Episode 88: Flat Earth Conversation with Tommy

The following presentation is Val margat Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's not for another edition of the flat earth Files. I hope this podcast finds everyone well. We have a great guest standing by and who will be joining us in just a moment before we pick a kickoff, excuse me today's podcast, just a reminder of two things please do. Stop by the flat earth files dot com again, that is the flat earth files

dot com. Check out the chat room, the forum, leave your speak pipe message, lots to do and interactions at the flat earth files dot com. If you would like to join the podcast like Tommy is today, you can send us an email at the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. And again that is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. And as we mentioned on the last podcast, our other podcast, the Fact Under, we're getting into nine to eleven seasons. We get very busy over there.

So we just ask for your patients and we will get to all of your emails just as soon as we can. We answer mall. Just bear with Again, that is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. So there you go. That's all the housekeeping for today. We are going to bring on our very special guest and his name is Tommy, and really sent quite a moving email, and I've been looking forward to this. I guess, my goodness, it's been I think it was the middle of May the first

time he reached out. So we are. That's how behind we are, folks. But as I say, we will get to you, and ladies and gentlemen, here we are with the one and only Tommy. Tommy, how are you doing today, buddy? I'm doing very well. George.

That's an awesome intro, and your voice is amazing for these podcasts, by the way, Oh, I appreciate it, and I'm doing my best to preserve because, like I was telling you before, we had the record button, we did a four hour podcast the other night on the other podcast, So I'm doing my best to preserve it. But it's really great to have you, and it's I really love having folks who are as honest as you are, because I think your tale, your story is very you know,

it's gonna align with a lot of other people. Being a young man in this world, you can be very difficult. You know, you turn eighteen and you're out on the street and you can't get credit unless you have credit and your insurance until you're twenty five is astronomical. So really, I've said many times before, being a young man in America can be very difficult, especially if you come from, like myself, very humble backgrounds, and you've

you've got a scrap for yourself. So you have a great story. So why don't we go ahead and kick it off and we'll start with you introducing yourself to the listeners. Sounds good. I'm Tommy, And before I get too deep into I just want people to know my intent of sharing this is to let people know that there's always hope and you can overcome anything. Any obstacle is able to be overcome with perseverance and mindset, and I think it's

important for people to understand that before listening to my story. Amen to that. So I grew up in on the South Side of Chicago, born in eighty eight and had a had a Catholic Catholic family, went to church every Sunday, did that whole thing. Went to Sunday school every Sunday before church. My parents were more more on the strict side. The youngest of three older brother older sister, separated by four years each and but my parents weren't

around all that frequently when I was growing up. They had to work, they had lives. So my best friend, since I knew since three years old, his parents were babysitters for me, and I was kind of raised by them, I'd like to say, and but we played sports. We love sports growing up. But from there, going into school and everything, it was it was one of those things where it's like your product of the environment, right, so not only the people places things, but the mindset

of the people especially. That's one of those things that I never really understood until very recently. But I'll fast forward to to high school. Started smoking smoking weed at age of thirteen, and just that's when like self esteem issues and you just never felt like you fit in. It was always one of those things that's you know a lot of kids, a lot of teenage probably relate to that, where they just feel like something is off, something is

wrong, something just doesn't feel right about school. Like I always sat in the back of the class. I always from the age of thirteen, I would just show up to class just stoned out of my mind, would ditch class, never applied myself in class whatsoever. Every teacher would tell my my Aaron, So he's got so much potential. That was always the famous thing, He's got so much potential. So I eventually I played sports. I

played high school volleyball and baseball, and that was great. But even then I was still like smoking weed in my car, miss and meetings and you know, just being being that that guy. And from there, like in high school, it went from like tabooze weed DXM, which is the active ingredient in cough medicine, if you could believe that or not, shrooms and just anything we could get our hands on was how it how it progressed. And so I barely graduated high school was like a two point two gpa something

atrocious. And the only college to accept me would be the University of South Dakota because they were recruiting people from bigger cities to diversify their school because they wanted they thought in their minds like they wanted people from bigger cities just to uh, you know, diversify their their their students. You know a lot of people were just from tiny, tiny, tiny towns, you know. So then I go out there. I had a fake idea at the time,

and again you're just product of the environment. Who's going to be attracted to somebody with a fake idea. It's people who are not not really with the growth orient and mindset right there. They're more trying to get escape their own lives. And so that led into going to bars at a young age and just again fitting in with the wrong crowd and and just not doing well.

But at the time, you're always thinking in the back of your head, like when you see somebody homeless or somebody really hurt, and you're always like, oh, I'll never be that guy. I'll never be that guy. Least I'm not that guy, or however you justified. It's always it's always it's always like that when you're when you're in the thick of it and an active using mode, you're always thinking, oh, I'm not as bad as that guy, because you need to justify your own actions, you know.

So from from there, I switched my major like four or five times, just I couldn't couldn't settle on on what I wanted to do. How do you decide at that age what you want to do for the rest of your life, right It's it's quite a conundrum there, And I worked all throughout college at UH for Polaris, the four Wheeling company or a TV and that that was good to show me work ethic and everything went well. I was just a party guy, just always always wanted to party, always getting

messed up in every which way. Then I settled on alcohol and drug counseling major, and in order for me to graduate, I had to do an internship at a treatment center. And even then it was somebody had to go out of their way to hook me up with that job. With that internship and uh, that went, that went really well, so well that I got offered a job at that treatment center in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, And so I was. I was amazing at that job for a while.

I was twenty two years old, really good at counselor leading a group of of folks who were all in jail at the time, and they would be furloughed out to come to group sessions Monday, Wednesday Friday from nine in noon. So they're in jail and they all they all had meth related charges.

So it was a meth group. And yeah, it was a really it was terrifying at first, but I was able to really do do well and I should rewind a little bit before before I graduated, I had gone to visit my hometown and all my friends we were hanging out at a buddy's house and they bust out, uh, this powder and they called it like hydromorphone or something something something like that, And I did did a line and it instantly made everything okay. It instantly made me not think about anything. It

instantly made me comfortable in my own skin. And then I come to find out my best friend at the time told me it was heroin, and I was because they had all been using it for months, I guess prior to that, and Misery left company. So yeah, I kind of got duped in a way into trying it in the first place. But I'm sure I

would have tried it anyway. So but yeah, in your head at the time, like Heroin's like the the the big, the biggest drug you don't want to do because growing up you're always told, you know, the DARE program and all that, you're told how bad it is and how dangerous, and it is it's very dangerous, it's very bad. But in my head,

