Episode 90: Flat Earth Conversation with Mark Sargent

Really true. Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It is time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files. We have a very special guest tonight. He is one of the legendary pioneers of the modern flat Earth movement. His video series Flat Earth Clues from twenty fifteen went viral and has played a significant role in many people's journey to the truth. Oh. By the way, that video series has millions of views and continues to grow every

single day. And you can catch Mark at flatober Fest twenty twenty three on October twenty feet and twenty second at Sam'stown Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. Conference hours are noon to ten pm both days. Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Mark, Sergeant Mark. Good evening. How are you, sir, Hey, I'm good, Thank you very much. And by the way, I am opening the conference on the first day, which means no

one's gonna remember anything that I do. Because the flatter the community likes to drink and partake of all sorts of things, and what they don't realize and we're trying to tell people now, and I'll mention on this show is like, look, drink responsibly because as you know, Vegas is different from other places. The bars don't close, so beforehand, you know, you know, it's like last call, and then eventually you'd go home. Well, you want to order six beers at three in the morning, you can do

that. I highly encourage you not to do that. Yeah, And the other thing I want to mention was, yeah, the Clues are still getting millions hits however the channel, but most of those hits are not even coming

from my channel. One of the reasons it went viral is because I made the Clues Creative Commons license, you know, I made it free to everybody, and three three just average run of the mill channels that look for the Creative Commons licenses, you know, because if you say it's like, oh great, I can put it on, I can get the nickels on my channel. And they named it. They didn't put Flight Earth in the title. One of them is called They're Hiding God or the Greatest Lie Ever.

One is called They're Hiding God with the Biggest Lie Ever with somebody stole from somebody else that was stealing, and somebody called it Under the Dome full documentary. Each one of them have millions of hits. And I don't know any of these people at all, and I didn't know until probably five months later after they first put their channel out because people saying, oh, I loved your two hour movie. I was like, what what to hour movie?

You know? Because I only made like these little ten minute videos and someone you know, of course, the Internet just mashed them all together released them as a thing. It's like, hey, great, you made thousands of dollars of it. I'm happy for you. So and but I get it got the word out, so I'm not gonna complain. Yeah, And I

think that's the one cool thing about the truth community. Sometimes plagiarism is a pat on the back, as they say, right, it's what I forget the phrase, So imitation is the Yeah, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. And you're absolutely right. It happens to us all the time. I like, it's part of my speech which I'm doing in the in Vegas. The speech is going to be called flat earth is the real pandemic.

And I try to tell people as I look the top channels and flat earth barely crack six figures, right, And those are the these guys have been around like me. You know, I crack barely crack six figures. I've been doing this for eight years, and yet every major channel on YouTube, if you can think of them, I don't care who they are unless they're movie reviewers. They've done a flat Earth video and and and with the

best and it gets millions of hits, millions of millions of hits. I mean the number one I think was Shane Dawson with like forty forty million hits, which is amazing. And what was amazing is all these channels did flatter videos. Nobody talked to us. So these guys are getting huge amounts of hits of our content and doing all this stuff, and it's you know, and once one of them did it, they all did it, and yet

nobody subscribes toward channel. We are the and I don't know if you're old enough to remember, we would be the Spice Girls of the conspiracy world. Yeah, you're probably going, why what are you talking about? I go, Spice Girls is the was the number one female pop band in the world. I'm fifty four, without doubt with them. Oh you you do not look it well, thank you very much. Seriously, you look a lot younger than me and I'm fifty five. So, uh, it's number one

female pop band in the in the world. I have yet to meet anyone that owns the album, so what happened? Point a lot of people bought it. None he's going to admit to it, that's yeah, come on, I mean they made two two blockbuster movies. They were so huge, right, and like, yeah, that's that's what we are. Lots of people are into flat Earth. Very few people will admit it in public. Ninety percent of our our membership is still in the closet, which I love

that I hate simultaneously the we're that secret army that's out there. Yeah. So just a little backstory about myself. I've had a podcast called The Fact Hunner for four years and probably within the first four or five months into the podcast, David Weiss sent me an email and I'm like, what kind of nutcases emailed me about the flat Earth? I deleted it, but the curiosity got the best of me. I pulled him back. I contacted him and I brought him on, and actually I think he had a video from Triple

seven. So by the time I brought him on, I was wide awake to flat Earth and It changed my life. And I had David Weiss on the podcast, and I was like so excited because I'm sharing this new found information to my audience. Guys, guess what this Heliocentian thing is a lie? And I wake up the next morning and check my email and I'm like, you're a moron. I'm never listening to your podcast again. I had no clue how divisive Flat Earth was in the truth community. Was that something

that you knew going in? Yeah, well I did because I was one of the early people that got into it. I was into it when nobody was into it. In fact, David was lucky enough he got into it just as the documentary, the Netflix documentary was wrapping up, so he didn't get to be part of it. And I think secretly, behind the scenes, he's like, oh, thank god kidding it there because everyone that was

in on it just got nailed to the wall. Yeah. However, had you had me on, I would have talked to you out of it, because it's one of the things that I tell people every holiday season. I say, Okay, here's what's gonna happen. Everybody. It's Thanks Gavin's coming up, and you're gonna want to go home. You're gonna want to sit

down everyone at the table or your carving turkey or whatever. You're gonna want to say, Hey, what's new in your life, Bob, And you're gonna want to say, oh, let me tell you what I'm into a flat Earth. Right, you've got to understand your context. You've got to understand the room, which it looks. You might as well tell people you've changed your religion, your sexuality, and you're a heroin addict simultaneously. Right. In fact, it would be easier for them to understand because I've had

horror stories come back. Because again that one of the drawbacks of flat earth is once you once you flip, once it's in your head, it's in there forever. However, simultaneously you've forgot the journey that got you there. You know, it may have taken you four weeks, it may have taken you five weeks. And then it's kind of like a like a children's puzzle, and it's like, you think, so simple, I should have known this in the beginning. You know what, I can convince a family member

over a coffee. It's like, in fact, I'm gonna try to do that because it's in my head. I see all the pieces into when you're talking to a family member, Yeah, they're gonna look at you like you've got a bug on your face. Yeah, and they do. So. Yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through that, because for me it wasn't that bad. Because what I did was when I made the clues,

I put the challenge out there to anybody. I said, look the internet, hive mind, here's all my contact information, which is such a great idea. Put all your contact information online, docks yourself. It's a great idea. No, I don't recommend that. I definitely, even women should never ever do that regardless. And I said, okay, I can't prove the globe in a court of law anymore. Tell me where I went wrong. Somebody come back at me and hit me. You know, I just

basically stuck my chin out there. And the people that came at me weren't the trolls, not right away. It was the subject matter experts, people in the military and structural engineers and air traffic controllers and pilots and stuff like that, and then of course the media, weird media stuff. I didn't

know what the hell media was. I never worked with a field producer before or anything like That's so when I'll give you a Rob Skip a story, you may have heard this one or maybe not, because you know, Rob was one of the first people to interview me, and you know, because I ruined his life and I was his excuse. So when he would bring when he would do the public public presentations, I was his insurance policy. He would bring up one slide he was. He would always say, I'm

ninety eight percent sure has this all goes south? It's this guy's fault over here, right, put a picture up of my clothes. I was the fault guy. And so I remember one of the producers from Coast to Coast contacted me almost immediately and said, oh, hey, okay, you know, tell me what about flat earth blah blah blah, and and they I go, oh, they go, what's your name of your book? Can I go, I don't have a book right, this is twenty fifteen.

And they go, okay, what's the name of your DVD? And I go, I DVD don't don't have one of those either, and and and she and she's like you could hear getting frustrated on the other end. She said, okay, what's name of your freaking website? And I go, look, I've been doing this for maybe five weeks, right, And and she's gone, why am I talking to you? How can you called me go out of the blue only only because my docs myself. So we worked

it out and she goes, okay, give me the Nickel tour. She goes, go I go, okay, here's flatter song and dance blah blah, and she goes, all right, you're on right, And then I remember I knew there was something going on because Rob asked me shortly after I got on TFR. He uh, because TFR after me a show, like after the second interview I did with Rob. They just called me up and they said I would like to be on TFR. Go okay, and Rob asked me, he goes, He goes, how many times you have to

solicit to coast to coast before they let you on? And I go, solicit? What are you talking about? He goes, Well, he goes, I've been trying to submit to them for like two or three years. I can't. I can't get on the freaking shell. And I go, uh, yeah, he do anything, Which is why again, if I ever lived long enough to write an autobiography. And I'm still and my options on that one. It's gonna be called unsolicited because for whatever reason, I

never had to pick up a phone. It just it just That's how I knew something was going on, because it just happened. People were just calling you right and left. It's like, hey, how would you like to do this? Hey, how would you like to publish a book? Hey?

You know? And then the Netflix thing went in a completely never and even when we were shooting Netflix for the thing for seven months, but none of the producers had any faith in it at all, to the point where it's like, well, we're never gonna get film festivals and we're definitely not gonna be able to sell it right as and like every film festival they applied to, they got in instantly to the point where they were sending me out

to film festivals, which is a terrible idea. They actually had me on people webcaving me, live streaming me live to watch me to make sure I can say the wrong thing and go completely off on the weeds. They want to know exactly what I was saying. And then when and then all of a sudden, you know, Amazon bought it immediately, and iTunes and then

finally Netflix. And yet kind of like you when Netflix bought my email low doubled in a weekend and I was already getting a lot of emails and then all of a sudden, you know, my email was just flooded with stuff and I'm writing people. It's like something happened I don't know about. It's like, dude, that Netflix picked up the movie. It's like, oh God, anyway, Sorry, I ramble, so please put me out of

the weeds from time to time. That's awesome. Hey. One thing that resonates with a lot of people in the big part of our podcast is we asked our guests to explain your journey to the truth, like it, were you into conspiracies beforehand? What was your life coming up? And what were your influences? Yeah, and then of course the step how did you come

upon flat Earth? Okay, so my life was fairly I don't want to steal this speech from Austin Powers, you know, you know, lose lessons summers in Rangoon where I was beaten with reads when I was tied up in a burlap sack. No, I grew up in uh the Seattle on a rural island in the middle of nowhere. I didn't know anything about. It's very naive, very sheltered. Didn't even know there was more than one religion until the laughter. I left and kicked out of university in my junior year

for manufacturing explosives on campus. It's absolutely true, which was basically, look, I was running a legal fireworks company on on campus and I got hit for it by the it's it's it's a slap in the rest. The first time you get hit. You don't want to get hit twice. It's basically a fireworks charge because I legal fireworks have only been illegal since really the sixties. And then during my community service because I knew a lot of teachers because

I grow up and basically a teacher's lounge because my family was teachers. I was teaching kids computers early computers back in the early nineties, okay, And and then entered a video game World Pinball tournament Digital Pinball from a little company out in Tokyo called Little Wing. Won the tournament. It was a year long tournament. I'm not going to tell you how I want it. It

takes a little while, but I did bend the rules a bit. I got the scores, but I bent the rules to where I basically finished the tournament six months before it was even over, and then kind of slipped in scores because again we'll talk after and and then part of my prize was to review one of their next games. I didn't like it very much at all, and I wrote this scathing review. Who knew that I that I could do I could review video games, And the developer from Tokyo says, yeah,

he's absolutely right, because we gotta make all these changes. It's like, you should hire this guy. And they did wow, and they were out. They were out in Boulder, Colorado. So I went out and interviewed for the job and they hired me on the spot. Went out to Boulder, Colorado on my own and did my own thing out there for twenty

years to where I was playing video games for this company. I was a ringer for the company, so I would go out to the conferences like World Boston, a mac World, sad fran and E three and stuff like that and make the games look better than they were. I was, you know, a game gamer ringer, but this was I was one of the early people to ever get hired to play video games for a living. But this wasn't your you know, the tournament kids that you have now, this was

a desk job, right. I was working. I was a working man, you know, if you can call it that, I sure, but I had I had all gamer friends. And then when that that finally ended, I taught proprietary software in Boulder, Colorado for the rest of those twenty

years. And during that time, I never got married, had kids, So I had huge amounts that you're old enough to remember this, you know, back when you could finish the internet, right, the internet was you know, we had dial up and there're only so many sites that were out there. Yeah, right, and so and if you don't have you get married or have kids, you have huge amounts of free time on your hands.

