The following presentation is abol Marvis Studio's production.
When you look on the sky, do you feel the poll?
The question why.
The stories told and left behind in shadows where the truth we find. They built their tails on grafts and lives on theories.
They stake their designed.
Put down here on this solid graph, the answer screen. They're all around, rising, break through all the fat.
Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files. I'm your host is always George Hobbes as we record on this Wednesday evening, June eighteenth, twenty twenty five. I hope this message finds you well in the uh the world. That certainly doesn't leave us short of a conversation, that's for sure.
There's always something going on.
Two quick notes before we start our conversation with Reinhold this evening. First and foremost, please do stop by the website. Like so many of you have and have, you've jumped on truthnet dot com and you've jumped to our social area and joined.
I appreciate that.
And again it's truthernet dot com that's our home for both podcasts. Also, if you would like to join the podcast like Reinhold is today.
What you need to do is send us an email and that email address.
Is fe filesguest at gmail dot com. And again that is f isn't Frank is an Echo files guest at gmail dot com. We'll get you a very brief questionnaire. We're really focused on where you live in the times you're available, and then we're going to try to get you scheduled at this point for August. So there you go, and I think that's all the house keeping we have for this evening. So at this point we're going to jump right into it and we're going to welcome Rhinhold to the audio cast.
Reinhold, how are you, sir?
I'm doing well. Thank you George.
Yeah, thanks, I said.
Every time I say the word podcast, I think of our guest Wayne from I Guess about a month ago. But let's jump into it. Please take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience.
Yes, so I'm Reinhold, and that's not my real name, but I am it is my name for this occasion and for other occasions including books that I've written and an email. So I am Reinhold, and I'm getting more used to that and so yeah, I'm from Canada, Les if you could tell by my accent, and yeah, I love this topic. So I'm thankful George inviting me.
On, absolutely, and it's a pleasure to have you on. And as always, I guess you know, the first question is, you know, we send out the questionnaire and you said that you've been into biblical cosmology since twenty seventeen, and that seems to be I guess when I talk to people who were awake at that time, I think it was late twenty nineteen or twenty twenty when I woke up that that was kind of the spike there, and that was right about it, at the point where they
really started to ramp up the censorship. So I guess my first question would be what was your kind of journey in your rabbit hole.
To biblical cosmology? How did that work?
Well, it.
Probably goes way back. But as far as why I was susceptible, I suppose you could say to believing it. But my friend Wayne, who was on the show, told me on his balcon I remember it. I remember the day where he said the Earth is flat and the Bible says so, and I said, brother, and I don't remember what else I said. I'm pretty sure I said, brother in a sort of unbelieving sort of way. How can you say that, or what do you mean? I probably I was. I've been quite open to different ideas.
I'm accustomed to believing things about the Bible that other people don't accept, such as I am charismatic, with having believing in speaking in tongues, healings, things like that that. So I haven't been one. Plus, I came to Christ at a later age, at the age of nineteen. I lived my life and done quite a bit of drugs for a couple of years before that, and had some experiences spiritual experiences where I believed in God, and then a friend told me about Jesus, and I believed in Jesus.
So I know how radical it is to change beliefs. But I also know the same spirit that led me to Christ to change that belief, to radically change my mind her life by twenty seventeen. By twenty sixteen, I needed something in my life, and I wasn't going to get into all of it, but I had gotten to a point where I needed a touch from the Lord. I needed some change, I needed a revival. God sent several things, including a revival in evangelism that but it
included also this was huge. This was huge. That Wayne told me that is the summer of twenty sixteen, and it took me about a calendar year of searching and watching videos and frankly just driving to work and looking at the horizon, reading the Bible, reading the Bible, looking at the horizon, reading the Bible, watching videos and looking again. And I remember coming to well, my friend believes it. I have a friend who believes this. I have a
friend who believes this. It's kind of interesting. I have a friend believes this. It's really interesting. I want I kind of want to believe this actually myself, and I'm thinking this to myself, and by this time I'm not going to say this to anyone else yet, but I'm like, I want this to be true. I don't. And then we're not spinning. I'm not spinning. The Bible says what it says, and we're not spinning. And I want this to be true because it agrees with my senses, agrees
with my experience, it answers so many questions. And then I believe this is true. And from that point it was talking to Wayne, and that's come to scriptures. That's to find everyone, every single one that says anything about this topic. So we did. That was about two years I think us working on that, on the scriptures, which is part of the book. The list of scriptures was the main idea. The writing is supplemental to that, or that was the idea behind that. And so I still
haven't told many people. I told people here and there. Of course I told Wayne right away, and there were other people that I told here and there, and eventually told pretty much almost everybody that meant anything to me, including my dad, including those who are hostile towards it, including even eventually my own kids, and which is many years later, and they're older now. And when I said that I started believing this twenty seventeen. It couldn't believe me, but it was it was a yeah, it was a
it was a long process. So I have sympathy for the process. What I don't what I don't like to see is open hostility or complete indifference. But everyone's in their own journey, you know. And I told someone I think seven years ago, and he was curious but a bit incredulous as to he was the why does it matter guy, there's the why does it matter? Guy, and there's you know, we could personify all different responses, and he has come to the guy who asks me every
few months, hey what about this? Hey what about that? Over seven years ago, he's gone from why does it matter at all? To what about this? What about that? And almost committing. So that's how it goes, and it's we didn't ask for this, note of us asked for this, but we're super glad at the end of the day.
Yeah, no matter how hard the struggle, you know, I'm thankful that, you know, I've been given the grace to see these things, and I'm so glad you brought up trying to put a time limit on these things, whether it's you know, we call it spiritual formation, and you simply can't put a time limit on these things. Everybody's different, so the the evolving of subjects, it takes different amount
of time for different people. I wanted to address your book, which is called A Level Plane, an Introduction to Biblical Cosmology, which you released about four years ago. I know we're starting a little backwards here, but I want to point out in your kind of shypnopsis, right the last sentence of your little shypnopsis says warning, what you read could cause you trouble and make your life harder, but the truth is worth it. And I think it's right that that is so true on so many levels.
I forget does that occur at the beginning or in the I forget where that where that statement was made.
That was the very end of your hypnopsis on the Amazon page.