I never thought I would use heroin. Like in my head, I was always like I just never touch it, you know, but I did it, and it instantly just changed the way it like changed the wiring of my brain almost and it was. And then from that point I would get packages in the mail from my group of buddies from in Chicago back out to South Dakota with in like birthday cards or whatever it was, packages with heroin in it, and to keep my habit, just to keep that high kind

of going because I didn't ever want to not feel like that again. You know, it was that powerful. Yeah, that's I'm just gonna interject for one second. And that's interesting because I mean, at the end of the day, we are all accountable for our actions. But at the same time, you did have a lot of folks at all, I don't know the word a lot, but you did have folks around you who were I guess

helping to enable you. Right, yeah, yeah, and that and that part, you're right, Like I take full responsibility, you know, it's full responsibility for all that. Like I made that decision to even snore of powder up my nose. You know that that's just bad on its own,

you know, but it Yeah, I take full responsibility for that. There's no no excuse but so when when I went to be a counselor and all that I had only a few months of clean time from heroin, I was still smoking weed, I was still drinking, I was still you know, doing whatever it was to escape reality. And but I told myself, because I'm not using heroin, I was able to justify being a counselor in my sick, healthy, sick mind. You know, at the time, I

was able to justify it. And I was. Actually I was a decent counselor. I was good. And I still get people message me to this day talking about how they're still sober and thanking me for what I did, and it's awesome. The problem is is so like a year and a half

goes by, everything's going good. I was able to stay away from from heroin during that time, and then my best friend had overdosed back in Chicago, and I wasn't able to make it to the funeral because I had a court date for one of my clients get being released from jail to see if he could get released from jail. So it's one of those things I couldn't couldn't make to the funeral, and that sucked. And then a few weeks after that, my grandma died, and that one I was able to make

it to the funeral. I go back home and it was so I remember so vividly. I I went home and before getting to my parents house, I went to the drug dealer. It was so automatic. I didn't even like consciously think about it was so automatic. Just I think environment the environmental factors like trigger our emotions and thoughts for certain actions. And so I go, I go to get the drugs. And then the very next day I

go to my grandma's funeral services and all that. And in the evening, I'm with one of my hometown buddies and he gets he gives me value, just just a few of them, and I didn't know what it was, you know, but I still, I still, I still put him in my pocket for later. And so we did a bunch of heroin that night. And I go go back to my parents house. I'm getting ready to get into bed, and I take two Value while being very messed up on heroin, and I then pass out in the same position, my back flat

with my knees bent for sixteen or seventeen hours straight. Just I guess my my brain just cut off signals to to move my body because I was so intoxicated, and when I woke up, I was so I was so so messed up and so jacked up from from the blood flow just kind of just stopped and all that blood just kind of stayed in the hip area and I would I woke up a pissing out like a black powdery substance. It was the most pain I've ever been in. I couldn't walk, I was I

couldn't see straight. It was it was very, very rough, and and still to at the time, I was still lying about it. Then to my parents and to to my brother who was at the house that day. They were asking what I took, what I took, and I said nothing. You know, I'm still sober. It says, like that's so horrible. But then make a long story short, there an ambulance eventually gets called

to my house, to my parents' house. They bring in the stretcher up the stairs, all that I get carried down and and just that ride from my parents' house to the hospital, Like you nobody knows what's going on yet, and you're just like you're you're you're just saying you're sorry to God. To who's ever listening in your head, You're just like, I can't believe this happened. I can't believe I did this. How could I ruin my vessel? And the whole time you know it's bad, but you don't know

how bad. And then you get I get to the hospital and my kidneys weren't failure, just just failure. I just did that much damage. My heart was all swollen, mild cardietist. I guess it would be considered now. It was. It was a pretty dire situation, to the point where they told my dad that I wouldn't survive the night to make funeral arrangements. That you know, it was bad. Everybody's parents were crying, it was

my brother was just bawling. It was. It was horrible. And so when they made me as comfortable as possible, so when I closed my eyes at night, I thought, no, there's no chance I'm gonna make it. And I didn't even want to make it. So then when I woke up the next morning, I was just I was I was pissed up.

I was mad because because I wanted the pain and suffering to just be over for my family, just to because all the pain inflicted upon them and what I knew I would have to do to change with such a monumental task that

I didn't think I had it in me. So when I woke up, I was just I was upset, I was mad, and and that's when the team of doctors came into the room and told me they'd have to amputate my right leg and even if I get through that, there's no chance i'd walk again, no chance i'd jump again, no chance I would like play

any sports ever again, no chance I would do any of that. So that just to the mindset that really is debilitating, and and you just the whole time you're just like you're being shot up to you're being injected with more opiates. And it was that was the first time I ever felt being injected with opiates, was at the hospital, and that again, that's uh, that was another life changing thing. So but from there anyway, my mom came right in between after the first day to see how I was doing.

That was first time she visited the room, and the first thing she asked was did anybody see the ambulance pick you up? Like, because in her mind, that's embarrassing, right, Like you don't want neighbors to know like and that, and so it's never been the same, like our relationships is never like because that, Yeah, so many things were said with one statement, right, yeah, it was. It was just incredible to me. But so then you just you have nothing but time to think when you're in

that iceeu just nothing but time to think. And the whole time, every couple hours in the middle of night, they're coming and they're checking your vitals and it's like the opposite of getting healthy in a way, because they're keeping you awake, just all these things, no natural light. The nutrition is horrible, But I'm very grateful for the nursing stuff, the ladies who helped

me out because you have a catheter and you can't you can't function. They're pumping you with so many IV fluids to just rehydrate your body, and you know, it's just very grateful. Some of those people are some of the most amazing souls that exists, you know. But from there, then physical therapy you start with just being able to try and close a fist with a

ball in your hand. You know, you're just starting very slowly. That's how messed up my motor functions were, and just I was so jacked up, and it was the fluids or of the point my skin where you could push down on my skin and it was like dropping a ball in a pond where it just ripples out. Yeah, it was. It was incredible.

And so from from being to that low point and just each day at a time, one just one one function more per day or one step further per day, you start with trying to just like sit upright, because when you're when you're bedridden for days at a time, when you sit upright, you're just did can't You don't know what's going on, You're you're you're just very

dejective. Your equilibriums off and from there, you know, you you then start to stand up do like a mini squad and from there they get the wheelchair out and from there it's then you could take like one step and then two steps. You have to relearn how to walk again as a as a twenty three year old guy. Like it's very it's very humbling experience and you're doing like, yeah, I say, I wanted to clarify two things.

You had mentioned that the doctors came in into your room that the next day after you made it through the night and said they may have to amputate your leg. But just to clarify to that, oh yes, sorry about that. Yeah, so when they come in tell me to amputate that my leg will have to get amputated. They they were the worst case scenario. It

was the worst case scenario. And they didn't have to do that because my everything went back to My levels were dropping all my uh because when rebdomylosis is this condition where when kidney's going to failure, they release all this uh toxins and electrolytes into the bloodstream and that creates all your your levels go sky high, and that's that's how a lot of people end up dying because your blood's

not supposed to have all that in there. And that was to the point where there was so much pressure in my hip from how I passed out that the muscle, uh my quad was so was deteriorating. It was like eating itself. Just it was becoming a liquid almost and dissolving. And uh that was that would have been the reason I would have had to shot my right leg off. But thankfully, Uh, the levels kept just dropping hour after hour, and uh, they didn't have to do that, right, It

Uh. It scared scared the hell out of me for sure. And the other thing was and while you were in the ICU, if I remember correctly that you said that they had you on Uh was it dia did or is that how it's pronounced deladed delouted it's called and uh yeah, So so I when you get there, they give you uh ivy for mad's right into the bloodstream. And that was the first time I've ever experience like opiates to the blood, and delotted is a very uh it's a very potent opiate. And

they were also giving me morphine. I had the button where you could just push it, and uh yeah, I mean I understand, like because because you're in so much pain, pain as it is, I understand they're just trying to keep you comfortable and just numb you out so they don't have to

deal with like you screaming or whatever. So so I understand from that perspective, But it's like you're they saw even though I was lying on my deathbed, like lying about not using I still they still saw the levels of my blood and all the drugs in my blood, So they knew I was lying about that and I was. They knew I was a junkie, you know.

