Episode 49: Flat Earth Conversation with Mischelle

M The following presentation is in now Marvel Studios Production. Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of The flat Earth Files as we re chord on this Wednesday, May twenty fourth, twenty twenty three. And joining us in just a moment is Michelle have some great information to share with you before we get started. Don't forget please drop by our website, the flat earth Files dot com. Feel free to jump into the

forum, the chat room. I get notifications into my email whenever somebody posts something and it's it's been lighting up, so it's I'm very happy to see people utilizing these tools that we've provided for you guys. And of course, if you want to join us, like Michelle has this evening sunny, email to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Again it's the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. So let's go ahead and kick things off,

and we'd like to welcome Michelle to the show this evening. Michelle, how are you. I'm doing well? Thank you, George. This is kind of exciting. You don't know me. We've only talked just a little bit, but to me you sound like a friend because I've been listening to so many of your podcasts. Oh well, I greatly appreciate that, and it's always good to have folks come on and to tell their stories and their road

to the truth, because in some ways they are unique. But at the same time, I get so many emails that they really resonate with people. And sometimes people think, you know, am I the only person who thinks like this? But I can assure you that there's many many people out there, not just in your state, in this country, but around the world who are seeing the bigger pictures. So without any further ado, why don't

you go ahead and introduce yourself to the folks at home. Okay, my name is Michelle and I live in California and not the ideal state, but that's where God has placed us for now. Yeah. Interestingly, during the pandemic, we were in Florida, and we actually moved back to California, which is my home state, in twenty twenty December twenty twenty, and there's some interesting insights into how people handled the pandemic Versliforny versus Florida, which might

actually surprise you. But I live with my husband and I'm taking care of my one hundred year old grandma. Wow. And it's been an exciting challenge. She's been with us now for just over a year. And of course I've mentioned in one of my emails that we have this potential flooding coming down the pike. So it's just trying to navigate the future is something that's a big part of our life right now. You know, that's right. I

completely forgot. You had to email me about the levy and then there was some a story from a news agency and I did do a little research, and then you know, I get other emails and I completely forgot about this, you know, the weather control and it was a levy situation or a damn right, it's a yeah. It was a dam that they raised about I guess sixteen feet and they started the project quite a while ago, and locals kind of had the idea like they didn't really need to do it.

It just didn't make sense why they were wanting to fix the dam. That was their big thing. Fix the dam. Well, fixing the dam turned into raising the dam and creating this labyrinth, weird new extra spillway and then a third spillway, and it's just very interesting the history and the actual construction project. But in nineteen eighty three, the lake reached capacity and actually went

like six point five feet over capacity. And at that time I was living here, and the park was underwater, the airport was underwater, and it was like right up to the roads. And so I saw it, I lived through it. I know what could happen. And now they raised the dam sixteen feet and because of some potential flooding activity that we've never seen before. But that's because you know, they have all their little stories, and

it's very interesting. We had this hydrologic you know, an atmospheric river they call it, in March, and California has been having a lot of these where they just have this massive influx of water, and so we had we have the highest snowmelt that we've I mean snowpack that we've ever had, which feeds into the current river, which feeds into the lake. And so there's a potential of this nineteen eighty three happening again, but worse. But nobody's

talking about our valley, like what could happen in our valley. They're only talking about what could happen downstream in Bakersfield, which is the big city, which I mean they're facing potential flooding too, so kind of a rabbit trail. But yeah, for sure, because you had heard this from folks in the four Service, FEMA, the county Fire Department, and even some people in the medical establishment. Yet you said, nobody is really warning the people,

and this was from several weeks ago. Is this still there's been no warnings publicly about this, nothing at all. In twenty twenty one, when we first had moved back here, I when I realized that they had raised the damn sixteen feet, they had like this meeting where you could go at zoom call and talk to the core of engineer about what's going on and about

the dam and its progress and stuff. And so I asked for some maps of the valley if it reaches this new potential flooding that they're expecting, if if I could have some maps, not downstream like from Bakersfield, upstream, and they looked around and I read into people. I do read into things, and I read people's faces, and it was a very sheepish response. We had those maps, right, and oh, of course we do.

Yes, just contact and I have a name, Just contact this person and we will make sure you get those maps, and so I contacted them. They sent me maps at Bakersfield and I so I emailed them back and I said, no, I'm actually looking for maps of what could happen in this potential event in the current river valley around the lake upstream. And I never heard back from them, and other people have given similar reports that they've asked for the data. The interesting thing about it is, I don't know if

you're familiar with Agenda twenty one. Oh yeah, of course, yeah, Agenda okay, And of course I guess wanted Agenda thirty now. So I was introduced to this back I don't know, twenty years ago or so, but you know, I was young and stupid and it didn't really matter. And so when I started seeing what's going on with the flooding potential up here, I just started doing little research into it because I was curious, and found out, of course, that we're in the red zone from the maps

that somebody I had created. You might have more information on this because I just touched on it. But they had create the maps of the areas that were supposed to be like highly restricted or no humans at all, and had presented them to Congress from the treaty that President Bush had signed called it had something to do with the Center for Biological Diversity. It was all connected.

And but when they saw the maps, from what I understood where my research took me, is that they would not ratify that treaty and so supposedly it's not in force yet we're seeing it play out in the world with all the sustainable development goals and all of that. So so the interesting thing that the point that I was trying to get to is that when I started talking to people about the potential flooding up here and that they would not supply me with

maps. You know, at first, people were just laughing at me, Oh, there's no potential to flood And I mean, one person had the audacity to send me a private message just to let me know that I was an effing idiot for even talking about this, and it just, I mean, it just it floored me. I didn't know what to think, you know, it just seems so strange. And so I started contacting people locals

and saying, are you aware of this potential flooding? And I finally connected with the right person and she said, you know, somebody else just told me the same exact thing, and I thought she was ridiculous. But now that you mentioned it, and now that you share it like that, I understand what you mean. And so we kind of started a little group of people pray and prep Curtain River Valley on Facebook and we're just sharing information.

But in the process Kathy by the friend who had that were kind of working together with, she directed me to this document that was put out by the Sequoia Forest Keepers in conjunction with the Center for Biological Diversity, which these are the people who are behind these agendas to get people out of the valley. Well or not out of the valley, that's how it specifically applies to me, but to get people out of the rural areas and into the city.

And so they actually had put together this paper and it was sometime before twenty seventeen, and in the paper it was a projection of what could happen. It was really they were saying, you really shouldn't be raising the dam, and here's why potential flooding roads closed, over the French Gold Bridge closed. And of course then they had throw in some little environmental things like the habitat

for certain things, certain animals and then they provided the flood maps. These are the exact maps that I was asking from the United States Corps of Engineer,

Army Corp of Engineer, and they wouldn't give to me. But the Center, the forest Keeper and Center for Biological Diversity they had put together the map and they're they're devastating of what could happen up here in this potential event if all the everything, all the pieces are in place, like you have the incredible snowpack, you have fires, which we have all the time. And so anyway, um, you know what you just laid out is I didn't mean to cut you off. I'm sorry, but for the for the

listeners, which you have to look at the bigger picture here. Think back to just a couple of months ago with East Palestine, a rural community. In a matter of time, you're going to hear these people are going to have to leave, and you hear what could happen here in the Bakersfield, California area. John Kerry just came out the other day, he's the climates are here for the United States. They're talking about if these farmers don't um do this, you know, carbon whatever, right, if they don't adapt

to the climate pledge that the United States can confiscate farms. It's about controlling our food and pushing people out of rural communities into cities, these fifteen minute cities where you are controlled bingo. Of course, you know it's at this

point it's still slight speculation. It's just that everything is leading to that potential, and it's just a potential, but there is a potential, and they're not talking about the potential even and that's where I'm really frustrated with our government agencies that I don't trust anyway. Yeah, and there is a fifteen minute city that is already kicked off in Canada, and I want to say it's in Edmonton, one of the maybe it's a suburb of Edmonton, but they've

already kicked off. I think this is a trial run for it. I mean, I think twenty thirty is the end game. I think by twenty thirty, they would love to have everybody, you know, digital currency, and you see the there's already EESG scores for corporations. They want to probably

incorporate this into our credit score. Right, maybe you make all your payments and you don't have any debt, but you know that Facebook post talking about you know, the President Biden that's going to detect thirty points from your credit score. You know, people might say, well, that's crazy, But if you just take a moment and think what has happened to this country just over the past three years, well you better open your eyes. It's happening

fast, George. It is. It certainly is. If you look at life from the end of World War Two into almost forty to fifty years, there wasn't that much of a slope when the Bush took over, and actually in the eighty because you had Reagan who took all the vaccine companies off the hook in nineteen eighty six, and then they started passing all these little loopholes. Twenty eleven, Obama assigned the NDA for twenty eleven, which allowed the

government to come up and snatch you up without any trial. Twenty twelve with zea Smith month Modernization Act, which allowed propaganda to be placed on its own people. And you know, in the last decade, what a slippery slope. And people keep saying all that won't happen, But my goodness, just look over since nine to eleven, how many of our freedoms have been taken away from us. Yeah, I know it's it's scary in the short term, but I do believe that there's hope for the long term. Why don't

you talk about that. Well, I think that we have in America and maybe in the civilized world, been indoctrinated in many things, obviously not just the globe, but we've been indoctrinated with a false understanding of the Gospel of

Jesus Christ. And it started in the eighteen hundreds, I believe, with a man called John Nelson Derby who popularized or he started the popularized movement of the idea of dispensationalism, which if you really just pinpoint it down to one thought, and it's not just dispensationalism that has this same kind of error. But if you were to pinpoint it just down to one thought, it's that the devil wins down here. We don't. We don't. Christians don't win

until we go to Heaven. And I have come, just as I came to flat to understand that the earth is flat, in the nature of the cosmos and how God created it based on the Bible and evidence. I had been indoctrinated in the false idea and that the devil wins down here, we lose. And so it really led me in my younger days just to not

really care about the future. I didn't think about it in a I didn't think about it in a positive way, like I should plan, I should save, I should build culture, I should you do anything to be worried about the future, because I just thought it was going to come to an end. The Lord is going to return, and I was going to get raptured out of here, and and I wouldn't have to worry about the future.

