The following presentation isn't now margat Studios Production. Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files. I hope this podcast finds everyone well and I hope you all had a great weekend. We have a great guest joining us in just a moment at Mike and before we do that, before we bring them on, just a reminder, please join us on our website. It is the flat earth Files dot
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earth Files at gmail dot com. Again, that is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. And by the way, it's always the emails. The website address will always be in the show description, so please do send us an email say hello if you'd like to join us. On the program like so many others have, including Mike today, please do send us an email at the flat Earth Files at gmail dot com. All right, now, that that's the way, let's bring on our guests for today, and
we'd like to welcome Mike to the program. Mike, thank you for joining us today. How are you, hey, I'm doing well. Thanks a lot, George. I really appreciate you having me on the podcast. By the way, Oh you're You're quite welcome and I'm so happy to have you.
And like we were talking briefly before we started recording it, it's really awesome to get so many different points of view from around the world, different backgrounds, and everybody has their own opinions and thoughts, and you know, I've learned a lot speaking to everyone, and I'm sure I'm going to learn something from you as well. Why don't we kick things off kind of by
introducing yourself? Okay? Um? Yeah, So Mike, I have been born and raised in northern New England, so here we kind of run the gamut with the weather, which you know, I'm kind of used to at this point. But a lot of people around the country look at our situation and wonder why we live here, but I love it and unless God calls me out, I'll be here. I'm a lifer and so yeah, so I raised my kids here and we live in an old circus seventeen nineties farmhouse
and we just love it. That's amazing. I'll tell you there's something to home, because you know, I was born and raised in Delaware, and then I ended up traveling around the world in the military, and I lived in for three years. I lived in Hawaii, which people think that's paradise. I found it so unusual, being eighty two degrees on Christmas Day, right, It's just the memories you have often aligned with the weather and the surroundings, and it was just weird for me, and I never got used
to it. And I was actually, as crazy as it sounds. I was ready to leave Hawaii after my three years and get back to somewhere where we have four seasons, which we experience here. Yeah. I am the same way when I travel. I've traveled a fair amount and I always think about, like could I live here? And and then you know, so the answers always know, and I head home and I started seeing the Roland Hills and the evergreens, and I don't. I just love it. That's
fantastic. So I've heard a lot of um things about like homeschooling and stuff like that. We did. My kids are both grown. I was married young. Um my wife and I've been married for twenty seven years this year and I'm forty six, So do that, and so both of my kids are are grown and out. And but we did homeschool, and um, just like, like I won't stay on this for too too long, but just like we had all the same objections that everybody else had, you know,
well what about the socializing and all that stuff. And of course, you know, we were involved in other things our church. You know, we were very active in the church, and we had the kids involved in different sports and stuff. So there was definitely plenty of interaction. But like, the goal we always thought was not to have them be able to interact with kids, but the goal was to get them to interact with adults. You know, that when they became adults, that they wouldn't be like perpetual
children or something, you know. So um, you know, so I think that what we did really prepared them for their adult lives. And they ended up taking some classes when they got into high school because we're allowed to do that in this area, which stands the reason we pay taxes. So anyway, they got into like about four classes or so when they got into high school, and they were like top of their class. So as far as like academically, it was incredibly effective. And my wife, she didn't
even use a curriculum. I don't know if you've ever heard of the style, but it's like a relaxed homeschooling and the premise is that kids are sponges. They learn, that's what they do. And so you know, as long as they're reading all the time and writing, they're going to learn. And that's pretty much what they did. They just read all the time and they wrote a lot, and and then you know, like like I said, when they got into the traditional classroom in high school, they were just
they flourished. That's so awesome to hear, and I really champion homeschool and in retrospect, I wish I would have done it with my older daughter because our younger one now obviously at that point we haven't had we didn't have the homestead, but learning life skills, you know, with growing food and raising chickens in addition to like you said, just challenging her, I would say that most people, even at the high school level, couldn't write cursive,
couldn't read cursive, or most of the children for the last decade haven't even hasn't even used a pencil. Everything has been like tablet based, which I
do think is cheating the children. And if you know, we ever go backwards in technology, and don't say we can't because it happened with NASA, right, you know, these are the important things that it may sound old school and boomerash to a lot of people, but I think learning these things going back to just a few years ago, somebody took a test and gave it to I think there were sophomores a test that was given to tenth graders
back in the eighteen eighties or eighteen nineties, and very few past it. It was like ten percent. I think, you know, reading, writing, and arithmetic, those three bay supremises, and I mean writing not not spelling on a tablet is very important. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's interesting. Um I have my own business now, I'll talk about that later, but um I have interaction with a lot of people, you know, and I find that with the with the people, the clients that are ten
to fifteen years younger than myself. As I'm texting or emailing, it's incredible to me how bad the spelling and grammar is. Um. I mean, and I'm not a genius by any means with that, but I feel like I did have I came on the tail end of the you know where that was still taught in school, So it's just kind of surprising to me. Yeah. No, I think texting on the cell phone has has bled in to education. It's I've noticed that is why. And again I'm not a
genius as well. I'm just just a guy. But I've noticed very much in emails with folks that I do think the text culture has bled into just basic English. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you want me to just kind of roll on, So absolutely, we go ahead and run with it. Okay. So I really appreciate your podcast. I found it like two months ago. Maybe I'm a bad judge of time, so it could be, you know, three months, four months, but in my mind it's
been about two months. I've been kind of binge listening to a lot of the different episodes, and I remember the first couple that I listened to that hooked me. You had just regular people on there, and I was fascinated because you don't get to talk to a lot of people about blad earth. I mean, it's it's just so taboo, and you know, you're reluctant
to bring it up, and they're reluctant to bring it up. So sometimes you know, you could be talking with somebody that is a flat earth of you never know it because neither one of you wants to bring it up. But um, so I just really enjoyed hearing the journey of like regular people. By what I mean by regular people, just like they're not celebrities, they're just like me. They're just working every day and doing anything. And as I listened, I noticed that there were a lot of similarities to my
journey, and it was it was kind of delightful to hear. And so then at the end of the episodes, you were like inviting people to come on your podcast, and I was like, man, that is incredible. That what a great opportunity. So as time went on, I listened to more episodes and I thought, man, I really want to go on the
podcast and share my story. Um and I think I think I do have a little bit of something unique, UM, because I haven't heard a lot of people from from my kind of circles UM interjecting in this, and so I come from like a more of a reformed Baptist position. I know there's a lot of a lot of different Christians UM denominations and people that have come on the show, and I just want to get one, UM, one caveat to some people that might be listening that you know, may may just
roll our eyes when I when I started talking about Christianity. UM, I do plan on talking about my journey to blad Earth, and I do think that I might have some things that would be interesting to you to listen to just strictly in that genre. UM. But I can't divorce that from UM my knowledge of the Bible and my faith because they're so intertwined. So so I'll try to try to be concise, and I guess we'll talk about my journey to flat Earth, and then that will probably lead into other things.
