Episode 67: Flat Earth Conversation with JL

M. The following presentation is del Marve Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files. I hope this podcast finds everyone well. We've got a great guest standing by. J l host of the web site under the Iceberg dot net, is standing by and he'll be joining us in just a moment before we kick

things off. Just to reminder, questions, comments, concerns, or you'd like to join the podcast like JL is today, send us an email to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Again, it is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. And if you'd like to join us on the website, where you can listen to our twenty four seven streaming radio, leave a voice message, drop in the chat room, say hello, or leave your thoughts in our forum. You can do so by going to the

flat earth Files dot com. Again, that is the flat earth Files dot com. And don't forget if this is you're the first time, If you just found the podcast. After you're done listening to our conversation with Jail, why don't you go back to the very first podcast listen to the first ten kind of especially if you're new to the flat Earth concept. It'll kind of lay out our thoughts and some of the proofs and the historic Well, you hear a lot of things. Oh, flat Earth is a you know,

the CIA sciop that kicked off five or six years ago. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many books were written in the nineteenth century and much for you to explore. So thank you for joining us on the Flat Earth Files. If this is your first time. We do have a great guest standing by. He's got quite a story and again he hosts the website underthe Iceberg dot net. It's got his bio there. He's got about a thirty eight minute audio clip the Fallacy of Atheism, and he has a blog,

and ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the program today. J L. J L. How are you, my friend, doing well? George? How about yourself? Doing great? Thank you so much again for joining us. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the crowd. Great. Yeah, my name is j L from Omaha, Nebraska, And like you said, I got the website and podcast is under the Iceberg and I do have about ive or six podcasts up now, um and former Marine pretty much

yet I just kind of live and work and raise my family. I've got five kids and chickens and dogs and cats and garden and trying to trying to live as independently as I possibly can right now. And so you're you're living your best life right now, and your your life kind of sounds like a mirror's mine I had. You know, I spent a little more time in the military. You were smarter than me. Um, you know it's uh, I'd like you to share your journey to that. Well, actually,

let me ask you this first. Where did flat Earth fall in your journey to the truth? Was one of the one of the first things or was it one of the last things? Well, I would have to say it was probably the last thing that I found. Uh. You you're always finding new stuff. But the basics I kind of got out of the way right away. I'll just jump right into my journey, I guess. Yeah. When I first became a Christian, my wife led me to Christ back in

oh it must have been oh nine, and I first started learning. You know, I read the Bible, and I do remember the first time I read the Bible all the way through, and I was reading through Genesis and I had a little bit of background and you know, just the university's version

of cosmology and astronomy. And I remember reading when when he placed the sun, moon, and stars in the sky, and I was thinking, then, well, you know, the science is telling me that these things are trillions of miles away and it takes millions of years for the light to get

here. How does this work? And I remember I was just praying, and I, you know, I asked God to kind of show me what that meant because I didn't under stand it, and I just took it on faith, and I, you know, I told the Lord like, hey, you know, I don't get this, but I trust you, Please show me what this means. And then it was years later before I came across the flat Earth, and I was reminded about these prayers. But I I started reading the Bible and almost at the same time. And I've never

been a political person. I never really cared about politics or what was going on in the world. I just sort of, you know, just had a lot of apathy towards it. Like I figured, well, you know, America is great, everything else is horrible, and they need to become like us because we're the best, right and yeah, you know, and I fell into the whole propaganda of, you know, just patriotism, and which there's nothing wrong with pat I'm a patriot, you know, But yeah,

I just fell into the propaganda of everybody else is horrible. And we got our things together and and so I never questioned anything, and I figured, well, you know, things have been working for a couple hundred years here, and politicians, you know, they're smart, they know more than I do, and I'm just going to stay out of it. But this was, you know, back when Obama was the president, things were starting

to get a little weird. My brother in law, he'd always been into politics, and so he was talking to my wife and she started telling me things that she was seeing and they kind of got me interested in politics. So while I'm learning how to become a Christian and that's new to me and I'm learning about that, then I'm starting to now learn about politics and get

involved in what's going on in the world. And almost simultaneously with this, now, my wife had been working at a place that really you could say was like basically a front for the Freemason's kind of a charity front, you know, something like the shrine or something like that. Would you say, yeah, it's a it's a like a boy's home. Okay, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah. And so she was working up there doing office work and it was actually pretty nice. They would invite family over for They provided meals

during the day for the workers, and family was invited over. So I came over when I had time off from work and would come, you know, eat dinner with everybody. And I got to know everybody over there, and her boss he was he was a high level freemason, and just talking with him, uh, you know, he kind of started telling me about freemasons and like what he did, and you know, he liked it. And and one day he said, well, you know, next week they're

having like an orientation meeting if he wanted to show up or whatever. So we went up there, went through the you know, they had like a presentation and stuff like that, had a meal, and and you know, I just had this idea that this is just a great group of guys, you know, and and so I thought, hey, man, I'm going to join this, you know. And later on that week I started thinking, well, you know, I better check into like what I'm getting into.

And this was my first time ever really using the Internet to research anything. Before that, it was always just you know, buying car parts online or something as all ever easy Internet for and so I just, you know, I went into a search engine and just typed in something like the Christian

perspective on Freemasonry, just to see where all of this lined up. You know, had no idea what I was getting into, but I started reading some articles and basically just dived head first right down a rabbit hole and got lost in there and started, you know, I started learning about secret societies and Ross Child and how the banking industry works and how politics actually works, and of course this is all fitting in with everything else I'm learning at the

time about you know, truth and Christianity and politics and now secret societies and now all that stuff. And then I started getting into, oh, you know, the Alex Jones and learned about you know, nine to eleven and Waco at Ruby Ridge and all of this other stuff. And you know, my head's just spent and I'm like where, you know, where was all this information my whole life? And this is stuff that people should know.

And I really had this sort of naive idea, George that that people didn't know about this stuff, and that if I went and shared what I'm learning with people, that they'd be excited and happy to know it, and that you know, I'd be like getting thanked for exposing these things to people, because I really assumed that people would want to know truth, that truth was available, and I was blown away to find out that nobody wants to hear about this stuff. And uh, you know it's funny. I was listening

to one of your other podcasts. I can't remember the gentleman's name, but he also was a marine, and he talked about when he first learned about flat Earth and he went and talked to this old friend of his and asked him, you know, what's going on in your life and who you hanging out with? And he's like, oh, I don't have any friends. And he said, we mean, you know I have any friends? And he says, yeah, I know the Earth is flat and I got PROOFD So I lost all my friends and I can relate to that. Uh,

that's kind of how it went down for me too. I people stopped wanting to hang out with me, you know, on this crazy conspiracy theorist. Now that's out of touch with reality, right, Yeah, that's that's a familiar story that many of our guests and that I've endured it. Then part of it is we just grow to have different passions. We want to continue to hunt for the truth, and things that may have been important in our lives at one point, whether it be sports or politics or entertainment, take

a back seat to our constant search for the truth. You know, once you take that red pill, you know, the matrix is just a movie. But at the same time, there's a little bit of truth to the fact that when you take that red pill, you never see things the same again, and there is no going back. No, there, You're right about that, there really is no no going back. I've thought a couple of times that it would be nice to to be able to take a reprieve

and just remember what the state tasted like for a little while. But yeah, but but no, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't trade knowing the truth for anything. It's life changing, And yeah, like you said, everything else takes a back seat. And for me, not only have these things taken a back seat, but they'd be really not something I even want to deal with anymore. Because most of the stuff that I've done in

my life has all just been distraction. And you know, I, just like everybody else, I was sort of led into doing these things in propagandis, into thinking that this is what life's about when it's really not. Yeah, one hundred percent. And another thing that frustrated me is when I started to go down these rabbit holes. You know, I thought to myself, wait a second, why you know, when I first ran into the US the USS Liberty story, and you know, I talked to the survivors and

the I'm like, why aren't these things in the history books. I spent twelve years in school. Why didn't one time did this never come up? Why doesn't the Helotimore ever come up? Why doesn't the Cayton massacre ever come up? And you know that the joke I forget who said it. Maybe it was the guy who used to do Saturday Night Live the News and the nineties who just recently passed, or McDonald. He says it at a coincidence that the good guys win every war, right, right, and that's why

they call it his story, his story exactly. And then you find the truth about Lincoln and everything in our history books is just a little bit of truth with a lot of lives, and you know that to me, and that's why it's kind of become a passion to me. I try to and I know in my other podcast it becomes kind of a focal point. And I'm sure sometimes people kind of roll their eyes when I bring it up.