So, but so it's a little a little concern in that just I'll give the junkie all these opiates, you know, But I mean the the situation was dire enough to deem it, you know, reasonable, I suppose, yeah, and go ahead. No, No, I was just gonna say, hey, yeah, I get it's one of those double edged swords.

They want to make you comfortable, but at the same time that what they're doing is kind of what got you in there in the first place, right, exactly exactly, And so when not the physical therapy, everything progresses decently, and I end up spending like twenty one days in the ICU total, and I leave in like a wheelchair with a walker, all this all this stuff because I could barely walk. I'm dragging my my hip. And the other thing I didn't mention is I was supposed to go back to my

counseling job that Monday, just for a weekend. I was going home for a funeral. I was supposed to come back on Monday. I didn't show back up to work, and and so I didn't. I had to tell my boss some ridiculous, absurd lie about I was just severely dehydra and it caused this rapdomylosis situation, and they bought it and sent me cards and flowers, and it was very, uh, it was amazing, very amazing to have that happen. And it just makes you're so emotional going through that that

any any little thing makes you cry during that situation. So it was awesome that people did that for me. But when I get out of the hospital and wheelchair, you're not the same person as when you went in, Like you're just different. And so when you get out, you have to do all the physical therapy and all that, but you're still not like, not

that mobile. And even when I got back back home, I had all these hundreds of morphine pills, hundreds of these delotted pills, and the first thing I do is is make it to the to the drug dealer because that's just it was just just that's how sick the my addiction was. It was very very powerful and just overtook like everything about me. It was very automatic

once again. And so the next few months, I I was just on a tear, just using NonStop. Now that I knew about injectables and how to inject and everything, and I felt that feeling it was it changed everything. It It's like a warm blanket on the cold winter's night, you know. And once you have that feeling, it it's hard to to adjust to life without it. I think it's how I put it. So the next

few months, I was just going to say. I hear people say all the time that marijuana sar unlistened, then I hear other people say it's a gateway drug. Listening to your story, it sounds like when when you find that next high, the previous one, like like I think you started, you said, with weed, and then after that you went to d x T or whatever it is. When you get that next yeah, I went

from weed to booze to all the other ones. Yeah. So is it a kind of a true statement once you hit that next hide, that the previous one just doesn't satisfy the hunger anymore. Yeah, I mean it's safe to say with me. I think I think what it's the root issue is wanting to escape reality because you feel something is so off with school or the

things you're being taught. You feel at that at the core level, but you can't articulate it at the time because you don't have the words you don't have the life experience to articulate any of that, so you're balding it up inside and it comes out and forms a drug use, you know. So I think kids will find any, any substance to escape with. But weed's just an easy one too, because it's so prevalent, you know. Sure, so yes, So when I get out of the hospital, everything's so

as messed up as ever ever been. I'm just on a tear, just doing anything I can for the substance. And then I have a intervention put on me and I go down into Florida for a bunch of months for treatment. And it's one of those Ponzi scheme things where it's just they're milking your insurance for everything it's worth and you don't know this at the time. You're just doing what you're told to do. And it was awesome living in Fort

Lauderdale. It was really great. It showed me that life is possible to it's possible to live life without substances, was the biggest thing I got from that. But the second I got out of treatment or rehab, I started using just crack, crack, shooting up crack. When I wasn't even a crackhead. You know, it's just the people I was around, and and I just wanted to just again fit in and back to the root cause that internal work I never did before then, and it always came back to haunt

me. But when I then, I got kicked out of the halfway house I was living in, and so the only option was to go back to my parents parents house. And I knew going back there would kill me. I knew for sure it would kill me, and I needed to not I didn't want to die like just because I knew it was a matter of time before I got bad batch or whatever. And so that's when I and Florida's

when I started planning to move out to Colorado. And so when I get back to Chicago, I started telling telling the people I'm getting out here. I gotta go. So I only lasted a few days and Chicago before I made it back or made it out to Colorado. And in Colorado changed changed the game for me. It changed my life in every possible way. I moved to Denver at first, and I had one I made it a month or two and then I had one relapse and that that's all it took for

me too. I was so sick and tired. I was so debilitated, I was so my leg was still jacked up, I could still barely walk. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired to the point where I just didn't want to get high anymore. And I just I didn't want to do it. And when I went to that detox in Denver is when I got prescribed something called suboxone. And what's that. Yeah, no,

I've heard of them, and clonopin and adder all those things. Yeah, yeah, I got prescribed suboxon, which is a medical assisted treatment, so you never have to go through withdrawals. And at the same time, you're on subox and you can't it's not possible to get high on opiate's like it blocks of the receptor, So even if you were to do a whole bunch of opiates, you wouldn't get the same effect. So in the short term, that's a really good thing for somebody like me. It's very good,

and it's it's saved saved my life in a lot of ways. So when I got out of detox, I moved then moved to Breckon Ridge, Colorado. I was big into snowboarding and it and just the outdoors and living up in such a beautiful, majestic place, the scenery up there, the mountains, the people, just such an amazing place in every possible way. And I then got prescribed also on top of the box and adderall klonopin and simbalta. And so two weeks after that is when when I moved to breck Breckon

Ridge, I met my wife and she didn't know about anything. She didn't know about this at the time, you know, because you're still like you're still masking all your emotions with all these substances. You don't know who you are as a person. When you start using drugs at such a young age, you have no you have no clue who you are. And yeah, so the next eight years go by and I get married during that time too, and you know, it's it was awesome. I lived in Breckinridge and

now living in four columns. Life. Life was good. I got into plumbing, it was, it was awesome. But the thing was is I just never did any internal worker. It was never serious about it because I would take advice from anybody willing to give it to me. Because I didn't know who I was because I was always zombified on these high powered meds, and and I used them as as a crutch, like I would take them during times like when I had to do anything, I would take a clonipin

for example. You know, so I'm still I was still just just a bad of a junkie, but not. But because I wasn't shooting up, docs would tell me, Oh, you're not shooting up. You're doing an amazing You're you're our best patient. You know, Oh you're three hundred pounds, You're not that. You know, like all these things, all these things you know, and you believe those lies, you believe the nonsense, and then the people around you were saying, oh, you're just big bone.

