Episode 83: Flat Earth Conversation with Bud

The following presentation isn't all Margaret Studios Production. Welcome back to with seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files. I hope this podcast finds everyone well. I hope everyone had a great weekend and you have a great week. We have a great guest who will be joining us in just a moment, Bud from Wisconsin. Before we bring him on, just a reminder, please do stop by the website, the flat

earth files dot com. Again, that's the flat earth Files dot com. Check out the twenty four seven streaming radio. Check out the chat room. Say hello. You can leave a message on our speedpipe system, or you can leave your questions and your thoughts in the form for everyone to a pine on. That is the flat earth files dot com. Questions, comments, concerns, or you'd like to join the podcast. Like Budd is this evening, reach out to us at the flat earth Files at gmail dot com.

Again, that's the flatter earth Files at gmail dot com. So there you go. Let's bring on our very special guest for the evening. His name is Bud. He's from the great state of Wisconsin. I had the pleasure of being on his daughter's podcast. I guess it was last week, and I'll put the links to that in the show description. If you'd like to check it out in her website, please help me. Welcome Bud, Bud. How are you doing a night, sir? Fantastic? It's it's nice

to meet you. And how did you find I'd like to ask you first, how did you find the podcast? I guess it was just looking at different podcasts at the time. I knew and understand about the flat Earth since about twenty thirteen fourteen fifteen. While in there, started studying it out, and then every so often I just look up new people with different podcasts in yours that the flat Earth Files hit me. I listened to it and was

hooked right away. That's outstanding. So you've been in the flat earth community for for almost ten years now, that's that's great stuff. Go ahead and kind of introduce yourself to the listeners a little bit about yourself, sir. First of all, when you say community, I do share it. I'm not afraid to share it the flat Earth. But I am not in any community, any conventions or anything like that. But anyways, my name is Bud. I'm working on my chipping away at seventy two years on this earth.

I've grew up with six Sibley siblings. My brother John uses the joke from my guess Rodney Dangerfield that we were so poor that we had to eat our breakfast cereal with a fork so the next person could have some milk. And we just grew up in a home actually that was very loving and a lot of laughter. I was raised Catholic, but my journey actually starts around the age of thirty six that I will be talking about. That's when I

met the love of my life, which is Judy. She came with a nine year old son from a previous marriage, and so I started with a family right away. After about a year of marriage, we had a daughter, and my prayer then was I did not want to force my religion nor my wife's religion on our daughter. My prayer was that we discover God,

or that she would discover God on her own. So with that being said, I started reading the Bible also at her very early age, and what I started to learn from the Bible actually took me away from the Catholic Church. So yes, that's my little saga or the introduction of my life. Prior to really studying and asking to learn truth. Now, had you always been kind of a critical thinker. There's there's a lot of folks who will take you know, if there's a guy in a lab coat, or if

there's a teacher that's saying something, they'll take it for wholesale. Or growing up through school and through life, were you always the one that had to kind of research things for yourself to get a definitive answer. I think I would be the latter. I've always investigated things. I did have a quest for knowledge. I would say not so much at that age because my grades didn't really show it, but I was. I was above average in class.

I was the instigator of a lot of things in our family. I would say that I've always questioned authority and questioned different things we were told or what to do. Now I was going to say this, Oh okay, No, you go ahead, sir, We're gonna say okay. This whole saga was initiated, as I said, by the birth of my daughter. I decided that I wanted to her to come to the truth. So as I was raised Catholic, my wife my wife was raised seven day Adventis.

We both practiced our faith and in doctrine and in action. However, when my daughter was born in nineteen eighty nine, rather than dictating herbill, I prayed and asked God for guidance that he would guide all of us to his truth. The more I prayed for my daughter, the more my family was exposed to biblical truth. The more I discovered. I also noticed on important things were being set aside, and little tangible blessings came to the forefront.

For example, you asked me earlier if I was a Packer fan back in nineteen ninety six. I I'm pretty sure it was when the Packers were well on their way to the Super Bowl. I happened to be watching my daughter while watching the game, and I noticed that she was just passing time, waiting for the game to be over for me to interact with her. And I thought, there's something going on here that's just not right, So I actually turned off the TV. I never watched the finish of that particular game.

And as they said, they were well on their way to the Super Bowl, and I went out, picked up some lumber and decided to build a playhouse for my daughter. The playhouse took a few would say weeks to build. So every time I had the inkling of either either watching a football game or anything that took my time away from the family, I decided I'd rather go and work on that playhouse. So we had a lot of fun

years in that playhouse. That playhouse went from a little place, a little two story house in front of our farm at the time, you know, Creek, Wisconsin. Who I put it on telephone poles with a little fence around it because we were blessed with a little farm at so we had horses, chickens, pigs, goats. When I say pig, just one pot belly pig that our son had as a pet. And we just lived our

life on this little farm. And I guess that particular, how would you say it says if you come nigh to Christ, he will come nigh to you. Well, that showed well in that particularly. I don't think I watched since nineteen ninety six a full football game since. Wow, that is something, and especially as we get older. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I just mentioned this earlier today to someone else. You know, the two resources that we never have enough of is money and time.

But as you get older, you more worry about time than money. It's it's it's incredible how fast the days go. As you get older and you want to leave, you want to do your best, at least I do. I always say I want to leave the world in better shape than than how I found it. And that was the monstra we used in the military. Whenever we fell on an outpost in Iraq, we always tried to make it better, so when whoever was relieving us would have a better place

than what we found it. And I think we should all take that and do with it with the world as well. We live in a world where governments claim that they own the land and we are simply renting it from them, and that's one of the real reasons why we can't even get to the

bottom of things like Antarctica with the Antarctic Treaty and things like that. So by getting back to what I was mentioning, that the factor of time, and you're right, you know, sitting there, you're watching a football game, and that's three hours of your life, and in some cases that's the entire afternoon and before you know it, it's it's gone. And you know as well as I how fast the children grow up, right, Amen to

that. In fact, I say how relative time is. When you're sixteen years old, you have to understand that a year is just one sixteenth of your life, which is quite a bit. Yep. When you're seventy years old, the year becomes one seventieth of your life, and it goes fast, It really goes fast. I also want to mention when I said my wife brought a son into the picture. My son, who's an outgrown has given us thirteen grandchildren, six grandchildren, and my daughter has given me two

grandchildren. So I have a total of eight grandchildren, which are just as precious as anything at this age as I can imagine. Oh, that's in I don't. Well, we have eight now, and we just found out about two months ago we got one more on the way that's due in January. So what have nine come the turn of the calendar. That's beautiful? Are what are their ages? From what to what? Well, from it'll be newborn and my oldest, Noel, she is twelve. Oh that's quite

a bit and that limited time. Yep. Absolutely well. To go on a little bit with my understanding or learning about God, one of the first people I came across and I actually interacted with him through conversations on the phone and stuff like that. Was a gentleman by the name of Kent Hogan. Oh sure, he had a creation seminar that As a Catholic, you always believed that you could believe in let's say, creation and evolution at the same

time. And Kent seemed to bring it to mind that no, that can't be and it's either one or the other, and you better get to know the God of creation. So I think I spent time learning more about creation and I started studying all the different aspects of creation, went more to the Bible. This is where I started incorporating fasting and prayer. I guess with my reading because I just realized that it was the way to go and I seemed to be getting answers. I'm going to say around two thousand and four

I actually had a night long of prayer. All I can say was I started to ask God. I read the Bible and I asked him a couple of times. It just really didn't do anything for me other than become a good historical book. I didn't get all the other aspects or the little nuances that one can get out of the Bible when you really read it in a prayerful manner. So as I was saying my prayer, it was I guess in a way, I say a little my little voice in my mind.

