Episode 161: Flat Earth Conversation with Jonathan

The following presentation is Del Marvis Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. I hope this message finds you well. As we resume programming after a brief break. It was great to see people in person last weekend in both Oklahoma City and Waco. If you'd like to see some of the pictures, et cetera, go to the other website, The fact hunter dot com. But

we're here. We have Jonathan standing by. Just a couple quick programming notes. Of course, stop by the flat earthfiles dot com Salo in the chatroom, leave your thoughts in the forum. We still have our slide show on

the homepage. Again, it is the flat earthfiles dot Com. Questions, comments, concerns, or you would like to join the podcast like Jonathan is tonight, please send us an email to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com and we'll send you a brief questionnaire and we will get you scheduled for an interview. All right, with that being said, let's kick off tonight's podcast. Joining us from North Carolina is Jonathan. Jonathan, how are you

doing pretty good? Good? You enjored I'm doing great, and it's a beautiful Friday night, a little chilly. This is I think the last cold night we're going to have for some time. I think it was fifty today. It's going to be close to ninety on Mondays. So typical East Coast weather. Oh yeah, very good. So go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. All right, Well, like you said, my name is Jonathan. I'm out in western North Carolina, currently enjoying a little spring rain.

Been out here about four years on a piece of raw land that my wife and I bought in twenty twenty. I believe before that I sort of lived everywhere. That's a big part of my story is just moving around a lot. I grew up in New York, originally till I was about fifteen or so, and then my father got a relocation on his job out to the West Coast. Wound up in California. And that was the big first culture shock, leaving New York and ending up on the West Coast. It

was like the first eye opener. I think, too, Okay, there's a lot going on in this world. It wasn't that long before I hopped on a Greyhound bus and headed back to New York because I didn't want to leave, you know, being a teenager, you don't want to leave where you're at. And I just figured that was the way to go back, all right, I can get the money up and get a Greyhound ticket.

I think I was about sixteen and didn't have a great time being back there, ended up back out wet and started traveling around the same time, and that was pretty much the last twenty years of my life was being on the road, traveling, living in a lot of different cities, the multiple different countries at certain points. And I guess the connecting factor in that is being a musician through that and touring with the band, multiple different bands, and

that being my main source of income was music and performing music. So and I'm sorry, go ahead, yeah. So, I guess at some point through that music I ended up in a pretty abstract border town in southern Arizona, and that's where I met my wife, and we had some land out there with a big group of people up on a mountaintop, and eventually I guess that fell through and we decided, well, we're trying to put roots

down somewhere. Let's go where there's water and soil, and we could we could build something and raise the family, and now I'm here and that's kind of that's kind of how it all happened. That's really interesting. That a lot to take from that. First all, what part of New York were you in? I grew up in Queen and Notatuck County on Long Island, so pretty close to the city there, God dot quite Manhattan. But and then what part of California did you go to? I ended up in southern

California, in the suburb of LA. That's interesting. I mean, I understand the East coast West coast thing, but I always I mean, I've been through LA a few times. I've not spent a lot of time there, and I wouldn't think what was the biggest adjustment from going from one big

city to another. Was it just the attitude the way of life? Well, I did end up in a suburb of LA that was being built up, so it's kind of a melting pot for a lot of people who had enough money to buy a new house because it wasn't a very big area and grew a lot, so it I guess, you know, the high school I ended up in maybe had three or four thousand kids in it, whereas in New York, I mean maybe there was a thousand. You know,

it was a culture shock in a lot of ways. Where I grew up was not an area of wealth, and I ended up in a place that was mixed up but had a lot of people that there's a whole different kind

of thing going on. You know, kids were driving cars up to the school that you know, I hadn't even seen before, you know, like it was kind of strange, right, And I grew up in a pretty rough area where people grew up young, and where when I got out WET, I was years beyond the development of my peers, so that was also kind of ostracizing, you know. And I know that was the biggest culture shock, was just how everyone seemed to have not grown up out there yet.

