagram because a lot now what they're doing is they're they're they're fact checking all the stuff on Instagram, and then a lot of the pages get destroyed. So that's why I'm telling you guys, listen to flatterth Go go look up flat Earth. It's awesome. She posts some really good stuff. I listened to Eric Debay's Complete Flat Earth Conspiracy book. That is a phenomenal work of art. I've watched all of

two hundred proofs. I listened to all of the earth Plane. I remember I started off with od DTV the twenty proofs, and then I remember watching a lot of the Dave Weisse videos and then Level came out. And when I watched Level, I had already binged so much of Flatter that everything was just a confirmation of what I believed. I was like, yes, that's exactly what I believe. And the next Level and then Level with me in great, great documentaries. I just finally watched at Warna the Last History of

flatterth and that's crazy. That is quite an experience, six five or six hours, right, Yes, it's it's huge, it's it's phenomenal. I have a lot of questions about it because there's some stuff that, for example, like I disagree with and this is something that I've noticed with the flatter community, and I like what you say, George, is that you go, look, we may all have disagreements, and we all may disagree, and you're never gonna tell people like, hey, don't listen to this guy

don't listen to that, because there's a lot of good stuff. Eric Eric debate the guys does he denies Christ? And to me, that just hurts. I'm like, dude, you are so close to scripture and you interpret it so well in the Old Testament, and yet you just don't believe Jesus

is the Son of God. It's just sad to me. And like all these other flat earth people, they all have these different views, but the one thing we can agree on is that we've been deceived and that the Earth is not a ball, you know, And that's that's the only thing that makes me happy. Really. It's so I kind of just have to sift sift around. I know, I know what I what I believe is to be truth, and and what I considered to be truth, you know.

And like again, I say, I always go back to Scripture. I always go back to the Bible, and I say, well, what does the Bible say about this? So yeah, that's pretty much. That's that's what happened. And then the way I came on on your the way I found your episode, I mean, your your podcast is it was it was

in May. It was this year May. I went back because I thought, my, hey, you know what I want to go see if the Flat Earth podcast with David Wise, if they made any new episodes, and no, there was nothing there, but or your flat Earth podcast came up and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. I clicked on that, and oh my gosh, George, I was hooked. After the first episode, I was like, this is awesome. So I I binged all of your stuff at like one point seven five all the way up until

now, and it's and it's really funny listening to speak all slow. I should have set myself from one point seven five before we started the interview to make you feel comfortable. I know, right. You did start with episode

one. I did. I started with episode one. I went through the first ten episodes, and then you started bringing in callers and I wanted to come on right away, but I wanted to listen to everything and catch up so that I just you know, I've heard everybody's story, and it's it's so wonderful to hear how everybody can just come on your show and then just talk about this and feel free without having to think you're going to be crazy. It's so funny that you mentioned just what you did a minute or two

ago about how everybody's perception is but we all know is different. But we all know we're deceived. You know, I'll do an episode any any the next morning after any episode, the emails full, and they'll be emails saying it was the great episode they ever heard. It moved them, They reached out to the guy who was on, and then I'll get one that's like

that was the word. That's just so funny. How you know that I know it's working because we're we're everybody's taking a little something from each Like there's episodes that mean a lot to some people, and there's some people's like you should have said this, And you know, at the end of the day, I bring everybody on and I make that clear in my responses to people, and I want them to tell their journey to the truth. And I'm not going to sit here and try to convince hundreds of people at a time

to think, like me, that's not just how this works. And you know, but one thing I do know that I can say is I do know that flat Earth. That's why I continue to do this. I've gotten so many emails that said, you know, understanding and flat Earth has brought them back to God or to God for the first time. So yes, even for like Eric Dubey, I'm sure you know you said, he's so close. Maybe one day it'll click with him, you never know, I hope. So I just prayed to God that he will open his you know,

he'll regenerate his heart and give him the faith to believe. But I can only prefer him. But you know, I pray the same way for Oh, of course. But yeah, I like that you mentioned how everybody everybody has this like thing that opens their eyes. Do you know what I

mean by that. It's kind of like maybe somebody has to watch the movie Level and then they're just oh wow, I believe it in now, Or somebody has to just watch like a fake document, a fake all those videos of NASA just you know, on strings and stuff, and then that will

open up their eyes. One of the things, when I think about it, one of the things that, like, you know, besides the Bible is the first one, you know, the word firmament, and the word heaven, and the word NASA, like the things that really launched me when I started looking up flat Earth stuff. I found I can't find the picture anymore. But it was a meme and it was a picture of these skydivers jumping out of a plane and one they were all like in a star formation.

It just looked really cool and the photographer takes a picture of them and what you see in the background is the flat horizon and the sun is under the flat horizon, and the meme the caption says, take all the time that you need. And that that was That was blown mind blowing for me because it really it destroyed everything that I ever believed. And that's the thing

with the with the flat earth. You have to come to this. You have to just forget everything you know and just put it aside and just kind of just start up fresh. It's like making a cake or making a uh, you know, making bread or anything like that. If you mess up or you already have all this, just say put it all the way, just cure some new ingredients and just start, you know, working on this and you have it takes time, And for me, it was that picture.