I don't think God actually, well, he might speak to some people, but in my situation, I found that it's just a thought that seems to come ahead of everything else, or that something you know you wouldn't have thought of on your own, but it seems to permeate your mind. So anyways,

through that particular prayer it said you have to ask for forgiveness. And as I said, raised Catholic and being in confessional most of my childhood, I got on my knees and spent the whole night remembering all my sins are dastardly deeds of yesteryear. And actually, when I got up off my knees the next morning, I felt physically lighter. It was just something I've never experienced before. I asked God, if that's what forgiveness feels like. It

was just an emotional, euphoric feeling that I really was forgiven. And that very next day in the morning, a letter came in the mail, and it was from a gentleman. His name was Bill Barrett. He since passed away, he did become a friend of the family, and I was told he used to study the Bible twenty five years prior with my wife. And he just sent out a letter saying he's been really finding little pearls of wisdom throughout the Bible, and he found it not a new way of studying.

I guess a lot of people have studied this way. There was a gentleman by the name of William Miller who was in the eighteen forty four movement that we might touch on also later, But anyways, he brought the mind. He says, if you want to learn how to study, or if you want to discuss studying the Bible, feel free to give me a call. So I immediately got on the phone because I actually told him what just happened to me the night before. I said, I got to tell you.

I just was on my knees asking God how I could understand the Bible better, and I told him he asked they I went to an all night long prayer and then this letter came through, and he's the first one that explained to me. He says, you know, God knew when you were going to be ready for truth. He knew when I would be ready to share. He said, this is no coincidence. He said, that's all prayer work. God knows well in advance when things like this is going to happen.

And for instance, I like to bring up, if I could, one of the things he taught of how to study the Bible was true the different let's say, stories of the Bible or the Let's see, what would you say, like, I'll give you an example of the parable of the woman with ten pieces of silver. I think that's in Luke fifteen, verse eight, where it says, and this is what you do to how the

study the Bible. You look up all the nouns, let's say, in a particular passage, and you bring it to the Bible, and you discern it by using the Bible how the Bible used it prior and in different situations in the Bible. For instance, that parabolo a woman that has ten pieces of silver, she loses one piece of silver. She lights a lantern, she sweeps the floor, she finds the lost piece of silver, and when

she finds it, she tells her friends and neighbored. Ye well, anyways, I'm going to work backwards with that so you get the full impact down that when she swept the floor, you got to find out, you know, she was removing dust. And of the dust, who is made of dust? In the Bible it is man. So you could say she was getting man out of the way, or man's interpretation of a particular thing out of the way. When you light a lantern in the Bible, you're usually

praying or asking for truth. Throughout the Bible, there's many passages say the light is the light of truth and so on. I mean, I can I have I've written about this in a study, and I give a lot of passages in the Bible where you can find things. Then well, then she lost a piece of silver, one of her coins or silver coins. And it says in the Psalm's twelve six, God says, my words are

like pieces of silver. And the fact that she gave ten of them, she had ten pieces of silver, what did God give us ten of you could say in his word? And I would venture to say that was the ten commandments? And a woman in let's say God's Church or God's people, represents just that. A woman. He says, my people are like a comely bride. My people are like a chase virgin his people, or a woman represents his people. So to paraphrase that particular let's say parable by using

the Bible as it's way of explaining it. That says God people or God's church has lost one of his commandments. They are going to pray for enlightenment. They're gonna sweeping at man's interpretation out of the way, and when they find that lost commandment, they will share it and rejoice with their neighbors. But the only commandment that was lost was the Sabbath. There was the Sabbath

commandment. We all know that there's many Christians that keep the Sunday commandment, and I as a seven daid venice, used to keep the Saturday Sabbath. But in our studies and what we have learned, and this will come in much later. Also, this is one of my prayers. We have discovered the lunar solar Sabbath which works with the luninaries of the sky luminaries and it's the first half moon, the full moon, the waning half moon, and the no moon are your sabbath after new moon day. And my prayer was

that it was the same Sabbath that Christ kept. So anyways, that was one of my prayers and one of them that was answered through the Bill Barrett type of way of studying the Bible. And you can do this with almost any parable in the Bible. Those little pearls of wisdom are buried for all of us to discern and to discover and to enjoy. And you just and you're using the Bible as its own. I would you say explanation for that

particular parable or that particular study. And can I interject with one question before we go forward? Do you think they manipulated the calendars to kind of interfere with the lunar Sabbath instead of thirteen months twenty eight days they do what they did now or do you think that's well, that's part of it. In fact, in Daniel, I think it's even twenty five. It says that the Antichrist will think to change times and laws, and when he changed times,

that's what he actually did by changing the calendar. Now, I don't know if they had that particular you could say thing in mind. They were also trying to achieve a three hundred and sixty five day year, but they did completely wipe out God's calendar, and I wrote a piece on that too. Also, I should do a little plug on ours. We have a little place called Family for Truth WordPress dot com, and I have about I'm going to say twenty to twenty five different studies that I have wrote that are

purely Biblity based. You can look up every verse that I used to come to my conclusion, and I think it teaches quite a bit. In fact, that's how I could say sort of walked away from the Catholic Church. In fact, I have a little, I guess a cute little story on that. Also, what ha happened was I came across the DVD. This was early in my trying to learn about God. I was raised Catholic,

so the DVD was the anti Christ of the Bible. So I started to watch it and I woke up the next morning sleeping in my chair, and I didn't know who the anti Christ was. I thought, Wow, that's strange. I usually don't fall asleep doing movies, especially if they're interesting or these studies like that, and I just thought, are very strange that it was kept for me. So I was working at the time. So the

next time, when I got off of work. I was going to put the DVD back in, and I wanted to find out Whodi Anti Christ was, or who was at least mentioned, And so I watched it again, and loan, behold, I fell asleep in the chair. And if you knew anything about me, I used to do twelve fourteen hours, maybe even sixteen hours a day work. I always was in my own business, so you know, coming home, and I mean, yes I could. I was always good for one movie or one DVD or learning something. But both

nights in a row I fell asleep. So now I'm thinking the Devil's things to me. There's just no way I'm falling asleep at that. So I started it halfway through this time, and I watched it, and I discovered that the Bible was saying that the anti Christ is not necessarily someone against God. It's someone in the position of God, and it's in the position of God on earth, and anti means in place of not so much against. And then when you discover that it's more rather than a particular person, it's

more of a position. And I'll come out and say it. I mean it came out and said it's the position of the pope. The pope is doing everything that God said he could. Only God can forgive sins. The pope is saying he bishops and cardinals and priests can forgive sins. Only God, I mean, you can only pray to God. And actually the Catholics, I don't know if they necessarily pray to the pope. T is God

on earth. And then all the other descriptions that happen to be that you can read in through Daniel from let's say Daniel too, all the way through Daniel eight and along with Revelation. The position of the pope just fits in there so nicely. I mean, there's over ten aspects of that particular study that you can come to the conclusion that it is the position of the pope that is the anti Christ of the Bible. And as you said before about

the calendar, he thinks that change times and laws. That's right, That was early study of mine. That's very interesting. Yeah, and somebody had mentioned before in one of my podcasts that, uh, one of the symbols of the pope, which I think is vicarious feely d d ei can also translate into six six six it does, Okay, that is one of the

one of the things that the Bible does bring on. Yeah, and it's interesting if if you look at Washington, DC and you look at all the Roman architecture, uh, and even on our dollar bills, the throwbacks to the Roman h the wording what what is it like? The Novus so clum, all that stuff goes back to to the Roman Empire. Right, I know what you're saying. I probably like us sometimes I don't remember all the stuff with the annunciation of it. But yes, I've read about a lot

of stuff. In fact, I know you come across the DVD you must have because I'm your fact hunter of Walter Fife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I've listened to everything he has probably put out in not so much as modern stuff, but let's say of about six to eight years ago and four and beyond that. He has a thing called the Total Onslaught. It's twenty eight DVDs that just walked through the Bible unreal. In fact, when I became an Adventice I was baptized into the Adventice Church.

