Episode 179: Flat Earth Conversation with Carmelo

The following presentation is a Del Marvis Studio's production.

When you look be on the sky, do you feel the poll question?

Why the stories.

Told and left behind in shadows where the truth we find? They built their tails on crafts and lines.

On theories they stake their designed.

Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. I'm your host, as always, George Hobbs. Hope everybody had a great weekend. We have a great guest ending by back to back guests from Australia this week. A great guest, just a plethora of information and looking forward to the conversation. Just two quick notes before we get started. Please do stop by the website. It is theflat earthfiles dot com.

Great?

Thanks George, thank you for having me on and for your kind words this morning. I love your podcast. It's always so positive, polite and on point.

Now I appreciate that.

And you know, with this podcast, it's really the guests that make the podcast. So a big tip of the cap to everyone who comes on and you know, spreads their message and talks about their journey.

Okay, so go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.

All right.

I'm a sixty eight year old retired primary school teacher. I've been a Christian for nearly forty years and have been married to my beautiful wife for over thirty five years. We're very blessed to have four wonderful adult children, all walking with the Lord and married. We have five adorable grandchildren and another on the way, and we attend a good, solid Baptist church not far away. As a family, of course,

There a lot.

So my wife and I love spending time with our family. We recently bought a motor home or an RV, and we do traveling up and down the coast, mostly at this point in between getting it repaired. We love gardening, me veggie gardening and my wife the other side, the flowering plants and things. We love meeting people, having coffee at cafes, eating out, going for walks, especially on beaches, although I love bushwalking or hiking up mountains which you'd probably call hills.

So the highest mountain in southeast Queensland is only.

Twelve to fifty meters or about four thousand feet high.

I love playing squash. Sorry you want to say.

Something, Oh no, no, I was just listening.

Say I told you I go fast. I love playing squash and going in the sauna after and it's my favorite place to witness the people as it's a captive audience and everyone's relaxed in the sauna.

There's been some very interesting times in there.

One thing I know for sure is Jesus is faithful in every situation.

His word is trustworthy, He's always good, and I.

Cannot I simply cannot imagine my life without the Lord. I just know where I was going before, and it wasn't good. So He's my firm foundation. His word is my light, liked my feet, and a guide to my path for life.

I have one caveat is I'm.

Almost certainly going to use other people's sayings and theories without giving them credit, because I've heard so many along the way, many of them on your podcast, and I can't remember who to attribute them from, so who to attribute them to?

So my story.

I grew up in a loving Spanish migrant family as nominal Catholics, but there were issues due to the Spanish War. I went to state schools and then left early and did lots of different jobs before training as a primary teacher.

I looked into the big.

Questions about this life early on, but I'm afraid partying took priority.

For many years.

I could talk about God to people, but talking about Jesus usually made me uncomfortable, as I felt guilty now about when I was about twenty six We would go to Fraser Island fairly often. It's a very beautiful island, the largest sand island in the world. And on one of these trips, we were swimming in the surf, even though we knew there were lots of sharks there, and one of my friends just disappeared. He was just right out in the surf and I called to him to

Than me and he wasn't touching the bottom.

Miraculously I got him in and the rest of us just kept partying on doing the things that partiers do. But he started talking about God and saying, I know, Oh, God's got something to do with this.

A year later, he's a Christian.

Another year later I hear the Gospel from him, because by this time I was living in the Northern Territory and didn't get to Brisbane very often. And then another year later I became a Christian in a Pentecostal church. And this church believed that each day of the Creation week in Genesis one could have been billions of years, and Cain supposedly married a Preadamic woman, but only about six thousand years ago. At the time, I quite liked this explanation, as it seemed to reconcile the Bible and

Yep, absolutely, yeah, okay, And.

They also believed and taught that the flood in Noah's day was only a localized blood.

I think that made less difference.

Still, I thought, how is that possible on a globe, That's what I was thinking, And the water is just going to spill out over the rest of it. But anyway, after some time of reading my Bible some years, I thought, I'm just not smart enough to understand how to reconcile Genesis one and how it works according to the secular scientific model, which we apparently believed in sync with.

But I trusted the church's interpretation.

And loved the Lord and the people there, and God had made some great changes in our lives. I eventually became a pastor of a small church in that denomination and love preaching and studying God's word.

More About four years.

Into that, I got challenged three times in two weeks that it might just be six ordinary days and a worldwide flood, and I gave the party lines straight up and down. But I did think maybe God's knocking up the door for me to study this out. So I thought, okay, let's study this out. But I got bogged down straight away. So one morning, the Lord led me to underline every worldwide term of the flood in Genesis six, seven and eight, and I just thought God's gone out of his way to make it clear.

It was the whole earth.

Every creature with the breath of life in its nostrils, under the whole heaven.

So that part was really simple.

But maybe two months later on very frustrated about the days of Creation, I prayed what I now call the dangerous prayer, and I recommend it to everyone. It was this, Lord, I don't care which way it is. I just want to believe the truth and I want to know it by the end of to day. And I wasn't being presumptuous or anything. I just wanted to get this over and done with. So that was nineteen ninety eight, early days of the internet searches, and I typed in Genesis

And oh boy, I was in for a ride the scriptures.

They brought out Exodus twenty, verse eleven, Moses rings the tablets of Stone, written with the finger of God down the mountain. That's Exitus thirty one, verses seventeen and eighteen. But verse twenty, Exitus twenty eleven says for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath and hallowed it. I

But of course it wasn't Jesus, it was wrong. It was me.

So that was a very interesting time. And then you've sort of stuck with, well, what am I going to do with this? So we devoured answers and genesis material looking for evidence in the world around.

Us, and our faith quickly grew, and.

I no longer feared that someone would come up to me with something that was definite proof of macroevolution, like and this is one that i'd heard, antibiotic resistance bacteria. I thought, oh boy, now that can result from a loss of information in the genetic code or were rearranging of the DNA. But no new information can come by itself. It needs intelligence or intervention to add new information to the genome. So we eagerly taught our children this newfound

I sent it to the church hierarchy and it got this.

Very quick, short, inadequate, and illogically answered response. I said, I spoke to the senior pastor in Canberra, where we were based from, and he said, well, you can keep pastoring just as long as you don't talk about creation or the flood. And straight away the scripture was quickened to me. The Word of God is not chained. I wasn't prepared to keep pastoring under those constraints, and we decided to leave the church.

And it was just the easiest thing to.

Do, and we moved to Brisbane, where I'd grown up. But we knew the truth. It had been a great awakening. We had no doubts, and we felt a lot closer to the Lord. I don't know if you know that song they say that making up is.

Hard to do?

Yeah, of course, yeah.

Well I think I've got it here in my heading is they say that waking up is hard to do.

Indeed, I know you're a wrestling fan or word at least.

When I was a kid, my father built a boat for a man whose son worked at Channel nine, where world Championship Wrestling was which we used to watch.

She's a family and just barrack for the good guys.

Well, I had to go to the toilet and they took me through the wrestlers chaine rooms and then they all were huddled over each other looking through the window at the wrestling.

I thought, what's this. This isn't right.

