The following presentation is a Al Marvis Studio's production.
When you look me on the sky, do you feel? The poll question.
Why the stories told and left me behind?
In shadows where the truth we find? They built their tails on grafts and lines on theories they stake their designed put down here on this solid.
Graph, the answer screen. There, welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. I'm your host as always, George Hobbs. Hope everybody had a great year as this is the finale for twenty twenty four and our guest Andrew will be joining us in just a moment. Just a couple of housekeeping notes, please do stop by the website, the flat Earthfiles dot com. We have blog posts for every episode.
We have our podcast fault there. We have a chat room which has been having a hearty conversation about the recent expedition of a few people who had gone down to Antarctica. I think it was called the Final Experiment, So feel feary to join the chat there. And of course we have our forum when you're able to put more long form thoughts and people can respond to it.
To do there the flat earthfiles dot com questions, comments, concerns, but most importantly, if you would like to join the podcast like Andy is today, please send us an email fe filesguest at gmail dot com. The email address can be found in the show notes of the podcast and on the blog notes of every podcast on the website. And without any further ado, let's bring on our guests. By the way, should I call you Andrew or Andy?
Andrew?
Please, Andrew, it's great to meet you, joining us from Minnesota, and I appreciate your patience as we're finally able to get you here on the podcast and to close out twenty twenty four. Thanks for joining us, and please do introduce yourself to the audience.
Thanks for having me. George been a fan of the podcast for a while now. But my name is Andrew from Minnesota. And yeah, like the rest of you and the listeners, I have kind of recently a few years ago, discovered that Earth's flat.
Biggest question. I'm sorry, I didn't know if you were done or no?
Go ahead?
No, I was going to ask you. You know you said this came upon you a few years ago. I think in your email you'd said it's been about three years or so, was this the first rabbit hole you fell into, or had you been researching other things before you came upon flat Earth?
Yeah, no, this was not the first. One of the first ones was the Hollow Earth. Actually, Admiral Burden and that story if you're familiar with that, absolutely, And then of course everybody's favorite seems like is the the moon landing or the fake moon landing? And then uh, it's started off as I just used to think it was funny how globers and flat earthers were in chat rooms and just across the internet, we're just going after each other, and how people get so worked up about it. I
thought it was funny. And of course at the time, I never even had considered that the Earth could be flat. I had done no research, and I just thought, probably like everyone else, that of course the Earth's globe, that's that's duh. You know, you don't even think twice about that stuff. But then so the joke let me down the flat earth rabbit hole. And then as I did
more and more research, I was like, holy crap. I was like, and uh, I kind of hesitate to tell anybody about it, because, as you probably well know, you got to choose your audience with that subject.
You really do, and.
I was not.
Out of all the things that ran through my mind, that wasn't one of them. I was so excited to share that with my audience on my other podcast, and boy was my email my email full the next day. So I figured that out pretty quickly. I wanted to go back real quick before we get too far ahead. When you were researching Holloworth, I never went super deep into that, obviously. I've heard the stories and the interview with Admiral Byrd and all the stories when you were
going down that rabbit hole? Did it? A lot of people who research Holloworth kind of fall into the reptilian one as well as that something that you would come across.
Yeah, I did come across that. That was not uh it's interesting to me or or believable as the fact that Admiral Bird got escorted his plane escorted by flying saucers with Swasikas on them, and that story goes, Yeah, there's some remnants of a of a of German or civilization that lives in the hollow earth.
Right, and that explains new Man. I can't think I can't remember the name of it, but the Germans had a base in Antarctica prior to World War Two in the in the early to mid nineteen thirties, New Braunfels or something like that. It escapes my mind.
Right now, that sounds correct.
Go ahead, I'm.
Sorry, yeah, no, the Yeah. Then the other ideas were that that maybe where Hitler fled to during the war, and that there's some sort of underground or in under earth there tunnels are portals if you will, that can take you all over the planet.
Yeah, that's interesting. By the way, New Schwabenland I think was the name of it here and I'll have that link in the notes. Yeah, that is interesting because there's a lot of people who argue that Argentina was a diversion and that he it's interesting. History. As we know, it is skewed, right, the victors write the history books.
But it always fascinated me that Germany after how bankrupt they were, Like there's pictures I think in the late twenties, maybe even nineteen thirty, of people walking down the streets with wheelbears full of cash like and it wasn't worth a dime. And and then a few years later they have a base in Antarctica and all of a sudden, you know, World War two breaks out of It is a very interesting time in history that I certainly believe that they hide the truth about.
Yeah, and if you dig deep a little bit onto that there's a theory or a story that goes the US government in some way funded Hitler's rise to power and then basically that funded the Nazi regime.
Yeah, for sure, and IBM did as well. I think it's ig Farbin, which played a large part in the industrial rise of uh, you know, Germany post Weimar and their industrial rise, the creation of the v W, the Autubah and uh you know, about as quickly as they rose, they fell. But it is an interesting time period that has a lot of interesting twists and and plot holes in it. And then, you know, as they say in Hollywood, they create a certain narrative to lead you down a
kind of a different road. And you know, you were just talking about the moon landing was one of the things that you kind of researched and kind of I assume led you to flat Earth. You know, it's a shame Stanley Stanley Kubrick didn't get an Academy Award for that Moon Landing movie in nineteen sixty nine.
Huh yeah, allegedly, I mean yeah, depending on who you ask.
Yeah, yeah, that guy's got a lot of interesting connections. Eyes wide shut was I think that was the movie that was based on the Rothschild's party in England in nineteen seventy three and Warner brother Warner Brothers executives saw it in a hotel and they flipped out, and then he was dead the next morning and they ended up cutting out like thirty minutes of the film.
And then have you seen that the supposed video of Kubrick after his death, him admitting that he filmed the moon landing?
You know, I have. I'm not sure, yes I have. I mean to answer your question, yes, whether or not that was created by someone else. But I fully believe there's a picture of there's like four or five people a Kubrick. I want to say it was Von Brown and a couple other people within the space you know, very very high ranking in the space agencies that were
with him. That picture is one hundred percent legit and was taken I think either in sixty seven or sixty eight, and I think it was probably if I remember correctly, you know, that infamous year of nineteen sixty eight, which is when they started building the World Trade Center towers and the Jets won the Super Bowl. I think that was the year two thousand and one of Space Odyssey came out, and I think it was so ahead of
its time. That was his resume, you know, to lead the chart on the moon landing production.
