Episode 178: Flat Earth Conversation with Author Mark Rengel

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They built their tales on crafts and lines on.

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Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files. I'm your host is always George Hobbes, and we have Mark from Australia on the line who'll be joining us in just a moment before we get started. Don't forget for all things Flatter Earth Files. Please do check out the website, the flat Earthfiles dot com and if you'd like to join the podcast like Mark is today, please do send

I'm really well, Thanks George, and thank you for having me on the show. It's quite surreal to be here talking with you after having listened to the show for I Reckon it's been about two years now. I started listening to it way before Christmas last year, so I've been churning in to all the wonderful people that you

So it's it's just wonderful.

To be a part of that and be given the opportunity to have a good chat with you about something that often leaves me feeling like I'm sort of this sort of.

Pariah or you know, outsider.

Whenever I try to bring up the subject of the flat Earth with people, I often feel I know it's a bit extreme, but it's just sort of like you you're you're someone who's got leprosy, you know, and you you sort of bring up this this subject and no get away from me, get away, I don't want to know. Don't, don't, don't,

I can be pretty.

Abrasive and gruff, and I think with the sections in the book, I was really when I was writing that. It was at the same time I'd heard flat Earthed get ripped to shreds by that really nasty chap who was he was having the debate with. I forget the guy's name.

I think his name was.

Dave too, And yeah, I know you're talking about professor Dave right, Well, yeah.

But apparently word on the street was he's not actually a professor as such. If I'm if I'm hearing right, I'm only re rephrasing what I've heard.

Yeah, it was. It was a bit of a what do you call it?

When you get one of these martial arts instructors they call themselves a black dan when actually they're, you know, they're just a yellow belt. I think that might have been a bit of the scenario going on there. But I think good old Dave flat Earth, Dave just he was he was so diplomatic and you know, I just felt that that was so unfair what happened with that debate and he acted like a complete.

Complete narcissist. You know, just what happened with that.

Was it just fueled me to go ahead and write the section that I think I sent you a sample of. So I got quite quite carried away with my wordage describing these these.

So called astrophysicists in their fields.

So there's a lot of a lot of nasty wording, but I tried to go down the road of not cussing, but trying to just be as beers obnoxious as I could about what I thought of them, and at the same time try and succinctly spell out some of the idiocracy of of you know, the physics that they are

Cooling Gatto is part of Queensland.

However where we live is right on the border of New South Wales, so where you literally look out over our back fence and we're looking into Queensland. So technically, when we drive in our driveway we're in New South Wales and when we drive out of our driveway we're

Just north of here in Queensland.

And so it's a juggling act, and normally with my wife working at those times of the day, I'm the one who's got to run around and madly kind of calculate, and I'm often getting calls from the school to.

Say, you need to come and pick you need to come and pick a rorer up.

You've for gotten the daylight savings, and I'm all, yeah, I'll be there in a few minutes.

So we've been living here for ten years.

My daughter's are fourteen and twelve now, and we moved here from China. My wife's Chinese, and for ten non consecutive years, you know, like three years here, two years there, three years here. I've lived in mainland China, working for most of that time as an ESL English as a second language teacher.

The last teaching stint that I did in.

China I was actually working at an international school called Dutun International School.

As a grade two primary teacher.

I'm kind of in this long, duous journey of trying to finish off doing a BA in education, which started off initially as a dip ed, but then the university's changed and said you can no longer be qualified doing a dip hed, a DIPAD used to be one year.

Then they made it two years.

You could attach that onto the end of a degree in any subject and then walk out of there and have a really good grounded knowledge in what your original degree was in with the two years of teaching education

Do a whole lot of art subjects.

So it's sort of circumfunded needing to do a degree. But in my personal opinion, I think that's not right because you have a lot of great teachers who are passionate about whatever their subject was coming out and then they do they did BED and they go in there and they become great teachers at what they're into. For me, it seems a little bit generic and washed out what

And for a while they're both Louy and my wife and I would.

Go around to kindy's and schools and holiday resorts and shopping centers, and we were doing you know, full on, you know puppet shows.

And I made the stage myself out of wood.

It was a kind of old retro Italian public theater style stage that I made that could fold up and go on the back of the van. And for a while there it was it was okay. But the problem was that we were just a husband and wife team trying to run a household and then at the same time trying to run a business. So it was it was up and down and it was a real rollercoaster ride, and then eventually we just had to say, okay, we need to go back to normal jobs.

Yeah. Is that the same Stan Winston that was part of the Tim Burton films.

Yes, yeah, he he he's the legendary you know. I made the alien characters and the Predator, designed the Predator. When the film was going down one road with a different character, they stepped got him to step in, and he kind of saved the day with the redesign of the And also he has a wonderful online school, very

And I just kept working away at it.

I guess I like, I love working with my hands anything, painting heart It's a very for me, very it's reward, Yeah, exactly.

You look at something that you created with your hands. It's I do woodworking and things like that. It's very when you're done after the hard work, the detailed work and the time and effort is it's very rewarding and it is like it's a stress believer as well.

Oh definitely, you know it's it's it's that act that it's also the necessity is the mother of all inventions. So you know, we had we went and got a great, big, huge, you know, eighty inch TV, but we didn't have a stand. And I'm looking at the process of the stands going. You've got to be joking me, and I can go do that myself. So you know, I went into Bunnings, which is like Australian version of Home Depot. So Bunnings sort of generally is where you go for all your dool stuff.

Here in Oz.