The good guys and bad guys don't mix, and it was like, bah, how terrible.

We kept watching wrestling anyway. They're very good athletes. I like what they do.

Yeah, it's like a movie.

You have to you know, what do they say, suspend disbelief in order to get it? Because even in the seventies and eighties you kind of knew that it was, but when they come out and say it and you know, it takes away. But yeah, for us, I think it was nineteen eighty eight. I don't know if you're familiar with these names, the Iron Chic and Hacksaw.

Jim dug In.

No I know Hogan, yeah, no, hack.

Saw Jim Duggan. Oh, okay, So they it was a good guy and bad guy. They were going through their feud and they were travel them together smoking a joint and they got arrested and it made news around the country that this good guy and bad guy, and these were very big figures in the eighties that they were riding together and partying together. So that was kind of when they started to peel back the layers of the onion and people who still.

I don't know about you, George, I wouldn't like to get thrown on the on the map from the.

Distances they Yeah, the outcomes are predetermined, but they still take a beating.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm not doing that.

So that's my first waking up. I'll come to another one later. But through the years I heard of lots of conspiracy theories. Some I believe, but mostly they just didn't seem to matter, like keep your heirloom seeds as.

They're hybridizing all things.

Yes, sir, I don't know, Okay, big corporations, Preemason's Illuminati, Fabian Society, Fabian society in the US.

Yes, where is it in the UK? I just did a podcast on it within the last six months. But there's it's up there with the the Trilateral Commission and the Foreign Council on Relations, and you hear of.

All those names. You know, through the years, you hear them and think, oh, that sounds interesting. Maybe they are bad, but I was too busy working and raising a family, and generally I believe the world.

Was mostly a good place.

Oh dear, look now, how could I have thought that? So a couple of years before we came to a literal six day creation belief. Research into childhood jabs revealed overwhelming evidence to me that all was not well in what we put in our kids' arms. The part that really stood out was the personal anecdotal evidence collected during this research. Our church was one where there were miracles. They were well known and they were well publicized. And

And then all.

These other people tell us stories, similar stories, another one that someone had been resuscitated several times, and others less serious but nonetheless still significant. So that was another wake up, and the years rush on and we come to COVID. As a teacher, I was mandated to be vaccinated or not work on campus.

After listening to Creation Ministries. Do you know them?

I'm not sure if I'm familiar with them or not.

Well, they split from Answers and Genesis, so they were both.

They're both were.

Based here originally, and they're all Queenslanders, and Creation Ministries send the Creation magazine worldwide, so they're quite a significant organization.

But they were very pro vax, and I was listening to other pro.

Vax voices and I was weighing up which one I should get to keep my job. I was close to retirement, but I didn't think I could survive a couple of years.

Without work anyway.

I had someone in my ear telling me not to get any So finally I thought, right, I know how to fix this. I'm going to go on the government website, because at this point I trusted the government, and I checked the adverse effects of these vaccinations and that was just straightaway, end of story, no vaccination for me. I couldn't believe, George how many severe adverse effects and death were already recorded in the early days of the vaccinations terrible.

So yeah, And of.

Course the naysay is so that correlation and causality aren't the same thing, and I agree, But when you've got overwhelming figures of it, you just go maybe there is correlation anyway, I leave that part out.

I waited to see what happened.

Well, yes, I caught fluvord, slept for two days, and my doctor gave me a six month exemption.

Let my boss know.

And towards the end of my long I took long service leap, and towards the end of that long service leave, I was given two days a week to work from home, doing distant education for kids that learn from home. So where was God in all this, waiting patiently to show his hands? I started getting nervous as my long service need was running out, knowing that we couldn't survive on forty percent of my income.

I prayed about it.

Sorry, George, Wait, no, no, I was just good, yeah, go ahead, Uh.

Yeah, okay, So I prayed about it and I lost my spot. I've got lots of notes so that I don't go backwards and forwards too much.

And that day, that's sorry.

That Sunday at church the visiting preacher prayed for me to be at peace.

Because I was still anxious about it.

This is the God who gave us a complete peace that past understanding when someone burnt her house down many years earlier.

Now I'm not by nature a relaxed fellow. I'm energetic and go, go go.

A house burned out, deliberate arson and we just had this peace. It was just irrelevant, but we just got on with life. But here, oh, no, forty percent my income? How's God going to deal with this? Open my laptop on Monday and there's an email from my boss, say, and he sent it on Friday, by the way, So the answer was already there to the prayer before I prayed it, saying I could come on campus if I

And I didn't lose a day's pay that year. It was just like, praise the Lord.

How good is God just waiting quietly for his nervous nelly to come crying I need help more that Look, a lot of my colleagues did lose their jobs and some of them got them back, but never many many many never returned. So I woke up to the scandemic through all this, and more recently the evidence of excess mortality and serious things like turbo cancers and watching fit athletes collapse on playing fields. It's like only people are seeing it, but people aren't exposed to it.

It's all wonderful stuff.

You go, I was waiting for you to go.

Yeah, yeah, see, just.

A couple of things. I do recall the jeez, Creation Ministry is international. I do recall now because I think the gentleman his name was Carl Wheeland, and he had partnered with ken Ham. Because ken Ham is the gentleman who runs Genesis. I'm sorry answers in Genesis now ken Ham is No, he's the gentleman. I think it's in Kentucky that recreated the arc.

That's right, Yeah, he's there.

He's a Queensland school teacher, primary school teacher, and many of the people that had worked in that organization before the split ended up at the school.

I was in Christian.

Schooling, so so I got to hear a few inside things and just go, oh, I'm glad they're inside and people outside aren't hearing them. But you know, things go wrong and we need to work through as best we can.

It's very interesting because our friend who we had on the podcast probably a year and a half ago, Josh from the Founded Earth Brothers.

Yeah, he went down like him.

Oh yeah, he's he's there. They're fantastic.

He went down there and he did the whole tour and the expo, and you know, it's great that Ken does support the literal six day you know, creation story. But he at the end of the seminar he was at, he wanted to ask a few questions about biblical cosmology, and they shut him down.

They won't let him talk about it.

Yeah.

I really enjoyed listening to was it Joel a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, yeah, Joe on your podcast.

Yeah, it's a lovely spirit. It was just a really enjoyable listen.

But she said she read the book by Danny Faulkner waiting to see how he dealt with disproving the curvature calculation.

And never did in the whole book. Yep. So I've got other beats with him, but I won't mention them here.

And the other thing with Carl Wheeland he was, if I remember correctly, he was a doctor, like he.

Was in the front.

Yeah, that's what I met with him after coming up from Vega to here, because I thought my.

Future was in in that ministry, and.

I did support them for a while and went out and stood with their speakers and that.

But my ministry ended up.

Being in a classroom in a Christian school, and I just have.

Loved that for so long. But I'll go back to where I was up to.

Sure, So generally speaking, at this stage, I wouldn't believe in big conspiracies like nine to eleven or learn the landings. Hey, I got sent home from school to watch the landing, and you know what, I've still got the newspaper from that afternoon. I don't know how they got those photos back to Earth, George, because there was no connection in the middle of space.

Nobody thought about it. They were just so excited.

