The following presentation isnt al marg Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files. I hope this podcast finds you well. And we have a great guest standing by. His name is Mark, and we're going to bring them on in just a moment. But before we do that, just two reminders. First and foremost, please stop by the website, the flat earth Files dot com.
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It is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. That is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. And as always, of those links to the website and the email you can always find in the show description. That is the housekeeping for today. Let's get right to our guest and please help me. Welcome Mark, Mark. How are you doing today, sir, own really well, Thank you Georgia, and thanks for stopping by. Why
don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. Sure, Yeah, my name is Mark, living in Tennessee presently with my family, born and raised in La not Louisiana, Los Angeles, and yeah, I had fairly i'll say, fairly typical childhood. My parents, particularly my dad, is
from He came from Bosnia, so he's an immigrant. My mother's parents and her family came in the early twentieth century, so being raised as a somewhat I'd say I kind of felt like a foreigner a little sometimes growing up in my neighborhood because we were surrounded by a huge, large, large Croatian Roman Catholic family and a lot of weekends, I would say, just about every weekend and was some function, whether it was a baptism, funeral, wedding,
communion, confirmation, there's always something. So I actually didn't have a ton of extra curricular activity with friends on the street and stuff on the weekend. So in a way I kind of felt a little bit on the outside until probably about high school. But like I said, born and raised in that the Catholic family. I wasn't saved until late in two thousand and eight, and so I Catholicism and being brought up in a large family like I
was had had a huge impact on me. And a lot of those things haven't really I haven't really recognized a lot of them until recently, you know, the older I get, I look back and I say, well, why do you act this way? Why do you think this way? Well, a lot has to do with being raised in that kind of environment. Now, did you did you go to a Catholic school? Yeah, twelve years, all the way through high school. My parents that was very important
to them. We didn't have we didn't have a lot of money, that's for sure, but that was a major, of major importance to both of my parents to have myself and I have two sisters, you know, they they did sacrifice quite a bit to send us through a private school, and it benefited us greatly. And I know that having a private education rather than public there are a lot of benefits to it, even if it's you know,
in the Catholic Church, it did have a lot of benefits. And you grew up in the seventies and eighties in Los Angeles and southern California, and you graduated. At what point did you find your way from from SoCal into Tennessee US been, That's quite a story. I got married in two thousand and five. My wife is from southern California as well, from San Clementi down in Orange County, and we met in San Luis Obispo. I don't know if you've been, but it's just north of Santa Barbara. Beautiful
town. But when we started working, as you know, real adults, you know, looking for a home, all that stuff that particular area was. It was formidable even then to even dream about buying a house. And so in two thousand and eight, I, after a lot of applying and
looking around, I got a job in the Seattle area. So we've moved up to Washington State in two thousand and eight, and I worked for city government and then for local government, and my last job I worked for ten years for a local government and in two thousand, well, in twenty twenty one, I guess is when the hammer really dropped and they started pushing the COVID vaccines. And really, to make a long story short, because I could go on for days. Of course, I had to make the choice,
and it was an easy choice. There's been difficulty with it, of course, but you know, I lost lost about fifteen years of pension. But my wife and I decided that it was more important for us to live in an area with more freedom, more like minded people, et cetera. Had a The Seattle area had gone from fairly I don't want to say idyllic, because I can't really paint that picture, but it was a It was
a good place to live when my first moved there. We would go into Seattle and go to the Symphony and you know, enjoy dinner down there. And it really, I would say, started going upside down around the time my daughter was born twenty twelve, and it just it really just started plummeting as far as uh, you know, the way of life and the heavy handedness of the government, etc. And then COVID really it really brought the
dark into the light. And so we packed up everything, we settled on Tennessee and made the drive, set our goodbyce for our families, and we've been out here since well, we came out here in December of twenty twenty one. Yeah, and I'll tell you, Tennessee is is just a jewel. Every time we drive through on forty. My wife, you know, she she's just her dream is to build a log cabin and the Smoky mountains
in Tennessee. It's just so beautiful down there. The people are wonderful, the air quality is good, it's the cost of living is affordable, and uh, it's definitely a great place to go to to raise a family. And you certainly did escape, and I wanted to ask you because you were there, because I did notice too. The twenty twelve is kind of when things took a sharp turn, and I was in the c Tech area. I guess it would have been twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen, Buddy retired from
JBLM joint based McCord up there outside of Tacoma. And as pretty as it is, You're right, it is. You can definitely tell it's a different vibe in that community. Was there a certain event that that led up to it or was it a slow boil and all of a sudden, you know, the wokeism or whatever term you want to use to uh, you know, and a lot of it really reared its ugly head in twenty twenty with Chazz and everything else that was going on in bizarro world up there. But
was there something that happened in twenty twelve that really sparked it? Or is that just what are your thoughts on that? You know? I don't.
I don't have a great answer for that. I can say that when when I first when we first moved there, I was so just involved in starting life over and just getting getting at it, you know, and earning a living and all that, and being in a new area of course as well, that you kind of you're still soaking it all in when I changed jobs in twenty twelve and was making you know, better money, all that we had a house, now, all these things. We lived in a pretty
nice area. I think the human brain the capacity for sort of I don't, I don't know what you would call it, but sort of finding your happy place. You can kind of just be in your own little enclay that and almost ignore the stuff going on around you. So I don't know if that was part of it. I'm sure it is a little bit. I've always been a news junkie, so I wasn't sitting there in the dark. I knew all these things were going on around us, but I didn't experience
a lot of it. We stopped going into Seattle because we saw the crime, you know, we had. I'd been down there once and I saw somebody steal something. And even down the street from us, we had a I don't want to say an abandoned home, a home that wasn't being lived
in. It was for sale, and you know, some RV moved in next in front of it and it was one of those you know, things being held together by by coat hangers and tape, and they squatted in that building and I just that's when I and that was probably around twenty fifteen or sixteen, when my daughter was was little, and that kind of affected me personally, like seeing that what was going on just you know, a block and a half away where she rides her bike. When I started thinking,
yeah, this place. For it to come that close to home was when my eyebrows were definitely raised. But to make a long story short, I think it was a slow boil for me. And then when it did hit, it hit, you know, there was no escaping it. You couldn't
pretend anymore. That's that's too bad. I've had how many people including I think my mom had mentioned at one point that they used to go to Portland all the time and Seattle all the time in the seventies and eighties and into the nineties, and you know, especially Portland, what are they called the Rose City and just how beautiful it used to be and now it's just a
shell of what it used to be. And it really just goes to show what politicians, what poor politicians, I should say, what poor politicians can do to an entire city. It's it's really sad, it really is. Now, you made a bold decision, so obviously you were at some point
awake. You were hesitant to take the old jab. Now you did mention that you came to Christ in two thousand and eight, and can you kind of go from there your journey to the truth, from being saved in two thousand and eight and the people who influenced you into your awakening, and where was flat Earth in the whole realm of being awake? Sure? I think I was always skeptical. Okay, I'll say that right up right out the gate. You know, I think I said said, you know, when
I was a kid, I would look at the moon. I would just stare at it, and I would think, you know, that kind of looks, you know, the dark spaces of the moon. I said, that kind of looks like the earth, and I would but I would keep that in my head. I wouldn't tell anybody because I figured it sounded silly. So I always kind of was out there a little bit thinking outside the box, I suppose. But when when my wife and I moved to Seattle, we found a really great church that we like a lot. We ended
