The following presentation is a Al Marvis Studio's production.
When you look on the sky, do you feel the poll? The question why the stories told and left behind in shadows where the truth we find?
They built their tales on crafts and lives on theories they stake there.
Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files podcast. I'm your host is always George Hobbes. I hope everybody had a great weekend. As we record, it's Friday, October the twenty fifth, twenty twenty four. It's about one pm Eastern time, a beautiful fall day, and our guest Joel is standing by. We'll get her to her in just a moment. Just a couple of quick reminders. Please do stop by the website. It is theflat earthfiles dot com.
Check out the chat room. Every episode goes in the form of a blog post now when we put all the supporting documents, and if we reference a certain video, we'll drop it there as well. At your one stop shop, theflat earthfiles dot com. And of course, if you would like to be a guest like Joel is today, please do send us an email. It is fefilesguest at gmail dot com, and I think we're ready to bring Joel on. Joel, how are you doing today?
I am doing great, George. I am so excited to be on your podcast. Really, I need to contain myself if I'm going to main and maintain any semblance here of decorum, because I really am just really thrilled to be here.
I'm so thankful for your podcast. It really is one of my favorites.
I'm a podcast junkie, and whenever I see you've got a new one, I stop what I'm doing and I listen. I just think you're such a gracious host, and you're giving lots of people a place to talk about things where they don't have that sometimes in their real life.
So kudos to you. I love what you're doing well.
I appreciate that very much, and I should tip my cap to you because you are also a podcast host. Your podcast is entitled The Courage Contagian, which is such a clever title, and folks, I have the link to her podcast in the show notes, so please do check it out. She started in April, some very interesting subject matter, very high quality audio. I can't reinforce this enough she's such a great podcaster, and I think at the end of this ninety minutes you will head over that way
to listen to her podcast. So Joelle, please do take a few moments and introduce yourself to the audience.
Sure thing will do.
And just a quick side note, I'm glad you liked the name of the podcast. It wasn't my idea. The Lord woke me up in the middle of the night with that name, and like any of my good ideas, they really come directly from the Lord, so just glory to him.
That was his, So that's awesome.
My name is Joel. I'm from Minnesota in my early forties. I've been married for twenty years to my wonderful, adventurous, handsome husband. We celebrated twenty years this past summer. I have three children, ages twelve, ten, and eight, and they are the most spectacular children that have ever existed. I know every mother says that, but they really they are really special. So I'm just having the best time being with them. Before having my kids, I was a high
school English teacher. I taught primarily eleven and twelfth grade classes in literature and writing and media and editing, so I feel like, this is a way for me now to kind of tap into some of those old skills that I was able to put to use. But when my son was born, I took a break and decided to stay home and raise my kids in homeschool part time, and I've just it's been such a blessing. Prior to that, I think it's important to my story. I grew up
as a Baptist minister's daughter. So it was fun to hear your guest last week. We have a lot of similarities. Small town Yeah, small town pastor's kid, you know, just a beautiful, beautiful upbringing. My parents gave us the best gift ever, which was to introduce us to Jesus at an early age, and we've been My sister and I've been walking with him ever since. So I know that's not everybody's experience. Being a pastor's kid isn't easy for everybody, and it can turn out sideways sometimes, but.
My experience was wonderful.
The heritage handed down to my sister and I was a beautiful thing, and we are trying to pass that along to our children today.
So that's kind of where that leaves us.
That's amazing, and that is something I was thinking about when you were talking, because there have been so many examples, and I know personally people who were you know, preacher's daughters sons that have I don't know if it's just the automatic rebellion being in school with people who are not of the same mindset and it's you know, natural for a teenager to rebel, but that's amazing that you were able to walk the narrow path, as they say.
The other thing I did want to kind of pick your brain about briefly before we get to your journey.
What was Were you on a public school system or a private school system?
Yes, public school all the way, so, but my mom stayed home with us, you know, she wasn't working when we were young, and so I had that was different. You know when the eighties a lot of moms were out of the house. So I had that public school all the way. And then it became a public school teacher and so going to Okay, that's what you're referring to.
It's a public school teacher. Yeah, and that the curriculum.
I know every state's different to a certain extent, but what did you think what was your experience.
In regards to flatter specifically, or just social issues exactly. Yeah, I think, you know, I've been out of the educational system for twelve years, and so much has happened in those twelve years that I can't imagine what it must be like for public school teachers.
Now.
However, I was starting to see some cracks in just the way that we did things. I mean, just practically speaking, it's not the best model for a child. It's not individualized learning. It's basically, you know, I don't want to speak too strongly, it's kind of a prison where we forced kids to sit in a seat and do the same thing and expect the same outcomes. And when I decided to homeschool my own children, it came as a surprise to me because my husband was homeschooled and I
was public school. So it was a surprise, but I think I had seen the inside of it enough to know that there's a better way to do this. We can be a lot more effective. And I just wanted more time with my kids too, and I got that, And so I mean, if you can homeschool, it's just such a beautiful it's a beautiful thing for both parent and child. So I wasn't dealing with a lot of the social issues back then, but certainly just pragmatically, it wasn't the best methodology, perfectly stated.
Let's get into your journey to the truth. I always like to put it. You know, at what point in your life did you start to realize that what the guy on the news or whatever you know said you didn't quite buy into. Was it COVID or was it before that?
Sure, you know, I actually attribute my awakening to the birth of my three children, which I know sounds odd, and hopefully I'll be able to explain that as we go. But I, as you say, George, was a complete normy. I mean, I just didn't know that there was a different way of thinking about things. And so, as I was teaching in the public school, I was pregnant with my first child. I was planning on going to the
hospital and having a normal birth. And in my mind that meant I go to the hospital, I get the epidural, the doctor does all the work, I come home with the baby. And as any woman who's had a child knows, that's not really how it works. You don't go to the hospital and they produce this thing for you. You still have to do all this work. And so that was kind of the first chink in the armor, so to speak, of my mainstream thought. It just didn't go
well my birth. I mean, it didn't go horribly, wasn't traumatic, but it just was it wasn't as easy and perfect as everyone said it was going to be. And so by the time I was having my second child, I had friends who were in natural medicine saying, are you going to consider a doula or doing natural birth?
And I just thought they were nuts, you know, like.
No, I'm going to do you know, I'm gonna do the medication again and it's going to be fine. And you know, they were starting to talk to me about vaccines and stuff. I just I wasn't there. I wasn't ready to hear to hear them. And I can look back now and just see different people who had entered my life, family and friends who did try to talk to me, and I just I just wasn't I didn't see a necessity.
You know.
At that point, my second child, true to her nature, just came in wild. I mean I slept through my entire labor, woke up at two am realizing I'm an act of labor. We drove to the hospital, barely got there and she was out in forty five minutes. So I got a natural birth. Whether I liked it or not, but lo and behold it was so great. I mean, it was fast. My body actually knew what to do, whereas in my other one, my body was so disconnected, like they would say push and I would be like
I am and they're like, no, you're not. Like there was such a disconnect because of the drugs. My body wasn't even communicating to do the thing it was designed to do. With my daughter, it was like push yep, I pushed, she was out. I was holding her. I was home the next day walking with friends with her stroller, like no recovery. And my husband it was we laugh about it to this day, says, I really preferred, you know, the way we did it the second time.