But the Department of Education is unconstitutional. The federal government has no business being involved with our children's education, and like so many other things in our life, it frustrates me. And I'm guilty as charged too that we just roll over and allow this tyranny to happen. Right, Yeah, I totally agree. I'm completely convinced when I look at what we're taught in the public school and then I think about what truth actually is, it's literally one hundred and

eighty degrees the opposite of truth, uh, almost point for point. Uh. Astronomy is completely backwards. History is complete, almost the opposite of what. You know that when we look at the heroes and I almost look at I almost look at what is taught in school as an indoctrination into a cult, and I'm convinced it's a Luciferian cult that you know, the society that we live in, uh, everything in culture, in entertainment, and it's

it's just really satanic. I mean truly, the music, the movies, the television shows, the message that they're trying to send, it's just really satanic. And I and I'm convinced that it's a cult. And I'm convinced that the education system is an indoctrination into that cult. And and when you when you look at what they what they want us to lead, and if you look at it like that, like it's almost a religion, you know, I think you've talked about this, how they present like these saints of

their religions. So you've got Saint Martin Luther King Junior, in Saint Abraham Lincoln. And when you look into these these people that they that they reverence, they're not good people and they're not for us. Um, they're they're

against us, you know, there our enemy. And these are the people that are being promoted to us to uplift when really we should be just kind of digging in and finding out, hey, is this really is what this person was promoting really a good thing for us, for society, for for Christendom, for truth, for you know, any sort of good life for

the people in the world and the answers know. In my opinion, yeah, I agree some people might may find this weird, but I've never been a fan of like these monuments, And I don't care how good that you may think somebody is. At the end of the day, we're all human and we're all flawed. You know. The only other person in our world's history that we should you know, honor like that is Jesus, right, and absolutely not necessarily a monument about what I'm saying is to revere another man

like that. It always was weird to me, even as a child, right because at the end of the day, they're all flawed, they have, you know, their flaws, just like everyone else. And there are some people in the world stage through history who I'm sure have done great deeds and have contributed to society. But at the end of the day, those are the type of people they don't want a statue of themselves anywhere, you know, if they're really that great, that humble. That's always just been

odd to me me too, you know. We went on vacation up to Mount Rushmore a couple of years ago, and I remember driving around and they're monuments everywhere in this place. I mean, and I look at them as idols. And I remember, I remember as we're driving up there, and you know, we went up the Iron Mountain Road, which is a beautiful drive. I would recommend it to anybody if you want to go somewhere.

It's it's absolutely gorgeous country. But as you're driving up this road, you know, every so often you can stop and they'll have like a whole cut out, like a tunnel in the mountain. You can like look and and they position that monument directly in your view, and it's it's it's pretty neat to look at. But at the same time, we're going up this thing, and I you know, I looked at my wife at my wife and I said, you know, honey, it's kind of weird. And she's

like, yeah, says like it's like an idol. I'm like yeah, I'm like I think that's what this whole place is, is like just dedication

to idols. And I don't think that's good. You know, like, here's here's these here's these guys up on the mountain and and you know they are they did amazing things, and um, but you look into the history, like George Washington was a Freemason. Yeah, you know, you look into the history of all these people that have been have been pushed and promoted to us to revere, and it is like they want us to worship these people. And you know, I kind of touched on patriotism a little bit.

I've always been a patriot. I think I think back when I was, you know, ignorant to the world, I think that really kind of was my religion in a way. You know, America could do no wrong and kind of anything that anything that you needed to do, as long as it was good for America. It didn't matter the morality of it, you know, and that's not a good way to think or live. Couldn't agree

more. And you had touched on freemasonry. Did he really lead on did he talk much about the different levels or because I had heard like you know, when you're first coming in there, didn't even acknowledge the deep secrets or anything like that. Was it just a very casual type of conversation or did he try to lead on to like, hey, you can really be successful and get to places in life by being a Freemason. No, in fact,

the opposite. They said that, um, they don't want people coming in that want to use it for like material, for like gain or promotion. But it was just kind of understood that that you'll be helped out, if that makes sense. Sure, like it's like it's a group of men that helped one another out. That that was kind of like an unsaid sort of obvious thing. But no, they actually went out of their way to say that that they didn't want people to come in and think that they could,

you know, get ahead and be successful by using their organization. Although that obviously is part of what it is. Certainly, certainly, yeah, we had that. I don't know if you remember, but you know, when you're E one through six in the military, you're selected through promotion points at how it was in the army, but when you get to D seventy eighty nine, it was it was DA selection and you would have to get

your DA photo. And it used to be that the pictures were taken I think below the hands, like from the knees and up, and folks would have on their Freemason rings. And it became a big deal. And finally, I want to say it was twenty ten or twenty eleven, they finally changed the picture format because it became obvious and a big deal. Not that they changed and everything, because I'm sure people who knew knew that had their connections, but they did change the way they did DA photos. I think

about thirteen years ago is when they made that change. That's really interesting. Yeah, some things they want to make obvious and some things they just want to kind of keep under the wraps. Especially now that people are starting to wake up, I would imagine they still probably want to keep some things a little bit hidden. I think we're in a time of revealing though things. Things that used to be what was considered occult are are being openly talked about

as though that's just normal. But I think you're I think you're onto something there that. Yeah, they probably don't want things to be extremely obvious. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Things that used to be kind of you'd really have to go out of your way to kind of dig up. They're not hiding anything anymore. And it really kicked off with covid Um that

that Agenda twenty twenty. Going forward, they just um with the trans Agendia trans Agenda excuse me and Pride and the vaccine push and the great um deep platforming of YouTube and medical professionals who didn't toe the line with the jab just um that they let the cat out of the bag. And it's they're not hiding it anymore. And it's it's they're not hiding it at all. That this is a battle of good versus evil. Absolutely, well, yeah,

there's a separation of the sheep and goats going on right now. And it's it's it's almost impossible not to see the division and the separation. Um and and you know, and I often I often think, uh, you know, the collapse of any civilization, I think probably looked just like this. Uh to an extent. You got you know, you had wymar Germany had Rome. You know, I think Rome looked like us at the end. Uh. But I sometimes I think, is this just the collapse of this

era? Or I mean everything's worldwide now? When you when you had the COVID, uh what you say, the mandates that they were all over the world. I mean, it wasn't just it wasn't just Nebraska and Florida. It was every city and county and state across the entire world did the exact same thing, almost And It makes me wonder if if this is, you know, if the collapse of other civilizations of me have maybe just been the

microcosm of what we're looking at now, is the macrocosm. I don't want to be one of these people that says, you know, all the end is right now. And this is because every generation has said that, has pointed to, hey, you know, everything that's going on, this could be the end of the world. But I really truly think that, and

I don't think I'm alone with this. I've heard other people kind of mentioned this too, that the the worldwide nature of everything that's going on, and the technology that we have now, and the genetic manipulation, and there's so many things you could point too that could easily be the mark of the beast. I think it's a genetic component involved in it. But you know, you've got Elon Musk with his uh brain implants and the potential for for them

to have complete control. And that's really what the when when you read prophecies and like Daniel in the Book of Revelation and all over the Bible, really about about the you know, judgment day, really the day of the Lord and the end of this world. It looks like we're building up really quickly to uh, to the to the why what we've been calling the occult having

domination over the world. Europe is a post Christian place now, I'd have to say that America is becoming post Christian and that's it can be kind of scary, but uh, you know, I take heart knowing that all of this is is pre planned and meant to be, and all all fits in with his plan. I don't know what you think about that. Yeah, you're right on the money. And I wanted to ask you kind of along those same lines because you mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast, and

I'm afraid if I don't mention it now, I'm going to forget. But on the other podcast, I talk about patriotism a bit, and do you do you find yourself in a quandary? Not that again, not that you're not patriotic, but do you find yourself in a weird position where obviously you love your country, and you obviously volunteered to, you know, serve your country, but this country doesn't really reflect your you know, your moral compass and who you are. I rustle with this daily, George. I love

my country I love the people in my country. I hate to say this, but less so as the days go by. One of the things that I see on the news, you're I can't, I can't enjoin with what's happening in the in the greater scheme of things and the West in general, uh is just going downhill. There is there is a cadre of people that are waking up, that are going back to tradition, to historically. But even that, when you go back, you know, eighteen fifty seventeen hundreds,

obviously things were better. But it was it this country. Was that the government was, the constitution, was that the president's was at our founding fathers. No, I think it was because most of the people in this country were, if not Christian, at least not antagonistic towards Christianity, and

so there was a morality. I can't remember who was talking. I think that like Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson was saying that that freedom is only for immral people, and when the people become immral, we don't deserve freedom. And in this country we really don't deserve freedom anymore because of where we've gone. We're not im moral people George, and I can't support what's happening.