So I went down just about every rabbit hole you think of. I have an opinion on just about every conspiracy there was, and I went through and I only did I finish the Internet, finished all the conspiracies by the time I was I don't know, forty five, and to where I was starting looking to stuff that I never would have looked into before, you know, you know, like you know, are is the Royal family, lizard people, you know it did? Did Elvis have Bigfoot's baby and crap like

that, you know, the stuff that I haven't opened. Serious, I haven't opined on every conspiracy you could think of, but I would not look at flat earth. Flat earth was just stupid, Yeah, because everyone it's the only thing we debunked to children, which should be a flag in itself. It's like, why is it the only thing that's like, Oh, hey, kids, I know you're just old enough to form a conscious thought,

but you used to be flat Now it's a globe. Globe is gonna sit in the corner of your classroom forever, right right below the American flag usually and again a wonderful reinforcement. The CIA pays top dollar for that sort of conditioning. And that's so I didn't look at it. I didn't look at it. And then finally, in summer of twenty fourteen, I gave

up. I was like, all right, I'm not getting any younger, I might as well freaking look at it, right so so, but but I was on and the only reason I even looked at it at all was I was looking at hollow earth theory with Admiral Bird and he came up and Admiral Bird's like, oh, hollow Earth three. I like the whole Journey at the Center of the Earth thing I already watched. No, I mean everybody's watched Journey to the Center of the Earth movies has been those things have

been around forever. And that led me to Antarctica. And when as I was looking more, I kept seeing this whole flatter thirty flatter three and there were not a lot of people talking about it. And then and I was going, well, I can knock this thing out, this piece of kick and ever again everybody starts out in the negative. Everybody hates flatterer. David Weiss would ban people. He probably told you that one. But you would ban people from chat if they even brought it up. It's like lifelong band

and gone, you bring up flatter. Alex Jones did this day. You know, doesn't want people to talk about flat Earth. I mean he's just dragged, kicking and screaming into some of the interviews we did with him. So finally, after nine months of looking at this thing, you know, the days turned into weeks, which started into months, and the beginning of twenty fifteen, again I had that Jerry McGuire moment. People think, oh,

it's just a movie. It's not just a movie. It happens where I woke up in the middle of the night and I had the narrative in my head. I was wrestling with it. It's like, wait a minute, you know, if I could go with the other way on this, maybe I can get my answers if I say, if I if I make a series of videos, well we'll just start out with one video. I'm gonna put it out there to the internet hive mind and say, hey, Internet hive mind, tell me where I'm wrong. And so I got up

at literally three o'clock in the morning, and it was weird. And some people call it and what prophetic or touched or whatever. But I could hear all the dialogue in my head, in my own voice, you know, the whole the whole thing, paragraphs, just and I've never had such clear writing before. Where I sat down type and then the whole Forrest Gump thing kicked in its Well, I'm done writing, it might as well narrated.

So I grabbed a stupid you know, twenty dollars mic, you know, gaming mic, because that's all I had, and recorded it and then I'm like, wow, I recorded him as let some images to it. It took me all day. I didn't know anything about video editing. If you guys watched the original you can probably tell the way I cobbled it together. I mean, it's amazing, you know. It took me all day to make a freaking ten minute video, and that happened every day for a week.

I made the first seven clues in eight days, and it was cathartic, meaning I could go to sleep, but I wake up, you know, pretty early five six am, and I was like, oh no, I've got another idea, and I would I would write some more and then put it out there. And by the time it was done, I had a couple hours worth of videos called the Flat Earth Clues, and as I was releasing them, things started to happen. People again, people you know who you know, Well, you may or may not remember who this guy

is. You know, the first guy who contacted me was that Matt Boyland, the guy from the really Loud Canadian artist from the Netflix documentary You can't. A lot of people don't noise because he didn't make a lot of content, but he was this really loud, really eccentric guy who tried his luck with acting. He was a comedian. He was an actor out of Los Angeles, but he's from Montreal, Canada. Bo Y l a n Boiland

Boiland boiling. And he contacted me after like clue two. Talk about good instincts and he's like, yeah, you know, I like what you're doing, blah blah blah, and he had some ideas about collaboration, but his head was all over the place, so it never really happened. But yeah, he was literally the first guy that contacted me. And then they just kind of started snowbawling. So there you go. That's my my little journey, how I How I got here? And that was eight years ago.

There we are three books, documentary, I don't know how many conferences, I don't know how many meetups and again another conference coming up. So I mean this was one of the events. I mean, this is one of the biggest events that changed your life. Oh yeah, without without question. That's saying something coming from where I was. I mean, you know, I was, you know, from running a legal fireworks operation and count on

campus to becoming a professional video game player. This is octaves above that right. I mean this this because this, because this affected other people. No one cares about wont a video game tournament, right, trophy, show trophy and all sorts of people. No one cares the fireworks thing. It's an interesting story, good at parties, but that's about it. But if you go out and say, hey, you know what flat earth? If you say that seriously, like and like not ironically to people, you'd be amazed

the ripples it creates. I mean, the pullarizing two words I've ever seen in my life. To the point again, where were you and I were talking to the show every It was so polarizing that the rumors got around the social media world and everybody. It's like, dude, you want to get a bunch of quick hits and amazing amount of comments, you know, polarizing comments, ten times the comments you would normally get due to a freaking flat earth video, don't take a stand, or if you're gonna take a stand,

go against it and watch what happens. And that word spread around to where I mean getting you name it. I mean I knew when Beauty Pie did two of them that I was in trouble, or the fact that Logan Paul and I was one of the only guys even knew who he was at the time, showed it, you know, tried to punk one of our conferences, and then the very next confidence in Dallas, we were punked by Jimmy Kimmel and it's like, okay, now we're we're going into territory.

We were, we were going flying without a net most of the time. So but again it was that's that's the sort of thing that degenerates. And I do love it, but yes, it has changed my life forever. But at the same time, all I really did was say yes, where a lot of people didn't. And I get criticized a lot at least, you know, when he came on, it's like, aren't you an agent? Do you work for the government? Which people have accused me up for

so often, and I try to remind them. I go, you know why I get the interviews, you know why people get a hold of me because I put my name in my phone number out there. It's not hard. Now again, women can't do it because men are idiots. But it's amazing how many guys again still use no offense to you or any people you know, still use complete aliasis and don't put it. You want people to get a hold of you. The media would I try to explain, is

media is lazy. Not necessarily you, but I mean mainstream. If mainstream was like, hey, we needed to do a story on a flat earther, if that whatever, intern or low level producer, if they can't, they're all they're gonna do is do a quick search. If they can't find anybody in the first ten minutes, you know, they're going for the top of the list, whatever's there. They'll literally type in flat Earth interview and see what shows up, which is again, I'm happy that Dave is doing

as many as he does. He's of course killing it. My gosh, he's doing like twenty week Yeah, yeah, he's why. I mean, I only think he even knows how many he's done. I definitely know he's into four figures, you know, over a thousand interviews. But the difference was, again, I wouldn't trade places with them when when it comes to this is that he would contact people, or he would have people contact people, you know, right, contact just about every podcast you could think of.

The problem with that is, you know, so when when people contact me, they want to talk to me they're generally curious, and they don't want to They don't want to attack me most of the time. I'll see how tomorrow's goes, we'll say, but most of them they don't want to attack me because they again, they're they're worried. It's like, oh crap, we attack him. Who else are we gonna get when David goes. When David exlicits people, you run into occasionally podcasts that will they'll be in

a in one of those moods. You can't still be in the wrong mood, right. It's like, hey, hey, Frank, you want to talk to some flat earth. They say, oh, yeah, I want to talk to some flatter I'm gonna give him a piece of my mind. And he they do. They come after him and he has developed a very very thick skin, to the point where his interviews style has has changed. He has become what I call like a gypsy science teacher. What he does, it's it's really clever in a way. But I know, I know

it wasn't planned. It just it was just a survival instinct, which was he figured out that the best, you know, the best defense is a good offense. So he will remind people very quickly on how much they don't know about science, right, And it's a it's a great line to where I'm stealing some of that stuff even now, which is you know, I'll you know, I'll go to I won't do it as abrasive as he does.

It's like, you know, do you know how fast the Earth is you know, you know, spinning, and how fast is going around the Sun, how fast the Solar system is flying sideways? You know how fast that you know the galaxy is going through the universe. And and the point he gets to, you know, eventually it's you know, after her reminds me, it's like, hey, you don't know all of these things, right, so why are you defending it blindly defending heliocentrism blend, Why why

are you defending a model that you don't know right? You are making a massive assumptions just based on you know, all you're saying is the model, right, And it's like, well, you can't just say the model. You can't just say science, and you definitely can't just say gravity. So but but again, that's what I love is he puts them on their heels enough to where, yeah, he's still gonna get pushed back, but but they will. That kind of is humbling in a way because it's like,

oh, crap, I didn't know all these things. I'm really surprised that more people. Again, media is lazy that they don't listen to at least one or two. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they're ready for him memorize some of the factoids that we had to memorize to where if you because you knowing that at least you can come back and but while sorry, let me let

me back up just a second. If you, as you're knowing these things, as you're relearning all these little science factoids, you all of a sudden realize, hey, wait a minute, as you're doing your own math yourself, you know you're or you're working out the system, You're like, hey, that doesn't make sense. How how is this happening? If if again, we make massive assumptions, let me end with this the Truman Show line is so very very true, which is, we believe the world that is

presented to us. If somebody in a higher authority that you think is smarter than you, which you should never make that assumption immediately, if if they say, oh, yeah, the world is something we're not talking to me about a mechanic telling you it's like there's something wrong or your radiator. Right, you probably believe he's been working on radiators a long time. But do you have you have somebody that says, oh, hey, by the way, the sun is ninety three million miles away, and it's and it's so

many thousands of miles. Why it's it's this massive thing even though they've never been there, we've never had probe sent there or anything. And you know, they're basing it off of books which are based off of other books, the Tesla line. You know, the flaw with science is everything is stacked on top of each other, and everybody that goes one more rung up. They never checked the base. They never checked the core foundation that it was based off of. He goes. By the time you get up like five

or six, it's like it's meaningless because nobody checks anything below it. They just make the assumptions like, well, the science that I am working that I am climbing on top of, that's got to be right. Okay, really it's sure about that. It's like just lazy anyway, Sorry, No,

that's that's great. I want to ask you a question. I have noticed just within the last three or four years that the term flat earth has not been quite as divisive within the truth community, and I was shocked to see that when I started this podcast, the amount of numbers that we were getting and the responses. So do you think I've said for a long time, I do think that they And I'll ask you that question later who was they? But do you think they overplayed their hand with the COVID narrative to

the point where they accidentally woke a lot of people up? Because I have seen I get emails all the time, and one of the common emails I get mark is COVID woke me up. I saw the lies that they continuously lied. They tried to brought me with the cheeseburger to take a vaccine and you know, the joint for jabs, and just the three years of ridiculousness to where I think people started to understand that maybe they are lying to us.

Do you see the connection between the lives of COVID and people waking up? Yes, yes, they do the COVID thing unfortunately. And I don't want to get you into too much trouble. Whatever you want, as simple as I can here. Well, no, I mean because if this, if the audio goes up on YouTube, I don't want to flip the sensors. So I'll say shots and I won't use the word, you know, I'll just stay vax or vax or whatever it is. It won't people up.