up leaving that church about two three years later. But that's when when I started getting into my Bible more regularly. I started just you know, what happens a lot of time when when when you're saved, or when when you first become saved, you kind of dig into it pretty hard. A lot
of people do, and and I was no exception. And so at work at the time, I had an iPod and I would download or listen to like a w tozer and I would just listen to sermons or different different like sermon audio things like that, and I would listen to it a lot. And I don't know the exact person, but I think at one point, I think it was the Giants. I'm fairly certain it was the Nephelim something
in a in a podcast like Okay, I've never heard that before. And so it started with the Nephelin and turned into Rob Skiba you know that that's kind of like and started to listening to other podcasts that talked about the giants and and just and that kind of started, I would say, the real journey into like, Okay, what what have we been taught that has set
us down the wrong path? Like We've been taught so many things that you know, I've giants were always mythology, right always, and and once my eyes opened up to the fact that, okay, the Word of God has taught me that giants existed, but man tells me that that was mythology? Okay, what else? What else is there? And uh, but of course, you know, you know Rob Skiba and Eric de Bay, but
particularly Rob. You know, he went from I think it was maybe twenty twelve or thirteen fourteen, I'm not exactly sure, but he went from Nephelim and then like went head on into flat earth. It seemed he took a huge shift. And I'd say I started that major shift right around that time with him, because I really respected him. Yeah, and I'll tell you the one thing that really I don't know if you ever heard it, because Rob has so many hours and hours of audio out there, but did you
ever hear him talk about Nimrod? Yes? Yeah, just incredible stuff. Yeah, it's such a loss losing him last year. His wife actually came out within the last few months and kind I came out in public and she made a speech. It was on YouTube. I'd have to go back and find it. If I do find it, I'll link it in the show description. You know, they were like two peas in a pod, and it was a huge loss for the truth community. And he was such a
follower of Christ and uh he he was a very critical thinker. And I too. One of the first people who introduced me to the Nephilim, into Giants and Genesis six was Rob Skiba as well. On that note, did you have a chance to listen to the Gary Wayne episode yet? Yes? And in fact I have I have the Genesis sixth Conspiracy. I have that book. I got about halfway into it. He's a he's a great writer. It's a very heavy book, but I but it's a good book.
So I'm very familiar with him because I've listened to Terry cry radio for example, and Rob used to had been on that and I in fact, Sheila was on that not too long ago, I believe, and so yeah, that's it's yeah, that's I'm I'm I'm aware of like nim Rod for example, you had brought up Nimrod. Yeah, I would really like to. I want to be around for the day because you know that says he turned into it. What is a gibberine? Yeah, I feel like the technology
is out there that we're going to see that. I don't know what that even means, but there's nothing new under the sun, and I just wonder if we're going to live to see the return of you know, as as a giant like I wonder if that's the form it's going to take or if it's going to be more of the left behind kind of scenario. Yeah, that's definitely going to be interesting times for sure for you for here to see
that. Yeah, you had mentioned in your email that you know, looking at the moon was kind of comforting for you and you really took the time I'm in your you know, I guess in the last five or ten years to really devote to learning about the true shape of Biblical Earth. Was there a certain bullet point that resonated with you in your search too, Like did you come into like, I'm going to disprove heliocentrism and you couldn't or was
it just that the flat earth made too much sense? Was there a smoking gun in your research that said, yeah, this is you know, the biblical cosmology makes a lot more sense than the spinning ball. Yeah, it was actually a pretty easy thing for me to accept that the Earth was flat.
Of course we don't know the exact you know, how it looks exactly, but you know when they started taking What really opened my eyes was when they started taking things off of YouTube, because I because I feel like when when whoever the powers that be are when they start either attacking verbally or taking
things away from the public so they can't see it anymore. If it was just another myth, for example, bigfoot, you can look up a million you type big foot in YouTube and you're gonna get a bunch of stuff, right or lockness monsters. So they obviously don't view it like that, right.
It seems to be a real hot button thing that they do not want people to see so, and I do believe that, of course, that men are liars, and and knowing that, having that knowledge that the men are for the most part, they're out for themselves, out to protect their own interests. It was actually really easy for me to look at the story that I was told since I was a little kid and having a globe everywhere, and you know, being inundated with it. And then when flat Earth
came around, it wasn't it wasn't a difficult shift. It was actually very easy for me, and and and I think the biggest the biggest thing for me was just the Bible itself. I feel like the more I learn about flat Earth, and I watched the videos and I it could be overwhelming sometimes because there are a variety of opinions out there, but the sort of the more time that passes, the older I get, and especially with raising a daughter, I want to go back into the Word and see where we're being
told by God our reality and the Bible. You know, it's pretty It could be a little cryptic, of course, but I think it's pretty specific in other in other parts and it being stationary for example, I mean, that's that's huge. You can't just pretend that it doesn't say that. And and I've heard Christis, other Christians people that I really like take something like the still Earth and they'll they'll they'll do mental jiu jitsu to get to a
spinning ball. Yeah, and it's it's kind of easy to spot now. So yeah, the Bible to me right now is kind of the the answer, the answer to the question. I still enjoy the videos, and obviously I listen to your podcast and everything, but I like, I really like when you have guests they bring up different Bible verses that I hadn't heard before or paid enough attention to. And then I get to go back and look and I have the you know, the Blue Letter Bible where you can search
on terms of course, and that's been a huge help. Yeah, that strong concordance. And there's so many tools out there that are really really helpful. And you know what's really cool is, you know, people listen to these podcasts and then they will and maybe they're not even at the time they listen to the podcast Bible believers, that they're kind of getting into it because flat Earth has led a lot of people back to God. And I'll get
questions and I'll have to go back and do my research again. So it is I've spent a lot more time in the Bible, which is a good thing since this podcast has started, because I'm getting q and as I think, just was it yesterday or today? Somebody had asked me about Genesis one chapter I'm sorry, Genesis chapter one, verse three when God said let there be light, and there was light, and the email or has said, well the sun hadn't you know, he didn't made the sun in the moon
yet. That that's a couple of verses later. So what was the light in Genesis chapter one, verse three? So there's always, you know, questions to research within that. That's so amazing. I mean, to plunder God, who's mean that's all you can do, right, I mean, you're gonna you're not gonna get past ponder. So but I'll tell you what. The the one thing that really bothers me is biblically speaking, when people bring up the whole circle of the earth thing in Isaiah. Yeah, and
they and they say it's evidence of the ball. Can I can I read Isaiah to you? Yeah? Is that the one with the grasshoppers? Yes? Please? Forty verse twenty two. Okay, I'll read this is a king James. But it says it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers that stretches, stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spread them out as a tent to dwell. Okay, circle. When I hear the words circle, I don't think
of a ball. I just if you do a Google search on circle, it's a it's a two D. It's I can have a circular table. That's a fleas pan. Okay. Now, if we take the same book Isaiah and we go to we go back a few chapters to Isaiah twenty two, verse eighteen. Have you ever read that one? Which one again, I'm sorry, Isaiah twenty two verse eighteen, Yeah, I think that's similar to the one you just read forty Yeah. So it says he will surely
violently turn and toss the like a ball into a large country. So, and you know, roughly twenty chapters before the circle, Isaiah's talking about a ball, So he knows what a ball is. So if it was a ball, and he would have very well have said, he said, up on the ball of you, but he didn't. He was very specific. He says circle over there, and so I when people bring up the circle, I'm like, okay, backtrack to twenty two because he says ball.