We would office. I look at that now and just laugh.

But I couldn't buy into those sort of conspiracies because I could never believe that lots of people could keep a secret that big. I did not understand compartmentalization. It was something I was about to learn about. So about this time, some friends told us, we've gone completely kooky and believe the Earth is flat. Now, I thought that was an appropriate way to introduce such such a ridiculous statement.

The truth was both.

There were the usual suspects, pictures of Earth, which turned out to be either the.

Fish eye lenses.

When I was typing this, when I read back it said fishy lenses. I thought, yeah, that's pretty true too, fishie or fishy yea, or photoshopped images Fuco's pendulum, which it turns out needs someone to get it started. Absolutely, and if they were if they were true, George, all the cranes we see would have pendulum.

Motion, indeed, But that's not the case.

Where we walk down down at the Gold Coast, there's a couple of cranes there. When we get there, they haven't started work, and the cranes are always still, and I like the joke and them like, look, I think.

They're moving, but they're not. They're just still.

The regular suspect the curvature of the Earth, which I thought i'd seen from an aeroplane, but I really tried hard to make me see it, make myself see it. It turns out boats going over the horizon and coming back can be seen for many, many miles with a telescope lens, and I was seeing lots of these in an attempts to convinced me the glow model is just that a model.

Only. Oh well, they weren't trying to convince me of that. Yeah.

Probably the one I enjoyed most much later was and you might have seen this. One of the earliest high altitude photos was over a place called Mercedes in Argentina, and from there I think it was maybe an altitude of twenty three thousand or thirty one thousand feet. They could see the Andes Well, these things on maps, found the distance, did their curve modern calculations. It turns out, George, if the Earth is a globe, they would only see the peaks above sixteen thousand feet.

But the article clearly said that they could see the Andes mountains.

There's lots of peaks over sixteen thousand, But you're only seeing peaks if the Earth's globe, and they shared a foot of the whole and these range. So it turns out I had already seen many evidences through my life and thought about these things without realizing it that I should have been challenging the globe model. One of my favorite things going up mountains is to see how far

I could see too far. So you know.

Marks ample last week about seeing surface paradise, Well that wasn't enough for me. I go down to the beach. I can see those buildings, but that's not far enough. I've got to convince hardened skeptics about this. So I would keep looking, and in winter you can see the next two islands after surface Paradise, called North Stradbroke and South Stradbroke.

You should not be able.

To see North Stradbroke at the distance it is, but there it is plain as day. I even spoke to an engineer, I'm one of the lookouts up there, and he said to me, no, that island you can see is Morton Island, which is even further away.

I think he might be wrong, but he was.

An engineer and understood flat what's it called plain surveying?

He said, oh, no, that that allows the curvature. But it doesn't. They don't.

They don't allow the curvature in that anyway, this is a better one.

Are you familiar with? Ularu in Australia?

Said that one more time.

Laru, who used.

To be known as Airs Rock. It's in the center of Australia, a massive monolith. We used to say it was the biggest monolith in the world. Apparently it isn't, but it's very big.

The giant formation that looks like maybe it used to be a tree. Sorry, the giant rock formation in the middle of Yes, yeah.

That one.

So back in nineteen eighty one or something. I climbed it with a whole stack of us. We're on a coach tour from where I went to college, and the coach tour guide said, see those mountains over there. They're in Western Australia. And last year I checked in my

There's just no humidity in the atmosphere. Interesting, huh.

Indeed, And I think back to when, like I've mentioned this many times going up to whether it's Pike's Peak or the Minitou Manitou Spring incline, which you know you could just see forever. And so I want to ask you this, Why is it so contentious to speak someone, especially here in twenty twenty four, where there's such a large distrust for government around the world, so many people

George, I think it's both and more because you know what cognitive dissonance is, and for any that are listening who don't know what it is is your brain believes something, but your eyes are telling you something different. We don't like that feeling, and I think people do have fear. I think it's flatter day.

Does he say they don't want us to take their ball from them?

That's right, all right?

So I lost my soccer ball when I was in grade six.

We're talking fifty plus years. I still remember that this kid took my ball, which was my birthday present, and when he gave it back and had a hole in it, I was pretty upset.

So I don't think people want to lose their ball.

But the problem is they could only see over that curve of the ball to see the truth and to see where God is. And I do come to this in a minute, they're going to go, wow, how did I hang on to that.

For so long?

I'll give you another example is from our base side suburb of Wellington Point, I can see to the northern end of Morton Island.

I think it's forty two kilometers.

I did run out of time to find all my figures, but that means the curve, if it's really there, would be one hundred and eighty meters even taking away my great height. I'm really about five foot seven or eight, but I always allowed two to three meters.

It would be nearly six hundred feet under the curve.

I like saying over the curve, but it should not be visible that far away. And there it is Plainer's day. The next thing, airplane travel should be faster in one direction than the other.

Years before, when I.

Was still a true Globe believer, my squash buddy, who's a really smart guy. He's got a master's in computer science. He's an engineer. He flew to Western Australian back and I asked him genuinely if one of the directions was much faster, and I was really disappointed, but he told me that it was only about twenty minutes difference. I couldn't understand that. I said, why is that? He said, I think there's tailwinds in one direction. It didn't make sense.

And time permitting will come back to that because I've got the notes further down. So back to my friend. She kept trying to get me to listen to this guy.

Pastor Ray mcberry from Pinnacle Baptist Church in Georgia, USA. So I was just fighting it. Like I said, I came to it kicking and screaming. But I listened to the first one, and you know what, I got my defenses up. Look, the Bible does use metaphorical language.

It does use.

Phenomenal, phenomenalogue, phenomenological language, like we see the sunrise, we see the sunset right every so often.

That's probably all it is. Somewhere around.

Then she started sending me tiktoks, and that's a lot easier to deal with one cognitive dissonance at a time.

So I listened to some more of the sermon series.

And I kept reading my Bible every day. But that's a dangerous thing to do. One day I read Revelation nineteen seventeen and I knew I was in trouble. It read and I saw an angel standing in the sun, and I go, oh boy, no way, you can see an angel standing in the sun ninety three million miles away.

That's a good point. I'd never thought of that. That's another verse that hasn't come up in this undone.

From that point, I didn't believe it all, but I was undone. I thought I'm finished. My arguments have to just fall the way. And you know the other one, George Jesus said the stars will fall to the earth. It was another one I thought, see, I said, I said this to this person trying to convince me. I said, look, even that one star will just destroy the earth completely because it's so many, eight hundred and sixty times bigger than the earth.

Now looking at me like a stupid they didn't understand.

But that's what the globe model says, that the stars out there are so much bigger than the earth. But if we consider that they're actually luminaries or little lights in the firmament, that's a different story.

Anyway. I think one of our problems.

As Christians, especially in this busy age that we live in, is as we read the Bible, we don't always go deep with what it's saying. What I mean is we don't always realize the full ramification of the truth of the statements.

Now a good example of this, and did you in you Wayne? Gary? Wayne?

I sure did. The Genesis six conspiracy.

Aah.