Yeah, And I just wanted to remark on one thing is you had mentioned early about how difficult it is to talk to people like locally in your area
or whether it be family, about this type of thing. And I will tell you that the email I get the most is exactly that, you know, I'm I'm in this location, I do this, and I just they actually say, like, I feel lonely because you know, I do think when when you start to go down, I guess when you get red pilled or you wake up whatever the term you want to use is the worldly things, whether it be sports, music, movies, that kind of goes by
the wayside, and you do become a different person, and for many it does lead to a closer faith to God. And but with that being said, the most email or the email I get the most is, you know, I don't have anybody to talk to. And I'm glad that this podcast kind of worked out because it is like a family and you get to listen to like minded people and obviously we all have our differences of opinions and backgrounds, but that's kind of what the world is about. So I appreciate you
bringing that up. Yeah, So let's see. I think it was in two thousand and seventeen I started to to get into the conspiracy theories a little bit. Actually, prior to that, I did delve into like giants, the biblical giants and stuff like that. So and I think that kind of
is along the lines of the you know, in the conspiracy genre. So and that's actually where I got acquainted with Rob Skiba, because before he was involved with the flat earth stuff, he was actually huge visit churches and do presentations giants and even like I saw one where he talked about like American sites that haven't been excavated and like Smithsonian cover up of things that have been found in the United States, and so that was kind of fascinating, and I
followed him a little bit through that journey, and then as I got into the flat earth videos and stuff, I started seeing him pop in as a skeptic. And then I actually saw a few people, like fairly well known YouTubers come to that realization and I saw their journey, So it was really interesting. I got in a time I think it was just after what they call like the golden age of flat Earth on YouTube, like right around twenty fifteen from what I understand. But yeah, my son, so I was
completely in the matrix. I grew up in it, and I was completely unsuspecting that there was anything else. So it's it's not like I can't point back to anything as a kid and say, yeah, I was always skeptical of this or that. I definitely, I definitely do. I think that the cosmology was odd to me. It was hard for me to understand, like how things were so far away and big and everything. But yeah,
I didn't really suspect anything. And I was definitely on board with like NASA and matter of fact, so I was a toolmaker prior to being my own business. I was a tool maker for twenty five years, um and the last one of those, see twenty years ago. I would have been close
to twenty years ago. I started working at this engineering firm and they primarily made got new work on government projects, and so we contracted for NASA and UM I actually made some key components that are supposedly on the Mars rovers. That's a fun fact. Yeah. So but I was really proud of that.
You know, I had an award from NASA, you know, my bureau so and of course, you know, once the rovers were launched and everything, you know, they NASA sent sent back, um you know, photos and everything for everybody to GAUCAT and I was just amazed at the CGI images they were sending and everything. Um, So that's that's all to say that I was really I was unsuspecting. I was in the matrix, and um, you know, I was aware of conspiracy theories, but I kind
of thought they were stupid and not really worth any time. So, um, my son actually said, hey, Dad, you got to watch this video. It's a movie on nine to eleven, you know, conspiracy theory and everything. I was like, yeah, I guess I had some leisure time, so I said, I'll check it out. So so I think we watched together and I was just blown away. I think the show ended
and then my mouth was wide open. I couldn't believe it. And so that was like my first real exposure to a like a legitimate conspiracy theory on that um, and I was like, holy cow, I mean this is real, this is like it didn't take me long to realize that that there was massive lies involved with that. And shortly after that I started to investigate the moon landing, and I never really gave it a whole lot of thought. I just I thought, I can't believe people would think that that we
would fake that, you know, It's just ridiculous to me. And so as I started to research I think one thing that got me on that was Bart Sibrel approaching the astronauts and and basically saying, when you swear on the Bible that you and I watched that video and one after another they're like punching him, spitting on I'm running away, you know. Just I was amazed. I was like, um, I just thought, even if they didn't want to swear on the Bible or something, I just thought the reactions were
very inappropriate and like very suspicious. So that actually caused me to want to look into it more. And so I watched a little bit more material from Bart Zabrel and then there's only so far you can go. I mean, I didn't know what I had for resources other than YouTube, so I just I just kind of, you know, exhausted whatever I could with that. And of course, you know a lot of times they hide, you know, they're really good ones anyway, So I just didn't have the energy,
I guess at the time. And I was kind of raised a family and everything, and I didn't care all that much. So I guess as I I kind of put that back in my mind somewhere, you know, for a later, for a rainy day that probably we probably didn't go land on the moon. But there's also all these questions like why would we why would they lie? Why would they do that? You know that there's got to
be, you know, some reason. And then all this time, you know, when I would sit down, i'd have some time to watch videos. Usually on a Friday night or Saturday or something, I would see flat Earth videos on YouTube kind of float by on the newsreel or whatever they call it, and I would literally just skip over them like I didn't even see it. And and then eventually I think I got so bored with the other stuff, like I exhausted everything that was entertaining enough to watch on some of
these other conspiracy theories. I just thought, well, I have some time, it's the weekend or whatever. I'll just you know, wife and daughter are really close and they would just hang out, and my son and I would just you know, hang out together, so we were would watch YouTube videos, or if he was with his buddies or something, I'd be by myself and um. And so I decided to just see what these guys were saying. And my attitude towards this whole idea was, Wow, these guys
have way too much time on their hands. This is stupid. They don't they probably don't even have jobs. They gotta you know, this is just this is just stupid, you know. But I want to see what makes them tick, you know. So I think one of the first videos that I clicked on was at Eric bay video. Um, and I want to say, I want to say this while I'm here, Um, you had a previous guest to talk about like these guys um being like Jesuits or something
like that. Right, And like, as a Christian, I'm obviously filtering information as I go and I'm trying to make sense of it within my worldview. And like I understand that people who are not Christians have lashed onto some of these conspiracies and have really dug in and exposed some truths. And like Eric Debay's non exception, I mean, he definitely has put out some really
good content. Not all of it is truth in my opinion, and I don't even think he would say it's absolutely truth, but like he's he was putting things out there and and it's it was consistent with his worldview. You know what, what do we expect from people who don't price they don't know
the Lord. Um, you know, they're not going to be putting out purely biblical content and not going to be submitting to you know, God's word, and so um, you just kind of have to filter through it, um and see some of the benefits from you know, the work that they've done, and I mean, I hate to say it, but sort of dismissed the other stuff and hope that you know, the truth was revealed more
and more. And UM, that's where I stand. I don't want to like completely dismiss like Mark Sargeant and Eric to Bay because they're you know this or that. You know, maybe they're not, um, they're not exactly spot on and maybe you know, just like anybody else, they need they need a relationship with Jesus. But um, anyway, that's where where I stand with that. So I started watching UM and Eric to Bay video.