Yeah, that is interesting, and I know how impactful it can be to move during your high school years. It'd been in the military. I saw it firsthand, and you know, children would be very upset. Especially

There was actually a rule in the military. I think if it's your child senior year and you're on orders to move to PCs, you can actually get that waved for a year, because you know, children are resilient, but you know in that high school timeframe where the friends are so important to them, that can be a very tough move for some of that age between like thirteen and seventeen. Yeah, the reason they call it transplanting. You know, if you've ever had a garden, there are certain times where it's a

delicate operation. Yeah, exactly, that's a great analogy. Yeah, that is tough times now living in a You said you lived at a border town in Arizona with other people. How was that? It was fun? It was a bit strange because the landscape was so I got all right, So I'd gone down to the desert every year of the southwest of the US every year for probably ten years before landing there. It was sort of just a

pilgrimage I would make as a traveler. You know, you go down to the southwest in the winter where it's warmer and there would be work down there, So you know, I'd end up down there living in that town. It's a really strange place. There's a very very large mining operation that happened there in a massive mine of the Queen Mine, and so it's a very kind of like like I guess science fiction people would be like it's an alien

kind of place. It's high up my lands. There was sixty five hundred feet up on a mountain you could see Mexico, mostly New Mexico and Arizona all at the same time, and it'd kind of been taken over by say, artsy types, you know, gotcha, So it's Renaissance. Was a lot of the hippie generation that kind of just figured out it can get some deep down there and started you know, arted and painted and that type of folk. So a bunch of oddballs, you know, the wild, wet,

easy need to be there. No one really had any money, you didn't need very much, so interesting time. Yeah, the reason I asked is because I get a lot of emails from people who almost say, I wonder what it would be like to, you know, have that type of living conditions with like minded people where you just go out by one hundred acres and you know, you build some buildings. And because, to be honest, the way the world is headed right now, people are looking for places

to kind of hunker down with like minded people. I'm sure it has its benefits, but I'm sure it also has its drawbacks as well. There's no perfect Uh, you know, there's no perfect living style. I guess right. Yeah, that utopian idea has been on my mind for many a couple of decades. That's probably why I ended up like that. For sure. You mentioned twenty twenty is kind of when you you know, went but your land. I'm assuming you're right there by the Tennessee border, kind of on

in western North Carolina towards Yeah, the great area by the way. And was it a coincidence it was twenty twenty or did you see something coming which basically happened. Well, it's a coincident, but not a coincident that was totally uneducated, I guess, you know, living down there in that town in Arizona, I had already been hip to a lot of the things going

on in the world. And one interesting part is the road that led to the land we lived on was about a mile or two long up the mountain, and there's only one road up and the only other place up that mountain was radio towers that the government had on top of that mountain. Really, so there was always this kind of eerie vibe on the back side of the mountain. Knowing that that's why the road was maintained, and you know,

there's an intensity there in that town that is unsettling. There's a lot of for lack of better words, like supernatural lore and dark energies about it. Well, that's one of the reasons that I was deathined to leave there. And in twenty twenty, it was really obvious that I needed to go find a safe place to be. And I'm not sure if I would have if I hadn't been in such an odd, dark type of place. If that makes sense, Absolutely, it makes sense that was there a certain reason that

led to that you chose North Carolina? Was a property taxes? Was it the affordability? Well, so, I guess I've traveled just about everywhere in this country, so I had a good idea of what was out there. You know, I've been to just about every state, been through most every city in the country. You Know, I knew I didn't want to live in a city. I wanted to be far out of the city, and

I knew that there are certain places that were beautiful that were inhospitable. You know, I'd lived out in Oregon, southern Oregon and northern California and Washington, and I knew I needed land. I needed a place where you could homestead, a place where you could get water. You know, we were all on rainwater catchment in Arizona. We had probably thirty thousand gallons of rainwater

catchment on the property. And my wife happened to be from about two or three hours from where we're at now, so she was in love with the Blue Ridge Mountains already and they were very valuable to her in her heart. And I had toured with my band through the area here before and had gone out into the mountains, so I've just kind of intuitively was looking at a map, I think, with her one night and we said, well,

we got to go somewhere. Where are we going to go? And we just looked at the map and I looked everywhere and there was red flag here, red flag there, And it was like, well, I remember that place being pretty pretty good. Let's go out there, you know, Let's go look, and you've got the land and you're literally building from scratch, right, you just bought the land and you're building the house yourself. Yeah.