And and so this is an idea, and it's it's pretty popular in the flat Earth movement as well, sadly, which has been It's been interesting on my journey because I've been looking at so many different sources of knowledge and information and I'm clean good stuff from everybody, but there's so many different views out there. And so that's why I thought, you know, I need to put my voice out there too, just to present another idea about the

future. And that is really one of hope. And and it starts it doesn't start in the New Testament. The hope starts in the Old Testament. And it's really what is God's purpose? Why did he create humans. You know, he gave us this beautiful earth in this garden. Of course sin took that all away, so was that it it was just going to be

sin and death forever. Is that really God's plan? Or was that promise of that Messiah or the we had it in just seed form that there was going to be one who was going to crush the head of the serpent, And so there you have it in seed form, and then you see it just sin playing out throughout the Old Testament, people always turning away from God and his law, and every time they do it brings death and destruction. But God says that he gave us his law because he loves us and he

wants to bless us. And that's over and over in the scriptures. Just the fact this connection between obedience and blessing, and the obedience of course is to God's law, but it's not an obedience of an outward obedience. It's because a love, a love for God's law, which the New Testament just picks right back up on that. You know, if you love me, you will obey me, and it's not going to be burdensome my commandments.

It's in First John I believe, where it says, you know, this is the love of God that you keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. And so that's a work that God does in our hearts only through the power of the Holy Spirit and faith. And when we have that belief system, and then we see that when Christ came, and this is the message of the New Testament, that he came to it says in First

John, also he came to destroy the works of the devil. So I had for most of my life looked at, well, the devil's not going to be destroyed till the end or Christ. The cross of price is only enough for salvation into heaven. But if you read Colossians, specifically Colossians chapter one, two, three, and you see what the death of Christ actually did. It says he triumphed over the devil at the cross and all of his demons. He made a public spectacle of them. And for what purpose

that Jesus Christ could have pre eminence in all things. That's the goal of the Christian life. That's the goal of the church. The Church ought to be proclaiming Christ over all things, including governments, schools, and we've lost that and because we've lost that we're losing. We are losing down here because we don't think we're gonna win. I mean, if somebody's giving you a

pet pop, Okay, George, we're gonna play baseball today. You're gonna lose, Okay, but that's okay because we're gonna have some really good ice cream afterwards, and you're we're going to get a trophy too, and all kinds of good things about I'm just going to let you know now you're not going to win the game. Okay. Now, I want you to go out there to try your best, but you're not going to win. And

what I mean would that encourage you to play your best? Right? If winning or losing didn't make a difference, why would you bother to put in any effort? Right, And it really becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I believe of you know, the world is getting worse and worse. And so I think it was Jay Vernon McGee who coined the phrase why polished the brass on a sinking ship? So the you know the ideas well, the ship is sinking, Let it sink, you know there, don't don't build culture,

don't try to improve the world. Just let it sink. Because it's sinking. Well, how about we just go find out where the breach and the hole is, and let's fix it. And let's get this ship back up to where it's floating again, and and build the best ship that we can and polish it with the best you know, polishing agents, and clothe

it with the best furniture. So I guess that's kind of what I mean by hope, and and and again I mentioned it starts in the Old Testament, and I can just name a few passages, but Isaiah not, I think. Okay, So it's in Isaiah books, yes, And there's so much hope in there in that book, so much beauty of when Christ comes, not at the end, but when Christ comes the beauties. He says

he suffered for the glories that would follow. So Isaiah, I think it's nine six and seven it says that, And this gives us the timing. It's the famous Christmas passage front us a child is born, and to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And then it goes on and it says, and from from that time all or that there will only be an increase and peace and righteousness on earth from that time forward even forever, and it's going to be the zeal of the Lord

of Hosts that's going to accomplish it. Indeed, I did not quote it perfectly, but no, you did it brilliantly. Two things I want to to ask you. Number One, you're talking about how evil our world has become. And a long time friend of mine, we were discussing this the other day where he's a big baseball fan, and there's this thing with the Dodgers where they invited this LGBT group who re enacted the Christ being crucified on the cross, but they turn it into a dragon. I mean, just

the most horrible mockery. Anybody who's on social media today probably saw what I was talking about, and I said to him, you know, looking out at the world today, and I know they like to push this stuff and not every you know, it may not be as prevalent out there as we think it is. Maybe it is, I don't know, but when I see these things, what was the world as bad as it is today when

God flooded the earth? Well, I think that we're going to be finding out pretty soon, because I do believe that we are in a judgment period for sure, very much like what happened in the flood of Noah. Of course, God promised that he would never flood the earth again, so we know it's not going to be a worldwide flood. But he God loves justice and he loves righteousness, and that's something that the church has forgotten about.

From what I've seen now, I know that there are, thank God, there are some faithful men out there who do and women who are who also love justice and righteousness and want to see that on earth. And in fact, that's you know, that's the Lord's prayer. Yes, it's hollow. Would be thy name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And that's perfectly. He wants to see his perfect justice and his perfect righteousness here on earth. And that's what the church.

I mean, if we're praying for it, right, James says I. But if you're praying for something but you're not actually involved in doing something about it, that's dead faith. And so if we're called to pray for His kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven, then we ought to be about that business bringing it to earth as it is in heaven.

And so while I do believe we are in a period of judgments, and this is the zeal of the Lord, you know, it says it's going to happen, and it's the zeal of the Lord that's going to accomplish it. So if the Church fails, which I would say the Church is failing right now in doing her duty to the Great Commission. It's very simple. Christ spells it out very clearly, and we've forgotten it. We're supposed to be discipling the nations and teaching them to obey everything that he has commanded.

That is what the church and baptizing, of course, in the name of the Father's Son of the Holy Spirit. But the Church has lost the well the belief even that we ought to be one discipling the nations and two that we should be discipling them to observe His law, to pay His law. And so if we're not doing it, well, there's it's either Christ or Antichrist. And so if we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing,

then Antichrist is going to do it. The Devil's going to rise up and he's going to disciple the nations, and he's going to teach them to observe everything against what God has commanded. And that's what we're seeing right now. And so I do believe that the zeal of the Lord of Hosts will come in and he's going to set things straight. It's going to be I think, at a great cost to this current world system or the people. You know, just think about how many people have died from this COVID vaccine.

And this is you know, this is part of God's you know, the war in Ukraine, you know, which I hate. I hate it. I think it's just a part of a depopulation. There's no winners in war. There really isn't, right, and this is you go back to Isaiah, you know, it says the purpose of God is too that we beat all of our swords into plowshares. I mean, it is to end wars. The United Nation has stolen God's promise and they're they're trying to do it about do it Man's way. You can't do it. It's it's either.

You know, the very first episode that you recorded, you called yourself an anarchist, and I remember thinking, oh, dear, I don't know if I'll be able to share this podcast with anybody. But the next episode you came up and you said, well, I want to explain what I mean by that. You know, when I said that I was an anarchist, I just mean that I don't have to subject myself to man's law. I only have to subject myself to God's law. He said that. I'm like,

okay, well, maybe I can can share this with others. Yeah, it's funny. It's words have meaning. And I've done so many of these and sometimes I'll say something and I'll get an email it's like oops, you know, I mean, go back and address it. And yeah, when you say things like you certainly have to be clear, and you know, I think it's okay. There's some things folks in them the least have

right. In the Middle East, they have right. And one of them is most of the laws are handled by local shakes, Like every little town has their own leader and he kind of deals with the situations like here we have a prison industrial complex where people get lost in and the contracts are a surd I mean, I'm doing a podcast on that Friday. It's just it's

nuts. But getting back to what I was saying, yeah, it's the government man inherently, anytime man is given power, ninety nine times out of one hundred, it's just true, he's going to go the way of sin. And this government we have here in the United States, and to be quite frank around most other countries around the world, you basically have to corrupt

yourself to get to one of these top spots. Telling your child, if they work hard, they can be president might be a bigger lie than Santa in my eyes, because you really have to bend the need of Satan to become anywhere in that top tier in this country. And that's what I believe. Yeah, And to give some credit to our founding fathers, I know that there are worth some corrupt among them, but there were also a lot

of faithful pastors. Yeah. And I don't know if you've ever listened to the Wall Builders, and I don't agree with everything they say on there, but there's some He goes into the documents and it's really excellent material and he shows that these the Founding fathers really understood the Bible, and they understood God's

law and they built upon that. And you had mentioned, you know, local governments, and that's really what the Bible teaches this the localism and the government, because you know your constituents, you know, and you choose the people that you trust to rule over you. That's God's way. If you go back to you right, and you can hold the guy down the street accountable if if he abuses his power. We can't even get near any of these guys in DC, especially after the stuff they pulled with January sixth.