That was so much easier for me, and good joke. I was like, really it was easier for you, you know it was.
It was an intense time, and so that was kind of the beginning, like, oh there was something to that. I think with my next one, if I have another one, I'm I'm going to talk to that Duela friend I'm going to talk to her and see, you know, I don't want the whole thing.
I just want, like, I want a little bit of it.
I want her to maybe consult a little bit on how I could do natural birth, but more like by my choice. You know, the natural birth was chaotic and crazy because I wasn't expecting it. But I recognized that if I went into my.
Third berth.
Knowing, you know, with the plan and kind of control, that would be the best. And so that's what I did, and that was the beginning of the journey. So each child's birth kind of led me progressively into more natural medicine and way of doing things. And then, of course I'm not working at this point. I'm home with these
beautiful babies. I have a little bit more bandwidth and a little bit more margin to kind of research and look into things that I just didn't have time for when I was working full time and people speaking to me about are you going to vaccinate? Are you gonna,
you know, do these different medical interventions. And a good friend, a chiropractor, brought me to the movie Vaxxed with Andrew Wakefield, and I just cried through the whole thing with I mean, she actually told me to cover my eyes for some of it because I had you know, there was a baby seizing on screen and I had had a baby at home at that age with that age, and she goes close your eyes, and which was good, but I just remember thinking, like, how come I didn't know this?
How come I didn't get like they didn't inform me about these things. I just brought my baby to the hospital and gave them over they got all their shots, and I didn't know.
And so that was that still weighs heavy on me as a mom.
You know, we do the best we can with the information we have at the time, but man, you want to talk about regrets. There are some things that I wish I could go back in time and do differently, and that definitely is one of them.
So that kind of hit me. And then with my second daughter, I was my middle child. I was already kind of of the mindset that.
I was not comfortable with these vaccines and I was going to stop giving them. Okay, she was about she was probably twelve months because we were in for MMR and I knew I didn't want to give that one, but the doctor just hassled me and really bullied me in the office and basically said, if you don't get now, I'm going to forget the name of it.
I think it was dip theory. What's that one?
Then yes, yes, yes, If you don't do this, these are all the things that are going to happen. And she just really really scared me and I ended up giving a vaccine to my daughter that I walked into that office pretty resolute that I wasn't going to do these things, and I did give I didn't give her the whole schedule.
I just gave her the one.
But I walked back out to the car and I just cried. And it hit me like, are you the mom or not? Because what happened in there. You went in with your mindset that you were not going to do a thing, and then you cut bullied by a person in a white coat because they're the expert. It just it hit me in that moment that the Lord said to me, Nope, you are the mom now, and
you have to make these decisions. And if you don't think that you're strong enough, then you're going to have to stay away from the doctors for a little bit until you feel like you're strong enough. To go back, and I never gave another vaccine, and I really dedicated the next few years to just I knew personally I could be armed with facts, and if I knew enough about a thing, I wasn't going to be pushed around
and bullied. I walked into that doctor's office not knowing much, just having an emotional response to a movie I watched. But by the next time I went in, I was armed with all these facts, to the point where I recognized that because of the research that I had done on vaccines, I was far more educated on vaccines than this particular pediatrician, because they're not very educated on vaccines.
And so.
I needed that for my personality to say, no, you do know what you're talking about, you have made a decision, and don't let yourself be bullied.
And so that really was the evolution of my journey. That was the beginning of.
It, just trying to be an advocate for my kids looking and then of course, once you look into vaccines and that, you start thinking, well, what else don't I know?
What else are they doing that's harmful?
And then I got into the cancer thing, and then I got into all sorts of stuff and.
Really this is just the Lord.
But he took every other interest and hobby that I was into fruitless things and just took them away. I didn't have any interest for them. And all I was doing as that young mom, besides watching and caring for my kids, was research all of this stuff. I had the time, and I had, for whatever reason, this desire to look into all this stuff, and it really hasn't stopped.
And it's such a blessing.
And I laugh sometimes and I think, like one of my fruitless hobbies was I loved media.
I loved movies, and I.
Could tell you any actor or actress who they were married to, what show they were in, like almost you know.
To it was a problem.
The Lord just over and I took that from me and said, I have something different I want you to focus on. And I just shifted. And there were other things too, just totally shifted. And this was my job and this was my new thing. And now it's research, but to me it's entertainment too. And I'm sure you feel the same way, George. As you're researching things. It is not a bore, it's not a chore. It's a joy to dig into these things and learn and hopefully do better the next time.
Yeah, I think most people in the truth community, no matter what their hobby was not so much their hobby, but those type of like for me with sports and I was the same way where you could name maybe who Jim Carrey's girlfriend in twenty twelve, was I can tell you what Mike Schmidt's batting average, how many home runs he hit nineteen eighty eight, those type of things.
And then you know, for me, I retired from the army and then I started looking into these things and kind of coming around to what you just were talking about, and I know I was floored about nine to eleven. And then but when you start looking into the medical community, oh my goodness, it's shocking. It is just absolutely shocking when you take the time. And here's the thing, shame on us because they don't hide what are in these vaccines.
They don't hide what is in our food. It says right on the side of the can bio engineered foods. It's right there for us to see. But you have to take the time, you have to make the effort, and it is for me, it was exciting, you know, connecting all these dots, but then you also hit a point where you go through this period of darkness because you understand how truly evil this world is. And you know the Bible, you know we are to be in
the world, but not of the world. And that's kind of where i've you know, when I realized that all the rabbit holes led to a spiritual war. You know, it's God versus Satan, it's good versus evil. Then you come to the realization.
It comes full circle totally.
And I think that was what hit me. I remember where I was.
I was in my backyard, had read something or listened to something, and all of these different rabbit trails that I had been following all these years, all of a sudden converged on this single point, which is the spiritual element that you're talking about, and it just this is a giant octopus and Satan is the head, and they're all related.
These are not independent things.
They all come from this source and its deception, corruption, and greet and the father of it is Satan. And it just hit me like, Okay, this is this is what we're dealing with, and these are not unrelated things. And that was a big moment for me, and I think it's one of the reasons. I love flat Earth so much, and I keep coming back to your podcast and I keep having conversations about it because of all the rabbit holes you fall into, whether it's pharma or
SRA or pedophilia or whatever. They are dark and they are nasty and they can make you. They can do a number on you. But man, flat Earth is like the most beautiful, joyful thing. I mean, you walk away from that feeling like my creator is right there and this place is beautiful. No, no matter what happens, He's got us. He's got this protection over us. He sees us. We are not just floating in some We're not some minuscule
thing floating off in this universe far far away. Like That's what I try to explain to people who say this flatter thing it's nonsense.
It doesn't matter. It's it does matter.
It even matters to believers who maybe this stop salvation isn't on the line.
It's a gift.
I have a friend who's research who's just embarking, just dabbling in flat earth, and I'm jealous.
I was like, Oh, you get to experience this for the first time, brand new, and I wish that I could go back and do that again.
It was just so fun and monumental and the only and I'm not going to say the only, because there's more rabbit trails to find, I'm sure, but up till now, this is the only rabbit trail that you come out of feeling whole and at peace.
And now you said it was a joyous and that there was not a transition period for you like for me, Flatter, Yeah, it was like a two weeks for me. It was a full two week period of disbelief anger. I can't believe I fell for this. You know, in the back of my mind had always thought, hou's water stick on the ball?