From our standpoint, it stunted us in one sense because we couldn't do conferences anymore, because we couldn't find venues that would that would go without a mass for the most part, we couldn't do a national conference. We definitely couldn't do anything international. Twenty nineteen, for example, we were freaking golden twenty nineteen. We could do no raw and I did conferences in seven different countries and you know, did an endorsement. I did a mobile commercial in

freaking Australia. Really it was. It was awesome. Oh yeah, we were doing I mean there, let me let me tell you how quickly, how harshly things can get closed down. I had gone to London to do a conference right in the UK, and then came back. A producer from a morning television show called me and said, hey, we need you to fly back out to London working at you do a show. It's like really from the Seattle he just got back. It's like, oh wait, wait,

we'll pay for It'll be fine. So I, you know, bounce off of Iceland and go over there again and then come back. And as I'm back and somebody else calls me up and they say, hey, we'd like you to do a McDonald's commercial in London. I go, really, I go, how's that going to work? And they go, oh, because we had pancake Day here and you know, it's routed, it's flat. It'd be awesome. We'll work the graphics and it'll be solid. And it's like, oh, this is great. I mean, seriously, it

was gonna be if you thought that I caught crap before. If I would have actually done McDonald's commercial, people would have crucified. It's yeah, and uh no, I've told people. I go, look, you, if you tie me to a chair and throw pies at me, right and I get to say flat earth on camera, I don't care what you do as

long as it's still flat earth based. In fact, in fact, the mobile commercial, they even tried to do a take with me where I was renouncing flatter earth and I said, sorry, I can't even do it as an outake, I can't not do it. So but when I got back, right, you know, and I knew because as I was flying back, as I was getting on the plane back from the the London thing from the Morning Show, there was a lady with a clipboard walked up to me.

Again talk about your foreshadowing movie moment where she looks, she goes, She goes, so have you been to China in the last two weeks? I go, I go, I go. You know, I didn't know anything. He's like, no, why and she goes, never in check she walks away, and then of course, you know, but then the borders closed, so I mean, so everything was ready to go, and then all of a sudden, yeah, sorry, you're not going to London

because nobody's going to London. And that was it. And then you know, three years later, now did it stunt is yes, But at the same time, because again human nature, you know, people ran out of things to watch, you know, literally, I mean, how many people never would have thought I would have run out of things to watch on Netflix? Right, It's okay to the point where I like today, I think I've got a season and a half left of Supernatural, which I had never

watched. People don't understand. That's fifteen season kids, right, that's all. And that's twenty two episodes of season. That is a huge catalog. And I'm going through it because why the hell not? I got nothing else to watch? So what else? What else were people doing? Well, unch up YouTube on your television and start going down in rabbit holes, and

so people were getting woken up to a whole bunch of things. Why not because you know it's different now because everybody else's home, so you're recommending to other rabbit holes to people. So flat Earth came into it, and so they slowed us down in one sense, but they give it brought us broader exposure in another, to where now everybody knows that the flat earth is a thing. Beforehand, they knew the term, but they didn't know what it

meant. Now it's a thing. To where I was telling somebody recently that, you know, I've done a lot of school interviews, which David doesn't get to do. I talked classrooms. They call me up, really and I go, and I It's like, how I go, How exactly am I talking to a classroom? Right? And they say, well, because we watched the documentary, and I go what, It's like, oh yeah, it's it's required. It's on the syllabus. Wow, It's like what.

And and the reason is is because once it's on Netflix, and Netflix is generally you know safe, you know, unless it's got an Our rating. It's like no, that's mainstream media approved. And so it's like, no, no, we're just anything fringe on YouTube. We're having them watching Netflix documentary. And and so I talked to so many classes that would I mean so many classes that would say the same thing. It's like, oh, yeah, we were required to watch the documentary. I mean, David

and I just did. There was a girl two weeks ago from Sweden. She's doing her dissertation on it, not the documentary, but the flat Earth in general. And she's not the first one. So now yeah, so it's it's it's permeated everything. So the pushback, Yes, of course, there's still good people. The average person going into it's still going to go into the five stages of acceptance and denial and anger. You know, it's

still out there, and we've got some dedicated trolls. But I think some of the trolls are just trolling us because they can't flip, you know, once you're dedicated troll, and once you have your established viewer base, you can't flip because you'll lose the base. So now they have to be a troll forever. That's right. And I still think Joe Rogan to an Stent is one of those guys. He was a truther and then he was given a big payout to get away from the truth or community just before we came

into play, and Flatters would have been so fun for him. And so I feel bad, you know, because he'll he'll bring it off and off comments, He'll he'll throw it a guess, he'll try to be the the antagonist. But I know full well that back behind closed doors, there's all sorts of people that are again closet flat earthers that just can't say it because they don't want to for either sponsorship reasons or they're base or both. They don't want to they don't want to deal with the hassle. Yeah, you

mentioned Netflix. It's funny. I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but one of the CEO's the guy's name is Mark Randolph. He is directly related to Sigmund Freud. And even funny enough, Edward Burns, who I don't know if you know who Edward Burnes is, but he was the king of propaganda. Oh no, I watched that documentary that that multipart

series about him. Yeah, yeah, and he was one. You know what what I remember about that series is he had such the deeper he got in the more he learned about how to market to human psychology, the more heat found humans contemptible. Yeah, you know the lines like they're all idiots. It's like, just tap into that idiot, you know, part of it, and you can make them basically do anything. And sorry he would.

Yeah, the father of modern marketings. Yeah, yeah, and he wasn't he wasn't he the one that that helped God was it getting women into smoking yea torches for freedom or something like that. Yeah, they really busted

out their cigarettes and let them up. Yeah. And he was the dude behind putting fluoride and water and of course the again who would have known that the again, one twenty percent of people smoke anyway, But the one of the biggest pushes was just in implementing a pack of cigs into military rations for world yea boxhol You're hot jacked up. You've got nothing better to better smoke up, Jenny, Yeah, trustman, I smoked a lot of heaters when

I was in the military. You're else and yeah, you're trying to kill a lot of time. They actually had. They kept them in their MRIs through Vietnam, and I think the mid seventies they cut them out. You know it's well they had to after that. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Oh which, well, sorry, let me throw one more thing ahead before before he gets there. It's a little quick story. It's

tied to the whole shot thing. Cigarettes reminds me of this because you know, people say, oh, you know, you don't take the whole pandemic very seriously. I go, no, I don't. And the biggest reason for me, believe it or not, was something silly, which was I go, you know what it was, I go, smoking on airplanes and then they go, what do you mean. I go, well, you know they banned it, right, they banned smoking on airplanes. And they go why, I go, well, because second hand smoke nothing stops it.

You know, even your lungs don't stop it. Hence secondhand smoke, right, you know, you breathe and smoke you breathe on your spouse. Hey, your spouse Scott cancer who not Yeah, not picking on smokers. But the point was is that planes just use furnace filters, you know, as filters to circulate the air. And and pilots tell me it's like, yeah, they make coffee in the back, we'll smell it in the in the cabin, in the cockpit in less than ninety seconds. It's really fast.

You know, they have to keep the air, you know, circuling in the can. And they go, what's your point? I go, My point is is that if the furnace filled, if the filters in the airplanes can't stop smoke, and virus particles are way way smaller. Why didn't the airplanes shut down? The airport's never closed. I mean, yeah,

the borders closed, but that was an international border. Thing. Didn't fly domestic all day long at no point at lax Close or New York or any of these I flew in these planes and they all said the same thing. And what I try to get to people I go to look, I go, you can wear a masks all you want, but here's here's the kicker. If you can, if you're wearing your mask and you can smell something. That's it, right, I go, I go. Odor particles are

way bigger than virus particles. There's a reason why firefighters, when they go into major blazes they have full blown oxygen tanks. They might as well they're well be wearing scuobattacks because that's the only thing that stops smoke. So if the masks makes you feel better, hey great. Does it stop people spitting on you? Yeah? Sure, but that's it, that's all, that's all it does. So again, when they requirement planes, that was a

tough year. Yeah. One thing I'll take to my grave, I'll never forget is seeing somebody and I think every now and then you'll still see one or two people in their cars by themselves wearing masks. Man, that was just oh well, yeah, you don't want me to get started on that. But yeah, there's there's two things that happen. They're one. You know, you've got the comfort zone people that even when the administration changed, no one want to buy them and they rolled back to mandates. They didn't

care. They don't trust anyone. At this point, it's like, no, no, this is my comfort zone, this is my wheelhouse. That's right, And you can tell those people are gonna be wearing masks outside for the rest of their lives, which isn't really that much different if you ever, I mean, you're in the military people. I was used to it kind of because it was people always coming from Japan. Yeah, they always when japan people got the plane, it's like, what's with the masks,

And people told me, oh, it's Japanese people. They wear masks. You know, there's a percentage of Japanese people that do it. The other part, which is I don't want to pick, but it's it's unattracted people, which is unattracted people that realized, you know, they got more compliments when they were wearing the mask because it only shows their eyes. I mean,

how many people have ugly eyes, Let's be honest. Uh, They're like, oh no, I'm actually better with you know, with a with a mask, kind of like me, but I'm better with a hat. Whenever producer tells you it's like oh, dad, dude, you should wear more hats, It's like, yeah, I get it, I'm wearing more hats. Yeah. My mom said I have a face for radio. That's why I do podcasts. No, no, no, no, you've got it. You've got a very wholesome I like your face, and you got

and you got a bright smile. Oh thank you. I want to get into a few questions for me, and it sounds like for you now listen. We're always constantly learning. But uh, flat Earth was one of the last rabbit holes where I went down, and obviously you told the same story. I'm I'm really shocked. I've interviewed tons of people on this program. We bring just the listeners on and they tell their stories. There's a lot

of them mark that this was their first rabbit hole. They don't know anything about nine to eleven or Klahoma City, and I'm every time I hear their story like that, I am shocked. It's just amazing for me. I think I had to take that you know stairway, you know with JFK, the moon landing, the baby steps in order to lower my guard. But that is something I'm seeing more and more often, is flat Earth is their first rabbit hole. That is shocking to me. Well, that's good and

bad. I mean, I was worried back in the day. I was kind of jogging with some of the early people. It's like I was worthy there would be a percentage of people that would freak out right if this happened, you know, I mean like lose it. It's like it's like, are we gonna see like some people like put on full blown suicide vest It starts like flat Earth click, you know, stuff like that. But but

it never happened, which was great. Apparently simultaneously, when you shrink the universe down to a big studio apartment, you also create this comfortable sense of oh wow, but it's got purpose, so I don't really have to freak out after all. But the process, when it shrinks down, you panic, right, and it's like it's getting smaller. It's getting smaller. It's like, oh, it's not that bad, but getting there is a scary,

scary situation. If you learn about flat earth first, boy, that's gotta be a hell of a roller coaster because at that point you understand that you because yeah, if you learn about flat Earth at first, then you realize that anything can be lied about. Yeah, anything, so anything below that, I mean, come on, everything. And I feel bad for the nine to eleven people that would give me crap because it's like you're taking

away from the ultimate conspiracy, which is nine to eleven. I'm going, dude, that was two buildings three if you count building seven, which I do. Right of course, this is a whole other thing, but it's just it's one country. It's a tiny part of one country. I go flatter, it's the whole world I got. Nothing can compared to that. It's always going to be second tier to flat Earth. However, once again, once you realize that flatter is a possibility, then everything that anyone ever

tells you you can't discount. Right, you know again, I people I would just throw out of the room before again, the lizard people right right there, you or somebody would come up to me. It's like, dude, I'm pretty sure that Elvis and Bigfoot were like an item, right we're Hannah be like, dude, just cut back on whatever you're smoking. But now I'd be like, you know what, I got a few minutes, what do you have? What do you got? Bring it? Hit me

with that. So, I mean, I'm kind of envious in a way for people to get into flatters first, because then everything is a possibility. That being said, their trust probably of authority figures probably goes out the window really quickly to where you jump to to you know, the term the auto hoax thing, yea, which you get into that. I mean David Weiss, isn't that's every once in a while, which is I don't blame him, which is everything on the news is a lie, right, everything,

and and that shouldn't be your default stance. But at the same time, if you're play of the percentages, it's probably the safer bet because again, people forget kind of like the line which I'll jump back and forth real quick, which is because I asked people outside of this country, I go, why do you think the Americans went to the moon? Why do you believe the Americans went to the moon? Right? I know? You know our

Americans. You watch Fox News every once in a while. I haven't years, but I used to, and I'm one of the commentators on their. Dana Perino, she's still on there now. She used to be are preseector for the Bushes. One of her lines was really, really scary. She goes, I believe in the moon landings because I'm a patriot. She said that absolutely in that I know, and she said that straight to the camera. I knew exactly what she was saying, meaning whatever the government tells you

that's what you go with. I mean, you're from the military, you know that line. We have a saying on this podcast that patriotism is a hell of a drug. Yeah yeah, And it's like, no, we're we're looking out for you. Therefore whatever the government says is for your own good. That's right and so and I get it right. And inside this country it's like America waved little flags and we're great. However, you know, I ask people in other countries, it's like, why do you think

the Americans went to the moon? And they always said the same thing they said because it was on television, and the American media wouldn't lie. And I'd look at him, I go, you don't know us at all. We lie about everything. Yeah, in fact, we have layers of lies. America is the greatest show on earth, the operative word there being show. We're pretend, we're make believe. I mean, we're a fantastic empire.