Yeah, that's that's That's how I understand it too.
It's interesting stuff kind of what was Was it a website? Was it a YouTube channel? But when you started your research, where were you looking and what evidence that was produced to you that really led you to believe that we weren't on a spinning ball?
Yeah, I couldn't tell you the exact spot, but it was. It was, like I said, I used to not chat rooms, I guess because those aren't really a thing anymore, but probably like Twitter, Reddit or something where I used to. I just like to laugh at the back and forth between the you know, the glovers. What do you call them glovers? I don't want to use some people I've heard globe chard, which I thought was kind of kind of mean, kind of unnecessary.
Yeah, that's yeah, I call them globers. I guess you know, I try to, you know, I you know, Bill Cooper used to term sheeple, and I try not to use anything that's condescending towards other people because I was a walking zombie for much of my life as well, you know, just I accepted the world as it was produced to me. So we should treat everyone with the same respect. And all we can do is lead them to water. It's up to them to do what they do with the information.
But I don't. I don't like to be condescending to people. But you know, your your your pro globe people and your pro flat earth people, I guess.
Right right, Yeah, in the same way, there's no reason to get nasty because you disagree on something. And yeah, it's uh, it's tough to lead people to this subject because you don't want to. You don't want to look like an idiot, because that's what a lot of people will look at you as if you bring this up.
Yeah, and also if you're condescending to them, they'll shut down, they won't even listen to you.
It seems to me that though from watching, you know, reading and the research and all the back and forth, is that the the globe believers seem to get way more emotional about this subject. And there they seem to be the ones quick to, you know, using derogatory or insults against flat earthers.
Yeah, I'll tell you when you look at the way that like flat Earth Dave presents something, and then you look at the other guy, what was his name, Professor Dave, where he is just strictly condescending and if you don't agree with everything he says, then you're just a dummy and he doesn't have the time of day for you. And that's just you know, nobody voted for him to be the end all be all of questions about our realm. We're all entitled to our beliefs. There's people out I
get emails all the time. There's stole, a lot of people who believe in Holloworth flat Earth. There's people who want to be convinced of flat Earth. They'll email me and say, hey, I really want to be a flat earther, but can you explain X y Z. And I'm like, look, you know, we have three hundred hours of information presented to you. It's up to you to take that information
and research for yourself. I don't want to be the one I don't want to convince I'm not a salesman, right, I'm not selling you a car, I'm not selling you a vacuum cleaner. I'm not a Kirby vacuum cleaner salesman. I'm just presenting my opinion and what I believe. And the reason that is is because I've seen firsthand through my time in the military and other ventures, that the game is rigged and we are being lied to in epic proportions. And I did enough research to understand that.
You know, for many I believed the moon landing was rigged, So why didn't I Why didn't I have an open mind too that maybe we weren't on.
A globe, so you uh, you were able to believe the moon landing was fake, but not weren't quite ready for flat Earth at the time. Well, it's.
I don't even know how to, so it's not. It never even really came on my radar, like I guess if I saw it in all my studies, I just scooted it past it. I thought, well, that's just you know, you know, I picture a flat Earth or of some guy that was, you know, living in a cabin in a mountain three thousand miles from the closest you know,
other person. I just didn't give it a second of thought, Like like you if I was on Reddit or something and I saw something flat Earth, I just kind of laughed and I thought, you know, now that's crazy, and I just didn't realize I didn't have the wherewithal to understand that we're being lied about basically everything.
Well, yeah, see, that's when you start down one rabbit hole, whether it's the moon landing or even hollow Earth or any conspiracies it seemed to then you have one leads to another, and then that's pretty much how I got to flat Earth. And then uh yeah, doing the research,
I was like, holy crap. I was like, I can't really believe that I believe in this right now, but you know, you're It's taught me that we should trust our senses more and not believe everything that you read, and certainly not believe everything that you're told.
One hundred percent. That was one of my biggest takeaways as well. And I want to preface this statement with once again, I'm not taking a shot at teachers. I'm talking about the system that is in place. Teach is a very noble profession, but I too, like going through school, we would be presented with helio centrism, and there were some things that didn't make sense to me, which says, you know, my sense is it didn't feel right, but
I didn't number one year younger. A lot of people are afraid to ask questions in school to be made fun of. Right, We've all experienced that in school, so you just kind of run with it. And right, it's people that are smarter than you. Right, the teacher turns on the projector and there's Neil de grass Tyson or you know, Joe Astrama or PhD. He's got a PhD from Arizona State and Penn State. And you're like, well, guys a lot smarter than me, So I just better
accept it. But then you understand and twenty twenty proved this that most of these things have an end state that ends with a dollar sign. That's why you know Ffiser that were making four billion dollars a quarter during the you know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, et cetera. And then as things fizzled out, they're stock bottomed out. So there's money to be made in everything in the world.
What's in the news today, Andrew. It's the government funding, right, and they were up against the wall to get passed. If people want funding, they have to be deemed important, right. How you know, if you put an asteroid into Google, you'll there'll be a recent story about an asteroid that is somewhere near the Earth. Just go to Google and put it in. So they have to be wanted, they have to be important in order to get that funding, and the almighty dollar plays a big part of it,
other than the Grand Scheme, which we know is deception. Right.
And that's probably the most upsetting thing that I've learned after doing all this research, is that especially when it comes to like say NASA, so if they're they can't get to they're just taking all of our taxpayer's money and doing god knows what with it exactly.
And we see every week, you know, and anybody who drives here in Minnesota, maybe you're near Minneapolis or Saint Paul, we have a you know, if I drive up to Wilmington, you see the condition of some of these cities and how our own you know, citizens here are being neglected. Then you turn on the news and there's forty million dollars for this country and I dive much deeper than that.
I look through the major nonprofits. Go look at the Carnegie Go to Google everybody and put in the Carnegie Foundation nine ninety, put in the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation nine ninety, and then put in the Rockefeller Foundation nine ninety. The numbers that you see there are numbers that you can't even comprehend. And then when you scroll down and look to see where the money goes and how people who are involved in this air quote nonprofit,
you know they're getting paid handsomely. It's all it's all a rig scheme. And now you know, while you were talking, I went to Google and put in asteroid.
Now they're.