Why are we spinning?
But I felt and I was old, Yeah, I mean I was late forty nine maybe when I came across this, and you know, that's five decades of believing a lie. That it took a bit of an emotional toll for me. But once I got past that, I fell into all the other categories that you just mentioned. But there was a two week transition where I was just bull I mean, I can't even explain my emotions.
Yeah, I think.
My picture of our governing bodies had already been dismantled and broken.
I had already gone through that heartache.
I think through all the other it was very gradual, and all those other things were already broken down. So by the time I came to flat Earth, all those hurdles were cleared away. There was no obstacle for me to see the truth. And I think I had already gone through the heart brokenness of realizing that we were being lied to and then our government is not out to protect us and care for us. So I think I had already I had mourned the loss of that already. So by the time I came to flat Earth, that
was nothing. I was just like, well, you know, they lied about this. This isn't a surprise, So it was. It was a very gradual thing. For me, it was it was mind blowing. I mean, of course, I mean I was. It was twenty seventeen. For me, I was an adult, you know, it was definitely monumental, But I didn't there was nothing earth shattering. Nothing was shattered that wasn't already shattered, If that makes sense.
Absolutely, So let's get to twenty seventeen. How were you introduced to flat Earth and what were some of the things. Whether it was a video or a book that really put you over the top and led you to believe, and you do mention that you're still at ninety seven percent certainty, which you know, I think we should all remain open, right because we don't have all the answers. But what really, I guess led you to believe that we were lied about living on a ball?
Sure?
Yeah, And I do want to address the ninety seven percent thing and why I'm I'm labeling myself at that and get I we'll circle back to that. But as far as twenty seventeen and how I came to flat Earth, I really blamed my mom in the best sense.
She I came to flat Earth before she did.
But she sent me this really random video by Rob Skiba about giants about Nephelo. And my parents know the word and they love the word and they instill that in us.
And so she's sending me this thing that's in the world.
It's just a totally new thing, and it just ignited this fire in me, like, WHOA, that's not how I read it, That's not how I interpret it. What are you talking about? And just dug into that Rob Skeeba stuff. And this is before Rob Sciba was a flat earther too. It took him a minute to get there as well. But I was really into all of his videos just about maybe we were interpreting this wrong.
Were there really giants on the earth?
What actually happened between angels, the sons of God and women, you know, the whole Genesis six thing that can be a gateway into this And it just that that was so awesome. I mean, I picked up my Bible with a new fervor. I mean, okay, I'm going to go through I'm gonna read it again. I'm going to read it with this new perspective and see what jumps out to me.
And I loved it.
And it was in that season of time where I came across a Flatter video, you know, because the YouTube back then it would spit, you know, algorithm would give you us something else to look at that was in the same vein. And I remember it was actually O D D TV, do you know, yeah, I just you know, it was one of his videos, and I clicked on it just like you know, here I am, I'm ready like this is craziness. And I did come to Flatter,
just incredulous, like this is nonsense. This is hilarious. Like I'm pretty open, but this, you know, this is going to be good. And he did a lot with imagery and symbolism in media, and because that was, you know, a love of mine prior man, that that struck home. I mean, they are consistent with their symbolism and their imagery in movies and television telling us exactly where we are, whether it's The Truman Show or the Dark Tower or I mean, you name it. They are putting it out there.
And then he of course went through you can see too far. What is NASA saying? What is NASA really doing?
How?
And really breaking that apart? And so I think it was right. I can't remember which came first. I bet it was a funny thing happened on the way to the moon. I do think the moon landing was disassembled for me first crumbled first before I came to flatter. So it's hard for me to pinpoint what exactly came first. All of that is like a blur. I was just consuming all of that stuff so quickly on it was overlapping. But I do think it was moon landing didn't happen. Okay,
So NASA is a fraud. Okay, Well, this is NASA's the only real reason we can verify that we live on a globe. And if they're not a reliable source, then there's no barrier, there's no hurdle, obstacle for me to come to flatter because I haven't been there. The only only objective truth I have is NOASA on these
pictures which aren't real. So and you know, watching movies like Gravity with Sandra Bullock and seeing just how realistic they make those movies look, it just hit me like, we don't know anything that we see on TV is real, whether it comes from the news or it's a movie, Like, we have no way of knowing.
We really don't, at least I don't. I don't.
I don't have the skills to ascertain if something's been photoshopped or not so, and.
I'm at that point I don't even believe or know for sure that the people who they put in front of the movie screens are who they are, or if they are part.
Of the club.
You know, I know, it's just it's we live in a time of such deception. I thank Jesus every day for his word that I've got something firm to stand on because it you know, it can get a little dicey out there when you're questioning what is real. And if you don't mind, can we can we dive into
that ninety seven percent just for a second. I say ninety seven percent sure because being a truther and in this movement, so many things that you thought were one hundred percent true were shattered already to get to this point, and so you're really careful how you structure truth in your mind now because you know, hey, I was wrong before and I was so certain I was true. You really are more careful about how you hang on to
absolute truth in the future. And so my thing is there are very few things that we can know is absolute truth, and that's the Word and our salvation through Christ. Really, those are the only two things I would say I'm one hundred percent on, and I have because I'm human and because I've been humbled so many times in this journey to know, like, I really don't know what I don't know, and I'm just careful.
It's not that I don't believe it. I do. I really do believe.
We live in a flat, protected, immovable place. And the Lord revealed woke me up last night and revealed this really beautiful image and metaphor that I would like to share with you and your your guests, if it's okay, Joyce of course.
Yeah.
Friends, when they see me in this journey and talking about whether it be nine to eleven or you know, the moon landing, they get uncomfortable and they start to say things to me like, you know, we're worried about you.
We're worried.
You know, we are afraid that you're going to you're going to dive into this thing and you're going to walk away from your faith. And I understand why they would say that. Certainly a lot of people in my generation have walked away from their faith. They have heard something that the culture has said, and they have deconstructed their faith and they have never put it back together again. But there we go with that fear again. Right, I'm
afraid you're going to walk away from your faith. And I'm happy to report that that is the opposite of what has happened through my journey with Flat Earth or any of the other rabbit holes. And I want to encourage your audience to listen. If you are a believer and you have that book in your hand, you don't need to worry for one second that anything you learn is going to contradict that is true, is going to contradict the Bible. You don't have to defend it, you
don't have to do mental gymnastics for it. It is true and it holds up to scrutiny no matter what. And I have just gone repeatedly back to it to hold it up to truth.
And it is true.
And this mental picture the Lord gave me last night to kind of explain to people I think their fear is not only might I walk away from my faith? But you know, if you become too open minded, you become morally relativistic, where you say, can truth be known?
You know?
And then you can wander off into really dangerous landscapes of can reality be known at all?
Are we living in a simulation? Is just the matrix?
And that that is a crazy, scary place to be.
And I understand that.
But this vision, or I'll say it wasn't a vision, it was an image that the Lord woke me up with. Is two different ways of our minds to structure new thoughts and ideas. And the first way we have a truth, maybe we get it as a child, and we build it brick by brick, and we build up this wall. And it's this truth that we know for sure, and it's steady and it's firm.
But any new.