I remember seeing that I was like, oh my gosh, if the sun is under the horizon, then that means that the sun is local and the sun is not billions or millions of miles away, like like like science says and what everybody has has taught us, Because what is it that they say that the sun is uh, it's like ninety that's right, ninety three million miles away. The moon is two hundred and thirty eight thousand miles away. The speed of the Earth there's one thousand and forty miles. It's it's

like all this stuff that they taught us, it's just all lies. If you see the sun under the horizon and it's a tiny little orb of light, I don't know what it is to me. I just I think it's it's a it's like Plasmand the closer you get to it, you're not going to burn because the high or you go in mountains and elevation, it gets colder. And you would think that the snowcapped mountains would melt, but they don't because they're for some reason, they're closer to the sun. And I

don't know how to explain that. I'm I'm completely okay not having those scientific answers, but it's just you know when there's people they're like, well, the science says this, and this is how we know. It's like, no, it's it's just it doesn't it doesn't comply with what scripture says. And the Bible is very very direct. It says that he put the lights in the firmament, inside the firmament, so they're a local the sun, the moon, they're just floating right above us. That's what's happening, you

know. Speaking of science and everybody, I could let up emailers from people who may not be people of faith or religion that you know, they say, it's great to hear these stories, but they prefer to have scientific evidence, some which you just mentioned with the with the the sun below the horizon, et cetera. The other day, I was between interviews and I went

on YouTube and I said how to make water stick to a ball? And the very first entry on YouTube was flat Earth Debunked, and it had a picture of a ball on like this pin and this guy like dips it in the water. He sticks it on this thing and it spins real fast, and then there's like this drop of water left on it. He's like see, and it's just like ridiculous. I was like, now do that was seven and a half miles worth of water. It will never work. It'll

never work, and it's something that kind of frustrates me. And again, hey, listen, I was on the other side too. I would delete email. I did. I deleted David Weisse's email. I went back and pulled it out. But it was just ridiculous to me, just like it was for you, and we all have to be at that point of our life to be willing to look at it. It's true. No, you're You're so right. I was. I was on the other side. I

oh, man, I wanted to be an astronaut, George. I remember, since I was four or five years old, my uncle's would would play astronaut with me and they would throw me up in the air and they would they would be like, oh, that's thrown out and all this kind of stuff, and I loved it. And they would always show me pictures of space and they would say like, yeah, the stars and the moon and this whole vast universe was so beautiful, and yet it made me feel so

small. But it was like, I want to go out there. I want to go, but guess what, I can't because I'm not an astronaut. And now I find out you can't even be an astronaut unless you know you sell your soldier in double and you go become a you know, a freemacon or whatever. But I mean that's a whole conversation. The thing is,

I love the movie Interstellar. That was my favorite movie ever forever, and now that I'm a Flyer author, it's all this stuff is just jump like all the Marvel movies, all the Superman movies, Like I used to love that stuff. You know, how they come from space and all these aliens, and now it's just that's never gonna happen. Guys, space, time travel, all that stuff is not going to happen. All these dimensions are saying, and like how Michio Ku, you know the theoretical physicists,

I don't even know what that is. But and you know Neil deGrasse Tyson, and when they ever talk about you know, the first and the second, the third and the fourth and up to thirteen dimensions, that's never going to happen. There's no way that we're just going to It's it's all just this imaginary stuff that puts your mind out there to just be like whoa wow, and it really just points you away from God and that that's everything that

is non flat earth. Everything that's out there, the school systems, the science, NASA, the movies, it all just deviates you away from the Word of God. And that's that's just such a shame. Indeed it is. And I will tell you I wouldn't courage everybody if you kind of want to look into the minds of the people who control the narrative down here. Manly p halls the secret teachings of all ages and if anybody wants a PDF copy, email me at the Flat Earth Files at gmail dot com. I

will send you a PDF copy. There's three things that Satan does down here. He deceives indoctrination for lack of a better words, but also mockery. Mockri is one of the big things that they do with all their rituals. And it's not I've done some pretty deep studies, not deep deep studies, but into numbers and meanings and symbols. I'm sure you've seen a lot of

symbology with the occult and the people who control things. There's a reason why they chose ninety three for ninety three million miles, because it's the sun Sun, which is a mocker of the sun swen. And most people say you can look it up for yourselves. If you just put in what day did Jesus die? Most people say it was Friday, April third, eighty thirty three. That's you know, there's your thirty three. And the Book of Mark, I think, says he was crucified at nine and died at three.

So there's your other ninety three. April third is the ninety third April. Yeah, April third is the ninety third day of the year. If you look at the movie poster for flight ninety three, it is a plane going straight down that looks like an upside down cross. There's so much mockery with the number ninety three and everything within heliocentrism is meant to deceive, and a lot of the numbers. Even I did a podcast just on the numbers

involved on nine to eleven, and it's just insane. It really is insane. Yeah, I remember, I remember one of your earlier podcasts on the Flat Earth Files. It was one of the ten, and you talked a lot about the numbers. That was mine. It was an eye opening because I never I never noticed those things. I just had to gentlemen on the other night. By the time this podcast airs, it would have already been

out. I think it was Ryan, and he listed thirty three numbers within heliocentrism that really are related to Satan with the six six, you know, the sixes and everything. And he wasn't even aware of the number thirty three and what it meant to freemasonry. You had no idea. It was just accidentally was number thirty three. So it's kind of interesting how these things work out. That's pretty funny. Yeah, what else did I have written down? I wanted to ask you. I had a couple of questions. So

flat Earth in twenty twenty one. I know you've talked about the people who and your kind of journey, but was there one I knew the horizon was big, but was there a video or something you saw that really got you hooked into I think this is flat Was there you know, a big silver bullet for you? Oh? Yes, so there was what I would say maybe the silver bullets for sure. Was was watching videos of the clouds being behind the sun and it's people with nikon the you know the Pennine hundreds.