He knows what a ball is. So I've always found that a little interesting because I I that seems to be an argument from a lot of Christians with the leading the you know, the chill ecentric model is the circle of the earth, and it's just you couple that with a footstool. It's like you you don't have a I've never seen a footstool in the shape of a globe exactly, and and I've never looked I've never looked at a ball and say,
look, it's a circle. And going back to what you said, if you look at the actual definition of circle, there's two big differences. One the circle is a two D and obviously a ball is a three D. But secondly, if you look at the actual definition, it's funny. There's a word in there that should resonate with everybody. It says a circle is a shape consisting of all points in a plane. Yes, yes,
yep, yep, there's a which which one is. This is Joe where he talks about the circuit of heaven and when you look honest, se this is the strongs Joe twenty two fo TEENA. I believe maybe that was it. Yeah, because I'm looking at the Hebrew and it says circuit means a circle sphere used of the arch or vault of the sky. So it's talking about the circuit. It's talking about the ball an arch, which brings me,
you know, to the rainbow. When I see a rainbow. You know, as a child, you hear rainbow and you're thinking like a bow on your tie, a bow in your shoe. But that when I see a rainbow, I see an image of the dome, the covering. Yeah, I think it's a perfect representation of this covering over us. Right. So yeah, that but circle and ball, Isaiah says them both. So next time, so he tells you that circle means a ball point to that. But yeah, there you go. Now that you have realized that we
live on a flat plane. How did you present that your wife? I mean, she took to it right away. It didn't take a lot of convincing. I had her listen to you know, I think I gave her at that time. It was either Eric Dubay or what's what's the guy's name? Is it Flat Earth Clues Guy? Is that it Mark? Yes, Yes, I think I ever listened to work actually, and she was. And I don't know what to think of him now, it doesn't really matter, but but I'm fairly certain that's who I pointed her toward, and she's
said those are all valid points. And then along with the fact that she's I mean, she's in her Bible way more than I am. I mean, she's she's amazing and and with that, with the strength of her reading of God's where she's I don't think she has any doubt as to the shape of the earth at all. So she was she was really easy to talk to. I mean, I could talk to her about it. Now, she's not fully invested like I am, but I don't have any reservations bringing
her more information or even kind of crazier ideas. You know, She's like, even with the COVID thing, we were so on board with that, we were on the same page that it's really strengthened our marriage. And I would even say this as well, is strengthened our marriage. When when you kind of you make a move across the country that that's obviously a huge commitment, and you want somebody on your side who thinks the same way as you. And it is also pretty helpful to have somebody on the same page as
you when it comes to the earth that you're living on. Makes things a little easier. Yeah, And you know, speaking to John Kerwin the other day, you know that there were a lot of people with COVID that it destroyed marriages because of the avisiveness and with other folks like yourself, like me and my wife, we went through some you know, rough times as well.
And I guess now it's the good time to kind of segue into that which I'm going to spend this entire work with weekend working on an episode for Tuesday's Fact Hunt her. We're going to do a massive retrospect on COVID with all the tyranny and everything that happened. But number one, did it affect with your extended family? Was there any devices, you know, divide within your extended family or were you all on the same page? Okay, So again with I'm a huge family, so it extends a lot a lot of
people. But the people that I'm in contact with, no, I think we were all. I think we're all on the same page. My younger sister is a nurse and she's not at all on the same page. And but we've never been really close my older sister, and much closer my older sister. It's just unfortunate the way it all went down. And my older sisters, she's incredibly smart. She was a principal, she was a teacher, but she went out and got it, you know, and I didn't
have monitor or anything, but she knows how. I feel like both my parents got it. My dad is immutocompromised. He is, He's had numerous cancers. He's still going though, but I think he was advised and he followed the advice. But as as far as like our move out here, if everybody supported it, there's nobody who said, I mean, obviously they know why we can. So nobody said, well, Mark, you're you're
overreacting. You don't need to make such a big move. They had a sort of going away party for us, and a lot of my relatives came, and although it wasn't really a topic of conversation should like COVID specifically, everybody knew why and everybody was really supportive but I mean, if I could go my my sister, my older sister, she during COVID had her teachers, you know, all doing the zoom classes that everybody was doing, and at some point she wanted to reward them, and so she had the teachers
meet and at a park, bring their own blankets, and she supplied food. She went to the local Mexican place and supplied food, and some nosy neighbor called the cops on even though they were all on separate blankets. And yeah, so I think she got a taste of the you know, of just how bad it was, so she didn't have any issue or say anything
negative to us coming out here. I had to go to a funeral my uncle papsed away during COVID, and it was at a Croatian Catholic church, and you know, they did the separating of people, but the reality years within about five to ten minutes, nobody was, you know, following along and kind of just everybody was wearing masks, of course, but the overall vibe of the room was they all knew it was nonsense, and you know,
unfortunately the churches had to follow some protocols, but they were fairly lenient for that but of course he couldn't have. You know, if my uncle was a very beloved person, and he probably would have had two thousand people at his funeral, but I think they had to keep it down to like fifth year or whatever it was, so it was a real shame. He had two things I'll kind of tell you. Number one, I had to drive. I think it was once a month. I had to drive from
taser Hungry to Sarajevo and back. And driving through Croatia, one of the most amazing countries, beautiful countries, the friendliest people. Everybody smiled, everybody waved, and it's kind of crazy how just a border, how everything can change, going from just Croatia to the former Republic of Yugoslavia and just incredible
but just awesome people. Zagrab Beach is you know, one of the best beaches in the world, and they've kind of kept they haven't really had this huge from what I've heard, they haven't really had this huge influx of folks from other countries like you know, Europe and in America has seen. So it's one of the few gems left in the world. And uh, there's the thing now that you're saying that the problem. I want to say the problem, but I'm being a little position, But it was, it was
always Croatia was always sort of the hidden, hidden gym. A lot of people from Europe would go there to the coast because it is so beautiful, but the cats out of the bag kind of and it's it's definitely, you know, they've especially after the war, there were a lot of Croatian Americans with money that invested back into the country and putting up more hotels and things like that. And I think it's uncle of my moved to Zadar right on
the coaster as well, and it's definitely. I don't think it's a secret anymore, that's for sure. Yeah. I got a really cool beer mug beer Stein from Croatia that I still have to this day. I got fond
memories of that place. It's awesome. So you got to have some food too, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, that part of the world is so is so interesting now obviously when you get into Kosovo and Bosnia and Serbia, you know that that kind of strife has been going on for a long long time, right, going even going back to the World War One that time frame, right, that's where what's his name Ferdinand, right that that was
Yugoslavia where he got shut. Yeah, yeah, our stupart Ferdinand. And but is Tito was around when my father was there, and that's he and his brothers and they all had to escape. They all went left at separate times, but they all had to escape just because it got some bad And you know, my dad would tell me that you would have to whisper if you wanted to talk politics because you were afraid of your neighbor turning you in.