And you know, it took me about a month and I made a TV stand. I'm not very artistically woodworky, you know, like with joins and all this kind of thing.

I'm very pragmatic. I'll go hang on.

I mean, I can put a bolt in here and bolt that and you know, and as long as it tastes together like the rocket Gibraltar. But I appreciate the real artisanry in woodwork. You know, when I see people making all these wonderful furniture and someone that's got all these amazing dovet all joins and all this kind of thing, I think, God, one day, I'd like to One day I'd like to have the time to be able to

I've been living in Hong Kong and working as a health instructor in Hong Kong.

And my girlfriend at the time, she just traveled this wonderful, amazing journey through You're all, through Pakistan and through the Kaiba Pass and then she'd been in India before that. And when she got back, she showing me all these photos and I'm just blown away because my minor in my film degree was photography and I had this amazing, inspiring photography lecturer, Max Pam, who is a famous I was.

He traveling photographer.

So he had all these wild photos of all these places he'd visited in the Gabie Desert and the mountains of Mongolia and all these other places.

And I'd always sort of been inspired to do the same thing.

So when I saw the photos of where this friend had traveled through, I was all, Okay, I'm going to get a backpack, I'm going to get a camera, I'll get a lonely planet. And this is in the early nineties, so there was no phones or digital or anything. I got a map of China and that was it and packed my clothes and off I went, got my visa of course, and then jumped on the train at Monkok station in Kowloon and traveled up across the border into Shenzhen and Guangdong, and then off I went on this

They're they're part of.

Laos, They're part of Burma, they're they're mountain people. And Jinghong, which is the capital at the time, was this beautiful little oasis of a of a town. It just had this laid back, lovely feel, and there was all these foreign backpackers there at the time.

Because it was too cold to go further north.

This is around about January February, and so my plan was to hang there until things began to warm up more north, because I was planning on going into Tibet and then further north up into Cashgar and Mongolia. But at that moment in time, it was a you know, frozen tundra.

So this lovely semi.

Tropical kind of place was a good kind of you know, location to park up and just you know, enjoy and do a.

Bit of traveling.

And as it were, there were all these little towns nearby called Manglon, Manghai, mang mang Lan, and they generally had the same name, and there was all different little attractions to go and see in each one.

There were very small, little rural villages, you know.

And so I went one night to go stay in

Yeah.

I hadn't mentally processed the fact that I'm there just with this stood on a little trail, completely unarmed.

Nothing there. And then when I'm.

Years and years later, when I've watched videos of tigers attacking people, I'm going, damn, that.

Was that was not a good spot.

But he took me into this little spot where they had this treehouse. And when I say treehouse, it was more like one of those guard watch towers that you see in those old Second World War films, you know, the ones that they've got the big watchtower, you know, one of the the.

Prison camps or whatever, you know those kind of towers.

They built one of those, so it was quite safe, you know, as in secure and anyway, So I got there at two in the afternoon.

I thought, oh, maybe some people will show up. Nobody did.

So by six o'clock at night, I'd gone up to the top of the tower and there was a mid level entrance way and I closed that and I've gone up into the top part of the tower.

And my real worry was pythons.

There've been all this scuttle button talk about how this particular jungle area was rife with giant pythons and all these stories about people getting attacked, and so I'm lying there going, well, if I go to sleep, I don't want to wake up cuddling up to a python. So I'm looking at all the rafters and thinking there's trees around they could come in through there.

That was my biggest worry. But nothing ever came of it.

But the following morning, as I was walking back out of the trail, so I got through the night, I was so I sort of went to bed about twelve, and I was not really too scared. I was just a bit like worried about rats or anything coming into.

The area because it wasn't sealed off, you know.

And as I'm walking back out, I got kind of quarter of the way down the path and just in this small little clearing, I'm looking at this this It was a cactus about five foot tall, I would have said. And as I kind of walked off the pathway to take a good look at it, I'm treading really carefully on the ground, mind you, because I'm worried about snakes

Big, you know, hoo haa boo ha kind of going.

On, and it's all these businessmen, all dressed up really you know flash, and they're all larking around this small little platform that was there to look at the elephants, but there weren't any elephants around, and they all kind of looking at me, going.

Where did you just come from? Where did you come from?

And I'm pointing down that way and I kind of gesture like I slept there last night, and they're going, oh, one of them could just speak a bit of English, and so we all walked back to the Butterfly Sanctuary, which is where this place was, and it turned out that they were a bunch of city officials from Jinghong and they'd all driven out there in their flash cars to go to the Butterfly Sanctuary and get some photos,

But that cactus stuck with me for years.

And then it would have been I don't know, maybe two or three years, four years down the track, nineteen ninety six ish and I just come back from working in the gold mineup and Mika, Sarah and I had got together with an made of mine who'd also done film, and we said, let's let's write down this idea for a really good children's TV show, you know, like with

Twenty four.

Series, twenty four thirty minute episode series with all the character breakdowns and the synopsis and everything, and you know, we went around and peddled it to all the studios and TV stations and producers that we could find in Perth, and I even reached out to the ABC head of ABC Children's Development and center the script. But again, it's all comes down to someone not really wanting to cough the money up, you know, to produce it. So we just shelved it. And that's where it kind of when

And I was looking and reading a lot.

Of books on the occupation of France and all the things that went on during that period of time in the early forties to forty four forty five, and that's when I sort of revisited this character, and I thought, you know, what, what if this guy, you know, has an origin story, and then he keeps going, and he keeps meeting people and joining up and you know, he wanders through life a little bit Forrest Gumpty, but not a full on you know, replication of but in that similar vein, you know.