They just zoom into the sun and you see, you see it clear, clear as day. I was gonna say, clear as mind, you see it clear as day. The sun is right there. Local. You have those rays coming down like a triangle, and the close are right behind the sun, and it just shows you that it's local. Just that that just there is. It breaks all of halocentrisism because they say that the sun is so far away and that we're spinning around the sun, you know, hundreds

of thousands of miles. It's it's not. We're just stationary the way God made it. It said the Bible says he establishes the Earth and it shall not move. The only time it does is when he brings earthquakes. But it doesn't mean like move that. You know, we're flying millions of miles through the space and we haven't hit anything. So that was one of the

big silver bullets. But my main, like the over over my journey, the I guess the points where I would say that are that from what I've watched them from the last two years of just learning so much about the flat Earth. These will be my proofs. Number one, waters level, you know, just take a glass of cup, look at it. Water lays flat. Look at a pool, it lays flat when it's not moving. Look at a lake lays flat. Go on to some bigger look at the

ocean. It lays flat. So using science and their logic, the earth is seventy percent water. Therefore the Earth is seventy percent flat. Bam, flat Earth. So here's another one you can see way too far. And for those of you guys who are listening, if you're from San Diego, you guys know what I'm talking about. There's mountains that you can go. They're not mountains, they're like really big hills because I guess, you know,

Colorado people will get mad because they have real mountains. But there's there's these mountains. They're called Mount Hello, Mount Solidad, and there's Big Bear, which is in LA. And there's a there's another one, Cowel's Mountain. But I remember, since I was young, I would go up there, climb them up and just look at the view. And I never I never took pictures. And I just feel so like I want to go back just so that I can, you know, take pictures and see it with

brand new eyes. But for example, if you go up to Mount Helix, you can you can look south or kind of like southwest towards north North or south Coronado Island and it's about thirty miles away. And if you take the curvature formula, you know how they you know what that is, yea, it should be it should be under you know, about like six hundred feet under below the curve, but it's not. You can just see it

clear as day, on a clear day, it's right there. Another one is you can see from Helix and you can look these pictures on Google. Just type in view of Point Loma or Cabrio Mountain from Helix. It'll show up, and that's about sixteen mile away and you can see it right there, like it's very close, and it should be about you know, one hundred seventy feet under under, but you can see the very bottom all the way to the top. Here's another one. From Helix. You can Mountain

Helix. You can see San Clementa Island, which is really far. It's a little bit more north, close to La that's eighty six miles away, and on a clear day, like I said, you can see it. You can just see way too far. If you're on Mount Solidad, which is closer to the ocean, you can see San Clemento even better and still

sixty six miles away. Sometimes you can. The one that was really crazy is when I was in La or Ontario, in that area Riverside, you go to Big Bear Mountain and if you look south down to San Diego at night, you can see downtown San Diego. You can see the city lights. Because between San Diego and Ontario there's nothing. It's just all it's all road. But you can see so far away that should be that's one hundred and five miles away. You should it should be seven thousand, three hundred

fifty feet alow the curve, but it's not there. And you know what, here's another funny thing. I have friends that you know, I've told people about the flat Earth and they just they think I'm crazy or they think I'm just wrong. But I had people send me pictures where they show, you know, the boat's going over the horizon and they say, oh,

look at that. See it's it's disappearing rover the horizon. Or when they show you the what are they called those wind meals that are that are behind the curve and they look like they're behind the curve, and I go, that's really interesting. That actually proves flat Earth because they are pointing directly perpendicular

they're pointing up. They're not pointing away from us. And if you grab a basketball and you just grab a little hot wheel or a little person, walk them towards the edge, that person is going to be facing away from you, not straight up. So when you look at those boats that go over the horizon, I don't know what causes them to look like they're behind, if it's waves or if it's something, but the boat should be facing away from you, so you can just see way too far. You know,

those those are smoking guys. Another one is planes fly parallel. They just fly parallel to the ground. They never dip their nose down or up, they just go straight. The North Star never moves just I mean, I remember when I moved to Georgia, I really wanted to see the guide stones and then they blew them up. Got so mad. And that one just shows you that, you know, the polar stars right there, it never moves. And if we're flying through space that you know millions thousands of

miles, never hitting any asteroids, never hitting any other star. But yet the stars that are in our visible sky never have any parallax. They never moved. There's just there, and that's weird. Right. The other one is the heliocentric model. It doesn't allow you to see Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, and Mars at the same time at night. And I remember there this was on the news one day. They were like, yeah, I feel look out tonight. You can see Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, and

Mars all in this night sky. How is that possible if in order for you to see Mercury and Venus you have to look towards the Sun. So that just doesn't make sense. So the solar system just breaks down. Another one is, Oh, I love this one. What's his? What's the guy? I forgot the guy's name, but David Wise makes him. Uh. He posts a lot of videos about him and he has like this big freak out moment come into Yes, that was another guy that I also watched

a lot I saw. I saw the one where he This is his quote. I love it. He says, the Earth makes an ellipse around the Sun to take account of seasons. Therefore it must change in speed, and we do not feel it. It would liquefy all flesh. It's funny, but it's true because if we're moving thousands of miles an hour, if you step on the brake just one just one mile, you will drop your food, you will drop your coffee, you'll spill it all over. And yet

we don't feel anything. So there you go. You know, do you feel anything? So it's just it's ridiculous how all this stuff is. If you just think about it, if you think about it and you question what you've been taught, it'll, you know, hopefully it'll open up. Another one that's that's already said it that you know objects that are far away they point away. They don't point away from you, they point straight up.