This kind of sounds like COVID. Yeah, there you go, and it's funny, not funny, haha, But you know, yeah, I read an article a guy who he's more I guess a social media guy, being popular that way. But he's a good dude. And he wrote a story last week on his father died in twenty twenty a July of twenty twenty, and he added, I think he lived in SoCal and the funeral was in Seattle, so he went up to Seattle. They only allowed one person in there at the time, So there was the casket with his dad in
it, and one person at a time could go inside. So he remembered just sitting in the funeral parlor by himself with his dad, you know, and he's like, my dad was soltered the earth and just you know, everybody how they think of their father, and you know, and for him to go out that way, he was very saddened. But he also mentioned driving back Oregon apparently as a state where you're not allowed to pump your own
gas. He didn't know that. So he's like, you know, I get out of I pull up to a gas station and I started to get out of my car and and he encountered that type of thing. The gas station attendant is like, what are you doing out of your car? And he's like, I forgot I couldn't bump my gas. And he's like,
what are you we even traveling for this? There's a global pandemic going on, and just you know how just regular people not you know, it's bad enough that the government shut us down, but for the same people to embrace the enslavement and you know, try to think that you have more power over someone else. The entire thing was just clown world. It's just lunacy. And I can't tell you how many times I was pulled, pulled my mask
up over my nose by you know, like fifteen year olds. It was just, uh yeah, it was I have no So my wife's father still lived out in Washington and they have a place, a beach house in Oregon as well, a great place and all that real beautiful. But I and she was just out there visiting, and I told her I really have no desire to ever go out there again, to even give that state my money again, just just because the way it all went down. And I mean,
I do harbor a lot of presentment. Of course I've given a lot of it up, but you know, I gave up a lot. I gained a lot, but I certainly you know, you know, I'm fifty one and I was planning another you know, fifteen sixty years and then getting out with my pension, and I really don't have that option as yet, so I've had to you know, that was a big decision. Obviously, it wasn't a big decision to come out here, but I mean this idea
of hey, you're giving up, you're giving up a pension. Essentially I'll get a little bit, but in the end, the reality is for my daughter, you know, she's homeschooled. It's just a better environment out here. So if I could at least give her that before I go. I think it'll have been worth it. Yeah, and I really applaud your conviction, and I felt terrible for everybody. You know, my thoughts were with all the guys in the military who maybe were you know how many people had
seventeen eighteen years in the military invested and you know the same thing. And in the military, you get you start collecting your pension upon retirement. You don't have to wait till sixty sixty two, sixty five. You start getting it right away, and you invest that much time and effort into it, and then you're told if you don't get this, you're going to lose it all. It's just and listen, if you don't I've said this many times. If we don't have physical autonomy, we have no hope for freedom.
And to see our fellow Americans champion the tiering, uh that that that was brought upon us was really bothersome. And to all the people, I'm not going to get into the politics, I don't do that on this program. But to the folks who say just wait till November of twenty twenty four and everything will be better, Uh, you need to put down the hopium. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent on it was for me, it was just disconcerting to see the you know, people that you
trusted, you know, I lost. I lost a couple of friends, but I definitely lost one that was I was pretty close to him because I felt like it was one of those situations where like, if you have a buddy, who's hey, Mark, if you're ever getting in a fight and somebody's beating up, I'm gonna get in there. I'm gonna scrap with you, and you know whatever, I'm gonna be there for you. And then if that actually, you know, ever happened, you just watch them turn
around and run away. That's kind of what I felt with this, is like, hey, you know, the government ever does this, this and this, you know, we'll we'll, we'll, I'll buy a commune together and get out of here. And that's not what happened. My friend. He he was in in tech and he was able to sell a business and do very well and moved out of state, and he decided that taking flights and being able to start another business, you know, you know, business
as usual was worth it for him. That that was his reasoning for getting the vaccine was so that he can fly again. And I thought, you know, you've got your wife, you've got your kids, you've got this new house, you've got this money in the bank, you could start a little coffee shop, you know, for you could do something. Why why does it have to be why do you have to get this shot in order
to go fly again? And it was so shortsighted of so many people to say, you know, I just need to get that shot so I can fly. I'm like, why don't you just chill out, give it a little time and see what happens. And there weren't enough people that were willing to chill out and give it some time. And I knew. I told my management, you know, I was in management at night. I have people above me, and I told them this is a mistake. It's a mistake to push this. I said, given time, they're going to be
lawsuits. And they basically said, well, well we'll deal with it then and just pushed it. So, yeah, I just kind of feeling that sense of betrayal. You worked for somebody for I was with them for ten years, and then you know, to to not even give a a little bit of compassion, sympathy, whatever you want to call it, toward towards people that worked for you just pulled me away, But it also revealed revealed people's true motivations, and I guess there's positive in that. As hurtful as
it is at the moment, it's good to know now. And again, I do believe to this day that the overplaying of COVID has led to a lot of people waking up to everything else that's going on. And with COVID, we see that they use fear to control people and then kind of coming back around full circle. I believe, and i'd like your thoughts on this, that heliocentrism is another one of these tools that they use for fear.
You see, they're going crazy with the climates and everything else. But they can also play the alien card, which is something that they've hinted at for the last forty years since the Reagan era, and of course it really came out in the fifties, which was nothing more than stolen technology from the Germans
and just you know things they experiment with. It's not little green men from Draconia or wherever, but you know, the asteroids could hit us any day, so I think hiding God is probably one will number one and number two is fear and control. What are your thoughts on heliocentrism and why it's important to them? Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's it's the ultimate lie, you know. I think Satan's been hard at work for a
long time pushing all of his lies. But I think ultimately, if you can tell people that they're prisoners and that they're an accident, and you do it from the moment, they can comprehend who they are, that that kind of programming, it's not easy to just just to forget. Now, I will say this, I was at I was at a friend's house, and this is aproposed a conversation. I was at a friend's house just recently my wife was out of town. And they're dellow Christian friends of mine, awesome
people. I really do respect them. But one of them, in particularly is huge into then so is his son. I mean, they love NASA this and one of his biggest heroes is budget was Aldrin. He he laments to this day that he had an opportunity to meet him and he passed it up. And so we were talking about this, and I don't know who asked me. But at some point somebody saw the look on my face and oh yeah, and he said, do you not think we went to the moon? I said, no, I don't, and really, you could
have heard a pin drop and he said, why not. You want to know what my incredibly eloquent answer was to that. It was because it's so stupid. That was my answer. That's all I could come up with at the time. Is you know, why why don't you think we went to the moon? And I said, because it's so stupid. And then I just kind of started laying out some of the things that bothered me about it.
Obviously, the technology was was you know, they had phones the size of a shoe back then, and I mean the technology wasn't up, not even close. You look at the lunar lander. It's made of sticks and tape. And Anya always started pointing these things out, and I think I think I was losing them a little bit. But at the same time, I actually was a little proud of myself because I felt that that was the opening, like, Okay, Mark is the disbeliever, the moon disbeliever guy.
At least now they know that. And I feel like my sort of trepidation to ever bringing up flat Earth. I've kind of pierced pierced that a little bit because now I can see that topic coming up again, like, oh, Mark doesn't believe in we landed on the moon, and I can kind of start pushing some biblical you know, because we're Christians. I could start pushing some biblical stuff at them and then maybe flatterth will because I don't
want to just come out and say flatterth right. I wanted to come out, you know, naturally, and I feel like the moon thing being brought up without meat even bringing it up. Help with that. And to your point about the fear that actually came up, I told them that if if tomorrow, you know, the skies opened up and a UFO came down and some beings came down, you know, filled with light, and they said, you're you know, they were lying to you. There is no God.