And similar little.

Similar, yeah, little little similar, but not quite the you know, the exact carbon copy of it, but in that vein.

So this idea that came in your head almost thirty years ago, it's come out in the form of a book today.

Yep.

Wow, that's incredible.

Yeah. That's life, isn't it. That's that's everything going on. I must say that I've.

Been writing a bit by bit, you know, over the years. I've I've I've had a lot of difficulty with depression, and so you know, I'll go through phases where I don't do anything creative and I just knuckle down on going off and doing a job and bringing in some money. And then I start to sort of climb out of that and then I go, you know what, I'm going to revisit that and go back to it. And I guess that's the process that's happened with this book.

Particular. So in that a couple of years.

Ago, I I never realized what the detrimental effect of having a stalker.

In your life can have on you.

I mean, if there's obviously there's people listening who may be able to relate to or no people who have had stalkers. And I mean we're always led to believe that it's males that can be stalkers, you know, and females of the but that happens.

The genders can be different. And I wasn't aware of it.

I didn't know that I had this person from my past, and I mean a long, long time ago on my past, who has been following me, stalking me. I'd find out that I was working somewhere, living somewhere, and then it was only after the fact that I'd find out that.

This person had turned up there.

And it gets under your skin because I've had I've had friends back when I was living in Perth some thirty years ago. My girlfriend at the time, she had a friend who had been horribly stalked by this chap and he'd not only stalked her, he'd stalked her sister as well, and you know, there was telephone calls and following around and they turn up and I used to shake my head and think, how how on earth do you deal with that? And it's it's to the point where most of the people and I've known quite a

I guess it's the word.

And it was funny because I kept recalling having conversations with people and I was going, boys, that was odd, that was a bit cold. That person's normally warm and jovial, and that was a bit gruff. And I couldn't figure it out why. And then only after someone very close and dear spelled it out to me and what had been going on.

I'm at this point having a discussion.

With a lawyer, and this lawyer works with the private investigator who specializes in defamation.

I don't know. I try and pray for guidance.

I pray for guidance every second moment of the day with everything, and I kind of feel now like more just moving on, moving away. But the problem is how do you get the person to stop, you know, and.

Especially when you have a family, it's ye know, that affects everyone, it sure does.

You know, I know, I mean, you know, we're in a nice little community here, you know, we're I'm so thankful and lucky for the part time work that I've I've got My wife and I both work at hurt Call and gadd She works at the front counter doing the carbookings and rentals, and I work in the car wash where we do the returns and process the cars and then we move them around and bust the cars

And I've worded all that into the preface at that.

Time, and and I was going to leave that out when I sort of got to the point maybe two or three months ago, where I neared the end of this section Book one, and I thought that's too heavy.

I'm not going to put that in there.

But then I read back through it and I thought, no, there's stuff in here that could help someone.

There's there's there's messages.

In this prefaces heavy as it is that I believe could be of value to someone in the same shoes, you know. So I left it in there. I don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I left it in there. So it's a sort of it's a funny, it's a funny, eclectic kind of narrative this book. It goes well into the whole conspiracy of the elites and what's being done to it, you know, the the machinations of what's created wars in the past and what will continue to create wars if we don't

It's a kind of it's a rocky roads. It's a p and ham soup kind of narrative.

The reader will get a lot of bang for their buck. It's pages, so you certainly put a lot of thought and effort in detail into your book.

Yeah, it's Look, if I don't if they don't get a good rate out of it, at least have got a good doorstop.

There you go. I have a couple of questions to ask you. First of all, going back, you were in China for three years. I know personally a handful of people who have lived in China multiple years, some English a second language as well, others in the tech industry. They all loved it. And I know every country uses propaganda to narrate or to dictate a certain mindset to people, but everyone who I know personally who has gone just loved it. What was your thoughts exactly that it was?

It was a bit of a love height relationship.

I say that because it's a wonderful place in the Chinese people in general are just the most loveliest people. The thing that used to get this is a nauty expression doing my head in. The thing that used to do my head in was when you would encounter sort of everybody's not a lot of people are on the take, you know, so there's always a shakedown going on somewhere.

It's the red envelope syndrome. Everybody.

Everybody needs a red envelope put in their hand to grease the wheels to make things, you know, happen and move. And not always, but in general, my love of it was the vivacity, the good humor there there. They've got a damn good sense of humor of the Chinese.

And I loved it. I love that.

I love the kind of I think as an Australian there's there's a certain certain similar kind of outlook and vibe to life that the Chinese general, Chinese people have that is a little bit kind of in many ways.

And I know someone might argue with me that it's not, but I.

Say that there's a bit of ozziness to their outlook on life. You know, they've got this kind of rough and ready, you know, let's let's give it a crack, let's have a go. These are expressions that we use a lot nice you know, like old expressions. You know, have a go mate, have a go mate, go on, give it a go, and that sort of attitudes like, you know, get in there, give it to give it a shot. And that's how I used to see a lot of the Chinese people. I knew they had that

It's just life.

Everybody's getting on with life, you know. And I've met hung out with and talked with government officials, city officials, and you know, they're just doing business, getting on with life.

It's all bit business, you know.

And so my biggest negative, George was and it's the reason why that we put the sort of why I put my foot down to stay here and not go back, because we initially came down here to deliver our second daughter with the intention of going back to Qingdao and Lou Lou and my wife, she had about a month ago before delivering Aurora, our second, our youngest, and we were going to get back on the plane and fly back up.