Idea that comes up against it, against that brick wall, and it crumbles that new thought if it's not a strong thought, or worse, it could injure the person who brought that new thought to us. Or if this new thought is so undeniable, maybe you woke up and saw an alien at the end of your bed.
I'm just making something up, and it shatters that wall.
It shatters that worldview because it was so rigid, and your whole life was built upon it. And now we have a crumbled worldview. And now we're vulnerable to all thoughts and all ideas and what you know is anything true? And I think the non Christian can find themselves there too, and the Christian two of well, what is reality and
what is true? And the Lord he is so great he brought palone to me talking about Blessed as a man who does not sit in the seat of scoffers, but he is like a tree planted by streams of water whose leaf does not wither. Who's he bears fruit in season, and all he does, he prospers. And I feel like that rather than the brick wall, the Lord wants us as we're forming our worldview and based on him. Our roots are plugged deep into that soil, drinking from
that living water that is Him. And the stronger those roots go down in our faith, then we can grow up like a strong tree, and our branches can go out.
And as a new idea comes.
Yes, we can bend and twist and sway in the wind of these new ideas, and we can evaluate them and even hold them for a time, and we can evalue them against the scripture and toss something out or keep it.
But the tree doesn't break.
The tree can sway and bend and hold it without fear because we're so rooted in Christ's word. And I just thought that was so beautiful and he is so faithful, because I think that has helped me when talking to people, like I'm not going to break over this. This isn't something that's going to shatter my world's view. And I'm careful, and that's the ninety seven percent. I'm like a tree
planted by streams of water. My roots go deep into Christ and his word, and I can hold the other things in sway and I can respond to new ideas. And that's a huge part of what I try to convey on my podcast is it's the courage contagion and the idea is, you know, someone comes to you with a new thought, don't respond in fear and shut it down and just destroy that new idea or the person bringing it to you out of fear that it's going to destroy you, you and your worldview. And I think
about this a lot, especially with my physician friends. And I love my family and friends who are doctors, but because of the education that they go through in med school, they absolutely have to build that fortress of thought to get through med school to practice medicine. And the minute something comes that that's different than that, they have to they have to break that new idea or else it threatens to crumble the wall. And and that's how we get stuck. That's how we get stuck in these in
these ways of thinking. So God is so faithful. He just I just rejoiced that He showed me that beautiful extended metaphor of how I hope to you know, hear new ideas, and I'm sure, there's going to be new ideas that come to me in the future.
I hope. I hope so because this is a fun journey.
It is, and you hit on so many great topics there.
Uh.
Number One, you do have to be flexible in your journey outside of like you said, your faith. I've gone back into rabbit holes and come out with a different information, you know, some information that might you know, quell my original thoughts, or I take a different look at it from a different angle, and like you said, there's some out there you may originally believe and then you find out, no, that's not really true. So you should always be willing and that's the whole thing as a truth or you
have to be open minded. You can't just say that's that's what I feel, I'm not going to look any further, because that's the same reason we still have people who won't even look into flat earth because they that's I'm just not going to look into it. You have to be open minded when we're talking about these rabbit holes, of course. And the other thing that was very pronounced that you mentioned is when people think that if you go into conspiracy world air quotes that you'll lose your faith.
I can tell you first hand thousands of emails of people that flat Earth has brought people to God into Christ versus the other way around. So that certainly is something to hang your hat on.
Praise God.
I know. I just was talking to Josh Monday for my podcast. I first heard him on yours. He just did such an excellent job, and that's something we talked about. So many Christians say this is not a Salvafic issue, this is nothing to you know, divide over, which I agree with. This is not an issue we should divide over. But they want to say it's not important, So why stir up contention for no reason? And I say, it might not be a salvafic issue for the believer who
already has their salvation secure in Christ. But what about the person who doesn't know Jesus yet and they come to this book and it is so contradictory to science that they throw it away and they never come to Jesus. So, and I know you've said it before, this certainly is a salvafic issue for those who are not yet in Christ.
So I think it's important.
It really is.
And everything in the world I said it just the other day on my other podcast, I call it, you know, Satan's Trident, right, it's evolution, it's the Big Bang theory and heliocentrism. And unfortunately, these are the thing that are taught in are both public and private at Nauseum. And you know, our children are in Sunday school and church for maybe two hours a week, and then they're out there getting the matrix installed in their mind for thirty five hours a week.
It's an uphill climb.
And you know, children, you know, we in our lifespan, are really most influenced between you know, ten and fifteen probably, and that is the heart of the education system. So going full circle back to when you were talking about homeschool, and I completely understand that's everybody's not able to do it, but you really have to be very careful and even at the end of the night, what were you taught
in school today? Oh, we were taught that three guys went to the moon and they stayed there and it's incredible, the greatest accomplishment of mankind. You know, that's when you really got to sit down. And we do here. We use Alpha and Omega, but we also do videos and we kind of say, this is what's being taught in the public paradigm, and this is what we believe, and of course we leave it up to her daughter, but she's also on board that, Yeah, it doesn't make much
sense that we're spinning and this and that. And the other thing like you mentioned, which is something I'm not even sure is mentioned enough, is the crepuscular rays looking at the sun.
How far does the sun look?
Oh, no, a couple of thousand miles away, Well it's ninety three million, and little things like that. So one hundred percent everything you said is spot on.
Yeah, my daughter last night, my youngest. You know, they're at the age where there's there and they are in a part time Montessori program, so I homeschool then part time, and then the other part they're at. They're at a really wonderful suitet Christian Montissuri is the best of both worlds. But my dog's reading The Action Bible, and I recommend that I give that for gifts. I love the Action Bible. It's a comic book Bible, and it's just it's really great.
My kids all love it. But the first page, you know, talk about creation, shows this huge sun and this tiny earth, and she goes, this is what we believe. I can't remember, Mommy, is it is this what we believe? Or do we believe something else? And so, you know, I stopped her and I said, well, I believe it's the opposite of that, and I kind of described it again what I thought.
I go, but, Ellie, you know, this is what the world believes, and it might be right, and we should learn both and I want you to look at the evidence and decide. And I think that's kind of how I I've approached it with my kids. They hear all my podcasts that I listen to. I try, you know,
unless it's not age appropriate. I let them listen to what I'm learning, and I always say to them, these are just ideas, and this is we'd have to bring everything back to scripture and we can't know anything for certain, but I think I think this is the way it is, and I think the world is lying to us. But you're going to have to make your own decision about what you believe. And you know, I'm not against indoctrinating my children.
I'm really not.
I feel like if we don't indoctrinate them, the world is ready to do it, So I'm not opposed to that, but I do want to be careful just to say I don't know everything. I haven't been up there. This is what I believe, this is what I think the word is saying. But a lot of most people think it's the other way. So be ready to encounter that. And it's not something that I would want them to ever be bullied about or you know, come into break relationship with a friend over. So I'm really delicate in
the way that we talk about it. I try not to shame, you know, anybody who thinks glob wirth. I mean, as you've said one hundred times, we've all been there, and you know it is designed. So many things in our society are designed to deceive us, and Satan is really crafty. I mean, he is good at it the way that he deceives us, and we spend most of
our lives not even knowing we've been deceived. So anyway, that was a long way of saying that I'm trying to be delicate in how we go about teaching our kids. I know people have talked a lot about what they think is the appropriate way to educate their kids on this and to their own. I mean, I'm just trying to raise little critical thinkers, That's all I'm trying to do.