I bought his book, but I haven't started listening to it because it's so big. But I've listened to a couple of other podcasts with him on it, and like did he go deep? He's quite got nine hundred page.

A couple of verses, a couple of verses from Genesis six.

I just go to the guys a maniac. But the other one, one of the verses said, unless you do something about.

This, you don't see it.

And this is when when they're building the Tower of Babel, God says, nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. What is God saying they could get to the firmament? See, because Genesis eleven four says, come, let us build ourselves a city and the tower with its top in the heavens, and let us name for ourselves. Let us make a name for ourselves unless we be dispersed over the face of the earth. And the word for heaven there is the same one as in Genesis one,

To the firmament by building. Wow, that's deep.

Hi, that's really deep. And this is something that I've tried to mention before to people locally and on a few of these episodes like if you support NASA, it's like, literally, our government is trying to break through the firmament and have been trying to do so since Operation Dominic in the late nineteen fifties. And if we just stand by, if we believe that, and there are there are verses to support you know, exactly what you just said. Why

Are they really trying to break through the firmament?

Now?

I believe, you know, God is all knowing. He knew a long time ago that this, you know, we would be here at this point. And I don't think it's you know, that the firmament is able to be broken. However, the evil people who run this government and around the world are trying, you know, to you know, following Satan's orders, trying to get up there and de through God's That's what I believe.

I believe exactly the same thing.

And I can tell you, as a person that believed in billions of years from a simple reading that says and there was day and night day one that what you do, or what one does, or what some people do is they read it, but they automatically converted, and they converted to whatever belief or truth they have.

So that they don't get cognitive dissonance with the word of God. So in that.

Respect, they're actually really disobedient to the word of God, preserving their mental well being by going, I can't deal with the opposite. Can't be one day, can't be ordinary days?

Anyway, I'll keep going, shall I?

Absolutely?

Okay? So we don't.

Always take the time needed to check out a story in more detail by checking the cross references and other information available. Now, I'm extremely wary of Bible study notes and men's opinions.

Now I'll tell you why.

I write lots of notes in my Bible, and as I keep going back over and I find notes that I've written that I now go, oh, that's just not true. That's actually simply an error, and it's unbelief. And so now I go, I'm not going to look at study notes unless it's for something like a genealogy or something.

Fear if you are and now'm going to quote scripture.

I'm reading it diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed. Rightly dividing the word of truth. That's to sympathy to fifteen. Now, one of the reasons I came kicking and screaming to Flat Earth is I didn't want to be a flat earther. I want people to think I'm sensible and logical and right. So that's pride, that's ego, and that's not I've got to rightly divide this because who I've got to impress is not the guy next door.

Not my boss, not my pastor.

I've got to impress the living God that I have set myself to study his word rightly, and I want to hear and I'm sure you do too, George, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners do. We want to hear the words well done, good and faithful servant.

I just go that's the only words I want to hear that's.

Right, one hundred percent.

And one thing, you know, as you're talking about this, I appreciate when when you sent me your notes that you and I think this is probably where you may be leading to is when you were setting verses, you also cited Strong's concordance.

On many of the words.

Yes, and that's very important because, like you said, there's a lot of people who will read It's at words have meanings, and if there's a word you're not familiar with, there's a chance it's in Strong's concordance. And like I wish thirty forty years ago, you know, I took the time to just look at the word firmament, which you know I've read Genesis a thousand times and it wasn't until five or six years ago I took the time to understand it.

I discarded it.

You know what because one of the answers, no one of the creation ministries. Guys who's got a doctor? He was the New Zealand chess master. Surely he's a smart guy. He said, I'm happy to go that this fermament is just the sky above us, and the clouds of the water is above the firmament.

And that was easy to deal with, but easy to deal with doesn't make it true anyway. So now I'm really careful about who I listened to.

I have this analogy that I use, and it's the Picasso analogy. My mother lived in a house I don't know whether it was next door to his house or a couple of houses away before the Spanish Civil War. But I didn't think much of his art, even though I've seen some of it when I was in Spain. I read that at the end of his life, he said, I've spent all my life trying to do art like a child.

And then I go, ding ding, Now I get it.

I get what you're trying to do, and now I appreciate your art because we can't strip ourselves of the things we've learned and who we've become.

As an adult.

But he's tried to do that, so I've gone I'm going to try and do the same with everything I know, and as that everything's on the table, including God's word, I'm going to go to God's word like I've never seen it before and say, what is God communicating here? I think God clearly credentials himself by saying every word is God breathe. I think the spirit of God definitely confirms to us that we are children of God if

Indeed, have you done something like that?

Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely, not easy though.

Is it.

No, it's it's really not.

You have to be disciplined and buckle yourself up and oh yeah, you really do. But it all goes back to what you just said. You know, well done, my servant. That's what you want to hear. That's what this journey is all about. And we're commanded and we're all imperfect, we're all flawed, we're all sinners right yes, oh yeah, of course, but we just do the best we can.

Yeah, yeah, that's in the bubble. Okay, we're in the world, but not of it. And that's how we should be.

Yeah, that's right.

Okay, we can't get loving.

These things absolutely.

So I have a question for.

Your listeners, how much time are you prepared to study God's word to rightly divide it on this topic. So God introduces himself in Genesis. He introduces himself to us, and I look this up just this morning. The seven eleven rule says you get seven seconds to make a good impression, and people will make eleven impressions of you.

So let's apply that to God.

The first seven seconds of Genesis destroys the Big Bang premise that everything started from nothing with no cause. It can't and doesn't happen on any scale ever seen. Therefore, the whole Big Bang theory should be thrown out, as it starts with error.

How is it then going to find truth? I probably should mention that it's a Jesuit. It's a Jesuit priest.

Who introduced it nearly a hundred years ago, supporting Einstein's theory.

I love saying this to people.

Einstein said that he was vinced you couldn't measure the movement of the Earth from any.

Optical experiment on Earth.

And then I say to them, do you know how he did get to get the earth moving. I say, like any good school teacher, he filled the blackboard with numbers and equations and said, dah, the earth moves.

There you go. You're talking about George's Lamita, right, yes.

Yeah, yeah, so it was about one hundred years ago.

Right. The Catholic Church is actually happy they introduced that.

Oh yeah, and it even goes back.

You know they really kicked it off during Reformation with Copernicus, right, he was the most pushing it.

Well, that's right. Yeah, So I like, do you call it the evil Trio? I sometimes call him a number.

Yeah, it's you know, the evolution, the Big Bang and heliocentrism.

So so then in Genesis, God tells us where made in his image, so we can throw out macro evolution. It's based on the lie that random chance on event has led us through a steady progression of development. And this is an answers in Genesis thing from go to you via the zoo. We're not evolved from monkeys.

We throw that out. It's not right.

And then the other one is what you just said, the Copernican theory of the sun going around us. You know what I say, to people, is we see the moon go around the earth. We said the moon goes around the earth. We see the sun go around the Earth, and we say we go around the sun. They both do the same thing, Yet we distinguish why would.

We do that because we've been programmed to do it.

Yeah.