I could support resistance to a lot of the things that are happening, and I think there's a lot of people that are resisting and that's good, and I don't know what that looks like. But as far as patriotism goes, I really struggle with it because I've always been a patriot, and I believe in patriotism, and I believe in defending what you believe in defending, especially

your family and your community. But I wonder, have we ever in this country, the military, the politicians, have they ever really defended this country? Or have we just kind of gone out and conquered, conquered and poked the tiger. And you know, you look at what's gone on in South America in the last few decades. You know, they've gone down there and just basically stirred up hornet's nests and built up basically armies and funded them and

armed them and then opened the gates and let them up here. Yeah, it looks it looks it looks more like a military exercise. To me, that's against us, not for us. And so no, I can't I have a hard time with I mean, you know when I was a kid, you know, we'd stand up there and say Pledge of allegiance before class and you know, I you know, you go to a rodeo or a ball game and you know you'd be singing the play the national anthem, and I'd have my heart over my hand over my heart. You know, you

get that swell of pride and uh. And like I said, said, it was almost to me almost like a religious experience in some way. And I dug it. You know, I look at the flag and it just made me feel good. Things I've learned lately. And I don't know, I don't want to say I'm like anti American. I don't want to say I'm you know, anything like that. But I look at the flag now and all I can see is this is basically the East India Trading Company.

And look at what they've done. You know, they're basically drug dealers. And I can't get on board with that. They I mean, these people went, I mean, you talk about the slave trade, you know, and they want to blame it on on an ethnic group, but really it was just the bad guys doing this and my people had nothing to do with it. Yeah, And once again that's the people who control the history books pushing a certain narrative, and they played the law game. And we are

seeing the results of this long game. And as we mentioned earlier, things have just escalated. I think I think they got to the point where they realized and I think they they did a lot of these tests over the last twenty or thirty years, just push a little more. Pardon me, push

a little more. Wow, they're still not resisting. Push a little more, and they're finally like they've become I think the controllers just look at us said, look, they've become so docile as long as they continue with their their netflix and uh, you know, there are things that no matter what we do, as long as we don't like I almost said, infringe on their health and wellbeing. But what was the vaccination program all about? Still to this day, every day there's athletes, actors that come up in the

news that these people are very famous English soccer or football. For you European friends out there, just had you know, a brain aneurism the other day and he was on record as you know that they posted his photo of him getting his jabs. I don't think they've regard for anything anymore. I think I don't know if they become so brazen because they know the end is coming soon, or they just realize they do think they're winning, And I think

again they realize how docile we've become. And January six, that was a big event that led to people being afraid to ever step foot in DC again to protest you see these harsh prison penalties. By the way, I'll be interviewing Jeremy Brown, who's another January six guy, in two weeks on the Fact Hunter podcast. I'll be interviewing him from prison. You know, all these things they do are done for a certain reason, and it is to

manipulate your mind, you know, as mad as you get. Well, we better not go to Washington, DC, because I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life in jail. Who's going to feed my family, who's going to do this, Who's going to do that? So they have created a prison for our minds, right, Well, don't stand up, don't do anything, don't say anything, don't rock the boat. And that's been the mentality that's been pushed on us since basically right after World

War Two. You know, what's what's the whole thing that people say, don't ever talk about politics or religion, Well, what's the most important thing that we should be talking about politics and religion? They have propagandized us into, yeah, like you said, being docile. But I'll tell you one thing that I'm noticing, and that that's just through listening to podcasts mostly where

I you know, this, this whole podcast community is amazing. It's like the wild West right now where you can actually have conversations and there are people, there's a lot of people waking up. There's a lot of people that are starting to understand what's going on. And you know, historically Christendom has We've been a people who allow things to happen until we're backed into a corner. And I don't know, I feel like my walls, my back's kind

of pushed up against the corner right now. And I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not saying that people need to take action physically, but what does need to happen, and I think what is happening is that the word needs to be spread. If everybody, and maybe not even everybody, if if a big percentage of people just basically opted out because you don't have

to do what you're told. I think that people just have this idea because we're shown that we're you know, when you're in school, they you know, here's an authority figure up in front of you, standing up, you're sitting down, your inferior to them. They tell you what to do, they tell you what to think, and you just say, okay, okay, you don't have to do that. You know they want to take our food away. Well, you can raise chickens, you can grow a garden.

People have been living on the land for thousands of years. Uh, you know, you don't have to you don't have to use their utilities. You can get your own utilities. I mean, there's ways to do these things. We can be independent and free from all of this. And if most people just opted out of the system and just said I'm I'm I'm done. I'm not going to watch their television they're they're programming, you know,

their propaganda. I'm not going to accept it. Uh you know, I'm not gonna I'm not going to feed into this this sort of anti Christian narrative that's being pushed. Uh, you know, I'm going to just serve God, serve my family and live my life. And you know, whatever the world is doing out there, the world can continue to do it. I think if enough people actually did that. Look at what happened in the in

the COVID thing, the whole trucker response up in Canada. People just said no. And I think if enough people just started to say no, no, thank you and just opted out, well, they would have no control. They The only control they have is the control that we give them. And you know, it's well, and it's just like this, uh, it's just like this whole flat earth thing. They've been propagandizing us with this globe for you know centuries. Really, I mean they've been pushing it for

centuries. It's you know, it's really been pushing what since the what mid eighteen hundreds, I guess, well, you know, they really tried to start the ball, you know, after Reformation. That really goes to show me how it is a religious thing. It is is a battle for the souls. And you know, the Jesuit's kind of you know, hijacked and started to run, you know, Pythagoras, It's been around for a long time. But I think you're right, it kind of they got the ball

rolling in the sixteenth century. But it really seems like at some point during the eighteen hundreds where they started instituting it into the education system, right, that actually formally started pushing it in the education system. And now, like I said, you can't watch a movie, TV show, walk through a school a library without seeing a globe. That's interesting. I've been paying attention

to that. You're absolutely right, it is pushed it. When you look at PBS, the Public broadcast, the kids shows on PBS, every single kids show has something to do with oh, here's the planets and look at them their spears and even like watching these cartoons and like these cartoon characters will be walking and if they're they pan out from them and it looks like they're walking on this giant curve. I mean, they just really throw it in

your face and they get the kids early. But you know, you're talking talking about how they started instituting it and the education Asian system and pushing it into propaganda, and noticed that it was simultaneous with the theory of macro biological evolution, all of this anti god stuff, and it really got big in

the late eighteen hundreds. There was you know, you had Blovotsky, and you had, you know, with her theosophy, and then that became the thing in the un and you had all these elites started feeding into this anti Christian spirituality, whether it was paganism or Satanism or Luciferian philosophy or any of this stuff. Get I get big into study in the occult. I like to I like to understand if somebody's standing in my way, you know,

my ideas. I'm going to plow through these people at any cost, and the way for me to do that is to study them and understand them. I need to understand my enemy. And so I've been studying the occult and I noticed that you're right. It is a religious thing, and everything is a spiritual battle. I mean, the Bible tells us this, and all

of these attacks have been an attack against God and against his word. And you know, I alluded to this in the beginning that when you look at everything that they push at is it's really easy to um figure out what they're doing because all they do is they read the Bible and they turn it completely on its head one hundred and eighty degrees. And that's why it's so easy to accept. For people because it's it's the it's the flip side of the

coin, but it's still the same coin, if that makes sense. So it's so if you know, if if God says the uh, you know, creation is young, only six thousand years, well okay, well let's just say that it's really old. So let's say, you know, billions

of years. If if if God said that, uh, you know, the earth is a horizontal plane, and then let's say it's a ball, if you know, I mean, and it it just goes on the whole evolution thing, and you know, I think it's I think it's interesting that the that Christians have been able to identify the fallacies of of things like biological evolution, and you have people teaching classes on it and going out of their