We put you here. I said, how many people, including Christians would be And I don't I don't know if I got an answer. I don't think I got an answer to that. But but but that's that's the truth. I think people who call who I don't want to say, called them. So I think good God fearing Christians out there. You know, God himself says that that the seat would be so great that if it were
possible, even the elect would fall for it. Right, So can you just imagine can you imagine it when you when you believe this thing that we're out here in the middle of nowhere, and there are other planets and other beings and they could come here and come and go as they please, and that someday they're going to come and tell us that they are our saviors and they put us here. How many people would drop their faith in a heartbeat. And I think that that is probably part of the plan, you know,
the big alien thing. I don't know if that's the in Time's deception or not, but you know, I'm sure it has to do with with something to that effect. But yeah, that's it's I think right now that the government's been using it as a distraction, you know, bringing up UFOs and all that, but it's it's always sort of it there in the background, and so I and I think, what what gosh, I'm forgetting his
name again? The flat Earth clues, I don't know, like Mark Sargeant, Mark Sargeant, thank you, you know, that really resonated with me, and that presentation that he made about feeling caged in and not knowing what's beyond beyond that that fence, you know, when you feel like you're trapped, and I and I feel like people without knowing it, that that's what
it is. They feel special that they can go beyond you know, and article or whatever, so they get they just have their little lives and they're just doing what they need to do to get by that week, that that month would ever and they don't think beyond that. Because why, I think beyond that, you're you're you're trapped, You're in this you're on this spinning ball in the middle of space. And if people had people had any knowledge that God is literally there above us, I mean, it would be a
game changer. And and and uh, you know we can't have that, can't we. I mean, the direction of this world is headed. We can't have that. So I think Satan's working in double time to keep that disinformation around and keep people feeling afraid. And Yeah, during that conversation that I had with my friends, one of them brought up the whole well, how many people are in on the lie? Do you think everybody's lying.
Do you think you know? And I just compared it to evolution. You don't need to be part of a conspiracy to be to teach evolution, right, we know it's a lie. As Christians, all my friends and I know it's a lie. We don't believe in evolution. We believe we were created. And so if if your teacher in high school is teaching evolution to you, they're not in on a conspiracy. They're being taught what they were
taught. It's a lie, but they don't know it's a lie. And I think, I think the shape of our Earth is the same way. You don't need to be part of a conspiracy. It's just part of it's part of the fabric of who we are. It's just it's it's you're indoctrinated with it, and it's just it's a snowball, and people just teach what they were taught. And you know, hopefully we can break through that at
some point, but that's just the way it is. Flat Earth and evolution are very similar in that the lie is so big that you don't need to necessarily be aware of a conspiracy. You're just you're just regurgitating what you've been taught over the years, and you're you know, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. It just means you're misinformed one hundred percent. And two things I wanted to touch on is people need to realize it's not a coincidence that
you're allowed to travel freely to basically any country in the world. I mean, you're not to go to North Korea. Maybe I ran in a few other countries, but you can freely travel the world except for Antarctica. And not only can't you travel there, I mean, if you want to pay the ten twenty thousand dollars to go see Deception Island or roth Child's Island, you can get the token picture and come back, but you can't freely explore down there. And it's not a coincidence that people who are in on this
treaty, you know, are sworn enemies China and Russia. You know, we're on the verge of World War three, but we we are all on board with space and Antarctica, right yeah, yeah, But you know, let me ask you this because I heard you. I actually just today listen to your talking to Dave Weiss, and he obviously is an influence too. I love I like his voice. He's got a good he's got a differ kind. You have a really great radio voice. Dave's voice is so jilior
that it kind of like grips me. But you know when when you see the like we'll take SpaceX, all these rockets that supposedly go into outer space doing their thing, and and their their trail leaves an arc, right, so it doesn't go straight off the leaves in art, that's right. Uh, what have you ever heard the refutal from like what do people say about it? I've never heard anybody say, well, no, it's because of this or because that that it's making that park rather than just going straight up.
Do you know what people say about that? Or is Daves if I remember correctly, something about like do you remember Apollo was it thirteen? Where they used the gravity they went around and they use the gravity to slingshot themselves. I've heard that one time before. But again it doesn't make any sense because it's not like it goes up hundreds of miles and then starts to arc. I mean it's literally within the first sixty seconds you see it start to
turn. And uh, I always say, because I did some research on the Bermuda Triangle. It was just about the same time in the sixties when we started dumping the rockets in that area where the stories of the Bermuda Triangle started, and boats would avoid that area. And now it turns out it's it's a rocket grave well, so so then I guess the question would be if if you knew, for example, they were going to be blasting something off to the Mars or whatever they say, and you had the time and
the means to go camp out in your boat out. I mean, do you think the Navy or whoever's out there, you know, you know, move along, move along, dent on hundred percent. Yes, Okay, Well then I want to you know, I work with a guy was in the Navy for twenty years. He just retired not long ago. But I kind of want to ask me. I told him I believe in flat earth. He's a Christian, and he actually was pretty he was all right with
it. He was actually kind of your shocked. But we had a good conversation because so I kind of want to ask him about that because he's been all over the world and I don't know that that to me would be such a can you imagine can you imagine being on a boat and being able to film SpaceX dumping into the Atlantic. Oh, they would scoop us up so fast with if we got that footage, we would disappear off the face of the Earth's so quick, I know, I know, I just I wonder
what the becaism is that. I know it sounds really naive, but I just wonder. You know, how many ships do they have out there monitoring? I mean, you can all And again I don't know enough about the technology the Navy has. I'm sure it's extraordinary, but I just wonder what I mean, if you're just going a fishing trawler out there right, It's just it's that easy for them to know you're out there, just camping out
there, waiting to see where this rockets going. I mean, I guess it makes sense, but yeah, I mean, couldn't couldn't have happened before? Certainly I think it could have. The expanses of the ocean. The ocean is so big, I mean, it makes like against seventy percent. And I've had friends who would ride the boat because we would send equipment to
one Iraq. Most of us flew, but we always had to send one or two reps on the boat to escort the equipment and just you know, the guy's face of the ocean, just you're in the middle of nowhere, and they would go days without seeing another vessel. So the expanses of the seas are just so huge. So I think the chances of somebody actually being around in certain spots, I think they probably know what spots are inhabited by
fishermen and what areas are not to the effect where they are able. I mean, listen, they can manipulate everything on this world, so I'm sure they can manipulate and have radar locks on who's out there and who's not where to drop it. I'm assuming again, all this is you know, yeah, we uh. I worked for the railroad for some time as a conductor and an engineer in California, and we used to go by Vandenberg often,
that was right. I would go from San Luis Obisco to Los Angeles, and quite a few times they'd have a rocket out there on the launching pad, you know, smoke coming from it, and then we would have to stop short of it for one hundred miles or whatever, one way or the other. And during launches but a lot of times we'd go by and they were just preparing and we get to see the and back there. I did back then, I didn't believe in flat earth, so I just thought it
was amazing, and they are amazing, they're huge. But but on that and on like that, I kind of know, I think about it. I kind of answered myself. So that one time we were we were coming back from Los Angeles out in the middle of nowhere, going through the Vandenberg you know, the space there on the ocean, along the ocean, and there was a homeless guy and he had probably five to ten armed machine gun toting Vandenburg people surrounding him. Because I've gone past, you know, there's
a fence and you know there would be warnings here and there. But obviously they've got they've got the technology to find one homeless guy, you know, walking beyond where he was supposed to walk. So yeah, and when we talk about this, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead. Oh no, that's so, I guess I answered my own question. I guess it's probably pretty easy for them to find somebody out in there in the middle of the ocean where they're not supposed to be. Yeah, absolutely, and I
don't even know it. Maybe Navy, but there's lots of high end especially in this country, there's a lot of high end security companies out there that they could use that they would have I'm sure they could have their employee their employees sign and you know, not disclosure agreements and and listen, we all know that if you pay somebody enough money, they'll shut up, they'll look
the other way, they won't say a thing. Money is that there's unfortunately, there's not a lot of people out there that have the conviction, uh to turn down that much money just for simply turning your head the other way. Yeah, or that are being put in a compromising position and they don't want that like our politicians. Yes, I mean even yeah. But but so let's take the let's take the Challenger explosion and and the you know,
the great twin debate. Yea, with all these us twins, I mean to me, there's one or two that are a little bit like I'm not seeing it, But there are a couple that are like, there's just there's no question that's the same person. But somehow, well not somehow they just
keep your mouth shut their paid off. I don't know, but how is it that somebody is not like in that person's face with the with a microphone and a camera asking them, Hey, you look strikingly familiar to this guy that well up on the space should Yeah, the one, the one guy. I don't remember which one it was, but even like his right eye
was kind of pulled. I don't even know how you explained that his eyes kind of Yeah, it's like the same guy today who apparently had his own company with a cow on like his company logo was a cow like on a rocket or something. Yeah, yeah, you can't. I don't get it.