I always want to call it a movement, but they used it since two thousand and six. And I then at that time, with what I was learning. I had Bible studies at the library. We had Bible studies at our home that went from twenty to fifty people. Wow. We brought in people from Australia that we would bring in a different that would bring in the message of God. We brought in people from California, all of which I

will share links, or at least my daughter will. And really have come across a lot of knowledge, and not so much new knowledge, but knowledge refinding note is in our history that a lot of the churches actually believed and so on. So very interesting stuff indeed, and I've got two Well, first of all, I should say Latin was that big word I was trying to think of. That's what happens when when the brain overheats. It's interesting

you mentioned Kent Hovin, because here's a guy. Say what you will about him. He walked, the walked. He was a guy number one. He didn't buy evolution and the Big Bang theory and these type of things. But he also it was a guy who realized that the government was a big problem. And I don't think he was a fan of taxes. And I think they actually set him down the river for I don't know how long, but you know, there's people who talk to talk, but he is someone

I don't know where he is today. I think he did hear an interview or a couple of interviews with him since he's been out, But it really wasn't He wasn't paying taxes. He had a lot of subcontractor's just like a lot of businesses hold to set up his business that way by his accountant. It's just that the government can do what they want to do him when they say no, they're not subcontractors, they're employees. That they said he had a lot of back taxes from employee taxes. Oh geez. That was sad.

And as you say, he did walk the walk. He was very interesting. He educated myself at least on evolution and creation. But I know that some people wrote him after when he did get out of his prisoner or whatever, and they talked to him about the flat earth, and he was a denier at the time, but that was a good I'm going to say four or five years ago. So I don't know where she's at right now, but there's a lot of people that were talking to him that really wanted

him to come on board with the so called flat Earth. Yeah, because there are a lot of people and if correct me, if I'm wrong. Ken Hooven was one of them who was a literal Bible person, like you should take it literally, but like so many other people, maybe well you know, maybe he just had a different take on the Book of Genesis. But for me, if we're going to do all that literally, then I go to not just Genesis one, but you can go to the Tower of

Babel and many other chapters with just within Genesis. If we're going to take things literally that go against the evolution, big bang theory, heliocentrism, et cetera. I agree in fact now that when I said I became an adventist and I started studying more, I started asking more, I started sharing more. But we talked earlier when he said, you draw an eye to God

and he will draw an eye to you. I think what's supposed to happen is as you read the Bible more and become more into Bible truth, those changes, like we talked about sports and different things we used to do, they just fall by the wayside and you don't realize it until all of a sudden, maybe you look back and say, you know, I'm not interested in that anymore. I'm not doing that anymore. But I found out God has a sense of humor if you ask for specific changes rather than let him

change you at his own. Let's say, will I used to be very impatient, and I just I started praying for patience. I said, God, I would like to see a miracle. I would like to see how that really can be transformative. And so, anyways, a cute little story I sometimes tell to family and friends is one day I was that we went to my post office box to pick up our mail and there was a letter in there saying you have a package for you. And at that particular time,

gas prices were high. And as I said, I'm not very patient. And as I walked to the front, there are about seven people in line, and that is a long line for me. So anyways, I decided I was thinking about it. Should I go on other errands or come back? And I says, ah, you're here. The price of the gas are ridiculous. How this can't be that long. Anyways, seven of the most neediest people that ever walked the face of the earth fire in front of me. I mean, I tell you, I sat through explanation of

explanation of just stupid things. So finally I got my turn up to the counter you could say what seemed to be an eternity to me, and then the person takes my ticket, runs in the back room and was gone for about another eight to ten minutes and then come back empty handed, and she

goes, I am sorry, this was put in the wrong box. And I have to tell you, I mean, rage started in my feet and just was working its way just I mean, I was just about to say something and that little what I told you is seems like a thought that comes to that should have never came at that time. Yeah, I said, you prayed for patience. What are you? How are you going to handle this? And I I thought, wow, he says, I thank the person for going back and check in. I says, that's all right.

Things happen like that, you know, And I went out. But I got to tell you. On my way to the car, my God and myself had a conversation and that is no way to teach patience, and that is no way. I said, that's actually very wrong. And I told him, if you think that's funny, that is just I think the ultimate way of I guess just keeping someone from blowing up like that. Anyways, it was just a little episode in my life that I realized, I'm not

going to pray for the changes I want. I'm going to let God do the change he sees fit me and when to do them, when and how he wants to do them. Because it was, just, as I said, a funny little episode that I don't know where those thoughts come from, but it was just one of those things like how are you going to handle this? So, yeah, that's a great story. And we all have our challenges and shortcomings, and patience is up there on my list as well.

My wife could attest to that, and that's something that we work on as we get older as well, on on our shortcomings and it can be dealing listen, but especially with some of the folks today that are out there, it can be a bit of a test. But I'd like to think as well that I've become a little bit more of a patient person than I might have been even ten years ago. So here's the growing and praying and

to just trying to be a better person every day into that. Well, I'd just like to talk about one more message we received in truth and then I'll probably get into the flat earth part of it. Absolutely. One night I prayed and as I was kneeling, I just said to God, I said, I'm very sorry. I do not know how to pray to the Holy Spirit. And at that time I says God, the Holy Spirit, and it was just a prayer, just the little thing. I went off.

Well. The next day, in fact, I found out you even come across this individual, a friend of mine by the name of Dean. I hear he has written you a couple of times in some emails, and I know you read them over your should because I have heard him, Yes, sir. But anyways, he's a friend of ours. He's a truth seeker, a very nice gentleman. He brought me a DVD and he just said, Budge, you won't believe what you're going to see on this. And I said, well, what is about? He says, we have

to watch it as a group and we should study it. So we did just that we first, but before watching it, I had other He said, it's on the Holy Spirit. So I had other DVDs that I used to watch, and I spent I'm going to say a good sixteen hours of watching different DVDs on the Godhead, the Trinity and the Holy Spirit and whatnot. So I wanted to be loaded with Bible verses and let's say what I

thought were my beliefs. But this particular DVD brought up the concept of a father and Son and that there is no such thing written in the Bible as a trinity, and the Spirit of God is just that, the Spirit of God. It's not God, the Holy Spirit. And you will no place in the Bible find the words God the Holy Spirit. So anyways, we started studying that out as a group, and that's where I met these people from Australia and the gentleman from California, and I'll put their links in also,