There as soon as you know.

The bub was ready to go, and Lou was ready to go too, and The thing that got me the most and really put me off is the food safety issues in China.

You didn't like the bat soup.

Everything, George, Like, I'll run a few off, like for a while. They're my favorite brand of dumplings, frozen dumplings that I would go and get at the supermarket and always have them in the freezer, and they were kind of like a quick go to snack. Yeah, we got home, we we got homemate from work, and I wanted just to check something in the in the boiler and have a food. I'd grab these dumplings and sometimes I'd fry them, and you know, they were they were great.

You know, I know, I just knew that brand, knew that packet.

Then Lou Shows put me some undercover video footage of a factory where they've got all these old people sitting around with piles of newspaper and they're smushing them up, mashing them up, adding flavor, doing they're doing that. They were the fillings for the dumplings that I've been eating.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah away, yeah, well I've been eating them for about six months. Yeah, I was okay, no problem at all. It's just that when I go past the news agency. Now and I smell that newspaper smell, I start to salivate.

Incredible.

Yeah, when I when I when I when I smell newspaper, I get hungry.

Now that's funny. I was going to joke about the hardest part of living in China was fund in a good Chinese restaurant. But after that story, my goodness, gracious.

There's no there's no shortage of good restaurants. There really is.

There's a lot of them, there's and you find all these little wonderful hole in the wall kind of little family run you know. It's just a matter of being in that city long enough, discovering this. Someone shows you this. I come to this little noodle shop and you go in there and it's just the most delicious food you've ever eaten in the most rustic, you know, very basic setup, you know, and at the end of the day, you know, you know, it's it's it's the quality can be anywhere

You know.

We used to get to and from work on an old electric scooter. This is back in two thousand and seven, before all the electric craze has taken over. Now that's and we used to jump on that and ride it into work. And you know, we could put all our grocers and shopping loaded up on it rain hale or shine, and we park it in a little urage and charge it overnight. So you know, we just had this wonderful lifestyle. The classes were good. The school that I taught at

The Chinese version of a reception is a little bit rushed. It's very very part part, part, part, next thing, next thing, next thing.

Here's the dishes is this is that okay, dune, dun dun, dun, dune, Okay, everybody out. I don't mean to sound disrespectful or too critical, but it is very rushed and you don't get time to talk to everybody else who's at the reception. You'll just sit at your table and they'll bring the dishes out, there'll be some.

Speeches, there'll be this, they'll be.

That, and it's very short, only goes through about an hour or hour and a half, whereas we didn't want that.

So we were lucky.

We got to have a really good, old fashioned reception and all her family and the kids and everyone mixed, and we had to speed, and I was so thankful. When I look back on it now, I think we were lucky, you know. And so I don't have any really bad reflections on China other than the problem with the food. And that's why I didn't want to raise

Yes, I've heard that, yes, And.

That's just kind of a glaring another one that's quite horrendous and this isn't made up at the crematoriums. You know, if you can imagine how many people in China pass away each day, it's one.

Point five billion people.

I got told that a thousand people a day die on the roads, and I said, that can't be right. A thousand people a day. You know, we win in Australia. We've got an annual road toll of about two hundred at the you know, they're about three.

Hundred if it's bad.

And someone's trying to tell me a thousand people a day, and I thought, no, that can't be right. But then a lot of people started to say no, it averages out to about a thousand people a day die on their roads, and I was all, no, that can't be But there's a lot of people dying each day, that's a given. And when they cremate them, there's a lot of the this is quite gross, but a lot of the body fat they collect, you know, the fat from

As they are eating any shrimp fried race anytime soon after this conversation. But going back with what you said, there is articles while you were talking. According to the United Nations World Population Prospects Report, approximately this is as of twenty nineteen, about twenty seven hundred people die in China every single day.

Wow, so's it's pretty.

Spattle and yep, that's amazing when you think about it.

So, the the Garta oil was another one where they would collect the dirty sewer. The sewers would outside the restaurant districts would be full of all the oil that they'd wash wash down the sink and you know, they call it Garta oil because it would float on top of the all the others and all these people would go in lift the lid off the manhole and they'd have these scoops and they'd scoop out the oil and take it back and reprocess it to sell.

So oil was the other thing. Getting good oil was always a worry.

But anyway, yea, So there was only that that was my biggest one. The air pollution wasn't too bad in the cities we lived in. Yeah, Young Jail was a lovely city with weather. Ching Dao was beautiful too, so we didn't have that problem that some of the biggest cities have where it can literally be too dangerous to go outside some days if the weather's not waxing lyrical. So the flat Earth journey for me George began I around about two thousand and seventeen, and.

It was when we hadn't been.

Put under the spell of the algorithms that would stop you from going to look at anything you know now as it is now. You know, if I go and put in you know, the Flat Earth by Dave Weice or something that is a video that's been put together by Eric Dubai or someone, I won't get that, even though if I put in the exact words, it.

Won't bring it to me.

But back in I think it was two thousand and seventy eight, I've been sitting there and I was looking at this guy doing a YouTube video on the Apollo fifteen lunar module lander and he was going over it bit by bit with a fine to his climb, just looking at all of these anomalies and inconsistencies, and it was just this one bit that jumped out of me, and it was these panels on the side of the lunar module that looked like they've been put together by

To be a you know, a.