Oh man, it's just agregious. Yeah. So they did put the balance of power in place, and they did it because what you mentioned, you know, we always go down the path of sin. That's where we go human nature, that is human nature, and that's what the Bible teaches, and the Founders knew that, and that's why they put the checks and balances into place. So, I mean that was the goal. Obviously it hasn't played well over time, but to keep the keep people in check because we're

always prone to go towards sin. Yeah, and it's interesting that you mentioned the Founding Fathers. What people may not know is early on in the early eighteen hundreds, there was three parties. The third party was actually the Anti Masonic Party. So for the folks who either a think Freemasonry is just there's really nothing wrong with it. You you silly conspiracy theorists or think that they

are not a real problem in this country. There was a guy by the name of William Morgan who was one of these guys who was a Mason. He's all the evil in it. He walked away, he started becoming a public critic of it, and he disappeared, so they started to Actually it was called the Anti Masonic Party and it was around for quite some bit.

I think it was established like real early in the eighteen hundreds. And even Samuel Morse, the founder of the Morse Code and one of the greatest painters of our country's history, he knew that there was He was more of a guy who was against the Jesuits. But these people in the early eighteen hundreds into the eighteen thirties, they knew that there was an evil forming it in our government. And like everything else they got, they got crushed. Unfortunately.

Yeah, that's sad, there's so much misinformation out there. You brought a Mason on. I was a little surprised by that, and he wants to go into the thirty third degree, which I found kind of interesting. But I think that we are really duped when it came to the Masons and the Jesuits. And you know, if if what I've heard is true, these are really Satanic organizations, then when we have a Masonic temple in our like we have one here in our local area, this is a you know,

it's like a tribute to Satan in our area. And you know, that doesn't bring about the blessings of God that we all desire. Every one of every human desires God's blessings. They don't all want to get it the right way, but we all want to be blessed. But there's there's only one way and until we get back to that way, and so God has to tear down all these idols. Right now, I think the biggest, one of the biggest idols in the church is statism. We worship the state

and we believe everything they say. We take their word as gospel. And of course there's many agencies within them, within the government, federal government that you could list. This is one thing that really was really hard for me during the pandemic. You know, the medical establishment, another idol they call abortion healthcare. They are mutilating children for you know, because they think you

can choose your gender. They celebrate perversion, and we're going to go to them for advice on how to live, you know it just we're gonna let them tell us that we have to shut down the churches. And it was such a disconnect for me how people Christians could just follow their advice. And I remember I visited my daughter's church, and I love my daughter dearly, and I feel sad because I kind of geared guided her to this church when she went to college, but we went. I went one Sunday and I

didn't. I said I'm not going to wear a mask, and she said it, it's okay, You'll be fine, and so I I go in and one of the deacons approaches to me and says, oh, do you need a mask? I left. Besides that, they had like communion and cardboard boxes and or like styrofoam boxes, and they had CDC signs on their bathroom like only one person at a time. It was I felt like like the state was running the church. And it just really really was hard. I admitted myself for a while there, I was I mean, I guess

it's equal opportunity. Maybe I was a little too hard on some of the preachers. I had a conversation with my local preacher a couple of weeks ago, and he was disappointed. He said that he had to close the church. And sometimes I failed to remember that the preacher is normally not the highest ranking person in the church. There's levels way above who control who goes in that church, and they rotate the preachers, aroun and they have people they

answer to. He made it clear to me that he didn't want to close the church, and I know there are probably people out there, but unfortunately, when these churches sign up to become a five O one C three organizations, they sign up to be a part of the government. And the fact of the matter is most churches don't even know they don't have to become a five O one C three And that's something I think that we need to do a better job. It all goes back to education, it really does.

And a church is one of the big big things with me here in Delaware. The Unitarian Church. They're all over Delaware and you can go to their home pages if you guys, just put it in a Unitarian Church Delaware. There's a couple of them that have these PowerPoint presentations on their homepage that explain transgenderism, and it talks about how on the far right is being a male, being on the far left is a female, and in between the eighty

three other different genders. And I'm like, you're a church and between the rainbow, which again is the covenant. It is a symbol of the covenant between God and man that he would never I think it's Genesis nine thirteen and taking that and making a complete mockery out of that. And then you know, these churches once again conforming to man instead of sticking with the word of

God. It's just I mean, there are more churches, and I would say seventy five percent of the churches in our state are infiltrated by the Synagogue of Satan. They really are. I believe you're right, and I will make a bold statement here and say that that is not a church, not a faithful one anyway, It is apostate. If they are, as you said, Synagogue of Satan. Yeah, it's posing as a church, right, Yeah, I think that. No, no, no, you go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say that, I really see.

What happened in twenty twenty was almost to an unmasking, if you will, of the real state of the church. And so you got to see, you know, the level of faithfulness of these congregations, and it was it was really hard for us to see. We we were about to join a church because we've been we had been searching for a church, a faithful church for some time, and we found this. It was a Reformed Baptist church, and we liked the direction they were going, and we were going

to be that Sunday like going to a church membership class. And then they shut down the church and I said, I guess I'm not going to be good. You know, we're not going to go back. For us, it was, it's it's such a you know, it says a lot of people believe we're living in end times. I don't. I think we are in end times of America. But it's but as that kind of time comes, we are. It says all the more not to forsake the gathering together

of believers, and Christians should know that. Pastors should know that. And it says even in I think it's First Chronicles seven fourteen, it might be Second Chronicles. It's a very popular passage. If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways. And I will hear from heaven above, and I will forgive their sins, and I will heal their land. Well. The verse right before that talks about if I bring pestilence, and then the

verse right after that says if they gather together in my sanctuary. And so you have the Bible giving us principles on how we deal with pandemics as well as how shall I say it? It's the leper who has to isolate themselves. It's the one who's sick. We don't isolate the whole population. We don't have your guilty until proven innocent. I e. You're sick or what is it? A carrier? And what do they call that? I know what you're talking about. I can't think of the actual term right now.

Okay, So those are you know? There? There is There are protocols in the Bible, and if we just go to the to God's word and we just trust it, then we can find answers for so many things that will bring blessing and not cursing on this world. Yeah, you're talking about the asymptomatic yes, there we go, Thank you Google. Yeah, yeah, indeed. And by the way, folks, I'm going to include this

in the show description just so you can see. This is a choch a church excuse me, in the Newark, Delaware, and it's called trans one oh one. And this is again from the church. And again it's just a slap in the face to the Creator, to God, my goodness, gracious. And I don't know how or when the churches took such a right turn. It's destroyed the Methodist Church, they've split in a half, and

I'm sure there's going to be more. It's very interesting. You said that you didn't think it was end times, but you think it's the end of the United States. How do you see this playing out? Well, I don't know, and I shouldn't say the end of the United States completely, but at least the way that well, yeah, yeah, I mean, there's so many you don't have to be a prophet to look at the signs of the times. You know, we have this digital currency coming down the

pike. We have or an economic collapse. We have the as you've mentioned before, in Germany, before Hitler came into power, there was a rise in sexual deviancy, and I think that is a part of the fall of many societies. You have Sodom and Gomorrah. You know, it says I've given you Sodom and Gomorrah as an example, so you don't follow in that way. And we were following in that way. And Satan when he gets

a foothold in, you know, he's all in. He's gonna come in, he's gonna come in subtly, he's going to start and you know, make you feel sorry for these people like they're victims. And and so we're gonna you know, if Christians cave even a little bit, he's just going to keep going for more. And so that's what we see. You know. I remember in the eighties when you know, they were just starting. Well from my perspective, it may have been sooner. They were trying to,

you know, push the homosexual agenda and and normalize it. And I kind of bought into it myself. I was raised in a Christian, but I in a Christian family. I didn't really become a Christian. I don't believe until after some very difficult time in my life. God usually knows how to draw us into his kingdom, and so The one thing that I had that I believe my appearance instilled in me and the Holy Spirit as well,

is I believe that God's word was true. And I've had to grow in that because there's different ways to interpret the Bible and so, oh it means this or all. That's just cultural and so. And that was kind of when I started studying flat earth. That's the same thing. Well, there's another way to look at that. It doesn't have to mean that. And but once you start seeing the evidence, you're like, Okay, that's is what the Bible is saying. Yeah, it isn't funny that it takes hard

times for sometimes to reconnect with God. I remember being in the army when we were in combat, everybody was religious, and they say, everybody in jail is religious. You know, it's sad that it takes fear sometimes to get ourselves to turn around and embrace God again. Yeah, He's I think He's written a story for each one of us that's totally unique and different, because that's how unique and different each person is, just like we all have

a unique fingerprint. It's like our everything about us is so unique. But God created us that way purposely because he has, it says in effusions, he has good works planned for us that we should walk in them, and so he guides and steers our lives in such a way so that we end up exactly where he wants us. And it's just amazing, amazes me that I'm right here today on this podcast talking about these things in flat Earth. So that's awesome, And that's a great segue. Why don't you tell us

a little bit about your journey to flat Earth? And I should ask were you kind of awake before that to other quote unquote conspiracies? Yeah, I think that I married. Interestingly enough, I married a man who's very much into conspiracies, and he I wasn't as much as him. I still I had an underlying distrust for the medical establishment already, just because of some experiences

that my parents had. Yet when I was a single mother, I got had you know, gave my daughter Oli her vaccines until she was a teenager, and then I finally just stopped giving them because I'd heard a few things. So I was awake so to some things. And then I met my husband and he's you know, then we was nine to eleven, and I mean learning about the facts behind that and other things as well. So we're pretty much distrusting of the government and know that they lie. So there was

that background there. And then I think when I really woke up was in twenty nineteen when my daughter, and by the way, it was marriage out of wedlock, I mean a child out of wedlock. That was my hard times that God used to draw me to himself, gotcha. And so my daughter, by God's grace, he just did a marvelous work in me and in her, and she ended up just living in doing it right. Let's just put it that way. The whole marriage thing, she did it right

completely. And in twenty nineteen I found out that she was pregnant, and I thought, oh dear, I need to really study vaccines. I've heard enough to have my concerns, but I've never actually studied it. And so I need to study vaccines because I need to warn her with my future grandchild. And so I just dug deep into thankfully had the time to do it, and I just started researching vaccines and I was just so appalled, That's all I can say. It brought me down to tears and weeping before God.