And I like the newest one that I heard that was pretty cool was from David Weiss in your last episode when he said that when you're flying south, you should be able to see the stars come up from the horizon. That should be going up. I never thought about that, thought that was awesome. I was like, this is cool. It's the same thing with shooting stars. They should be shooting from the top, I mean, from the bottom up, but you never see that. They always come from the sky

going down. So those are those? Are my silver bullets or smoking guns? I guess. So I have a few questions for you to ponder. Why is the burden on us to prove flat earth versus the ridiculousness you would think. And again I was there too, and I get it. But you know, anytime I post something, whether it's on Instagram or wherever, or excuse me, wherever, people reply with the silliest things that's not well

thought out. And I guess it just goes to show, really going back to the education system, how strong the propaganda really is, because obviously we were part of it as well. And I guess it's a twofold question when you woke up, I know I did. Did you in any way feel silly or kind of shake your head at the things that we believed about heliocentrism. No, I completely bought it. I just believed it whole hardly. I was like, yeah, the sun is Ellen's miles away and this is

how it is, and they made movies to reinforce that. So because we have believed this for so long, however, within the last couple of hundred years, maybe anybody that goes against the narrative is just dumb, like we just consider them dumb, like, oh you are just if you believe that they're at this flat that's so outdated, like when you go on Wikipedia and

it says this is archaic knowledge. This is what people used to believe, you know, And it's funny if you go on chatchypt and if you play around with that, if you start poking at it too much about flat earth, it will it will stop you. It will just it will either not answer your questions or say, uh, you know, it's not true the flat earth. It's not true. It's an archaic thing. And it just

goes back to that. So I know that whoever is in power the like you guys say, the powers that be, somebody is in control of this, and it puts the burden back on us because we are the minority in this. And they go, well, everybody believes that the Earth is a ball, and you believe it's flat. And they make fun of us with these little pictures and they say, well, you're gonna fall off the edge and you're not, you know, like, where's the where's the edge?

Where's the edge? And they just characterize us, They drama on us, They find anything to just make us look dumb. But every single person that makes fun of us and I did this too. I did the same thing too. We never take the time to look at it. We don't. They don't take the time to think about these things because you know what would happened. It would break their world the way it broke my world. It changed everything about like everything you think, you know, everything you believe about

the world, you know is gone. And when you tell someone that, and if they come to that realization, they will freak out and they will have no idea what to do. Yeah, that's a great point. Now, when you did finally wake up to Flatterarth, how did that change your way of life and how you saw things? Oh, my gosh, I got closer to God. I believed in the Bible even more, like I already believed it was true, but now it was, I remember, I like I repent it. I was like, man, I can't believe I

believed in all this nonsense about your word God. But now it's know that he's right up there above the firmament. And it's above He's not you know, in this other dimension or when we think of space. It's not like another planet or in another universe or whatever. No, he's right above the crystal glass wall, the crystal glass ceiling. Like the book Revelation on my

Instagram, I put one picture. I made a new Instagram just for this, but I put a picture explaining how you know, in the Bible, when the Book of Ezekiel, it shows the angels, they were floating and it says they looked up and there was like it says, like a crystal glass above them. And then you read the book Revelation in chapter five and it shows the throne room and right below him is a crystal glass. So it's I know that God's throne is right above and he's holding the waters back.

And it just makes me feel more connected to God. I know now that he is there, and it's really funny. This is something just that

I do. I carry compass now because it reminds me of God, and I can whenever the compass wherever I am, it points north, and I think, you know what, it's probably where God is, you know, because he's it's the center of the center of the earth, and he's right above us the way the Bible says that he, you know, he draws a circle upon the earth, not a sphere, it's a circle, and that we're like grasshoppers to him, and he just sees us we are his

footstool. The Earth is its footstool. So it's like and a stool has four legs, and it talks about the Earth being on a stool. I don't know what that looks like. I just know and I trust God even more, and I just my life is I'm never bored, Like David Why says, like I'm never bored. I'm always constantly looking for something new. I look at the trees. I started getting into electroc culture, and I'm trying to understand, like you know, the electricity that's up there, and

trying to understand what happens with electricity. And it's just been fascinating things that we don't we wouldn't think of. If you just go day to day, go to your work, go to nine to five, come back, watch your TV, watch your football, waste your time and all this stuff, and then go to sleep, and then you don't actually go back to God. I've just gotten way closer to God than I was in the last two years ago. Yeah, that's a common response I get for many many people

on this podcast, and it's it is tremendous. And it also, like you said earlier, it really does change the way you read the Bible. It does. It really does. So so here's an interesting question I want to offer you. If you had unlimited resources, for one, you can do whatever you want, but you can only choose one way to prove flat

Earth. What would you do? I would? I would if I had limited resources and nobody was stopping me, right, I would get on a balloon and take it to Antarctica and just float as far as I could, and I would just keep going and going and going and going and going and going until either I don't know, I hit the glass wall. I don't know. That's probably where Enoch ended up and God took him for he was

not It says he was not, and then he just disappeared. I like to imagine that if we go too far beyond Antarctica, we're going to hit something and we're not allowed to go over there. And I think the answer is Antarctica, Like that is the number one thing. It's if we could go to Antarctica, you know, it would change everything, or the North Pole, because nobody's actually been in the North Pole, so we don't even know what's in the middle. If you look at the Google, it's all

blotted out and you're not allowed to fly over. You know, it doesn't even make sense on the on the flight past when you're on a real plane. But it would have to be Antarctica if I had all the money in the world. Yeah, I agree, and most people that's that's the answer

as well. But it's funny because something we don't talk about, and I've been meaning to do a brief podcast on it, is Rupus Nigra, which is the black rock, which is interesting because owns everything in the world black rock, and this is the you know, located at the magnetic North Pole that that is the giant bag that that points to all the compasses and any helicopter. I don't know if even helicopters can fly with with that cold, but the airplanes they have, I think they have to turn off there.