Were we're the what was the line I used in one of my things, like we're the Michael Jordan of empires, very showy, very flashy. Are we the greatest, you know empire that ever lived? No, it's the Roman Empire. They crushed people and the big difference in I was kind of irritated the America didn't go down this line, but I know why they didn't. You once you start down the path, you can't with the Romans. The public demanded it. It's like, who have you conquered today for

the empire? Are you doing your part for the empire? I mean that was their thing. They waited for you, and it's like, what are your broadest today? Oh? You you took out half a Europe. That's fantastic. Who are you gonna, you know, hang in the coliseum with America. We try to do it and still pretend to be the good guys. And I get it's it's a good good thing and it works. You know, our propaganda machine is is top notch. So what was the initial

question on that? I don't even remember now, I'm so hooked on your your story one point? All right, but but that's but that's sorry. Oh the patriotism thing so uh and the moon landing crap. No, I think it was just patriotism in general. We were talking about. The first frabbit hole was the flat earth? Yeah yeah, yeah, and again if yeah one yeah, Once people get into it, then again, the authority can't be necessary. Oh yeah, it's the auto hooks anything, which is

everything on the news. You that's sorry thinking not back to where I was, which was the people forget that the news isn't objective objective journalism. I don't know if it's ever truly existed. You guys, want to watch a

wonderful movie that you know that stands the test of time. It's Citizen Kane going all the way back to where And this was based on a true story which was American like like we reinvented it or something, which is, if a very wealthy person is getting accosted by a newspaper, what's the answer, Well, you just buy the freaking newspaper and you can do whatever you want.

They're never going to write a bad story about you. Again, Transition that to radio, Transition that to television, Transition that to the internet, and you can do anything you want. So the corporations that are out there again, we tried to take the naive nature of people away, which is the news. You know, the whether it's Fox or NBC or ABC. They are owned by a parent company which is owned by a parent company which

has different interests, and those interests. They will dictate policy all day long. That's what they do, and they pit they don't in this country. They've done a wonderful job of pitting people against each other. Last thing before whatever question you have next, which is the question I have for people? It's like, oh no, there's no such thing. It's fake news. It's like, okay, I go resolve these two statements. Everything on CNN

is absolutely true, and everything on Fox News is absolutely true. The end, you can't you can't depend on which side you vote, and most people don't or most people do. I don't. The you know, both sides accuse each other of line all the time. We know full well. Last part, which is we know full well or you know full well whoever's listening, that there are conspiracies out there right in business and politics and sports and

entertainment and yes, even journalism and science. Right. The difference is is that there's media sanctioned conspiracies which aren't conspiracies at all. They're either scandals or their tragedies if somebody dies, right, Anything that isn't one of those two, anything that they don't want to dig in more about, that's a conspiracy. And that's fringe. But come on, I could spend all day on any one of those topics. Business and politics, I mean, come on,

there's corporate espionage. We know about the politics. They lie for a living, for God's sakes. Sports because there's nothing ever weird happens in sports. You know, no one's there's no scandals in sports ever, ever. Ever. The other thing, entertainment, come on all day long, all day long. At Harvey Weinstein. That was a nice laid incident. That's just one guy, right. And then journalism and politics, well you want to talk about, Oh, who is the journalist that said he was getting

shot in the helicopter over the Middle East? Remember him? And he had to do it? A pause? Tom Broke? Off? Was that his name? Tom Broke? And I think it was Tom crap go off to remind me later. And then and and science come on, happens all the time. And by that I mean every scientific version of anything. I mean

con they just look at all the scientists going all the way back. Most of the scientists have cut corners over the years, right, lead paint, lead, gasoline, asbestos, by the way, which is a great product unless you work in the factory. Then is that some grade, or how about all the scientists again nut to pick on smokers, that that that took the money and said, oh yeah, cigarettes absolutely fine, right lie under oath. Things like that happen all and don't give me started on the pharma

industry. You know science, science has conspiracies. So anyway, sorry, I go off. And it's interesting when actually, when I did that episode on Edward Burney's I actually played a lot of those commercials from the fifties. You know, my doctor chooses camel shows, the doctor letting up a lung dart. Money is money is such it's I shouldn't say it's the root of all evil, but it allows bad people to do bad things. That's a line from a movie, perfectly saying and but but it's so true. I

mean, if there's enough money in hell. There was a movie I just

watched recently called pain Killer. It was it was a multi part series about the the OxyContin thing, which was people forget that back in that Look, if there's money in it, we will be people will find a way to make it keep going all the way back to again, back in the days when they sold cocaine in the drug stores, or the fact that Coca cola is called coca cola, right, And and here's a quick story most people don't know, and that is I remember doing tech support for a company that

they made the high fructose corn syrup for coke. They were one of the companies that did this. And I go, yeah, I go remember when they used to do you know, coca leaves, you know, and the he goes, and the guy the other in phonic goes, what do you mean used to? And I go, oh, you're talking about it, he goes. He goes, dude, he goes, Once it's below the FDA's minimum threshold, you can do whatever you want. We still put coca

leaves in it. In fact, he goes, during the process, we have so much cocaine paste that we have to put it in a vault and the FEDS have to come and get it to destroy it. What on like a bi monthly basis. Wow, I go what and he goes, yeah, he goes, It's always been in there. It's never going away. I mean, he goes, because but it's below the FDA's minimum, so it doesn't count technically, right if it's below that. Whatever it is you

know you've seen or whatever. Yeah, yeah, parts per million. It's like, but it's still in there, and and he goes, yeah, it is great, that's that's awesome. Or again the movie Painkiller so well, I thought was interesting was they figured out a way. You know, once Heroin and Cooke you know, became controlled substances, it became illegal. That's like another company stepped in. It's like, how can we repackage heroin into a pill, right and then push it past the FDA? Can we

do it? And can we get away with it without people fit? You know, how long can we do it before people you know, figure out what we're doing? And they did it for years, years, and you know, on the nineties and the early two thousands, it's it's a fantastic looking you don't want to do the whole history of oxy conton. There you go, one family figured it out, They figure out, you know,

and again what did it takes? All they had to do is bribe the right FDA person's right, that's it, and then then you're you're good until cities start collapsing, you know, until the crime rates started jacking up, and then then America has always been notorious for taking things too far. Always you wonder why if you ever look at British media, why they run so so many stories in America? You know, because we're the ultimate British spinoff,

you know America. We they look at us over there and they go what they've been up to? Now? They don't want stories in Canada like this. It's always America. I mean, people forget we used to sell This is too old for most people. We used to sell machine guns in the hardware stores back in the thirties, literally sold. But you could buy a hammer and a machine gun at the same time. And why not Why wouldn't you. Yeah, you could order guns on through your comic books or

I don't know what your comic books, but you can through catalogs. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and yeah fully automatic weapons. And you know, the Roaring twenties, there was no joke. The shootouts were amazing, you know, and the cops had them and the and the and so when like the later guns stuff happened, you know on the eighties, you know, the big assault weapon thing, it's like, we've already done this. At

one point. This was just on a on a slightly different than what had happened was all the cops had switched back to revolvers, and then the drug dealers started picking up. You know, there were places and it's like, well, the cops were like, hey, we're we're not doing well in these shootouts and so, and we're not gonna let Basically, what they figured out was, we're not going to give cops the your beat cop machine guns anymore. They're not going to keep machine guns into the trunk. So we're

gonna we have to ramp down the the the assault weapons. And I got it. I mean, come on, I was year old enough to remember what was happening in the eighties. It was nuts. It was absolutely freaking nutty. What was going on. Did you do you ever go to the gun shows in the early nineties, Uh? Yeah, sure, occasionally,

Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I went to one up in near Seattle, and I was there when like six at F agents decided to just remember this was before any of the legislation was going down, so they showed up just

to kind of walk around and see what was going on. And the horror in their faces when they were walking through, you know, because we're talking about a fair ground's barn or two just jammed the freaking bristling with weapons and they were you know, gang members and bikers and merchant marines and you know off duty cops and everyone's just buying stuff. You know, within seconds, there's no paperwork, there's nothing. It's like the system we built is completely

useless. This is this is happening everywhere. It's like yep pretty much. And that's why they were like scrambling, just freaking I got it. I mean, I remember, you know, picking up a I think I picked up a Ruger pistol once brand new in the box. Uh in like under thirty seconds. Who's that fast? Guy had a cardboard sign, you know on his back. It's like a three hundred book book book done there you go, yeah, yeah, America, God bless her. We do stuff.

By the way, fail fail Army. The channel I recommended from people. It's like, look, you don't want to see Americans on a regular basis is growing up there you go hold my beer? Yeah, sorry, go ahead. I watched that a couple of times a week. Just when I'm feeling bad about myself, I turn on exactly me too, and I'm good and and by the way, and I don't want to do racial profiling, but you know what I see when I watch a lot of that, and I bet you, I bet you this happens out there. It's white

people problems like white the people of really dumb things. I am sure there are other demographics out there watching and tail army going wow, why why would you do this? That is hilarious. I want to get to cut to some of these questions. Okay, what do you got? All right? So first one, I got a couple from me and a couple from listeners,

and a couple of audio questions. This one is so flat Earth Clues, which delves into the possibility of our human civilization actually being inside a Truman show like an enclose a Truman show like enclosed system, and how it's been hidden from the public since nineteen fifty six. So and that's in you.

I think your YouTube about in your show why nineteen fifty six. Nineteen fifty six would have been the when the last major Navy operation was happening down in Antarctica, which is also known as was its fifty five fifty six Operation Deep Freeze, which was by Admiral Bird his last mission, by the way,

before he died of whatever cause. And honestly, you know, watching him on television, he was a problem because he was too casual on camera, he was too good on camera, and he let things slide that even nowadays would make people, you know, producers wins. Which was you know, I knew when he in that line where he was talking, it's like, oh, yeah, there's coal and there's there's oil and uranium and he stops, he goes, I probably shouldn't have said that. It's like, oh

god, do you imagine the handlers scatching? You know, It's like, oh dudelet come on, you can't you know. And then it's like, well, you know, worried, worried we could be fighting about this.

So yeah, so an Operation fifty five fifty six. What I what I believe was they were still looking, you know, for the better part of thirty years, for any sort of evidence that there was an outer barrier, which would make sense, which would mean that you put the outer barrier, you take the coast of Antarctica, and then you go inland thousands of miles, right, because they'd have to be thousands of miles because it took you

thirty years planes and refueling stations and flying the ice and flying and flying and flying, and then you give up I think at one point they're like, well, maybe either we won't find it, or maybe it's just not there. And of course Murphy's law. During Operation Deep Freeze, they found something,

but they weren't going to talk about it. All we knew was when they were done with Operation Deep Freeze, they immediately started working up the paperwork for the Enter Treaty, the only unbroken treaty in the history of treaties that said, yeah, everybody off the ice, no one's going down there.