Just do your research thing for yourself.
Don't take everything a whole sale, take your time to look into it better what it is. Save this for later, because I certainly want to get to your mom and her journey as well. But one of the more hotter topics on YouTube and in the truth community is Satan's Little Season. Is that one of the rabbit holes that you've looked into?
Yes, I think it is so fascinating.
I don't know, I don't know if it's true, and I don't think this is not one that I feel like I need to make up my mind on.
Oh, I just I find it really fascinating.
Although I'll be totally honest, I think I first heard it on your podcast with Tyler fittest letter there. He introduced it on your show, and you know what, George, to my shame, I got mad, like that that is that's wrong, that that is just false doctrine and that's wrong. And then I had to giggle because gosh, I thought I had matured through. I thought that that was the whole point that I wasn't going to respond emotionally, and so I had to chastise myself and say, Okay, Joelle, he said a thing.
It was just an idea, and you got mad. Why did you respond.
Internally in anger? And that that caused me to dig in and just evaluate and listen. And I've loved watching videos. I think it's super fascinating. I don't think my parents are quite ready for that one yet, so but we you know, they love me no matter what, and we what's so fun about being in a relationship with them is that they will tolerate these conversations and join in and they're not afraid, they're not angry. They just say, tell us what you're thinking about, tell us what you're reading,
because who knows what it could be that week. So they're good. They're good to me. You asked me about my mom about her journey.
Yeah.
Yeah, So she sent me the giant thing and she's doing her own research and we're just we're just on this little journe together, calling each other saying what have you learned? Oh my goodness, I saw this video send it to me, and it was just it was so fun to kind of walk this journey together. And I remember when I came to flat earth. I can't remember how I had approached it with her, but she was like, that's crazy and I can't believe it, but she was.
She was on board pretty soon after. And then my dad, Sorry Dad, if you're listening. We joked about how we couldn't tell Dad about flat earth because once my dad learned something and he feels really strongly about it, he is not quiet. He will tell just about everybody, and so, you know, I don't think the whole world is ready for flat Earth.
So we joked about.
Maybe not not telling Dad about flat earth.
But he's on I hope I can. He's on board.
No, he thinks there's definitely really good scriptural evidence for it.
So that's really fun.
I mean, And to watch my pain parents, you know, they're in their seventies, and if you want to talk about a cliche or stereotypical Baptist minister in his seventies, that is not somebody who's got flexibility of mind or who changes their mind about scripture.
Man.
But to watch him just I mean, he rejected it out of hand. That's nonsense. This is not a thing.
And it wasn't just me.
He was reading some other things as well that were also bringing up the idea. But to watch him change and say, you know what, that actually makes a lot of sense.
I mean, it just.
Bolstered my spirit to see to see him just kind of say, okay, I can accept this.
I mean, it was a beautiful thing.
And I'm I don't know I can say I'm really proud, proud of both my parents or that's amazing.
So did he really get does he truly?
I'm sure he does, but I'm just kind of I mean, being a minister, and this is something that I've had a difficult time, I guess getting my point across how big of an issue it really is, Like it comes off you know what, does it really matter if we
live on a ball or not. But you know, as you as a truth or is a flat earther, as you continue to go down this journey, you truly understand the ramifications of the goal of Satan here on this earth is to is to hide God right, and everything is based on science, not the Good Book, not not God's word, And that is the big thing. And I'm so happy to hear your dad, who was a pastor for so long in his seventies come around. I wish, I wish so much that pastors would open their minds
and their eyes and speak this truth. This is very you know, it's not John three sixteen, but it is certainly a very important part of our life that is being hijacked by the by the matrix, by the Satan's evil system.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And he's pretty new. You know, this is a fresh, a fresh thing for him. And you know, my dad's not afraid to go outside of social norms. I mean, he sued the governor back here in twenty twenty one when they shut the churches down. Awesome for COVID, and he, you know, got churches back open in Minnesota. So he and you know, he wasn't popular for it. He got a lot. I mean there were articles about him in the paper, about this militia minded pastor. And so he's
not new to controversy. So he's not afraid. And certainly when he talks to people one on one, he's really open with them. I think he promised my mom maybe he wouldn't talk about it from the pulpit yet.
Oh well, yeah, for sure, I completely get it. It is something that you know, when I pastor odal and those folks. I do think it is. And by the way, kudos to your father for doing that. I'm sure, you know, especially being in Minnesota. The area is super you know,
progressive liberal, if you will. I don't like to label things, but I'm sure they went after him and that, you know, I don't know if you're ready to jump into that now, you know, twenty and twenty and how that that affected you and your journey.
Yeah, I'm twenty twenty. I mean, I still have a little PTSD from that. I mean, it was it was a really yucky time, and I know that the whole nation experienced it, but to live in Minnesota and we were going through the George Floyd Steph at the same time, so.
Things really blew up here.
And I'm so thankful that the Lord had brought me through some of these other other rabbit holes and other truths, so that by the time COVID came, I was pretty much aware that something was underfoot. I mean, the first couple of weeks, you know, they were showing pictures of people falling over dead, and we were all, you know,
all a little bit concerned. We had a friend, we were going to do Bible study and they wanted to do it over the phone because they were afraid to meet in person, and I said, yeah, that makes sense, and we did that, and then that was the last That was the last accommodation I made for this, because pretty shortly after that I realized it was all nonsense.
And I came to that realization unfortunately quicker than anybody am I circle goal, which was a lonely time because I'm an extrovert and I want to be with people and I don't want.
To do this nonsense.
And I was going to stores without a mask and just being I mean harassed. People were so vitriolic, they were so angry. They saw me as a threat, and they were going to let me know it, I mean pushed around in grocery stores, chased it, I mean old ladies screaming at me. And I felt bad and I did question, like maybe this is not the right thing. I don't want to cause this person to be afraid
that I don't want to contribute to their fear. Like Lord, jeezus, I really did ask the spirit for good discernment here, How do you want me to act in this really weird time? Do I put a mask on so that that person feels safe, that feels like the Christian thing to do. And I'm trying to be delicate here. The Lord really said to me this is it's it's all a lie. And the masks are a tool to push fear. And by putting one on your face, you are consenting and you're partaking and you're saying I agree.
And it was as it was.
A spiritual conundrum and conviction and I wasn't able to wear one. Not medically I could, I could breathe, I didn't have asthma, but I just spiritually couldn't put one on. And that was such a hard thing to explain to people. I the Lord won't let me put this on my face. It just it's it's a lie. So sorry, George. I'm spiraling into the memories of COVID. It was a tough time.
It was an unbelievable time that to this day I shake my head and it makes me it shouldn't but I get very angry. And that's why my other podcast, every six months, i'd play something called the Voices of COVID and for two hours I go back and I through YouTube, rumble wherever, and I take all these whether it's the governor of New York eating a hamburger and saying.
Hey, you can get a free hamburger if you get a vaccine.
To a pastors being arrested and thrown in jail in Canada, to moms in Australia on their Facebook page, you know, posting something anti vax cops showing up to their house and dragging them away away from their children. We can't write. There's some things that they, you know, when I say they the puppeteers or you know, the hidden hand, whatever you want to call them, have gotten away with whether
it's the moon landing or nine to eleven. You guys know all the rabbit holes that happened during our patrol, and I'm not going to let people forget it.