way to say, hey, look, this is wrong. The Bible says this, but they're pushing this and that's that's a lie and that's wrong. How have we not done the same thing with the shape of the earth. I mean, to me, that's vastly more important because if you, um, you know, if you up that the earth is a horizontal plane with a dome over the top of it, there's absolutely no way that you could

convince anybody that that happened randomly over time by accident. And I just don't understand how it's it's to me, it's very clear biblically the shape and nature of creation of the cosmos. And and when you look out, this is what you see. We're not moving were I look. I'm looking at clouds up in the sky right now above my head, and they're completely stationary, just these big fluffy light clouds. And if we were spinning, those things

should be moving all the time. I know they say it's like bell crow to the atmosphere somehow, but that's just that just sounds ridiculous. It's nonsense. It's absolute nonsense. The watched this guy and he he did a video. He went into a university somewhere and he went to this group of people and they were all about space and you know, like astrophysics and stuff like this. And he was talking to this guy and he was he was an engineer, he was a you know what what where they work on spaceships or

whatever. And uh, sorry, it's just it's just so funny to me because it's so ridiculous. It is. But he was talking to this guy and the guy was an engineer and and he and he was kind of like, you know, asking about what they're doing, and he was kind of showing him around the facility and what they were doing. And the guy asked him this question. He said, well, explain this to me. It

doesn't because it doesn't make sense, you know. And he was talking about how the atmosphere is just this open thing with you know, a massive vacuum behind it, and he said, where can you show me that you can have gases next to a vacuum without a barrier and then not get sucked out into the vacuum. And it stumped the guys of God, I don't know. He's like, does that make sense to you? He's like, well,

you would have to ask a physicist. And it's and it's like these people are so pigeonholed into their what do they call that, their comportmentalization, where it's ridiculous when they're when these people and we're so convinced that, oh, listen to the experts, Well, if you're an expert. And I don't mean to put anybody down, I mean I'm sure that there's a lot of people that have studied a lot of things and understand what they're studying really

really well, and I can admire that. I think that's great. But if you allow yourself to be so thoroughly indoctrinated into one subject that may or may not be completely wrong, Usually they are very wrong and lot of ways, but you're so pigeonholed into thinking that that you don't even have any business questioning somebody else's field of expert I mean, we have brains, we can read, we can think, you can be cross disciplinary. But they these

people don't think and win. So when they're confronted with something that is countered what they want to believe or what they've been told to believe, then they just deferred it. Well, I just don't know enough about that, so I can't comment on that. Even though they know in their mind that they're wrong, I just think it's Yeah, I think that's their way of cop I guess copying out is the only really phrase I can think of using. Yeah, not every single subject. Do you have to defer to a subject

matter expert or somebody who's got a degree in a certain field. Common sense Sometimes it's okay for common sense to prevail, right, people like you and I would say that, but I don't I don't know that if you've gone through and okay, let me let me digress for a second. I've heard

you talk about school and you were talking about twelve years of indoctrination. Right, it's actually thirteen because you you add kindergarten in there, right, right, You're you're in school for thirteen years, which is a very occult number. Um, it's I think important to notice how they how they put their their occult philosophy into everything, and they're they're one of their languages is numbers,

and they're big on that. So it's thirteen years that you go in degrees, just like in any magical order, you you're elevated in degrees, and you know, you graduate up those degrees. But if if you've been indoctrinated for thirteen years and then you go to college and you're indoctrinated for another four, and then you go to post post post grad, and then you're indoctrinated for another four or six, by the time you're you're at you're just

so fully early indoctrinated that there's no there's no way out of it. I mean, some people get out of it and then they're completely disillusioned, and it's usually after they've been fired for asking a question or ostracized from their groups or whatever. But once you're once you're in that position, it's it's, I'm imagining, very difficult to get out, and it's very difficult to question anything. You know, you're surrounded by by people that do nothing but reinforce

the indoctrination. And and and it's it's customary to humiliate anybody that steps out of line, so to speak. Yeah, and I think we are kind of programmed to go along, to get along, and you know, not

go against the grain. And when you're a young man from or a woman, in most cases, we're kind of embarrassed to ask questions when we're in school because we don't want to seem like the dumb dumb at least that's how I was, although I would challenge the narrative every once in a while, but not as much as I should, because you start going through that phase where you're more worried about what people think of you than your actual education.

And you're like, well, if I ask this question while I look dumb, you know that that type of thing goes on and on and on. I do want to kind of defer back to a few things before we get too much further. You know, you're talking about the best way to beat the system is to walk away from the system, and I concur one hundred percent. I go back to the fact, if you're playing a game with someone who always cheats, do you continue playing the game or do you walk

away? You just know I'm done with the game. Yeah, you quit. You're like, I'm not playing with you anymore. You cheat all the time. And that's exactly what goes on. And the people who still say constitution, this constitution that I always say, that's a contract between a government and the people. And if only one party it adheres to a contract, it's moots, it's garbage. It doesn't mean anything. So you know, people need to stop really calling out, Hey this now. If we get

some kind of reset and start over, we can adhere to it. And it would be a great country if we actually towed the line to the constitution. However, the people that are in power right now don't give a darn about the constitution. Would you agree to that? Yeah, I do agree with that. It's kind of been thrown out the window. I shouldn't probably speak on this because I haven't done enough research to really truly understand it. But I heard somebody say one time, and I kind of looked into it,

and it seems like that's right. That Ben Franklin had a big part in writing the Constitution, and that it is almost word for word, the same constitution that he wrote for the Freemasonic chapter that he was the head of. So he basically took the constitution that he wrote for his Freemasonic temple and that became our constitution. And I don't think that I like a lot of other things in the Constitution. I think it's there. You know, it's

a good document. I think that if people adhere to it and live by it, that things would be better. And yes, I think that they have completely ignored it. The people that are in power are continuing to ignore it even more and more. But I don't know that it matters what To an extent, it doesn't matter what kind of a governmental system you have. If the people in society are moral and live up to a moral code,

that the government doesn't have as much power. You know, in the Bible, God tells us that he institutes governments amongst people in order to suppress sin. Right, So if the people in the society are not sinning very often and nobody's going around murdering each other and raping each other, well there's really no purpose for the government. And so the government stays small. And I think that's why the people who seek power have gone in. I mean,

especially since like the sixties. Right, you know, we've had all these satanic revolutions since the sixties with the hippies and the rock and roll and the pornography, and it's just continued to get worse while that all that has done, and I think this is the purpose of all of it is that it's instilled sin into society and it has caused us to be an immoral people. And now since we're an immoral people, it's caused the government to be able

to justify getting bigger and having a heavier hand. And they've got so much power and control that it doesn't matter if they completely disregard the constitution. What are you going to do about it? Agreed? And the government wants you to think and when I say you, i'm you know, the government wants it's citizens to think that they get their freedoms from the government, not God. And people need to understand that we get our rights from God, their

natural rights. That's kind of where a lot of people I think missed the boat on and they just you know, it's the government, it's you know what it is, what it is. And going back to Franklin, he he did. He played a big part of writing the Constitution at the Constitutional Convention in eighty seven, seventeen eighty seven, and he also had of course

a big hand in writing the Declaration of Independence. So I'm not sure I've really researched into that is interesting because obviously Ben Franklin, big Freemason, George Washington, big Freemason, kind of would be cool to do some research and see how those two documents parallel. Well, it would, Like I said, I probably shouldn't speak on him because I haven't really researched it enough, but it does seem legitimate. Yeah, how parallels to like a Masonic type

of document, right. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to touch on, as you mentioned, Helena Bolovatsky, What's I've mentioned a few times on the other podcast and when we talk about Manly P. Hall and his famous quote when people can recognize the symbols you know, a great veil will fall upon mankind. If you look at the logo for the Theosophical Society that she

helped grow and bring about, Holy col there's the Nazi symbol. There's the Jewish symbol, you know, the two intersecting pyramids with the six corners and the snake eating its tail, very similar to Nazi symbol. If you've never seen it, I'll try to remember. Actually, let me put that in now, so I'll remember to put that in the show description. Lots of symbology. Have you seen that before? I have, So the the Nazi symbol you talk about, it's the well yeah it actually yes, thank you