We're basically militarizing it. No one, no country can own it. And again, the big red flag for me was that not only are you not allowed to go down there set up company, you know, no matter how much money you have, which you tread flag which, But the other one is you're not even allowed to talk about it. That's the big one, which is you have a big oil and gas company. They are notorious for

running like full page ads and newspapers back in the day. You know, it's like, how great you want to, you know, influence public opinion. You run page ads because they can't miss it. And he's like, how great would it be for British petroleum to be down an antarctical. It's jobs, it's security, it's Britain, right, you know, fly the Union jazz. So but they weren't even allowed to do that, and I knew exactly why, which was like, oh yeah, that would be standard

protocol. You know. You you go to these companies, you say, okay, so you're even thinking you're just the top guys, right, whatever it is the top guys, and say national security, don't even think about it, don't even talk about it. And when you retire, give them this card and have them call us, and then we will come in and we'll do this over again. We'll repeat this. And that's what happened. I mean, every country that came online as an economic power had to sign

this treaty. No one's allowed to question, no one's even tried. You know, if you think it's like China, why didn't they storm the ice? In fact, one of the big flags also was the only people the only country that was down there during World War two, which was Nazi Germany's right, everybody was gone and they were down there. They were working hard again because Indiana Jones was not just a movie. There are some countries and I will hand it to Germany. In this sense, there's an old saying

called All's fair in love and war Geneva convention. Yeah, it's a nice idea, but the truth is whatever wins the war period, right, if you're if you are ruthless enough that you've heard the military saying, which is the difference, all sides being equal? It usually comes down to the what the person's willing to do something the other guy is not right? You know, who's willing to take steps that who may even be unethical the then and

we're talking about flexible ethics here. So if Germany all of a sudden, you know, Germany's looking for the Holy Grail, if they're looking for you know, Froto's Ring, if they're looking for Harry Potter's wand if that will turn the course of the war, Oh yeah, they're gonna find it. Right again, people thought it was a great movie. It's it's not a movie. They're looking for these things because they hope to God. It's like, look, if we find a weird wand that we incinerate a battlefield,

Oh yeah, we're using it. We don't care. Wait even if there's blowback, you know, it kills half of our guys, we're still doing it. So they're down there and they're setting up shop and then you know Operation High Jump right after the want the second they sign the papers over in Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan a meat, it's like, oh yeah, Richard byrd okay getting on a carrier group. We're saying, a full

blown carrier group with infantry down to Antarctica. Why oh, science reasons, no reasons, let's go, right, And he knew why I was going down there, and whatever was done, it was, it was over with by the time you got on television for the Long Jean's Chronoscope Show in nineteen fifty four. Yeah, that sounds about right. And uh yeah, so there you go. That's amazing because that was actually my follow up question. I think history very much is in line with what you were talking about,

David Weiss and the news. I think it's at best our history and and the news is a little bit of truth covered with a lot of lies. And you're you're a truther, and I'm sure you've gone down the World War two rabbit hole as well. And yeah, you know, Stalin is a great guy, right, But it's amazing here, you know, they were on the version of World War Two, and he's got folk in Poland and over here, and they've got a fleet called, you know, down in

Arctica, a New Swabia. But you know, they don't teach that in high school. Nothing to see here, there's nothing. Antarctica is this little continent on the bottom of the earth. I mean, when you stop and think about these things, it's like, how how are you not processing the next step? You know, there's a Germany, this small country, has a submarine fleet down there working you know, furiously in Antarctica. And oh, by the way, in South America at the bottom of the continent they

set up and to this day you can look. They have German cities in Argentina and they still have the same structure and the people down there. There's a lot of weird things going on there. Mark, oh Germany. People don't get And I think in alternate timelines, you guys, want to watch a fun series if you never watched it, watch The Man in the High Castle. I'm really surprised they actually made that series because there but that's based on books, which was why did Germany lose? And I think in a

whole bunch of other timelines. I think we're living one of those rare timelines, you know, like the Doctor Strange one where where we actually won because the that war was over. Just so you know, before Paul Harbor this thing, it was done. I mean, Russia was burning, Europe was conquered. They were just toying with England, and you know, Germany was just mopping up. They knew before wha they're gonna do they were gonna eventually

take Moscow of it wasn't gonna be that winner. It was gonna be the next one that would be that. Then they'd have the Russian resources, they'd obliterate Germany. And the whole point was they weren't going to fire a shot on America, not a single shot. They was supposed because there were so

many German citizens over here, and my family being one of them. They were oh yeah, Minnesota and in Wisconsin, huge German communities, and I mean they were all over the place, and so they were gonna run dual flags and that was it. They were America. Why would you ever burn them down? Right? And they were the they were the crown jewel. They that's where they were going to take the only thing that could get in a way was of America turned against them, and then all of a sudden,

Pearl Harbor miraculously. You know the problem that the conspiracy was too big for most people back then, which was Pearl Harbor gets bombed on a Sunday, you know. And and Japan then you know they're because Japan's allied with Germany. You know, in a in another timeline in Germany probably shouldn't been allied with Japan. I mean kind of it was silly anyway, they were gonna take over Japan anyway. But anyway, Man in the High Castle an

interesting series. But yeah, well every war that we have fought has been again numb. Everyone knows the history is written by the winners quote, but I think Napoleon's quote is actually more devious, which is he said history is just lies that are agreed upon, and you know where it's like, okay, we've won. What's the story we're gonna put out there? Right? Because we don't want to And it's mostly I don't want to. I don't want to pick on women, but it's mostly for the women, because women

do not like sending their sons to fight for things. However, the old tricks of the best tricks, and people human means will fight for revenge from now until doomsday. The old one of the oldest tricks in the book, which is you walk up to somebody. You've done it yourself. I'm sure you walked up somebody, Yeah, hit him in the back of the head, and when they spin around, you point to your best friends. Right, he did. It's one of the oldest tricks ever and it works almost

every single time. All you have to do is keep a straight face, right or sell it. It's like, oh, dude, don't will be hit you And it's like, ah, you know, people fight for revenge. And again, you know, nine to eleven every American war we've ever fought, I mean seriously, the Civil Wars, Smash American War, the the Revolutionary War, which was basically the French people. Again, the fact

that most Americans don't even know. It's like, no, we had to buy the country back from France. Ye, go ahead, they won the war for us. It wasn't us. We were yeah, we were there, but it's come on. The Louisiana purchase was massive, and I probably would have been even bigger except they hadn't explored any further it's like, hey, by by the country off of us, you know, back from us, you always, and then we'll split Canada between England and France, which

makes no sense. Still try to figure that one out. It's like, how England get that part of Canada and France got the other one? Seriously Quebec really it's anyway? Sorry, go ahead now you're good, by the way. Philip Dick wrote the book The Man in the High Castle and if you want to another, all the Men from Electric Dreams. Uh no, The Man in the Philip Philip K. Dick, Yes, yes, yes. He also wrote some the I think the miniseries Electric Dreams, The Electric

Dreams and Scanner Darkly. Oh wow, yeah, wow, he's gonna mind on him. Yeah. I again, I am really surprised The Man in a Hot High Castle as I was watching it and it got made. Yeah me too. I'm like, it's like, it's like, okay, so you're not gonna let Iron Sky get distributed in the United States, right,

even though I don't really. Can you imagine again, I'm not picking, but you imagined the Jewish community watching the trailers for Iron Sky and calling each other's like, so we're not gonna let this actually play in America, right, because this is horrifying. But you know, one of the little things that he did, which absolutely was I think dead on, was in Man in the High Castle. Again, the general public doesn't know this. How

they had concords. Concords were the basic form of travel, and it's like, yeah, we can make passenger planes to crack the sound barrier. However, for aesthetic reasons, we don't because we don't want sonic booms everywhere. And there's some livestyle concerns and crap like that. But with Journey, they're like, yes, screw that, we just want to get to the point A to point be as fast as possible. Therefore everybody's flying freaking concords.

I actually agree with the logic. It's like, why would you want to fly anything else? And you're you're perfecting it while you're doing it. It's like, why are you flying stub sonic if you don't have to? But whatever, again, fascinating, fascinating, serious. It got a little weird towards the end, but whatever actually would kind of got by the time it got to the end, it was kind of delving into the truth, which was, Okay, what timeline are we living in, because again they their

timeline, they won. At our timeline, we won, but they didn't really go and like Japan was going to share it with them. Oh no, no, no, no, zero chance of that happening. No, they were going to get to Japan eventually. Why because if you didn't get not to be brutal, but if you didn't look like German people, you weren't going to be part of the empire. Yeah, let's just how you

were. So I have a question from a listener's name is Joe. When he asks kind of video game simulation of glow Birth helped prove flat Earth or vice versa, he'd, you know, obviously had heard that you've been in the video game community for a while. Is that something that has crossed your mind putting together a video game to kind of drop breadcrumbs for flat Earth? I don't. I don't have to, and it is that's a that's a

great question, by the way, Thank you too, Joe. Which is you know, yeah, because I came from the video game world, and a lot of people don't know this, which is most of the video games ninety nine percent of the video games are made on a tabletop flat scenario, meaning oh yeah, there might be some valleys and mountains and stuff like that, but the edges lineup. And I don't care what you're playing, whether it be Warcraft or FORTNIGHTE or GTA or whatever. I mean, Minecraft being

the most blatant example. I hate that game. It's so terrible, and I hate I hate the fact that Lego didn't go to that guy immediately and just buy it out right. It's like, dude, this is a Lego game. You could own this right now, and they lost so much money by the time they figure it out. But but the games are made tabletop flat. And what's interesting is also the sky is also it's it's fact that the the graphics models that they use to create the sky are called a skybox.

So yeah, when you're looking at the sky, you might see planets, you might see the moon. Everything seems like it's curved and maybe even dome like, right, But engineering wise, computers don't like curves. In fact, they can't technically even draw curves. They can only draw right angles. Okay, so which is why pixels are squares, right. You know, it's an engineering A engineer will tell you this. It's always square Scar

Scar scar square. Right, it's legos don't have really, you know, you don't have let curve pieces, so you can you can make spheares, but when you zoom in and zoom in, it still comes down to you remember that as things get pixelated the old term. So when it comes to the skies and the video games, they're all Skybox systems. Everything's angled off, everything's squared off. So if this place was a simulation, by the way, then the dome, the snow globe that every culture has been drawing

since the dawn of civilization is an illusion. And then outside of this, let's say it is you know that what in fact, what you've got the Orlando Ferguson behind you, which I love, you know, And by the way, I was a huge fan of that because I like the I just liked the whole feel of it. I liked it was made in the eighteen hundreds. I even liked the the whole roulette table feel, you know,

because it really kind of looks like a roulette table. Indeed, but people immediately called me up and they said, yeah, you can't use roulette table anymore when you're defining it. Even though again I love them. I've even seen the the being blown up original I think it's in South Dakota. It takes up like half of a room, which is really awesome, which is why that every picture you see if it's so high rest. But they said you can't use the roulette table like and why not they go because all the

numbers a roulette table add up to six hundred and sixty six. That's what. That's not true. It is true, It's absolutely true. Wow, Okay, that's not ominous at all. So yeah, video games, there's only one or two that actually use spherical modeling, and I don't even remember which ones they are. And the reason why they do it is one, it's easier to code. Why would your code in a sphere it's tougher to do. Why would you ever try to work in the spere calculations because that

affects freaking everything. And the other is the average gamer won't notice it. I mean, I played Warcraft for sixteen years and I looked out at the horizons over the ocean right and everything, and you're looking over it and yeah, there should be a curvature there, but you're never going to notice it. But you tell place, well, oh, you know, if you ask them back in the day, oh, is there a curvature to the warcraft Horizon, most people would say, I don't know. You know,

they go whatever way you were trying to lean them towards. But there isn't. It's absolutely a tabletop flat, you know, especially over water. And so yeah, it is so trying to make a game. Now there we are making a game, but it's it's kind of delving into it's still a flat game, but it's not doesn't have the it's more of an informational trying to get people to go to different websites and stuff like that just came out. I don't even know the name of it. I just found out about

a couple of days ago. Cool. Thanks for that explanation, and thank you, Joe. Can I play one of our two audio messages for you? Sure? All right, here we go, and this is from our friend in Transylvania. Hello. Question for Mark, what do you think about the Virgin galactic tourists space flights? Keep doing what you're doing, saying searching, we will find the truth eventually. There you go. I love his accent, right, he sounds like a cross between a vampire and grow rob

Oh my god, Oh it's so great. I almost expect him saying blah blah blah, I want to suck your blood. Okay, when it comes to you, I won't just do. I'm not picking on him. That's a great accent. Absolutely, I don't. Uh, why stop it, Virginal, he said, Virgin Galactic, right, yes, last week or two? Yeah? Please, No, every every private space agency has huge holes in the plot, some better than others. Virgin clac there's just a token on the side of this whole thing. It's like, Oh, we're

gonna go straight up sixty miles. Uh huh. Okay. First off, you've been telling people they are going up sixty miles, means you're probably not going up sixty miles. And he's saying, oh, we're going to space. They're not even saying the edge of space anymore. They're staying space. What a little crap. Then you have what blue Horizon. I think that's Amazons. They haven't done anyone and anything, anybody any favors, but anyways, but Virgin Galactic, oh, no, Blue Horizon. They're the one

that goes straight up and straight down. Virgin Galactic. I don't even know what the hell. Oh they're doing that plane that rocket and then the plane falls off of the rocket. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the rocket power plane. Yeah again. People want to show out money to go up at a certain altitude. That's fine, but you're not you're what are you doing?