And the one thing that gets me, and again it goes back to people will believe anything. And Bernee proved that time and time again. Out of all the things we talk about, right and one of them is the whole moonlight theory, where you know, the sun ricochets off the moon and the Moon sends the light down. That's what moonlight really is, even though once again the Bible

Yeah?

I mean, you know the larned landing, there's no dust, none, no dust create or anything. My son has a droning business and his little twelve inch drone has four two and a half inch props and I go out and help him from time to time. When he takes off and when he lands, it sends leaves and dust flying and what that ten thousand pound trust lun landing didn't send a single speck of dust anyway.

Mmmm yeah.

I wonder the people who were directly involved, whether it was a polo or eleven or whichever one's the ones through the seventh you know, the early seventies, if they truly realized the impact and the misleading of people away from God at that time, did they really understand the gravity, for lack of a better way, that they were, you know, the deceptiveness that they were putting upon the people of the world.

Look, I think and I know you know a lot more about how these things work, George. I think they had something on these guys. And like the Capricorn one movie, Look, if you threaten the man that you're going to kill him, and he can protect.

His family by dying, he should go just do it.

But if you threaten him they're going to kill your family, then that man has to go, well, I go, I have to protect my family. And I think that's what they did, just like in the movie.

I agree.

And look, you know a funny thing this is I'm moving off the topic a bit.

When Trump said that they were going to make space force, I think that's what he made. There's a little clip of it, and buzz Aldron's next to him, and Trump says, and in the years.

They had, we're going to look back and say, how did we ever do it? Without space? You know the what I'm talking about?

And buzz All's eyes open wide like sources.

Oh.

You know, if you hear that funny Space Force logo upside down, it looks like baffleman.

Oh dear.

And you know now that you can see these things, you see them everywhere. When you can't see them, you won't believe that people could do those things right in your face and laugh at you. But you know what, I love the Bible because it says God holds them in derision, so he's going to have the last laugh. And I don't mean that in any mean way, but he holds them in derision because they mock him openly and God doesn't respond.

He just patiently waits. A little example of that.

I keep wondering how does God stay patient with the world going to hell the way it is? And I think of a good teacher in a classroom if they get a phone call that they have to take, Like I said, boss or whatever, they'll take the phone call, and sometimes the class will use that opportunity to start getting up and moving around and talking to their friends,

Time, absolutely, And I'm so glad that you brought those things up. You know, we talk about being able to see and not really noticing prior. Obviously, the NASA symbol has the serpent's tongue on it.

And if you take.

Give me a second here, so the Greek word for serpent is opie. The Greek word for tongue is glass. And if you've read Psalms one, verse three, it says they have sharpened their tongue like a serpent. Adders poison is under the lips.

And who okay, yeah, it's.

And again it's interesting if you take the time and all these things are always Greek Apollo, Artemis, you know.

Oh yeah, you know all of that. You know what.

They have questions, why are we doing Greek and Roman gods and goddesses.

Yep, and we have obelisks and and even the state. How about medical symbol the snake and the staff, the rod of a Scleppius. I think it is it is associated with Asclepius. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but that's.

The great you know what you're talking about.

Yeah, that's the Greek god of healing.

So all of these things, through medical, through NASA, through pharmaceuticals, through NASA, and their deceptions, it all goes back to the Greeks and Greek mythology.

But the Greeks have had a massive influence on now thinking in society.

Oh sure, Now I have another scripture.

And I used to have this on my wall. I don't have many up here anymore.

The Book of Proverbs says it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search it out.

And you know, what we are, kings and priests to our God.

We should be looking searching out things anyway. I can't actually remember the moment when I thought, oh, it's all true, but these are the things that pointed there. God put a firmament over the Earth, and it's not a long way away. Water at rest finds its own level. That means seventy one percent of the earth is level, at least seventy one.

Percent of the Earth. And you've got some states there that I've seen. They're flatter than pancakes. Ohio is that one of them? Really?

Yeah?

And Kansas is the big one.

Right, of course, Dorothy, Yes, exactly.

Photos of the Earth are not trustworthy evidence of what the scripture says, and the Bible of firms the Earth is stationary.

The sun goes around the Earth has stated in the Bible.

And I've been observing double rainbows for many years, thinking recently that the second rainbow was like God saying his word is doubly to be trusted.

It's not He's not going to flood the earth again.

And then I learned that the second rainbow is actually inverted. It's like a reflection of what George, what would it be a reflection of maybe the firmament.

Oh of course, yeah. And it's it's shaped.

You know the shape of the rainbow would reflect the firmament as well.

Right, I know I've recently seen that fittest flat Earth.

I remember the first time he came on your broadcast on the podcast, thinking, oh, this guy's nice.

He's a nice guy.

Boy, he's gone a long way, hasn't here Now? Oh why he's got some crazy ideas. But you know what, I'm not prepared to go that's too crazy on the table and keep looking at it.

That's right.

Another one, the New Jerusalem.

When it comes down to Earth, it's twenty two hundred kilometers it's fourteen one hundred miles square. Well, if you put that on the globe, it's going to be a sea saw.

Yep.

Well, I don't think God's going to give.

The New Jerusalem a sea saw, especially because it's the same height up, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I know you didn't sleep for two weeks, but I.

Remember waking up in the middle of the night going, what a deception, what a con job? Earth's not a clobe. It was like it was just staggering. I no longer believed it was a clobe, but I can hardly believe that. I wasn't believing it. And I'm going, oh, no, I'm going to be a flat earth. I don't want to be a flatter.

Kicking and screaming all the way in welcome all the way right to the end.

And by the way, was so close. Sorry, George, you go no, what gear was that when you became a flatter?

Oh? Last year?

Only just last year, Okay, but I've gone hard, yeah you have.

And do you know what Joe El said?

It's all good like learning about the earth and learning about God's creation.

It's all joy.

Well maybe it was another maybe it was another person on your podcast before.

It's so much fun, it is, it really is.

And it's amazing people who have never even done a podcast before and never been behind a microphone before and just blow it, just absolutely crush it and bring so much information. And the most important thing with this is, you know, I think a lot of people feel desolate alone, thinking that am I the only person who thinks this way? And then they've heard, you know, almost two hundred people over the last two years, and well there are obviously

What, Yeah, I keep running across them.

Like we saw this yard out the front of where we go walking around the lake close by giving away some pots.

So we go back and we're chatting to it.

She's a nice lady about my age and which is a really friendly conversation. And in the end, I said about the state election that was coming up, I said, you know what, me and I might just put research flat Earth on the ballot sheet.

She turns out to be a flat earth or and a Christian. So we've become good friends with her.

We haven't seen her for a little while, but it's just like there are people everywhere and she is fairly isolated, so it was good to make friends with her. Anyway, I've got more things, shall I keep going?

Yeah, I just want to make sure I have a list of your things too. I want to make sure you have time to speak about the short season.

Ah, maybe we could leave that till another time.

Okay, No, that's fine. It's just.

I can probably cover it fairly quickly. Probably the main one about the short season. Why I don't believe it's the short season is it says they will come up to the beloved city of the City of the Saints, the Camp of the Saints.

Well, I don't think there's a place on.