You know. It's it's crazy. But twenty twenty comes around and I had my first kid on the way, and I just I was so miserable. I was on I was a ticking time bomb on the wickest suicide like

it was. I was so miserable, and I just had to had to get honest with myself about like do I want to be the dead who raises their kid who can't doesn't have the energy to do anything because they're on all these meds and zombified, and they're just too obeast to do anything like I just I had to just get very serious about it, and and I just made that decision to start to wean myself off all those meds and slowly but surely, just a little piece at a time, taking it off and being

very calculated with it. And I cut off my doctor. I told my doctor, I wrote wrote them a letter talking about how miserable I was, and and to never contact me ever again because I don't want anything to do with these meds. So it wasn't an option for me to go back to them to get prescribed these meds. The thing was, over those years, I was able to have a rainy day fund, a stockpile of all those because I was overprescribed to such an extent. So I had years worth of

these meds, just just rainy day fund. And so that gave me the ability to cut my doc off and give myself zero options to go back while being able to wean myself down without being too miserable. So because I tried several times, like cold turkey and all these things, and it just it just was too it was too rough to function and you know, work and

all that stuff. So I was very calculate later about it. And when I when I week after week you go down doses drops, but you start to feel like a real human again, your energy levels come back, you start to feel alive again. It's a very eerie feeling. And because you haven't felt like I even felt like that since like fourteen years old, you know, just like being sober and just like normal. You just don't you

know, you're on substances or substance seeking behavior the whole time. We just don't, you know, you don't know what it feels like to just be clearheaded with clarity. And so it was a pretty amazing experience. And then when my son was born, this was like the height of cope. The It was like May twenty twenty, and yeah, it's May twenty twenty.

He's born. And I took COVID so seriously at first, where I would tell people in line behind me to get like walk a few steps backwards because that's that's the amount of fear I was in, Like, and I would wear gloves with the mail and stuff like just it was that ridiculous. I took it for those first few weeks or whatever. It was like, that's the extent I took it to ye and it's looking back, it's embarrassing,

but I admit I was wrong during those few weeks. But when my son was born is when when I saw I saw them do the hep hep B. I think that that vaccine. Like he's like an hour old and they're doing that to him and and he's just going nuts, and I'm just like and then I it's one of those things like you you'll always remember that and uh. And from there it slowly but surely, like you start to So I was coming off the meds and a Jim routine and I started eating right.

And nutrition is the biggest factor I think in a lot of this because previously I ate like crap. I would eat the most horrible foods for you, sure, And that's that's when I started to eat very well and start a gym routine, and things just started changing. When you're able to have a gym routine and sweat those toxins out like it makes such a big difference. Yeah, it's a big part of structure, and it really helps with your discipline. And I should, I should really if we can backpedal just

a second. I really something when I read your email and that it resonated with me and what I had to deal with because bro in the military, and then as you transition out into the VAU they give out these these drugs like candy. And when you say, and this is something that people shouldn't take lightly, you wrote that I spent the next eight years, eight years

of my prime like twenty in a zombified state. And that's when when I'm reading that and listen to you, and I'm kind of having flashbacks to just remember and being on those meds and how tired and exactly lethargic. You can't even Yeah, you can't even. You could barely move, let alone have the motivation to move to do anything productive. Yeah, and that is yeah, it's yeah. People don't understand because and a lot of times people get

prescribed this not knowing the full the other side of it. You know, they're just told by their doctor to take it. And because it's a human and a white lab coat in a costume party basically telling you to do something, people do it, you know, without doing any research. They just take these pills and then two years, three years, four years, later they're so messed up, not even thinking they're messed up. And that's uh,

that's a big problem. Yep. And another side effect, something I dealt with mildly, was started dyskinesia, which if you stay on some of these meds for too long, you'll get the lip smacking, the face movements, the eye blinkings when you're on these things that all to your your brain for so long. And again I'm not a doctor. I'm not telling anybody how to live their life. But I'm just telling you. I mean, you're here in Tommy and you're hearing myself to me these things that adder all.

Well, the klonopin for me was the big one. It's just another masking. For me, I realized, like yourself, I had to put that stuff aside and deal with my problems myself and to stop masking them. Yeah. Because our whole society we treat the symptoms. We treat all these symptoms, and addiction is another just symptom. Yeah, because you never treat the root cause it's going to show up as addiction or you know, all these other things. And until you deal with the root cause and do that

internal work necessary to overcome your demons. You're going to continue doing the same things, maybe different different drugs or different substances or whatever it is, but you're going to continue to deal with that that until you deal with yourself. Really, because when I was using, I would never be able to look at myself in the mirror. That I just would never be able to do it, you know, and that that was It's because you're you know,

you know, at your core, you're not a good person. You just know like you're not doing good things with your life, with your opportunities, and it just eats you, eats your soul over time. Well said.

So getting back to what you were saying, it sounded like watching your your child get and I remember too, you know, my my older ones seeing that that was that was your first real that was that was like this the start of when I started because I'm I'm beginning to come off these meds, like things are starting, the reality is starting to present itself, like with

clarity for the first time so long. But I like recorded that moment, and and then months and months ago by, and then it's the vaccine rollout and by this time, I'm I'm off all the meds and I can't believe how good I feel. I can't believe how motivated I am. I can't believe how my body's transformed. Just all these things are happening to my body, to my mind. My mind was transformed into went from comfort seeking and

escaping to discipline and strong and it was such a crazy transformation. And so when the vaccine rollout came in the very beginning, there wasn't a lot of information out. However, my wife went and got the first vaccine and I opt to just not too because I said I would. But I you know, I started to see patterns, but I couldn't articulate it at the time.

And but I was starting to see people online talking about the side effects in there their family members, especially from the first and second one they were injured, you know. And I'd paid the close attention to the theirs data, and uh, I didn't say anything to my wife like about I wasn't mad at my wife because I mean, the amount of propaganda come and add

us from every direction at that time. I don't think people understand how how the pure amount of it and majority of brainwashing or mind control is done through repetition. The more you hear something the more you're brain and mind thinks it's true. Pat, And so we've been kind of hacked in that way if you remember too, like just some of the slogans during that time, we're just so just on repeat, and all those news anchors saying the same same

thing, just city from city, east the city. It was intense. And then the second vaxx row outcomes, and I told I told my wife all through this, like, I told her all the information I was learning about because I took after that first vaccine that she got, I went deep into into all vaccines because it was just important because I didn't know. I always thought of anti vaxxers as I always thought of him as a like a weird like cult sort of thing, conspiracy theorist, right, yeah, yeah,

because I was told to think that. I think, you know, I don't know, and there's no basis for it whatsoever. But we're looking deeper and deeper into it. I realized, like, oh my, we're being experimented on, We're being we are being messed with, and and then sticking up for it is the problem defending the very system doing this to us. And a lot of people think, uh, you know, a lot

of the experimentation on humans ended in World War Two. But I think it's just it's it's just hidden in plain sight, now, you know, So the second backs for real outcomes. I told my wife all the information I was getting about all the different vaccines and all all this stuff, and then about the COVID JAB two and uh, and she I advised your like, please please don't get it, you know. But I wasn't like too stern.