When I knew what they were doing I had no idea they were using a boarded babies in vaccines for research and in the vaccines and male and female being at DNA fragments being injected into every child that goes through the vaccine program in America, and it just I was crushed, and it was so heartwrenching to me, the whole situation that I've probably spent six months just weeping before God, not like every minute, but maybe every day, and asking him

to tear down this vaccine industry because it was so egregious and so evil, and it is tainting the blood of our children. And I believe that that tainted blood, it is an open doorway for Satan to have influence into that child's life. And I had heard reports. I think, I don't know if you've ever listened to Debora Tovaris or Travarus stop the crime dot net.

So she was had a clip on one of her um one of her videos where she was sharing I think probably on a podcast or something, and she talked about Jeff brad Street or one of the doctors who and all these doctors that were m killed mysteriously. This list. I think Aaron Elizabeth really dives

into this the natural doctors that are dying mysteriously. And so she had talked about this one doctor who was about to expose what about the male and female DNA and that it might be causing you know, these gender issues, and before he could actually share that, he was, you know, he was he was dead. So how only God really knows. But anyway, so that I just was in just really heavy prayer and over this issue and weeping for our children with the issue of vaccines. And then it's just so interesting

to me that then happened. And I think in a way that that God was stirring me up to those prayers because he wanted to tear down this industry himself. And you know what, vaccine hesitancy has increased since twenty or since the COVID nineteen vaccine, and that goes back to many people think they overplayed their hand. Absolutely I agree. I mean, if you walked into a party and somebody you never met before says, hey, drink this, and you're like, well, what is it, don't worry about it, just

drink it, and they keep pushing it on you. It's it's going to be your natural response to say, get that away from me and that's exactly what these people did. It was crazy what they did, how they pushed it in the lies that they told. We latched onto this the high wire with del big Tree, and and I know he has some theories that some people don't agree with, and that's fine. I don't agree with. You know what, there's I have not found one person on this earth that I

agree with one hundred percent except for myself. And that's okay. That's it would be kind of creepy if if you agreed with that. You know, we're all different, so there's going to be some things we agree and some things we don't. That's that's okay. But Dell was just in his high wire program was just so spot on from the very beginning. Because I was

I had found him before twenty twenty, so I'd already trusted him. And so when twenty came in twenty one and twenty two, and he just keeps sharing the facts and he's going to the actual like the Emergency Youth Youth Authorization and he's like, they haven't even tested this against transmission, and they're trying to guilt you into thinking that you're going to save your grandma if you take the vaccine and they haven't even tested for that, and so he was just

getting the facts out there and it was really helpful. He's got a lot of great information on childhood vaccines as well. Yeah, Dell was I haven't watched him in a while, but I know a lot of people. He was sitting a lot of home runs, specifically with the vaccine, etc. Now you kind of answered it. I had it written down, So I

still want to ask you, do you think that the vaccine agenda? And I guess you could consider it as a whole, because I'm like you, I've done a lot more research into vaccines and I'm not sure there's a really good one out there. Do you think it was or is about depopulation or do you think it's about tainting God's DNA or maybe a combination of both. I would speculate that it's both. I think my husband brought out that he

thinks that not all batches were created equal. If they if they had tainted everyone or poisoned everyone, and everyone died who took it, it would be too obvious. And so yeah, the line of reasoning, there was some saline in there and then some lesser batches and then some really bad ones. And I think we're going to see more and more people dying suddenly from taking a vaccine. It's very it's very sad to say so. I think depopulation is part of it. And the tainting of the DNA. I you know,

I can't. I can't discount that either. So yeah, yeah, and a big one again. If if you guys listening at home or at work we're driving, if you want to do some research. Eustace Mullins murder by Injection what was a good read too? And that's something Eustace isn't with us anymore. And you can find his PDFs online as well. But he talks about everything from AIDS to the National Vaccine Act. And he called this

from the grave. He sure did. Well. It's interesting because a lot of pastors were promoting the vaccine, and I suspect, and this is based on something I saw in the event to a one that they were actually reaching out to pastors to help them to you know, we need your help, we want to enlist you to promote this, you know, for the common good, and blah blah blah. And and I think that some pastors I don't I can't tell you any by name that had come under that kind of

influence what I do believe it has happened. But interestingly, I don't know if you're familiar with the Gospel Coalition, I'm not sure. I am. Well, I wouldn't recommend getting involved with them because they have, Yeah,

they have. One of their writers is Joe Carter. And this came out when I was doing my deep dive into vaccine research, and Joe Carter sounded like he was kind of, you know, one of the CDC or um FDA, one of their spokesmen when it came to vaccines, even trying to make it sound like it's okay to take human you know, fetal DNA because it's you know, it's it's divorced. These these cells have populated so many

times that you're not actually getting that child to DNA. It's it's really from a clone of you know, of the clone of the clone of the cell, and it's like, you know, and so just really pushing the fact that vaccines are good and that if we're good Christians, you know, we're gonna get vaccinated because we want to be good neighbors. And you know, that's what it means to love Jesus, you know, stuff like that. And so the one of the members of the Gospel Coalition, a pastor.

Uh now, I'm I think he's kind of was the lead, the like kind of the head of the group of the Gospel Coalition. And now I don't know what his stance on vaccines were, but I'm assuming that there's a connection, since they're connected. But he just passed away suddenly from pancreatic cancer, and which, you know, it makes me sad. I'm not trying to right, of course, you don't want to be like Pallas about that,

because I know that's going to leave a hole. But the general from my sphere of influence, the general feeling was, oh, a faithful man has gone home. And I hope that's true. I just know that he had compromised on other areas as well, and this, but this promotion of the vaccine, despite the use of fetal tissue being used in it, from his organization is is um. Those kind of things just really really bother me.

It's very interesting. While you were just explaining that, I went to their website, the Gospel Coalition, and they talk about their mission as being deeply committed to renewing our faith in the Gospel of Christ and reforming our ministry practices to form fully to the scriptures. And uh, we're not united by culture or politics, but to Jesus. And then they have an fa Q about vaccines and the entire article does nothing but promote vaccines, like really really

promotes it. Even there's an as a section that says our vaccine safe. In twenty eleven, the Institute of Medicine gave an unbiased and authoritative advice to you know, they're they're clearly safe. And it's like, how how much more contradictory could you be? You just said that you're going to stray away from man and only only Jesus, and then you just have an entire,

you know, two thousand word essay about how great Man is right. And and it's interesting because there's another Christian leader who is well respected in my sphere of influence, not my but those who influence me. And he's well respected, and his name is Jonathan sar Fotty. I hope I'm not going to be in hot water for name and names here, but I've actually gone head to head with Sarfotti on some Facebook posts before I was as meek as I

am now. I say that jokingly. I'm still growing. But he was promoting vaccines and also in just like just the party line on vaccines, and he is a big name in I think it's the Creation Ministries International is his, which you've brought up before on the show. And it's just important to know that I believe that there have been there are ungodly men who have and

I'm not saying I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not saying Jonathan Sarfotti, but I am saying I do believe that there are godless men it talks about in Jude who have crept in unnoticed so they can promote their wicked agendas. And and Jonathan Sarfatti, whether he's one of those men who have crept in or not, he also promotes vaccines, just like Joe Carter, just like

the Gospel Coalition. And it's almost like he rose up in the Christian Ministries International to be the vaccine spokesperson for that organization and so that other people didn't really have to dig into it, and it's it's really egregious. And al Muehler is another one, and you know, he's like a big name in the Southern Baptist Theological Group. And and I will see he has a podcast

called The Briefing, and he also has been supporting vaccines. And I will of the three men, I will give al Muhller more grace because he seems to at least be trying to reason a little bit through it. Maybe it's not right, but what else are we going to do? And so nonetheless, we just have to be careful. Just because somebody's in a religious organization, we have got to be very discerning and what information we believe that they

teach. And then now let me go back to Jonathan Sarfatti, because he also has some articles on his Creation Ministry's International debunking flat Earth really, which my daughter tried to share with me when she was trying to convince me how wrong I was about flat Earth, and she sent me that article and I just started, I'm like, Okay, this comes from Christian Ministries International. And interestingly, the first article I read was by somebody named George Carter.

But then I dug a little deeper and George Carter had worked together on a piece with Jonathan Sarfatti debunking flat Earth. And so I'm like honey, I'm not even gonna I'm not even gonna read these because I know how I know how this man thinks, and I know that he's not honest with data. Yeah, that's it's interesting. I actually pulled up the article really quick.

It's from April twenty thirteen, and he actually, and unless I'm taking it out of context, he's saying that people who believe the flat earth is anti Christian. I would probably suspect that that's maybe what he's saying. I'll just read the paragraph. It says for the last two hundred years or so, many anti Christians have resorted to a scurliest lie, acting consistently with their worldview.