I mean we hopped in our little pigup truck we had at the time with our two dogs and just drove straight across the country without anything, picked up some work in Texas around Austin to get some money up, came out and just started out in the mountains out here to see what the land was like. And we figured, Okay, well we don't know how we're going to make it happen, but we're going to do it. So we went back out to Arizona and said, all right, we'll stick it out through

the winter and then when it warmed up, we're going. And then by the time it warmed up, the pandemic had, you know, gone off, and it wasn't so much. So that was the coincidence part. You know, we were already playing and do it, and it just happened that the timing of it in the state of the world is like, well, you weren't wrong, do it now? Yeah, I saw one of your six silver bullets. Was intuition, and I think I was the same way.

Leaving Texas week we got to Delaware here February fourteenth, and I think twenty nine days later is when the pandemic kicked off. So similar stories, and I guess as a musician, Austin is obviously a great place, one of the music capitals of not just the country, but the world. Are you a rock and roll guy or you a country guy? No, I'm not a rock and roll guy. I wouldn't say I'm a country guy.

But what I mostly played was older music, old early jazz, early blues, Americana, really folk and stuff like that, from you know, going all the way back to the late eighteen hundreds into the a lot of nineteen twenties stuff like Kansas Joe and Memphis many that kind of stuff. Yeah, they're in there. Of course, a lot of jug band tunes is where it started. And then I got living in New Orleans for a bunch of

winters and really got into the early jazz. So that's really cool. And you know, it's interesting because a lot of the people I met up with last week at the live shows, many of them are musicians, which is interesting to me. A lot of people in the truth community also have a passion for music. Uh, maybe there's a critical thinking link in there with music. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not surprised. That's the that's really interesting. So let's talk about a little bit about your your journey to the

truth. I guess what was kind of the first rabbit hole did was your parents were they Were they conspiratorial minded for lack of a better words, or is it something that you kind of came into on your own. Yeah? No, absolutely the opposite. It's almost the laughing matter how how much that is not true. Uh, I get I've got one brother, and both my folks and my brother are very much, I don't know, cut from the same cloth. You know, they think a lot alike, and I

was always kind of the odd one. I get they definitely were not conspiratorial. I didn't pick it up from them, you know, I picked it up from from just from being I guess kind of fair. You know. I was kind of just out there in the world, and you just got to adapt everywhere you go. You know, my life has been a lot of moving and adapting and learning what's going on here? How do these people act? You know, what's this town like, what's this town like?

What's this kind of music? What are these chords? Just adapting over and over again, and also being free and not locked into anything. And I guess it just kind of jives with my personality type. And you know, I think about this because I listen to your podcast and I hear people talk about what the first thing was. And that's one of the most interesting parts that to me, and I've been thinking about it, and I don't know when it started exactly, but I do know that it was about twenty fourteen

or fifteen. I'd been living down in New Orleans for a bunch of years. We'd go to there every winter on tour and we'd save up the money on our way down to rent a shotgun house or the whole bang, and then we'd stay there about five months and play music and that's when we kind of we're in one place for that time of year. And I was hip somewhat to the nine to eleven stuff, because you know, I grew up right next to that, and the year I left New York was the same

year that happened. So there was this weird connection that had with it that felt like I just made it out, you know, like I just got out of the pot before it boiled. And it was kind of felt like that. And I remember I was living in a real rough area in New Orleans and a bunch of people in one house and I had like a little bed that I'd made out of scrap wood that we found, you know, from house that was getting torn down and we just build furniture, you know,

and throw it out. At the end of the time, we were there and I was sitting there on my phone and I'm just looking through YouTube videos and I had a buddy at the time that we were sharing stuff together because he was real like minded. And at some point I came across this video and I don't know how I found it, but it was a video on flat Earth, and the fella, I can't remember his name, I