I should have been, but I wasn't too stern. And I should ask what was it her job that that maybe they demanded it or is it just something that she felt she needed to do. No, her job didn't demand it. She she was just heavily influenced by like the Facebook community, I think, you know, like all the seeing all the other like all the other people. And because I'm her husband, she doesn't she didn't take what I was saying too seriously. You know, for whatever reason, people

would put on their bio on Facebook. I got my vaccine right on, say yeah, yeah, exactly. And I should have just put up more of a fight, but I didn't. And because I would print off all these papers and these essays about all these things, and she would never read. I'm like, you know, she was. She was convinced based on her belief in the system, right and uh. And so after that, that was when it was so obvious. People were dying, people were getting

injured. It became clear as day to me. And and then this is when this is a time when like it becomes kind of isolating because the propaganda was so deep. And when you're the guy not getting that vacs like people and people know that, they don't want to talk to you. They think you're you're the weirdo, and uh, it's very That's when it kind of

gets lonely, you know, for a period of time. And and that's when you you start trying to you convince yourself because you want to fit in again, like maybe I should just go get the vaccine, you know, but it's like no. So then time goes on and my wife we get pregnant again, and uh and like four or five months pregnant, and and

the third the booster, the good old booster shop. And during that period of time four months or whatever, I had started to look into other things too, because I was like, if they're lying about vaccines, what else are they lying about? You? Know because I was thinking with clarity, I was I was seeing reality for what it was for the first time instead

of what we're told to believe. And it was just the moon landing, Like looking into the moon landing, I mean it, it's it looks like a I just can't believe, you know, I can't believe I didn't see this earlier. You know, I didn't because I just didn't think about it. But the moon landing just so fake in every possible way. That Ellinger, those people are still alive. Just all all these things, they all add up nine to eleven building seven, like all these things, you know.

And and then it comes to a point where the information the truth when you see it for what it is, like lies are always so complex, and there's lies on top of lies on top of lies and just nonsense, and it's very hard to understand and resonate with a lie, right, But the truth it's typically it's always simple. It's always it always resonates you feel in your gut, you just you know, and uh, and that's that's such a big distinction, you know, big time yep, And uh,

it's uh, just conspiracy. After conspiracy, I started to realize, like we have been lied to to a point of it's all opposite, you know, And it's all opposite, Like everything every narrative that comes comes down is is a lie. You know. It got it gets to that point because all of the climate change the whole thing. It's more about getting you to obey and consume and be a worker not a thinker, and just be controlled. The more controlled you are, the better. The more money in the

system, the more enslave, the better. And through this little process of learning all that, I was able to forgive myself because that was the biggest hurdle in my story was I was never able to forgive myself because I was a drug counselor and I actually used with a few clients of mine. Is the other thing I forgot to say. Like so I used a few clients when I went back to to try and counsel. We just only lasted a

couple of weeks as I was in such a tear. So a drug counselor who abused his authority as a counselor and used with clients like that, that is a very hard thing to forgive yourself from. And I was never able

to do it. And the reason why this journey is so important for people addicts or people even enslaved any substance, because I don't think they can forgive themselves for whatever their past is because in a system, in a system that is lying to you the whole time, you can't forgive yourself based on a lie, right, But in this journey of truth, it's we're all kind of victims to a lot of This is what I realized, and it was

not our choice. It's just we're born into this. And that's how I was able to forgive myself and maintain sobriety for this long because it's prior to that I would keep doing the same thing, expecting different outcome. And I was thinking, oh, one day and opportunity just present itself and everything will change. It's like, no, you have to work on yourself and get better, get healthy, forgive yourself or being a road to forgiving yourself for

whatever it is you did, and that's when opportunities will present themselves. That's when big changes will happen. And that's what I realized through this journey. So, but this was right around the third This big enlightening moment was around the third VAX and that's also when I started looking into flat Earth, and I was just I was blown. I couldn't even sleep for the first three or four days, like looking I was just baffled, just absolutely baffled by

it. Because again, we're told to make fun of flat Earthers, right, We're told that their dumbest people ever. And it just changed, it changed the way. It changed the way I look at the sky. Even now, I look at the Sun and it's it's just it's the same size of the moon. Like it's just it all makes it, It all makes sense, it all fits. The moon definitely isn't two hundred and thirty seven thousand miles away or whatever. All those ridiculous numbers. It's just so so

fake. And that yeah, it's a big reason all all this stuff. It's a big reason why I was able to stay sober this whole time. But the third Vacts, I've really put up a fight with my wife and she still she like pushed me out of the way and went and got the Vacts while pregnant, with four months pregnant. That one, that one still sings to this day. But I view her as a victim, like I really do, like of this brainwashing stuff, you know, and you know

that that's that's kind of where we are today. It's been an absolute journey and I wish none of this on anybody ever, you know, I hope people can make better decisions than I did. Yeah, I'll tell you one of the most important things that you mentioned over the last hour is that before you can really begin your journey, you have to be able to forgive yourself, because there's not one person on the face of the earth that is that is perfect, and we all make mistakes. And I've said many many times

to be a young man in this world is very, very difficult. Sometimes I cringe at the thoughts of the things that I did when I was, you know, in my late teens and early twenties. We all make mistakes, but as we get older, in order for us to move forward, we really have to take the time and forgive ourselves. And until you're able to do that, you're really going to struggle. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think just a have some compassion for yourself because you've been through

a lot. If you're over the age of twenty nowadays, like you've been through a lot. We're all damaged after you know, something twenty years old or whatever, it's like, have some compassion for yourself and be able to forgive yourself is such a crucial thing. And even as when I was a counselor, I never I never thought of that, like I always over I always overthought everything like that. It was it was going to be much much

more complex to to overcome any addiction. And but but if you could just forgive yourself for whatever it is you've done and have some compassion, because we're all in this system of mind control of MK alter all this stuff coming as twenty four seven now, subliminal messaging and all this chaos. If you're able to have a level of compassion so you could forgive yourself for whatever you've done, you will be so much further and get so so much more benefit than

if you don't. And going back to just you your journey, I mean, how important is it to understand the company you keep? Well? Where we are products of the environment. You know we are, And that's as simple as it gets. Like people places things and the mindset of those people you know, like we and it's monkey see monkey, do you know? That's why it's so important to control the information you're in taking too as part

of that environment. You know. Yeah, it's interesting because when you said, when you get back to Chicago for your grandmother's funeral, you your first reaction was to go to the drug dealer, and that is it was automatical like it. I didn't even like it was. It was it's like when you're just driving on the highway, You're you're thinking about stuff, kind of

paying attention, kind of not to the road, like highway hypnosis. It was kind of like that, you know, where you're just like just automatically. It was so odd. And and the other thing I want to mention is like the other thing is I grew up like Catholic, right, and you're taught like it's it's anytime you do any wrong, you're punished and you're a sinner and all these things. It's very it's a very punishing way to think and to believe. And I'm not religious anymore because I understand, well,

it's never really my choice to begin with. But I'm not religious because I feel like religion puts you in a box and anytime you're thinking outside that box, you're an outcast, You're you're frowned upon. But I am very spiritual, you know, and that that's another massive difference in my life.