so um for her, that wasn't a Nazi symbol. That was a a Hindu symbol. And she went around and she was very big into Eastern mysticism, so um, you know, esoteric Buddhism, esoteric Hinduism, and this is where she got most of her philosophy and doctrine from. And that's like

what she mostly drew from, was this Eastern mysticism. And so that is a symbol from from the East. And from what I understand Hitler was reading her her writings that he was kind of a I don't know if he was necessarily a follower of Blovotsky, but he was definitely very interested in what she had to say. So I think that's probably how how they ended up adopting the swastika for for their purposes, and so I think it was more a theosophical drive and than anything else. U. And then the the the the

star, uh, they call it the Star of David. That's not correct at all. I don't think that's any in any way associated with King David. Possibly I've heard people say that it may have been associated with Solomon because it towards the end of his life. Of course, he you know, had his concubines and they kind of turned him toward their their their systems of belief. So it's you know, it's possible that it may have come from

him. But really that's a hermetic symbol because it's got a triangle pointing up in a triangle pointing down, and so this is the hermetic principle of as above so below. So this is hermeticism, which is really the roots of black magic. Yeah, you know, and that sorry, go ahead, oh yeah, And so the you know the fact that it is Jewish, um, the Jewish religion that we have today doesn't seem to really coincide at all with um, you know, Biblical Hebrew worship of Yahweh. I mean,

it's it's pretty much. These are the people that Jesus spoke about that they have their traditions of men that are stomping on it on the rules of God, and they have um, you know, and the dena viper's kind of thing. And so their stuff comes from what I can tell comes mostly from uh, you know, Babylonian black magic, which is the worship of

the bales and the worship of Nimrod, you know. And you go down to Egypt, it's it's Isis and Osiris, and you know, all over the it's it's paganism, it's polytheism, it's it's what we call the occult, which I don't think really we can call it the occult anymore because occult means hidden. They're not hiding anymore. Talked about you talked about Manly Hall, and I, well, he died what in the nineties, Yeah,

it's been about thirty years now, eight late eighties, early nineties. Okay, So I watched an interview with him where he talked about that he's so grateful that now they can start openly talking. And so this must have been seventies or eighties that this interview was going on, and he was talking then that he's so grateful that now all these things that they've been hiding and keeping

secret and underground they can now openly talk about. And I think that that's you know, uh, you know, it wasn't Blavotsky, but it was her protege, Any Basson. Is that right at Bailey, Alice Bailey. I believe she was talking about the externalization of the hierarchy, which basically just means letting the cat out of the bag. You know, once they got to the point where they they put pushed the New Age, which is you know, Satanism rebranded, right, they pushed the New Age out into society

and people have accepted it. And that's you know, kind of the the soup of the day, right, this new Age stuff. Well, once they push that out and people have accepted it, they can talk about whatever they want openly and not hide anything. And that's what they've been pushing for. That's what they want. They want a completely satanic society, and they're i'd say pretty much there. They're not getting any resistance, that's for sure, not even within the church. I hate to say, yeah in a

lot of cases anyway. And it's interesting. Obviously she was an occultist, and there's a lot of stories that whether it's true or not, it's hard to say because there's been so much disinformation about World War Two. But of course there's a lot of rumors that Hitler dabbled in the occult as well. I just think that's an interesting connection, how they kind of mirror the symbology

and there's the occult factor there as well. Right, Well, you look at the uh, the elite levels in the Nazi system, you know, Himmler and all the rest. They uh they were deep occultists and um they were traveling around the world trying to find occult artifacts. And uh no, they were into the whole fuel society thing. And this idea of the arians, you know, and the root races and this all comes from Blovotsky, uh and and and and really if you trace it down, it goes down

into her meticism, and uh this is ancient, ancient stuff. And and this was this was the before Christianity came through. This, This was just the open way people lived, you know, worshiping pagan gods and and trying

to become superman and trying to become gods themselves. I mean, that's just what people did until Christianity came through, and then people accepted the truth of Christ and that all that stuff had to go underground, so all their priests and their elites had to had to hide and pretend like they weren't doing what they were doing. And that's how it became o cold. But now they've

turned the page and it's just not o cold anymore. Do you see any links between Blavatsky and Marino Bramovich. I know, one's Russian, one Serbian, um, but it seems like they have a lot of the same type of background. Same well well, I mean the same spirits are running through and I tell you that much. I'm sure about that the ideologies because in my study of the Occold, it seems like it's an evolving knowledge system,

right Like they're they're trying to get back the knowledge that they lost. They're trying to rebuild, and they're trying and then they're also adding new things to it so as technology comes in. Now they can use technology to their to their advantage, and so there's there's all this this changing and evolving coming when when um, when Crowley came onto the scene, he took a lot of this ancient stuff and added a lot of his new stuff and made a whole

completely new system with with Thelema. I mean, that was a whole new system, religious system that never existed before, and it added a lot of new things in and and then I think Abramovich is probably closer linked to Crowley

than she is Blovotsky. But it's again, I think it's all the same spirit, you know, it's just the spirit of Antichrist, and it's I think that I think that as Christians, when we look at other religious systems, especially the occult, I think that we have this idea that they're unified, because we try to be unified. I mean we're not, but we try to be unified under like a biblical standard, and we try to always, you know, follow the Biblical mandate in our lives. And so I

think that we assume that the occult does the same thing. But they I don't think they do. I think that they have threads that pass between them. But I think that because one of the one of the kind of precepts of Satanism is that you're doing your own thing, right, it would probably that will yeah, yeah, and so and so. You know, each individual is doing whatever they want to do, and you know, screw the rest of them if that's if it gets in my way, right. So,

I don't think there's the unity that that we expect to find. So, you know, just because well By did this and Crowley did that, and this guy's doing that, it doesn't mean that they're you know, maybe they drew from some of their writings or maybe that, you know, but I think that I think that every group is just individual to itself, is what I'm finding to an extent. Now, of course, the elites at the top they have a definite set of belief systems and a real true doctrine

that they go by. But you know, I think that these disparate groups. I don't think the devil cares if you worship him or if you worship Zeus or if you worship As long as he's pulling you away from Christ and away from truth, he's winning, he's achieving his goal. So you know, he doesn't care if you want to be you know, a Nazi or or metasister or anything. I think you had mentioned, you know, sister on the subject. Did you mention in your first email that you had some

type of demonic encounter? I did, yeah, when um, when I first and I don't know. I've kind of always had paranormal things happen in my life, but no, I have you ever heard of sleep paralysis? H In fact, yeah, you have. You had a guest on I was talking about that. I remember, Uh No, I've had sleep paralysis off and on through my life and never really understood it. I just knew

it was very uncomfortable. And when I was getting closer to God and at the same time learning about the occult, I think that when you read certain and I wouldn't suggest that people read occult writings please, in fact, please don't unless you really truly feel like you're led to it, because there is a and there's reasons that people get into it. There's a temptation there,

so it's it's really dangerous and I just wouldn't suggest it. But to understand my enemy, I was reading some of their writings, and as I was doing that, I think that I think that when you're doing that you're kind of opening doors. And I ended up having a sleep paralysis one night. And whenever that happens, you just get this sense like there's a presence in the room and it's not nice. And I could feel that, and it's I felt like, you know, I just I got to get away from

this, but I can't move, you know, you're paralyzed. And I could see, not really with my physical eyes, but I could just kind of I could really say, I could see with my you know, like a spiritual vision. I could see an entity moving and leaving my room and going down to my kid's room, and he started messing with my kid and all of the fear and I couldn't even describe the fear. And it's it's a deep hopelessness that um, it's just really truly indescribable. It's it's it's

darkness beyond black. I mean, it's it's just a real true feeling of hopelessness and despair and indescribable feeling, the deepest emotion that I've ever felt in my life. But when I when I perceived that he was going down messing with my son, that there was just a baby at the time, all of that fear and hopelessness and depression and anxiety, and I had the same intensity of emotion, but it all switched to anger. I'm gonna stop you,

is what I could feel. And I was completely driven by that, and I was able to This is going to sound really strange and weird to people, but I had an out of body experience. I just all of the will in me said I'm gonna go get this thing and stop it from what it's doing. And I started to turn and I was able to turn my head, but my physical head stayed on the pillow. I was still physically paralyzed, but I was able to come a little bit out of my

body and spiritually turn my head. And when I did this thing knew what I was doing, and instantly it was back by my bedside, and I looked at the damn thing and it grabbed me and it pulled me out of my body, and it drugged me to my closet and I was trying to like scream. Looking back, I should have just called out for Jesus.