And it's called the Father and Son message. And really, if you read from John fourteen, let's say, through seventeen, which is the prayer of Jesus Christ just before I would say, one of his last prayers on earth. And if you really read through first John, all five or four or five chapters of it, you really come to know and understand that it is just that many times Jesus will say he's begotten of the Father, he was sent by the Father. And if you're a trinitarian, you have to

you're sort of believing that Jesus is a second person of a trinity. And the people that write about it say that you're they took on roll that God the Father wasn't the father. I mean, if he doesn't have a son up there, then he's not the father. I mean just of his creation, but that that Jesus was the second person of the trinity, and he more or less raised his hand and said I'll play the son, and that

they think it's more metaphorically speaking that Jesus is the son of God. Where if you read the Bible, and as we studied the Bible, Jesus is a literal son of God. And it says when it says God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus, the Father had to have a son to send. So I think the father and son message sort of destroys, I shouldn't say, sort of destroys the concept of the

trinity and the spirit that you're praying for. Like in Galatians four six it says the Father gives you the spirit of his son, so you can call him father. It's the spirit of Christ that lives through us, and that's the spirit you're praying for when you're praying for the Holy Spirit to be in

you. And throughout Jesus's prayer, he's saying things like Father makes us them one as we are one, so as we come to know that truth, we will become one with Christ. And throughout like in John seventeen three, it says, this is life eternal, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. So throughout the Bible, when you really read with a discerned mind, I would say you will find a father and son message and how they try to save their

creation. And along with that I also have studies on that in my family for truth. But then as we continue, when you wanted to know the flat earth episode, well, I have to comment on this because you want to talk about how things work. I was a guest Friday night on a

podcast with Big Country. He was on my podcast back in March or April, and he asked me, have I ever heard of a guy by the name of Austin wits It I think his name is, and he's a flat earth But he also did a five hour podcast on it was the first, because we just accept the Trinity or the Godhead as it's known, right, the Father Son, and Holy Spirit. And I had never questioned it, and I'm about halfway through it, and that's the first I've really ever heard

anybody mentioned it or questioned it. And these things. It's almost it was almost like flat Earth all over again. You're like, wait a second,

this is what I was taught ever since I was a young man. And it was funny because as you were talking, I was perusing your website, your your Family for Truth dot WordPress dot com and Bud's corner, and I see the Godhead and the eleven articles there, and that is interesting, and there's a lot of things that organized religion, and that's what I wanted to ask you one last question before we jumped into flat Earth, where organized religion

doesn't always mesh up completely with the Bible, and that's just do you consider that the biggest issue with the organized religion aside from flat Earth or do you think there's other issues that you'll deal with as well and as a whole, what's your what's your take on organized religion? I should ask that well, I guess, to put it bluntly, what we do now is we have

a church home. We definitely, I mean we're not very large. We have blossom up to like when I had speakers come in, people come from all over the state, and we had had the room filled to a little over one hundred and fifty people to come and listen to different speakers. We have wow. In fact, the next thing we're going to have in September and we are going to have a gentleman by the name of Troy Miller come

and speak to us on the lunar solar Sabbath. In fact, some of the people, even in our group, don't believe right now in the lunar solar Sabbath. They think it's too strange, too far fetched. But when you really study what the Bible says about how God put the luminaries in the sky for just that reason to keep his mod which is his feast days. And the first feast day he had was the Sabbath. And I could even

run you through a story from that. In fact, if you look on my family for truth, the one that says Eloheam's established epoch, that particular one I run you through. And I have to say, of all the writings that i've wrote. My daughter has always getting on my case saying, why don't you make an outline first so you have your thoughts condensed so you

can express yourself better. And it's just not me. As I was writing that particular paper, versus were coming to me that I never I mean, parts of them, I've heard them before, but I never put them with that particular usage. And as I was reading them, they were becoming you could say, explanations for my paper, and it was I really feel that particular message was God sent. In fact, there's a particular part of that message where it says in the beginning or it says the morning evening in the

morning were the first day. While first of all, evening means just that the word yahm in Hebrew means under the heat of the day or the light of the day. So the evening in the morning or the yeah, we're the first day. Evening was from twelve noon to sunset, because the evening sacrifice was around three o'clock. The morning was from sunrise to twelve noon. So when God says the evening in the morning, we're the first day, he was just talking about the daylight hours. In fact, in John I

think it's John nine or eleven. Oh, I'll have to look that up. But anyways, Jesus says, everyone knows there's twelve hours in the day, so we were told, but everybody believes that as saying the evening it was nighttime. Well, God called the darkness night. He did not call the darkness evening. So I stressed that in that particular writing. And the other thing that came to mind in that word, there's a word and there we were the first day. Well, that word in Hebrew is haya.

That's also used elsewhere in the Bible. Because of the studies I told you I used. Where you look up words in the Bible, that word is also used by follow. So that statement could have been interpreted the evening in the morning followed the first day, or as they have they have it were the first day. Now, I'm not trying to change the Bible, but in my writing, I say, I go on to say, that's how God, with his infinite wisdom, can be both correct with both statements.

And you wonder how that happens. Is now, I don't have the book in me where it says in the beginning God created the light and he called the light day. That was before he created anything else. So what's the first thing God created? Was a date? Well, one could go on to say that was new moon day because before he starts creating. So when you go through and stay, let's say the first day of the week, it says the evening in the morning were the first day, it was that

or followed the first day. It followed the first day of the month. But it was the first day of the week. If that makes sense that people do. So when you read throughout, when you say the evening in the morning were it could be the evening in the morning following. Because the Holli Hebrew reckoned her Bible, they had new moon Day. Then their week started with the next day of the month. So the second day of the

month was the first day of the week. And then when you get to the very end where it says and he created all this, or it says I think in chapter two had arrested on the seventh day, and he oh, God finish his work on the seventh day, and he rested on the seventh day. That's two things. If you say God finished his work on the seventh day, then we have I would you say an injustice here because they would kill people for working on the seventh So God cannot rest from his

work on the seventh day. So I ventured to say that they had two seventh days. It was the seventh day of the month, but the eighth day of the month became the seventh day of the week. And that's why God could call it the seventh day, because now he was ending his week.

But if you go to the Septurgen, which is the Greek version of that Bible, and it was, you know, translated back in the days before Christ, they say God ended his work on the sixth day, and they're talking about the same situation because those were Greek people who knew Hebrew and were trying to explain it. Let's say to the Greek people on the earth of that time, so they could understand what was meant in the Bible when it said God finished his work on the seventh day, it was really God

finished his work the sixth day of the week. But he did finish his work the seventh day of the month, and then he blessed the seven of the week because it became a week because God declared it a week. And I hope I made sense with all this. But if you read some of my studies, I go on to explain how an only God can use the word ayah which means followed and were and make truth out of it in the same sentence while saying the same word exactly. Really well to think about.

It's just gonna say, it's really well done. And the article I'll link that as well. It's Elohim's established epic, right, Yes, yeah, I'll link that as well. It's got all the links, and you cite all the verses as well to support your evidence, and you even delve into Strong's concordance for some of the links as well. But I also want to

comment on what your comment when you said about the father and son. From when I first met Bill Barrett and he told me how prayer works and how God works, this is almost there's no such thing as a coincidence with our father in heaven. The fact that you probably heard it, the fact that I'm reiterating it about the father and son, and the fact you're probably now It's just like when you buy a certain car, you see that car all all over the road, and you you know that happens with the father and

son message. Once you heard it, you're going to find out there's a lot of people out there that know it and understand it and studied it, and there's speakers that are so well versed on it that they're gonna blow your mind with just what they say. And the point you brought up earlier also because when you first hear most of your so called truths are when you are young. They're usually, how would you say, traditions handed down from generation

to generation, just like what we say about the flat earth. Same thing with the God had the fact that the Trinity is all that anybody talks about, but it's not what I said. You can read that into the Bible by changing God's words and thoughts, but you cannot read Trinity out from the Bible by interpreting God at what he meant to say. So it's an interesting study, interesting concept. But as I said, we are learning so much so fast that all I can say is praise the Lord. He has been

blessing us with a lot of things. In fact, with this lunar solar that I'm was telling you about what happened with that particular one, I many times fast and pray when I do my writings or when I'm trying to get to know a concept that God is teaching me from the Bible. And one particular time, I was just happ having walking up our stairs in our house, and I just questioned God, I says, God, what's wrong between us? I said, I'm not getting these little bits of information that I've

been just receiving. Not that I have to have a new thing every day, but you kind of know when you're just reading the Bible and it's coming to you and you're grasping it and it's making a lot of sense. And I just was feeling a little ostracides. I guess. Anyways, a thought came to mind. That's how it always is. He goes, I asked you to study the Lunar Sabbath. And my retort to him and in my

mind, this is all going on in my mind. In fact, you could say Dean was part of this and our group of people that get together and study. I said, God, you know, we studied it. I brought it to the group, We looked into it. I says, you have people, And I named him off like this. I met Audie, this Nadder Mensur, this Daniel Mesa. These are all. I mean, these are Bible scholars. If you look up any of their programs, you're going to see them just go off on studies that are Wow, where

did they get this from? They have to be inspired, you know that type of stuff. Anyways, I said, none of those, all those convinced me that it's the Saturday, that it's the Saturday we've been keeping. And then another thought just and it was emphasized, he was, I asked you to study the lunar Sabbath. And I thought, whoa, I said, and right away, this is my retort to God. This is all my mind have. I got to grant you. This is not I'm heavy.