I'm very spiritual because I know that there is a God, and I know everything in nature is just in synchronicity, and there's just so many, so many things in nature that if we just look outside, we could see how majestic it really is, and that we nothing doesn't create nothing out of the big bang, Like what a bunch of nonsense. Dinosaurs never existed, you know, all these things you just understand. So yeah, flat like all

the vaccines is what led me into this. But the outcome of that is like it's real life, you know, it's reality, and that's that's something no amount of money I would ever trade for what I've learned in the past three years, you know. Yeah, And once again I said COVID was a blessing in disguise because it did wake up so many people and and maybe you wouldn't be awake today if that whole thing didn't happen. Now, you said, your wife, is everybody healthy, everybody's good with Yeah, yeah,

everybody's healthy. I hope she got one of those uh yeah, plus see bows because she's bringing with our third right now. So I you know, hopefully everything goes well. It's just it's always in the back of my head, you know, like it's always in the back of my head,

all these things, you know. But I just I think awareness is important and and just like you always say, like, because my my biggest thing was I would always bombard my wife with all this information because I didn't It's not like you have a somebody to talk to about any of this sometimes, so it's late at night, it's early morning or whatever, you're just my

barding your spouse or partner with all this information. They're just like, dude, I want to change my baby's diper right now or whatever it is, and you're talking about the moon landing or whatever it is. They're just I think you're crazy. So it's it's very interesting too because when I was on the meds, they made me. The other thing is they made me so compliant. So I just followed along because I was so I was a zombie. I just did what I was told because I didn't know any other way,

and it made me very compliant. It made me believe the propaganda to a degree. And I feel like that's a large problem with so many people buying into a lot of this nonsense. Is they're on all these mind altering chemicals and it's really you know, it's really heaven and effect. You know, Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head with the klonic pin and the simbalta. Those things they make you docile, and yeah, they

do, they really do. And and the I never realized this, but coming off the antidepressant Symbalta was so much more difficult than I ever thought it would be because I always thought that would be the easiest one out of those meds. Now it was so crazy. It lasted so long. And the brains apps like you get all these like weird electrical brains apps that come to

you, and it's it's stabilitating at times. And that's that's one I never thought would pack a powerful withdrawal punch, but it beat me up pretty good. So you said you started investigating vaccines and everything, and you began digging into terrain theory. Was there any books or videos or people that you followed that really resonated with you and helped you with your breaking awakening to that. Yeah, there's a few podcasts that Terrain theory is the name of a podcast

actually that I found pretty recently. That's that's a great one. It's called terrain theory. Yeah, and uh, which other one, Sam Tripoli? Uh tinfoil is a good one. I saw a video of Andrew Kaufman, uh, the doctor who really puts the terrain theory in simple terms and to help people understand. He's very clear and if you just look up Andrew Kaufman. I believe he's responsible for a movie called Terrain Terrain, it's just called

that's a great movie. But if you just think about terrain theory, like, there's so many things in our environment that we just don't even think about, like radiation or just all these the things, the stuff in our food, the g life of state and the food, the flooride and the water. Well that was the other thing I went deep on was the floor ide. Yeah, It's incredible how we just brainwashed to think that flooride is good

for you like that. That is a level of brainwashing, you know, Or that g life of state isn't a toxin, you know, or they're not doing chem trails you know, like all these things. It's like we're taught from a young age and not trust our senses, you know, to not trust our own eyes, you know. And it's it's very sad because I think that's what's making people sick is what they are eating and what they're consuming, more than any magical virus or big scary virus, you know,

because that's just a level of control. Yeah, to really understand the power of propaganda, I was blown away in my I think within the first year of the other podcast. I went down the floor rabbit hole and I learned about Edward Burney's and how this guy ALCOA out of I think Oregon at the time, and they had all this excess waste of a you know, fluoride from aluminum, and it was a waste of it and they were having to spend so much money on getting disposing of the waste. And as the elites

do that, they made it into something that's good for us. And what people don't know is that fluoride is in rat poison legitimately. Don't believe me. Look it up for yourselves, guys. It's literally in rat poison. Then people will argue with you that, oh that's goodness, just such small amounts. I'm like, come on, man, yeah, people, it's like anything you're taught at a young age, those ideas or thoughts stick with

you like the part of your identity. So when somebody challenges them, challenges them, you fight to the death almost And that's that's the thing, because that's the power of like the whole globe thing too. That's why they put it globes in every classroom because they get to you young, you know. So for you, you had to go through all of these different the moon landing through vaccines for you to Yeah, I went through quite a bit of

them before I even before I even entertained flat Earth. Like I didn't even I just saw we've been spending going nowhere, and like I didn't even think about it because I was so enthralled with my own nonsense, you know. But I mean, it's just And the one video to really do it for me was that go Fast video that rocket where just boom, it hits that the firmament just just it doesn't explode or nothing, It just like drops, you know, And that sound it made is so distinct, you know that

video. Yeah, it just hits the thud that just stops and it's it's just a thud, and it's so Yeah, that is such a such a powerful video and it's just all these things. And then I have one of those infrared thermometers that shoots the little laser pointer to take the temperature. Yes, and just doing that with a full moon, you know, just messing around that one night I did it where it's like the moonlight and moon shade and how there's no way that's reflecting the sun. That's the biggest bunch of

nonsense ever. And the moonlight being colder than the moon shade. Yeah, that's what when I trotted, it was three or four degree difference. Oh yeah, yeah, easily, Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, mine was four. And it's like that if that's the sun being reflected, that that that right, there should be enough for people to just speak in the journey, you know, yeah, I said on the interview I did.

I said, uh, that challenge everybody to go outside, get a rock, shine a light on it, and show me a reflection that can be seen from X amount of miles away. Oh there you go. Yeah, there's no way, that's just a rock, dusty rock in space. You know, there's just no way, you know, no possibility whatsoever. And and I have one of those DJI drones you know. So I'm always messing with it with like sunsets and sunrises, and it's so just obvious,

like we live on a flat plane. It's just so like once you're exposed, you can't be on exposed, you know. So it's just so obvious. And then being from Chicago, like I have been to that beach where you could see fifty three miles to the Chicago skyline like that, that that is so right in our faces. And people still will defend the globe even after seeing stuff like that. It's crazy. How did you come across flatter? What was the very first thing? Because oh it was the very first

thing. Was the was it hibbler? I'm not sure the level documentary? It was that, and I just I saw it. I don't know what sight I was on. I saw it and I thought it was a good idea. Get to watch it with my wife and we made it thirteen minutes into it before she was just like she was like making fun of him, like laughing, when I was like, hey, just give him a chance, because at the time I hadn't been deep down. I've only been into

other conspiracies and and I was like, just give him a chance. Just open your mind a little bit, and she just she couldn't watch it like she it was it was crazy. And and then after watching that, I was like, wow, Wow, I can't believe how dumb I was this whole time. I can't believe. I can't believe the people in my life, the adults in my life, just like grandparents, everybody didn't catch on to this, you know, didn't didn't inform me about any of this,

you know. But it makes sense because propaganda is so deep and so thick from such a young age. Yeah, and everything is so cleverly crafted. During the fifties that they took the German Foo fighters a lot of the captured things that they have, they brought them to America, they crashed them, and they started reporting them as you know space alien spacecraft crashes. And then of course your TVs in the movies in the fifties and sixties with the Star

Treks and everything else. I say it all the time, we pay for our own indoctrination. It's it's crazy, it's so true. It's so true. Like a television is a documented military weapon used to brainwash and a modified behavior that's a documented military weapon. Yet we walk around with phone screens, TV's in our pocket, not thinking anything of it. And the reason advertising it works is because no one thinks it will work on them. It's kind of the same thing, right, Oh, like you know, we say

we can watch it, it won't bother us. And I'm looking through my because I interviewed somebody the other night and he had mentioned I think his name was doctor Articus Luce, who actually has a patent on the lights on TV and he didn't even have one in his house. It's a really crazy story how just the lights alone can manipulate the way you think, not even the program that's on, but the way the lighting on the TV works. Oh yeah, yeah, these LEDs, all these things. There's a book called

Health and Light by doctor John Ott. It was written in the seventies. I want to say. He spent a long time in the business world and then I got out of it to do photography and he goes deep diving into environmental factors and artificial lights. And I cannot recommend that book enough to get into this topic because like fluorescent lights, for example, in schools and government buildings and gyms and all this, those are responsible probably for the ADHD.