You know how they're pushing for like carbon taxes. And here in Delaware, we're not allowed to have plastic bags at the at the you know, if you go to the Dollar store, Walmart, they all have to be paper bags. We have paper straws and all the other nonsense. Well, now they're pushing they they want a greener outer space. The Washington Post wrote an article five hours ago, how we need to keep space clean from all the space junk. We need to go out there and keep our space clean.
It's funny because when you watch videos of the iss or moonwalks, it looks pretty clean if they're working it up in space there.
I've never seen a McDonald samburger wrapper floating by watching that, have you.
Nope, it certainly not in or a satellite.
Yeah, that's the thing. What are the things you never really see? You never see stars, you never see satellites. And then there's a website forgive me, I don't know what off the top of my head, but if you go to it, it shows you all the satellites that that are, you know, that's orbiting the Earth, and it's just it looks like a like a city population or like you know, Dave's app that's got the people find
or all the blue dots. It looks like that. But you know, you got this thing flying supposedly seventeen thousand, five hundred miles an hour. People are just floating out there as seamless as can be and not a thing in sight.
Makes perfect sense when you say it like that, exactly. Yeah, that's I think the last number I saw was nine nine hundred satellites supposedly in orbit.
Yeah, and they've been since. Do you remember when the first satellite. Was it fifties or sixties?
Oh, I think it was. I feel like it was the fifties. But what was the first satellite was Sputneck. Is that a satellite?
Yeah, that was the Russian one. The first artificial satellite to orbit Earth was Sputnik one, launched by the Soviet Union October fourth, nineteen fifty seven. They claim it was about the size of a beach ball and it speed was eighteen thousand miles per hour. And that's what I don't get right. I remember I used to sell satellite dishes back in the nineties between my break and service,
but I never went on installations. However, when we got to Iraq, I think was our second tour, we got this something bird satellite system and I went up on the roof and you have to put it like exactly to this certain degree you know, maybe it was fifty eight degrees or something, and it took a lot of effort to get it exactly right. And I'm like, wait a second, it And I actually thought and like I would think these things, but just go about my day and put it in the filing cabinet forget about it.
I'm like, if we're spinning at a thousand. Well, I just didn't I didn't know how much. I just thought, if we're spinning and kind of you know, all these things are, if satellites are orbiting the Earth, why do I have to have this exact measurement? Now there's some guy right now who's at home saying, oh, you dummy, it's because of X y Z.
But sure, But would you'd think, yeah, and if the satellite's move in, you'd think you'd be constantly adjusting that thing.
Right, or it would have some kind of sensor on it that could kind of rotate and follow it or something.
Right, That's what I would think.
Now, now I have to I should dig this podcast up and play it so on my fact Hunder podcast in I want to say it was a spring of twenty twenty two. There was a gentleman who came on anonymously and he claimed that there was no such thing as satellites, but they were actually bouncing signals off the firmament at a certain angle, and that's how those things worked.
I've been not heard that one, but it's interesting to think about.
It is, and you know, I thought about it. You know, I think that the highest anyone's been is what seventy three miles? And I think that was a go fast rocket. I don't know how high the firmament is, so it's really hard to say. But something like that bouncing it off, you know, because it is solid. You know a lot of people think it's ice like to me, makes more sense than the satellite dish to orbiting satellite.
Yeah, that makes more sense to me as well. That's so where was it? Oh? Yeah, man, that's the other thing too, since for talking about in space, space is supposedly a vacuum. So how can you have a vacuum next to a pressurized system like the Earth, the atmosphere? We have what's the what's the pressure? Four pounds square square anything like that.
It's something like that. And again it's not feasible.
What's that?
It's just not feasible. It doesn't make sense. And these are the things, uh that are questioned and are brought up to people. But that's where like the pseudoscience comes in. They'll they'll just make hypothetical guesses. But everything based on heliocentrism is hypothesis and and educated guesses.
It's funny to us, all a guy was using chat GPT talking about heliocentric model and the geocentric model, and you got chat GBT to basically admit that the heliocentric model is a was derived from the geocentric model.
Isn't that funny? Sometimes you can catch AI to be in too, honest, I've seen that before as well. And I always go back to the fact if you were to take someone who, let's say, came out of a coma and they have no memory of anything, and you present heliocentrism and geocentrism to them, I mean, they're going to think that the heliocentrism is like a practical joke. They're going to be looking for the cameras, right.
Yeah. I was wondered what what it would have been like if I was ever given the choice. Well, we were growing up and learning to pick which one makes more sense because they certainly don't teach you anything. If they say anything at all, The only thing they'll say about there's being flat is that, oh, that was a That's what our ancestors or the ancient people believe that didn't know any better.
You know what's interesting to me the Jesuit Copernicus, right, he kind of started pushing the heliocentric model. I want to say around fifteen thirty, and the Christopher Columbus story only predates that by thirty or forty years. And I'm shooting from the hip here, guys, I don't know the exact dates. I'm getting old now, I don't have the
memory I used to. But part of the story of Columbus is, you know, all the sailors were afraid to embark on this expedition because they were afraid they were going to fall off the earth, right, because they thought the Earth was flat back then. But we have in texts and I have a book somewhere around here that Martin Luther wrote. And Martin Luther in fifteen like thirty six, you know, he accused Copernicus of heresy for the heliocentric model.
So I even, to be honest with you, I even question you know that the whole Columbus story, because you know the CC if A is one, B is two, C is three, there's your thirty three, which is kind of a tip to the illuminati in freemasonry. And then how they include that the flat earth portion into the story, right?
And then have you seen all the maps from that the fifteen hundreds, and then up until even that in the US, I think the late fifties, you can find the maps that they had in the library in school were flat earth maps. In what year was that, I think of in nineteen and fifty eight, I think it's about the time they yanked all the evidence of flat earth maps and replaced it with what we have today.
Yeah, I think you're right. Fifty eight was about the time, because fifty eight was also the Antarctic Treaty, if I'm not mistaken.
Yep. I thought about going to check my local library even for an old Encyclopedia Britannica, because in there and some of the old ones you've probably seen this as well, that it gives the height of a Firmament's.
Right, That's right, And I have that saved somewhere the picture and it even, yeah, it gives the the like it was like fifty eight degrees at thirteen thousand feet or something like that, right.
Yep, something like that. So then from there then then you could use that or I've seen it used to figure the height at the north pole or at the highest point. I can't recall what it was.