No, no, And I mean I birthed a podcast out of it. Really it was. My podcast was in response to this time, just feeling like we were trampled on and we lost some things that we can't get back. I mean, there are relationships that are still broken over what went down, and they stole stuff from us back then, and I just don't want to do that again. I want Christians, especially. My podcast is really geared toward the believer. I want Christians really to ask themselves, what is this messaging?
Is it pushing fear? Is it asking you to make a decision based on fear? Because it's a Christian We are not supposed to fear death, right. I think about those saints of old during the plague, who they were, the ones.
On the front lines.
They were walking into the sick houses, and they were ministering to people and taking care of them. Come, what may you know They weren't hiding in their houses afraid of some disease. The Lord asks us to be his hands and his feet, and we are not supposed to fear death. And so it broke my heart. It broke my heart to see churches shut down, to see people isolate, and really it showed to me that they didn't trust the Lord. And they might say with their lips they
think he's sovereign, but they don't actually believe that. And this whole nonsense about you go to the store and people would say, you're gonna kill me, or you're gonna kill my dad or kill my grandma. The Christians should never say that. We know that we do not decide the day we come here or the day we leave here. He has our days numbered and he counts all of our days, and he's in control of that.
And so I really wanted.
To just create a space where we could build a collective of courage, where we can say, guess what, there's another message here. There's actually a different way to think about this thing. Do we have to be afraid of X, Y or Z. You know, we can take precautions, but we don't need to act irrationally. The Lord does not give us a spirit of fear, but of love and power and self control. And that's how I want us to walk out this life. And I want to remind
each other we have a do as believers. We have a duty to serve others, even in scary times, because we had the hope of salvation.
And eternal life. Come what may. We might die of a virus, we might. That doesn't change our directive. That doesn't change what God has called us to be here to do one hundred percent.
And not only is it biblical. You know.
A wise man said a long time ago, never give up your your liberty for your security.
Never be that.
And by the way, kudos to your dad for standing up to that and we had mentioned before we hit the record button. We understand that the government, neither the right or the left, is looking out for our best interest. However, I can't imagine what it was like for you and your family when you found out that Waltz who was he was the former he was the former governor of Minnesota. Right, yes, correct,
it was going to be in the presidential race. That must have because I mean, like you mentioned, he's single handedly really destroyed Minneapolis, right absolutely.
I mean, as a Christian, you don't want to say you hold hatred in your heart for an individual and to really fight against that and want to pray for Tim Walls that he would come to salvation in Jesus and he would become a changed man and he would do the right thing. But it's difficult to see him
in this position. Although my mom made a really good point, she said, at least now he's in the spotlight and everybody's going to see all of the corrupt things that he did that we don't just have to know in Minnesota. The whole world will know all the terrible things that he did in Minneapolis. Just corruption, scandal, just mess with finances. I mean when the George Floyd thing happened. They basically stood by and let that said he burn to the ground.
They set the police precinct on fire, and we all stood by. And it hasn't been the same since. Minneapolis is not a place where law and order reigned supreme people are. There's ten eleven twelve year old kids carjacking, holding people at gunpoint, no consequences, people shoplifting thousands of dollars, no consequences. There's just it's scary to think that people know they can get away with whatever they want to
get away with and there's no ramifications. And it's hard to live in that environment when you are a law abiding citizen to know that that's happening. And a lot of people have left the city. And it's sad because Minneapolis is just it's a beautiful place. It was a beautiful city and he let it crumble. And I blame him, so sorry. I didn't mince words there. We don't like Tim Walls, I mean some people do. Some people love him.
It love Kamala too, and I'm sure they'll vote for him indeed.
And that's said not only in Minneapolis and Portland and you know, Kensington and Philadelphia, has become decimated. Even here in Dover, we've seen the homeless population. I always say, if we're going to get back to to truly make in this country great again, it can't be through governance.
It has to be through morals.
And it is kind of you know, we talk about how alarming and shocking twenty twenty was, but you see the debauchery in the world today.
What happened with parenting? And is it just.
That the parents of this world have become so of this world with TikTok and like, listen, there's good things on TikTok. So I don't wholesale throw these things out there, but for being in the spotlight and being of the world. What has happened? How Why has just the morality of this country gone in the toilet?
I personally feel that it's because Satan understands that families are so important the way God designed them, that fathers and mothers who are involved and invested in training up their children, that is God's infallible design, and he hates it and out he's out to destroy it.
And he's been on that war path for a long time. I mean he started with them.
I mean, I'm sure it started before this, you know, seventies feminist movement, but he's just destroyed the nuclear family and that is really where really great Americans are birthed and brought up. And if we don't have that, I don't want to lose hope. I just know that to find our way back, we need to elevate and champion moms in the home. We need a champion fathers who are around and who are teaching their kids the law
of God. And not that it's a dogmatic thing, but it's like David would say, it is the joy of his life. It is it is pure joy, the law of the Lord, because it produces righteousness and all good things in our lives. And I you know, I'm in a place now where staying at home, I'm not the odd duck out. For a while in the public school, to stay home, that was kind of a radical choice among my peers. You know, they thought that was very strange.
But I'm going to you know, I've got a new friend group, and that's a lot.
Now.
I kind of feel like that's a new normal, bringing homeschooling back, bringing.
Moms back into the home. I hope that trend continues, and one of.
The other things we can do is actions. Actions speak louder than words, and I tip my cap to you and everyone else who didn't, you know, roll into Walmart with your mask. And that is the other divide and conquer scheme, right, that they empowered people just to yell at you because you weren't wearing a mask, or you're five and a half feet away from them instead of six.
While I did the same thing. There were people who yelled at me and screened obscenities, but there were also the people, even people in masks, that would kind of look at you and nod their head like, hey, thanks man. And it's the same thing. Me and my friend we try to once a month go down town to Camden and we pass out Bible tracks and things of that nature, and we get a thank you, Like there's people who understand that, you know, we need more of this. We need to go out and be examples.
You know.
It's one thing for me to sit behind this microphone and you know, talk every week. That's only going to reach so many people. I think at some point we need to get out of our comfort zones and speak the truth in person. It's very intimidating and I know a lot of people it's it's a huge step to take. But once you take that step and you spend an hour, and you know, in a shopping center, outside walking through a parking lot and handing out these things, it's an
amazing feeling. It is such one of the greatest joys of my month.
I guess, oh yeah, and you know that.
I you know, when you were talking about people giving you a nod, I was working. I was walking through a farm store fleet farm, and an older gentleman, a veteran the Korean War.
Stopped me and shook my hand and just thanked me.
He goes, I just I this gives me hope that we haven't totally thrown away all the freedom that I fought for. And I almost cry right there to think, Yeah, that must be hard for these veterans to see all of us young people masking up and just not valuing the freedom that they fought for. And I think to see people say I had other people come and say I'm too afraid. I hate the mask. It makes me anxious,
but I'm too afraid to do anything. And then they see me without a mask, and they had the courage to take their mask off too.
So, yes, fear is.
A virus that pervades our society, and Satan uses it as a tool to make us all think and do the same thing. But I would like to counter with the fact that courage is courageous too, that we can do hard things, and that can signal to somebody else that they can do hard things. And I think it's just as powerful of a tool.