You're not you don't even have you have a very limited I mean, if you want to do a parable the cheaper option would be to do the hollowed airplane for the parabolic flight, the Moomit comet where you get up to a certain height and then just nose down and really, then it's not anti gravity. You're just falling without wind. That's all you're doing. It's not anti gravity at all. It's it's an illusion. It's it's stagecraft, really, which is thing is gravity, so it can't be anti gravity. Oh

yeah yeah. And then SpaceX. Of course, I don't even know where to start with SpaceX. I mean, they are a United States military puppet arm of arm in the military. They they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. That The people say it's a private space for Everment's like, what are you talking about? It is run by NASA, It runs off NASA facilities.

You know the fact that NASA even allows them to use Cape Carnaveral and Kennedy right as their pads, Like that's direct competition to what they're doing. And and yet again that the general public believes that you know, they've turned they've tried to turn Elon Musk, who I I don't say I hate a lot of people. And again I don't hate him as a person. I hate the idea that they chose him. That's what that was their option.

Yeah, that's what they came up with. Again the line from Armageddon that where Brustlis is yelling at It's like, and this is the best idea you could come up with. You're not asked to forgot, It's like, this is it right? This is what you got. So when I mean, they try to turn Elon into Tony Stark and he's he's used for all sorts of everything. And again because the general public has such short term memory, they don't understand that he hasn't done anything right. He didn't create PayPal.

My uncle came to me and you know, looked at me, and I shocked him with it, and it's like, I go, you realize he didn't found Tesla, right, and he just bought it right, And at the same time he's he I guarantee you within two years he's going to ask the kid on the street, Oh yeah he found it X. No he

didn't. He bought Twitter. And he only bought Twitter because he had to buy Twitter because his lawyers said, no, they're going to sue you because you said the taught stock price was perfect time to buy and it's gonna be cheaper for you to just buy it then destroy it rather than fight the legal fees and get nothing. That's right. Still, Oh and sorry, one one more, let me throw one more. Since we're doing private space companies, let's throw in the one that happened this morning, which was India.

Oh my gosh, so India, you know so yeah, so Russia supposedly tanked on the moon right slowly crashed. It's like, okay, no proof of this at all. You just said, oh, yeah, we launched, Okay, fine, you launched a rocket, and then some days later you say you tanked it on the moon. Wow, sounds totally legit. India was right behind them, supposedly. The graphics are I'm looking at them right now, and you've seen over you saw any of the headlines from today.

The graphics are I don't know, pre nineteen ninety eight, a little better than they're horrible, a little better than pong, yeah, a little a little better. I mean they're they're Atari graphics. And they even added stars to the graphics. And then the single shot that the years was was terrible. But here's not here's the part that they got. The part that GOTMI was the insulting part. Not only did you say that you landed on the moon India right, when I think high tech, I'm not picking on

India. Look, they do a lot of tech support. I don't think India right, It's Japan, It's it's German engineering, it's the United States, it's every once in a while, you know, Italy. India is not think about for a space program right now. And not only that, but they said they did for seventy five million dollars. I'm going, what one day? Right, Yeah, that's one day's worth of NASSA. I go, not only I go, I go, I go. Super yachts.

You can't even get a super yacht for seventy five million dollars minimum for a super yacht, even just one hundred foot or it's two hundred million dollars. Right one, You notice for the military, F sixteen cost sixty three million dollars and that's not even fully loaded. That's not even fully rocketed up right. You want to throw on some sidewinders and it's not. Yeah, then then then you're upwards of seventy eighty million dollars. But these guys supposedly

went to the moon seventy five million dollars. They landed. It took one snapshot. So wow, we did it. And of course we were there the entire time. NASA was the consultants on all of this. We ran the trajectory, we ran the computer. It's horrible computer animations. So yeah, but again all of India bought it. They're like clapping little little flags. It wasn't funny. They're premiere whatever sitting there with a flag like just kind of ball. That drove me in the laughing. I hope that's the

image you want to use. Even you wouldn't even put Biden with a little as No. I mean that was that was a carnival puppet holding that flag. I mean I looked at his eyes and going there's nothing there, no lights on, but nobody's home. He's like just wave the flag man. In fact, it may not have you even been live. It may have prerecorded that for sure. Why why you know the guy holding the flat why? Why the hell? And on? Just run that, run that video

for sure, it's gonna keep it on a loop. It's gonna be it. That will be a gift before it's over. Oh yeah, that'll be a gift. And we'll make it a TikTok video as well. But sometimes three Stooges music with it or something. Since we're talking about these things. Who who was it? Okay, here it is flat Earth. Tom from Kansas asks how high do you think the firmament is at its apex? You know, at the center above the north star? Uh? Eight miles?

No, No, nobody knows to be sure. All I know is it's way lower than most people think, do I. The only reason we draw it as a snow globe infect if you go into Google and type in ancient cosmologies and hit images, you'll see what everybody drew. It's really weird that they all drew about pretty much the same thing, which looks like a snow globe. But it doesn't have to be that high, so it's probably more like a shallow sports stadium. And I say that because human tech are Human

technology doesn't go that high. So the average I mean mostly like most of our civilization lives between sea level and one mile up. That's ninety seven percent of the population. Then commercial aircraft cap at about fifty thousand feet or ten miles roughly. Spy planes, if you believe what they'd tell you, cap

out of roughly twice that twenty miles. So even if it was a thousand miles up, that'd be way more than we need to do what we need to do, especially when it comes to rockets, because you remember all the rockets. You want to look at telemetry, look at time laps. Any rocket, you know, it goes up and then it just goes horizontal so fast, I know, no one even questions it. It's like where's it going. Well, it's gonna go down there and then it's gonna go up

this stunt. It's like, why I didn't go up? Now? No one wants to talk about it. So it could it be three thousand miles up? Maybe? Could it be less than a thousand miles up? Maybe? Don't know for sure. The rockets that we've we've fired up there. You know, the highest amateur one that I think everyone went up was less

than seventy miles. Uh, you know, a getting it if commercial trapp if if the average if of the population doesn't even go up to ten miles, then how high you know, how high do you have to make it to make it to pull it off? If only the military knows how high it really is, then you can you can keep it a secret for a pretty long time. That the reason why our population has not figured this out, The biggest reason is because we don't have flying cars. And by the

way, on the side note, we're never gonna get flying cars. I'm not talking about the unified field cars. I'm talking about those pieces of crap giant drones that they're talking about, which is basically just a helicopter right with a whole bunch of little wings. It's like, no, dude, again,

fail army. You want you want to see why we're never gonna have flying cars, type in car fail into YouTube and watch an hour worth of what happens, and then you're gonna tell me you're gonna give that same population three d flying No. No, I mean, come on, we can't. We can't stop people from drinking and driving. No, you would have these things fallen in your backyard people backyard. Oh yeah, it would be the crashes, and plus you're guaranteeing fatalities. Yeah, I mean, and

the collateral damage would be horrible. So yeah, anyway, if we had flying cars, if we had unified field cars like UFOs, then yeah, we figured it out. And I also, by the way, think I don't know if you're a biblical guy necessarily, but the Tower of Babble story

one of the shortest stories in the history of stories. But I you know, I expanded on it in The Clues, which was I think the one that the very very early version of us was too good in that that, Okay, we made a completely unified people that had a single goal and hide intelligence, high degree of engineering, and they figured out what this world was immediately, And what do you think that they did. It's like, oh, yeah, so we need to go up there. Forget about the flying

cars. We're gonna build a freaking bridge to have it, you know, to get out of here. And again, I love the story because it rings so true because whoever was overseeing the world, let's say it was God or one of God's subcontractors. It's looking down going crap, it's not gonna work. They're gonna make it. Yeah, we've already done the math. It's not gonna take very long. So okay, scattered scatter, scatter,

languages, languages, get rid of that. Toower. We gotta we gotta redo this because it was so But but yeah, if we had flying cars, I think every I think every civilization has their chance, and ours was one of the slower ones. Because if you remove the unified field engine out of the equation, which is the UFO engine, right, which doesn't need aerodynamics, right, it just goes, you know, like an etch a sketch. You can go any any direction it wants at just about any speed,

and it doesn't matter if it's underwater. It would replace all vehicles, see with ours. The reason why it's so slow is we have to have a vehicle for just about everything we do. Right. We have cars, we have airplanes, of submarines, we have big trucks, we have tankers, we have all. With the UFO, just one engine, make it any size you want, you can do anything you can want. Plus you

can weaponize it on top of it. So if we had one of those yeah, we'd figure out this place really really quick, but we didn't. And five thousand years later, I think we're just about there. Yeah. And by the way, you know why, I think that the biggest, the biggest thing that did it for us. The reason why it got so easy to detect, why you couldn't detect it thirty years ago, which came now, which is why most people got into flat earth, was HD technology.

That was that was the big thing, which was you could see HD cameras. Who would have thought cameras that you could see further than you should be able to And people understood that. It took him a little while, and so you know, looking at it's like, hey, you see that boat. Yeah, you shouldn't be able to really, And and then I mean I didn't tell aid and the clues. You know, I'm not going to take credit for it. Nowhere any point in the clues that I tell

people to run to the beach and start shooting long distance photography. And that's what so many people did. And they would call me, and then again why they told me. It's like, oh, yeah, that Lauren a Lando ferguson map, you can't use it? And I go why because it's tabletop flat like a really and they go, yeah, I go, how do you know? It's because we were shooting over water and I go, and water it's flat. It's like I had to learn all these things from

from observers. They were right out and doing this on their own. I didn't even know where the inspiration came from, but it spread really really fast. Indeed, indeed it did. Where was my next question here? Actually, let's do another. And by the way, thanks for that question, brother. He's gonna be on the on the podcast and I look forward to that. Next one is a good friend of the podcast, Jim. Hey, George, I got I got something from Mark Sergeant. I'm a fan.

You know, I don't remember who I started listening to first for Flat Earth, but I know, I know, I know Mark Sergeant was in there. And uh, you know, I just want to say, because he's a humble guy, and I know he don't like to take credit for anything. Half the time. It's see, it seems like when people try to give him some credit, he you know, he's just a humble guy. And I love him for it, and I'm proud of him for it. I think it's I think his attitude is awesome. I just want to

say that I appreciate his humor and the way he handles conversations. You know, humor in a flat earth conversation is awesome to me. I laugh about it all the time. It just, I don't know, keeps it keeps you from being crazy about it. It's just a look at the humor side of it. And I know what I got a minute, So I just want to say, appreciate you, Mark, and I like the way you throw in humor on different things, and and we appreciate you. I'm out

there. You go, brother, Well that's awfully nice. First, I wonder if he has a like a lifetime members ship to NASCAR. The second, let's see the humbled part. It's like bow jown, lowly dog. How dare you say I'm humble? Yeah. I give credit where credit is due and I try not to take a credit when and Flatters has really changed

that for me. Flatters has changed my attitude toward love things. Well, one would be I'm never gonna do anything malicious to him, but he ever again, mostly because now that I know that we're living in some sort of structure, the high degree that we're being watched you know, it's like, you know, someone's got an eye on you, maybe not necessarily hovering over you, but definitely apparent on the sofa looking over the top of the newspaper

type of thing. It's like, what are they doing right? And what was ther thing? He said, Oh, adding humor to it. Yeah, if I'm not laughing, I'm crying. So there's there's a lot of bad things in the world, but I think there's a lot of very humorous things in the world. And I try to find the silver lining whenever possible, and if that comes off is humor, then that's what it is.