I think that was the first one clicked on, And the things that ran through my mind before I even clicked on the video were simple things like what about the sunrise and sunset? What about circum navigation? I mean, come on, guys, it's like elementary here, you know. So and as I'm watching the video, those simple questions are like easily dealt with UM,
with the model it's being presented. UM, I know that there's not like one hard fast model, but the idea that UM that that everything is geocentric, the earth is stationary, and um, you know the sun rises and sets due to perspective. I mean that that really made a lot of sense within its own framework. So I said, okay, oh, I mean, I guess that answers some of the simple questions. Circumnavigation is just doing a circle around, you know, east and west or west right. I
started to investigate that more. And knowing that, you know, the attempts to certain navigate north to south you can count on like one finger. UM, I thought that was pretty interesting because you know, you wouldn't be able to circa navigate north to south on a flat earth. So that's right. UM. So anyway, that was my first exposure, and I said,
Okay, I'm a little intrigued, and I wanted to know more. I wanted to see more like what was out there at that point, and so I just I kept watching, Um I did I think I watched two hundred proofs. I watched all kinds of M dubay videos and M jarinism and trying to think who else m O d DTV. He was like an early kind of pioneer in my journey. Ye, probably David Weiss as well. Right. Ivid White said he didn't come into the picture for me until later.
I think I was before before him when I when I got into it, it was like twenty seventeen. I think. Okay, so we were still doing traditional conspiracy videos at that time. He hadn't jumped on flat Earth yet. I was in one of the biggest Um, let's see, there was a Patricia Steer um, Brian Mullen um, and I wanted to talk about him later. Um. But he's the one that did balls out physics, right, I think Eric de bay jarinism Um. There was a couple others
one that I that was really good. I think he's still out there. Is Beyond the Imaginary Curve. It's a he's a I think he's a Scottish guy named Dell. Have you ever heard of that? Beyond the Imaginary Curve doesn't ring about? That's a YouTube channel on YouTube. Um, and he's his accents a little bit difficult to understand that, Like it's that thick. It's hard it's hard to understand him, but he um. I saw a
little bit of a journey with him too. Um. I think he was more or less than atheist when I first started watching him, and I've seen a little bit of an evolution with him, which is kind of cool. But he Um, he does a lot of stuff on the street. Like he'll go to a university and um, like catch people going in or trying to talk to like, you know, professors and stuff like that, and he's really trying to He's really into the scientific element of it. Yeah.
I'm looking at his channel now, looks like he does a lot of experiments. Yeah. Yeah, um, so he just started doing that. I think when I was watching him, he was doing a lot of street stuff. Um, some of some of them are pretty interesting. But yeah. So um, I think I remained a skeptic on the flat earth stuff, or I think it took me about almost two years to get to the point where I was like ready to say, uh, I'm a flat Earth you
know, I think. But the thing is, I definitely was probably eight months before I admitted it to myself, But I just I think it was safer to say, like, I'm still I'm leaning heavily that way, but I'm still you know, researching, and sure so, but eventually I get to the point where and I think what it was for me is like I matched up the Biblical testimony with natural revelation, natural revelation being what we experience in the real world every day, and it was just a no brainer to
me. I became hard to believe that we were on the spinning ball hurling through space. So and that's where I'm at right now. I just it's so clear to me that that we're not moving, that we live on a flat stationary you know, geocentric or just as the Bible says. And yes, somebody I can't remember, it's one of the last ones that I listened to a couple of podcasts to go. Somebody said that it's not necessarily clear in the Bible that we live on a flat earth, but it's it is
geocentric. I remember a couple of there was like one scripture in Revelation it talks about I think it was when um they Satan and his minions were like thrown into the abyss or whatever, and then they came up out of it. They said, let let us go up to the breath of the earth or something like that, the breath meaning the plane of the earth. I think it's even the Greek words like platanos or planos or something like that, which comes from plane. So I did look into that a little bit,
and there's there's definitely things that can be pointed to biblically speaking. But so yeah, so um, I guess that's pretty much the last thing I'd say about the flatter journey for me before I actually admitted it to myself was I think I watched Brian Mullens series called Balls Out Physics, and of course when his series starts out, he is more or less pleading with people to like tell him where he's gone wrong, and you know, he he just he
wants to know the truth, and he's kind of disturbed at what he's finding, and so like he talks about how into space that he was, and you know, he said, I just watched Interstellar and it was unbelievable, and you know this and that, and then he said that trying to think. I don't know how he was introduced to as somebody told him it was
flat or whatever. So he I think he lived in Florida somewhere, and he grabbed some optical equipment, went to a local beach, and he said that based on the miles across to the to the next beach, it should have been completely hidden physically by the water. And he said he did some quick calculations and sure enough, he could see the entire beach, and that really made him understand that it's different scenario than he thought. Yeah, I
enjoy watching him. Is he still doing his thing or is he kind of backed off? Because I haven't. I don't because I've subscribed to him. I'm not sure I remember seeing any videos lately. Well, the I'm not sure if he's anywhere else on the internet. He used to be on YouTube and Facebook and all this stuff, and I don't believe that he even has a YouTube channel anymore. I think the videos that you watch on YouTube are recording that's right there, like on the flat Earth, Sun, Moon and
Zodiac camp. They're on other people's Oh I'm seeing it now. Yeah, Well, the rumor. I was actually concerned about him because he just disappeared, like for a while he was literally going gangbusters. I mean, he did the balls out physics and then he was on Patricious Sierra had a show called Flat Earth and Other Hot Potatoes was pretty popular at the time, and he was on that show. He was heavily involved in a documentary called Scientism.
You ever heard of that? Yes, I have, yep. Okay, so yeah, he was involved in that, and then he vanished and somebody said, I think I was reading in a comment thread, I guess his job was threatened and he had just I know, he just got married towards the end of the YouTube thing. He got married and they were having a child and everything, and I'm pretty sure he didn't want to destroy his career at that point. So, yeah, you know you mentioned that.
I think I do recall either somebody in an email or in a conversation offline, mentioning exactly that whereever he worked, they were like, you need to step away from this because you're making whatever where he worked looked bad. So I think there's something too that I do recall someone mentioning that. Yeah. So yeah, so you kind of live in a free country. But which leads me to my next topic, or one of the next topics. I
do want to interject into a couple of things. First and foremost, that verse you were talking about, I believe was Revelation twenty verse nine that says, and they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the saints about and the beloved city, and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. Yeah, okay, yeah, the breath, I think the breath that word if you investigate that in the Greek,
I think that is like platanos or something like that. I don't know Greek, so yet, definitely look at strong exhaustion concordans whenever I whenever I need to get the Greek or Hebrew meaning. There you go, and apparently there is some connection to like solemn It's temple as well, that word in Greek. Yeah, you go back to first Kings. Yeah, and as far as Rob Skiba and but I already have that link to put in the show description. You know, the most popular video he ever did was actually about
the Nephelum and how they've returned after the flood. That that video alone has like four million views, So he discusses a lot more than just the flat earth. So I if the people listening haven't seen a lot of his videos, I have the video's link popular on down definitely check some of those out.