That they're early and medieval Christian taught that the Earth is flat, and if he would just take a few minutes and read, he would see that it didn't really come till after, of course, with the Thirty Year War and Martin Luther and all of that, when Copernicus really took hold and tried to via the Roman Catholic Church to deceive people. You know, he was a Jesuit, and you know, even Martin Luther. There's stories out there. You can find it, whether or not it's sure or not. I

mean, it's five hundred years old. We don't really know. But there are some writings out there that said Martin Luther, you know, said hey, this this Copernicus guy's bad news. Yeah. The very first video I watched on flat Earth. I'll get to my journey in a minute. I haven't got there yet, but the very first video that I watched after I was willing to actually look into it, and I had my crazy flat Earth friend who was kept sharing stuff, and I'm like, okay, send me

your best stuff. And so one of the first videos was Helio Sorcery and in that have you seen that? I've heard of it. I'm not sure if I've seen it. Okay, So it's really good. And he really whoever put that together laid out the case that the flat or the globe and the heliocentric model was something called learning against learning or the Catholic Church saw that

the Protestant Reformation was taking hold. They couldn't keep the Bible out of the hands of the people, so they had to find another way to turn them away from the truth of Scripture, and so they created this idea of learning against learning. Than the Jesuit Order was started, and they were going to become the master educators so that they could control the education and teach the people what they want. And then part of that, of course was Copernicus and

his heliocentric model. And in that he mentioned about Martin Luther like you had mentioned about him, saying that there was this new, upstart astronomer. And so I the kind of research that I do. I don't like to take somebody's word in a video. I want to go and I want to spine that article myself, and so I spent a lot of time researching and I found it, and it isn't a one of his table talks. Had a hard time finding it, but I found it, and he did say that

it's His argument was very simple, very biblical. It was just Joshua, you know that God made the sun stands still, not the earth when or the sun go back or standstill. No, it was standstill. And so to say anything other than the fact that the sun stood still is really it's against God. And Calvin had very similar comments about that one of the other formers, and he talked about the it's he went a step further and he

actually called it a demonic Satanic teaching. And people who defend Calvin, they try to say, oh, he just wasn't he just didn't know about science, he didn't know about astronomy. But both Calvin and Luther they did, and they talk about that also in their writings, that they do love astronomy and that they do love science. But for Calvin, it's like that if you're saying and for him it wasn't the flat earth. It was just if

you're saying that the Earth moves and not the sun. That's like calling day night and night day. It's so obvious that it's this way. Plus that's what the scriptures teach. And I think what those people who are defending again are defending, or those people who defend Calvin but don't defend him at that point, I think what they have forgotten is this idea that the Catholic Church is also the Synagogue of Satan, and there was a Reformation for a reason

because they had gotten so corrupt and they were evil. And so if this information is coming out of the Catholic Church and the working together with Jesuits, it was satanic and he knew that. But we're so separated from the concept of how evil. The Catholic Church is, and I'm not talking about every Catholic is evil. You know, I don't want to say that. I think there's some good people. I don't I'm not going to say whether they're going to have it or not. But it's the Pope, it's the it's

Rome and what's coming out of the Vatican. Yeah, back the whole reason for the split. And again, like you said, if I remember the story correctly, the printing presses had just come around, the Catholic Church were selling indulgences, and then Martin Luther, you know, he started spreading the word and all that happened, Copernicus happened. But one thing when you look at that timeline that happened just a little bit before the Reformation is I'm not

sure that Christopher Columbus story was created. But I do think that Christopher Columbus story was hijacked. The whole people were afraid to sail and fall off the edge of the earth. I think that was created by the people who controlled the history books, the text books. I should say. Yeah, that's

an interesting topic. I have from listening to your podcast, been exposed to so many and studying, researching, platter Earth as well, just exposed to so many ideas of you know, fake history and fake timelines, and and I'm sure there's truth to it. You know. I'm watching how they're rewriting our history right now with the founding of our count of the United States of America, truly was founded on biblical principles, and they're trying they've tried to

rewrite that in showing how that wasn't the case. And so if they're going to rewrite history right in front of our eyes, why wouldn't they rewrite history back then? Yeah, and they can do it just a little bit of a time, because excuse me, these people are generational. They play the long game. Well, what was your first exposure to flat Earth? How did you even come upon it? The first memory that I have, but I must have heard about it before because I knew enough to reject it was

my brother who's now since passed away. He called me on the phone. We weren't close, but we talked once in a while and he's like, I really I think that the Earth is flat. And I said, Brian, come on, that's ridiculous. That's just they're just trying to divert you from the truth, and so I just dismissed it. And when I started seeing like connections between anti vaxers and flat earthers, I'm like, they're just doing that because they really want to make anti vaxers look ridiculous. And by

the way, I'm not anti vaccine. I am pro vaccine safety. I've never as you, I've never seen one that I think is safe. There you go. But if there was a way, I would be percent for that. That's great. We do need to because I get emails all the time, you know, how we should rephrase flat Earth either Biblical Earth or you know, there's so many great things out there. I'm just afraid I don't. I don't want to change the title because that's how so many people

have found it. But I do agree at some point, I think we as a movement should should, you know, I don't know, walk away from flat Earth to to something else, whether it's firmament or earth or biblical Earth or something like that. I think for now we need flat Earth because that's I wouldn't have found you. Yeah, exactly. That's that's what I tell the folks. That's that's what people put in the search engines and that's

how they find it. So I'm not going to fix something that's broken at this point, right, But I think that there's going to be a next generation people who can take the knowledge that they're learning and then they can present it and they can get rid of the terms. That's kind of the way I see it. So, Okay, So my brother told me he believed the earth was flat. I said he was ridiculous, and just dismissed it

without any kind of thought or consideration. And of course then I would see them comparing vaccine anti vactors to flat ruthers, and I'm like, oh, that's just that's so wrong. They shouldn't do that. It's totally different. I just I didn't know how undifferent it was. It wasn't. So then in twenty twenty, I just gained some new friends because I was looking for like minded people who understood what was going on with the whole pandemic and I

needed sanity. I was in groups of like Christian groups where you were not allowed to even talk about things, and it was almost like they were making rules right before the pandemic, so you couldn't talk about certain things and so and this again I start seeing these people infiltrating. When he started wanting to talk about true topics and you start they start shutting you off. I'm thinking, there's got to be somebody in this group who doesn't want the truth out

and they're purposely in there. And so I just started seeing a lot of that, and I've got kicked out of some groups, and I still get kicked out of groups sometimes. But I made some new friends and was following some new information. I had this friend, her name was Gretchen, and she had a telegram channel and I got on it, and she has like

eleven followers on her telegram channel. But she's sharing everything from vaccine information to pandemic to you know, the crisis in the world, you know, economics, and just whatever anything that pertains to the day that we're living. And but she's also sharing like fake moon landings and sat a loons, and I'm

just like, oh, they're ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And to me, the idea of sat a loon was just so preposterous, right, Like, it's the nineteen thirties, right, that's what your mind onto goes to. Yeah, and and tell can you guess when that changed? When the Chinese Sadaloon became across the news. Yes, I was like, oh, I was just like flabbergasted. So anyway, but I had already started researching at

that time, but still the saddle looons I thought was ridiculous. But um, until that point, I still I'm still interested in studying that more. But anyway, so I started just listening to her posts on flatters and the different things that she was sharing. And at one point she's like, well, to her eleven followers, do you guys want me to stop posting about flatter Earth? And I'm like, I don't know. I kind of get a kick out of it, you know, I just kind of think it's

funny, interesting. And so she kept sharing stuff and and then I just you know, and I heard things about the firmament and and I just I went back to Genesis one. I'm like, okay, Lord, what do you have here? And I'm like waters over the you know, the waters above the firmament. And I'm just like, yeah, okay, I hear you know, I hear that, but what does it mean? And you know, I'm trying to justify different ways. That was actually one of the

hardest things for me to accept. Was the idea of the firmament that. So then I'm outside and I'm looking up at the at the moon and the sun, and I'm like, how doesn't make sense? You know, I just started observing. I'm like, I'm just like sitting still, you know, Oh, it doesn't feel like I'm moving, and you know, I just start observing everything. And then I started watching some well, okay, so that's kind of where I was. I didn't wasn't researching at that time.

I was just just observing, watching what she shared. And and then finally I'm just like, okay, Gretchen, give me your best stuff. She gave me the Helios Restreet and I think the Lost History of Flat Earth was the next one. Yeah, it's like the five or six hour one. Yeah, very fascinating. I'm like, oh my goodness, my husband would absolutely love this. I know he would, so anyway, and I'm just filing information. I don't I don't believe what I hear. I file

it away and I look for confirmation. And then I go and research the things that, you know, really seem to tickle my ears and start looking into Einstein and his theory of relativity and his own admission that he you can't buy any experiment observe that the Earth moves, but yet it moves. And I'm like, well, that's about science. That's anti science, that's vaccine

science. And so I just started just looking at just from a scientific perspective, the way that you have to come up with a globe, and even science itself, how it's hijacked. It's just been totally hijacked. In fact, it's almost science is not real. Science is fake. That's how bad it is. I do believe there is a scientific method, you know that we should be able to observe something and repeat it and you know, test hypotheses, but that's not what was going on. What I started seeing is

that they're back paddling with their information. It's like, we think it's this, and so here's an equation that I'll make it come to that conclusion, which is exactly what they do with evolution. Also, and I had never bought into evolution, just by the grace of God, because I was raised in a Baptist church and Baptist believe in a literal sixth day creation. That's

what we do. I'm not a Baptist anymore, but um, I'm so thankful for that solid ground that I didn't believe in evolution, but it's the same kind of science that they're using for evolution that they're using for a globe. And it was when I realized that that I'm you know, I'm still not one hundred percent there. But did you want to make some comments before I go on? No, really, it's a it's a fascinating story.