I'm not talking out loud in my house since they and I just said, I said, I don't care what day it is. I said, I don't have a horse in this race. I said, all I want is to keep the same Sabbath Christ kept when he was on this earth. That's all I want. And my studies, I'm not knu those particular studies have gone from I'm going to say, forty papers, some of them fifty sixty sheets long, that write both pro and con of the lunar solar Sabbath,

that I mean there's encyclopedias that stayed both sides of the fact. And I mean, I'm just going through this, going watching DVDs, reading articles, looking up encyclopedias, reading from Josephus. I mean, you you name it, the all the outside sources and the Bible itself, and I just really couldn't draw a conclusion. Tearfully, I went to God and in a prayer, and that's when I said, I wanted to keep just the sabbathat

Christ kept. And right after that, I'm not getting you. You could say a flood of information came to be more or less stating that new Moon Day was a particular day. God created three days. When he created days, he created new moon days, work days, and the Sabbath, and that's those are the days, and that's how they actually fall. You have new moon days, that's one entity the gods. The doors of the temple were open. Then you had six work days when the doors were closed,

and then you had Sabbath day. And just to give you an example, when you really when you can figure out what the days of the week that the Sabbath fell on the actual number day, you will find out that it always fell on the eighth, the fifteenth to twenty second, or the twenty ninth, And the only way can fall on the eighth, as if you have New Moonday on the first, if you're taken the Battle of Jericho, when they marched around the city for seven days, what day would have been

the sabbath that they were in war paraphernalia, you know, But if they got there on New Moonday, And if you go to the Book of Jasher, it says just that. Now one might say, how can you use the Book of Jasher when you're talking about the Bible. The Book of Joshua

itself uses the Book of Jasher and explaining another situation that happened there. So in the Book of Jasher it says they came upon the city the first day of the second the first day of the second month, which would have allowed them to march around the city for seven days, and on the eighth day of the month, which would have been their sabbath, they would have been

able to keep the sabbath with the Lord. So there's little situations like that throughout the Bible that actually speak towards it and make it very interesting to find out those little type of facts. Yeah, that's interesting, Joshua ten thirteen. And once again, if we are going to take the Bible literally, if the sun stopped, that would mean everything stopped and people would be floating away right into outer space. That kind of kills the whole gravity thing.

But there's a lot of people out there that still demand science. Something I mentioned in an interview earlier today, there's going to be people out there which kind of talking about flat Earth here is there's been many, many experience experiments excuse me, that show we can see too far, and for many people in the truth community or in the flat earth world, that is their biggest smoking gun to say we do live on a flat plane that we can simply

see too far. There are people out there that you can show in these things, and even if we had permission, you could fly him to Antarctica, and even if we could see the firmament that they may still not believe. Like you said earlier in the very beginning of the podcast, people have to be willing to accept the message even to that. But also I pray for our elected officials, and whether they're on my side or against me, I just pray for everyone, because some of you know, are just captured

by Satan and some you know are need our help and our prayers. Anyways, But anyways, believe it or not, it was Barack Obama that brought me to the flat earth. I just happened to be listening to one of his speeches, and I only I don't listen to the whole thing. I usually catch him on YouTube and stuff like that. But at one of his speeches, I think it was around twenty twenty thirteen someplace in there, he

used, you know, they should be flat earth. There's in a derogatory sense, and I just remember hearing that speech, and I then when as I went to bed, then I said, who can be a flat earth in today? And why would they even bring why would anybody have conversation about a flat earth in today's you know, realm whatever. So anyways, I looked it up and the first person I happened to come across was Eric Dubaying and watching his stuff. It was like, very interesting. I thought,

hey, minute, this makes a little bit of sense here. Yeah, I said, who are these people? So anyways, like everybody else, I hear it constantly where someone says, oh when they heard it, it does It consumes about two months of your life, watching everything you can, reading everything you can. I've read what this particular book this guy is the Bible from God or something like that. Is the Earth the globe? I mean it's a it's a book back in eighteen ninety three or something like that.

The guy who made the map, the Gleeson. Yeah, it's his book, and I read that. And I've read other books. I have the book the Sixteen Landings, you know, emergency landings, all this type of stuff, But that came much later. I bought those books only to show other people of what I've learned. But I I mean I was listening to Who's at Skiba who since passed away, and many other people, and just a lot of things like that. So as I said, I was,

I was one of those convinced. Although I was watching it for about two months. I was just how would you say adding to the evidence? Because I was turned. I would say within a week that the earth is not a globe. In fact, one of the things you always asked many times you're the people as you interview them, you know, like what is

your favorite way of looking at it? And so on? Now mine actually should be a visual but I'll try and talk to you through it, which is which is what A good example like Togo, Africa and Guyana, South America are approximately four thousand miles apart, okay, they're very close to the equator. So when the sun is overhead on Togo at twelve noon, the

sun goes from east to west. So now when it becomes one o'clock, the sun has actually traveled approximately one thousand miles and covered a fifteen degree arc. So now when it gets to two o'clock, it covered another's fifteen degree arc, which makes it thirty degrees now and it's traveled two thousand miles, okay, So that means the arc that you have left from that when the

sun was right above you is a sixty degree arc. Okay. Now, when you're in Guyana and you're looking at the sun coming towards you at ten o'clock in the morning, it is approximately two thousand miles from you. So when Guyana sun is at ten o'clock in the morning, it is two o'clock in the afternoon at Togo. So if you can picture this in your mind, so as the sun's coming towards you, now it's eleven o'clock, you're

in Guyana, it's a fifteen degree arc. It travels and it's and then when it gets to eleven o'clock, now it traveled that thirty degree arcs. So what's left on the ground, or let's say you looking at it, is another sixty degree arc. So the person in Togo has seen the sun at a sixty degree arc away from them, the person in Guyana has seen the arc at a sixty degree at ten o'clock in the morning coming towards them, and they are four thousand miles apart. Well, everybody that knows anything

about geometry, a triang only has one hundred and eighty degrees. If you know two degrees are sixty, you know the third angle of sixty. And if you know one side is four thousand miles, the other two sides have to be four thousand miles. So when you take the height of a triangle, so if you can figure that out, that means the height of the

Sun can't be much more than thirty four hundred miles away from us. And from that particular distance that you can obtain through geometry, which is real science, that you can figure out the width of the sun, and that has to be I would say anywhere between thirty two and thirty five miles, so both the sun and the moon are approximately just that, I would say anywhere from about thirty four hundred to thirty eight hundred miles away from us, and

maybe thirty two to thirty five miles in diameter. And that see, it's more and that's a given. I mean anything that people try to prove with an experiment has failed when they tried to prove the earth moving. But you can prove everything. And as you said, I did buy one of those guns. I checked the shadow of the moon and the shadow of the sun in the shade, and yes, that all turns out whenever I drive up on the top either mountain or something that I'm always taking pictures, and yes,

you can see from miles and miles of flatness. And then when you open a plane and taking off same thing. You see what they say where you can tell the world and all your senses actually do tell us the truth. But because we were informed just about like anything as a youth, and these were from people we respected, and if they say so, it has to be so. And we've been teaching that to our children, but not my grandchildren. There you go and that's really and is this something that you

came up with, the Togo to Guyana. Yes, that's really interesting because looking at it on a map, they are just about almost exactly the same latitude. And yeah, it's about what miles from Togo to Guyana. Yes, yeah, that is really really interesting that that is another tool in the two box for everyone who's a flat earther. So and as I said, God has actually God has made it very simple for if we just take him at his word and not read into his word, but just read his word.