They're certainly their compasses. I just heard that the other day. I've been looking more into this and doing getting educated because here in the flat earth community we talk about Antarctica all the time, but we really don't. I don't think we talk about the air quotes here North Pole, Uh, the Arctic, I should say, enough, And that is very interesting, this black rock, this big magnetic North Pole, and obviously the meaning behind it and

very interesting stuff. No, it's it's true. I so you've seen you've seen the flat earth though, what is it? Blast history of flat Earth? Now? Right? Yeah, okay, so this is one of the questions I want to ask you. You just brought up the magnetic north. So I have some buddies, I have some friends that that like to get maps and you get to play with the compasses and you know, you go

do some land navigation out there, yep. And you know how when when you're walking out there, if you're looking at the map, there's like the magnetic north declination, and the map will usually tell you, oh, you got to add or subtract six degrees to wherever you're going, right, So if you look at I remember when when I was in Japan, it was different. It was like seven or eight degrees. And when we were out

there, that was just the first time I noticed it. And then the second time when I went back to Georgia, we were you know, we're doing that again, and it was different. The degrees were different. I always wonder, what the heck, why is it different if we're if we're all pointing north. And then it also says true North is where the Polaris star is. So there's two norths. There's the if you could follow the north star, that's where you're gonna go true north, and then you have

the magnetic North. And it's really interesting if you look up looking up on Google and what's his name, the the what is it last History or Warren On talks about this. It says that the North, the magnetic North, has been moving. And this is one of the things that I've been kind of I want to know more about. But how he thinks that, you know, the dome in a way that the circle that we're in, that's

the Antarctic circle whatever that is, the North Pole is moving around. You know the larger moon map, and those of you guys who are listening, you guys got to look up the moon map, look up all this stuff. It's pretty interesting stuff. But when I look at the North, if the North pole is it the magnetic North is moving and if you look at the Google how much it's moved for the last fifty years. This is crazy because then that means that this is this is what I was thinking about.

You know how the whole media and they're they're pushing you know, climate change, climate change. I remember back in in two thousand like five, and al Gore was coming out with the Inconvenient Truth and like, oh, we're going to lose the Holer bearers and and all the Antarctic. You know, Antarctic is gonna melt. Well guess what, Yes, it is melting because wherever the magnetic North is moving towards the Sun and the Moon that are following

it around in a circle. I don't know how to explain that, but it's it's just going around in a circle. Sure, it's going to melt. It's going to melt the Antarctic wall in the direction it's going to, But all the walls behind us where it's where it's not melting, it's getting

freeze over. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I so I just thought, what if, for example, what if the North Pole or I keep saying North Pole, but what if the magnetic North or the North Star is actually further more in the dead center of the moon map, and the magnetic North in which our compasses point to are just moving the other way, you know. So I just I don't know, I don't know what I don't What are your thoughts on that that that's interesting. I need to sit down

and do more studying on that. I've I have notes on it. I've been studying the magnetic I really need to sit down and do this because it's something that I've wanted to be been doing a while. I've been so wrapped up in this nine to eleven podcast I have coming up in two weeks. I haven't had a lot of time, but it's something I need to sit down and investigate and read because it is really intriguing and it does. Yeah, we do spend a lot of time on Antartica and not enough on the

North Pole. And yeah, they they taught us in the army the three north poles, True North, Magnetic North, and grid North. And when I was in was I was in Schofield Barracks, so Waii. I had to do a land navigation course. To all the folks have been in the

military, who's listening, You know this? In order to get your E five, sergeant, you have to go to Peeled well, I don't know what it's called now, it's called Peel DC and you had to five five points on a map and you'd had to use your compass and and everything else. And I'm glad you said that. I have. My wife got me a really nice and grave compass a while ago. It sits on my desk, but I need to start carrying that too. That's a that's a great

idea. But just a funny story off the off the cuff is they had a jump scheduled for that day. We were doing land navigation. So we're out there trying to find our points and we look over ahead to see one thirty flies over and all these guys are jumping out with their parachutes and all you hear these guys sitting the ground. Uh uh And we're all running trying not to get from these guys, and uh, you know, the guys in charge of PLDC are just flipping out because you know this big test day.

If you fail, you I think we had to get three out of four or four out of five. Look, I forget what it was. This was Geez nineteen ninety eight, but but it was very interesting because guys you have to pace, count and everything else, and guys hitting the ground trying to dodge, and they did a palette drop too. They had a hum vy. I don't know if folks listening at home, if you've been in the military when they drop a humby out of the back of a sea

one thirty with the two parachutes. This thing, it's the ground and there's totally people on the ground doing their land navigation tests. It was the most I've never seen so much anger from people yelling at each other saying whose fault it was. But anyway, that's completely off topic. But uh, we started talking about the different norths and it kind of and you talked about the comp has just jarred that story up good times back from Scofield Barracks. So

why that's funny. Yeah, I just I just thought about the North Pole and because that's that's one of the things that I've noticed also within the flat earth community. It's there's there's the flat Earthers that believe that it's you know, we're just under a dome and it's you just go to Antarctica and within a couple of miles you'll probably hit the dome and that's it. I like to take that view. I'm happy with that view. I believe it fits

really well with the Bible cosmology. But the other view, the Warren I would call it the Warren and view. Maybe it's a lot bigger, and it follows the moon map, and it just goes on forever. Like David Wise and all these other people, they think that it's just an infinite plane. It just goes forever, and there's all these other worlds. I don't believe that. I don't. I don't think that there's other lands or other suns, because the Bible is clear. It says you just created the two

lights. And I think if that was part of it, he would put it in the Bible, but he didn't, so I'm just sticking. I just stick close to what the Bible says. Yeah, you know, it's it's it. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say I was. It was very intriguing to me the first time I heard it. Right now he started talking about how extraterrestrials, extra terrain and and everything else. But that's exactly what I did. I went back to the Bible.