It's just so that that that you would think in that instance, Okay, we're paying you a few million dollars, just go and be anonymous, you know what I'm saying, Like if you pay me, if you said, Mark, here's ten million, go be anonymous, you would never hear from me again. Like that would be it? Like I could, I
would, You would never know who I would. But to go out and to start a business and be out on the web, and I mean you have to kind of work hard these days to not be on a Google search, yeah for sure, but to have your face, yeah, but to have your face out there, you know, running a company, and I don't know. That one, to me is kind of bizarre. I'm not quite sure if it's a mocking thing, like they know that we know, but they don't care. But that one, to me is just about as
obvious as you can get. Of course, I was. I was in eighth grade when that happened, I think eighty six, and that was a big deal, you know. The I was at a Catholic school and the teacher was a nun and she came in crying and told us, and we ended up going home for the day. And I watched that thing on Luke. I mean, I remember what I was eating the whole time, you
know, that had that much of an impact. But I was watching that explosion on a loop for like everybody else, I'm sure, for hours, So that one was ingrained, ingrained in my head, kind of like the nine to eleven thing, you know. Yeah, one hundred percent that that fear based mind control. And that's one reason it will. People are quick because they saw it on TV with their own eyes. And Nixon said people won't believe anything until they see it on the television or hear it on the
television. And that is really one of the most powerful tools that the enemy has is the television. And one of the weird connections I always thought of is well, number one these people if you look going all the way back to Apollo eleven, of course there's your numbers. But these people are Freemasons, so they are already compromised. Well before they're even the face of something like this, they've already been compromised. They know not only will they face
difficult times, but their family members will too. But the one thing that always found interesting was, of course Kristy mccauloff. If I remember the story correctly, she'd only been a school teacher for two years, right, so this she appears out of nowhere. She's a school teacher by the time she's selected, it's just two years, so a very new teacher. And then of course she has a twin by the name of Sharon mcculloff, who was from Sarah Hughes. But she is also a cousin of Terry mccauloff, who
is I think the current governor. I think he's still the governor of Virginia. And all these connections go on, and then the Gabby Gifford's the politician who got shot in Arizona. Her husband is an astronaut and has a twin. So these things, if you gave the script to a Hollywood director, they would throw it out the window because it's just too far fetched. But
coincidence or reality, I mean, who knows. But it's just well, it's suous, doesn't stuous relationships between you know, tech and politians and you know, actors and actresses. And I mean it's just like RFK, you know, he's and then I like him well enough, he seems like a decent person, but uh, you know he's married to Cheryl Hines, who's in you know, on TV. It's just it's interesting to me, the
circles. They nobody ever, none of these people ever marry. It just an ordinary christ No, like he a bank teller or somebody who works at a restaurant. It's but they're always within the same within the same circles. And and and maybe that's just because they all go to the same you know,
cocktail parties. I don't know, but it's it's not it's not an accident that judges are married to major prosecutors or to you know, you know, CEOs of major corporations or it's just that prior to the Internet, really it was difficult to dig in that much and find out how deep these relationships go. Yeah, and so many things with RFK, you know, the way his wife died in twenty twelve and his current wife is an actor on
the world stage. Just and like you said, I always say, you know, if we're such a free country where we tell our children, if you work hard enough and you do the right things and get good grades, you could be president. Anybody could be president. But that's not the case. It's the people from the same family running for president over and over again, the people on the world stage. There is zero chance me or you or anybody listening right now. I'm just giving you the art truth. We
don't have a chance to be president. It's just impossible. Do you feel although that you know, I just probably had nothing new with flatter necessarily, But do you feel like because I believe the word of God one hundred percent, and and when I look at when I look at prophecy and revelation, of course, you know we're on a we're on a collision course with the future with our faith according to scriptures. And I just and there people. There are people who will say, you know, we can, we can.
I don't want to, I don't want to say words in their mouth, but somehow we can, you know, stave it off. But I feel like the our present situation and how it's exponentially worse, I mean, almost daily to say that somehow we're gonna, you know, we're going to somehow ease off on this craziness. I'm just not seeing it. I don't I don't see I don't see one person coming along and and and saying like, oh I and I can fix it all and we're all going to get
along. Like that's just not going to happen. I'm just wondering. You know. Of course, when you're raising I'm raising a child, you don't want it to be that way, you know. I think people are hoping, you know, it's more hope, hope that things are going to work out. But I see us on a collision course and it's going to happen.
And I suppose the more people we wake up to the reality of our world, the better, because obviously a lot of people have come to Christ through this ministry that you have, for example, But to think that somehow we're gonna push it off a year or two or twenty years or whatever. I just don't see that possible. Yeah. So the thing is man is inherently flawed and anytime man's in power, he has has can very easily be
manipulated. So you know, on one part of me, you know, the Bible is very specific that nobody knows the day or the time when the end is going to come. So we may think these are in time, and it could be next week, it could be a after our lifetime. And I think what you said, No, there's not one single person on the world stage who's going to save us, not Trump, not not RFK
Junior, not not anybody. But right, if we can possibly wake up enough people and you know, change things ourselves, basically turn we would have to turn our back on DC. It starts at the community level and say I'm just not going, you know, civil disobedience for for lack of a better word, it would take mass civil disobedience, and that means peaceful to
do your own things, stay community based, and just ignore. If we all ignored the federal government and everything they decree, and you know, there's so many things. That's the thing when you will let something fester so long. You know, each passing day makes it harder and harder, right, and that's why we you know, I'm not here to blame other generations, but the fact of the matter is we've never held anyone at the top of
the government accountable for anything whatsoever. And now that the federal government has grown into this giant octopus with so many tentacles, I mean, how do you know, end the FED and deal with that thirty three trillion dollars in debt and all these three letter agencies that well, now you've got how many hundreds of thousands of government employees. What would that do to our country? Because the federal government is the largest employer in the country. So there's people are
loyal to their paychecks. They're not wanting to give up. You know, they hate the government, but they they dislike the government, but they like the checks. And it is just a sortid mess. Right, What do we do that? That is the million dollar question? Then I guess it comes full circle your belief in God, understanding that man does not control you, that the earth was given to us God by God. God didn't sign it over to Joe Biden and Biden signed it down to the States, and
the States signed it down to to us. No, he gave it directly to us. We have allowed, uh, these corrupted people to claim it for themselves and they've spoiled themselves with the riches at our serfdom. Yeah.