There's just different studies. Like I'll give an example right now, I'm trying to do a study of the Nephilum. But when you do it, if you take God at his word, and I many times like to use different translations of the Bible because it sometimes some just make it more clear than others. I'll give you for instance, like with the Nephilum, it starts out if you read d NIV. And I know a lot of people say,

well not d n IV. But rather than say God was looking at man, it says God was looking at humans or you know it, it not only pluralizes it if there's such a word, but at all. He is also saying he's looking at his creation, and Nephilim is just the word

that means giants. And according to the Bible, I guess the people that were staying truer to God, or that stayed in the the One God movement, the God of Creation, were kind of of Seth line and they were just taller, larger human beings, the ones that seemed to come out of Canes lineage. Maybe because they were producing so fast, human beings were getting smaller. They were becoming more like the smaller human beings are not quite the big giants. And so it is just that it's I don't think it's the

angels that came and tried to pregnate the human race. Because God is a god of I would just say organization. Throughout the Bible, he says, you've got to come of your kind. So why would he make another entity that could impregnate his human race if they happened to, let's say, fall and create another being. I know in the Book of Enoch that goes on to explain it rather well, but it's I don't think it's the proper explanation. And I just feel that at least that's what I'm meaning to it.

Right now. I shouldn't say it's a it's a conviction at this time, but when I started to read it and read it as it is stated, it is just that. And once you're a fallen angel, you're no longer considered a son of God. Even when they talk about like when all the fall, when all the angels were in having would you say a meeting with God, Satan happened to walk by, They didn't say Satan the son of God. They said, and Satan came by, and God asked him,

where'd you come from? And he says, from the earth, going to and fro. And it's just that, once you are fallen, you are no longer a son of God. So therefore when it says the son of God went into the daughters of men, they're talking just that. And in the New Testament they actually explain anybody that's the son of God is anybody that is led by the spirit. So if you're led by the spirit of God, you you could say our God's son. Therefore you're a son of God.

But I think they're strictly humans. They just to be large humans. Gotcha, well, said, let's get to now that you you you said it took you about a week to realize that her, for lack of better words, to become a flat earth. How did it change your life? Oh? That was that changed everything? Because you know when they lie about that, anything's on the table, anything and everything's on the table. R I always from the moment Kennedy was assassinated, I was about in seventh grade

when it happened, or eighth grade, I can't remember. But anyways, we always knew it wasn't Oswald. I mean even as a young kid and as you got into college or I have different friends that went through different places. In fact, when college, professor I think at Steven's point really amassed a lot of information on that and would explain it or say it to different students there, and my friend would share it with me. So we always believe. But you always thought that it was just a few bad apples,

maybe some rogue CIA agent or stuff like that. But when you realize that everything they do, when you find out about like NASA and how they started that and how they continue it and what it's doing, and I know many times people said that particular lie has to be the lie of lies, because not only are they doing it every day, they're spending the money on it every day. They're still force feeding it to us. And they just pick

up their pictures they're so called CGI pictures and everything. They just add to it the more we get closer to them. So yes, it's a it changes. You're outlooking the way. First of all, I've been coming closer to God as I was reading the Bible. Just just allowed me to look up. You could say thee hundred and twenty verses that are in the Bible that very much speak of the flat Earth. I can say it with how would you say confidence? As I speak about it, sometimes I can express

myself. And sometimes someone will walk away at least scratching their head and saying, yeah, he's not as not as far fetched as it seems, and they might go and check it out. And sometimes I know there's people rolling their eyes. I had a comment back from a friend I met. My sister has a friend who just got married, and I was talking to him. He's a Bible believing individual and our conversation, after a long Bible discussion through me, has come to the fat flat earth and or our stationary realm,

as some said, and he I got feedback from my sister. She goes, you know, he sounds like an intelligent individual. But I'll tell you when he brought up the flat earth, it just threw everything else out of the Yeah you hear that. Oh I got that all the time on my other podcast, whenever I brought it up. You sound like a smart guy, but you mentioned flat earth and I was done. Anyways, the truth is going to come out. We are all at different how would you

say, levels of our education where we are with truth? Yeah, different paths in our journey to the truth, yes, sir. Right. In fact, I don't know if you know, but they say things. Everything is said differently, like I don't know if you know. There's a movement says like when you say do you understand, that's really saying you are standing under me? So you know, stuff like that, or even warfare,

is that fair war? Meaning that the devil has to declare everything he's going to do, and he does that through Hollywood, and God actually declares everything he's going to do, and he did that through his prophets. In fact, that's why I'm on a realm of There's a woman by the name of Ellen white, and I think if you read her writings, you would come to the conclusion she's a prophet also if you read about her from other people. Just like the prophets of old, they hated the prophets. They killed

the prophets. I mean, the little parabol about God with the guy with the vineyard. He sends first his servants, but then he sends his son and they kill his son. Well, those were supposed to be all prophets that were sent beforehand, and they just always didn't listen to him kill them and so on. But the Bible itself speaks of prophets. And I don't know if I can get this all right. When Enoch was born, that's when he had a son named Methuselah. And Methuselah's name means when he dies,

it will come. And that was speaking of the flood. Methuselah passed away and the flood came. But before the flood came, you have, let's say, a prophet talking about the flood, and then you have Noah declaring the flood is eminent, and you have that throughout the Bible. You have Abraham talking about his people are going to go into exile. Then you have a prophet when it happens, saying this is it, this is why

we were in exile. In the form of day Daniel also gives a profit of a seventy week profit and a twenty three hundred day profit, of which I could touch on also if you want to. But the seventy week profit was when Christ was going to be on this earth. While the prophet declares it there, also he has to be a prophet to bring it in, and that was John the Baptist. So John the Baptist brings in that particular

profit and tells you this is the Son of God and so on. But the twenty three hundred year prophecy, now that prophecy didn't come until about eighteen forty four. Now I can explain to you where that is in the Bible and how that was so mishandled. But you have to have a profit issuing in that declaration, which was Ellen White at that time in eighteen forty four, she was about a seventeen year old girl that started to have visions.