The very last, right, right, you know it's true, And sometimes I feel bad even telling people yeah, for that reason. And I was just talking to a brother though, just a few months ago, just a couple of months ago, and when twenty twenty came around, and when, as they say, COVID hit, I should say, when the agenda flowered, flourished, when everything came to light, Well, as soon as that
happened because of this, I was ready. And there were some brothers, some YouTubers and people Wayne's not going to like me saying YouTubers, some Internet personalities who had helped me see immediately like there was no delay when it came to COVID. I immediately knew basically from day one what it was because some had already said this was coming. And as soon as it had there was something wrong. There was something wrong right away. Maybe not day one,
maybe day two. Maybe I'm exaggerating whatever, but the point is, at that point I knew that I had to get this knowledge out there. I sent a mass email and offering dialogue on this topic, which got some response. So those people all all saw that mass email. And I also had a meeting in which I told about five guys who were there at the meeting. One of those guys went off and next thing you know, his son is doing a presentation on this topic in class. Beautiful,
beautiful thing, just in front of everybody. Beautiful. Now, I never even talked to this guy because we weren't very close. He was just there at the meeting until just this past year. This was like again five years ago. We went out for coffee and he's like, yeah, this changed my life completely. And I don't know that I I mean, he is, he's going in his own direction and I'm going in mind. But praise the Lord right that he had the courage to tell those who mattered to him.
And I don't know how many people he's told. It's a hard thing, but but I was. I was blessed. I was blessed by that. And maybe he's listening to this, you know, And I'm not going to mention any names, but that's it was a beautiful thing that that he did that, and that my simple Hey, this is what I found out. I didn't even say much, but he went on his own search, and maybe it's caused problems for him too, I don't know, probably not as many as most people. Whatever. We're all in a search and
rather a journey. Well some aren't on a search, let's face it. But yeah, I'm not sure where I was going. I don't remember what I was going though exactly, but but yeah, twenty twenty was a confirmation of the so why would they kind of thing?
Exactly right?
Would they?
Why why would they lie? And then that in twined why they also? How could so many people keep a secret? And then when you realize how compart mentalization really works, And you know, I worked with an entity as big as the US Army, I can tell you one side of the house had zero idea of what was going
on with the other side of the house. But for now, while we're on COVID, I think this would be a good time to spend a few minutes on this because, as I'm sure you've heard, many of the guests we've had on this podcast mentioned that COVID actually played a lot of in their awakening, the overplaying of the cards. Whether we can even argue with that was intentional or not,
but there was more than one agenda with that. Part of it is I think, I truly think Lucifer feeds off the fear, the humanity sphere, the depopulation agenda, and so on and so forth. But you wanted to discuss the theology of conspiracy and the mindset is Christians, Yeah, please go ahead.
I didn't want to, Like, I didn't want to get into quote. It should be pretty obvious what my viewpoint is. I've done a lot of thinking on that as well. But the thing is the biggest thing for me, and there's a whole chapter in our book there as well on this idea of conspiracy is something Christians are afraid of and don't want to talk about it and don't want
me to knowledge. But it's something deeply embedded in the whole of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, that the world system run handed over to the serpent, handed over to say buy Adam, which every Christian acknowledges. Satan is the God littlegy of this world Christian. You see it in scripture. Now he was handed over. Adam handed over his authority.
That is not widely understood in the Church. But when I the stream that I got saved and grew up in is widely acknowledged and taught on the concept of spiritual authority. That when Adam handed over the authority of this world, Satan became the god lilogy of this world, as Paul says, And it's Corinthians four and so way back in Genesis. And then we see the flowering of that in in the flood, and then and the Genesis six. Whatever people believe. Obviously the Nephilim, they were giants. Evil
came in through them. That much can't very well be disputed. The Tower of Babel was was a giant conspiracy of evil which God put a stop to. And then and then you have the you know Psalmn two, which sets out the program. Right, the kings of the earth take their stand, The rulers come together against the Lord and against his annointed. There's intent there. This is on an accident. This isn't people generally wanting in their own minds, they want what's best. In their own minds. They think they're
doing the right thing. But the thing is they are coming together. They are against the Lord, and that much of intent can't be denied. And then, of course you come to the Crucifixion of Jesus, in which Pilot and the rulers and the gentiles were all gathered together. In Acts they preached the sermon that they were all gathered together against the Lord to do. And I love that whatever the Lord predetermined before to be done. It actually
i'm quoting yeah here Acts four twenty seven. Indeed, Herod and Pontius Pilot met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this to conspire, to conspire, to conspire only says it once. I'm just against early servant Jesus, whom you anointed Psalm to Psalm to quoted right before that. This is the fulfillment of Psalm to. Oh, they did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
So that's the thing about the conspirators. They have no idea that they're inadvertently furthering God's purposes, which the devil can't win. Right, yep. Now, and then, of course the mark of the beast. I mean, how much more nu Christians need to acknowledge the conspiracy that is against the Lord and against his followers. They will hate you, They will hate you, they will hate you. How many more times does the Bible have to talk about this before
Christians are willing to not be squeamish about it? And then it's like, well, how could they, how could they? How could they keep it all hidden? Well? I found a really cool thing. It's very simple. The guards of the tomb. Right, get this a little bit in the book. Well, two guards, two gatekeepers, right, Two guards were placed at the two Then what happened was Act Matthew twenty eight twelve. When the chief priest had met with the elders. They devised a plan. Oh okay, that sounds like they went
into secret, devised a plan. They give the soldiers number one a large sum of money, telling them, you are to say, telling them what to say. Here's the money, here's what to say. How many politicians during COVID we saw again, just make a connection. They're reading a script. You are to say, his disciples came the night and stole while we were while we were asleep. If the support gets to the government. Number two, we will satisfy and keep you out of trouble. Number one, here's some money.
Number two, you're not in trouble. So basically, a bribe and a threat. In other words, if you don't take this, you are in trouble. A bribe and a threat. That's all you need by two people. And then this report was widely circulated among the Jews. In other words, everyone believed it. You only needed two people, and you know, a group at the top, and the Bible clearly indicates there that the jew Jewish leaders were the group at the top. So that's all you need. Do we have
a group at the top? Well, you'd be pretty naive not to think, so, what is the G seven that just happened? That's the group at the top.
That's right, You.
Think that, you think they're being pretty straightforward about everything. Come on, come on, just.
Can we be Yeah, I just had the Builderberg meeting too.
I mean, here's a side thought, Like sometimes I ask people, whatever happened to the anti globalist left? It disappeared off the face of the earth in twenty twenty because they realized that the corporations were on their side, and so they decided to support the corporations. But the thing is that, you know, the corporations will turn on them as well. But the point is, you know the days of you know, the leftists who said, who are against these corporate entities
who did not have her best interests of mind? Well, yeah, they were right, but they had a skewed worldview because they denied God. They got deceived and then they were offered money and they capitulated to the money. So it doesn't take much. It just takes money and threats and there you go. Yeah, and so and so this. Oh those astronauts they were Christians, were they? Well? They lie? They lie? Right? Well, what is the Bible say that every man that God be true in every man a liar?