They're very, very intriguing. Yeah, I agree, And I, like I said, I kind of witnessed his journey, and I know he's born again Christian too, so I was really ravitated toward him as he first started stepping in, just to see how he would react and how he would deal with some of the the things within the flat earth community. So um. And then I also watched I don't know if you've ever heard a wholen
Benjamin, but I remember watching him. He was supposed to state character something and he was really belligerent and and like literally just drinking um on the show and and cussing all the time. And and then I watched him sort of slowly evolved and become frustrated that he was becoming a flat Earth. Yeah. I remember watching that video where he basically has a melt down and can't believe that because that's a big deal. It is because I went through the same
thing. It's like, if they're lying about this, my goodness, then everything else has to be a lie. And that kind of really you know, RV Truth always talks about being a baby truther or if you believe all the other conspiracy conspiracies, except for flat Earth. That's the mother of all conspiracies, because it really is one of the biggest weapons they use against us
is to hide God in his creation. I believe, yeah, absolutely, Um, you know, I was going to mention two that you know, anytime that I've gotten into a conversation about flat Earth, you know, it always especially with people that you have to be discerning obviously, but when people are intrigued and they you can tell they're listening to what you're saying, and they're it's resonating with them, like, yeah, that's really interesting, you
know. Um, it's not long before when before they basically raise the objection that, well, how could this be so ubiquitous, how could this lie you know, be so big, And there's like everybody would have to be in on it, and and so it always goes there. Um it's never like it's never about the evidence, it's never about the biblical testimony. It's always about no, it's just too big of a lie. I can't believe
it, you know. And it's like, of course, you know, I would explain compartmentalized you know, compartmentalized station or whatever, where you have people that have jobs to do, and they don't necessarily know the big picture, Like every engineer doesn't need to know that we're not actually going to space because the math works. You can have math work with a false premise or a false axiom. You know, it all can work. Sou Where was
I going with that? So? Yeah, So anyway, I always say, I think if conspiracies we're moving towards an end of like say, wealth or power, then I kind of agree that the lies or they don't really make a whole lot of sense. It has to be more than that, because why would anybody these lives go generationally? So why would anybody be involved in a lie that they wouldn't benefit from? You know what I mean?
If you were involved in a conspiracy, if you're an evil person and you just wanted money and power, then I'd say you'd want to be wealthy by the time you were at least like forty, you know, or fifty. It's yes, whole life trying to trying to you know, lie to lie to people and get wealthy, and then what achieved it when you're fifty or sixty? And then I know, it doesn't really make a whole lot of
sense to me. And then some people that are involved in like the Secrets is societies and them you know, or illuminati, whatever you want to call it, that are involved in these big lies, actually get sacrificed along the way, you know. So it's like it's definitely more than it's more than wealth and power, because it doesn't make sense that that people would pursue that
if they wouldn't if they weren't able to realize that in this lifetime. There's definitely a spiritual element to it. So that's why I say it's satanic. There's more to it. Um. The fact that's generational. I think somebody on your show said once that they think that, you know that the people within the secret societies are kind of like working toward goals in each generation.
It's almost like they have tasks to complete and um. And then you know, then the next generation has their set of tasks, and it's like all this this web of lies from like you said, the foundational lie, which is the lie of the cosmological eye, that kind of leads to all the other ones. Um. And so I think one first that gives a lot of credence to that to why why the lie? Why the cosmological eye?
Is Roman. They're gonna go there and just read that if you don't mind not Romance chep My favorite verse actually, and it was even before I knew about blad Earth right. Find it here. So it says and Romans one twenty for since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and God,
so that they were without excuse. So that's powerful. Yeah, I think that if if it's if we just understand what the Bible is telling us, then we would know that the natural revelation is a revelation given such that men are without excuse of you know, based on the things that are made,
we can understand the God of the Bible. And so it frustrates me a little bit when I hear people debating atheists and whatnot and they give up that high ground and they they kind of start with no God and they try to work up to Okay, now there's a God and then blah blah blah, and it's like the Bible tells us that everybody knows a matter of fact,
let's see. Yeah, yeah, if you go back, just back up to verse eighteen, says, for the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppressed the truth and unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. So this is where I kind of want to kind of go off the flat earth trail a little bit, because it does really mingle. Obviously, I think a characteristic of a Christian is they love the
truth. That is something that we should have in common, all of us as Christians. And so is it important. Absolutely. It just read in Romans one twenty that the things that are made they testify of the God of the Bible. Doesn't mean they testify of the God of Islam or the God of you know, Hindu or whoever. It's it's like it's such that we are without excuse. I mean, so if we just believe what the Bible says, that's the whole premise behind. I also got to being a reformed
person. I really got into what they call presuppositional apologetics and what that is is like, basically, as Christians, based on this verse and other things, the Bible says, where to presuppose the God of the Bible. That's the axiom by which we can know all things. You know, if you give that up, you undermine all absolute knowledge, so and the other. And you you know, you're you're also denying the fact that the person that you're talking to knows, because, like I said, in verse eighteen,
it says they suppress the truth. Why did they suppress the truth? They suppress it in unrighteousness, That's what the Bible says. So just knowing that up front, you know, it's it gives you kind of like a starting point. And and I think one thing that's been clear to me through my flat Earth journey. I thought, as I admitted to myself, yeah, I think the earth is flat. It's stationary, it's geocentric. And I was like, there's no way if somebody understands this that they would deny God.
There's no way, right, And but you know, again, what does the Bible say of the unbeliever there they're enmity with God, they're slaves to sin, they're dead and their trespassed and sin Phesians chapter two. And so one thing I found out as I started going down that journey is regardless. So it's not a knowledge problem that we have human beings. It's not that we just don't know enough, but we don't understand, you know,
the nature of the earth enough. It's like we're so rebellious and we suppress the truth so voraciously that even when we find out that we live in a terrarium, we still deny God. Yeah, it's incredible to me that the depths of evil and the human heart and so I mean, don't you think that's wicked that we could know that and still deny our creator? Yeah,
that's an understatement. But again, knowledge is power. And I get so many emails because some people will say, well, why is flatterth so important? Where it's flat or around, We're still going to go about our day. I still got to wake up and go to work. And you know, I tell people that question is loaded. There's more than one answer to that. Number one, as an American taxpayer, you should be livid that a certain agency is getting billions of dollars a year to lie to you.