Yeah, and I got to go back to where where I bookmark that, because if you go on to Google and you try to find that picture that I know what's on YouTube. There's a guy who took a YouTube video of it, and I want to say it that there. Every now and when, pardon me, every now and then one of those Encyclopedia Britannicas will pop on eBay. But it is expensive.
Yeah. I wonder why that is.
Because they know they have a piece of history that Okay, you're right now. Nineteen fifty eight Encyclopedia Britannica documents a dome of thirteen thousand feet in Antarctica. And I'll put this in the show notes too. It's a quick YouTube video that shows the pictures. I've seen this several times, so yeah, good call.
I have a feeling I'm not going to find anything, probably at the local library, but you never know, because it is they do have a lot of old stuff, and it's this small little town, so probably maybe even it might be a good spot to look to find something like that.
Yeah for sure. Well, yeah, especially the older towns, right, they would be more apt to have those type of books. I doubt that a major city library would have something like that. I'm sure they clean them out regularly.
Yes, sir, I would thank you. I'm from a little town way up Northnesda. But this town, I know, the town was founded free nineteen hundred eighteen ninety eight or something.
Now are you up in the northern part or whereabouts? Are you?
Well? Do you know where Hibbing is?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone knows. It probably is Bob Dylan's hometown. Yeah, yep, right near there.
Yes, so you're okay, I got Youah.
An hour or so from Canada.
Yeah you're up there. Oh yeah, you're further north than Grand Rapids.
Yeah, right, right between Grand Rapids and Hibbing.
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
So yeah, we're it's it's up here. Yeah, you ask me why? Don't ask me why I'm still here?
So what I guess the closest big city would be Dilute. That's what probably ninety minutes to the out the east of.
Yep. Yep, it's just about that long. So yeah, are uh oh this uh? I thought this was kind of interesting that I learned later on the high school I went to. On the outside of the building, it's an old brick building, but there's over the doors, there's swastikas in the stonework really back from a time when when that used to mean.
Peace, right, and but the the didn't the Indians use that also, And because you're you're near an Indian reservation too.
Right, Yes, a couple of them.
Yeah, that's that's interesting. I wonder if that go ahead.
Yeah, I didn't I've never heard of. Did you say, did the Natives use that symbol for something? I thought they?
I know it was widely used in the eighteen hundreds by a lot of different people. So the swastika has been used many indigenous cultures, including the hope I Navajo and the Pima. Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing that. Yeah, that's confirmed. Just because it was affiliated with the regime in the thirties is why it ceased to be used. But that was a widely used symbol prior to nineteen thirties.
Yeah, it's used in as a religious symbols too. I think it's some religions, if I'm not mistaken.
That's interesting. And again, you know, history is rewritten, and that's why it's important. Right. We've tried to do better, my wife and I to document the things that have happened over the last five years, and we want to pass it down to our children. So like you know, maybe well after, you know, after we're well and gone, right, we're passed on to the next world, you know, you know, and they try to push another twenty twenty on her
great great grandchildren or whatever. Hopefully that book still exists and they won't allow the state to you know, close the churches down and everything that we saw a couple
of years ago. Because if we just rely on you know, the history books and everything to mold our children, were making a huge mistake because we know the people who you know, I've done deep dives into the people who actually produce these textbooks, right Gazelle, what's her name, Gislayne Maxwell's father, she he I'm sorry, did owned McGraw hill for a big part of it, Leon Black from Apollo Management.
He was directly affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein. So all these people who are producing our textbooks are not good people. And you can imagine that right that they're trying to manipulate our children's minds. So that's why it's so important. You know, after we've passed and we're in heaven rejoicing in God's kingdom with Christ that we continue to leave these things in place for our children, and I think that's part of we depend too much on others to you know, mold the minds of our children.
I couldn't agree with you more. That's one of the reasons why I yet to have children's because but it just seems to me that it's got to be tough to raise children in this world especially. I mean, they don't even hardly use textbooks anymore in school. I don't think everyone I know, my nephew is thirteen now, or sometimes I think they were given they give all the kids a tablet, yeah, to do all their learning.
Yep, it's all tablets. Yeah, And I'm showing my age of textbooks, but it's still the same Maxwell. I'm sorry McGraw hill. And I think Pearson's is the other large one that still produced the educational you know, for science and math and everything else. But yeah, you're right, it's all tablets. They signed for their tablets the beginning of the year. They do all the assignments on tablets. And I think you and I always say technology is amazing.
And here we are having a conversation. I'm in Delaware, you're in Minnesota. But at the same time, I think it's children should be writing with a pencil and a pen and learning cursive and all these things because and some people will say that's ridiculous because it's not used.
But at the same time, like I always compare it in the army, when we went to the range, we always had to qualify with our iron sights, and then once we were squared away with that, then we went ahead and we would put on a cogs or church cons or you know, M sixty eight whatever site. We would use night vision goggles and stuff. But you have to be able to accomplish the basics before you go
on to bigger and better things. So hopefully they are still teaching at least in the elementary levels, you know, actual writing and cursive and those type of things. Because listen, the numbers speak for themselves. The overall numbers have degraded over the last twenty years. So is it the system, is it the way they're learning? Is it that the technology makes them? I don't know what are your thoughts.
It seems to me that there's some that, you know what, the government probably behind a lot of this or whatever institutions there the attention spans of children nowadays is less than what it used to be because of tablets and and whatnot, that they they need to be engaged all the time to keep their attention. For instance, I was playing Xbox with my nephew, thirteen year old nephew. We were waiting for our game to load, and I can hear him in the background on his tablet. He's playing
Candy Crush while we're waiting for Again. I was like, I'm like, the game's loading right now, get off your tablet, so you know, he can't wait five seconds for what he wants.
That's interesting And it was actually mister Rogers, Fred Rogers, of all people who said that we need space and time. I'm not out of space there. We need away from the television, away from technology, away from radio alone for the Internet to be able to process your thoughts. If your brain is constantly what's the thing you know you call when your brain's always trying to get that next hit?
You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, the dopamine, thank you, Yeah, the dopamine, you know, And it's just you never give it a break. You never have time for yourself to think of an original thought. And that's why we have you know, my daughters, she'll be fifteen tomorrow, but still you know, limited time with the cell phone. She just doesn't care it around all day. That's that's a recipe.