But her writings are just phenomenal and fabulous. But that eighteen forty four mission, I will go on to say, is I think it's not a guy. Put my mind. I think he's Revelations ten nine. I should be looking at myself. Now you're talking about the Miller and William Miller, right right. But the reason I wanted to bring that up was that go to I'm going to quick grad to go there. Let's see Revelation ten nine. Okay, and see, First of all, you got to understand what they

knew and what they thought they knew. Back then, most Bible scholars believed the Sanctuary was the earth. When it said the sanctuary would be cleansed, they thought that meant the second coming of Christ. But here in verse ten nine, it says, and I went unto the angel and said, unto him, give me the little book. Now I feel they're talking about the same little book in Daniel that he had to close up, and the closed it up for twenty three hundred years. He says, take it and eat

it up. Eat it up, and it shall be in thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. So when he started having this, let's say, Revelation, and he thought the sanctuary was the earth, it was like honey in his mouth. I mean, people were coming to the Lord. People were going to those conferences whatever, or those gatherings and just eating it up and coming to the Lord thinking, Wow, this is going to happen. When it didn't happen, that's what came

bitter to the stomach. And when they were like, what did we do wrong? How were we so wrong? God? We thought you gave us this message? And then they realized that it wasn't the sanctuary on earth. Christ was going to the sanctuary in Heaven and beginning and beginning the judgment basis. So I'm saying that that particular stands or verse and revelation that is ten nine, that is the year eighteen forty four where they were studying. It

tasted like hunting their mouth. They thought they had truth. Everything is working out perfect, everybody was coming to the Lord. When they actually swallowed it and realized Christ's income, it was like, what did we do wrong? But the true Bible believers and knowing that God would not leave them, let's say, without hope or without truth, they started questioning, what did we

do wrong? We're studying your word, We're taking this out of the Book of Daniel, we're reading the prophecy as it reads the twenty three end of Year prophecy, and none of it's right. And then they realized that there's a sanctuary in heaven, and the cleansing of the sanctuary was not the sanctuary on earth. It was the sanctuary in heaven. Jesus Christ went from the Holy to the Holy of Holies and is now in front of the Father on our behalf, and judgment is actually taking place, and I try, I

think we're not long for this earth. It is all being judged right now. So when they come, they will know who is theirs and who's not, who's sealed and who's not. There still trials to be had, because Satan knows his time is short. And it's interesting stuff. Again, it's another study. It's it's a study that I wasn't there at the time.

I'm interpreting some things, like I honestly believe the beginning of the Seventh Day adventice movement, and I know Dean explained that to you was was supposed to be a movement. They wanted to stay so far from religion, and the more I'm finding about the churches. In fact, I don't know if you know it because of my beliefs, and that I came to the Father and Son message. I was asked not to, let's say, speak anymore at the Seven day Adventist Church, of which I did, but not so much

to speak was I was asked to leave the Seventh day adventished. But with that this fellowship I came across versus like, if you go to verse here, I'll read you. Here's a good one, John sixteen three, which this hit me right after or right before when we were study it. It says, I'll just read from two from one on. I think it goes down to it says, these things that I have spoken unto you, that you should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues.

I'm gonna you could say, church, yea, the time cometh that whoever killeth you will think that he doeth God's service. And it goes on to say, and these things they do unto you because they have not known the

Father nor me that Jesus Christ speaking. So a lot of people that are going to put you down, it's only because they do not have the true message of the Father and Son. And when you read this and you know you actually went through it, it's like God, thank you, thank you for allowing me to be one of your let's say, nd time people spreading your word, sharing your word, trying to share truth. I'm doing a lot of these studies. In fact, it was funny because you met my

daughter already by her podcast. But what was funny there was we had this father and son message and she's newly married. Well now it's about seven years. But anyways, when she was newly married her husband, we were coming

into this message of the father and son. And he also is an adventist and his family lives in Tennessee, and they think he married into an occult now because everything the old man says in the house is becoming truth, you know, and that's me anyways, my daughter, so they think, you know, they got trying to get their son out of this commune here, which we call an intentional community. But anyway, the point I was getting at was they are very how would you say, strong minded people. They

study it on their own. There's no convincing in our household at all. If you come up with a concept or something you studied or something you're questioning, you you can bring it out to buddy. Everybody studies it. Everybody comes back with their own conclusions and we see how and what bears out. But anyways, one time they were driving away and I think that's what I came running out of the house. They said, yeah, And as they're

driving away they get this from their dad. I said, Oh, not only is the father and son message, I said, but the earth we live on is flat. And now they're driving away and I know they rolled their eyes out. Is this guy losing it? You know? And so they came back home. They studied it out, and they watched maybe some of the same DVDs, read some of the same things, and they are of the same elk. No, that's good, especially when people they figure

it out on their own. And that's why I'm of the mantra where I'd like to leave bread crumbs and I've learned. I've mentioned it at nauseam, you know, being excited when I first found it, and I wanted to share the great news with everybody that we've been lied to, and it's it's

not an easy pill for people to swallow because of all the psychology. The matrix, like I've said before, is is cleverly created from having globes and everything you watch and TV and the movies, and in your every classroom in school, to the little jokes like you said, Obama, those silly flat earth society people. This is one of the most carefully crafted deceptions in the history of the world. And the question we get all the time is why

would people go to such great lengths to do this great deception? And it's not about money, because with our Federal Reserve, they just print more of it if they want it. It's about deception. It's about Satan hiding God's creation because flatterth to me, it brought me closer to God. I get emails all the time saying the same with others, and they learned. People learned to read the Bible in a whole different way. And I'm sure that

resonates with you as well, oh very much well. In fact, when you say that, not only did Satan use that deception of God's creation, but he his deception is of God itself. That's actually how I almost say I was a very strong you suld say, up until the age of eighteen, I don't think I ever missed a Sunday church service or a service of

let's say, Mass, and so on. As I got older, I was growing away from it because I couldn't understand how a loving God, a forgiving God, could let's say, put someone on this earth for approximately sixteen years, and let's say he became a gang member or something just something that just caused trouble, didn't live in let's say graces of God. Let's say the young kid pass away and he burns for eternity. I feel there's nothing loving, gracious, just about a God like that that would do that.

Well. When I came into that study, you could say of hell, and hell does not burn forever. The effects of hell are forever, meaning yes, there's some people that are going to be in hell for the second death, but they will be burnt up. Throughout the Bible says there will be ashes under our feet, there will be no longer. And John three sixteen even says in seventeen where it says, and you have everlasting life if you believe in Jesus Christ. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you

don't have everlasting life. If you don't have everlasting life, how can you ever last burn a lifetime in hell? Throughout the Bible, they use words like forever burning or forever. It just means that fire will not be extinguished until the effects of it are over, because how can anybody living in the earth made new where no tear will fall or anything like that, knowing that they might have had a loved one that's burning someplace and screaming and that.

So there's different studies that are out there that again I wrote up out and that really explained what hell so saying really distorted what God and who God is. And that's why when Christ came to this earth he said everything I say. He said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, and you have seen the Father through me, and the Father and I are one and the Father Jesus Christ is the only being you could say that

was given everlasting life because he's the literal begotten son of God. And you can read that in Proverbs I think twenty eight, I guess verse twenty two on. So anyways, there's there's many studies out there that when you actually try to get to know God of the Bible from your own vantage point and your own viewpoint as opposed to what you've been told, there is one God and that one God had a son and sent his son on behalf of all of us for our salvation. And the Son was the Word, and that's

how creation was. You could say, that's why he say everything was created by the Father through the Son. The Son was the Word. How that is or how that becomes about, I don't know. But the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And so everything was created through Christ or Christ by the Father. And that's the that's the God that's written about in the Bible. And that's the God I discovered, and the God I grew closer to and am growing closer to because of all the messages out there. The

flat earst message, as you say, just brought you closer. It was like everything you send the Bible, now I can stand on that. Also, I can say the sun stood still. I can say there's four corners of the Earth. I can say where it says the earth is, the foundations of the earth don't move. You know, you can say stuff like that and mean it and show it and understand it and along with science, explain it sane, well said, and you know it's funny. Two things