But I mean, that's nothing compared to eternity. And again, when you realize that this place was created especially for us, and that you're not an
accident. Your forefathers didn't crawl up out of the water and evolve into an ape and eventually into a human that you were you know, chosen to be here at this particular time, which I tell people that you should be humbled and grateful that God shows you to be here now because these look nobody knows when the end times are, but these are certainly troubled times, and these are the times when great men and men who red men and women represent God
are to stand up and fight this evil that is you know, when I grew up in the eighties, obviously there was some evil. We just didn't see it, um right for what it was. But now they don't even hide it anymore. Just look at what's going on in the last three years. So UM, it is very important. Yeah, no, I agree, And I think, you know, going back to natural revelation, I think when I think it's important just for that um, that natural revelation to
be maybe it's the only revelation that you will have. You know. It's like some people they they don't have um the Bible in their life for whatever reason it um, but they but they do have natural revelation. Everybody has that. So it's definitely important. And you know, I find it interesting too that that as as people um get into or live in in the lies,
as they kind of further and further immerse themselves and into lies. UM. I think I was reading in Second Tassalonians, God will actually give you over strong delusions so that you believe it more. You know, it's like you can have what you want. That's that's like the beginning of God's wrath. You know, this place to be to be given over. And UM, you know, there's there's been a lot of talk to about UM. I think I think I even heard you say like Satan owns the world or
something like that. I don't know if I'm accurately quoting you, Like, UM, I know that there's something to him like offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world. I went through. Um, I've got like twenty verses here right now, UM that talk about uh, the earth being the Lord's and that's again part of the reform tradition. I'm not sure if you're aware of what you know. It's like, yeah, it's you, it's nothing new. You guys are just going back to its roots basically. I mean,
would you consider it going back to Reformation itself sort of yeah. I mean, I guess in terms of the sovereignty of God um in salvation and um basically over overall things. Like I would say that, um, just look at look at Job. For example, the example of Job, UM, where you have Satan approaching God and basically basically asking permission to afflict Job. And God has the power in that case to either yay or nay. And it's like, yeah, you can, you can afflict him, but you
can't do this and you can't do that. Um. And then if you look at you know, some of Job's actions to what was happening, what he said, Uh, you know, the Lord giveth and Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. You know, it's like he's God, you know. UM. So I think it just comes to a proper, proper perspective of who God is and who we are, where we stand in the in the grand scheme of things. Yea. And like just for example, let's see there's, uh, there's a couple of verses written
down here. Uh, of course I'm the one while you're looking for that, the one a Job, which again this is the God's creation. But uh, people need to know Satan is active, and he is here. He's well, he's here, like you said, job too too. It says, where have you come from? The Lord asked Satan, and Satan answered the Lord, I've been patrolling the earth watching everything that's going on.
So he is literally here. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I just um, you know, like I guess, I fit Satan's ability within the framework of God's sovereignty. So another um, you know, he's able to do what what God allows him to do. But it's working towards um, like a culmination, and everything's going to work toward the glory of God, whether it's mercy or wrath. So you know where Satan does have certain goals and
powers and whatever, Um, they're submissive powers. I think I heard a Baptist preachers say there is a devil, but as God's devil um, and so like them. It's funny I wrote these verses down, but I um winds like the earth is the Lord and everything in it. Um, the
earth is the Lord's and everything in it is one I wrote down. Um. They most most of the stuff that I wrote down, UM, I had to do with like the preservation of God's word, um, the preservation of the church, A lot of people talk about the churches though it needs to be restored, and it's like not, not really. I mean, there's always been wheat and chaff. Um, you know, within the scope of God's people. Um, and you know the harvest at the at the
harvest that there will be a separation there. But um, just because there's wheat among the chaff, doesn't chaff among wheat doesn't mean that there's not a spotless pride in there. Um. That's a great analogy, by the way, that's a great phrase. Yeah, and there really, there really is. I mean I think that that comes right from for Peter. So yeah, so like it's the church is the bride of Christ. And I don't know, like it's it's not something that you think about. What he said
to Peter. He's like, upon this work, I will build my church. So he's like, what do you say, I will build? So Jesus is building my church. His church you know, in the gates of hell will not prevail. So it's not something that needs to restore. The churches is God's bride and will serve its purpose. Same thing with God's word. I mean, there's so many there's so many verses that talk about his word enduring forever. Um. So it's like forever a Lord, your word
is firmly fixed in the heavens. M. John won One in the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. I mean literally, Jesus became flesh and dwelled among us. Jesus is the Word in bodily form. He's the Word of God. And so like everything that we have in scripture is embodied in Him and the New in the New Testament especially, but also in the Old Hebrews, chapter one,
verse one. But yeah, so, like I think what I'm going here is there's a lot of um talk in the in the flatter of community, also in the conspiracy genre in general, about those things being almost mingled with the conspiracies. And it bothers me because it kind of confounds the truth. And I just look at it as the Bible is the only thing, because the Word of God is fixed, right, It's the only thing that we
can count on. And as you found these conspiracy roads and you realize that they're that almost everything that we know or new to be true is mingled with lies, you have this morsel of truth that you can always count on um, And I mean there's something to it with when you look at flat earth cosmology. I mean, think about it. The Bible has been telling us the entire time. You know, it's been clear. We just kind of wrote it off as poetry or something. Have you had that. Are you
still you said you were still attending a church. Yeah, yeah we are. Is this a subject that you've broached with a fellow, you know, folks in your congregation or your pastor. Yeah, I've talked with a couple of guys. Like I said, I'm pretty discerning about who I talked to because you know, we all have jobs and lives to it can become complicated. Um. But yes, I have people that I have UM confided in. One one actually, pastor of my friend of mine, did not receive
it. Well. I thought he was going to be a little bit better about it. But funny we were able to just kind of forget about it and pretend we never talked about it. Um. And then and then another pastor friend of mine definitely didn't write it off and he thought it was intriguing, UM. But I think he didn't think it was all that important,
um, which kind of think surprises being sometimes. You know, when you think about like when you in the Christian from the christ Christian perspective, you have a verse that says that God, the God of the Bible, is understood by the things that are made. I mean that's pretty important, you know, if the things that are made are being obscured. There's there's no gray area with that verse whatsoever. Yeah, I mean there is definitely from
again. From the reform perspective, it's like, um, unless a person is raised from the dead, you know, in a physical sense, when you think about jesus resurrection, when he when he rose Lazarus from the dead, what do you do? He called Lazarus from the tomb after four days he said, Lazarus come forth. Um. And so you know, when you think of it in terms of that or even being born again is like
into being physically born. Um. There's a lot of things that that are somewhat involuntary that it likens our faith too, like being born, dying, and being raised from the dead. So it stands to reason that it's not a piece of knowledge that we're missing, it's actually that spark of life and our soul that's missing. And you know, Paul said, for I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where is the power, under the power of God, under salvation for everyone who believes. And so it's like,
what's missing is the Gospel. It's not flatter Earth, it's not nine to eleven and other other things. Unbelievers have recognized inconsistencies and recognize some of the lies, and they try to make sense to them, but they can't because they're working outside the framework of the act, the absolute truth, which is Scripture. And I think when you're outside of Scripture, it's almost like an insatiable desire to keep learning more and more about this stuff, like the
lies and the things that are going on. Um, you want to get deeper in there and just find the truth. And I think there's like a subconscious effort to find, you know, the truth of God. But there's also that suppression that exists in the flesh because we don't want our deeds to be exposed. We don't we don't want to go from the darkness into the light and be exposed as humans, So something supernatural has to happen. I think that it's a great really a great segue into the Gospel. It's like