Earth where there's a beloved city which is the Camp of the Saints, and the smoke of her To meant, I'll babble and we'll go up forever and ever.

We don't see that unless they're hiding at Antarctica. I don't know. I hadn't thought of that.

Oh wow, that's you just dropped another nugget for me to research.

But I don't think the beloved faiths are in Antarctica.

I don't know anyway we can if we get time, Yeah, i'd I'd like to mention a few other things, but that's the two I remember at the top of my head. You know where I like to go with conversations with people that I don't know if they're Christians or not.

I don't know. Sorry, If I know they're not Christians.

I say, if you could see into heaven, just up above us, you would see Jesus standing at the right end of the throne of God. And I believe you could extend these arms out sideways and say, this is how much I love you, and he would show you the holes in his hands where he paid for your sins, and he calls to you, come to.

Me now, going back to coming kicking and screaming.

As soon as I believe that it was flat, I straightaway accepted all the conspiracy theories like nine to eleven and NASA and JFK.

It just was. It was just like it was there. I go, I don't know how, but and I go wow.

And so I've been learning lots about that, but I don't want to go too long there. It feels like it's easy to see the lies and to see through the lies.

So there were lots of questions and just as many answers. It's such an amazing journey.

You know what, we stopped watching I feel like we stopped watching TV almost straight away. Ye stop watching my beloved football games on a Friday night, and I said, down afternoon, if I could, I'll never look back.

We canceled Netflix. What a good day that was.

We study God's word, We study science, we study information history. We read, we play cards or board games. We talk together, and we do lots of walking. Life's become a lot more simple and a lot easier.

And you've gotten that propaganda machine out of your head.

Oh.

I do believe it makes your mind clearer.

You don't have people talking at you all day long telling you what to believe, from the news cycle to the Beganda in Hollywood, et cetera. It's it's a game changer walking away from that stuff.

Oh yeah. So sometime after this, not long.

I opened my phone and Spotify said, you might like to listen to flat Earth Files podcast. Oh and ha, so Spotify is listening as well as the phone. Great, I will listen. I went back to number one, Why the Lie?

And I listened. George, I loved it, and I just kept listening.

Every time I was in the car, I would binge on Flat Earth Files. It was a sad day when I caught up and had to wait days and days.

For the next podcast.

But I love the people you've brought on so some of the some of the things that have been just real game changes past the Dean Nodle. I don't agree with everything he says, but the forty four government documents approved flat Earth.

I love his reasoning.

Right, he was standing for governor of Alabama.

It was Alabama, wasn't it right? Yes, I believe it was yep, yep, yep.

And he says, I'm going to have something as a safeguard. They try and take my children, say you're a crazy plat earther. Well, the government says the Earth's flat, and you go whow. I've told people this that NASA has documents that outline that the Earth is flat, and they say, I don't believe it. And they'll look at it and say, but you don't believe NASA got to the moon. How can you believe this? These are technical manuals. It's a different story.

Yep.

But people won't believe things if it's just going to do their head in anyway.

Flat Earth Banjo. Have you had him on your podcast? No?

I have not.

I've chatted with him briefly. He's actually the guy who wrote the sixteen Emergency.

Landings at Proof lat Earth.

What a great book.

Yeah, what a great guy too, Now, yes he is.

He's a lovely guy.

I used to use the Taiwan to Los Angeles emergency landing flight and then I looked up their circuit, that the great circuit route that they fly, and they have that route going very close to Alaska.

All right, I'm.

Prepared to concede things and go, I won't use that anymore, like I won't use the nineteen fifty eight Encyclopedia Britannica saying there's a dome above the earth. That's actually not a good one for flatters. It's youth because it is talking about a geographic feature of the dome.

At thirteen thousand feet. They weren't.

I don't believe they're highlighting a firmament. Also, I don't use that ever anymore anyway. So this la sorry, Taiwan to La. I looked up to go if they're flying straight across and they're flying just above Hawaii, to go to Alaska's over four thousand kill me is what's that two and a half thousand miles more than two and a half thousand miles.

Out of the way.

But they're great circuit route they call a circuit or circle route.

I think it's a circle route, right.

The great circle route. I go, okay, I'll concede that.

But the one that flatber Banjo started with and as a person with a master's degree in emergency management of aeroplane services, was the soccer team from Brazil from Rio flying to Sydney Australia. Why would they fly to la first? Makes no sense at all unless you look at a flat Earth.

Map and it's the straight line.

And when I saw those things, I'm going, oh really, it was like wow, I can't believe this.

Now you have had Vicar Dras on your show, haven't you? Who was that Vicar drasif?

Yes?

Yes, yes, in the Chemical Realm.

Yep, that's an amazing piece of machinery. There's just outstanding founded brothers Fladder Dave already mentioned Plato times. There's so many people, and one of your I think she was one of the first Australians you had on mentioned the Helio Sorcery documentary.

That's a really good documentary.

Those guys just lived down the road a bit further away than marks down at Gold Coast. Okay, but the best thing, the best thing has been taking God's word as absolute.

Truth, about reinterpreting it. That's right now.

I know I make fun of being a spiritual giant, but I said to the Lord one day, I'm really going to believe your word for what it says.

Right, And here I am. I may as well have run off to Google.

I read where Jesus return every guy's going to see him, And I go, no, that just doesn't work, because he has stood big. I just what are we going to see him on our phones on TV? And here I am thinking, I'm going to believe Jesus straight away the first issue of.

Maybe some problem. I crumble and I go, I don't know how that works.

The angels in the Book of Acts say this, Jesus is going to return in the same way went up. I'm thinking, well, there's one guy going up in the in the sky from Jerusalem and he just appeared into the clouds pretty much straight away. And the next day I read this verse and it just came up in my Bible reading.

When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with these.

Mighty angels in flaming fire, and I was went, oh, Lord, I'm so I don't think it's going to be exactly the same way. He will come down in the same manner, but he's going to have a host of angels and he's going to be in flaming fire. I have to believe the word that every eye is going to see him.

Now.

Did I didn't mention my squash buddy before?

Did I? Briefly about him flying to Western Australia.

No, no about that.

I think I skipped past it. Well, a few years back. We've been playing squash for over twenty years. A few years back he flew to Western Australia, and when he came back, I said, was it faster in one direction? He says, not only about twenty minutes. Now, he's an engineer, he's a smart guy. I'm really I'm genuinely disappointed because I thought, well, if the Earth is spinning at where we are, seven to eight hundred miles an hour, over eleven hundred kilometers an hour, he should have been able

Oh hang on, I've jump to where and now believe he couldn't explain it.

He couldn't explain why the flights were roughly the same distance. It was wind speed that made it twenty minutes faster. Now I've even gotten two convoluted here. My argument with him last year when he went again, was a very different argument because at first I was just disappointed at

How did we ever believe this work?

That is the big question. How did just we just buy into it hook line and sinker. And if you remember the propaganda from the it was like the nineteen seventy eight Superman movie with Christopher Reeve when he tries Lois Lane and her car goes into there and he flies around the earth and gets it spinning the other way to go back in time. Oh, I remember that he had all these little things that are just planted

He can't six thousand years, and I don't think he sleeps, No, No, he is resolved to do his worst.