I was like, well, wait a second, if there's only one sun and one moon, how could people sustain life on the other side of Antarctica. And then the other thing was, you know, if you look at Genesis too, one the heavens and the Earth were finished right, it was finished. It was done. It's not this ever expansing land so exactly. And and and I do the whole alien stuff like I used to believe

in aliens, like those like things that come from the sky. By the way, if you watch there's this new movie called Jewels, it's like this little alien creature. I think that what they're the world's gonna end up doing is they're going to try to do this big alien scare and people are going to freak out. But I like what you mentioned about the extraterrestrials. If they are extraterrestrials, they're just from beyond the Earth. And I don't know

if they've figured out a way to survive in the cold. But there's no sun out there, but I'm sure you can probably still see the sun, you know, circling away from you. But it's really interesting when you get to you when you look at like Admirable Bird's journal and what it says and how he found a large a large body mass of land and had oil and it had all these resources and then they killed him and then bam, NASA

comes out and then it's like, oh, nobody's allowed to go. So I want to know what's in Antarctica, and I'm pretty sure everybody wants to know what's out there now. One thing I will say it would not surprise me obviously. One, they don't want to stand there because of the firmament, right, that would prove that we're not a globe. But I do believe there may be some resources down there, you know, very maybe powerful resources down there. Yeah. Did you have you seen those pictures? Those

screenshots? You can't find it on Twitter anymore, but that one and what's the name Neil Armstrong? That one guy who's the astronaut who's kind of like slipping now he's really he buzz Aldrin. Yes, he posted a picture of of the of the pyramids and in Antarctica and he said like there's evil, there's like bad things happening, evil itself and then he took it off. They took it off. So I find it really interesting that there was pyramids

and you know, other other things. And if there's like, oh man, Twitter is amazing because they there's so much uncensored stuff on there. You can type in anything you want, and you can you can ask like how to how to make a bullet, you know, and it shows you how to make a bullet. You can ask you know, anything about flat Earth and it'll show you hundreds of people. It's so it's such a plethora that it's exhausting. It's like I can't even follow along with what's going on.

And I've seen so much. But there's really cool videos that people make of of all these artifacts and things that they found in Antarctica. And I think it just lines up with when the Nazis the Germans were down there during World War Two and they you know, they settled down and they they did their things. It's just really cool stuff. Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned the

pyramids. There was an article I think just yeah, June July twenty nine, twenty twenty three, mystery pyramid beneath Antarctics ice sends conspiracy theorists wild. The huge pyramid mass was spotted over Ellsworth Mountain range and it has baffled logical explanation. Yeah, yeah, there's a picture of it. It's yeah, it's interesting, and I remember when buzz Aldron posted that and then I think, if I remember correctly, some people screen grabbed it, but I think

his handlers took it down pretty quick. Yeah, they did, And what was that you said, Jewel It's I'm not sure what it's the movie is called, but there's like a little blue alien and the name of the alien is called Jewels, and it's a it's a movie that's trying to make you feel emotional for the aliens and when they come to Earth, and yeah, so it's it's kind of it's just gonna make people feel, you know, like, oh, the aliens, you know, these these other life forms,

we got to take care of them so that when you know, a Project Blue Beam and they shine up all the fake stuff, all the fake alien invasion. That's probably that's why all this alien stuff out of nowhere just comes out and the government out of nowhere says, oh, yeah, we have aliens. But guess what if they would have said that fifteen years ago, everybody would gone crazy. But now that they say it, nobody cares. No, nobody cares because of Marvel, because of all these alien spaceship

stuff. They're like, oh whatever, yeah, we that's probably true. Nobody cares anymore. And they did it perfectly. They timed it out so perfectly so that when it happens, you're just so easily deceived. You're just gonna take it. You're just gonna eat it up and whatever. That's how you're lost. Yeah. There, I was writing in like Jules j it's j U l Ees. It is Ben Kingsley's in it. And I guess it's on Netflix. I have to get my daughter's password and watch it if

they'll still let me do that. Yeah. If it's on Netflix, I'm gonna watch it tonight. Then Yeah, that's interesting. He even has to care in this movie. He doesn't even look like him funny. So it's really funny what they did to advertise the movie, The Little Alien the Little Person. I don't know, it's really funny. Something like one of the conspiracies is that some people think that it's an act alien and they just think

it's like a person in a suit. But they walked them all around New York and they have videos of people filming this little alien walking around just and he's just looking at people and saying hi, and everybody's just like, oh, the cute little alien. But that's how it starts, you know. It's like that. It's that funny thing where it's like, if you find a cat, don't name the cat, because then you're emotionally attention. That's what we say about our meat chickens. Oh man, Yeah, that's true.

I used to My dad used to have chickens too, and we had we had like thirteen chickens, and then they all gave birth to chicks. And then I named one of the chickens Caral, and I have that. I had that one for about like two years, two or three years. Such a good chicken. That's awesome. Yeah, you know. I have to also do another story on there. There is Harris Radio Systems. They

have something called a line of sight radio system. It's it's a very high powered one and according to their manual, their line of site manual, it works up to sixty kilometers. That's crazy. I love you see. That's it's not funny how radio the radio frequencies can go that far. Same thing with sonar, the way they can just they can tell if a boat is of like two hundred miles away, if it's like covering far away. It's how would that work on a ball earth if the singles would be they would

have to bend right. It's like a it's like a lighthouse. You can see it so far away because the light doesn't bend, it just shoots out straight. So yeah, with radio frequencies and that's just another that's another coin in the box right there. It just proves that the Earth is flat, it is level, and it just keeps going forever. Yeah. I remember, I I man, I've talked to some I talked to a friend I lost. I lost a really good friend over over this whole flat earth stuff.