as as human beings. That's the position that we're in. We stand before God guilty right as sinners, and we're blinded. We're in the dark. We love our sin, and so that's our problem, and there's no way that a righteous and holy God is going to overlook that. Otherwise he's not righteous and holy. So you know, let justice be served. Right. It's either it's either you pay the penalty on your own head or you accept what Christ did on the cross and that he paid. He paid the penalty
for that sin. So when when you believe in that, it's accounted to you for righteousness. That's the legal transaction that takes place. There's a death that you owe as a sinner, and Jesus paid the penalty, and when you put your faith in Christ, you become justified. It's like his righteousness is imputed to you and your sin was imputed to him. It's paid for he rose from the dead, conquering death obviously. So that's the gospel of
Jesus Christ. That's what people are missing. It's not some extra knowledge somewhere that it will make all of that other make more sense for sure, But until that happens internally, you know, I no matter what kind of knowledge you get outside of that, it's it's almost it's almost more incriminating the more
you know, right, don't you think? Indeed, And one of the several great points you made today is I always say, when something goes down, no matter what type of event, like Oklahoma City nine to eleven, when I get emails, what do you think? What do you think? You always have to ask, Well, who benefits? That should be the
first question you'll always ask. And what you astutely said today is these people who are involved in these things, they are already generationally rich, you know when we're talking about the Rothschilds and the DuPont So there is certainly more to it than just money and just power and people. You know, I've done episodes on Larry Silverstein. He made you know, Lucky Larry. He made
four and a half billion dollars off the Hurreance. But at the end of the day, Um, these things are it's about evil, It's about luring people away, um from God. And it's what really, at the end of the day, what I've learned about the conspiracy world these events, Um, when when they splash these on the TV screens, and on the internet. They want people to rely on man, to look to man for answers
instead of God and psalms. I think it's one of eighteen eighth that says, you know, don't look upon man for help, look look to God. And that's going back over the last three years. You know, everybody look to man, you know, please help us and save us from this this deathly disease instead of you know, looking to God. Right now, what do you think about the I don't watch the news anymore, but some
things are hard to not see, like the bud light saga. Yeah, and it's like, you know, everybody around me and even people that know what I'm all about, you know, the flat earth and stuff. UM, people in my immediate family. Well that's not how I haven't talked about my family yet as far as like how they reacted to my becoming platter part of the platter of community. But you know, they'll say, oh, can you believe that they just committed suicide as a you know, a company,
And I'm like, you really think that that they were unaware? Do you really think that? Um? You know, the higher ups that have spent their lives studying marketing and UM, and advertising that they weren't aware that this was going to affect their company the way it is. They don't need money. You know, this was all done in a grand scheme. They're part of a bigger thing. This isn't a legitimate you know, you know,
business suicide. You know, that's the way I think about a lot of a lot of this stuff and just just trave actions and things to like desensitize us. And they'll they'll throw anything at us that will divide us, and they'll they'll laugh at us. They'll put it out there, and everybody wants to pick a team, right, Um, the one side'll say screw bud Light, and the other side will say, hey, they champion the LBGT element of p community. And then the folks on the right will say,
ha ha, look at bud Light sales. They're they're just completely collapse. And and then the news announces that MODELO is the new King of Beers and they're both owned by InBev. So the money just kept going to the same person, just a different different avenue. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I just everything there is really a world stage and they're just players, and it's
hard to keep it straight. Sometimes yea, indeed it is, but it's always it goes back to divide and conquer, whether it be politics or sports. And now with the Internet and they're able to control us, they just float these things out here a couple of days and everybody picks a team and argues, and it's it's the same old bread and circus. Yeah. I mean, that's one thing that um, I think you're spot on with is the divide and conquer. I find that that they do that all the time.
If there's nothing to argue about, they that something will come up. I mean, even COVID was UM, I mean that that I almost lost my job over over not taking the vaccine. That you know, I worked for a company, a really large company, a world leader and a product um and you know, as a toolmaker, and I'm pretty you know, I was lead, a lead person and and I wasn't wasn't going to bout the knee, and they were getting close to the government mandate and they were
not backing down. They said, you know, we're going to comply. And um, of course I could have applied for just exemption. But even those if you look at the way they're written, they're very temporary. You know, they right to come back at a later day and say no, you're doing it, You're gone. My brother, my brother almost lost his job too. He had to actually file a religious exemption. But I think it was at that point. It was December, and I think the Supreme
Court ruling was going to be announced or whatever in January. Uh not. Yeah, it was like, what was it last year? No, last year? I think it must care last year, twenty twenty two. I think you're right. So yeah, and then um, and so I remember just kind of having to have these conversations with my wife and she's like, you know what, you just got to do what's right and trust trusting God. He's always provide it. And really she's she's my she's my better half
for sure. Um. Gave me a lot of confidence. And UM, I honestly wish I was more bold and you know, stopped wearing the mask and you know that. But I just figured, you know what, I'll do the mask, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take the vaccine no matter what, just because I don't want to. And nobody's gonna make me put a shot in my arm. So um, yeah, and I feel like that whole thing targeted churches, and I paid attention to the CDC numbers,
and um, in my mind, the risk was highly inflated. The risk of COVID was highly inflated, and but you know, and I think the risk of the vaccine was was highly marginalized. So I just made a decision. And I also kind of I've done a little bit of research into the whole pharma keya thing, and I wasn't crazy about I'm not crazy about that whole aspect of the drugs, and just you know what, that's my
decision and that's where I'm gonna stand. So at that point, when I, of course the ruling came out and said we didn't have to be take the vaccine, that bought me some more time and I thought, you know, I'm not going to go through this again. Then I'm gonna find my exit strategy now. And so I know we don't have enough time on the show to explain this, but I ended up going into business for myself. And I could have done this like I could have done this ten years ago.
I had the ability, I just didn't have the courage. I didn't have the mindset, you know, I was doing what was safe and taking care of my family. Um. But like I said, the way that this all came about was God driven. I mean, he brought the opportunity and the thing that pushed me over the edge to get me out there on my own. And I've got so much work now. I've got months ahead. I've scheduling work for next year. I just structural work on residential homes.
And there's a lot of very old houses in New England stone foundations, stamp or frame struggle. So um, that's what I'm working on. And like I said, I could have. I could have been doing this all along, but never had the had the courage. But you know, if you look at a practical change from when I and I acknowledged okay, you know what the earth is black, it's just as God told as it is.
And you know, everything else seems to be riddled with lies. But I'm standing firm on God's word and relying on God's leading in my life. And He literally brought this along and we're doing better than we ever have and praise God. I mean, I can't even tell you all the blessings. Well, you know, I think God rewarded you for standing tall on your convictions, and I've heard more positive stories. And again, I'm not out here to bash people who were in a position where they had to get the
vaccine. I think that was evil to begin with with the way the government, again, an entity who was supposed to be championing freedom of choice, turned around and attack the people. And the President said, you know, back in November of twenty twenty one, that if we didn't take the jab, we were looking at a winner of death. I mean, when when that phrase came out, I'm like, I'm done, I'm out of here. That that was like the most divisive sentence ever uttered by by anybody an
elected position. I don't care who it is. We want to, you know, either take our experimental jab or you're gonna die. On top of a year where families were literally divided down the middle, and h you know, I get emails talking about how their grandparents and parents wouldn't let them visit because they didn't have the vaccine. It was just so divisive and so evil. But I also want to warn people, and you know, for all of us that that got by that little drama without taking the vaccine, the
worst isn't over yet. I still believe. And again this is all conjecture and hyperbole if you will, But um, I think the endgame is going to a digital dollar. They're going to do away with cash, and you're going to see another type of big event. And if we don't, you know, bend our knee to them, they're going to cut off our finances.