Yep.

And the Bible says that he sees the whole world. And I often say this to people, how does he deceive the whole world? He can't deceive the whole world. God's not real because millions of people believe in God. He can't deceive us that God's word can't be trusted the way he deceived E. Because millions of us believe that God's word is firm and it's the truth. And I asked him, and they can't come up with anything. I say, what about the earth we live on? What

I asked him how long? He said, five or six hour flights.

I said to him, did you dip the nose of the plane during a six hour flight?

He looked at me weird, saying no. What do you mean?

I asked him, did you have to dip the nose to a for the curvature of the earth? He laughed, He shook his head and walked away into his office life.

But again, this is another thing that would logically have to be done if indeed we lived on a curved ball. That's right, And what would happen if if the pilot's flying south on a ball? If you close your mind, just close your eyes for a second. You look, there's Earth right and you're flying from Florida just south. How are you not flying off into outer space if you're not constantly dipping your.

Nose down? Right?

Well?

Yeah, I use the same argument, but a different way.

I just have them flying north south or.

South north, And I say, if you look down, you should see the Earth spinning at somewhere between from Australia seven eight hundred miles an hour to over one thousand miles an hour at the equator. And I said, no one ever sees that. And they said, that's because it's too slow. I said, you can't tell me a thousand miles an hour is too slow. They don't come back with an argument because a thousand miles an hour is not slow. Do one hundred miles an hour and see how fast it is in your car.

And ten times that. Yeah, fast, it's very fast. But where the crazy ones comelo?

Oh yes, I know that you more than me, jeorgs because you're on a podcast. I can hide you know what happened? I started finding witnessing to people so much easier by asking Christians if they were open for a challenge, did they know where God was? Do they know what the firmament is? And non Christians do you know where God is? Or even Christians, do you know where God is? And most Christians do not know where God is. I couldn't have answered you last year the beginning of last year.

Spreads them out like a tenth to dwell in. It's all there.

The God, God's word has got so much in there for us. You know, the Bible says that the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter will be established.

I believe we should hold the Bible to that standard as well.

So one verse says something and we don't find it anywhere else, hold it lightly and go maybe this does mean that, But I'm not sure. But most of what we're talking about here has more than one verse, and many of them have more than two or three.

Absolutely confirm it.

Absolutely. We're down to our last seven or eight minutes. One thing I did want to ask to squeeze into this one is, for instance, Joshua ten thirteen.

Mentions, oh I love that the book.

Yeah, how the sun said still, But also it mentions the Book of Joshure. In your studies, do you include the apocrypha?

I have a book of actually here, I just can't.

I just don't find it easy to open because I have so many other things that I'm behind in reading. I will look at apocryphal and pseudo biblical stuff, but have to hold it more lightly.

But let's see what it says.

Sure, the Book of Enoch I've listened to, but I just I probably don't have time, even as a retired person, to catch up on everything.

So I'm going hard where I can. But I think Paul cites non biblical texts when he writes to the church.

Yep, right, so why shouldn't we Exactly?

Yeah, I've got a couple of things and i'll get to I'll get to finishing up. I ask people do you believe I've got a lot of different ways I start conversations because.

I'm not backward. I ask people do you believe the government serves us?

And some people say yes, you know what I say? Then what about the American government? Do you think they tell the truth? They all say no. I'm sorry, Georgetish guy's under the bus. But most Australians go no, I don't believe they service And I'll ask them when you think this started happening, Because in my naivety, I thought it started happening maybe twenty thirty years ago.

The best answer I.

Got was in nineteen oh one, that's when we became a commonwealth. I don't believe the government serve us. They bring laws in that no people really want. They're not serving what we're asking them to say or do. They've got a different agenda, and you know where it comes from. I think if you're listening and you haven't worked out that it's filtered down from the God of this world, as the Bible calls the devil the prince of this world, then you haven't believed what the apostle Paul said.

We're not ignorant of his devices. I think we need to be sharp and alert because Jesus was very clear.

Do not be deceived. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. Let's not make it possible. Let's really wake up to what's going on. Let's get off that TV set and let's get our heads in the word, enjoying fellowship with one another and studying God's.

Word out.

Amen, well said, really well done, and you have brought so many great points and a great perspective, and your journey has been incredible and we'd love to have you back on in the near future. To continue this conversation. You have cited so much, and I'm so glad that you've enjoyed the podcast. And but most of all, thank you for being a disciple of Jesus Christ. That is the most important thing that one can do, and it's obvious that you are committed to doing that.

So thank you for that.

Thank you, George. Do you want can I go through six bullets?

Believe I thought I'm going to do more than Sixah.

Go ahead and run through them.

Okay.

Number one is scripture. If you don't found your life on scripture, you've got issues. There's either two hundred scriptures or there's a round two hundred scriptures that give information and evidence of the makeup of the heavens and the earth. According to scripture, these things are established. There's a firmament over us and around us. It's called heaven by God himself. The earth is made before the sun, and it's stationary fixed, it doesn't move. This is scripture. This is what our

You know.

In the King James version of Psalm nineteen, verse five, it doesn't say it's rising.

Is from the end of the heavens.

It says it's going forth is from the end of the heavens and its circuit to the end.

Of them, which I thought was very interesting.

But the Greek and that people do say the sun rises, the Earth has foundations, or people don't like that. The moon is a light. It's not a reflector. When you saw the lunar landing on the Moon's surface, it should have been like looking up in the spotlights of one of those football games, right, you shouldn't be able to look at it.

That's rue.

And those guys are just wandering around with little soft lighting. They go.

Rainbows. God love your rainbows. Number two no movement, no movement. Even Einstein couldn't get the movement. And you know all those experiments like areas failure. I love that they call it a failure Michelson Marley experiment. When you look at them, people come up with an answer and say, it just proves you the ether doesn't move. Well, actually it actually proved the Earth is not moving. Number three, no curve measurement. Look anywhere you go. You can prove this.

It's really easy.

Number four is using and trusting our senses. I often start my conversations with this. I'll stand on one foot. Now I've got big bunions on my feet. I'll stand on one foot if I'm in the sawner. They can see that I've got big bunions, and I say, can you do this? And I can't balance very well, so wabbling and they go yeah. So if you think you could do it at ten miles an hour on a merry go round going backwards, and most of them straight

More than one hundred miles an hour.

In fact, most people I ask them if I can how fast you think we're going.

They might know about the orbit, and they might even know about go around Sun, but most of them don't know that.

NASA claims we are going over a million miles an hour through the Greater attractor.

We can't sense any movement. Airplanes prove it.

This one is probably one of the easiest and best evidences that planes fly flat. And level, and there's a whole lot of others. What I just I spent so long in this and I've got bits of information all over the place, So I'll leave that. Maybe if I do come back, i'd love to. By the way, thank you for asking me back.

Yeah, you mention that because you know what I'm holding in the book. I've been mentioning this book. I actually went to what my Books and found it. It's two hundred plus flat Earth Bible versus. It's awesome. And I just noticed while you were talking it even mentions Revelation twenty one, fifteen through seventeen, New Jerusalem, the Huge Cube, and then Waters Curbed Joe thirty seven to ten. But

Yeah?