Try to the tension in movies. I love tension breakers. I love it when the movie's super supertense and then somebody comes in and figures out a way to break the ice, you know, And usually that's just a little perspective thing, you know, some some little name, some small comment that out of nowhere that people are like, okay, okay, now we can now

we can kind of move forward without you know, dreading the worst. Granted the powers that be, and you know, people talk about, you know, in the last three years we've we've been through and the great reset that people talk to talk about all the time. Don't forget that there's still I still believe in the plan, you know. I still believe in the design and everything for a reason. So whatever's happening to us now, Yeah, it doesn't seem like a lot of fun, but there's got to be a

reason for it. I don't believe in randomness. I believe in the the Einstein quote from years ago, which is, and I won't go into it too much necessarily, which is that God doesn't play dice. And I get that. I get that more than anyone, and it took me a long time to figure that out. But the short version is is that there's a plan here. So we thank you. I appreciate, I appreciate the compliments

and thank you for that. And I'm not I'm not going to take credit for much pay I can only tell you that I was there in the beginning with two other guys, Eric to Bay and Matt Boylan, and the three of us we did not see eye to eye at all because they're completely different personalities. Matt was basically insane and Eric was and is. He doesn't like sharing anything with anybody, so if you're not with him, you're against him,

and I know how that goes. And I'm saying, all right, then we're gonna be at odds and he's gonna spoil things by saying that I'm a government agent for the last eight years and he is never backed down from that, and for eight years. You know, I keep saying, a fine, prove it, prove it. You're saying this. You live in freaking Thailand. How do you know that I'm a government agent? What proof

do you have? What video? What audio? What email? And the only reason he said, I was there when we came up with I've got the email from Matt Boyland. They said, look, you're with us or

we are going to discredit you. I still got the email from twenty fifteen, and you know, and real quick, which there was a little thing that happened in the the Netflix documentary which most people missed, which was there was one hundred and something seats in the back of that that first conference that were empty and it's nonrefundable conference, right people paid, it was sold out. And what happened was Eric Debay convinced odd you know odd reality channel.

He convinced, He's like, tell your guys, whoever we think they're gonna go to the conference to not go because it's just government agents. It's all anyone on stage and its government agents. And I'll be damned if those people burned those hundreds at all, you know, each one of them, and they did not go wow, And it was just this little thing. And it's like, but it's the power of the power of media and the power of persuasion. It's like, all right, so Eric, I don't know,

I don't know how he does it. But Eric's channel, I mean, he's been burned down several times. It keeps coming back. Get I've I've I've never for me. I don't have a personal beef with the guy. I just don't like, you know, I told him, And come on, every producer has told me. It's like, you can't make a whole bunch of flatter videos and the make a video called Adolf Hitler's the greatest guy in the world. You can't do that. You can't mix the two.

There's it's never gonna go well. And then you act surprised. It's like, oh, why was my channel destroyed by YouTube? A gonna start up another one do the same thing, and he like today he's got like one hundred and ninety thousands ups like, al right, wow, you want to keep doing the same thing, That's fine, I'm just warning you the producers. He well, sorry, last thing. I'm on that point. He was supposed to be I'm sure he's been told this. He was supposed

to be in behind the curve. Absolutely was supposed to be in it, and not not because of me, because of the producers. Okay. And and once they I go, and I was the one that showed it to him, I'm going, well, and they they said, does anybody have skeletons in their closet? I go, well, you might as well know, you know. And I threw him the you know in all Hitler video and they and they said, is there any chance we can get him to pull that down on? Nope, not for this project. He's not.

And he didn't. And every producer since then, in fact, one of them said, look, you may want to call him and tell him and say, no, producer, you know when you go up the chain of producers, no, no, no project's going to work with you because of what you're doing with that. And I said, it's not going to do me any good. Tell him. He already knows. So anyway, there you go appreciate that I do have two more questions left. One is something that I was I get a lot of these emails that say my life was

wayward, I had turned from God. I was doing this, doing that, and it's incredible to see that people come across, whether it's the podcast or your channel. I get so many messages where Flat Earth completely changes people's lives to where they're brought back to God and there they're living their lives different. And that is the most powerful, humbling. When I open up those emails, I get teared up to think that I'm just some guy in Delaware

raises chickens, you know, put this podcast together. And and for me, that's why I had to do this podcast separately. I told you in the beginning. It was divisive on that, but it was such a passion to me that I had to do a separate podcast, and obviously that was God's plan for me. And now I'm doing this and we get emails all the time, and I can only imagine how many messages you get about how you've changed people's lives. Yeah, over the years, and it's not again,

it's not me. I did not change people's lives. I am not a part time cult leader, even though even though we have all the earmarks of it, which is really weird. I'm really surprised the media hasn't jumped on it because but I suppose because we don't have the flags that go with it, meaning we don't have a compound or a Bible or hobes or chanting. You know this, you know the conferences, and I'm really surprised more people haven't said that. However, to your point about religion, very very

true. Over the years, I have had so many people. In fact, I'll give you a quick story. Before the pandemic, we were doing Christian flat Earth conferences, right, and I wasn't even invited to speak at most of those because I didn't quote enough chapter in verse A right. Most of the conferences we go to. We knew we were doing something right when after the first conference, half of the people said it was too Christian. The other half said it wasn't Christian enough. It's like, okay, so

we we we apparently were right down the middle there. But there was this take on the world conference. They've done for a number of years before the pandemic, and I remember they're doing this this roundtable. Towards the end, and Rick Hummer relayed the story to me. The guy's m seeing the Las Vegas conference and he goes somebody. I don't know if it was Rob Scheba, Robbie Davidson or one of the other guys, but they all everyone was

in agreement. They go, we have never seen any device or tool that has brought more people back to the church than flat earthised. No single thing has been able to do this. And the reason is is it gives people that extra persue per single digit percentage points that reinforces their faith that they may have lost or fallen away from. So if you were ninety percent sure, you know ninety percent in the camp, it's like, yes, you know, you know I you know I believe in God or high power or whatever,

you know, whatever denomination. You're looking at this just by the default structure of it, meaning if we're in some sort of building, then it was built. It was created. Now you may not know exactly who the creator is exactly, or or or the reason behinding behind it, but it gets you one step closer. You know. The joking and the humor I would throw out at people that I would say, it's like, yeah,

you don't know, you don't know who exactly built it. It could be one of God, you know, could be God directly, it could be one of God's sub contractors. But the very least you're one st that you're one step closer to figuring out God's phone number. Right, You're one degree closer, And that was enough for most people. They're like beforehand, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm in now, you know, because it

remember I was telling about the how it shrunked down the universe. Yeah, if the universe gets shrunk down too, what's essentially a giant garden of Eden, right, I mean, it's just a big, big garden of Eden version. Let's face it, the world without people is actually a really nice place. People screw it up. Take people with the equation works pretty well, I mean as far as they know. Again not to steal that line from the matrix, but you know everything natural equilibrium is in there, except

when you throw people in and then it just turns into a nightmare. So yeah, I got tons of those emails along those lines where people we were so happy and they weren't thanking me so much as they were I mean they thanked me for the way I explained it, but that they were so happy that the concept was put out there, and I would try to remind them. And I think Rob Skiba did as well in his website, which I

highly recommend to people. If you're a Christian out there and you want to, you know, go to testing the Globe dot com, which is so wonderful. And I'm so glad it's still up and his wife is keeping it there after his untimely passing. Yeah, but he was the first guy to go through it back in twenty fifteen. He went through the Bible with a fine tooth comb. It's awesome. Wait, and he came back almost immediately

and said, yeah, it's a flat earth book. The Bible's a flat earth freaking book with one exception, which was he and he found it so fascinating. He said, Isaiah forty twenty two, He who sitteth upon the circle of the earth, he goes. But circle is not ball, it's not spear, it's not glow, and ancient Hebrew it is not the same word he goes, but he goes. I have talked to so many pastors that hang on to Isaiah twenty two by their fingernails, and like it has

veto power over everything else. It's like, really over Genesis. You know, you're gonna you're gonna use this over Genesis. It's like, yeah, one shouldn't have more weight than the other, but they do. And but it's mostly the fear. You know, most most pastors they're they're scared.

You know, they don't want to You don't want to come on, you don't want to sit up in front of a congregation of I don't know, two, three hundred and five hundred people, depending on what group you're looking at, and say, okay, so we're going back to the flat model because people mainstream has sunk their claws into so many of the people that they they're afraid of the backlash, kind of like you when you got those emails.

Yeah, so yeah, but I love I love the spirituality aspect of it again, the fact that that it turned me to where again, I will not do anything malicious to anybody else. Now that doesn't mean I won't defend myself, you know, Second Amendment, you know, gun controls using two hands. But uh, but at the same time, I'm not going to go out of my way to to I don't troll people. I don't even donew practical jokes on people. So I hate I hate practical jokes,

don't I don't like. Yeah, and you get those emails. It's and again it's the flatter It wasn't George that change these people's lives. It was them finding flat earth and them realizing that. Yeah, and they had to thank honestly, they had to thank somebody. So it's like they send me emails or whoever was. And I'm sure lots of other people, you know,

even the people that that don't quote religious stuff. I will say this though, I was one of the I was the first guy to delve into the religious side because the Christian community was writing me almost immediately as I was doing the clues, and they said, you are you are dancing around the God aspect of it too much. You've got you've got to address it. And at that point, I said, well, I was already in you know, on my list anyway, so I'm going to bump it up.

And I made a clue called they are hiding God absolutely, and uh it was. It got it was received extremely well, and I but I really I wanted to do it in a different way. So I did something kind of unique, and I was kind of hoping that that that somebody else would touch upon it. You know, I stretched the tower of Babbel's story into the way I would see it if I wrote it as like a screenplay. Gotcha, And and I thought it. I thought I worked pretty well.