You see everywhere, because how do you focus in something you're not supposed to be, Like, our eyes are not supposed to see that spectrum, you know, and so it damages our eyes, you know, and causes focus is just causes uh, being lethargic, being tired, being brain fogged up, you know. And it's just like all these factors, and then then they're going to take away the incandescent bulbs, which are the only kind of light bulb that that doesn't have a harmful impact on us. And it's just

like things like that just are clearly ways to weaken us. And when we're weak, we're easily controlled, easily manipulated. And so the more weak we are as a society, the more we're going to be controlled and enslaved. And it's like, you know, the last thing these over overlords want are population of united, powerful, healthy, independent leaders, right, That's right now, that's the last thing. So it's it's like anything they could do

to weaken the population, they're going to do. And it's dividing conquer and history has always been peasants versus elite, you know, it's just disguise better nowadays. Yeah, Yeah, and that's why they push this Uh, this gay trans agenda, take this puberty blocker, take this. You know that they want they don't want men that they don't want. That's why they don't. That's why they created the word toxic masculinity. Think about that, Yeah,

think about that. It's just and it's all just inverse of reality, just all all this stuff like it's it's all And even in nineteen oh four, I think it was, there was a car that was powered on water that could go four hundred miles seventy five miles per hour, and it's like all that, all that technology, old world technology is just hidden from us, so we'd buy into this big oil plastic, big plastic bullshit everywhere.

So, uh, it contributes to the system. It's money into the system, because if you're able to get free energy, then there's no need for government. There's no need for any government ever there. It's just government is just such a it's such a scam, honestly. Yeah, And that is very much an important part of the matrix though that that's another bill that they need you to keep working, to keep paying so you don't sit down and

think about and talk about what we're doing today. By the way, that was Stanley Meyer and his water fuel cell and he was killed as well. In nineteen ninety eight, I think he was met with some guys from Brussels, from Belgium. They were supposed to be investors, and they poisoned his cranberry juice and he died in the park and letting his arms of his brother.

That's how that's something. Yeah, that's they have no problem. And the guy who was the security guard at the top shooting in Buffalo, he was a retired police officer who would also come up with a water fuel cell

and they killed him. Just it's it's unbelievable what I think Victor Victor schell Burger was his name, who came up with like electro culture where you put you put a rod into your plants outside and you wrap around copper wire around it and it harnesses the free energy, the ether, and that makes your plants grow so much more. Do you have you heard about this? Say that one more time? Have you heard about electro culture? Electro Are you talking about the in the garden? Yes, yes, yes, sir,

yes, sir, oh okay okay. I wasn't sure because that that's that introduces you to like Victor Schallberger and how he came up with in a similar story, how he flew over to the States to tell our government about that and then he winds up dead very shortly after. It's like all all these things, you know, uh, you know, it's interesting. We we actually have listeners who put who puts antennas in the ground in their gardens.

Oh, that's what I do. Yeah, that's what I got. Blueberries I got, yeah, all sorts of strawberries, blackberries, and they just go nuts. You know, it clearly does something like clearly benefits you know, Victor Schallberger. Yeah, Victor Schallberger. And there's a very good uh channel on YouTube called Cultivate Elevate, and that's, uh, that's how you'll get a lot of a lot of electro cultures information. I'm gonna pull that up. What was that called again so I can put it on Cultivate Elevate.

Cultivate elevate. That sounds familiar culture. Yeah, Matt wrote Rowski or I can't pronounce his last name, but it's Matt row Rowski or something. Oh. Well, I'm not subscribed, that is, he's got about close to fifty thousand. Yeah, subs very interesting. Yeah, and yeah, he's uh yeah, his story is incredible too. It's just all all these people. I feel feel like, when you get to like a certain age, you have enough life experience to understand what's a scam and what's not,

you know. And it's just really because I always picture like, what would this world look like if if truth was always presented to us, like by the there wouldn't be a government, right, there wouldn't be a need for government to you know, just all these things. We would be more community based, would be more connected to people in real life. But I don't know, you know, I don't know how to bridge that gap, you

know. You know, it's interesting these psychopaths they think in their mind that they're actually doing good for us. They think that the wars and everything is you know, helpful to air quotes here. I don't use this term, but mother Earth and you know, creating this welfare society, you know, helping out the people. It's I say this all the time. There's a

lot of people who I'm not sure they could handle pure freedom. People would struggle if they got zapped back to the to the sixteen hundreds and having to work. I lived in a very austere environment from two thousand and three to two thousand and four in the middle of the desert with nothing, so you

worked. Everything was done for a reason, being smart about your water resources, conserving food, and everything we do here on the homestead is is you know, the energy we put into is to produce and preserve food for the future. And I was telling I was a guest on somebody's podcast last week, and I say, you know, when you see these YouTube channels that are based on homesteading, you mostly only see the sexy side of it,

right. You see the chickens running around and all the cool stuff. But what you don't see is getting up at five thirty seven days a week, Right, I haven't slept in in two years, And you don't see the miserable part of it. Yeah, yeah, and losing a chicken and think because they become family. There's a lot of rough side to it. But at the end of the day, if you do want true freedom, it

takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, definitely. And I think the other part of it is is if we could have that old world technology whatever they were harnessed into, how they built those cathedrals, and all these immaculate places that can never be built today. If we gets happened too, that without all this big oil and big just plastic nonsense, I think, and live in truth and harmony. I think that would be amazing, you know. But you know that's first we got to find out what they're

harnessed into, you know, and and go from there. But I think there's the other thing is like Mount Have you ever been to Mount Rushmore? I have not. No, I have not. Oh you haven't. Well even there, like you get there and it's just like the tones of the rock, the color tones, it's so different than the natural mountain right, Like it's just it's just different tone. It's like it's concrete. It's like it's cement. And it kind of makes sense because you look back at some

of those pictures. It's like that was probably a Hollywood thing too, you know, and then they put up fancy plaques and all this. Yeah, and it's it's like it just becomes all these things just become obvious because like you they did. They didn't just do that with hammer, chisel and dynamite, like you didn't just you know, come on now, it is Yeah, it's just crazy, you know. And then and then people will travel all across the country to go visit this place, and these overlords just laughing,

you know. Yeah, I picture him just at a big table, just laughing their ass off, you know. Yeah. And for me, once I hit flat Earth, it really took flat Earth for me to understand that everything was a lie. Like I was always going down rabbit holes and

I'd have to think, I wonder. But then once you you hit flat Earth, and then you understand like the most basic thing that you were taught as a child in the crib, right that they tell you Santa Claus, there's a guy who lives in the North Pole who who gives you gifts and the world is round. And then you know, seven or eight years later they tell you one is a lie, but the other one is yeah.