And then again, I'm not telling anybody how to raise their kids, but we just realized that you still have to have interactions, go out, do chores and just you know, it drives me a little crazy. Even if we we might go out to a movie once a year, maybe twice a year, if there's something my wife and daughter wants to see and there's kids watching the movie and
watching their phone. Or you know how many times have you stopped in a red light, even out where you live, and the person of the light turns green and then don't move because they're on their cell phone?
Oh a lot, Yeah, quite a lot. Yeah. One time a friend of mine went we went to a hockey game Minnesota Wild and a guy and it's maybe probably a ten year old son were sitting next to us. We had great seats too, and the second he sits down, he pulls out a huge iPad or a tablet and then watched the entire game through the tablet, never even looked up at the ice so.
He watched the game he was at on his tablet, right, And that's funny, Like, I'm older, I'm fifty five, right, and I remember going to baseball games and you know, Mike Schmidt hits a home run in the bottom of the ninth and you're there in the moment, you're clapping, you're watching them around the bases, you watch the ball fly out of the stadium, and you live the moment.
And now, whatever sporting event it is, when it gets to you know, an important part, people are more concerned about trying to capture that moment on their phone instead of experiencing the moment. And that is something that we can't ever forget. As this technology progresses, and you know, they're going to try to make VR the norm. They're going to try to have these automated vehicles, autonomous vehicles.
You know, they're telling me that in you know, twenty thirty five, there won't be in you know, all the vehicles be autonomous. I'm like, listen, gee, I am not driving a vehicle. I love to drive, and I will never get in a vehicle that is autonomous to me. So we have to as amazing as technology as we have to make sure that we have time and remember that we're human beings and live within our moments.
I couldn't agree with you more. I grew up just about the time I'm thirty seven. So my first cell phone was the the Nokia the brick when I was about seventeen, and we used to go outside and play. You know, we never didn't have your phone with you all the time. I guess, well, at that time you could have it, but I mean they couldn't even send pictures. It was just for I remember when texting was was.
Oh, it was brutal. You had to press you know, see three times or what or you know, three times to get to see.
And I used to be so quick with the texting. When I was in high school. You could have your phone in your my pocket and U text, which is.
By the feel Dang, that's the next level.
I couldn't do that anymore. But you I mean growing up or through school, I mean we learned cursive. We still had textbooks, which you know, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, because if you use technology right, it could be you could do
great things. Oh absolutely, But it seems like this is my experience with having a couple nieces and a nephew that there's they're too easily distracted when you had that tatlish too much other stuff you could be I'm doing playing games whatever it might be, rather than trying to learn.
Yeah, and again I'm not old man river, you know, shaking my head at the sun or my fist at the at the sky. Right. You know, the technology is amazing, but I just I've always said it's a double edged sword and we have to be very careful with it. You look at AI, and I mean AI is is what's used you know when you upload for all you content, uh you know folks out there who you know, produce stuff for YouTube. As that's uploading, it's being scanned by AI.
And if it picks up any of the the words that you shouldn't say, like I got kicked off YouTube in twenty or twenty one because I said the V word. I said, you know, I was talking about the VAS and I got booted off of YouTube. I got booted off of PayPal. So you know, AI is certainly a double edged sword. I wanted a great conversation. By the way, things that should be discussed, you know, the education system
is very near and dear to my heart. It does not belong to the federal government if they want to divide the money up and give it to the states. Fortunately they give it to the states with well, you have to include this, this, and this, otherwise you don't get the money. And that's a big problem. But I did want to ask you what your six silver bullets were as far as flat Earth.
One of the ones. Yeah, I already mentioned a couple of little ones. I guess I'm mentioned that you can't. You don't see satellites during spacewalks or the videos the photographs that they have of that or of Earth that they say are original and unedited are ridiculous. The fact you can't according to physics is I understand it that you can't have a pressurized system without a container, and same thing with the vacuum. Can't maintain a vacuum unless
it's a sealed systems. And then the oh have you seen that the sixteen emergency landings? Ye, yeah, that was a fascinating discovery when I found that, because a couple of them were unreal. But the distance that they would travel to make an emergency landing.
Yeah, it makes no sense on a globe, but it makes perfect sense on a flat earth.
A buddy of mine, because we were talking about this, one of the few friends that I would bring the subject up with about plane flights, is that he said that, according to somebody that he knows that was worked for the airline and some capacity, that all flights take off and fly straight north and then they let the globe spin and then they fly back south, back down to their destination. I thought that was crazy.
It is crazy, and you have to realize that air travel is a very very tight business. They that's why they charge you extra to bring on baggage because the more weight they carry, the more fuel they burn. So they are on a fly UH to you know, the most direct route. And when you're flying I know we've
we've talked about this before on the podcast. When you're flying UH, say from you know, Philly to to London, it looks like you're going up and around, like up past New Finland and and and everywhere else Whereas you look at it on a flat earth map, you are making a direct flight.
I remember I flew to UH from Minnesota to Italy in two thousand and six and seeing the graphic on the screen. Uh, the the the arc you know. I'm like, why are we flying wave so far up? And then somebody was like, oh, it's because the because of the curvature of the Earth. So that's the quickest route on a sphere is what they call it, the great a great circle or something.
Yeah. How did you like Italy?
It was great. We stayed in Rome for a couple of weeks and then we had a day trip to Naples and Pompeii. That was the highlight of the trip for sure.
Oh wow, what was Pompeii like did they have I've never I've passed through the airport, but I've never been to Italy. Pompey must have been very interesting with all the historical art effects there.
Yes, it was, and it was interesting to see that the streets, some of them were still in like near pristine condition after all these years. And the just the system they have, the aqueducts and all that, you know, semi you know, primitive, I guess technology, but how effective and efficient it was, like the houses had some of them had running water.
That's interesting. Yeah, that was yeah, go ahead, I was gonna say, did you have a chance to go through Pisa.
No, we didn't make it to Pisa, but on the next thing, that's it for the next trip. I was young, Me and my brother went. I was only nineteen, so I kind of feel like I didn't appreciate it. So now it's twenty years later, thinking of all the things that I would do if I were to go to Italy. Now was much different agenda than when I was nineteen. Then it was like we're hitting the town.
Yeah, sure, absolutely when you're younger.