So anyway, I'm glad. I was glad that people enjoyed it. Awesome. Thank you for that last and thank You've been very generous with your time. I really appreciate I'm good, appreciate you. The big question, well, you know why the lie is the big question. But you know we

we've everybody kind of knows that. But who do you believe the hidden hands or the controllers are the people at the very top of the food chain here on earth that are pulling all the strings that are responsible for what you've seen over the last three years and and for heliocentrism and everything that does hide god Oprah Winfrey correct, that's not true. Uh, good night, everybody, great show. Uh No, the you know that is that is a question

that I have I have posed for a number of years too. I've thrown back at people. I go. The great thing about true power if you know how to wield it is that the rules are very very simple, which is true. Power stays hidden, you cannot be And that's the line from Napoleon, which I thought was great, prettyquotable guy, now as quotable as Einstein, but still pretty quotable. He said that, uh, he goes,

they cannot he goes. Never put yourself in a position where you can be overthrown, all right, And that was the curse of what he had to live with. He was a military general, he was a dictator, and people knew who he was the person you want to be. The curse of being the puppet master is you can't also be in the limelight, so you can't run the puppets and also tell people you're running the puppets, because then you're also people. Again, people know who you are. They can't

get you if they can't see you. So kings and queens and presidents and people like that. Anybody can be overthrown if you know who they are. That's the whole point once because they're everyone's at that level of power is worried about the mob. There was an old quote and or a metaphor where they said the general population is like this giant, dimwitted, lumbering beast that you absolutely did not want to get its gaze on you. You know, you

want to give it somewhat contend, but do not. If you're gonna tack it off, make sure it's not going your way. And the only way to make sure is that they can't see you if you're invisible. So long way around to this to answering this question. That being said, people are all sorts of theories out there. If you ask the average conspiracy person to ask, you know, it's what's what's your top twenty in order of importance the groups out there that are controlling the world. You're never gonna get the

same twenty from people, and there's gonna be heated to arguments. It's like, okay, you know, is it the Rothchilds, the Builderbergs, the CFR, the tri Laterals, the Masons, the Vatican, the it just goes on and on and on. Right, there's also you know the skull and bones. I mean, which you want to do is you want to find the oldest group. The oldest group is probably one that's running at the most. I mean, people say, well, is the rothchilds Now the

roth Child's really got their big claim to power twelfth. Yeah, yeah, well after after Waterloo, absolutely they you know, which was a great scamp. Oh god, that was a great Indian, so freaking brilliant. But again that's that's fairly new money in the grands game, the thame. So when people talking about oh, Bill Kates and Jeff Beatles, and I'm going that money is so new, the ink is still drying, you know. By comparison, I go keep going back even further than that. I mean

the Mason's. Yeah, they've been around. The Mason's story goes actually all the way back to the Masons and the Vatican have been tied together for a very very long time. You want to look up stuff, look up the Signet of Solomon or you know, the Knights Templar, going all the way back. But don't forget that the Vatican was the one that ordered the Knights Templar to look for the Ring of Solomon's ring in the first place. By the way, the Ring of Power in the whole Lord of the Rings thing,

yeah not just a movie. He was based off of something. It's based off the freaking Solomon's Ring. If you want to look it up. Look at the signat of Solomon that the magic ring allowed him to control demons, blue demons on top of it. Brilliant. I mean, some some wonderful stories there. But going back you could probably again there's probably some rich and powerful families that are old Grope, but the Vatican has got to be

the oldest because it's the remnants of the Roman Empire. Those guys, right, the empire that ran for a thousand years, that ran for so long they forgot who they were. They're like, wait a minute, what was our initial missage? Right, take over the world? Right? Right? Are we still doing that? You know they didn't even know? And when would? They had run it for so long? For God's sex that the Roman short sword for military people out there, they used that for six hundred

years, never changed it. That's how good they were, and they were they were. They were humble enough to absorb anything which I loved about them, which was, you know, if they came upon you know, they're conquering an army, they came upon a catapult. There was a better design than theirs. Hey you know what, that's new Roman catapult. That's what we're using. Every other canapults they're using those they absorbed like the borg.

They just they were they were, they were really good. So if I had to pick a power structure at the very top, at least in men humans, I would pick the bad I can, you know, just because they you know, they probably still have this stuff from the Library of Alexandria, you know, the good stuff that I think they've probably got most of the resources, and they probably don't have to worry about money, you know, you know, when you get up at certain points, the money it's

just a number, you know. It's it's not a question of if you can buy something, it's if you can topple economies and change the world markets. Do I think there are other beings out there that have influence, Yes, But I'm cautious and saying who or why, because I think there's rules to this place. I want to drag I want to drag this out. But I'll tell a story really quick about the greatest UFOs sighting of all time. Was not Roswell, and it wasn't Aurora, Texas or anything like that.

It was fifteen sixty one Nuremberg, Germany. You can look it up the keep page on it, which was fifteen sixty one, two giant space arm modas just came into a beautiful April sky and hammered each other over Nuremberg, Germany for a straight hour. And then a third faction showed up at a giant, single black angular craft and chased them away and then went off on its own. And that raised so many questions. I mean, of course, there was no science fiction back then, so they had no context.

They thought it was a ruling, but and the in fact they drew it. I mean, yeah, there was no photography in sixty one, but an hour is plenty of time for any even the worst sketch artist, to sketch the whole thing while they while they're having toast and schnitzen, Globin goes this first thing in the mord. The question is, okay, who are these first two guys, right? Who and why were they fighting?

And who's again? Who's there was a power structure here, you know, obviously they weren't supposed to be fighting because the third group were they the cops? The big black craft? Were they the un Who the hell were they? And what was the response time? It took him an hour. I could shoot a gun outside this window. There's gonna be people here in under ten minutes for sure, And yet you've got you've got full blown flying aircraft

carriers just hammer each other for a full hour. So what I'm getting at is there seems to be rules to this place. Again, Do I think there are civilizations that are older than ourselves? Of course, I mean you don't have to watch ancient aliens to figure it out. I mean, but they did help. But just come on the Bossian Pyramids, the real pyramids, Puma Punku, Machu Picchu. So I can say he's off Japan, so I can say he's off of India. We are not the first group

to be here. Our unbroken history only goes back five thousand years. So I think there's probably a prime directive in place, which is whoever's whoever graduates from this you leave alone the surface group because they want whoever it is. The rules is you got act naturally, right, So if you want to pick off some guys in a rowboat or somebody in a forest or somebody in

a mountain, yeah, it's fine. You don't get to land in the middle of Indiana, right and you know, come out and start taking selfies. That's not going to happen because you can't. It's again prime directive. I know I'm stealing from Star Trek, but it's absolutely true. You don't want to you don't want to mess with that flow. So I don't think. Then again, people will say, well, you know, it could

be demons at the top. It's like, yeah, maybe maybe, but only be one or two and you're never going to figure out who they are. If they were talking anybody, they're probably talking to somebody in the Vatican maybe, which is sort of ironic, don't you think, Yeah, since they have a telescope named Lucifer, right, well yeah, or the fact

that it's the freaking Vatican. You know, if you have a bean, it could be why the reason why the Vatican came out not too long ago and said, oh, you know, we wouldn't have any problem with aliens and the whole alien concept. It's like, wow, it seems like an

odd thing to throw off, right, So do I think? But two things real quick before we go. Do I think that there will be some sort of alien agenda, introduction of a new you know, old civilization you're painted you know, Project Blue Beam or however you want to do it. Sure that seems like the logical step where we're going there. We're trying to escalate things. We're in an undeclared war with Russia. We have been for some time using Ukraine as a proxy. Could Russia is not going for it.

We're trying to kick in a big reset. Russia is playing the reluctant villain. Kudos to them for not falling for all the tricks that we're doing. But oh my god, it's getting ridiculous out there. But I also think that the one of the reasons what might happen. It's like, Okay, what do you expect? What's the goal here? You know what happens when so many people figure out about flat Earth. For me, it's not just the hundredth monkey effect, which I do believe and look it up if

you get a chance. You you know about the hundredth monkey effects. I don't recall it hundred real quick, which is an automatic update for a species. So the scientist, again, we didn't figure it out scientists. Scientists did where they were feeding potatoes to monkeys on the beach, and some monkeys were figuring out that if you wash the potatoes in the sand, you know, in the water, you can get the sand off at a taste a

little bit. You don't have to eat sand. What happened was about the hundredth monkey and people in sciences backbelly, so, oh, it's a myth. It's like you guys were the ones that figured it out. Don't tell me it's a myth. You just don't want to admit what it is, which was once again to about the hundredth monkey. All the monkeys knew it, meaning it's not like they were watching each other to learn it. They all it was a mass monkey update. In fact, it wasn't just an

update on that island. It was every monkey in the island's plural, all of them, even monkeys there were there were watering you know, kud and I absolutely we're disconnected from each other. All the monkeys now instinctively learned. It's like, oh, beneficial upgrade, totally see that. So is it possible that humans could run into that same situation where if enough people kind of figured out where this was, then with something like and I'll just throw out

a term, the Babel, I'll call it the Babel protocol. How's that? So with the Tower of Babel, right, it was like it kicked in immediately and afterwards like okay, so we need to put something in the later civilization or this ever, a threshold has to be put in to where if enough people figured out and start looking out, it's like, oh yeah,

I see what's going on here. If enough people you know, population figured out, then God has to step in or you know, God's subcontractors have to step in, or the caretakers or whoever, and say, okay, next we gotta well, we gotta rotate over to the next, the next group. Because I do think that it is kind of like a school senior class thing where we eventually the this this civilization has to graduate like anybody

else. And as with any graduating class, it's the line you don't have to go home, but you gotta get the hell out of here, everybody, because we had another class come. So it's like, Okay, you're gonna go subterraineing, or you're gonna go off to another continant, you're gonna go outside the dome or whatever it is. That's that's what I'm that's my ultimate goal. That's what I'm gunning for, because why not. It's like, God, We've taken this as far as we're gonna take it. We've

taken to the nth degree. There's nothing new here. So there you go, well done. Where can people find you? Are you? Are you doing shows on Tuesday night? Yeah? I just did one last last night. Yeah, so the reruns around my channel. I'm not going to give out all the social media stuff because I don't run most of it, so I don't even know what's out there. Okay, no worries, but but I no, no, it's it's fine. The two things I want to encourage. If you want to find my stuff, just go to the Just

type in flat Earth mark into any search engine. You will find me. You'll eventually find the rabbit holes. They'll get to me. I don't care how you get there. Eventually you'll get there. The other thing, which is you've got up on your screen if you haven't done it already, you know, because we David and his guys worked really really hard on as the flatterth sun Mon and Zodia clock app. He's done it amazingly well. Because it's visual, you know, it's people at picture is worth a thousand words

and I have used it myself. It's like people will say, well, what's it look like you know, I can describe an audio all day long. It's like it looks like this here, and I regret it. I did not have it for like the first year at the app out I felt bad. It's like, yeah, I'll get it, I'll get it, and then finally I got It's like, oh man, I should have always had this, so and and and last, last, but not least. If you guys are looking, you know, there's meetups. We do meetups

in different parts of the country and different countries all the time. But the big conference this year is gonna be in Las Vegas. So if you're curious, just type in flat Toberfest twenty twenty three or flatterth Conference Las Vegas, or I think the official website is what it is, just flatter Festivals dot com. There you go, Yeah, flatterth Festivals dot com. And so

you can check out. I'm I'm opening. David Whites will be there from the app I'm sure he's brought that up to you, Jarring from Jarinism, Dave Murphy and a whole bunch of other people wits. It's going to be there, maybe making some people cry. It'll be awesome and make sure yeah, there we go. Well, because he he debates people, and people people cry when they debate him. Yeah, so what so I was just gonna tell the folks from mind then we're I just had David on I think

ten days ago, and we're number nine on the referral list. So make sure you use f you are already number nine in like less than two weeks. Yeah. Wow, that's pretty good. So guys, fe files for the Fast. I don't get any referrals from from that because I always is announce it on my my podcast and I try to work it into interviews. So yeah, it's great. I have it, my wife has it. We gift it to people because you can't, like you said, you can't. Dev it's great, it's it's cool, it's a it's a cool visual

thing and people get it again. All you have to do is show them a single image. And the reason it's the challenge I'll put that. Let's end with this, the challenge I put out to trolls. The reason why we keep growing the way we do and we keep winning by attrition is because the model that you're looking at on the screen, you know, the like the app model right there, It's easier to explain exponentially easier to explain than the solar system model it is, and which I throw that of science.

I go, look on, with science, you need to know trigonometry, and you know calculus and quantum mechanics and strength theory and all that other crap. Right, you have to have a solar system and a galaxy around that in universe around that. It's massive. It's absolutely incomprehensible for most people. Right with this, that's all you need, just that little thing, that's just just a little little snow globe. That's all. People can get their

head around it really, really quickly. So I put it the challenge out to people in science. I go, until you create a version of the solar system which is easier to explain than ours, people are going to go with ours. That's right, because that people like easier stuff. They do, and they just because it's easy. It doesn't mean it's right. I go, No, it doesn't, but human nature means they're going to be drawn to it, So try and stop us. There you go, Well

done, Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure chatting with you and bouncing things off and actually being able to have a one on one conversation with somebody who has been such a part of this great awakening across the world. So thanks for everything you do. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. That's Mark Sargent. Everyone.

Thank you for listening to the flat Earth Files podcast. Want to join us on the podcast, Email us at the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Be sure to visit our website at the flat earth files dot com. Also be sure to check out the flat earth Files video channel on Rumble. The link will be in the show description. Are many thanks to ab Faithwear showcase your faith and share God's word through their scripture inspired faithwear. Check

it out at ab faithware dot com. The link is in the show description as well. Until the next time, my friends, keep your head on a swivel and until the next time we will see you. You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network Just the Facts Mount