And again, the biggest thing with flat earth again, it's it's interesting when you had mentioned that you grew up in a Baptist church and they were very like most um, you know, churches are about the sixth day creation, but they won't even tolerate flat earth, which is not you know, it wouldn't be fair to say it's cut and dry, but I mean it's very clear about the firmament and they don't even really have you ever discussed it with

a preacher what the firmament is? Well, I came to accept years ago that the firmament was like the water canopy. I don't know if you've heard that theory. So I listened to that and I just accepted that theory. And so I never really have questioned anybody. I know, there's different views on it, and the idea of it being firm and hard is something that I had never considered before until researching this. And I have to say,

and this is I have to say, it's sad on my part. I think I might have mentioned this to you before that I usually I wish the Bible was like where I was like, Okay, it says that, and I believe it. I wish, I wish that was the case, but I like to see evidence, and because if there's more than one theory, you know, well, okay, a water canopy, but it didn't rain on the earth until the flood or a mist used to come up from the

water. It says the water the earth. But but Calvin held the position that the waters above the firmament was clouds above the firmament, and then the water below would be the water on the ground. And I'm okay, you know, I'm just thinking about these things and sounds like it's possible. But what really pushed me over on the firmament was the in Cyclopedia Americana in nineteen fifty eight. Yeah, that's right. They actually talk about it, they

sure do, and then all of a sudden it's missing it. And of course you have all those operations in the Antarctic. So and that's the thing I always go back to. You know, the Germans are in the middle of a world war. It started nineteen thirty nine, and that's when they're down there with New Swabia. I mean that lends credence to theres some importance going down there. And there was a video on YouTube for some time then

again, the Great Purge of twenty eighteen twenty nineteen. It's very hard to find, but they talk about the blue Ice and the researchers down there that have been trying to figure out what the blue ice is, which obviously is what most people believe is the firmament. They believe there's some type of magic they try to reverse engineer, and they think that's what like ninety percent of the things they do in Antarctica is is trying to it's got to do with

the firmament the sky. I actually have seen a video on that, but it was kind of I don't know, I don't trust everything. I yeah watch, but at the same time, you know, I do believe that whatever they're doing in Antarctic Antarctica, with the treaty and everything, there's something there's something down there and we don't know what it is, and they're not going to let us know, and so that to me is just a big red flag that something major is going on. And to have all these countries

colluding together is I would think it would be impossible. This is some of the responses I get from my family, like they could never hide the globe, you know that nobody could get together and do that. I'm like, okay, well, what just happened with the pandemic? Right? You know that? I think the whole world, the war of the world, things like, these people believe anything they hear or see or read, and Burney's kind of stepped in and he proved it. So I think that's why they

were so bold. In my opinion that that's why they were they went forward with faking the moon landing because they believe that once again, people will believe anything they see. And even Nixon was the one in nineteen seventy one he said people won't believe anything until they see it on TV. And he was the one who was in office when they pulled that off. It's funny. I have a cousin who was sharing with me that they don't they believe in

that the moon landing is fake. And he was sharing with my anyway, my cousin was sharing that his father said, no, son, it was real. I saw it. And now she's trying to share with him about flat earth and he's like, no, I've seen a globe one. So just inconsistency. We all have them. Sure, yeah, absolutely. Was there one piece of evidence that put you over the top. Absolutely there was.

And this is the one that I just kept going back to when everyone would bring to me all my dear family who wanted to break me from my spell, wanted to show me all this evidence of why I'm wrong. The one thing that I couldn't shake was the fact of there's no curvature. Yeah, that's a big one. We can see too far right, Yeah, And I think the black Swan, which I've seen different iterations of that, and the one that really spoke to me. Of course, I had already

come to accept it. But the fact that you can't have a and not a it's just it's a logical fallacy. It's not possible. So either we're on a globe or we're on a flat plane, and it can't be both. And if we're on a globe that has we have a measurement. See this goes back to science and calculations. We have a calculation of the curve. You know, math doesn't lie if you're using the numbers, honestly,

And we have a calculation eight inches per miles squared. And so we have a calculation and especially over water, right and if we're not because we do to know. Landscape changes, sure, but and elevation elevations change. So in fact I have a question. Maybe you can answer this, how do elevations work on a globe? Yeah, And I've tried to explain that before. If people would sit down and do the math with the Nile River in Africa, because obviously it starts lower and as you get to the equator of

the Earth is fatter, which makes it even higher. How does that work that? That's one of my biggest questions. And I never get a complete answer on that. And I mean there's just thousands of questions like, yeah, well, you know, I've known people who've been Antarctica. Why isn't the blood rushing to their head? Oh? Because of gravity? Just all

these different things that just doesn't make any sense. And the way the toilet water spins that's been debunked, and again we're not going to have all the answers, and it would be silly, silly of us as humans. I don't think God wants us to know everything. I don't know if I don't want that to sound like God doesn't want us to know everything. But I

just think there's some things we're never going to know. And I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe that's you know, I understand as humans were curious, but I mean, the Earth is, you know, say, six thousand, sixty five hundred years old. There's still a lot of mysteries out there, and I don't think we'll be close to solving them in our

lifetime, not all of them. But I do think that if we didn't have this great deception right over our head, that we could start tapping into well like free energy and the ether and just so many things that would open up so many possibilities for us. But we're like locked into this globe model, so we can't go and explore. We can't go and explore Antarctica,

we can't go up high ourselves. NASA does it. You know, NASA controls all the information and all the data, and so I think that once that and this is where that hope comes in again, is I pray against these evil enemies and I ask God to tear them down because I believe that's what he wants to do. Because as it's been mentioned many times on your show, is that the heavens declare the glory of God. This is God's

glory. And if we're worshiping an idol, something that man has created image of the heavens that isn't real, and we believe that we are serving an idol, so to speak, it's it's fake. And once and since Christ has power over all things, I mean, he has all power in heaven and earth, and He's commissioned us in that power, and he desires his pre eminence on all things. He hates Nasa, he hates these lots. He wants the truth. And so I do believe that He is going to

tear down these enemies. I don't know if it's going to be in our lifetime. I would like it to be. And how do people not get you know, reading the Old Testament and what God did after they were trying to get to heaven with the Tower of Babel they're doing the same thing with the rockets. How I don't know how people don't see this. And you know, we talk about many of our guests, like yourself has said, if we could just get people to kind of wake up and realize that we're

being lied to on this grand scale. What have somebody emailed me today and said it perfectly, you said, people want to be told the truth. They don't want to take the time to find the truth for themselves, and unfortunately they're taking the words from the wrong people. And there they're really a lot of these people are sheep being led to a slaughter. Yeah, that is so so sad but true. And you know where there's a lot of

people out there that are doing their best. I mean, flat earth is a part of it, you know, to a certain degree if you come at it from the biblical cosmology. But I've gotten so many emails and this really is a tip of that to you guys, the listeners and everybody who's come on this program, including Michelle and everybody else who has been a part of this journey. We have really we have led people to Jesus Christ. And if there's anything whether I walk away from this podcast in a week or

in ten years. Uh, that will be my biggest accomplishment. And when I say we, I mean all of us. It's it's a community. That's amazing, you know what A what a privilege and a blessing and an honor to be a part of that. And I know I've heard other people that I've listened to testify that understanding it. We live on a place that

God created for us, and he's protecting us. He's not We're not wrote you know, going through space at thousands of miles an hour, that when they realize that personal God who loves us and he placed us here and this earth, and it helps them have hope and for life, and it has brought them to Him. And I just think that that's amazing. Yeah.

And I'd like to add, when when I on my other podcast, when I researched World War two, the Gulf of Tonk and all these other terrible things that have brought great pain and misery on the on the human people, flat Earth is the exact opposite. Now, I guess for a minute there I was kind of upset that once again I've been lied to, But at the same time I felt free, like it was a different kind of like when I went down that rabbit hole and came out, I wasn't angry.

I I really I felt free. I understood that the matrix is in your mind. And when you realize that, you know there are people here that are hiding God, and you move them out of the way, life is so much better. And the only thing that was a little disappointing. And I don't know if you encountered this. I was so excited and I wanted to share it with everybody. Not everybody quite accepts it the same way we

do, right, That is very true. So, but I like to be challenged to a point, and my husband has challenged me, and my daughter has challenged me. My father has challenged me. And of the three, I think my dad's been the most interested, my husband has been the least interested, and my daughter is She was interesting. She was coming from a position that her a friend of her father, her biological father who's now no longer live, had was a flat earther, and so she, my

daughter, was trying to find study flat Earth. And I she must have gone to the Flat Earth Society or something, or I'm not sure what, because she came out like Oh, how stupid. You know, it's wrong. And so when I started talking to her about She's like, oh, I've already you know, I've already been down that trail. And of course then I'm like, well what about this? What about that? And then she sent sent me an article. This is really interesting. There were two

lines of thought that I struggled with. She sent me an article about flight paths, and it was it was supposedly these flight flat flight paths that prove we live on a globe. And I'm scratching my head because I'm like, there's the you know, emergency landings that prove we live on flat earth, And so how does this how can this article be coming to this, you know, this opposite conclusion of what seems logical based on the flight patterns that

I investigated. And so I looked into it, and I looked into one flight specifically and on this particular thing that was by George Carter. It was on the Christian Ministries International. It was not co authored by Jonathan Sarfodi this particular article, but he was. It was like a homeschool project. This

is so cool. We got these flight patterns and we're going to prove that the Earth is a globe, and so put together the saying, well, I just picked one and it was I think from Perth to Johannesburg, and they have this one way flight on there and and it was shorter than the flight that goes up to Dubai and down, and I thought, you know, I mean, that really was a head scratcher for me. I was just like, really threw me back, because I hadn't become convinced yet at

one hundred percent. I was getting close. And and then I watched this video by Banjo something Banjo Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Earth, yeah, flat Earth Banjo. So he was talking about them faking flights, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is just ridiculous. They're not going to fake flights just to just debunk a you know, to debunk flatters. And then I started thinking about it. I'm like, well, they did fake the moon landing, and they did fake the the globe, so why

why wouldn't they fake a flight? And and here's the thing, I can't afford two thousand dollars to go take that flight to test it, and so it's not testable, observable and repeatable for me. Now, maybe for someone else it is, and I'm open, you know, but I don't know how fast that plane is going. You know, there's just so many factors that you that you would have to put into that equation to be able to

really call that concrete proof. And even then, um, when you have it was when I was thinking about this and I'm like, oh, oh no, maybe I'm wrong. And then I'm like, yeah, but we can see too far, that's right. You know. It's like it's either we're living on a flat earth or we're living on a globe. It can't be both. And if we're on a globe, it has to curve somewhere and and where is that? And I'm so committed to this cause I even saved up my my allowance so that I could buy a Nikon P that things

heavy. I wish I would have gone through the nine hundred, but um, I still haven't been able to do any distant testing with it. But I have done some photography of the moon and the stars. And another issue with my daughter was, you know, I was trying to share with her about the Bible says that the moon is a light. That's right, that's a big one. It's not reflection of the Sun, they tell us. And the other thing is you either have to believe the globe or not.