But we saw the we saw the usual stuff, you know, the Colisseum, the Travy Fountain, and we did see quite a bit, but not as much as I should have. We didn't which we wanted to make it to a Mass at the Vatican, but it was almost during it was during Christmas time. There was crazy down there.
Oh for sure, for sure. That's awesome. Though Europe, you know, they are slowly, sadly, they're slowly starting to do away with the historical aspects of Europe and they're transforming it as we speak. So I always tell people if you're thinking about going to hungry or hungry Europe, that now's the time for sure.
Yeah, that was the thing in Rome. They had you just be walking down the street, you know, and then there's modern you know's cafes and restaurants, and then you come across just some walled off just random bits of ruins here and there, you know, half crumbled buildings and stuff that are just preserved, which there's all over the city. I thought that was interesting. They at least for now or for then, they really seem to appreciate the history.
Yeah, that that that's amazing. I think the landing tower piece is like seven hundred years since it's been completed, So that's one of the pieces of architecture I wanted to see before, you know, in the next few years for sure. Regarding flat Earth, have you had any success stories in sharing this type of information or has it pretty much fallen on deaf ears.
I'm not one to push it, you know, too hard. And but my wife, she she thinks I think she thinks I'm crazy. She won't say that, but she doesn't seem to have any interest in and listening to it for whatever reason. I guess. I haven't really asked her what what the reason is. She's busy doing other stuff, I suppose, and you know, when I know, I know what She's probably thinking, is that why you why you're
gonna waste your time on that nonsense? So I'll bring that one of the times, right, I'll bring up to her. But oh I had I had a real close friend of mine. He's he's the type you mentioned earlier about Neil de grasse Tyson, and like the quote unquote the experts, he's quick to jump in like, well, all the science says that this is this way, So I'm gonna just trust the experts because they're experts.
That's interesting, Yeah, go ahead, sorry, sorry no, I.
Uh so, yeah, do not see the problem with that. They're they're experts, and some of these are theoretical, like sciences that are largely made up of mathematics that are and uh and formulas, stuff that are invented by humans, by men that are just theories. And just to just to just throw just say, well the experts say this, so that's what I'm gonna go with. Made me, uh kind of disappointed in him because I thought he was he's a smart guy. But he's but you wouldn't say
that if you were. He's not open minded, I guess is what is the problem.
Yeah, that that's a good way of uh of terming it is that many people are close minded when it comes to certain things. I think a lot of it is subconscious, just because of the way that Hollywood and television and news and through the education system that that has reinforced time and time again that we live on
a spinning ball. So anytime a piece of evidence is presented that challenges what has been subconsciously pounded into a person's brain, a shield again subconsciously probably automatically comes up
and repels that information because it goes against everything. And again, you're talking twenty thirty, forty fifty years worth of this type of information being hammered time and time again through all those different avenues of approach, whether it be technology, television, movies, the news, and education.
Yeah, exactly. H I lost my train. I thought for a second, Sorry, I got my castor on my desk. Uh uh.
Yeah.
So I guess back to bringing it up to people I haven't really told pretty much. I guess anybody that that I really believe that the Earth is flat, they kind of think of it as, uh, you know, it's kind of a kind of a joke.
Well, have you have you spoken to your friends about other rabbit holes in particular.
Yep, the moon landing for sure is one. And see that one is it's easier. It seems like for UH people to swallow it. You know what I mean?
It is.
The my fav see the the the people that I would bring this up to, they would they would say, well, if if they fake the moon landing and if the earth is flat, then the you know, the number of people that would have to be in on the deception, it's just it's too large number of people. So it's it doesn't seem possible to to pull such a huge lie off in UH today's day and age. You know.
Yeah. But with that being said, you know, I like to reply with it's really only it's not as many people as you think because of the compartmentalization and because the same people who push this false You know that these lies, let's just call them what they are, these lies, are the same people who control the media. So who are these people going to go to to spill their beans? And they can very easily. And I'm telling you go back. You look at Gus Grissolm. You can look at the
guy who investigated the Apollo one. He and his entire family were taken out. You look at all the whistleblowers through history in the last sixty years, pardon me, not just in space, but big pharma and military industrial complex whistleblowers who have been led to their demise. And what happens, right, it's in the news for a couple hours, everybody's just like, Wow, that's that. I can't believe that, that's you know, and
you're upset. And then what happens in this world we live in today with there's another headline two hours later, right, the CEO of United Healthcare has been shot, and then two hours later the US government is about to be shut down two hours you know what I'm saying. So even if they put it out there, it's only it'll only be out there for a couple hours. It'll be gone. People will get upset, but nobody will do anything about it at the end of the day, right.
Right, because nobody wants to go against the the grain, you know, the narrative and depending on the subject. Yeah, you've got to be careful what you say and who you say it to, uh, because you know you might never know who is UH in danger of getting erased or disappeared.
Right, And I don't care about the folks like us who're just having this general conversation. But but it's the people. Let's say, you know, Joe Smith, who is the you know, c the executive vice president of SpaceX, who knows how much you know, government money is being pushed around, that's going as basically money laundering. You know. For somebody like to come out and say, oh, it's really just fake, you know that, that's the type of person that will
get caught up in the grind. They just can't go after everyone who comes out on these lines because they'll just play you off. It's silly, especially with flat Earth, right, because most people still even at this particular stage, right, we've been fighting the good fight for a while now, and we have made headway in this community, but we're still very very much the minority.
Would you agree, yes, very much.
So what would you think it would take to flip the script?
Well with most people, and I think you need something like a celebrity, really say, let's say Taylor Swift to come out and say research flat Earth something like that for enough people to look into it and to change my mind. The thing seems to me in my experience, people don't like to admit that they're wrong, and they also don't want to look into something that they think
is ridiculous, even though they haven't done any research. They hear flat earth and they go, I'm not gonna waste my time looking into this because it's nonsense, that's right. That's the the wall I find myself getting up against when I get into conversation or try or start one anyway with any of my friends or family. Is it's just that it's that's ridiculous. I'm not gonna waste any time on this. And it's like, Okay, I'm not gonna
tell you what to do. But if you're bored and you feel like learning something, and if willing to admit that you might be wrong, and it might yeah, see that's what they might might shatter your world a little bit. I think a lot of people can't handle that too. Is another thing they want to They want to believe what they believe already, and they don't want to have anything disturb their reality, if you know what I.