State of the art, no expense spared everything, lock stock and two smoking barrels in place, and this thing looks so shoddy.

It's not funny.

And then I began to drill down on the lunar module, just looking more and more at it, going this whole thing, even the old crater underneath it, there's no there's no splash throwing underneath it. You know, whether that one thruster should.

Have anything nothing.

Nothing, You know, you've you've got that big how many hundred pounds thruster on the bottom and it hasn't as so much as even you know, created a saucer sort of within the you know, the powdery dust that by rights, I mean you should be looking at that. Those three legs should be should be on the edge.

Or part way down a big, huge crater, you know.

And so I started looking at it more and more, and that for some reason brought up on my feed a whole lot of stuff by Eric Dubai Dubai, and so I started to look at that, and straight away it was kind of like everything started to make sense. Everything began to make sense as I looked at it, watched it. All these experiences I've had over the years here,

At work for Monday.

So I had to come back seven hundred kilometers on Sunday afternoon. So I used to drive my car down and back all the time, so you can imagine.

And on that drive, I used to.

Sit there and I just stare off at the road going look at that I can that just goes, you know, directly off into the distance, an event horizon, you know. And when I started to watch the flat Earth videos, I just.

Went, Okay, I get that. And then I.

Started to look at the pythagorm serreum, the curvature of the Earth, and how much of a drop we get per meter or something gets away from us.

If I stand here at the groin at Kira.

Beach, we call it groin like a rock jetty jettie made of rocks. So if I stand on the outcrop of rocks at Kira Beach here and I look north along the coast to where surface paradise is, I can see all the skyline. They're clear as day on a flat day. Now, that's no refraction, that's no light reflecting on you know, h two gas in the and as all these other people trying to explain it, away.

There's no explaining it away.

You stand there on a good clear day when there's a flat, low swell ocean, and you can see from top to bottom all of those big skyscrape business surface paradise, And if you look even further to the right, you can see the skyline at Brisbane. And once this fell into place, I just went, well, here's your proof, and this makes sense to anyone.

Why can I see that when I shouldn't be even.

Able to see at least the bottom third of those buildings or halfway, and I should not be able to see any way, shape or form any of the skyline in Brisbane off in the distance. But yet there they are there, just like that lake I think you've got in the States.

What is it? Is it Lake Michigan?

Yep, yep.

Yeah.

That was a big what to do about some Chicago news stations saying it's refraction what you're seeing.

Folks, that's that's right. Yeah.

I remember seeing all the news, the weatherman trying to put a bit of GST over the top of it to try and explain it away. So that for me, it just fell into place. And when it did it something happened. It really something beautiful. I think you could say it has beautiful happened. I just I really just

We're not hurtling through space.

We're not about to get obliterated by a media or any minute now. We're in a beautiful little goddenrarium that was created by something we just can't even place and process in our mind as to the grandeur of what God's handiwork is.

And I think that's the common theme that people come to understand. And then that is really the veil that falls from man's eye and you start to understand things like the Big Bang and evolution and all this other nonsense that science and sadly our governments try to push

Spend four forty seven million, which.

In today, if you adjusted to today, that's three and a half billion dollars, there's something that probably cost them, I don't know, five or six thousand dollars.

Do you know the finme the the actual fine which is the only real chesy body pot that you can see. To me, that looks like a weight up betle frame. I look at that and I think they've got a vede up betle fi. They've chucked a couple of lazy boy deck chairs on there. They've got, you know, some sort of battery pack on the back, and I question, I don't know about if you've had the same question come to mind as well. They allege that the wheels are made out of some sort of elaborate mesh frame with.

With plating, and then they show.

You these close up pictures of this alleged mesh framing, but then you never sort of get a good close up of it in situ with that mesh framing, alleged mesh framing that they used. So when you're looking at it from a distance, they look to me just like normal tires.

Absolutely, yep. They look like heavy, douty military vehicle tires, like yeah from a cut beee yeah.

And they are purporting, purporting that those tires are not air filled. There were some state of the art who was it? He made them?

Uh?

General not General? I think general motors were supposed to be. They designed this this mesh wiring fame with platelets on the out on the outside and so on and so forth, and they're not air filled. And then they show you these close ups of the tires.

And they're they're they're, they're they're they're.

They're like chicken not chicken white, but you know what I mean, like a kind of they're the one that they've got in.

I've got a.

Photo here I'm looking at right now, and it's it's in some museum somewhere.

It's the rover.

Where is it doesn't say because I've just got the picture, but it looks like it's sitting in a science museum or somewhere like that. And clearly in this photo you can see they're they're alleged mesh frame wheels tires, you know.

There they are.

Well, look that's the mesh tires with the little stirrups inside, you know, the steel strips.

On the inside of the mesh.

And I'm looking at that, I'm thinking, that doesn't look anything like the photos they've shown us, where it just looks like a plane old military rubber tie, you know, for jeep. So I think that's another big giveaway. When you look closely, you don't see that mesh on the tires. They look like good old rubber tires and they reckon.

And I'm like, oh, my goodness, you know, like a hundred. I said what's your range?

And he said, oh, one hundred and twenty kilometers, And I'm thinking, so that's where we are now. We've got these e scooters and e bikes that have a range of one hundred kilometers back in nineteen sixty nine. And that's with our new fangled lithium batteries. And I know from when Lou and I lived in.

China and we're riding around on our.

Electric scooter back in two thousand and seven that every six months when I went to change the batteries out, they got better and better.