Every man is capable of lying. Absolutely, And they sure justified to themselves. I'm doing it for a good reason, doing it for whatever they say to themselves. I don't know. I don't know how they sleep at night, but they do absolutely, some of them not much, but you can tell. But and so that's that's the part. That's chapter two of the book. Chapter one is you know, does truth matter?
I think we're we're on the same page there. Yeah, absolutely, But I but I do want to get into some of those other things in the scripture on again, why is this important and it's more than the shape of the earth.
Yeah, that's just the tip of the iceberg, and I wanted to touch on before we moved on to that. It is truly amazing if you look back to the liberals of the sixties and seventies, how they were anti corporation, they were anti war, some.
Stances I still hold on to.
But the average liberal today, you look at Jimmy Dore and people like him are just like, what is happening right that they are very much into this Marxist agenda. I said on my other podcast last night, I took my daughter to the little Comic con in Dover, Delaware on Saturday, and they had the No King March right five hundred feet from us, and they all marched past and yell did us.
They were all in there. I would say ninety percent of them. We're in their.
Sixties early seventies. Just you know, it's just so weird to see that shift. Even the punk rock groups like Green Day and how they have in the nineties and the you know eighties and nineties they were anti corporation, and now they'll say anything or back anything for a check.
It's just crazy.
Yeah, yeah, no it's true.
But yeah, back to the the idea is that, yeah, once we get out of the way the squeamishness about conspiracy and we actually look in the.
Bible, then we have to tend with the all metaphor people, because the Scripture says what it says, right, and so there are Yeah, there's so many, so many angles to look at in terms of how do we how do we coming how do we bring truth into the situation right? One thing that's really stood out to me initially and continues to do so, which is chapter three the book
as God's position and Heaven's actual location. We sing all these songs even in church about God being above, and yet I remember, I remember the idea that I remember thinking, well, okay, God is above, like love poured down on us, pour down on us. I remember being annoyed at those lyrics because I'm like, well, it's not coming down. God isn't up there. So and yet we think of him as up there, quote unquote, think of him as up there because that's what the Bible says. Well, that's what we're
meant to think. So, as I said in the book, the question of dealing is where is God? Many Christians idea of God's location is fuzzy and vague. What might be called a quote dimensional view.
Yes, we hear that a lot.
We hear that a lot, the acknowledgment of heaven as a real place. But in quote another dimension that some more parallels this one, that could influence it too. Angels come in and out of portals. It's the spirit world. And so you have many appeal to fictional stories such as Chronicles of Narnia, which is great. I love the Chroniclescenaria. But you can't quit with bablical truth or two theories of quantum physics, which which I don't think is real
or true. We need to look at a scriptural investigation where is heaven? So I've got example Joshua two eleven. He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath, and in earth beneath. Notice heaven above, heaven is above us. Scription number two is not God high in the heavens? See the highest stars, how lofty they are? Job twenty two twelve. And then Psalm thirty three thirteen. The Lord looks down from heaven, he sees all the children of men.
That is just a smattering of dozens and dozens and dozens of scriptures showing or implying that God is above, including very importantly, and I would say most critically, in the life, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus Christ, therefore making it very borderline salvational. If not salvational, then at the very least christological, to use the theological term. It is christological, it is new menthology. Where does the spirit come from?
Where did Jesus go? Right? You have to answer that question. He didn't deceive us into thinking he was going up in the ascension, and so what happened?
Then?
Well, he went up in the clouds and they went through a portal, a portal in the clouds. Where is that in the scripture? Or unless he went through space, But that's impossible for a man in according to the concept of space. Well, he's God, he can do anything. Then you have the weekend. He can do anything. People, God can do anything. Well, actually there are things that God can't do. In fact, he can't lie. And God said what he said in scripture and he didn't lie,
so he can't. Sorry, he can't do that. It says Jesus passed through the heavens Hebrews four fourteen. So if you think the heavens is space, then he must pass through space. Except they run with the problem where does space end? Then? So he had to go through portal sometime? And where does it say that? So you run into all sorts of problems trying to make the ball ere fit. It's not just a matter of the shape of the earth. That's the least of their problems. The boast of their
problem is what do you do with Jesus? Where's he?
Now?
Says he's in heaven? Where is heaven? See Jesus in a physical body. He didn't become something. He received a body. Now some people say, well it wasn't physical. Okay, well now we're just playing with words. Because she's to touch me. The spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. And he kept that body when he went up. Now he apparently in a revelation, his appearance is altered because now he has white hair, but he still is in a body, and he's coming back in
a body. So where is that body? It's kind of like him at the tube disappearing right. Where is the body of Jesus. Well, to us, the scripture is clear. People even conflate Jesus in the spirit, and so it's a theological problem. They say, Christ, you know Jesus is
in my heart. Well, yes, if you understand that Jesus shares a full, fully shares divine nature with the Holy Spirit, That the Spirit is in my heart, that he sent the Spirit from heaven, that he actually is in heaven, that we're seated in heavily places with him, is a great mystery. But if you understand it spiritually, then it's no problem because we believe, because we believe by faith,
that this is the case. And then you can say, okay, fine, I'll take it as if you want Jesus in me in that sense, but only in that sense, because his physical body certainly isn't in mind, and he sent the Spirit separate or distinct from himself, three distinct persons. If you're trinitarian, if you're not, well, that's almost separate discussion. But I believe that there's a profound truth to be had in knowing these things. So the ascension is critical.
The pouring out down of the Holy Spirit came down, so all of these things become super critical and have These are the things that have blessed me in my life the most.
Yeah, you've made so many great points, and I think this is a great time to mention hermeneutics that you know, you're talking about core interpretations of the Bible and not loose interpretations of the Bible. Now when it's convenient for the person, right when it I guess when it challenges their beliefs, such as everything we're talking about tonight, that
they will say, well, that's figurative not literal. Well, you better go back and retake that hermaeutics class, because Joshua to eleven, the Lord your God has got in heaven above and earth below. If it wasn't important, he wouldn't have included the words above and below. Every word is put in the Bible for a reason.
Yeah, And there's no hint of metaphor in these scriptures, not at all. For example, in my discussion of that job verse that the metaphorical language or phenomenological They love to use that word phenomenological language. It means the way it appears to us. Well, yeah, the way it appears to us is the way it actually is. Because this is a chapter. I would actually like to add a book, but I haven't. Is actually it's amazing that we would have to do this, But we've gotten to the point
where you have to write. I feel like I have to write up a doctrine on the reliability of the physical senses. Christians are not taking leave of our senses. They're perfectly reliable. What I see is what's there. Let's cut to the point here. If you're seeing things that aren't there, which I did, and my friend was on acid, he put his head through a wall because we watched Pink Floyd's the Wall and he saw things that weren't there.