Mean, yeah, one hundred percent. And going to back what you were basically saying was, you know, most people don't want to be that guy or that girl most people in life, they want to fit in. They have their pack of friends, their Facebook friends, and it does take a lot of courage to come out and speak on
your convictions. It truly does. And unfortunately we live in a world where you know that speaking the truth can change your life in different ways, right once, and flat Earth is one of those things when you come out like myself, right, you can tell when when when you walk into certain air is of the world and people know you and you always have that hanging over your head. Yeah, even though you're you're the flat earth guy, Yeah exactly, But even though you're the same person, you know, that's
not even true. I was going to say, you're the same person that you've always been, but that's not even the truth because I think once you understand and acknowledge that we don't live on a spinning ball, it does change you. But you're still the same person. Right. You haven't lost your mind. You didn't spend time at Arkham
Asylum or anything. You just and for a lot of people, it's you become older and you start to notice things that you didn't notice when you were going one hundred miles an hour and working two jobs and raising three children. But it's important to recognize those moments in your life when you question things. Put them in the file cabinet. Maybe you're not ready to dig at the time, but don't ignore it, don't turn the blind eye to it.
Just put it in your back pocket. And when things slow to it slow down for you down the road or when you know you get up the courage to look into these things. And it's okay to to not believe all the same things we believe. It's your journey to the truth. But you have to understand. And I'm here this is one thing. I will stand on my soapbox and tell you that these people are lying to you about ninety percent of the things they say.
Exactly. If you don't know, I would say, if you don't want to start with the flat earth, just if you like, if politics is your thing, it's it's definitely not mine. Just do some go down some rabbit holes in that subject and find the lies. And then when you realize that, yeah, like you just said, most things that you see on the one reason I don't watch the news one it's incredibly depressing most of the time. And and that's the other reason is just because the
what they would have you believe just seems ridiculous. And uh, it took Uh when I was young, I never even thought about any of these things. I was going doing, do my thing, never stopped to question things. I was just too busy, too focused on what whatever the heck
I thought was important at the time. And now, like we mentioned a little bit touched on this earlier, that what you said, mister Rogers said, it's important to have a quiet place to sit down and just reflect without without distractions, and and then also on the writing stuff down. I still do that when I when I researched and whatever it might be, or when I write a grocery list on a piece of paper. You know, a lot
of all my notes are in tablets notebooks. It's that's definitely helps to I think, for if you're trying to remember something, that's a big thing. But yeah, people don't take the time. And also I think people don't maybe know how to research things the best way because if you just search something, you click on the first thing you see and then you go, okay, well that's that's it. Now. I now I settled that this site says the Earth is a globe, so that's that's the end of that argument.
That's such a good piece of information that we should always remember when we finally are able to have that conversation with a friend or a family member, that that you say, listen, number one, don't use Google. Maybe you can recommend a couple of websites. I keep meaning to
make little cards, and I bought a laminator. I actually broke down a bought a laminator a couple of weeks ago, and I want to make little cards and laminate them because that that is the one thing if you try to share this information and they you know, they go home and they're laying in bed at night and they pop open their phone and they go to Google and they put in is the Earth flat? That's game over?
We lost, right, Yeah, And then nobody stops to think about the the order of of you know, the ads or the which websites come up and which ones get pushed to the bottom of the list. It takes a little bit of effort to to kind of figure that kind of stuff out, to navigate your whereund to find credible information, because for every piece of credible information that's out there, there's one hundred pieces.
Of bs absolutely.
Yeah, so I guess I just thought of this. I should have touched on this earlier. Is that I said to you in my email that the most the biggest piece of evidence I had for flats was the Bible because I was, uh, I still still am Catholic, baptized Catholic, and uh for a time in my youth, I was even an altar boy at a Catholic church. And UH, I kind of got away from religion and God as I got in my early adulthood, probably because because I've probably felt like it was kind of pushed on me
as a child. You don't really when you're twelve thirteen, you don't really have a choice. You know, your parents tell you going to church and you're gonna be an ultar boy in this and that you don't really have much of a choice. But now in my late thirties, now kind of come back to religion and God, and uh I was a with clear eyes, I guess they're with a different perspective with now, I feel like with the ability to understand what I'm actually what I'm what
I'm reading or seeing or hearing. So I'm I'm definitely grateful for that. There must be a reason why he You know, I've found my way to this knowledge. You know, I don't know what exactly that is yet or what I'm gonna do with this information. I know that when the time's right, and when the depending on the the
person or the audience, I'll definitely share this. And I don't I'm not worried about people thinking I'm crazy, because the people that know me probably already think that for a lot of other reasons, not the least among them being somewhat of a I would say, I'm gonna enjoy my privacy. They would tell you that some people would say that he's a hermit or something like that. And it's not that I'm anti socialist, that I enjoy being alone.
And uh so that gives me the time, especially now in the winters, laid off from work until springtime, I have all this free time to do what it's really interesting to me, you know. So, so I do spend a lot of my time doing this, and I still keep researching flat Earth, and I keep seeing things will pop up that they'll see something from the that might prove the Earth the globe, and I'll go, oh, geez, And then for a second I'll think like, oh, dang,
maybe I was wrong. But every time that's happened, and I'll dig more and more into whatever the subject is, like the twenty four hours sun or you know, the path of the constellations, whatever it might be. When you really research it all the way or let me as deep as you can feel like you can go, it all comes back to the same thing, and that's the Earth is flat.
Absolutely. And by the way, I'm so glad that you mentioned that because my next question was about as in most people, did did flutter bring you closer to God? And that that is one of the strongest pieces of evidence, as you said in your email, and that that is you know, probably ninety five percent of the people that we've interviewed over the last few years, Uh, that that's been the case.
Yeah, it's That's one thing I'd really like about the the flat earth community is that because people that uh, you know, people will mock you for religion too. Yeah, especially people like the same friend I referenced in earlier that you know, likes to just trust the experts. He hasn't nothing good to say about religion except for that anybody that believes in it is uh, in his opinion, Uh not intelligent.
Well, you know, we'll pray for that person. There's a lot of people out there, and that there's a lot of people who have gone through turmoil I've found, you know, talking to people offline. Uh though, those type of people that it seems to me not everybody, you know, everybody has their own story, but for a lot of people, they've gone through particularly extremely rough patches in their life. And they and they say, if there was a god, X,
Y or Z would not have happened to them. But then you try to get them to understand free will, and you know, do you if you want everything to be perfect, then God has to control every single aspect
of our lives. But we have free will, we have the opportunity, and with free will, people do make mistakes and they have this effect, the spider web effect that affects different people that I'm not going to get into very deep right now, but that's the one thing I try to tell to people is you know, you know, horrible things happen every single day around the world, but we have our free will, and unfortunately people use free will in evil ways all around this world.