They practically just disowned me and my wife. But they I remember, and they found out I was a flat ether through my YouTube account. They came over to my house and they we were just talking about music and and I told him. I was like, yeah, I go on my account, and he just searched this up and he went on it and he just the first all my whole entire you know, when you opened up YouTube and it shows you everything you've been watching, and all this like flattered stuff was

on there. And he's liked, Charles, are you a flat Earth? And I'm like, oh no, you know, it's just my co worker. As they talk about this stuff, and I was trying to push you away because I don't talk about this with people. I just I don't want to. I don't know. I don't want to get into it, and I also don't feel adequate enough to debate or to get enough fight or anything

like that. And from that moment on, he just really wanted to know why I believed it, and I kept telling him no, no, no no. And then finally, long story shore, I ended up going to his house and he's like, all right, give me your spiel, and I went biblically. I walked them through through Genesis one and I used the Hebrew and I explained this, and I gave him all the other verses and

I have a list of verses that I'd like to share with you. But yeah, I did all of that, and he was just watching me and just kind of like like kind of smug, being like yeah, oh I know, I know, I know. And I was like, look, this is why I want to tell you, man, because you're not even given you're not even giving it a chance, and you're a Christian dude,

like you were completely disagreeing with the but what the Bible says. And then he came over to my house and then he did his thing, and he'd like tried he destroyed or tried to destroy all the arguments, and he actually watched the Bays. He watched Level the first one, and so I gave him. I give him that he took the time to watch him, because he brought up some things that were in the video and that you would only know if you watched the documentary. But after that, it was just they

just stopped talking to us and they couldn't handle it. And every time I went over to his Bible studies, every time they asked me or if I wanted to about you know, the passage, they would just roll there. They would roll his eyes and and I'm like, man, I can't believe this just destroyed a perfectly good relationship all because of a different view on scripture. So it's just really really sad. And I had you know, I've had other friends too, and you know, one of my best friends,

and I wanted to tell him so bad. I was like, hey, I gotta tell you something. He's like would and I was like, I think the earth is flat because of the Bible, and he's like, no, I checked every single commentary and nobody is talking anything closer remote to what

you were talking about, And like, I think you're just wrong. You need to like stop drinking the water over there in Georgia and this and that, and I was like, dude, come on, if you're one who thinks the same way I do, we take a literal, historical, grammatical approach, and you are letting mankind dictate what to believe about the Bible. I think you're wrong. And I have another friend who also just kind of I told him to And after those three people, I kind of just stay

quiet. I just I go, you know what, I'm going to keep it to myself, and yeah, I just it to me. It's I wish I was more open, but I don't know. Yeah, well, I'm sure that everybody listened to this podcast. At least most people have a

story very similar to that. I know I do. Most of us maybe have tried to share our beliefs and it, you know, we know how that really really just goes to show how much effort that they put into this propaganda and how much they know what a powerful tool it is to hide God. Yeah, we've got about seven or eight minutes left. So whatever you wanted to share, I know you did have some scriptures as well that you

wanted to share with us. Oh yeah, yeah, So just to share a couple of scriptures that that made so when I became a flat earth and thinking about the Bible, everything just made more sense taking a flat earth perspective. So those of you guys who are just listening, I just want you to just I want you to, like picture this stuff in your head, and I don't want to spoon feed you. You know the Bible, I'm just go grab a Bible, go open up your ap and just look these

passages up. For example, number one, Genesis chapter eleven talks about the Tower of Babel. If you think of that, if you imagine that the Tower of Babel is on a ball that's spinning thousands of miles an hour, imagine the people at the very top of it just holding for their dear life like that. That's just weird. But if you take it from a flatter's perspective, they're trying to get so close to Heaven because it's right up there and they wanted to get close to God. So the Book of Jasher talks

about that. It's really interesting. I found that really really interesting. So another one is Genesis chapter twenty eight versus ten. They're twenty two when it mentions Jacob's ladder. I mean, what were the angels descending from or if they're descending from Heaven on a spinning ball, that's really it just doesn't make

sense. But if the Earth is stationary there the Jacob's ladder, the angels are descending from the ferminent above Heaven above, going down to Earth and walking back up on it, just plainly as what the Bible describes it as. Another one is Revelation chapter six, Versus thirteen to fourteen, when it starts about stars falling from the sky to the Earth. I want you to just imagine a star like serious or you know, all the polities. Imagine those

fall on the Earth. We would be burned up before they even you know, made it to Earth. But no, these stars are just little luminaries up in the sky. I don't know what they are. Maybe they're like fragments or sound waves, like there's a lot of cool videos about how they're just shimmering sound waves or lights that they look like water. And if you take a flat earth perspective, there's just little lights that are going to fall on the Earth when the sun turns black and the moon goes blood. That

makes more sense on a flat Earth. Another one is Revelation chapter twenty one Versus two and nine to twenty one Versus nine to twenty one when it talks about the new dre jerusalein coming from Heaven and its it shows the dimensions of a cube. I want you to imagine a cube on top of a ball, and then the ball is spinning like that. How is the cube going to be held? Is the Earth just strong enough with its gravity to hold

it? But if it's a flat stationary plane, a cubele lands still and we're going to be able to go in through the pearl gates of God. Another one is Matthew chapter four versus eight, when it talks about Jesus on the high mountain and he sees all the kingdoms of the world, when when Satan is tempting him, like how can you see all the kingdoms of the world if the other kingdoms are under the ball or under you know, you can't see on the other side of the ball. So on a flat earth

perspective, it makes sense. Another one is Revelation nine verses one to two the Bottomless Pit. This is actually something interesting for you, George. I want to know your thoughts, but I like to believe that when the Bible says there's a bottomless pit, and it mentions that a couple of times. I think it's bottomless, so I don't I don't know how deep the hole goes. But you cannot have a bottomless pit on an earth, a ball

earth. You're just gonna like they used to make a joke, Oh you can dig all the way down to China, you know what I mean. That's you would find the hole on the other side. But if you take the Bible as truth, it's a bottomless hole and it'll just keep going and going and going. I don't know what that is, but I trust the word of God. Another one is Genesis chapter six to eight, the flood.