So every time the batteries.

Needed changing, and they did, you know, with the running around that we did, he put new batteries in and he goes, oh, these ones are better. And I noticed that we got more mileage less charge time than the batteries we had prior to that set that got put in. And that's now all those years ago, nineteen sixty nine, they're claiming they drove ninety kilometers in this thing with

So if you go back twenty years to two thousand and five, one of the more top of the lane EV's, the General Murders EV one had a range of roughly fifty to sixty miles on one charch. So that was two thousand and five, which was about twenty five years more advanced than the Lunar Rover.

But in sixty nine they hooked it up to a couple of old Matt truck batteries and they drove ninety kilometers around on the Moon in it.

Right, Yeah, And I'm sure they'll say it was you know, the lack of gravity and it didn't it was able to go yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There was no there was no wind, no wind or something like that or the you know. But at the same time as well, have you ever seen the video of them popping.

It out of the.

Popping it out of the boot of the landing module where where the guy gets on the end of a rope and he kind of you see him go off camera, So i'd even say it's ah was thinking, yeah, how do you even know he's pulling on that cord like it First he grabs this cord, so to put it in perspective, you're looking at the bottom of the lunar modules sitting on the Moon, and he's got this cord attached to what looks like a kind of glove box on the bottom of the LM and then he walks

Know, one of those bloon animals.

And they've had like a blue animal tucked in the glove box and it kind of popping out as they do it. Then he pulls it a bit further and it kind of folds folds folds out, so they've had it folded in half and it's kind of gone boom and it sprung out as a complete, you know, four wheel thing.

And I'm thinking that just.

Doesn't look right, not at all. And by the way, I should note that it is on display at the National Air and Space Museum in DC, which is only about ninety minutes from me. I should get a really good quality camera, go down there and take and close up pictures of that sone.

It's probably the photo that I was just looking at where I said if clearly you can see those mesh wheels, yes, and yet it doesn't match up to the photos that you see of it on the moon.

And at the end of the day, how on.

Earth, how on earth did they ever come to forty seven million dollars for that?

I mean, it's what's on there that's worth forty.

Seven million, four hundred and forty seven million dollars, one hundred and four hundred and forty seven million US dollars half a billions, Oh my yeah, nice little seventy four hundred and forty seven million dollars, which is three point

Taxpayers, yeah, hard and cash, how to and tax past dollars that could have gone into hospital, health schooling. I just care all the things that this money that they Citanists have, because that's what I at NASA is essentially an.

Appendage of Sitan. That's all they are. That's that snake tongue in their logo is the serpent's.

Tongue, and the symbolism is right there for people to see. And and and again. The people who are pro Trump but are flat earthers, that is like, I just don't get it. The guy who created space space force, the guy who was the godfather of warp speed. I could go on and on, but I want to keep it a political you know. It's just, man, it's right in

Yeah, I like you.

You say to someone who very very intelligent person, you say, look, the sun is ninety three million miles away, allegedly ninety three million miles away. And you'll be standing there on a beach with this person who's got very good rational, critical thinking skills, and you'll say, ninety three million miles away, those light rays should not be diffracting out like that right now, you point and you go look at those I forget the words you useful when they fan out the light rays planet fan out.

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's I'm escaping you right now, you know.

So I sort of pointed out, I go, you do realize that if the sun is ninety three million miles away, like they alleged it is, that should not be happening.

You should not be seeing that.

You should not be seeing those light rays from the sun at this point in the afternoon with the clouds and all the beauty and everything that we're looking and now, because it's very beautiful, I said, we should not be seeing that. They should be if anything, if we could see them, which we shouldn't be able to see the rays because it's so far away. It should just be a diffuse, generic washed out. You know, it's so far away, you should not be getting that fanning out.

And then they go yeah, yeah.

Yeah, crepuscular race.

That's it.

Corpuscular race. Yeah, that's the one. And that's a local light source that's sitting in there, you know, And it's there in Genesis, it's there, and you know, you go through I wanted to ask a question though, in regards to what I know that's been brought up on the show before, but it escapes me as to what the general consensus was. I still wonder about shooting. When you see a shooting star falling star, what is it was saying?

There are a lot of theories on them, and obviously everybody's opinion is a theory. I always go back to. I try to be to be careful, and I tell this to people not as to use as a crutch, but to simply say that I'm not sure that God wants us to understand everything. It goes all the way back to the Tree of knowledge. I think there are just some things in the realm we live in that

Yeah, No, exactly. There couldn't agree more.

There's some things you just don't get an answer to, you don't, you know, it's not not asked to know. And I think that's that's like you said, scientism always has to have an answer for it.

Absolutely, you know.

Just an interesting aside. I was doing a unit and I think it was about maybe you're and a half ago as one of the units for my course. It was a science teaching course, you know, like education and pedagogy and science or whatever it was called. And we had to do a video presentation at the end. And in the video presentation. We had to comment on the different subjects that we covered, and so I did. We got to the space and the moon landing, and of course I.

Just I just unclipped. Anyway, I got a good mark.

For the video because I presented it well, I wrote it well, and it was all you know, referenced and everything to a t. But then the lecture, the head lecture got me in asked me to come into office. You didn't drag me in by the ear or anything, but said she needed to urgently discuss the.

Matter with me about the assignment.

And I had an idea what it was, and she said that she needed to clarify with me that I would not.

I had no.