We had to take him to the hospital. So if your five senses aren't reliable either you have a physical impairment. In other words, maybe you're blind and can't see, maybe you're deaf and can't hear. Jesus heals those things, but that impairs the physical senses. Or all your physical senses are okay and you're seeing things that literally aren't there, that is a delusion. Well God will send them strong delusion. But you're delusional. If your five senses work fine, but
that they aren't reliable. And so somebody will say, well, what about the spiritual? Well, yeah, God can show us things in the spirit that are there, but he's not going to contradict the physical senses that are there. It will supersede or take precedence, and it will always agree with scripture. Whatever he shows us in the spirit, what has to agree scripture. We've known that in the charismatic
section of the church. That is any solid teaching is that if you think you have a vision and it doesn't agree with proper interpretationious scripture, I'm sorry you didn't have that vision. You didn't. So the spirit and the Word are in full agreement. In our physical senses are there to help us. Why did Jesuit God say in the scripture, out of the mouth two or three witnesses, let every word be established. Why did the resurrection of
Christ require witnesses to see him physically? Why did Jesus say, touch me if the sense of touch was unreliable, But why did he show them that he was going up in the clouds If what they saw was not what it was, if what they saw was not accurate. He wanted to show them beyond any doubt that what their eyes saw. Well, first John, I mean what our eyes have seen. He starts his epistle this way, right, it agrees with reality, and we see that we're not spinning.
Nobody can nobody can verify spinning. And we're not to take leave of our senses, not for the sake of the world, not for the sake of becoming you know, acceptable to men. First John, that which was from the beginning, which we've heard, which we have seen with their eyes, which we have looked on, and our hands have touched the three senses right there, and they're all reliable proclaim concerning the word of life, that life appeared. We've seen it.
Have you seen the earth spinning? No? The scripture say it is no. So what's the deal. Well, you know that's how it goes. That people have been lied to and back to the patient's thing. But we just got to keep hammering away at this.
You've made some excellent points and some verses that have not been mentioned on this podcast before. And again you want to talk about conspiracy. I mean, you think about the power of little g we'll call them little g right to make you, not to make you, to deceive you into believing that we're on a spinning ball, that it's spinning one thousand miles per hour, hurtling through space at whatever sixty seven thousand miles per hour, and we're on a tilt to axis and all this other stuff,
but we don't trust our own senses. And again, I'll tell people, if you grew up in an island, remote island, by yourself for twenty years, and somebody just rolled up on a boat and asked you if you thought we were on a spinning ball or a level plane, you're going to say a level plane. It's just that that's how deep this psychological operation goes. And then you know, it goes full circle to why the lie. I've gotten
hundreds of emails that. And again I got an email today from a listener and she sent just an incredible email detailing her journey and she said this may not be a salvation issue for people who are already saved, but she said, for me, it literally brought me to Christ. So how is it not a salvation issue? The truth shall set you free, and this is truth, and this is something that we have to search for the truth,
no matter how trivial. And again, if you if you try to have this conversation with somebody at ill sixteen at Walmart, They're going to think you're a lunatic. But I've gotten hundreds of emails over the last two and a half years with their stories of how the truth has helped them realize that there is a creator which will eventually led them to Christ.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's a beautiful thing.
Really, And.
Boy, I've heard those testimonies where I've read Dean Odle's book and the testimonies in there, and there's there's a brother who's steadfast in sharing this truth, even even just last week, in great opposition, you know. But and that is what it takes. And so the thing is, you know, back to the idea of metaphor, Well, look, I know what metaphor is. We all know what metaphor is. But the Bible does not talk about God being above as
a metaphor. You know. He says Job says in the Book of Job Job twenty two twelve, he says, is not God high in the heavens? Well see the highest stars. So he's comparing God to the height of the stars. Well, there's an analogy there, but it relies on the fact that the stars are up there, God is up there. It's a rhetorical question. That's the only literary device in there. I know my literary devices. Let teach English. I know literary device. So so we can't. You can't pull the
metaphorical wool over someone's eyes because it's not metaphorical. That would be confusing. The rhetorical language is not got high in the heavens. Well, if he wasn't, if it was all metaphorical, that would be confusing. And so the Bible doesn't seek to confuse. The Bible doesn't see the Bible is simple. You know, there's that scripture. The devil has deceived us from the simplicity of the Gospel. And that's another thing that I love. Later on we talked about
jesus ascension. I just want to read a couple of things there. So Acts one nine to eleven. He was taken up but before their very eyes, and a cloud hit him from their sight, so he's hidden from their sight. But then this same Jesus, who has been taken up from you, up from you, up into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go
into heaven. So the second coming is at stake. This is why Christians, I believe, are uncomfortable with revelation, uncomfortable with the Second Coming, because where is he coming back from? Why through the clouds? Why in the air?
And brother, if I could interject for one second, I just want to add this now. I truly believe this is one of the reasons they started the science fiction movie push in the nineteen fifties. Going back to what you said about twenty minutes ago with dimensions.
The dimensions, Yeah, again, why go up? If heaven is just a dimension? Why would God deceive us over and over again by referring to Heaven as above if it's not above? And if the human authors were you know, quote mistaken due to primitive scientific knowledge, that's another one. That's another sacred cow that we need slaughter. How can we accept the word of God as truth in every way? So what's they're mistaken due to their primitive scientific knowledge?
Then what about the rest of Genesis one? What about what about all the creationists? Well they're the creation you know, the mainstream creation movement, very hostile to this truth, even though we agree completely on every other point. And so it's it's just very interesting. I quoted a certain brother who wrote a book and he actually wrote about called where is Jesus Now? But he gets wrong, and he says this. He tries, he tries his best, so he's like,
he says this that. So he says, when people used to believe he admits that. He says, when people used to believe that the earth was flat, they had an easier time with the ascension. He says, quote, it must have been easier to believe in the ascension when people thought the earth was flat, Heaven was up above and Hell was down below. Anyone going from Earth to Heaven would go straight into the sky. Jeshi says that. But
then this is where Jesus now. Such questions may not trouble simple Christians who don't think much about their faith. But this attitude is inadequate when coming to the Gospel, commending the Gospel to others in this modern age. But then he ends with phenomenal length, which how things appear on earth not intended to be scientific. They keep saying
the Bible isn't a scientific textbook, blah blah blah. Right, What they fail to notice, it's very short sighted, is they love their paradigm of they love their language, they love their talking points of the Bible isn't a scientific textbook. But where does that end logically? What you get to choose what to keep and what to throw out. You get to cherry pick what to believe literally and what not to based on what literary analysis. No, because that's
not sound in their point of view. They're not doing sound literary analysis. They're not doing sound ex Jesus, Yeah, the raki of the firmament in Genesis what six it means? What it means. But no, that's primitive that they didn't have scientific knowledge. So they throw ex Jesus out the window. Yep, it's through literary analysis out the window, and they cherry pick what they want. But again, you have to have patience with the people themselves.