I know for a fact it would have been over instantly, but I was so overcome by well, first of all, the experience, it was very strange, but also just this deep anger and just vitriol that I'm just I'm gonna get. There's absolutely nothing I could do to this thing. I mean, it was completely more powerful than me, but I didn't care. I was gonna die stopping it from messing with my kids. And so I'm trying to scream like help or I don't know something, and my wife woke up.

She said that I was making the strangest noise like kind of like ah, you know, she said it kind of freaking her out, and I was kind of like digging into her leg, you know, and she woke up. As soon as she woke up, this thing stopped. I was back in my body, and ever since then, I've been what would you say, just extremely sensitive to spiritual things around me. I can sense demons

when they're around. And I know this probably sounds strange to a lot of people, but people that have had any kind of experience with this will understand completely where I'm coming from. I think, you know, many people listen to this podcast or probably more receptive to to that type of thing than the folks who just listened to regular entertainment, you know, type of podcasts.

People understand that this is a spiritual battle. I've had sleep paralysis a few, very few, but I've had them, and it's I can say that it is one of the most distressing things that you can cover encounter because you literally feel like you're strapped onto a guerney like you know in the in the horror movies, like the psych patient is completely strapped down because you can't move.

You try to scream. And you know, when I was going through that back and forth between Iraq, I was dealing with a lot of sleep issues and night terrors and things of that nature. Your mind can really it's um and I do believe there's people who can kind of sense these kind of things. And I believe, if I remember correctly, that was like one of the last things that you encountered before you really rolled into and you know,

I showed you the flat Earth, right. It wasn't too long after that experience, you know, it was it was within a couple of weeks. Yeah, And he just really you know, uh, it's it's really neat how God works in my life. He really sets me up for success.

When I first came into the flat or, I was coming to kind of a point where I'm you know, as I'm digging into the rabbit hole and learning about all these different truths and exposing wise and all of this, that I had kind of come to a brick wall where like I really wasn't learning a lot of new things. I was just getting more detail on the

stuff that I was already privy too. And I and I had been praying, and I, you know, I prayed, please, you know, show me what the next thing is or what is the next thing that I need to know and and and yeah, after this experience, it wasn't but a couple of weeks, and that experience really open me up to I kind

of moved from like believing to knowing on certain things. You know, when you have an out of body experience, you know that consciousness exists out of the body, So life after death doesn't seem unreasonable at all after this. So, I was working as a mechanical designer and usually I'm at my computer, my boss sends me an email, here's the project, and then I'm left to myself and I'm just listening to podcasts and YouTube videos and stuff in

the background all day. And this one day they were working on something at my desk, so they shoved me in the back corner into this like spare computer and I was directly across from like my boss's boss's office, and I usually don't interact with this guy, but since I'm like in the line of sight to his office, he felt the need to come up and like talk to me directly, and he came up with this project that he wanted me

to work on. So I'm listening. I was studying philosophy and I was listening to us to faun Mal a new video, and he said, Hey, I got this philosophy that I want to tell you about, but you have to understand where the guys coming from. And he says, I know it sounds stupid, but he believes in a hollow earth. And if you know, to understand his philosophy, you need to understand a little bit about hollow Earth. So if you've never heard about this, pause this video and

go, you know, watch a couple of things on hollow Earth. So I do this. I click on hollow Earth and I just clicked on the first video and then that's when my boss came out. So I took my earbuds out and I'm listening to him half hour later, I'm like, okay, I'm flying on this thing. I can put my earbuds back in,

so I pop them in. And of course this was back when the YouTube algorithm rhythm actually worked functioning, and so so you could like look up things that you really wanted to know about, and then it would take you to other things that we're actually pertinent and interesting. So by this time a half hour in, it had switched from Hollow Earth and it started on a flot

Earth video. So I stick my earbuds in and I was kind of half listening because I just wanted background basically, and so for like five minutes, I'm just kind of like absent mindedly. Got this plane in the background, and it was I think it was an Eric Dubay video, and and he was talking about that that Andy new Wiki photo of Chicago from like sixty miles away yep. And I I heard him say this, and he's talking about the map and how you shouldn't be able to see this, and I'm like,

wait, what what is this guy talking about? So I started listening, and then he's talking about like some lighthouse that you can see for forty miles away and it should be one hundred feet under the and I'm like, this is what is going on here? So I started listening and U but by the end of the day I'd gone through like ten or fifteen videos I

had. I went and talked to my uh my, my boss. And he's an engineer, right like a like a you know, so he's so he knows like derivative calculat you know, like he knows this stuff off the top of his head with like good with math and like perspective and all that stuff. So I went and asked him. I'm like, hey, when you got a break, I got a math question for you. So I told him about this photo and he starts doing the math, and then we're

up on the white board we're drawing pictures. We get on AutoCAD. We actually drew a full sized circle that was the size of the Earth, and then we zoomed in and we put like a six foot dude on there, and then we put the Sears tower up there and and did the distant and so we're looking at it visually and it's like, yeah, sure enough, like basically just the tip of the antenna of these things all you would be able to see and by the end of this, He's like, I don't

know there's something off either. He's like, I know that our math isn't off. He said, maybe maybe they're ing about the picture. I'm like, yeah, but this isn't the only thing I'm seeing, Like look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this. Uh, you know, the burst Khaliva Tower and the look at the you know, we're going through all this stuff. Well by the end of the week,

I'm a full on flat earth. I think he's basically there but doesn't want to say anything because he's embarrassing, right, But you just can't get past that. You can't get past the fact that you can see further than you should be able to see. I've seen I don't know if you've seen this picture of these these offshore oil rigs that are like you can see one at three miles and then behind that there's one at like six miles, and then there's one back here, and then you can still see water behind that.

That should not happen. Like to me, that's proof that either either we're on a flat plane or the globe is about one hundred and fifty times bigger than they're claiming it. Is, and you know, reasonably, the flat plane makes a lot more sense. So yeah, and there's so many cases like that. Um the sun, it's interesting when the races come through the clouds that if it's ninety three million miles away, why does it come through all the cloud Why do they go in space? Does it get darker

instead of lighter. There's so many things that we, I guess, took advantage of via the Rockefeller education system versus just using our common sense. And that goes back to what you were saying earlier about well, I'll have to defer to a subject matter expert right right, which is which? Like you said, it's a cop out because if if I, you know, if I'm trying to tell you a lie and I get stuck in my lie, I can just be like, oh, that's not my area of expertise,

exactly, go talk to go talk to this guy. What how did you take it? And did you immediately like when he went home that night, in the next several days, were you just driving down that rabbit holding consuming videos and information. You know, most people I hear say that they that they denied it and tried to debunk it for a long time and that it took a long time to get to the point where they could accept the flatter.

But I tell you what, George, after learning the money is just paper and you know, the control grid that we're under, and then having this this demonic experience and learning the truth of Christ and that everything is a lie, Honestly, when that came up to me, it was just like, well that makes sense. It wasn't immediate, but like I said, I I was consuming material for probably probably a week and a half, two weeks, just nothing but flatter stuff. And the more I dug into it,

the more sense it made. You know. I tried to debunk it. I tried to say no, because it's got to be a globe, and then, you know, how can everybody be wrong? And so I kind of tried to but I was pretty much right away leaning toward the flat, especially when I heard the biblical you know, the passages in the Bible that describe a flatter earth. Because after that, after pretty much right away,