And having worked for small government, you know, local government, and right back to COVID, you know, I would sit in management meetings and what they were telling sort of the rank and file was different than what we would discuss and management meetings, like, you know, the rank and file we're being told over I'm not gonna we're not gonna mandate, but in the meetings that we're having, they're saying the opposite, like it's it's coming, it's
coming. And and when you recognize that, you know, we were small potatoes, that was small local government. They and there was corruption there, no doubt. And you it's you know, when you metastasize into a large giant, either large city or large you know, federal government entities, there's just so much corruption you can't you can't get away from it. And and
all you can do is like what we did. I mean, I guess the argument could be made that we ran away I mean I've heard that from people, not not about us specifically, but I mean, I guess the argument could be that, you know, we didn't stand up. We left. But I heard somebody say this before, and I agree one hundred percent why we didn't leave Washington. Washington left us. You know, we we arrived there in a wait and it's like it it walked away from us.
The place that we moved into walked away, and something else was put in its place. So we had to find another place because it wasn't going to get any better. Yeah, and so yeah, and you know, even at some point when things were really bad, we had you know, looked at Ecuador. There's there's a pretty large American expat uh population there, and the dollar goes a long way, and we kind of get to the same conclusion. You know, we see this as a global event and there's not
really too many places where you can kind of take off too. So we made the decision to dig our heels in here. But where we are as not bad as in many of the other places like say of Portland or Seattle or uh say a Minneapolis, you know, places like that, but everybody has to do. Yeah, I'm in Kent, which is we only have three counties. I'm in the middle one way out west with the Amish folks,
so we're we're out in the in the country. Awesome, awesome, just and you you, because I was going to say this before, I mean before before we parted, I wanted to say, I mean, I really appreciate that you're able to do this. I mean, there have been other flat Earth type podcasts out there that I've that I've listened to, even
Dave you know how to a good one. But but you know, it's it's difficult, I'm sure to have a podcast and keep it rolling and keep the topic alive and fresh and all that, and somehow you've managed to to do. It's actually blown me away. I can't believe how many you can do this. You're like the Stephen King of flat Earth podcast from out uh. But you pulled it off somehow, and I think it's it's awesome. I just hope you could keep it, keep it up, because I think
it's a you know, it's a ministry in itself. I'm sure you view it that way too. One percent. It's a it's a mission, it's it's a labor of of and it's this isn't my podcast, this is our podcast. The first ten episodes were kind of scripted in a way that I wanted it to do. I understood completely that when I first started this podcast that it's a niche podcast. With the fact on her I can talk about nine to eleven one week, I can talk about JFK the next week.
There's never a lack of things to talk about. But when you're in a niche podcast, you have to continue to stay fresh and keep people interested. And then when people started reaching out saying that they'd like to share their thoughts and I saw how it was impacting people, I said, this is how
we're going to do it. And I think it's worked out really well, and it's made me a better person, and you know, people challenge me with questions and I try to be humble about it and realized that I'm not going to be right about everything, and it's a learning experience and it's it's been very rewarding. The emails have been very humbling, and I've had a lot less trolls than I expected, so it's really been a blessing. Have you been able to remain I mean somewhat anonymous or or people like, Oh
no, I'm not I'm not anonymous at all. It's it's interesting. There's sometimes people drive by and stop and then keep going. I don't know if it's the NSA or a listener to the podcast. So I heard if you cover your roof with foil, there you go. Lead paint, you know, lead paint. That's that's the other conspiracy theory. They said lead paint was bad for for the kids because for some you know, everybody eats paint. But but the truth is lead paint will actually keep people from being able
to spy on you. Really, I gotta, I gotta load up on that. Yeah, there's Actually when I worked for a city in near Seattle, there was a house that we got to respond to. Actually we ended up calling like a oilfare check because the person had covered up all their events. Oh wow, Yeah, that's not that's not a good thing. I don't know. I don't know anyhow, it's come come to find out, he was an older person, big spile. So yeah, Hey, have
you ever heard of the YouTube channel called Vibes of Cosmos. Vibes of Cosmos, let me see if I am it sounds familiar, but let's see Vibes of Cosmos. I am subscribed. Yeah, it's they got almost eighty thousand
subscribers and Babuska of Cosmos that's their newest one. So I this guy kind of valided as the way I felt when I was a kid, and he invests a lot of time in this idea of the moon as like a plasma and somehow the creators or what we view as it creators are almost like a like a snapshot of the old of the old Earth as above so below thing or whatever. But I just it's really interesting and he's put a lot of
time and effort into it. Find it, find it really interesting. Yeah, it looks like his second most popular video was the world Map presentation. That's probably the one I need to check out. How I get I'm assuming that's kind of the reflection of the world Map on the Moon. Yeah, yeah, it's just it's he definitely puts puts time in so kind of I'll just check in here and there, but I definitely sat and watched quite a
few of them. Yeah, he's got a lot of views. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I've I've just really had a great time listening to your podcast. I just hope it just keeps steam rolling ahead and you get more people. I mean, in a million years, I never would have thought I would reach out and want to speak, you know, to potentially you know, thousands of people. But it was more just an opportunity, I film, an opportunity to talk to somebody outside of my wife, you know,
about some of these topics. And uh so I just appreciate it. I hope, I hope you keep keep at it. Yeah, that's certainly the plan. And I will tell you that that the one kind of common denominator is that while we all have our friends and family, et cetera, I think a lot of us feel like we don't have someone to talk to about the things we're passionate about, like, let's say, flat Earth,
right. I can't many of my family members. I can't sit down and break down the firmament with people are Antarctica that you just get the what do we call the deer stare, You know, when when a deer's in the middle of the road and the car light hits them, they just kind of the thousand miles stare. So it's kind of hard to have a conversation with things you're passionate about. So when two people get together that are like minded, and you could look. I mean, we've been going for seventy five
minutes now and it seems like ten. So I've had a great conversation with every single person who's come on. I've learned, I've taken away something from every individual, and I'm sure the audience has as well. Yeah, I would agree. I think everybody that I listened to there, you know, they're coming with their own their own views, and you know, there's just normal, normal people kind of just sharing where where they're at. And I've learned a lot, learned a lot from quite a few of the people have
come on onto your show. So yeah, it's it's it's been. It's been really great, and I really appreciate the time and effort to put into it. Well, I appreciate having you, and I'm I'm thankful to hear your story and I admire your courage of doing what you had to do to take care of your family. And that's exactly in a lack that that is the perfect way to say it is you had to do what you had to do to take care of your family, your home school. I've really come
to realize in the last very recently. You know, when you ponder these things, is you know, with public school. And again I listen, guys, I'm not judging anybody. Everybody has their own path. But you know, I thought why because many of my other kids went to public school, and just as a whole, right, as a country, we send our children off to have their minds molded by perfect strangers. And that's not to say there's so many tremendous teachers in the education community, right, there
are plenty of them. But do they have the same moral compass? Do they have the same you know, the family values and these type of things. And these children are going to school for if you count kindergarten thirteen years,
eight hours a day with complete strangers. Now you can't that there's something to say about, you know, with friendship and the hat growing up with other children, right, But this is just something I've really thought about a lot recently, as we as a country we send our children off to complete strangers to have their minds molded. To some people that sounds like a stretch, ridiculous, but to me, that's how I've come in my golden years.