don't know the video. He was this real, like well spoken black dude that was sitting in some sort of like like it almost looked like a TV show. He was doing like this weird little interview and he started breaking down all this stuff and I was looking at it, like what am I looking at right now? Like I don't even know why. I'll just go and I'll just I'm just interested in stuff. And he started talking and by the end of that video, I had to get up and just like walk around

in circles. I was thinking, what did I just see? Like why does that make so much sense? Yes, what's going on? You know it didn't, It didn't immediately, but it's hard to think about. I guess that's that's something that you don't get to talk to people about a lot. But when you really try to visualize what's going on, certain things make a lot of sense. Like you can think about the ocean and it being level because water is level everywhere else. That's right, and it's easy to

visualize that. But then there's certain other parts of it that are so they could be so normal, but because we're so indoctrinated with the globe and with all of the science fiction and all the movies you know, we put we've had all that stuff put in there. It's like it's almost like trying to

make up a new language or just speak a language you don't speak. You know, there's a capacity we have in our brains, and I'm sure everyone's different, but to get to a point where you can really visualize all of it. So I just kept looking, and I spent that whole winter just going down that rabbit hole and I went deep and you could find anything at that time. I'm sure you know you talked about it before, but there were plenty of videos that you could look at ye from all different perspectives.

People do an experiment, you know, it was just the wealth of stuff up there, and I think twenty fourteen fifteen is when when that really hit and that was the first thing, like the flat earth was the first big like red pill or whatever you want to haul it, that that happened. To me, that blows my mind when I hear people say that, because I guess for me, like I've said before, it took me so many things to realize I've been lied to that I thought, you know, maybe

it's possible. I mean, everything else is a lie. It just impresses me that it is some people's first red pill. And when you were talking, I was imagining myself because it is life changing. And I'm not being dramatic. I remember, just like you were saying, walking around in circles

and thinking what what just happened? That this can't be possible. And we got into email just I think two days ago from a listener and he said they were at Bible study, I guess this past Wednesday night, and I think he brought it up and it just the place melted people left and the pastor you know kind of you know, browbeat him. And so to me, when when something sets people off like that, you truly realize it's spiritual.

And also you realize how much energy that they put into the sye OP and it is so many layers to it, through television, through through commercials, through the Internet to logos. They subconsciously beat the globe into people's heads to whereas if it's challenged, it is the ultimate. I mean, like like David Weiss says, it's the quickest way to lose the respect of your friends and family. Absolutely, And I do want to say on that topic.

You know, I lived very much like in a weird place with society. You know, I chose the life I had. I wanted to travel, you know, I lived on the street for many years. I lived in bushes and trucks and road treight trains, and you know, I wanted to do that because that's that was what it was inspiring me, and that

was me being an adventurer, you know. But but that being said, I lived in the fringes with a lot of people who were not quote unquote normal, you know, a lot of people who had wrote off a lot of parts in society already. So those are the types of people that I would meet in my life, people who were not accepting of the Nords you

know, and I think like the Illuminati. And you know, when I started to learn and look at money and feel like currency and really see what was going on there, I had been through that for years without knowing I was going through it. You know, We'd be sitting there playing music on the street and it's just easy to see society and the darkness and the light and all of it is moving all around you. And the people I was around, you would think would be really accepting of an idea like the flat

earth. They'd be like, what tell me about that? What's going on? Who's lying to us? But it's just so big and so deep. I mean, I remember the winter that I learned about it trying to talk

to first couple of people I tried to talk to you about it. We were sitting out on Stoop in Orleans and looking up at the moon and I said something about the moon and this girl just looked over at me and laughed in my face and made me feel like I was like, whoa, And that was weird, you know, Like I was just like kind of putting this pepper in this in there to see what shook loose, and it was

not a good reaction. You know. And then I had another buddy who I brought it up to you, and he just got angry, like like genuinely angry with me, like a friend of mine, you know, a dear friends. And uh that that was like another whoa, like what's going on here? You know? Like and then and then I started to look.