I think, you know, if I can encourage people, especially you know, I don't really know how to talk to I guess as for unbelievers, I would just say, you know, get saved and get with the program here because um, you know, because you know, who do you have when when this stuff hits the fan? I mean, you and I we see God and we know that God provide. He said He's going to
provide all our needs. And you know, when I talk to people about like prepping and stuff like that, I'm I'm not really in that mindset. It's one thing that actually kind of bothers me about the whole conspiracy genre is um is how like self focused it is? Um? The Great Commission is clear, and where to go and make disciples of the nations? Um. You know, Jesus said the Kingdom is at hand. I really resonated with I think one of your lists, one of your one of your guests,
I think her name was Michelle in California. I really resonated with her on a lot of things that she said about sort of regarding eschatology. I think a lot of them, like their rapture of theology and stuff has cultivated an attitude of complacency in Christians because we feel that, you know, like like it's a it's an eschatology that says that the world is going to hell in
a hand basket and Jesus is going to take us out. Whereas you know, when she brought up a couple of interesting points that and I've been kind of gravitating toward the eschatology that's more of an eschatology of optimism, that the Kingdom is a hand like no matter how bad it looks right now, we
as Christians are supposed to subdue the world with the Gospel. We're supposed to make disciples of the nations and essentially conquer the world with the Gospel, not with swords and guns and bullets, and and so, you know, what's the cure to all of these things that we've been talking about today, what's the cure is the gospel. It's the only thing that changes the hearts for
men. So we decided a couple of years ago to start looking for some land, and you know, we wanted to kind of be out of the city atmosphere, just like we're kind of being called away from all that and back to like a more simple way of living. And we ended up we looked at several properties, couldn't find anything, and then God led us to this this place where we're at and we ended up getting like thirteen acres. I know, horrible number, but it's, uh, it's kind of fair.
It's like the I'm kount of land that we could have to be to get like that tax break of current use. So you have to have three acres if you're living on and then and then you have to have tenny. Sorry, I have a huge Burney's Mountain dog and she's just flipping out. Um anyways, So yeah, so we moved out to the country and we have about six acres of farm land that's cleared and uh got some chickens, were raising bees, We have a huge garden. We had like a little
farm stand last year. That's really how things have changed for us since since kind of I'm gonna use the term coming out of the matrix. Um, A lot of things become more clear to you, and you started thinking clearly and realizing, you know, you got to get you got to get back to some of these skills that have been lost. And you know, it's it's not going crazy. We're not building bunkers and storing like loads of food
and water. But we're just doing what we can do. And I think living the way that you know, I guess is closer to what God designed sort of you know, seat of sitting in an office all day, seven days a week. Yeah, that that's not how we were meant to live and getting stars on your butt. And I think I've mentioned before for me as a young man growing up, sitting in a chair in school for eight
hours a day was torture because I was a pretty active guy. I love sports and for like, literally I felt like I was just in chains in school. Minus I always liked history and things, but just h it's not natural for young boy. And what we're friends a lot of Amish folks in West Dover and Delaware, and when you go over to them, you know what they're not talking about. They're not talking about Trump. They're not talking
about Russia and Ukraine. They're talking about the feed prices, and they're you know, what are they doing with Johnny tomorrow for school? And it's just a yeah, all of the problems that we have in our life, right, car and shorts and all these things, they just don't They're very simple, very basic folks, and they love each other and they just work and they feed their families and they try to give their children the best education,
and they're all about living in the word of God. And obviously they're not perfect people either. They make their mistakes, but at the same time, they don't stress on things that have no real significance in their life. Right. Yeah, I I resonate with that. I mean, what's the point of, you know, if you're not in the matrix anymore, what's the point of still dabbling in all that stuff. I lost all interest in professional sports and almost sports in general, to be honest with you, And I
was kind of like you in high school. I just I could not stand sitting in a seat. I played varsity sports and I loved it, and I was like all into that. But I think you just start to realize that it all plays into the game, and I'm not. I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to be I don't want to be a cog in the wheel. Even with politics, you know, I'm not. I decided last year I'm not voting anymore. I'm just not playing the game. So guys are all part of the They're part of the
system that I don't want to play. You know, I'll pay my taxes and render to Caesar or whatever. But that doesn't mean I have to play the game with everybody else and be in the middle of it all. That's right, render to Caesar. Yeah, it's in a way, it does feel like you're you're paying the guy who is have you locked down, right, It's like paying the head of the prison, the guy who runs the prison for your cell. But you know, everybody has to make their choices
and we have to be wise. But again, I think if we're ever going to succeed, there's number one, Like you said, we have to have faith in God and have Jesus in our heart. And second and have the conviction. And this is the thing. I have a conversation with a couple of the local pastors were very small town and they're easy to find. And where was I gone? I just looked out the window. Saul butterflying completely forgot what I was saying. Yeah, it's a beautiful day. The
apple tree is blooming. We've seen sun for the first time in like three days. But yeah, like the I believe. And again, I'm not holier than now or anything like that, but so many churches I go to is they preached to time. When we were in the military, we never trained to time. We trained a task. So if we had a mission, if I had to teach my soldier how to you know, fire their weapon and zero it, we didn't say, Okay, we have thirty minutes
to do this. We did it until they were proficient in that. And I think we've become worldly in so many things, like it's you know, twelve o'clock. We got to you know, process as well. I gotta wrap this up in the middle of something that he may be in the middle of changing somebody's mind. And I think we're also something I do see. You know a lot of other religions do that. They're not afraid to go knock on people's tor and say and that's that we need to take that shell
and get rid of it. And I've said many times, if we want to make a difference in the world, people have to do things that they may not be comfortable with. And for the most part, that is going up to a complete stranger and you're saying, hey, do you have Jesus in your life? Right? I honestly think if if people would just take the opportunities that they have, I mean, how many times do you have have an opportunity to talk to somebody where you know, like you could steer
the conversation, you know, in that direction. I mean, he almost don't even need to knock on doors. Part of me is I'm not against that obviously, but I just think that there's a stigma to it because of some people that knock on doors. You know, I'm talking about Oh sure, sure, sure, But I'm using that a loose turn. Like you
said, going up to complete strangers. You're at Jeffy Loup waiting for your car to be tuned up and a guy walks in, right, Yeah, you'd be surprised at like how far you can go with somebody just by mentioning that you go to church or you know, or oh I'm just praying about this the other day and oh you pray what you know? It just you
can steer conversations that way. You can just kind of plant little seeds in there and once they kind of know where you stand, you know, even if they kind of presuppose what you believe or whatever at first, you can steer the conversation and share the gospel with a lot more more people if you just kind of take those opportunities as they come. Even though those people knock on your door, sometimes they need to hear the gospel. So absolutely opportunity.