Because we were all there at one time.
That's what they're taught, even in the church, especially.
In and what you just mentioned. Imagine being so pompous is to believe that today that you're actually smarter than a person who received the divine word from God. Like that's what we're if you really break it down right to its finest atom. When you talk like that, when people just eschew Bible verses that you're literally saying that I have more wisdom than the person who received the divine word of God.
That's literally what they're saying. Yeah, and it's true. Again, we don't want to paint people into corner.
Correct. You have to be careful how you learn it.
I've been there, I've done that. It doesn't work either with the Gospel or with any truth that we can't even though it's true. And it's okay when we're fellowshipping here with other believers, we believe the same thing. To be amazed at the levels of deception. But when talking to others, But then again, when you encounter the hostility, there's not much you can do. You can just say I love you, brother, but we'll have to agree, disagree,
let me know when you have any questions. So yeah, it's just there's no easy answer what to do when people come with those things. But we have to be patient and say, look, do you see any metaphor here? Or But they even get triggered, like even one person, I'm like, look a look at the water, look at the sky, and they got triggered by that the water is level. We haven't detected spinning and the water is level.
Water is what do you build a house with? You got a level, it got little little water in there, right, I mean I don't know anything about building, but I know that right. So again the earth has foundations. Well, it's metaphorical, metaphoricum metholk. Wait a minute, there's no detection of metaphor in the passage that we're talking about. We have to go to the context. And if the earth actually has foundations, the pillars of the Lord h So it says this one's ripture talking about well found it
just means started. Okay, founded, me started because of the foundation. Originally two meanings are related. But say Isaiah forty eight thirteen, mine hand, also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens. Okay, sounds like okay, his hand. So a little bit of anthropological language is hand. But that's common in Scriptured. We accept that God has a hand because actually he has more of a hand than we do. We're made in his image,
So it's not metaphorical exactly. Then hath laid the foundation, laid the foundation, so he's talking about the physical earth, of physical heavens or the actual heavens if you will. The firmament founding the school is not the same laying the foundation for the school building. The Hebrew word for lay the foundation is the verbiya sad and and so you know Hebrew thought means it can mean the same thing,
physical or spiritual, and so the foundation. But the point that I'm trying to get to is, hey, if we're talking about the physical earth, which he was, But if a spinning ball doesn't have a foundation, you can't say that it does. There is nothing there, right, And then you've got pillars, and he's set the earth the world upon them for Samuel two eight and so and so it goes that these details are simply ignored, but it was a revelation to see them. So what are the pillars?
Well they will say, oh, it's just metaphors, just metaphors, just metaphor, But they can't explain the literary and exegetical reason why it has to be metaphor, right, it just has quote has to be because the model that were given by the ungodly has to hold up in the church. Well, why why does the church have to prop this thing up? Because they're afraid that the church will lose its credibility
with the world. They actually use the word witness. They say it's a bad witness to the world because you lost your credibility. You look, you look stupid to the world. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. The Bible never promised that Christians would be credible to the world.
We're told that we're going to be persecuted.
Yeah, I mean, they lost by our love, but it will love them. But but they're not going to agree with us. Don't you know that the world laughs at you for not believing evolution. Don't you know the world laughs at you for believing the literal flood. Don't you know the world is confused and doesn't understand the resurrection of Christ, and and and hates Christian worlds and agrees with abortion with these same people. Look, we've already we've
already lost credibility in that sense with the world. All we've got left is love. That's what the world actually people want to see is us loving each other and and and sharing the Gospel with them, you know. And and many people in the world would be like, thank you for telling me the truth about the earth. Never heard that before you know, they're not going to be like, hey, I listened to you until now. I don't want anything to do with that stuff. I haven't had a lot
of that. There will be intrigued, but we know you have to be judicious, of course in sharing this truth.
You do, but the truth is the truth, and everything else may fall by the wayside. And I mentioned in an interview this morning that if you're too comfortable in life, maybe you're not spreading the truth enough, right, because we are told and not just when it comes to sharing the gospel. God tells us straight up front. You know we're charged to share the gospel and you will be persecuted.
But all truth goes along with that, just like every example that you just gave, right, I've been in churches before that support the Big Bang theory and just just write it off as that's just like you mentioned earlier God, if God's all encompassing and he.
He just did it that way.
And again that gets into man, if you really are dictating the Bible how you want to believe in a secular way, Matt, you've lost the battle. Words are important, Every word is important, and that's why. And again I'm
not telling anybody else what to do. That's why I've stuck with the King James vis the King James Bible, because just from translating from Hebrew to Hebrew and Greek to English, I can guarantee you what's already lost some meanings, but still it is still God's divine wisdom and where to adhere to it. And we've been given enough warnings
in there. We can't pick and choose. And that's why, Hinald, that's such a big reason why so many people are leaving organized churches, because they've gone by the wayside and have.
Just started deciding, you know.
What people think, they're teaching what people think, and secular things have infiltrated the church, and that's not what salvation is about.
It just isn't.
And all of these words, for instance, let me before we get too far, you mentioned job I think it was Job twenty two. You mentioned verse twelve, But if you actually read eleven to thirteen, listen or darkness that thou can't see, and abundance of waters cover thee is not guide in the height of heaven, and behold the height of the stars.
How high they are?
And thou sayest, how does God know he can judge through the dark clouds. So again, all of these things, whether it's we're on foundation, the will doesn't move Joshua ten thirteen. But again, if you're the one that brings us up, you're the delusional one, and that is the
battle we're up against. However, if you want to talk about hope, I remember when I first started this podcast two and a half years ago, and then fast forward two and a half years to today, I can tell you that at least the topic of having a conversation about flat Earth is a little bit easier as it was a couple of years ago.
So we are making progress.
Like I think I mentioned to you before we hit the record button, just by talking about it, trying to make it a normal topic of conversation is making headway.
Yeah, I really, I really believe so. And that that's you got to play the long game. The devil took years, decades, centuries.
They played a long game.