You know, Luckily there was videos out there at the time where other people were sharing like your podcast does, which is what I think is really cool about it, Like, yeah, people are gonna get mad at you, like people you love are gonna are gonna do like weird like mental gymnastics to try to like not hear what you're saying. He ended, It's very strange. Agreed. And one thing I've noticed I should mention, Uh, there there's some big names in sports and entertainment that have kind of come on

board the flat earth community. But one thing I noticed, and then I'm talking the big names out there, they don't get to the nuts and bolts of it all. They don't mention that it's all about hiding God. Well yeah yeah. And if they do mention that you're not gonna hear it necessarily, I maybe maybe it flips out here and there There's plenty of people who have been onto something really big and it flips out. A lot of those

people disappeared. You know. I don't think that the people who are that wealthy and that famous, when they turn onto something like this, you know, they know to be careful. I mean I would know. You know, you got to. You gotta be careful of this world. You know, you can't. You can't prop up the our government and and the and

the the globalist agenda can only be propped up by tyrannical forces. Like you know, you can't just pop out and say hey, you know, and if you do, you got to be willing, you know, either be mocked or be credited, or lose your job or worth or you know, they're consequences, you know, speaking up, Yeah, there is. But the more of us who get on board, I think, yeah, the

less people will be. You know, there's power numbers, as they say, And especially in a time when every single week you see d C sending out billions of billions of dollars to other countries, that you think people would care about what little funds are left in this country. And then one of the arguments I try to talk to people about is the slush fund that is NASA, And I know you had mentioned NASA is one of your six silver

Bullets. Did you want to speak on that? Yeah? Absolutely, And I agree you think that people would get it's not outraged at least a conversation going about where all this money's going or you know, it's those big things like chemtrails, billions and billions of dollars going to other countries, especially when you know this money is going somewhere and there are people who stand on peace and you know, I guess you know, the left side of the aisles

who are like yes and all this money like, well do you realize where this money is going and what it's doing? And now so is the same thing. You know it, you know it. It blows my mind that those big things get swept under the rug. It's it's not really surprising anymore, but it hurts my heart a little bit to see it because people will just turn off, you know, they'll just turn off like it's just too

big. You had someone on your podcast the other day that was talking about words in the Bible and and I think they said some long lines of like, well, that's one of those Biblical words it's just above my head. You know, I don't get it. You know, I think that little nippet, that concept of like, well, I just don't get it and

I can't think about it. Yeah, that critical thinking, that thing that you really need to say, No, I'm gonna think about it, and I I and I'm going to trust myself to know that I'm an adult or I have a good head on my shoulders and I could think about this thing. You know, that little thing right there, I feel like is what keeps a lot of people back from opening up and being truly open minded to making a decision and being convicted and what they're doing, you know. Yeah,

and that's really that reared it's ugly head. During COVID whither, you know, I'm not I don't know anything about medicine or germs. So they just went along to get along. Absolutely. That was another not to get too far off the NASA thing, but that when you know, when the COVID thing happened, there were lots of people in my circles so to speak. You know, people in my community is that I would never think would

just kneel down and do what they're told. And I was literally in my bucks, driving across the country looking on the internet and seeing people that I was living with posting pictures of their vaccine cards, and I was just like holding my head, wringing my hands, thinking what what is happening? Like you know it? What is this? You know what? What is this? What is this deception? How could how could people be going along with

this? You know? It blew my mind. And the NASA thing that was one of my silver bullets, because you gotta get there, you know. I think right after I looked at the videos of flat Earth, which I never really stopped doing. But the moon landings was another thing like, oh my gosh, like I always knew it didn't seem right. I was too young to have seen it on TV, but it was just part of you know, I'm thirty seven years old. So if you're anywhere in that

pocket, it just was in your life. We went to the moon, it was dangerous, some weird stuff happened, and we haven't gone back. You know, that's just a narrative. It's just like if you're a kid growing up and you're told, uh, you know, a horse is a cow and you call it a cow or whatever. You know, you don't know any better. It's just part of the story of the world a you're