And they say the globe on top of everything else between all of the Luciferian numerology that's involved with it, says it's four and a half billion years old, and of course the Big Bang and everything else that goes with it.

So once again, if you're going with the globe, are you gonna just pick and choose, you know, what you believe and whatnot, or are you gonna actually just And I urge people, maybe if this is the first podcast you're listening to in the series, just put down your pride a little bit and lower your guard. And it's not I'm here to tell you it's not as crazy as you think. And for the first forty eight years of my life I wouldn't even would I would have sent you for a drug test.

And for whatever reason, God led me to put my guard down just long enough to talk to David Weiss. And one thing I should say is flat Earth Banjo is great. He did a episode yes day talking about when lasers hit the firmament, So I'll put his YouTube channel in the show description as well. So we'll have that. We'll have that Encyclopedia Brita Canna Britannic excuse me from nineteen fifty eight, because I don't ever want to assume people

have listened to every single podcast. So all that stuff we've talked about tonight will be in the show description for folks to check out, just in case it's the first time you're listening. And what you said, George is so key. It was letting down my guard. I had made a commitment years ago, or maybe months ago. I don't know that I was going to trust God's word no matter what, and I would believe it wherever it took

me. And so I don't have to be afraid to research anything. But if my guard was up and I wasn't willing to research it, I would have never ever come to the conclusions that I have because I would have never considered it. And so, and we shouldn't have to be afraid to research anything, you know, any topic if it interests us, and so just you know, I would just say to anybody, if you're on defense, just just look into it. You know, I believe the evidence becomes irrefutable.

It's just becomes so obvious the lies that we've been taught, the fake science, the lack of observation of things that we accept. It's just as mind boggling, it really is. And one thing I want to mention before

I forget, you have been a tremendous It's been a tremendous conversation. I want to remind folks that in the show description there's going to be Michelle's email, but she also has a sub stack and that's going to be in the show description, and it's called Reformed Earth, and there's a chat room in there, so you can click on the trap of the chat excuse me, and you can drop a message to Michelle and to conversate there as well.

Was there anything that you had maybe and that we haven't talked about yet that you wanted to mention. I'm sure there's a lot of things. I took so many notes, but I thought, you know what, Michelle, You're not going to even be able to go through all these notes and I would be stumbling like where did I write that down? Or that the website was

that on? I did want to follow up on, you know, the taking the picture of the moon, sure, and with my p Nick on P one thousand is you can see the raise of light coming out of the

moon. And I don't know any other way to explain that. And when I sent that picture to my daughter after I took it, and I because she I had mentioned to her about the moon being a light, and she went and she said, well, I went and I researched all the passages in the Bible, and I could not find one of them that would absolutely

have to be the moon being a light. And I settle, Okay, you know, I didn't push her on it, And then I took that picture of the moon and I'm like, do you see did you notice like where it looks like there's like light rays coming out of it? Like, yeah, I kind of saw that. I mean, so again, I think it's because again around the water cool at work, people they'll talk about

most air quote conspiracy theories. But again they have made it such a stigmatism, right, nobody wants to be associated with being called a flat earth. That is their Bernasian mining control that the controllers have on the people. And again I think it's Genesis one sixteen that is very plain about it. He made two great lights, one to rule the day and a lesser to rule the night. You know, I agree on now, I would have argued against it maybe a year ago, right right light, Yeah, exactly.

And it goes back to, you know, we either take the Bible wholesale or we don't. We can't. I feel that we just can't pick and choose, because it's it's funny people think that that people thousands of years ago weren't smart. And there is an article out there. I need to find

it and drop it in the chat room. A couple of years ago, they took a test I think it was tenth graders from eighteen eighty five, and they gave it to tenth graders of maybe it was twenty eighteen or something like that, and I think ninety plus percent of them failed out right. So to say that those people back then weren't smart, I don't know. It's I think they have hidden so much wisdom from us from us over the years. And that's what the Illuminati is all about, being illuminated, hiding

information from the masses. And this is part of their long range plan, was to dumb down the masses. And when the federal government hijacked the education system, they make it less and less challenging. Now the City of Chicago, their new mayor is saying no more homework and no more fs. So, like you said, going back to it doesn't matter if you win or lose. Everybody gets a hot dog. Do you think these these children are going to try? Of course not. Oh that's that's so sad to hear.

Yeah. And then when you take what you just said about people being supposedly less smart the older, in the older generations, but you look at the architecture and you look at the stops that they did, and you it just there's like a disconnect because obviously some of this architecture is far superior than anything we can put out with our modern tools, or that we even attempt

to. Absolutely one hundred percent, I couldn't agree more. And that really I think comes out in the history of flat Lost history of flat Earth and talking about these cathedrals and potential, and I just take it as a potential because I don't know if they really generated electricity, but I think they made a really excellent case for that, especially when you throw in Nicola Tesla and his basically saying that Einstein was just he's all theory and it's there's no reality

in the physics in the world that we live in. And and Tesla was all about patents and experiments and actually producing some result as opposed to writing an equation after the fact to prove something that's not true exactly. And you know, I should mention, by the way, we've mentioned the lost history of flat Earth a few times. I actually put that on my flat Earth file Rumble channel nine weeks ago and it has twenty one thousand views, so I

should probably put that in the show description as well. Once again, for people, let's not assume everybody has listened to every episode, so but make sure you pack a lunch when you watch it. It's like six hours. It is a long one. But wait, you know, I really believe that God wants wants us to know the truth, and so I think we ought to be praying and asking God to open eyes, and and I hope that he opens the eyes of my family. My husband, he won't even

he won't even talk about it with me. So he used to. He worked up for rocketyne oh okay, subsidiary of NASA. Right, yes, he worked on the actually on the Space Shuttle. He was a rocket propulsion engineer on the Space Shuttle program gotcha in, so, he says Michelle, I've I've just seen things that you just don't understand. So okay, Yeah, I used to believe that too, But you know, when I reflected on my time in the military, things are so compartmentalized. I used to

believe so many things. But I also at the same time I realized how easy it was because these corporations like Rockadine, like NASA, like the US military, which again NASA and the US military, they're all part of the same military industrial complex. And people say, why would they blow up the Challenger? Well, you mean other than the three billion dollar contract they got to rebuild the next Space Shuttle and that's its own rabbit hole in itself.

Yeah, they deal with out on level three. Yeah, exactly, really, which you know they on level three they proposed an interesting idea which I don't agree with, but it was at least interesting that defirmament is flat. What did you did you watch that? And what were your thoughts on that? I heard about it. I haven't watched it yet, know I guess I would have an issue with it as far as if it is holding the

water above? Are they saying that it would be flat across and then go straight up, because I mean, according to the Bible, the windows of the firmament were open to to flood the earth. So I guess i'd have to watch. I forget was this a video or audio podcast. It was a video podcast. You actually had to pay for it. The first two or free, but this one, and they may make it pre eventually, but I mean I paid five dollars for it, so it was worth it.

So exactly when when you say the firmament is flat, exactly how did they describe it? Well, they didn't go into a lot of detail, but they basically we're saying, just like the Earth is a flat plane, the firmament is a flat plane. So it's a solid surface, but a flat plane. And I you know, I don't know does it have boundaries? You know, I don't know how is it infinite? They didn't go

into a whole lot of details. And I think my biggest qualm with that is it seems that we are limited by the sun light because I don't think there can be unlimited Well, there could be unlimited land, but there's only

one sun and so it has its limits. And I've watched the some videos which are very interesting on the Moon being a reflection of the land, And there was one that talked about like how through the ages that maybe the sun is it moves its course through the ages so that new land is exposed.

I can't remember where I saw that, but it was interesting. So, but there's no other way to if the Moon is a mirror of the Earth, which I'm not saying it is, but if it is, if there's a whole lot more land being shown on the Moon than we are, we than the known Earth. So I am open to more land for sure, but I don't know where it is. It would be in an Antarctica area for sure, and maybe even at the North Pole. I've heard some things,

so that's a big thing there. And I've gotten several emails saying that, you know, they talk about Antarctica so much, is that a distraction? Because think about it, like God is above the polaris right that people say that, you know, he sits on his throne, his feet are there. So maybe two things. Number One, people say that Antarctica might be a distraction to a certain extent. Maybe, but I still think there's a lot of things down there that they know about that they don't want us

to know about. But the other thing I wanted to mention was, you know, I got caught up in the David Waste videos too, and I always give them credit for waking me up to this, but I started getting excited about, well, maybe there is land past you know, Antarctica, and then and again, maybe there is other suns and moons. And then but you go back to the Bible. You know there's only one son in one moon. There's not multiple. He made two great lights wonderful, you

know what I mean. So maybe there's hidden land absolutely, who knows what else they're lying about? Um, And maybe there are more secrets in the Arctic. But again I go back to the Bible, and I think, m anything that's livable would be within this realm here, right. I agree, unless we can create an artificial son, and I think that's possible too, But I believe that we are. We have the firmament has boundaries. I don't. I don't think it's Yeah, I agree with you on both.