Yeah, just that alone, I mean, that is so messed up to do to a child when you think about it, because you're teaching them it's we're gonna lie to you, but it's not okay for you to lie. Like what is that? You know, Like the whole Santa Claus thing is such a ridiculous thing to to, you know, I still talk have the base with my wife currently where it's like I personally would rather not do it,

she would, and you know, we'll come with a compromise. But I feel like it's unfair to a innocent child to do that to him, you know, Yeah, for sure. And it is something that we all struggle with because it goes back to traditionalism and the feelings we had as a child and coming down the steps and seeing the gifts. And I think that's one way I always use the term controllers, how they use our emotions against

us. Yeah, yeah, And I think I think this goes back like hundreds of years honestly, just with this overlord class and their ability to like hack into our minds per se, like with various techniques like technology is a little different, but it's still the same same concept, and that is, if you control, could divide and conquer and control the thoughts and the the ideas of the population, you'll control everything. And that's what they've been able

to do so effectively up until this point one hundred percent. One question I did want to ask you was have you had any luck sharing this knowledge, whether it be flat earth terrain theory, vaccines, have you had a need luck sharing it with other people. Oh, I've shared it with other people.

I've definitely shared it with many other people. But that that was the other thing I wanted to get into, is you share this with people and then you're you're the weirdo because of the level of mind control and brainwashing and propaganda that you're you're you're over having to overcome, like you're having to overcome decades of brainwashing with a few statements about a few conspiracy theories to these folks, you know, and I used to So when you're going down these rabbit

holes, you're trying to share it with people because you want to see what they think and see if they know anything about this stuff. But the problem is that becomes very isolating and very very lonely in its own way, because you realize, wow, everybody around me is brainwashing. Everybody around me is

under some kind of spell. Everybody around me is like, is I don't know if everybody around me is just to a brainwash to a level where I don't even know if I want to share it with them anymore, you know, And then you become like the outcast in itself, you know, So, yeah, I don't do it anymore, But there wasn't Now I do it online like on Reddit and Facebook and all these things, you know,

right, Yeah, it's that. That is something I think all of us have a challenge with is what we do as we become more hit to the lies and realize that, you know, this is a huge psychological operation and this is a prison planet where they want you to believe where your vote makes a difference and these type of things, and people are uh, you know,

right against left, and they divide us with every possible thing. Everything is to choose this side or that side everything exactly, and that is to keep us arguing against each other instead of realizing that the people at the top of the problem. Yeah, yeah, it's uh. And I wonder because we need humans need like a need to follow in a way like we need

an authority figure. So if you take out this whole overload classes, just be somebody else to step up. But I mean there the problem is is like people are dying because of the level of propaganda, Like people are dying at a clip never before seen in history. And and to just sit back and not do anything is you can't you know, you gotta do something.

You know, I couldn't agree more and I think anybody who has the knowledge we do have to do our best to share it, whether like you said, on a Reddit or on Facebook, or you know, if you're like

something that I'm working on. Eventually I'll get it done, folks. I promise where you can purnt out cards or or leaflets and leave them in places away if you go to the mall, to a restaurant and you know, somebody comes by and picks it up, and maybe just maybe they look at the website and they watch a two minute video when it changes their life. Because when they say knowledge is power, that might be the greatest understatement of

the century. It really could, because it's honestly, the difference between me me being like my old self and actively using drugs and chemicals to me being here today, Like it's that big of a game changer. This information is so powerful in that way where once once you see it and you realize like you do have a purpose, you do have a reason to live. You're not just some random being spinning in outer space with all these massive, massive

planets and an infinite amount of galaxies. Once you come to realize like there is a god, there is a creator, you are here for a reason

you this place was designed. We live in under a Dahm er fermament, like all these things, like once you realize it's so powerful where there's no need to do drugs, there's no you don't no desire to do drugs in that world of truth, Like there's no no way you want to use drugs because you realize we are so there's only one of you here, there's only one of you, and when you whenever I encounter anybody, I really cherish the moment like that we ran into each other, whatever it is, because

that's such a special moment in time and we're very unique. And just the ability to be yourself there's such an amazing, amazing opportunity, and I think we just take it for granted, you know, especially when you're on substances. Yeah, you nailed that perfectly. And we are coming up on our ninety minutes and it's been just a tremendous learning experience and you've been very honest, and I know that's that's why it's so important when I love to have

people on who share their journey, because there's always somewhere you know. This podcast has listened to literally around our geocentric plane. And I always get replies from every single person I've ever had that it resonates with them, So I'm sure your message is going to resonate with so many people. And as you mentioned, I want to read the last two sentences you wrote, fifth generation

warfare is real and it's happening. We're being attacked on all fronts while arguing about the attack, and then you close with I've been clean and sober for three years now and it's changed everything about me, change as possible, and if I can do it, anyone can. And that's very powerful stuff. And you've been very humble and honest with your story. And I want to give you the stage here for the last couple of minutes to close with anything

you'd like to say. Yeah, I just I just want to tell people to have hope, even when the cards are stacked against you, even when you think there's no way out of whatever mess you've created for yourself. Just

understand you do have the power. Your one decision away from changing your entire life, and this information and the journey to the truth can get you there, and the ability to forgive yourself and have compassion because we are products of this environment, and this environment is so crazy with the propaganda and everything coming out of twenty four seven, that have some compassion for yourself and if you're

enslaved to even to any substance, like just know there is hope. And I was the worst of the worst, and I was a drug counselor that used with clients, Like doesn't get much worse than that. And if I'm still here, still alive, still trying to spread the message like you could do it too, Like anything is possible. Our minds are the most powerful entity in this universe. Honestly, that's they're so powerful. We have no

idea the power of our minds. And yeah, just be the change you want to see in the world is the other thing, you know, perfectly perfectly said and a great way to close this fantastic podcast. I want to thank Tommy again for reaching out and coming on. And please make sure, folks you check the show description. There'll be a lot of links in there and a message from Tommy as well. His email address will be in there so you can reach out to him. And I guess that's it for this

episode. It's been a wonderful one and very eye opening and you know if it's such a powerful statement that you know, many of us have been through so much in our lives, but if you just stay the course, you know, things will look up for you and and it's amazing. I guess the other thing I should say is is what we can see with a clear mind, and we're able to see through the lies that this world perpetuates upon us. So again, thank you Tommy so much for joining us on this

podcast. Thank you to all the listeners for all your continued support. We greatly appreciate it. Don't forget to check the website, the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Excuse me, the website is the flat earth files dot com and reach out via email like Tommy did to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. For Tommy, I'm George. Thank you guys so much for your continued support. God bless you all and keep your head on a swivel until the next time we see you. We will see you.