So do we have the devil plays the long game and he's pretty good at it, and he's done it. He's you got to give him credit. You've got to give your enemy some credit. Is that he built this thing up and line upon line and he got things in place, and when and when the truth came to close for him, he doubled down and brought Nassa and pulled off the deception of the century with the moon landing,
and it just got people's imagination with that. You know, it's funny like every it seems like every Christian movie this is a bit of a side note, has to have something about the moon landing or or about about this topic in it, even even that one about the Jesus Movement of the seventies. Great movie, you know, just a great, really encouraging, well told story everything. But then you know, there's this part where they're all watching the moon landing on TV and they make it spiritual and
they conflate it with the revival that's happening, and I'm amazed. Like, you know, this is obviously a side topic. But my friend Wayne shared about his unfortunately departed but saved dad, you know, telling him or questioning the moon ending and that making an impression on him. I never I never had anything like that, but I guess I was prone to maybe question things. I don't know why, I don't know how it just happened, and but I guess what
I'm saying, is that the devil playing the long game. Well, he's still doing so, but I also believe the Lord has allowed this to be revealed, and the Lord the devil can't do more than it's on a worldwide scale. Note I don't say global anymore unless I'm talking about some talk about globalists, which it perfectly applies, because the globalist are global. They believe in the globe, right, I say worldwide instead, So this applies on the worldwide scale.
That and so the devil has to can't do more on the worldwide scale, then God strictly gives him permission to do. I believe that that's inferred in scripture and from other passages, that the time has come for this truth to be revealed. And so the devil's doing whatever he can. And Christians, high profile Christians, I believe, you know, it just makes sense that they would be made an offer, you know, as it were, an offer they can't refuse.
And whatever it is, whether it's money, whether it's threats, threats to expose maybe some high profile leaders, as we know Christian leaders are living in sin and don't want to be exposed. Whatever dirt the devil has on these people or or it's just plain old deception, right, but well meaning, well meaning and all the rest of it. But we have a beautiful truth. And the truth, as you said, does make us free. And it's the world is dark, but God is going to make a way
for us in it. And and just one step at a time.
Here, right, Yeah, And that blackmail basically what you meant that, I mean, that's what they do with politicians as well. That's I do believe that a majority of the politicians go in meaning to change the world. But I think the devil and those that work for him, they're able to find that individual sweet tooth and they're able to corrupt them and get them to unfortunately not look out for the people who vote for them. When you talked
about the long Game, I recalled Edward Burnees. And if you go back through history and again, this is the guy whose great nephew runs Netflix. Whether it was the Torches a Freedom, you know, getting women's smokers, he did the same thing for Lucky Strike. But he was also a big part of the fluoridation campaign in the United States, convincing Americans that it was safe to drink fluoride, which is again toxic waste from aluminum and as well as
pushing the propaganda a pro war propaganda. Now again, I'm not going to sit here and pretend what I know what was in Edward Brene's heart. From everything I've read, he was not. He was Jewish, but he didn't practice Judaism, according to everything I've read, and I'm not here to tell you. Only God knows where he is right now. However, you see people like this throughout history who carry out these tools of deceit under the guise of good. And that's what I tell people all the time when we
have this type of conversation. Evil doesn't come as I'm evil, right, like the devil on Saturday Night Live with the pencil thin mustache and the trident and the long tail. The Bible says that he was beautiful, right, and that's.
What he does. He deceives and he perverts, and.
The long game is what they play now. Granted, when we say playing the long game on our side, nobody knows if we're guaranteed tomorrow. I heard a great sermon a couple of weeks ago. There's one thousand, four hundred and forty seconds in every day. What are you doing with each of them? Right, what are you doing to change your life? What are you doing to change people's lives? What are you doing to leave the earth, this biblical
flat earth in better shape than you received it? And it was very sobering to the fact that even though we feel like we may be doing what we can as far as worshiping the Lord and sharing the Gospel and other truths that may lead to it, but even in that case, are we doing enough like you? Because it is I think what some people don't get. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong. Being a follower of a Christ
is many things, but it is also a responsibility. We're told to be fishers of men, not just to put our feet up and say I've secured heaven.
Yeah. Yeah, we have to take more ground. And you know, we have a lot in common with We have everything in common with every believer, a true believer, right, Trusting in Jesus is more important than whatever people believe about
the shape of the earth. But the false dichotomy is just that it's false, and so either or well, Okay, being saved is the most critical issue, But that doesn't mean we stop there, because everything is Salvation is a process and The second Thessonian says is that the love of the truth will save us, because there are those in the end who don't receive this love of the truth and they aren't saved, and so we have to we have to consider that same time, trying to, like
you said, normalize this in the church, trying to make a way for things to be easier for the next generation to have these conversations and to open the way for this truth. If we have a next generation, right, we have to live that way. We have to play a long game as if, as if this isn't the end, because we don't know when the second coming will be. But yeah, of course, of course there are salvation, there
are so called essentials. I kind of accept that idea, but I also kind of believe it's a cop out two if people just want the status quo. If you look back at the people we admire in church history, it was never the people who accepted the status quo, you know, the reformers. The ninety five THESS would never happened if Martin Luther had accepted the status quo amen of the Catholic Church. And I'm sure everybody and their dog, everybody in his dog because I don't use plural there
for singular. But anyway, that's another thing. Everybody and his dog, his art, her dog was telling him just to accept it, just to be okay, not to be so angry all the time, not to be so why do you have to be like this all the time. Why do you have to be obsessed with the church and its problems? Why can't you just accept it and work within it. I'm sure you heard all of that stuff, Like in a way we hear, okay, well, why are you negative?
You should be happy, You should be happier, right, But I am happy in Christ and and you know, we just want things to be better than they are. And it's not okay to me that there is confusion and vagueness fuzziness about where Heaven is when the scripture is plain and and I just so we wrote the book and I say what I can when I can, and I will never lie you. I don't know. I'm half tempted, and I've done street preaching. I'm half tempted to do
to preach this, you know, from the housetops. But I'm not erring position maybe to do that at this point. But but the but we have to. We have to do what we can.
Yeah, that's it is like I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, just just where Jesus, where is Heaven. Let's let's get to that point. Yeah, if you can't, if you don't like the discussion over the shape of the earth. But see, it all just leads to the same thing though, because if Jesus ascended into heaven and he's there now, well that's unfortunately for the other worldview, that's it's kind of impossible for them to believe that unless he went into another dimension. They have to add things to the scripture.
So so to me that that that's of utmost importance. And of course there is like the evidence of my senses. Of course, there is water is level. Of course, there's all these evidences there. There are the high zoom lens tests that have been done that are basically in controvertible evidence. There is the evidence of NASA having ungodly foundations of the Nazis that they that they brought over well found.
Jack and Parsons and el Ron Hubbard were an all Crowley, they were all involved with the founding of NASA.
So so there's all of that, right, Yeah, there's all the there is there the flight patterns that don't make sense. There are the suspicious ah Antarctic activities. There is there are the old publications of popular science that talk about, you know, the Earth being observable to be a flat discment documents that were released ah that of of the of the the scientists themselves. Now you know, I can
say all that stuff, but then what it's not. It's sometimes not even worth saying unless I can produce it. And even then I think cutting right to the point. For the Christian for us, that's all just window dressing in a way, because it's important, but it's what about the Bible? What does the Bible actually say that should be for us? That's the truth. And that's the thing that we are passionate about is that, well the truth
should be enough. And one of the last chapters in the book is titled is the Scripture enough?