I did not intend to go into the classroom and teach my beliefs on flat Earth and NASA being a fakery factory and so on and so forth, because if she did, she could not allow me to do the course or something along those lines. It would mean I'd run into some serious flack. And I forget what the consequences were.

But she was.

More or less saying that these views were beliefs, and I needed to keep like religious beliefs, and I needed to keep those to myself, and I thought, wow, we're supposed to be a university that is teaching open and free thinking and trying to put teachers out there who might be able to make a change so on, and yet there we are, in some ways opera like a very traconian.

Factory.

Yeah, it's our way or the highway instead of a group thing where you know, listen. Much of this we talk about biblical cosmology is biblical. However, using their math we can prove them wrong. So that should be something that you should be able to challenge.

Yeah.

Well, funny enough, we were sitting where the university I go to is just next door to the Gold Coast Airport, which is just near the foreshore. So the building's quite tall. It's like five or six stories tall. So we're in her office and we're in the we're in the fourth floor or fifth floor, I think it was, of the building looking out over the Curra Beach in the ocean off into the distance on a sunny afternoon, and there's the Gold Coast off in the distance, and I'm looking.

At that and looking at her, and I'm going thinking to myself, should.

I should I point and bring them.

And I thought, nah, forget. I just don't bother.

Yeah, yeah, I guess you have to understand where the line is. And yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean we've all had to kind of put our not our pride, but you know, our beliefs. It's a tricky situation and the matrix we live in. Sometimes you have to make compromise. That's probably the correct word to use.

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but yeah true.

To move to move through life, to get on, you've sort of got to I've been trying to explain this to my fortine year old daughter because she's become a bit of a fire brand. And I said to her, you know, and at fourteen, I know, I was that age and I was the same I you know, I just wouldn't back down from an argument. And she's my wife, being very fire brand herself. I've got these two at the moment they sort of go a bit.

Head a head, you know, they go quite a lot head to head, you know, and I've got a.

Sort of referee and and I was just explaining to my daughter this morning, you know, look, you know, sometimes you've just got to take a step back, nod your head and let go of it, you know, pick your battles.

Pick what hill you want to make a stand on?

But I said, you can't make a stand on every hill, and she's, I don't know if that's sunk in or not.

Well, they're at that age where it's you know, you have to be patient and as they get older, they'll remember that conversation and it'll click, I hope.

So it's tricky at this age now though, because you know, they want to they want to challenge everything, so you know, and but yeah, that was that was sort of that example where I just looked down at the window and I thought I could just point to those skyscrapers in the in the surface paradise now, that's what the name of the area is.

It's called Service Paradise, and.

It's about fifteen mile away from here. And I thought, look, I could just point there now and say to her do you see the skyline all the way from the top of the building to the bottom and even the shoreline?

Can you?

And I thought, then then she'll say yes, because clearly she wouldn't. Then I'll say, well, let's look at me, and I just saint, you know what, I just leave it. You know, that's sometimes I think, you know, I really struggle sometimes with the how much do you push and how much do you take a step back?

You know, that's something we all struggle with, Mike.

You know, at the end of the day, George, when I do pray for all the different things that I need help with, the number one thing I always pray for is guidance. I always always say, please guide me and everything I say and everything I do, please show me signposts or try and help me, you know, because

Please, please just steer me in the right direction.

Help me to do your work wherever it's possible for me to do it. Help me to guide me in my words, you know, please, you know, if if I'm going somewhere or whatever, I'm always well, you know, please please just steer me.

Protect me.

And you know, the same prayer I say over my kids, for my wife as well. But yes, it's not easy trying to make your way through the world when you know this. There's so much bipolar viewpoints and perspectives.

You know.

And with the Internet and social media and instant gratification, I think as helpful as the Internet is, I think it has kind of disconnected people personally.

Yeah, we've lost I mean, you know, I grew up as a kid in the seventies. I turned a teenager I was third I turned thirteen in January. My birthdays in early January, so I'm on my sixty now. I'm about five weeks away from sixty. I turned a teenager in thirteen in nineteen eighty, so the early eighties were my teenage years, and my twenties were the later eighties, you know, And I grew up as I imagine yourself many others listening, devoid of digital devices, devoid of when

You know, you're that kind of thing.

That was communication. It was the telephone, you know. And now, well what gets me is people will text message rather than just go, you know what, It's just as quick if I push the dial button then call them and go, hey, what blah blah blah blah blah blah, But no, they've got a text message.

I don't know.

I can understand it if you're in a situation where you can't talk, But nine times out of ten people will be sitting downstairs and not text message someone in their family upstairs, And you know, just it's a whole different dynamic of communication, and this generation has lost I feel I'm not sure about a lot of the listeners, and yourself might agree, but I feel like a lot of the younger generation just don't know how to talk in you know, if you're standing at a bus stop or.

You're waiting somewhere or whatever.

I've always been the type of person to strike up a conversation with anyone anywhere. And you know, it just seems now that if the person is the right age and the vintage, you have that wonderful conversation that you strike up out of nowhere.

But if they're under a certain age, they're quite rude. They don't even realize they're rude. I don't think they're kind of like, they just don't want to talk. It's not comfortable for them to talk that much. It's not Yeah, they've lost it.

They've lost the skill of enjoying having a good conversation with someone.

They don't know how.

They can only exist and operate and communicate via this thing in their hand.

And it's sad. It's really sad.