That's how I think of school, especially now that we know how how it's been hijacked, and there's a rhyme and a reason for everything, how critical thinking has been eliminated, and it's you know, just the indoctrination memorize and regurgitate. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, our homeschool adventures started because of COVID because we were sending our daughter to a really good private school and they, you know, she had to go to the zoom classes.
And at some point my wife was already expressing interest in doing homeschooling. And I said, why are we paying this much money per month for zoom classes? I mean, and the way I looked at it was, Okay, this is now. Even if they brought her back three months from now, you know, the first child to sneeze, they're going to close the school down again, and we're right back to paying a lot of money for zoom
classes. And I and that really started us on homeschooling. My wife had already done some research on it, and she's she's awesome, She's taken to it. That's they're they're out of a home school co op today. My wife's taken up gardening. When we first moved up here, we built some raised beds, and she's it's unbelievable. We we've got to give stuff away.
We have to so much. So, you know, we we came out of a bad situation for sure, but you know, we came out here, and you know, thank god, the home prizes when we left the Seattle area were insane, and so we were able to buy a house for cash out here, twice the size we've had in Seattle, and so that put us on a financially, you know, arguably better footing minus minus the pension. In the future, you know, I'll get a little bit, but you know, it won't be what I was expecting. But I
still have time to figure that out. But but I think all in all, considering what we came from and where we are now, even though there's been some you know, obviously there are going to be some ups and downs, but overall it was there's just no question, no question that it was the right decision. I don't think either of us feel any other way. It's just now we gotta kind of settle into the because it is a new environment. For sure, A little culture is a little different out here,
but in a good way. But you gotta kind of get used used to being people being so nice that blew my mom away the first time she came to Texas to visit us and everybody used mym And she's like, because up here people are quite different. In Delaware, specifically more up by the city up north, in the Wilmington area, And to go down there, everybody, you know, yes, ma'am, yes, sir uh. You know, even children hold the door open for you when you're walking into a building.
It is that there are still places in the country like that. Not everybody is entitled. And the news and the social media will we'll put a magnifying glass on the people like that. But the fact is there's still plenty of really good people in the country. Yes, And but like like we were saying before, you know, just bring up like the if people do get together and they fight the government, let's just say, or when parents
get together and they fight the school wars. That's probably a really good example, you know. And they're doing a very positive thing. They're saying, Okay, we don't want this curriculum talk to our kids, and they have every right to do that. You know. What happens is the media rushes at them and paints them as extremists. And what it does is it again to that fear. It makes people fearful of being outed or docks or whatever the case may be, because they wanted to stand up for their child.
And I think that's because you had brought up the fear and I I and I do think that that's a weapon, particularly in those cases where they want to show people up. They want to make it parents afraid to go to school board meetings or afraid to go to the local, you know, town council meetings and say that, hey, we don't want this in our town or whatever the case is, because now they're going to be painted as extremists
or whatever. And I think that that's it's going to take a lot of really strong people who almost like they just don't care, if they don't care if they're threatened, and people are out there like that, I would think, I'm like that, I don't mind if I'm threatened. But but of course, you know, if it's my family's threatened, that's another thing.
And I don't put anything past the power of that be of course, But yeah, I mean, I do think people still have a lot of power, like you said, to ignore go about their life think, be with like minded people and fight. Be be picky about what you fight for, you know, pick the right battles, and be smart about it when you do it. And that's kind of all you can do, really approach it.
You know, be educated on the topic before you barge in, and and know what you're talking about, and put your best foot forward and just you know, try your best, try your best to fight the fight. I couldn't agree more. And this has been a great podcast. We've touched on a number of different things, and each and every one of them are are connected, and they all come back to the flat earth. And many
of the things we're talking about is control and fear and freedom. And to me, you know, and as we start to close here is that, you know, when I did realize that we weren't on a ball, that God was sitting right above us looking down as we talked about in Isaiah forty, it was very freeing. And I didn't you know that the Fox News and the News Max and all this other stuff. It didn't It wasn't important
to me anymore. You know, people will sit all day long and argue about which guy is the better guy, and at the end of the day. The best guy is is Jesus, and he's going to save is. If you're going to put your faith in a man, put it in yourself, right, put faith in yourself. Don't look to others to help you. But at the end of the day, realize that our time here on earth is just not even a drop in a bucket compared to eternity. And don't get wrapped up in the noise is really what I like to say.
Don't don't, don't buy the height, don't get wrapped up in the noise. Take care of your family, try to be a better person every day. And if you have conviction, like look at your family, mark where you are today. You have a great life and things worked out for you. And the same happened, you know for my wife and her career. She you know, she held her line and she went on to bigger and
better things because of her conviction. So and listen, not maybe not every story it happens that way, but I do think good things happen to good people. And if you live by your rules right, and I don't mean it in a selfish way, but if you live within your your your moral compass, you're going to be okay, because again, the people at the top of the food chain, they are I hope people understand by now and we're talking, you know, August of twenty twenty three, that they are
not looking out for your best interests, that's for sure. So it's it's been a wonderful podcast, and I can't thank you enough for your time, but I do want to give you, uh, you know, the final say here in this conversation. Yeah, I just wanted to say it again, thank you. I know you're kind enough to say it's it's both of us, it's everybody working together to make your podcast. But the bottom line is, I'm not spending the time creating a podcast that gets out to a
bunch of people, and you're you're putting in the footwork. I can't imagine that the amount of time and effort and follow ups, and you know, the days that don't work out, we don't get to hear any of that. You're just kind of doing what you do, and I'm looking forward to the next you know, a few weeks of podcasts. You put out so
many of them it's I feel like I can't catch up. So and I would tell anybody out there that you that you sticking up for what is right in the in the end is worth it, even if there's some blowback, and sometimes it's going to be blowback, and you just have to rest rest assured that if you're doing it for the right reason and sticking up for your beliefs, that in the end you'll have done done right by God. Amend to that, and thank you so much for being willing to come on and
share your story. And again to everyone who's listening, I know these stories resonate with everyone. Trust me, I know I get the email that the emails I read on these podcasts are less than one percent of the emails that I receive, the personal messages and everything else, they mean a lot to people. And thank you Mark for coming on and sharing your story. God bless you and your family and your future. And to everyone who supports the
podcast. You know, try to share it with your family and friends. There's going to be some I think, because this will be out Wednesday, right, Yeah, I think we have some exciting news coming up in the very near future, so stay tuned for that. We're always trying to make things better and more user friendly, so stay tuned for that. For Mark I'm George, God bless everyone. Keep your head on a swivel until the next time we meet. We will see you