I saw a video I think it was in China where they created an artificial son. Wasn't there something about that? Maybe six months a year ago? Yeah, it's been in the it's been in the in some of my telegram and between that and harp and what. But you know, Glendale, you know, it's just messing with nature that these things. I don't think pleases God very much. Oh no, I know it doesn't. And and I believe it's his zeal that's going to put an end to it. I

just don't know what that's going to look like. Yeah, and um, we have enemies, so you know, in America we have all kinds of enemies that could come in. You know, we think we have in America. The Church and Mass has come to accept the fact that God's laws are burdensome and we don't have to obey them, that they're not valid. They're can you know, they're suggestion, the ten suggestions, the ten suggestions.

Oh yeah, that's right, because you know, if we follow the Bible to the letter, we're not going to be able to enjoy ourselves, right, right, right, And and that's legalistic. And but the Bible teaches that his law, God's law is the law of liberty. It's the law that brings freedom, it's the law that keeps tie rants in check. And it's the law that brings blessing and joy. And you know, God wants nothing more than for us to eat under our own fig tree and not be

oppressed by people or nations or tyrants. He wants us to be free, not free to sin, but free to enjoy the abundant life that Jesus Christ came to give. He says, I have come to give you life and to give it to you more abundantly. And so this lie, it's it's a satanic lie that, oh, no, God's ways are terrible, they're not fun, they're not fun. It's Satan's lie. And the reality is that it's just the opposite. God's laws are wonderful and they bring blessing and

bounty and peace and joy, and when they're applied lawfully. Because we can use God's law unlawfully. It talks about using it lawfully in the Bible. And how do we use it lawfully? Well, it's not the way to salvation. We cannot be saved by keeping the law. If it was possible for anybody to be saved by keeping the law, then Jesus would not have had to die on our behalf. And that's the gospel. But what does come is the blessings upon nations when they keep His law, blessings on households,

sometimes with persecution too, because we're in a battle. And until all the enemies are under Christ's feet. And this is Psalm one ten one. I hope I just gave the right one. It talks about Christ ruling until all of his enemies are under his feet. And that is the most quoted verse in the New Testament. And that's what he's in the process of doing.

He is in the process because he's ruling now. It says, he is sitting at the right hand of God, and he has all power and authority, and he is ruling now, and he's using his church where kings and queens pre and you know, in his kingdom, trying to bring his law to bear on all of society, starting in our life and our homes and our cities, in our countries and nations. And but it says, and this is over and over. You just study the saw on one ten

and how it's used in the New Testament. It says he must reign until all of his enemies are a footstool for his feet. And it's not talking about reigning here on earth. It's talking about him reigning in heaven. In fact, there's a couple verses that specifically say that he's in heaven, that he must be in heaven until all of these things have happened, until all of his enemies are under his feet, And I just want can I recommend

a sermon series? Sure? Okay, So we went through this in twenty twenty, and we started in probably in twenty nineteen, and it carried us into twenty twenty because it's like a hundred sermon series, at least one hundred. But it's on the Book of Revelation, and it's from Philip Kaiser is the pastor, And I think you go to Biblical blueprints dot com. I probably should, um, and then Revelation Study. Do you want to look that up or do you want me to look that up? What was the

website again? Um? I think it's I'll let me just look it up. Okay, there's a YouTube channel, but it's definitely not the same. Okay, yeah, no, this isn't. He's on sermon audio also, but he has a like the Revelation Project is what it's called. H Oh, I can't get to my keyboard and Biblical okay, Biblical that's not it, all right, I will send you a Linkum, did you say it was Biblical blueprints dot com? Yes, pet, yes, yes, that's

it right there. And that sermon series for my husband and I was life changing. We went through it during the pandemic and it was like we were binge listening to it. It was it was just so good. And he just opened up the Book of Revelation in a way that has never been opened up to us before. And there's time indicators in there about when these things will happen, and he talks about that. And so as a society we have been i think misled on when the book was written and when the book

was, what the audience to, who to whom it was written. And so it's very much parallels the Book of Ezekiel, which Ezekiel is talking about the destruction of the Temple when they when Israel went into captivity to Babylon, and the Book of Revelation, not the whole book, but a lot of the book is dedicated to the destruction of Jerusalem in seventy a d. And he proves that just in my opinion, just hands down, using history and

coins. And the Bible of course is the primary source and reading common tarries from every possible viewpoint to come up with what he really believes the Texas teaching and I just think, again, I've never found one person that I agree with one hundred percent, but this sermon series is so spot on, and it just helped us to understand all the irrational things that we were seeing happening

during COVID because things were so irrational. And one of the points that he makes in this sermon series is when you see things irrational happening, you can know for sure that there's demonic activity involved. And it just helped us navigate the pandemic so so much better because I didn't have fear over what was going on. I was able to just go, Okay, God, so it got this. He's in control, he knows what he's doing. I may not know he's doing, but he knows. Yeah. This is great.

Make sure, folks, when you click on the link, it's one hundred and eighteen episodes, but you got to start from the bottom. The first episode was actually recorded April twenty six, twenty fifteen, and the one hundred and eighteenth episode wrapped up December twenty six, twenty eighteen. This was. I mean, this is a work of love to put this much effort into this. So again, folks, this will be in the show description for you guys to enjoy. It'll take you to the website and just scroll down

a little bit and then it'll say the full text. It gives you the text and audio of every of A one, one and eighteen sermons on revelations. And keep in mind he does not come from a flat earth perspective, but I do believe he's been influenced by Martin Selbretti, who is a geocentrist. I'm pretty sure. Now I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was. It was this sermon series or one series from him where he recommended us to a series or a movie called The Principle, which is about

geocentrism versus heliocentrism. It was a I don't know, do you know soon Gennis. He's the one who he did some debate with Rob Scheba, I think one time. But anyway, he's the one who put the documentary out. But our friend acquaintance, Martin Celbretti was featured, not featured, but he was in the film, and so we watched it and apparently we weren't too moved by it because we left the way still global on the globe so or in the heliocentric model. But we all have our journey and it's it's

got to be the right time for us to accept the information. I've learned that and I'm just glad that that it has reached so many people. And with that, we do need to wrap it up. I would like to give you the asked word to address the folks. Okay, first of all, thank you, and I did have something that was top of mind, but it just went to the bottom. Oh no, maybe you'll remember, Maybe I will remember. Oh I know, yes, I do remember. And that was the first time I reached out to you. I think I

was about ninety eight percent believing in the flat earth. The thing that was holding me back was the absolute proof that the rotation of the stars in the Southern hemisphere disproved of flat earth. So that was what was holding me back. But one of your listeners sent in an email and mentioned about a series from Pinnacle Baptist Church. And after going through that series, because the way he presented it, there was nothing in it that I was like, I

can't share this with other people. He had some different views on the end times and whatnot, but that after I went through that series, I was one hundred percent convinced of flat Earth. And it was you had you talk a lot about how you had those like two weeks of sleeplessness. Well, I was just spending every free moment that I had researching flat Earth and until I watched this series, and I by the end of the series, I was just like, Michelle, you believe this, you just need to accept

it. And I'm like, okay. And so it was that video series that really pushed me over the edge from Pinnacle Baptist Church, and you had shared I don't remember what episode it was in, but whoever sent that email, I just just thank you so much. What he did different than anyone else is he started with the Bible and he said, here's what the Bible teaches, and then he presented the evidence. And it wasn't like he added

there wasn't anything new that he shared. And I didn't agree with everything he said, but there was nothing knew that he shared that I had not already heard or listened to. But the way he laid it out, it just it was like he almost was just really going through my own journey, and I'm like, you know what, I just need to accept that that the Earth is flat. And as soon as I accepted it, that insatiable urge to research it just it just went away. And I just accepted it.

I embraced that I believe in the flat earth or you know, not a globe. And it was really just very peaceful. I still research all the time, but I'm not like obsessed with it. That's awesome, what a great story, and it's it's really wonderful. What a community we have. Like every time we have a guest on they email me back, is like within two days they've got all kinds of emails and have new acquaintance. So

it is really quite a cool community to be a part of. And if you would put that link for the Pinnacle Baptist Church, if you still have that, I would. I just think your readers, if anybody's on the fence, I think it's just a really excellent series. Yeah I emailed that to you, right, Um, No, it was actually it was in one of your podcast episodes probably haven't written written down. It was an email somebody had sent you and you had you know how you read your email.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it must have been in the show description. I'll find it. Yeah, for sure, it was in the show notes. Yeah, it was in the show notes. I wish I could tell you which episode. That's okay, I can my where I produced these things that the search engine works really well, I should find it pretty quick. Excellent. Well, well thank you, yeah, well, thank you.

It's it's been just a tremendous two hours and I know you're going to get a lot of positive feedback and I know everybody's going to be very appreciative of everything that you talked about tonight. And again, if you'd like to reach out to Michelle, her email will be there, but also check out her substack again. There's a chat room and it's Michelle m I S C H E l l E dot substack dot com. And don't worry about trying

to write it down. It'll be in the show description. So just click on it and you can jump in, you can read her articles, you can jump in the chat and you can go from there. So again, once once again, thank you so much. Michelle. It's been a real pleasure meeting you, and I hope we can do this again down the road. Absolutely, thank you so much, George, you bet