We are down to our last few minutes. I wanted to make sure I told everyone that Mark's book, The Tale of the Nomadic Shrub Book one is in. It's the very first note in the show notes the link to Amazon. It's a great deal, please support fellow like minded people. And it's and again, it's just a very well thought out book. I will be purchasing this tomorrow. It's a quick turnaround, you get it looks like in two days here in the United States, obviously, Yeah, depending

Well.

First of all, George, it's a huge thank you for the for putting this show together the way you have. It's meant a lot to myself and I'm sure countless others. So you know this is this is just a heartfelt thank you because you were a voice that gave me comfort, because you were bringing the community of people together, that that gave me a sense of I guess the words solidary and that I wasn't alone in this beautiful belief.

It's not a belief, I say belief. I know I could use the word belief. I believe the earth is flat. I don't. I know it's flat. I know.

Intrinsically in my heart and in my soul, in my mind, I know this is the case, So it's not even belief. It's like, I know God is real, I know the Earth is flat. I know we live in this beautiful, this beautiful realm. I believe there's this land beyond the Antarctic Barrier that's being kept from us by the greedy, wealthy elite. They're denying us of our sovereign right. They keep telling us we're overpopulated, there's too many obviously, Oh

And recently, I.

Just feel like we've been trapped. We're being kept in a prism.

We're being kept in a mental prism and a physical prism, and that humanity.

Is all this.

Fairy tale of space and colonizing planets and star wars and star trek and all of this. Much as I love all that, it kind of I can still watch it, but it doesn't gel with me anymore, because I think our colonization, on our expansion are but desire to go and explore that lays beyond Antarctica, that lays beyond the sea that surrounds Antarctica, beyond the next ice barrier that goes.

Beyond that, and there's lands this continence.

We know there is. Those of us who who have come to this flat earth reality know that we're being trapped inside here. We're being kept like a bunch of people being kept inside a foot over a football oval and the stadium is Antarctic current. You're not allowed to go anywhere near the stadium, not allowed to pass through any of the channels. On the other side of that stadium is more land, more space, more opportunity, and they're keeping up from us.

Well, and I'm sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, I just pray to God that that you know, one day we can we can be we can be delivered from the deception, you know. I pray for the the the awakening and the downfall of the evil ones.

But it's it's just for me at the moment. Comfort in knowing there's other people out there.

I can tune in and listen to your show and Flat Earth Dave, I love listening to and and Yeah, so, as I said, thank you, thank you for putting this show on the internet.

Thank you for the website.

I enjoy going to the forum and having a bit of a read around on there too.

Is the community there.

And most importantly, I don't feel a line in the world as I did before when I know that there's other people out there that can see this. You know, I'm not just sort of watching YouTube videos and trying to you know, feel like I'm sort of this this you know, one off unicorn wandering around in the forest on my.

Own you know there's other people out there, so yeah, thank you, George.

Well, thank you very much. And to wrap on it, just to say a few other people have mentioned Elysium. I need to go back and watch it because any film that has Jody Foster in it, oh well yeah, if you don't know she was, you know, everybody's heard of Skull and Bones, which is you know, almost two hundred year old secret society. Yell. She is in the Manuscript Society, which is the first secret society for females

They they've got to show us, don't they.

There's there's some caveat somewhere that they are bound to a deer to where this legal cosmic loophole is that they need to show us via away of Hollywood. So it's in our faces and we watch it. I just add I heard word on the street. Word on the street is that Jodi Foster was the head witch of Hollywood allegedly. Allegedly. I'm just saying, that's some YouTube video I'm going to watch somewhere somewhere like that said, she's the Queen Bee.

There are I've been a few names thrown out there, people say the Kardashians, shar has been out there, Jody Foster has yep, yep for sure, and they're probably look the movie The Witches of Eastwick from the nineties, maybe late audience. So again it's in our face. So well, there you go. Thank you so much again. I really appreciate your time, Mark.

And you're welcome. George.

Thank you all the success in the world with your book, and folks, don't forget Mark's link to his book is in the show notes. His email is in the show notes as well as well as the links to everything we talked about today. God bless you all. Have a great rest of your week. Hopefully we should have another episode this Sunday night. Keep your head on a swivel. God bless you, and until we meet again, my friends, we will see you.

I know it's been a struggle.

I don't know you've had feel the tied.

Hell, don't by all the way, yeah, don't you feel the.

More you smile ain't the same. I saw you way go from you feel like you've.

Lost your way. Don't give it, No, don't give it and never is home. Don't let call the primise. It ain't done yet. He's gone up, glad, Why it's a way down?

Got up?

Let me come.

Why away?

God up? Y called?

I can see the straight beside you.

Child, you putting up the fid.

Oh, you're stronger than a thing. C Yeah, you're gone and be all right. You're accepting a dead found.

Beautiful.

You're shoving bride. Yeah, you're live and breathing. Move you can hold your head a pie. Don't give up, No, don't give in. Never loves home. Don't let gone on the primies. It ain't Donion's God.

I plant.

What's a way down?

The God of me?

Because don't give up. No, don't give in.

You never love home.

Don't let go on the promise. It ain't God likeness worth living?

What's a way town? The God of mine called? Why a play down?

The god sav.

Oh yeah, what's the play down? The god baby call? Oh yeah, got the TV cat.

Don't give up, No, don't give in.

Never do they go off the prim smell In and dumb Yas got up playing why Me kind of Even colts don't give no.

Dog giving, never home? Don't they go out the crimes?

It ain't done others worth eve in. What's the god of NICs.

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The god of needles? Why's due god of.

You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network.

Just the facts, ma'am m