And I don't remember somebody sent this to me or I got it from Amazon, but check it out. Two hundred plus Flatter Bible verses. I have the ISBN. If anybody wants it. I'll try to remember to put it in the show notes. Oh what a great conversation.

Sorry, George, who's it by?

That's the thing. There's no credited author.

Oh, okay, so maybe if I find it, maybe it's but I don't listen it anywhere in the book. I'll locate it and I'll put it in the show notes for sure, so people can.

Have you been canned? Because that's only five, I've still got two go so, oh no, I've jumped right. Number six is perspective.

Yep.

It's been a great ride learning about perspective.

And like we talked to this like I don't want to give away who people are because it's their story to tell.

Sure, But she teaches art and we went into her art room and they go, wow, I didn't know you're such a good artist. I said, do you do you understand perspective? Oh, we've got to teach a perspective? Well what is?

And she's just going on and I mentioned the water being flat and stuff at this and her husband.

Goes, oh, I'm not flat earth again.

But she's older than I am by a good number of years, and I don't haven't had a chance to ask her if she believes it, but we just leave it there.

It's very interesting. My last one is NASA, because you've gotta love NASA.

The wire harnesses how many fails you know, you know, they know we see these things and they don't care, do.

They one hundred percent?

And not only that, not only the harnesses the CGI fails.

That the infamous video of George W.

Bush Poppy being you know, in his wheelchair through Houston in the background, the.

Blue screens, the green screens, it's bubbles, bubbles in space. Now they have once again the infamous rule.

They kind of have to tell us, right, you have to be able to have the eyes to see, and it's there for the people who are willing to look.

Where where is that revelation of the method? Where do you reckon that's come from? Because it does seem to be a thing, doesn't it.

Yes, absolutely, yep.

They can't intentionally hold our hand and pick it up and you know, and do whatever. They We have free will. That's when people, you know, something goes wrong in life and they say, if there is a god, why would he allow this to happen. Well, it's you either have free will or you don't. If you were controlled one hundred percent, you wouldn't. You'd complain about not having free will. So you can't have it one way or the other.

Yeah, And then just nearly finished with these technical manuals. It's flat, non rotating Earth with a stationary atmosphere.

I've seen their technical manuals.

I've seen them.

They're good. Yep, Mars. I love finding Mars because it's easy.

It's on Devon Island, Canada, it's in Libya, it's in the Bulgaria.

That's thing. How they can spread mass over those parts of the Earth.

That's right, there's.

An emphact like they're just the same. They're not even touched up except for color.

Yep.

That JPL picture from twenty twelve that Mars rover had a snapshot and there was a little mouse on the bottom left hand corner.

Oh yeah, oh, you got to love those things.

Yeah, for sure. Well done.

Do you want me to go? Can I go into final words? I've got just a real thing.

Yeah please do.

We've got just about two minutes left, so feel free to go ahead and wrap up.

Okay, And can I pray at the end please?

Yeah? There's always talking about that, Yes.

Sir, so, I was reading this this morning in my Bible.

The Apostle Paul, in one of the New Testament's most touching moments, encourages the Ephesian elders with these verses. In Acts twenty, he says, for I know this that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves, men will rise up, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples up to themselves. Therefore, watch and remember that for three years I did not

Okay, Can I pray?

Of course?

Okay, Sorry, I've written down because if I pray without the notes then I could go for too long rambling.

I don't want to remble. Dear Lord, we just thank you.

For this great opportunity to share our stories today, and especially the knowledge that we have that we know you, Father God. We pray you guide our thinking as we believe the truth. Pray for those who are not yet close to you, that you would draw them to you with your mighty love, Your mighty word and your mighty work of Jesus the Savior. Lord, I pray you continue to wake your church up and reveal truth to all believers. Father, just as Jesus prayed, we pray you sanctify us by your truth.

We know your word is truth.

We ask you for wisdom and above all things, Lord, that we would love you with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, and love our neighbor, Love our neighbor as ourself.

We pray this in Jesus Mighty name for your glory. Father, Thank you, Thank you, George, God bless you.

God, bless you too, and thank you for I love the angle, not the angle, but I love that you siting scripture throughout the conversation. That's very important. There's a lot of people who say, well, you know, you know, well, talk to me about flirt earth not not so much. The Bible come from a science angle or a technical angle, and.

You can do that too. We can.

We've you know, we've beaten curvature. We know that water always finds it level. We can do things like that. But if there was no God, if there was no you know, pearly gates waiting for us, why would we even worry about the realm. We live in retrospect. We know where we live, and knowing where you live means everything. Especially when you can look up and you can point to that north star right in that area, that's.

Where God is.

And I think that's a really cool way that you you kind of break the ice with people.

That's really awesome.

Yeah. Can I say one more thing?

Yeah, that people often say the Bible is in the science textbook.

Praise the Lord for that. God doesn't have to change it every second year.

That's right.

He doesn't have to do hypothesis and all the time.

That's we don't want to science textbook. I want the truth. Thank you.

Amen.

Well, God bless you, and I hope you get all your work done. You need to on your on your you call it a right.

It's just a small homestead. We have our chickens and we have our greenhouse, and we're pulling out our carrots and the relishes this time of year.

So it's good. It keeps us busy.

Excellent. Yeah, that's good. All right.

God bless you, God bless you, and thank you all so much for continuing to support the Flat Earth Files podcast again.

The website is the Flat.

Earth files dot com and we will have Carmelo's email address in the show notes if you'd like to reach out to him, and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to reach back out to you.

God bless each and every one of you.

Have a great Thanksgiving to everyone here in the United States and to all those who celebrate enjoy that Turkey. God bless, have a great week. And until we meet again, my friends, we will see.

I know it's been struggle. I don't know you've had me. Don't all the way? Yeah, I don't you feeling more? You smile, ain't the same. I saw the way to go from you feel like.

You've lost your way. Don't give it. No, don't give it and never this home. Don't let call the primise. It ain't done yet. He's gone up ladder. Why it's a right time? Got up?

Let me come?

Why wait, God up, lem me calling.

I can see the street beside you. Child's are putting up five.

Oh, you're got a thing. Yeah, you're gonna be all right. You're accepting a dead folio.

Beautiful, you're shoving ride, Yeah, you're living, breathing, move.

You can hold your head.

Of pie.

Don't give up, No, don't give in, never lose home, don't let go on the primise. It ain't done yet's God?

I plant?

Wat's a way down the.

God of me became me.

Don't give up, No, don't give in you, never lose home, don't let go on the promise.

It ain't god life, it's worth live men.

Wat's a way down the god of cal WHA's the play down the god? Oh yeah, what's the play down the god?

Baby call?

Oh yeah, got called.

Don't give up, no, don't give in, never solve? Do they go of the primis n in and done? Yeah, he's got up playing watch and die kind of in a colts don't give no, dog giving never it's hold.

Don't they go of the crimes? It ain't done? Others worth live in?

What's the god of the colts? All the did of needs cos whits don't God.

You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network.

Just the facts, ma'am.