It just makes more sense. The windows were open, the windows of heaven, the Shamaiya and the sky, it was open, and it filled up like when you fill up a fish tank, right and they're held by the walls, and it was they filled up so high. But if you look at a ball, like the water is just gonna spread apart, and now you have it spinning thousands of miles an hour. It just that's really

really weird. Another one is when the sun stood still and Joshua and the Sun stands still, and if that happened, you can Yeah, you'd be flown up. You talk about that all the time. Another one is Daniel, I Have three more Daniel chapter four versus ten to seventeen. It talks about a very high tree. Again, put that high tree on the ball

and now spin a thousands of miles. It looks really funny, right, But if it's inside of an end closed system like a dome or whatever it is, it makes sense to go so high up in the tree that you can see to the ends of the earth. That's another thing. The Bible uses the word ends. That means it ends there's an either an edge or something where you hit the crystal wall or whatever that is. Another one is

Acts chapter one, when Jesus ascends into Heaven. I want you to imagine Jesus ascending into Heaven while the earth is spinning, so that it's just really funny to think about that. It's like where was he going too? You know, it's where does he go? Is he just gonna go to? And yeah, it's that that I mean, that's what the That's what they used to teach me in the youth group. They're like, yeah, Heaven's like somewhere else and I'm just like, man, this is so bad.

I mean, you know, thirteen years later another and the last one is Genesis chapter one, verse fourteen. When it talks about the lights in the firmament, it's very clear he puts the sun the moon inside the fermament. He breaks, you know, he says he separates the waters that we're above the fermament and the waters below the fermament, and you put the stars inside.

So that only makes sense on a enclosed system. But if you look at the stars being outside in the solar system, it just after seeing the sun under the what's it go behind or in front of the clouds, It just it doesn't make sense. And it's doesn't coincide with the Bible. So those those are just the things that I want to share with people, and you know, go read it for yourself, listen to the podcast and you'll find more cool stuff. That's awesome. And could you do me a favor.

What was the verse and Revelations you said with chapter and verse with the cube? Oh yeah, the cube. So that's in Revelation chapter twenty one versus nine to twenty one. That's when it that's when it talks about the dimensions, seven angels, et cetera. Yes, it describes a cube. That's what the new drills one's going to look like, which is really interesting.

Jasper Stone clear is crystal interesting. Yeah, the like earlier when I was talking about, uh, that one what is it called that one Instagram page? I highly recommend you guys check it out. It's really really good. If there's any other one that I would ever follow, I mean, if there's any page I would follow, it would be hers. It's the Flat Earth Gate. It's g U A t. E. Flat Earth Gute, and she has like up so much knowledge on on Biblical passages, on

everything. It's really really cool. So you can get a lot more stuff on there, and it's laid out really really well, so anything any kind of thing you want to look for, you can just click on that and it'll show you everything with all the links. It's it's a really good resource. I'm looking at it right now and I already follow her. She's got seventeen thousand followers and she has different categories Nasalis Antarctica, the Moon, Facts

and Science, the Bible. It is real And I will put this link in the show description so people don't have to go searching for it. They can just click on the link and follow. Yeah, and she's really cool too, Like if you send her a message. Out of all the other flatter people that I've messaged on Instagram, because I've been trying to like talk to other people about stuff, a lot of them they probably think I'm a shill or they think that I'm just a troll or anything. That this person

actually responded and I was like, dang, you're really cool. And we will have conversations from time to time and she'll send me some video, some new stuff and I'm just like, wow, this is this is awesome. So yeah, I'll try to reach out to her. She really helped me out in my walk. That's awesome. Maybe I'll try to reach out to her and see if she wants to come on. Yeah, I told her she should come on. That's awesome. Well, it's been a tremendous ninety

minutes. It has flown by. You articulate everything extremely well. You've had a fascinating journey and much success to you in the future. And it's funny all of us in this community share the same struggles. We become a flat earthor we become very passionate about it. But the more anxious we get and we try to share it, it seems the more pushback we get. So we try to control ourselves and as we say, leave bread crumbs. That's right, It's just I love that leaving bread comes. Yeah, So I'll

give you the final words, sir. Yeah, Well, thank you. I really appreciate it you having me on your podcast, and it's really I've really enjoyed listening to everybody's podcasts or what is it their the episodes and just hearing everything like that. The look, what I just want to leave you guys with is I know that this flat Earth stuff is cool. Conspiracies are entertaining, and it's fun, and you know, it's always great to find

stuff. But the most important thing that I believe is that the flat earth should point you to God. It should point you to glorify Him and to recognize that this earth was created for us. He put the sun to shine light upon the earth, not to shine up into the skies, but to

the earth. So He created this place for us, and it should point you to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which comes from First Corinthians, Chapter fifteen versus one of four, and it says moreover, brethren, I declare to you the Gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, and in which you stand by, which also you are saved if you hold fast that word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. That's awesome, Charles, thank you so much. It's for sharing your journey and all the knowledge that you brought to night. I learned a lot and I hope we can link up again in the future, but that would be great. Thank you so much, George yea, and thank you all for your

continued support. Again. Send us your emails and if you'd like to join us like Charles did today, it is the flat Earth Files at gmail dot com, and make sure you check out the website, the flat earth Files dot com. And for Charles, I'm George. Everybody have a great week and until the next time, my friends, you keep your head on a swivel and we will see you you are listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network, Just the facts. Many