And and so.
What we said is, well, we should have never had to write this book at all, and none of these people who believe this should have ever had to write any of these books. We hope that critics are convinced by scripture. However, we also know that there is thorough and completing doctrination that we have also received on the
Baller model. But and so the objection is, you can't just say the Bible says so, like the Christian will say this, you can't just say the Bible says so, even after you've done in your Exejesus, even after you've found the scriptures. Don't you realize how ignorant, backward and irrelevant you're going to sound. What about the real scientists. We're going to school you on the facts, put you your place, leave without answers, and finally discredit not only you,
but your faith and the Bible itself. Well, yeah, they'll school me on their answers, but I'll school them on the scriptures. So you can take your pick. And so we don't deny it in a very real way, we don't care what they think or say, because we really do accept our ancient scriptures in opposition to mainstream so called science. We're not claiming greater intelligence or knowledge, but we are claiming knowledge of the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.
And of course there is actual scientific evidence, but that comes after. And it's very much I believe for the Christian secondary and a distant secondary to the scriptures, right so I think we've got off track somewhere as Christians on this point of putting what scientists said and believing their credentials. I mean, we're not even doing real science. It's not even observable, it's testable because we don't observe spinning, and nobody can test the spinning. Nobody can observe it
or test it. It's all based on their the mathematical calculations that they've jigged and made work mathematically. But anyone can make mathematical calculations work and then say they say certain things. That doesn't make it science. Yeah, but even that, even real science, it should be should agree with scripture, and it does because the Bible is true. And someone will say, well, the Bible doesn't talk about whatever microbes. Yeah, but it doesn't say anything against the microbes. I mean,
it doesn't have to mention something. Correct, the thing doesn't contradict the Bible. It doesn't mention you know, a lot of things. So yeah, okay, it's not a scientific textbook. Well thank god, because those textbooks are dry and somewhat inaccurate. But to say the point is, it doesn't contradict and so nothing can contradict the scriptures and still be true.
Amen.
As Christians, we have to believe that, otherwise we are very slippery ground on everything, including salvation, including the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, and ascension the second coming of Christ.
And I wanted to ask you, we're down to about our last ten minutes. I wanted to ask you because you had mentioned you said, at some point the narrative, the narrative shifted. Do you think have you taken to time to research that? Do you think it was around that early fifteen hundred timeframe when Coperna or not Copernicus, Martin Luther came out, did the ninety five THECS and broke away and that's when Copernicus kind of started to take charge.
Or do you think it was more than just that?
I think that was a big, a big point. I think the devil again, every time God pours out his spirit, the devil doubles down. But Martin Luther himself had some choice words for Copernicus. Yes, he called him a heretic, he said, he called him a fool who would quote turned the whole science of astronomy upside down, And he cited Joshua commanding the sun to stand still, and so he took that literally. Now, not everything, again, Martin Luther
is subserving to the Bible. Not everything he said is correct, But we give him credit for our entire reformation. And I think anyone who calls himself a Christian and evangelical is from his heritage and should should hear what he asked to say as someone who was a contemporary and someone who was on the prophetic edge, at least at the prime of his life, he was on the right side of history and the right side of the scriptures. And he is the one who said, let scripture convict me.
And he was right about the scriptures. And so you you know, you can say what you want else. He is a man. He has flaws, but and we all have flaws. That doesn't mean we're always wrong. He knew that something. He knew something about Copernicus, And yeah, I think that was a big, big time, you know.
And and.
Oh man, that whole Enlightenment again, the so called Enlightenment was not a time of godly spiritual revelation, except that in the church there were revivals happening during that time. Those revivals paralleled and did not agree with the spirit of the age of Enlightenment, and so and so, George Whitfield and Jonathan Edwards. I don't know what their views were, but the thing is they brought these revivals. Yeah, they
did well. At the same time, these views are being advanced, and so and so the spirit of God gets poured out in the early nineteen hundreds. Well, there was a revival also of zetetic astronomy in the early nineteen hundreds.
Some great books written during those days. But then World War One happened and turned the world's attention on that, and the agendas that followed led to first of all, the League of Nations and World War two, Hitler, the United Nations, the creation of NASA and etc. The Nazis, Yeah,
the Nazis coming over to America promoting eugenics. The eugenics came from the Nazis, which includes abortion in euthanasia which we see flowering in Canada today, the destruction of humanity in terms of eugenics, and so it all comes from that same place. And we see all that has happened. We also see God increasing revelation. The last days of knowledge will increase. I believe we're in those days, and I'm blessed to have this knowledge of the earth, and it took me a while in life to get to it.
But it just proves that we can do nothing on our own strength. We need the grace of God. We need the revelation of the Spirit of God. Otherwise we will all be deceived and lie and live in darkness.
Agreed.
And you said everything just so poetically, and especially when you mentioned that that early movement in the I should say the movement in the early nineteen hundreds, and then oh, by the way, world were World War One started. I just mentioned a few weeks ago you had mentioned Jonathan Edwards, who was part of the first Great Awakening of the seventeen fifties, that there was a great spiritual movement that
took place here in the colonies. And I can't explain it in four minutes, but you know, all of most of the founding fathers were Freemasons, and many of the colonists did not want a federal government. It's just coincidence to me, how you know, the war overshadowed this great awakening in the United States. And I think I'm not a person who worries, and I'm not trying to be a as they say, a fear porn purveyor. But you know, since COVID, there has been a great awakening in the
United States. That one event caused so many people to wake up. So do they create a bigger event to foreshadow this awakening and kind of hit the reset button again? Right, That's something I always think, I wonder, I don't always think about.
I don't lose sleep over it.
But if you look throughout history, they have an interesting way of trying to quell these kind of awakenings.