I watched my mom as a young man. She turned it around and would say, yeah, sure, come in. I want to talk to you about Jesus Um. That's it. I did. I'll talk They're kind of like what and their white T shirt, you know, and their white dress shirts and their black slacks. Come on in. Yeah, older, that's eighteen years old. Yeah. I meant to ask and if you did mention it earlier, but did you say everyone else in your family are they on team Flat Earth? Are they down with it? Or is it something
they're still kind of looking into. Yeah, No, I didn't mention. I did mean to mention it earlier as part of my journey. It was like it didn't seem all that difficult that I guess to convince my family once I was like solid on it. I remember when I first started looking into it, and I told my my wife. I was like, hey,
I just watched a couple of videos and it's not stupid. And she looked at me and just roll her eyes back to what she was doing with that meln And then uh, later on um, she would ask me again and and if you are you still watching the flatter of videos? You're still into all that? And like, yeah, I'm really nice, really, you know, it's not stupid. And she started coming around and and then both of my kids were I don't know, I guess they were there more or
less into whatever. They were more or less into what I was into. But it wasn't that hard to get vince some once I saw a dad was convinced. That's good. That's kind of the way it was here. And yeah, we we we play the videos as well as a family. We watch them, you know, whether it be a lot of the Schebat stuff we listened to while we're in the car. He did a lot of tremendous
stuff. And again, like we were talking about before. It's so sad because he was a wealth of knowledge and he was a great He's such a good speaker, and I always talked with a smile. Yeah, I really enjoyed him. He did make experiment not long ago. Do you remember that? I think it was Lake Michigan. Wasn't enough you ever saw that. He didn't experiment. It was him and somebody else. It was like a crew of a few people. He was he was involved with that. I
think I have to go back and look for that. I'm not sure if I remember it. Yeah, yeah, I'll go back and check too. I'm pretty sure it was him, but not on Yeah, that's somebody I regret. I wish I would. I would have such a great conversation with him. Was it for you? Did Did everything change? Like the way
you see nature and everything? Everything? You know? Because I've said many times that you know, being you know, a career soldier, and then finally like a lot of the things I saw during my career and I had interactions with pretty high arching people and they kind of said some things off to the side. I was like, huh, but I never really had the time to look into it, and I think part of it was I wanted
to wear the blinders because for one reason or another. But when I finally took the time afterwards and I went down nine to eleven and found out that the true story about it, at least what I believed it was, it was a punch in the stomach. Right It's how could my government that I served and my entire family going back a hundred years or so have served this country. It just felt like, you know, I was betrayed, but you know, life goes on. But when the flat Earth, at first
it was the same type of feeling. I'm like, are you kid me? Is there anything genuine about this Earth? Then at the same time, over a couple of days, once I get over that, it was like my shackles were broken, and I looked at everything differently. I read the Bible differently, I treated people differently. I realized that God wasn't in this
alternate dimension. I think this is one of the things that I really realized, Like you don't die and then you just go to another dimension, like Heaven is like right above us, like you can look up and see Heaven. And I really realized how close God was to me, and that really changed my life. Yeah, I'm I totally agree. I think I had the same exact experience, just feeling this closeness to God physically, not you know, not just that's right about how he's you know, in some other
dimension, you know, beyond infinite space somewhere you know. Yeah, and then he's right up up there, up above, you know, and you point up. That's where God is, you know, the Father is sitting up in a throne above Firman, you know. And it's like and um, one of the I don't know if you've ever looked into this, but um in Ezekiel, there's this weird passage about the wheels and in the sky. You've ever read that before? I'm not sure if it rings a bell
or not. Oh, you gotta read look at Ezekiel. I think it's like chapter one, I think, Um. But anyway, it talks about these um, these wheels and the sky and these fork creatures and where the wheels went they went and blah blah blah. Yeah, talks about Um. Ezekiel talks about him, like going up with the wheels and then looking up at the firmament and basically describing what he sees through the firmament. So he's describing like the colors of the rainbow and sapphire, and um, he talks
about, um, the firmament being like crystalline glass or molten glass. And then you know, and then like the son of Man and a throne, that kind of thing. And then if you go and you go to to Revelation, I think it's chapter four or five, I can't remember, but um, it's a description of everything above the firmament exactly as it was described
in Ezekiel. From below the firmament, he says. You know, John says, I see a sea of glass, and he talks about the colors of the rainbow and the throne and sapphire, you know, all the same terms. So it's not you know, the flat Earth model or whatever. The firmament isn't just some old Testament poetry. It's also it's also recapitulated in Revelation. Yeah, the Revelations four to six says and before the throne,
there was a sea of glass like into crystal m Yeah. If you if you read that pass you know that passage, it's identical to what Ezekiel describes from below the firmament. And he sees above it. Pretty cool, it is. And I mentioned that I felt closer to God, but it also gave me a special feeling that I was closer to my dad as well, because Heaven's up there as well. So when people say, you know,
I think a lot of people don't realize. And when they say, you know, my dad's you see these guys they won a championship and they say, oh, my dad's smiling down upon me today, I think people don't realize that, you know, Heaven is above the firmament and they really are looking down up I believe looking down Tanya. Yeah, absolutely. I know we didn't get it. We didn't get into tides and all the other fun stuff. But that's okay, that's okay, Um, you know, that's
something we can broach another day. I think the most important things, though, we did dwell on and I think that that is uh really what it's all about. Right. Yeah? Absolutely. And with that being yeah absolutely, was there anything else you wanted to touch on or would you like to give the folks any closing words? Yeah? I would just say repent and believe the gospel. It's the power of God into salvation. Jesus died for your sins, rose from the grave, put your faith in him, and
start your true life. You know, see where all this stuff is going to lead. You know, it's actually a good story for us. If you're not on that side yet, get on it quick. Yeah. For sure, we're not nobody's guaranteed tomorrow. That's a fact, and we are in precarious times, and again we can be cognizant of it, but don't dwell on it. Live your life, raise those chickens, and grow your food. My wife has made a habit out of when we go to the
commissary on Dover Force Base. You'll be shocked to see how many of these things, whether it be cereal or bread mix, that'say made with bioengineered products. And that should be a huge red flag for people. Yeah, we're staying away from all that stuff. Yeah, we have a local farm nearby. We've been buying raw milk and grass fed beef and so we're fortunate to have that right nearby. But the government is not making it easy for those farmers. No they're not. It's it's sad, Yeah, it is.
Well, Mike, it's been an absolute pleasure meeting you, and I wish you all the best, and thank you so much for sharing your story and your testimony with the folks at home. Thank you so much, George for having me, and I'm gonna keep on listening and appreciate your podcast and everything you're doing, so keep on blessing us. All right, we'll do it
again. I thank you, and again folks will have like Rob Skiba's links and beyond the Imaginary Curve links and Mike's email address which is mikey dot fea chat at gmail dot com. Don't worry about writing it down, it'll be in the show to scription so you can just copy and paste if you'd like to reach out to Mike and for Mike, I am George. Thank you all so much for joining us on this edition of The Flat Earth Files,
and we look forward to the next one. God bless you all, and until next time, we will see you