Amen, let's kind of make our way to your six silver bullets. Oh sure, having flat Earth?
Yes, back to flat Earth. I am. I'm going to pull them up here real quick. Sorry.
I always say scripture first because I've loved it my whole life. It's never led me wrong, and I really can't. I came to the biblical aspect of it after seeing odd and some of these you know, tangible experiments that people were doing with their cameras and so forth, and then once that scripture piece came in, it was just so it was like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm in if scripture says so like, that's all I need, even though I had the other pieces to it and I loved it.
Just what I talked about with going through the Bible again with fresh eyes, with the giants thing. I did that over again with flat Earth. And it's not just Genesis. I mean you can read the whole Bible, and there are scriptures through all of it, through the Old Testament, through the Profits, through the New Testament where this is highlighted and shown. And so it's so fun to read your scriptures and not have to like twist and bend and accommodate for science, but to.
Just read it how it's written, and.
It's a lot easier to understand and to say, Yep, that's just how it is, and it says that because that's the way it is. So I love that the Sun. I'm obsessed with the Sun. It is just it's been. It was created for us, Honestly, it was created. God gave us the gift of the sun to do so many miraculous things in our bodies. And I'm really learning That's one of the rabbit holes I'm going into now, is learning how the sun just benefits us and what
happens to us when we don't have the sun. And we can talk about bill Gates and chemtrails, but I don't want to derail us. But there's an agenda there, there's a separation they want to separate us from the Sun, and it's a really big deal.
But I love looking at the crepuscular rays and I'm always pointing them out to my kids.
Like look, look, look, the Sun's right there and these beautiful rays, you know, pushing through the clouds, and look at the angle on that. And there's so many videos out there just showing clouds in front of the Sun, clouds behind the sun, the Sun just kind of floating in between this pile of clouds, Like, clearly there's something behind it, there's something in front of it. I don't have to be super smart to figure out that that's
something that's really close to us. And then you just smack yourself on the forehead and say, how come I didn't see that before? Like or why like crepuscular rays they're at an angle, right, because that would suggest the geometry of the Sun being close, because if it were ninety three million miles away, all of the rays would come down perpendicular to the Earth and there would be no differentiation, Like.
Duh, why didn't Why didn't I think that?
So? And then the stars another forehead smack thing there too, like oh yeah, all of these monuments that were built all over the Earth to line up with these with these star patterns, but they're thousands of years old. Well, weren't the stars different two thousand years ago than they are now? If we're catapulting through this ever expanding galaxy.
And I've brought that point up to some Christian friends who are not on the same page, and they say, oh, but those light those stars are so many trillion billion miles away that even though it's changing, it's so far away that it's negligible. It doesn't really make it doesn't really look like change. They are changing, but it's so minuscule because they're so far away, that's what they say.
So I, as you know, the way to really disengage the mind from something is to throw numbers at something that just break your brain.
And then you.
Say, okay, well, because I can't calculate the billion trillion, I'm just going to tap out and leave that up to these business right who know what they're talking about. But as soon as you realize, like, oh, their theories, oh and it's changed ten times. Oh and the textbook that was published this year is different than what it said last year because they found something new and they changed like you know that that invalidates them. We can see too far. I love this one. I love this one.
I think there I mean conversation over right. I mean they give us a formula, they say there's curvature, and I mean I haven't done any experience personally. So here I am trusting a video from somebody else, but over and over again, thousands, you know, thousands of feet of curvature that are supposed to be that just aren't over thirty forty fifty miles away.
We can see things.
And that that to me, I was suggested, It was suggested to me by some leadership at our church to read Danny Faulkner's book Falling Flat is like a counter Are you familiar with that book, George vaguely?
Okay. It's like it's a Christian.
Counter book to the flat Earth movement, and it's put out by answers in Genesis. And I read it, and I was it was, it was, it was difficult.
I read it.
I did my due diligence, and I kept looking for the part where he debunks the formula. I said, we must, we must be calculating this formula incorrectly. That's the only thing that must be happening here. If he's going to debunk how we see too far, he's going to he's going to surely go to this chapter, he's going to put the formula, and he's going to say, these flatter earthers are not calculating this correctly.
I never found it. He never, he never addressed it.
It wasn't there was It wasn't brought up the fact that we see too far.
Yeah, and that surprised me.
As soon as I saw his book cover.
I remember this book because he even on the book cover it's the disc with you know you're going to fall off the edge.
Yeah, yeah, you know, And like we say, they're on their own journey.
But also you build a career out of something.
It really does you kind of have to stay in your brick walls, so to speak. NASA moon landing, Yeah, once that was shadowed. We talked about that earlier. And then my gut, and I know that might be overlooked, but when I say my gut, I really mean the Holy Spirit and I over this journey of going down these rabbit holes and really not not knowing is this material that I'm reading or this video that I'm watching. Is it true? How do I know what I'm accessing
is true? This author could be lying, this video could be manufactured. And I just continually go to the Holy Spirit and say, you are the source of truth. You speak to me all the time, you are faithful to do so. If I am wrong about flat Earth, I have said this prayer many times.
Lord.
If I'm wrong about flat Earth, Lord show me. I don't want to be wrong. I don't want to think wrongly about this. I want to be true to your word. I don't want to lead people astray. Reveal it to me. If this is a demonic doctrine, Lord, give me such a repelling feeling that I know right away, and I will say, only the opposite has been true. Anytime that I'm reading, like Danny Faulkner's book or other things that are that are going against it, I get that feeling,
that yuck feeling of this is wrong. Now, your skeptic will say, you know, she's got a preconceived notion and she's gonna emotionally feel the way she wants to feel.
And that's fine. It's subjective, but it is for me.
One of of the ways that I test a doctrine and test the spirit as ask the Lord to guide us, because he's faithful and he's the source of truth, and we should start there.
I suppose amen, one hundred percent. All six were fantastic. You know, it's funny when I was preparing my questions earlier for you, I didn't even realize that Revelations twenty versus seven and eight, which addresses satan little season, which I mentioned earlier, it actually talks about the four current of the four corners of the Earth in that verse.
Oh wow, look at that.
And of course, you know we talk about numbers, and you know they talk about ninety three million miles, but just put it in the matter of feet. How many feet is ninety three million my four hundred and ninety one billion, forty million feet? And you know when you talk about the crepuscular rays and everything else, that the sun is just not that far away. And then they talk about in our science books about the core of the earth and the and you know, we've only dug
you know, seven or eight thousand feet. We we just have to, like you said earlier, raise our children to be critical thinkers. You know, sometimes they are right, sometimes not. But we are in a timeline where I mean it could actually save your life, as noted in twenty twenty.
Mm.
No, absolutely, I think about that a lot. People say why does it matter? And I say, you know, maybe to the Christian it doesn't unless Satan is planning some type of big deception that involves space, like maybe aliens or whatever, and you're going to run and be afraid and do the thing they want you to do, just like you did with COVID. But what if you already knew that that was impossible, then it is consequential, then it does matter. So I'm you know, the Lord has
been so faithful. I know, I've said this one hundred times. He's kind of kept me a step ahead of some of this stuff, and I haven't had to I mean, I've suffered during COVID, just being feeling alone, that's all. But I never had to suffer what my friends did, which was feeling the terror of what was going on, because I had kind of seen the magician's trick, I will say, and so I just just shrugged it off and said, eh, this isn't what they say it is.