I wanted to mention. You could ask ten people to read a verse or a chapter of the Bible and then come back and ask them what it meant to them, and you could get ten different answers. That is very true. But that's why it says I hear a little there, a little, a little, you know. That's right. There's a verse I don't remember, but when you do, when you put it all together, that's the

same thing about hell. When you when I declare that Hell doesn't burn forever, there's about I'm going to say seven verses that state that your salvation is eternal. Yea, that doesn't mean you're being getting salvation every date. All that type of stuff. They used the same words, we use the same vernacular. I stood in line all day at this store. That doesn't mean you're you know, or I stood in line forever you know, and you're still standing in line. That's the vernacular of the kind. But yeah,

there's h I would say. When I started praying for discernment with the Bible and ask God for not only his forgiveness but to enlighten me, there's things that opened up that just when you say organized religions, it's harder to get with any one of them, because they all have they based their how would you say denomination their beliefs, and if their beliefs are against any one of these, you're kind of shunned. There's a lot of these Bible churches that

are out there, non denominational, which I like. They claim they like Bible study, but I guess when I show up with my Bible, the claim runs out the door. You know what I've learned if your thoughts interfere with Here's something we don't talk about enough is traditions within the church. That's when they don't want to have it and specifically, and I have this is one of my eight questions to follow up with. But I might as well ask you now, like with Easter and Christmas, actually say, it's funny

you brought that up. You know, for an order for Sunday to work for a worship day or Saturday to work for a sabbathday, Christ always has to die on a Friday. Now, I want you to think about this. You have a birthday, it falls on a different day of the year every year. How can Christ's death always fall on Friday? And the only way it can is because they had to have an Easter season. If they would have gone by the New moon and let's say Passover day when Christ was

killed. On the Gogorian calendar, it would change, but it wouldn't change on God's calendar. In fact, God made statements like on the tenth of a bebe, which let's say it was the first month, you are to buy your lamb for the sacrifice, which would be on the fourteenth, which is the Passover evening. If you would have said you buy your lamb days before the passover, that would have been different, because then, no matter when the passover falls, if it happens to always fall on a Friday,

you could buy your lamb four days before then that's not a sin. But if God told the people to buy their lamb on the tenth of a Babe, that means some time around on the Gregorian calendar, the tenth of a Babe is going to fall on a Sabbath. Therefore, God is turning you into a center by telling you to buy your lamb on a sabbath. So that speaks to just what I was saying before. How the moon, how tight God's time peace was the new moon and then four weeks to follow.

You have to have an Eastern season for that to work. But even Christmas changes every day of the year because they give it the birth of Christ, and people would catch on to that faster. But the Sabbath does not work. Saturday Sabbath does not work, and Sunday worship does not work because Christ can't always die on Friday. He died on the passover of a certain and on the Gregorian calendar, that should change. Just like someone's birthday change your

death, they would change also. So it's funny that you brought it up in that aspect of it, because everybody should be able to grasp this. That then we're on the Gegorian calendar is because the Devil and Daniel seven twenty five. I think it is said the anti Christ would think to change times and laws, and that is just what the Church did. They changed the

Ten Commandments. If you read the churches Ten Commandments, they took out remember to keep holding the lords there or something like that, and they put in they split up the tenth commandment, all should not cover thy neighbor's goods, and deal should not covert thy neighbor's wife. The Ten Commandments of the Catholic

religion is different than what you read the Ten Commandments in the Bible. So it's just just an interesting, interesting concept that Easter has to have a season in order for the Sabbath Saturday and worship Sunday to work out where if you go by a large calendar, he died on Passover, he was in the tomb the next day, which would have been preparation day or no, he was in the two on the Sabbath, So he died on the Passover that

was sixth day to a week. He was in the two on the Sabbath the seventh day to a week, and he rose on the first day to a week. But that's different than every seven day gay count. Did that make sense to you? One hundred percent? It made sense to me. And that leads me into my next question, which is we spoke about kent Hovan already. I want to talk about a little bit about ken Ham, who's been on the radar a little bit lately, especially in our neck of

the woods with flat Earth. Here's a guy who has debated Bill and I, the science guy on creationism. Now he does stand against evolution and the big bank theory. However, this is the guy, by the way, that created the arc encounter in Kentucky. Our friend of the show. Josh from Foundered Earth Brothers went down there to visit and kind of talk to him about flat Earth, and they were actually that day he shout out, they were having a supposium about how flat Earth is definitely not part of the deal.

So this guy is all about creationism as the Bible says, but not a flat Earther. And moreover, they're very They didn't even let them talk. They didn't treat him very well. So that goes back to if we're going to push creationism how it's written, why can't some people like ken Ham see the bigger picture. All I can say is, I mean ken Ham just like he's probably more known than we are, but just like anybody else,

he's in his walk with the Lord. He's where God has him or wants him, or just of certain aspects of his life, he's there. I guess all I can say we have to pray for him that guy would

open up his mind and heart. And I think that was my prayer earlier before this, that anybody either listens to this, that to our conversation we bring people closer to the Lord, and that through that they will find truth as we have found truth and I'm sure there's more truth for us to find, and all he can do is probably put ken him on my prayer list of one of the truth seekers. Yeah, and the reason I brought that up was because, I mean, the whole big thing that everybody goes down

there for is for the arc exhibit. And the Bible's very clear about how he flooded the earth. It didn't there wasn't some clouds that rolled in and it just started raining everywhere. He literally opened the windows of the firmament. Right now, I think it's difficult when you hear someone I'll give you an

example. Some of these people that I met from Australia matter Monsure. I mean, I gotta tell you, so gifted when it comes to his studies that God has given him, still doesn't believe in the flatter that makes fun of me when I talk about it. I mean we have a joking relationship about it, sure, and I think he's gonna come around it and that. But I mean, these are people that are just so well educated,

so impressive with their Bible knowledge, and yet don't see it. Do you think some of it goes back to just the psychology of how much effort the people who basically work under Satan, if you want to call him that, the controllers, how much effort they put into the flat earth to make it what it is today, the stigma that it is to so many people very much. So agreed. What other questions did I have other than I think

you touched on it? The sun su when and the sun to s when, the mockery with that heliocentrism, how the sun and helos centrism is the center of the world, where we believe the son Jesus Christ is the center of our world. I think there's a lot of mockery that goes into heliocentrism very much. So, was there anything that you had to touch on that we haven't talked about yet? Well, there's probably a lot of things to touch on, but I thank you for the time. I just pray that

art moment in time has brought people closer to the truth. And I just

hope that people like ken Ham will come around. I do too, and they have a very big stage, you know, much bigger than you and I and so many other people in the truth community, and hopefully they will because our goal is to get there's a we homeschool and sod to a lot of other people and you know that listen to the podcast, and we're hoping that we can get someone to have have a homeschool online type of course that it incorporates creationism and genesis how it is written, and even some of the

better ones that have great math and all these other things that they push ialeocentrism and NASA and all these other things which really leaves a bad taste in our mouth. So we're hoping that the people who I don't believe he's been he's by I want to make it clear. I don't think he's being nefarious about it, right. I just think that and we were all at that point of our life where we would hear the words flat earth and just kind of like, oh, okay, we're going to fall off the edge of the

earth. Right, So we can only hope and pray that some of these people who do have a much bigger voice than we do come around and spread the word. Amen to that, and I will leave you with the stage for any final thoughts are well. I yes, again, it's basically a prayer God open softens the minds and hearts of all his people out there, that we all can come to the Truth and just work for as his end time people, because we do know the time is short. Amen to that.

And it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast tonight, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of people reaching out to you with many many questions and continued success with your website, Family for Truth dot WordPress dot com. And all those links, including Bud's email address, will be in the show description. Make sure you check them all out. But thank you again for your time. I greatly appreciate it, and thank you to all the

listeners who have reached out and said such kind things. We continue to build our little community here and bring people on and kind of share the knowledge, right And that's the great thing. We all pull something from each other, and I think that's what makes this really a great experience. So half of Bud and myself, I want to thank everyone, and God bless you all. And until the next time we meet, my friends, we will see you