Yeah, it's really interesting. It's really interesting history. I love history, and I love looking at things from the Christian point of view, which I believe is Christian worldview, which is a biblical worldview, which include, yes, the end does have a negative element with the mark of the Beast coming in, and that is something to take very seriously. Yeah, and I believe we were treated to a precursor in terms of what was rolled out during COVID, all the things
that were rolled out. I'm glad that that wasn't the no Mark. It was not. I'm glad for those who took it that it wasn't the mark. There has been much suffering as a result of that and most people feel like they can't even talk about their suffering. That's the worst part because they'll be accused of causing division and so really ingenious by the devil, but very diabolically. But we also see that. Hey, the end of the
book is we win. Christ returns on the white horse, you know, he comes back through heaven and takes us. We rise up. This is the resurrection, and we rule and reign with him for a thousand years on the new heaven. Sorry, in the millennial millennium, followed by the creation of a new heavens and Earth. We're barely getting started here with what's good. So the bad is extremely temporary, and the great plan of God in the Resurrection, the bodily resurrection, is the hope of the Christian. It's not
that we would die and go to heaven. That's temporary as well. Heaven will come to earth and we will reign with him first for one thousand years, then forever and ever with glorified physical body, just like Jesus has now in his physical body that he is in heaven with just above us. When I look above and I see the stars, when I look above and I feel the sun, and I know that it's not ninety three
million miles away. I'm blessed, and I know that it's not you know, thousands of times bigger than the Earth. I'm blessed. And when I know that we're not spinning, I'm blessed, and want I know that we're not a tiny, insignificant speck in the galaxies of the multiverse. I'm blessed when I know that we're in an enclosed system, and God is above us, not that far away, as the scripture says, he is not far from any one of us.
Paul said in his message to I forget who the Athenians I think, But I'm blessed to know all of that, and to when things get hard on the earth and I look up, lift up your heads. Your redemption draweth nigh. I lift my eyes up to the Lord, and I raise up my hands in the church. And I know why I'm raising them up right, because that's where God, the direction of God. I know why trees grow the direction they grow, and their limbs seem to be praising God,
lifting upwards. But let us lift up our hands, let us lift up our eyes in the church, and let us know why we're doing it. That's that's the intellectual blessing along with the spiritual blessing. Let's think about God's love being above and know that it's real and not metaphorical. And and let us not sing when the worship song mentions galaxies as many do. Unfortunately, like I'm not blessed. I never was blessed by looking up and thinking how
vast the so called universe was. I was confused, if I'm being honest, and Christians are often not honest, but I was confused. You know. Their narrative is you're supposed to look up and contemplate the vastness of the universe and how much God loves us. Well, no, that never happened for me, and I don't see how it could happen. That's not a sign of love. It's a sign of confusion. What God contradicted his word And you're supposed to be
blessed by that. So anyway, but I am blessed to think to think on God, and I you know, I'm let's see where this takes us. You know, I'm thank you for having me on the show. And I know that you are in a good situation over there. You can be you can be open, and some of us can be a little less open, but we're all we're all on the same team. Indeed, and anyone with Jesus is also on the same team, no matter what they
believe about this. And and I hope that anyone listening, who who's sitting on the fence, I hope you feel respected. I respect your worldview. I don't like what mm hmm, yeah, I like what the scripture says. But if I ever have a conversation, it doesn't matter. Anyone from any religion, is Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, ball Earther. Look, I respect your world view. I respect you. Let's get that out of the way that if you respect me and my view,
I'll expect you and yours. Let's have a conversations. Let's let's be honest with each other and with ourselves and uh we can only we can only win by by doing that. But let's not get angry, mad, triggered all the rest of it. Let's let's not make fun, let's not mock too harshly. Right ah, Let's let's be truthful and he may be a little humorous, we can handle it, right, but hm, but respect people.
Well said, and again, The book is a level Plane and introduction to Biblical Cosmology by Reinhold Geese Brack.
Pardon me, and I will have the link to the Amazon.
It's available enkindle or paperback, if you know me, I have the paperback version in my cart because just you know, you know, I remember reading Fahrenheit four fifty one and knowing that one day there will be a book burning, right, and it could be from a digital aspect of it, right, They're not going to be able to go to every person's house and look through their books. However, they can very simply pull books that don't go with the narrative
from a digital point of view. So I urge each and every one of you, if you can to twart and paperback and have it in your hand, be able to lend it to others who maybe right, all of us learn differently what some people that enjoy a conversation, some people like to read, some people like to watch videos. Being able to hand someone a book and process it in their time might be just a gift that that could change their life. So again, I highly recommend it
a level plane. Reinhold Geesebreckt, and I thank you for your candor and your honesty, and absolutely it's interesting that of all the topics in the world, it is one of the most divisive.
And if that doesn't point to.
How important it is, Like I don't know how people can't see if it's something simple like that in the terms of just discussion, right, something around versus something flat, doesn't just blow your mind. It is life changing and I have hundreds, if not a thousand emails to prove it. So, so again, thank you so much for your time and continued success with your book, and thank you for coming on and again for being so candid and also as you do, spreading the Gospel of Jesus.
Yes, thank you, and thank you for having me on the show. I know that this show is blessed many people, and I'm just blessed to join in the conversation. And hopefully conversation will encourage people where they're at to believe in better and higher things in the gospel, gospel truth, and to trust Jesus alone for their salvation and ultimately for the truth.
And I guess we should shout out Wayne. I hope you enjoyed the audio cast.
Yeah for sure, Yeah, Hey, Wayne, and thanks for directing this my way and we'll be talking soon with him and seeing what we can we can come up with together. Sounds good, So yeah, we'll definitely let you know. Thanks when we have something and God.
Bless God bless you, and looking forward to the next time we have a conversation. And to all the listeners out there, thank you for your continued support and your emails. And again, if you'd like to come on and share your journey like Reinold did this evening, please do send us an email. It is fe Files guest at gmail dot com, ephis and Frank is an echo f E Files guest at gmail dot com. Reinold, I am George, God bless each and every one of you. Have a
tremendous week. Until we meet again, my friends, we will see.
I know it's been a struggle. I don't know. You've had me fee the TI tell down all the way. Yeah, I know you feeling more. Your smile ain't the same. I saw wall go from You feel like you've lost your way. Don't give it. No, don't give it and never this home. Don't let call the primise. It ain't done yet. He's got up. Glad. Why it's a right time.
Got up, let me come? Why wait, God up.
Call, I can see the straight beside you. Child's are putting up five. Oh you're stronger, better thing. Yeah, you're gone, be all right. You're accepting a dead found.
Beautiful. You're shoving ride.
Yeah, you're living, breathing, move, you can hold your head a pie.
Don't give up. No, don't give in, never lose home.
Don't let go on the primise, it ain't donet's got a plant?
WHA's some way down? The God of Mericame. Don't give up. No, don't give in. You never lose home.
Don't let go on the promise, it ain't gonfe It's worth living.
What's a way down? The God of Mabel. Why it's a place now? The God?
Oh yeah, what a brave now the god baby, Oh yeah, gott.
Don't give up, No, don't give in, never lose hol do they go of the primsn in and done? Yes, got up playing?
Watch me die? Kind of eve cos? Don't give no dog giving, never home? Don't they got the crimes? Get ain't done. Love's worth living in? What's died? The God of heavy cos? Oh, the God of needs. Why don't God?
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