I started looking up you know, biblical description of cosmology. I came across Oh, there was a Michael Heiser video where he goes over, you know, technically, yes, the language says we are a flat plane with a solid dome over the top of it, and the throne of God directly above at sun, moon and stars inside. And now he wasn't a flat earth or he said, well, that's just the language they use because that's what they understood at the time. But when I realized that the Bible literally

says we're on a flat or I there's no denying that. I mean to me, I don't think that you can make a case that the Bible in any way depicts in any sort of what the you know, secular astronomy says. I don't think it's even close. In fact, I think it's again one hundred and eighty degrees in the other direction. And it was pretty easy

for me to accept it. And did you feel the need to share that information with others or did you realize that you know, yeah, oh, I told everybody you know at this point, George, by that point in my life, I don't care what anybody thinks. It's important that it's important that people know the truth. I'll tell anybody anything, And I am unashamed, because what do I got to lose? What I'm gonna know, somebody's

not gonna like me. I could care less. I you know, like I said in the beginning, I you know, at a certain point I lost all my friends. I'm making new friends now. And if somebody's open to the truth, they're willing to hear anything. They might disagree or they might have questions. But if you're not open to the truth, you know, I'm gonna spit it at you. And if you're gonna just completely ignore

it, then that's that's on you. I really don't care anything at all about appeasing people's emotions or fallacies or because, like I said, I think that the times that we're living in the days are getting shorter, and it's imperative that truth is known by as many people as absolutely possible. And if I can have any sort of effect in that direction, then I'm gonna do what I can. I mean, that's why I started a podcast. That's why, you know, that's why I was reached out to you to be

on your podcast. I I just want to have that dialogue and I want to have what i'm learning get out. No I told everybody I could, and I actually have converts. My wife is accepted, and she she when I showed her the biblical scripture she was like, Oh, Okay, if the Bible says it, then that's you know, that's the way it is. Now. She didn't want to actually have conversations about it, you know,

because because I try and bring it up. She's just like, I don't want to talk about it anymore because I think it did upset her. But no, my my kids, we openly talk about it. We kind of mocked the school, and we kind of mocked the general narrative that's out in the world. We kind of laugh at him. They actually believe this, you know. So my kids have that. There's I've told three or four people in the church, and a couple of them have accepted it.

Again, They're like, oh, yeah, I think you're right. But yeah, I'm not gonna go telling people about it. And I'm like why not. I'm like, you tell people about the fallacies of evolution, don't you. Oh yeah, yeah, Well why wouldn't you tell them about the fallacies of cosmology? That's infinitely more important. And they just they don't want to look foolish. I guess, have you had that conversation with your pastor?

I did, and did well. I sent him, I sent him a video and I asked him what he thought of it, and he pretty much dismissed it out of hand. I've tried to bring it up a couple of times. I brought it up with with you know, just dropping seeds like things that, you know, just kind of hinting towards it, and he'll say things like, yeah, yeah, that kind of that makes sense or no, I've never questioned it in that way. But he's he's not

yet on board and in fact kind of vehemently against it. He's like, he's like, yeah, he's like, I hear what they're saying, and he said, but it's definitely a clobe and it's definitely you know, all of the all of the stuff that's said in the university is right, you know. So I'm working on it. That's interesting. I in my last interview with Steve, we kind of had that conversation, you know, what

percentage of the pastors out there have come across it? And then the other question was how many of them even if they said, oh, my goodness, I you know, and they go back and they read their Bible and they say, well, we do live on a flat earth from it,

and I hate to use this term. I'm not going to use that term as a business, but as a pastor in a world where one could argue that the congregation numbers are at its lowest, and you know, who knows how long how many of the pastors, what percentage of pastors would would have the courage to bring that forward to their congregation. It would be really hard if you had a congregation of people that listen to you, and you knew that something that you were going to bring up to them, you would end

up losing three fourths of your listeners. That would be a difficult thing to confront. But I don't know. Like I said, days are short, and if you're a pastor out there and you believe the earth is flat and you're scared to tell your congregation, I don't know. I would just encourage people to go ahead and say the truth. It's biblical, it's doctrine. This is doctrine, and this is the revelation of our day. This is the revelation that if people shared this doctrine and it was accepted by a large

enough amount of people, it could completely revolutionize all of society. Truly, God is showing us this for a reason, and it's because we're at that point in history where this has to be known. Lies have to be exposed, and he tells us that that all all lives will be exposed, and this I think is part of that. You know, obviously, when he shows up, everything's going to be exposed instantly, But that doesn't mean that the work isn't already begun. And I think that this flat earth doctrine is

that work beginning. You you had mentioned, I'm sorry, did you get if you want to go? No? Go ahead? I was. I was just going to add to that, but go ahead. You had mentioned that the globe is a huge part of the great deception? What what other parts would you say that are a part of this great deception that goes along

with the globe. So, based on my study and what I've come to accept is that the Genesis sixth narrative were fallen angels had relations with human women, and this produced the nepheline, which are now the demons that we deal with, the unclean spirits as Christ call them, because uh, you know, they can't get to heaven and there's you know, no place you know, they were never meant to be, and so they're wandering spirits on the earth, like the Book of Enoch says, and in the past they were

worshiped as gods and demi demi gods. You know, you got like Hercules and Occlees and you know all these other uh you know, god teens that ruled over the earth. I think preef And so they openly were out and being worshiped as gods. But in this time, they've converted society into believing in materialism, so there is no spiritual aspect to anything. So they want to but they want to bring their gods that they worshiped back into being worshiped.

So after converting everybody into materialism, they can't come out and say, oh, well, yeah, but these are the gods. Well what do you mean gods? There's no gods. So they have to bring them back in a different way. And I believe that's what the alien deception is. I think that they're you know, they've convinced us that the Earth is a globe. They've convinced us that their star systems millions of miles away or trillions

of miles away. They've convinced us that creation is well, they wouldn't even call it creation, but they they've convinced us that existence has been around for billions of years and that these societies have built up and that they're far superior to us and they're visiting us. So they're going to bring back their gods, which are the nepheline, and I think that's what these hybrid programs are.

I think there's a genetic component to it. I think so I think that the great deception is that the world is a globe and that there's aliens coming down and that they're going to be our over lords. And I think that that's how in this end, I think that they come back as as aliens as our saviors. I think that is the great deception, and I think that most people are going to accept it. And do you think,

by the way, it's a great time for me to pitch that. June or July twenty fifth a half Gary wayne On, and he is one of the subject matter experts on the Genesis sixth conspiracy. Did you buy into the bloodline theory that the people who are quote unquote ruling the world are part of the Genesis sixth conspiracy. You know, people talk about the flood, and I've heard people explain and in various ways how the bloodline continued. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think I think there's a lot

of validity to it. Either they themselves believe it. Either it's not true, but they believe it because this is where you get the divine right of kings, right, because they there there are bloodlines that literally trace their lineage

back and uh, and I don't know if it. I think it was actually Gary Wayne that I heard this from that that these bloodlines, like you look at um uh the King of England right now, he traces his bloodline back to uh Vladim Paler, the original Dracula, right and if you look and and uh, you'll be talking to Gary he would know more this. I think that this is where I got it from, that the Dracula actually

traces his lineage back to a fallen angel. That's interesting and so yeah, so I do think that there is validity to at least that's what they believe, and more than likely it is actually at least partly true. I mean, if indeed that is true, which I believe it is, because it's biblical that these fallen angels had offspring with human women and that they had a

lineage then I don't see any reason why that lineage wouldn't still exist. I know that the flood, and there's people say that the flood was purpose to wipe that lineage off the face of the earth. But then it says that Nimrod began to become a gibberim a mighty man, right, which is the same kind of thing that they called the Nephelim, right, the mighty man

the gibbers. And there are texts in the occult. Whether you want to studying the occult is difficult because you know, they ultimately worship Satan and he's the father of lies, and so there is a lot of deceptions, so there's a lot you have to like, and that's kind of well, yeah, whatever. But in occult history, if any of it's to be believed, there is there's a lot of talk of Nimrod saying that what he did was found some sort of pre flood artifact that had some technology attached to it

that he was able to utilize to become this gibberine. And I think the idea is that maybe he found a way to, I don't know, genetically modify himself with angelic DNA. If that makes sense. Yeah. Absolutely. And one of the reasons why I kind of brought that up was one of our listeners, Hillary from Ireland, had mentioned that the mud flat has been a hot topic. In the email from him, I'm trying to find like a subject matter expert who can come on and really give us a good kind

of audio thesis on it. And you know, she took some pictures. We see some buildings from back in the day that have like twenty five foot doors and the mud flood A lot of the reasons that that. I guess that ties more into hollow earth, which I guess is a flat earth with an inside and these people ran back. You know, a lot of it's conjecture. I try to stick to the biblical type of teachings. But have you ever I'll ask you now, have you ever ventured across the mud flood

theory? I have. It's really interesting. There's a lot of strange stuff going on there. Yeah. And some of the theories is the giants. That was them chasing being chased back to the center earth. M that's something like the Tatarian Empire, I guess is what it was. And you know that there is seems to be some resets during our time line. A lot of people think that these tie in with the World's fairs, right, there was there lots of pictures during that time period with just all these orphans,

these tiny little children. Where did these kids come from? Yeah, it's just astronomical accounts. So again it's there's a lot of interesting theories out there. I'm trying to find kind of a subject matter expert, and I know people have sent me some names on YouTube. I just need to reach out to them and try to get someone on to get an explanation. Then, you know, I like to put stuff out there and let the people decide for themselves if there's some you know, if it's valid or if it's not.