Yeah, well said, yeah, I definitely will pray for my friend because he needs something to believe in. I don't understand how him, or just people in general, just are so content to go on about their life in blissful ignorance. I guess is like most people. They they got the few things that they think is important. Their their job, there, you know whatever, things that are all not important in
the grand scheme of things. But nobody wants to have their their routine or their a janet or whatever interrupted.
And nobody wants their ball taken away, right.
Right, perfect, perfect analogy.
There you go. We're closing in on our last few minutes. I wanted to give you an opportunity. If there was anything that you wanted to touch on that we haven't had a chance to yet, Please do.
Well. I guess to the to your fans listening to people that are on offense about things, do the research. Don't don't be so quick to judge when And I think it's important that you need to realize that we've all been taught and essentially brainwashed, especially if you've grown up in America, you definitely have, and so to unlearn
the the programming. I guess that that they've been feeding you is probably The hardest thing I know it was certainly was for me, is to start to question everything and then to finally decide to make up my own mind about things. Uh. That I think is the sad thing in today's world is that not enough people do at It's just in my experience anyway, most people that you're that I interact with or see or around me in everyday life just are going through the same routine.
And it's just it makes me feel sad for those people because I can't imagine uh being or living that way. Uh to where you just you are not open to any new ideas. You you know what you know, and things are the way they are and then and that's it. That's That's kind of how my my father is with this stuff too. He's you can't you can't teach him anything,
you know, because he's he's sixty five. He knows, he's he's lived longer, and he knows what about anything you're likely to bring up to him, and he's already got an opinion on it.
So he's set in his ways.
Absolutely. When I I guess before the flat Earth, I got into back to religion and then now you know, and more so spirituality, and so I tell, I tell my dad that you better get used to the idea that you're gonna live forever after you died, like you might want to consider working on your spirituality. And he goes, I'm spiritual, So.
I know where you're coming from exactly. It's UH, my my friend and I. When we go witnessing UH in Camden, Delaware, you know, we we talked to a guy he was probably in his eighties, and he was he was cursing every other word, not that cursing is a mortal sin or not that I my goodness, I was in the army for twenty four years, so I could I could use the F word as a noun, adjective, pronoun, verb. You know, That's how we talked back then. But you also realize that you have to lead by example, you
have to be better. And when I got out of the army, I changed my ways. But we were talking to this guy who was eighty and every other word was a curse word, and this that and the other thing. And then we handed him, you know, one of the Bible tracks, and he said, oh, I'm good. I go to church every Sunday. And that just kind of resonated me when you were telling me about your dad how
I'm spiritual. Right, there's and I don't mean to come off condescending by any stretch of the managing imagination, but everything you said hit home with me because I used to live superficial as well. And when I say superficial, that means prior to prioritizing sports teams that had no idea I existed, but I lived for them and and those type of things, running home, turing on the TV,
trying to catch whatever the latest thing is. And then you do realize and a lot of this io to flat Earth is that God is what when we say God is watching us, He's literally watching us. And and that that made me try to be a better person and kind of reprioritize my life. I hope that made sense.
No, absolutely, yeah, And I'm I don't know if it was this subject leading me back towards God or I or God leading me into this subject and then and then back to God. If that makes sense, I don't know. And that that's the that's the mystery, right, works in mysterious ways. We don't know, But I have a feeling there's a uh, a reason why I came across this and why I decided to get it, research it, and
then it changed my perspective on the world. When you realize that the Earth is flat and that it was put here by someone or something, you know, for people that don't want to give God the credit, you can't
deny that we're all here. And that's pretty wild if you think about it, like the uh the mystery, and you know that that's why they don't want you to know this stuff is because they want you to think you're on a spinning ball and that you're in an infinite cosmos and you're just a speck of dust, you know, in a huge universe in your life has no meaning.
But I guess that was the thing that when they say it's impossible that they would be able to keep up this deception like over the mass as they could be impossible. No, and because the stakes are as high as they get, they want you to separate from God, to be as far from God as possible. That's what they want.
Yeah, And it's so funny to think that how trivial I thought flat Earth once was many many moons ago to understanding that that could literally break the matrix if we got that knowledge out there, literally just shatter Satan's domain. But he knows, you know. They I think it was Nixon that said that, you know, I don't remember who said. But if you tell a big if I'm sorry, if you tell a lie big enough, they'll believe it. And this is one heck of a lie. And people buy
off on it. They're like, bro, we're spinning. And you even mentioned in your email you don't feel like you're on a ball that's spinning one thousand miles an hour. And it is time to start believing what you see, what you feel, what you taste, what you smell, versus what you're being told. And and I'm sorry, Andrew. This has been just a fantastic conversation and you've brought so many great points up during the course of this interview
and I can't thank you enough for your input. And I do want to give you the last few minutes to give us any closing thoughts.
Oh that's that's That's about all I got. I think I really appreciate you having me on. I've been a big fan of the podcast for but a year or so. Now listen to them wherever there's a new one. And you're doing You probably already know this, but you're doing God's work.
I really appreciate it. But and I say this, I try to remind everybody this, And as this is the last podcast for twenty twenty four, the next time we meet with a new guest, it'll be twenty twenty five, and we're entering an interesting timeline. With January twentieth right around the corner. It's more important than ever to remember what we were just talking about, getting closer to God, accepting Christ as as your Lord and savior, and whatever happens to you here on earth is trivial compared to
an eternity in heaven. Andrew, thanks again, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year's to you and your family.
My friend, same to you, George. Appreciate it all right.
Thanks again to everybody who has joined all our guests over the course of twenty twenty four. Thank you for continuing to make this such a fun podcast for me to be able to have this conversation every single week. Greatly appreciated. I appreciate all our emails, and again stop by the website, the flatterarthfiles dot com if you'd like to come on. Like Andrew did today. It is fe filesguest at gmail dot com. A safe new year to everyone.
God bless each and every one of you. You keep your head on a swivel until we meet again in twenty twenty five. We will see you.
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You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'am.