So I'm going to keep on living my life. And that served me well.
Awesome, we still have a few minutes.
I would invite you to talk a little bit about chemtrails because I've uttered it a lot on my other podcast and it's a very important topic. Many people think it is about poisoning, which it's interesting because it's barium and aluminum and that's b al and the symbolism, but I also think it's what you were mentioning something too, a spiritual entity to it as well.
Go ahead, Yeah, I mean I have been interested in chemtrails for a long time and just my spirit just sinks when I see them spring, because, like I said, there's something. There's something about the sun. I'm not saying we should worship it, but the God gave us this gift of the sun. I'm having a gal on my podcast next month. I'm not sure if she's a believer
or not, but she has dug in deep. She's a medical professional, and she's going to talk about all of the different hormonal processes that are started and signaled by the sun at different types of times of the day, and how it helps our cortisol and our melatonin so we can sleep, and just how we are so our ratio of light has been so thrown off that it's caused a multiple of problems in the human race, obesity and inflammation and so forth, And how like the sun is the key. We need to be in the sun
so much more than we are. And then I go out and I try to be in the sun. I can't because the skuy's have been sprayed with this nonsense. And I don't know.
I can't.
I've been asking myself ever since I was aware of it, what is their objective? Why are they doing it? I don't understand their motive. Are they trying to poison our soils? Are they trying to hide something in the skies they don't want to see? Are they trying to hide flat earth? Are they trying to hide how close the sun is?
I don't know what their objective is. I think right now, right now, I think they're just trying to keep us disconnected from the sun because it's so pivotal to our physical and mental and spiritual well being.
I guess that's all. I don't know any more than you do about it.
Really, well said, I one hundred percent agree with you, and my wife is more on top of it than me.
We'll get out of the car last week, I.
Think, and she just stopped and she's just shook my goodness and looked up and we had gotten a heck of a spray last week. And it was funny because I checked the chat room and sure enough somebody had mentioned they were somewhere in the Central time zone like you are, that they got really sprayed as well.
And they don't deny it.
They've had newscasts about it, and it's just something that you know there is it's not in our best interests.
I can promise you that it's not.
And I think it's hard because you know all the other things that we know about, whether it's GMO food or changed water.
We can do.
Something about that. We can buy ourgainner car, we can filter our water. But they feel like there's nothing we can do about what they're spraying in our skies, and so I can feel a little discouraged. But I just sometimes will say out loud, I do not consent. And sometimes we asked Jesus to move the chemtrails away and he does. And then at the end of the day, I remind myself God sees all, and whoever's in charge of this and doing this, there will be judgment as
he sees fit for them. And this is not our forever home. We are just passing through. This is a temporary experience. And the thing that we yearn for, which is this connection to God and a healthy, wonderful place. We all yearned for it, whether you're a believer or not, that desire is there, which is proof of a creator and God. We'll get that someday, and that's what I comfort myself with. There will be a new Heaven and a new Earth, and there won't be any camp trails in it.
No praise God, no camp trails, no bioengineered foods, no Monsanto, no vaccine.
Right, none of it, none of it all.
Yeah.
Did you have anything else you wanted to touch on before we signed off?
Anything else that you have?
Yeah, I mean, I mean the last closing thoughts? Yea, if you don't mind, I really want to make sure I hit on this. I have a pastor who I've listened to a lot on different shows. He talks about is it safe for the Christian to be a conspiracy theorist? And I think he wrote a book. I should have looked it up before I came on. I think it's
called The conspiracy and the Christian. His name is Pastor Doug van Dorn, and I'm going to butcher his quote, but basically he said, to the response of the question is it safe for a Christian to be a conspiracy theorist, he says, not only is it safe, but it is our duty because the world can go run and chase these rabbit trails and get sucked into all sorts of nonsense and craziness. But the Christian is rooted and tethered
to the one and only truth. And since we have the truth, it is our duty to search out a matter and to speak the truth of it to others and to guide them and help them see the truth. And that just was such an encouragement to me that that's that is our duty as believers. And I just really want to talk to any of your audience memberists today.
If you don't have that far foundation, and you're not tethered to Christ and you're jumping down these rabbit holes and you're seeking, ever searching, ever thirsty for the truth, and you're just coming up realizing there's another rabbit hole around the next corner, and you will never come to know the truth. I'm telling you that truth can be found in Jesus. He is the last piece to any puzzle. He is the key that will open the door. He says of himself in John that he is the door,
the bread of life, the living water. He says all these things about himself, and most importantly, he says, I'm the Way and the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me. So I'm telling you, if you hear my voice on this podcast today and you are searching for answers and for truth and you want that solid foundation that George and I are talking about, turn to Jesus ask him to be that, because this latter thing is so fascinating and so interesting.
But really it doesn't matter. At the end of the.
Day, when you die, He's either going to say to you, well done, good and faithful servant, Come and join me in my house, or depart for me. I never knew you, you workers of iniquity, and at that moment, flat Earth won't matter to you.
And I just want to remind all of us.
Yes, but earth is so fascinating and it validates the word of God. But the most important thing is do you know him? And does He know you? And luckily the gospel is simple. Jesus just says, repent and believe. So it is an open call. You don't need to be a genius. You don't need to spend thousands of hours jumping down the rabbit hole of the gospel. God puts it right there for you because He desires you to come into the kingdom. So that don't delay. That
is there for you. And I guarantee you, if you're searching, you will find the truth that will be a balm to your soul.
In Christ well said, and you know it's you know, you've read it a thousand times. But when you still here, welcome. You know your names in the book, or I never knew you? Can you imagine I never knew you? The man you've created you. I mean, there's all the things we talk about. There's nothing more important than getting to
know Jesus Christ. And there you know, really just to put a whole big bow on everything you just said, it truly trivializes all our worldly problems, right yeah, Yeah, you go out to a restaurant.
I ordered it medium. This is medium, well, and you.
Know all the first world problems we have, our air conditionings out you know when you talk about eternity, all those things we get upset about our football team losing by a field goal, all of these things are truly just trivial in the sense of how seventy or eighty years on this earth is compared to eternity. So everything you just said was one hundred percent spot on right.
And what are we doing with the short time that we have? Are we doing his work? Are we doing what we can? George?
I know you're doing it, and I'm so thankful, and I want you just to keep on doing it and bringing truth to people.
And you too, And make sure you guys catch her podcast, which is entitled The Courage Contagion. I will have the links in the show notes so you don't have to go searching for it. Her email address if you'd like to reach out, is the Courage Contagion at gmail dot com and it is in the show notes as well, so don't feel like you have to write it down if you'd like to reach out. What a fantastic guess you have been. And by the way, his book was
Conspiracy Theory by Doug Van Door. I have the link to that in the show notes as well, and I'm looking forward to reading it. Also, so thank you so much for your time. This was a wonderful episode and I'm sure it's going to mean a lot to a.
Lot of people.
Oh, thank you for having me George. It was a pleasure as well.
Likewise, and again, much success with your fantastic podcast, and folks, thank you so much for continuing to support the podcast. Don't forget our website, the flatterth Files dot com and if you would like to be a guest, it is fe Files guest at gmail dot com. God bless you all. Keep your head on a swivel. And until we meet again next week, my friends, we will see you.
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Just the facts ma'am,