I was just last week I listened to a podcast and they had this guy on all all research and email you maybe you can like leave it in a description or talk about it later. But this guy went in, so he went into the mud flood. His idea was because he he digs around in ancient archaeology and he uh, he looks at like petrified forests and whatnot, and his idea was that there was some kind of like maybe possibly a plasma event of some sort like some kind of weapon that caused this this sort

of mud flood and that petrified trees. And he's talking about um uh yeah, like like descriptions of like tropical things up here, you know, like tropical environments up here in America. He's talking about in and he goes into he gets his information from old newspapers from like the late eighteen hundreds, in the early nineteen hundreds, so he goes into like the Egyptian stuff down in the Grand Canyon, and there's uh several articles about people that went up into

Alaska back like in the early nineteen like nineteen twenty I think, and there there was say, like they went down into this valley and there was like lava, like it was an active volcano, so there was lava under there and they were in like a like a huge valley and that lava kept everything warm and they found like a tropical environment in the middle of Alaska or something. I mean, it's interesting. It's I don't get too deep into the

mud flood stuff, but it definitely is interesting. There's a lot of a lot of stuff that should be explored, that's for sure. Yeah, I agree, And the reason I keep open to it is because I mean, I can tell you a man to man that we have been lied to about our history, recent history. We've been lied to about nine to eleven Oklahoma City, desert storm, you know, the Gulf War, Vietnam. So why would they not be lying about those type of things and events, right,

It would be strange that they weren't lying exactly right. That would go against the trend, for sure. I got I got um, I got buildings downtown and in Omaha, I can go and, uh, there's a sidewalk and there's a window, like the top of the window above us. What is that about? And then there's pictures. I've seen pictures when they were digging out like the main street here in town, this Dodge Street.

They were like digging it to like move. So I don't know what they were doing, but there's pictures, all black and white pictures, and they were digging down and there's like more to the building, like there's a whole other floor under where the street level is, which is there's something to that. And that's all over that's all over the country. Yeah, I've seen that as well. I concurred tell us a little bit about under the iceberg and where can people find know what it's on your web page? But is

it also is your podcast on like podcast distributors? Is it out there? It is? Uh. I put it out on on pod Bean, and I think I'm on a couple of other players. He says. The best place to find it is just through the website, and I put a link to Podbean, and then I also put a just a downloadable MP three file on it. Like I said, I think I have about six episodes out. I started just kind of laying out my worldview and where I'm coming from and what I believe. And I think from here, I want to start

maybe doing interviews, maybe pulling people in to do an interview. You know some authors that I've read their books, and maybe call them in and talk to them about their books. I'd like to do that, And I want to start gearing toward more. Now we know what's wrong, what's the solution, Like, where do we go from here? That's the million dollar question right right, That's the question of the day, is what now do we do? Yeah? And I think your point on walking away from the system

and starting our own is a great point. But the problem is getting that message out and getting people to come along for the ride, right well, and not getting caught in the middle meaning to yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, it's you know, it's this great idea where like you think, oh, well, let me just gather a whole bunch of people together and we'll just start a little community. Okay, Well, now, how many of them are feds or how many of them are gonna try and stop

here? You know, it's it's uh, it really has to be down to the individual and as many people that you can trust to bring in with you as you can. I think community is important. I think knowing your neighbors is important, and I think just you know, I I think that for most people, I think just dropping the seeds with people and letting God grow those seeds is important because that does bear fruit either one way or the other, and then it's a good way of separating. I'm I don't know.

I feel like I have more of a calling to kind of talk to people that already are awake and kind of just having these conversations like you and I are having about well, you know, we know about this, we know about that. You know what is what is the next level of this? Where do we go from here? I think I think trying to wake up people that are asleep, I don't think that I'm equipped for doing that. I think there's other people that can. They can try and reach the

uh, the unaware. I don't have much luck with that. Like I said, I'm very blunt, and I just stick it out there and let it go where it goes. And sometimes it sometimes it works out, and sometimes they just don't want to ever talk to me again, and that's fine. But you know, there's also people out there that have different receptors. Some people need breadcrumbs, some people need uh like like your kind of delivery, just in your face type of This is the way it is. And

I'm not ashamed of my feelings and uh you know my belief system. So and the more folks we get out there spreading the word, the better chance

we have to fall into someone's algorithm. And we've had so many people over the last I guess we've been going for between seven and eight months now who have started their own podcast, And I'm sure you're going to get a ton of emails and messages and hopefully you all can kind of share each other's platforms and become guests on each other's you know shows and grow your audiences and and just you know, be a part of this you know, great awakening that

we are experiencing. Part of it is people like you and all the other guests that we've had that have been come, you know, willing to come on and share your thoughts and kind of your experience and your life stories. And also the evil doers that have overplayed their hands and things like COVID and things of that nature where people are like, wait a second, this isn't right. And even I can see even some of the normalist of normism,

you know, kind of have woken up. So with both of those things going along, I think that we can make a dent and ring people to God. Yeah, I agree. Um, there's there's people that I never thought would have anything to do with anything higher level thought past you know,

who played a football game last week? Or you know, what's the weather like or things like that, And and now all of a sudden, with with with COVID and this whole um, this whole sodomite agenda, and people are starting to look around and say, whoa wait a minute, where'd this come from? And now they're asking questions and you know people that people that used to like laugh at me when I bring something up, Now they're coming to me saying, hey, hey, what do you think about this?

I heard about this. You should know about this. It's encouraging extremely And it's under the Iceberg dot net and the link dot net, and his link to his website is in the show description and he's got lots of places on there to contact us and leave your name, email, his email, everything is there right there on the home page. Don't miss it, jealous, been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today. I'd like to give you kind of the last word. Sure. Yeah, it's been a great time.

I've really enjoyed this conversation and thank you for what you're doing. I think it's amazing that so many people are interesting. I think you said you had like one hundred and fifty downloads on some of your stuff, and I think that's just amazing. That's encouraging. Yeah. I would like to tell people that when you come to a truth, don't be afraid to just express that

truth and tell everybody. When I look back at you know, I listened to sermons that were written back in the eighteen hundreds and nobody was scared to tell the truth. Nobody was scared to come out and just say bluntly exactly what's going on. And it just seems like today nobody wants to hurt anybody's feelings. Or your truth is just as valid as my truth, and that's just a lie. That's not true. There is truth, there is objective

truth, and this postmodernism is bunk. Just throw it in the trash because it's completely worthless. If you find something that is true and it's important, share it, and you know, right now you've got you know, friends and neighbors, and we have this access to podcasts and anybody can start a podcast, anybody can do a video on really not YouTube anymore, but anybody can get the word out. And if you think that what you have to

say is important and valid, get it out there. Or even if you just have questions, just you know, make your voice heard and ask those questions. There will be people out there that can that can answer or at least have something to contribute to the conversation. I think everybody has something to

contribute, and we've lost that in recent decades. We've been pushed down and count out into thinking that you know, live and let live to each his own and which basically is a Satanic doctrine to do what thou will, and we need to get rid of it. We need to kick it in the trash and never look back on it again and just start doing things the way that they should be done. And that's pretty much my message. Amen.

And by the way, thanks for mentioning that I wanted to say. We just went over four hundred thousand downloads and we just kicked this thing off November thirtieth, so you know, that's proof of the pudding that we are. People are kind of waking up and are interested in this topic. And it's not thanks to me. It's thanks to all the people who come on here and have contributed to this program and have been willing to share this podcast.

And my thanks to Jail and everyone else who's been a guest on this program. Jail again, it's been an absolute pleasure meeting you. And again, I hope everybody visits under the Iceberg dot net. It will be in the show description, and you know, just God bless everyone, be well and keep us in your prayers, and let's keep fighting the good fight and keep your head on a swivel and until next time, my friends, we will see you