living in. So that was another big one. When I started looking into that, I was like, well, what do you know, Like these these folks are are really like you know, that taught me a lot about compartmentalization because a lot of people when they ask, well, how are they getting everyone to go along with this? Now, this was the perfect example. So there's a lot of people that work for that company. Now you think that everybody who works for every company and he knows what the CEO knows

or where it's pulling the strings, they don't know. Someone might just be answering phone, you know, like someone might just be really good at build an engine. So they build an engine, they send a rocket up and they're told whatever they're told. You know. Uh, it blows my mind that they're putting that much money into it. But you know, when you really look at what money is, it's just an easy way for them to

keep going. Is the money, you know. I think actually some people are probably proud that some of their money is going to NASA because they think they're doing good stuff, you know, and literally it's you know, obviously you know, if you believe the official narrative, then man's greatest accomplishment is going to the moon. But NASA in any way, shape or form, really truly besides a prideful event. You know, sorry to use that word, but you know, for lack of a better words, well, what

has NASA done to better humanity? Yeah? Great question. I mean that, you know, my generation I'll speak for I'm sort of a Generation X but millennial. At the same time, there's a lot of people that are my peer group age that are just into it because it's the thing. You know, it's the narrative, it's the religion, you know, pseudoscience as a religion. It's like there are a lot of people out there who might go to church that don't really have the foundations of what that might mean.

And there's a lot of people that follow NATHA and science fiction and all this stuff that are part of it and interested, but they don't really know what it means either. So there's just a lot of people kind of going along with a lot of stuff. Especially after the Internet and all the short detention span things, it's like everything's in the periphery. There's no focus, there's

no light of sight anymore to anything. Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know, as we were talking, I went back and I think of the stories that they had to create to continue the lie and to keep Americans invested in NASA. Apollo thirteen, of course, was the big story. Mechanical failures. They had to use the gravity of the moon and all the subtle stories that they create to reinforce their pseudoscience, like gravity and globes and

the moon being a physical thing that we can land on. And something I always forget to mention if you guys Google, I'll put it in the show description the Robins medallion, which anytime they have one of these missions, they create a medallion. It's got three horses on it. It's in Latin, which again the Roman Empire never died, it just went underground. Some really

interesting stuff. But again, they have screenwriters. Really it almost seems like that do create these stories for the world stage to keep people bought into this thing. Yeah. I mean, like I've heard it said on your podcast before, every rabbit hole leads to this. You know, you have this podcast separate from your other for a reason. You know, it's a different room. And uh, you know, if you've ever been down in the

cave and crawl through and stuff. Only certain people are going to go certain thought you know so far, and you know that Hollywood, you know, is a rabbit hole that leads to this. The Roman Empire, you know, they all lead to it, and they all intersect at different times. The world stage is wild. It's one of the things that honestly hurts my heart the most. I think that, you know, the chemtrails people on

the world stage speaking, uh from every angle. It really does blow my mind, I think more than some other thing, just the math deception. Yeah, and as I get older, it saddens me to say people to see people jump onto the hook line and syncer every single time. And I really you know, even again, people who weren't really awake before understood there was something nefarious about COVID. But people are still quick to choose a side,

whether it's Israel Palestine or Russia Ukraine, you know. And of course now things are heating up. It's twenty twenty four, so you still have people champion and the right or the left. And it just bothered me that people can understand that it's that's all it is, is a show. It's to keep you divided while the people at the top continue to just absolutely pillage. And this hyperinflation is intentional because I do think that they are afraid of

a bit of an awakening. So if they raise the prices on insurance and things you can't control, you're right, you have to you have to have auto insurance. You can't just cancel it, right, just like an angry shopper or I'm not going to shop here anymore. Where you still need insurance for your home, you need insurance for your car, and these type of things. So they're able to tight, you know, tighten the nooses in the matrix to make you work harder, to give you less time to have

these type of discussions. Absolutely. You know, my my folks are a good example. You know, they're busy in their lives. They're born in fifty nine, both of them. They've led very similar lives. They're going through the motions. You know. Maybe my dad worked six days a week when I was growing up, and my mom worked as well. They didn't have a lot of time and they and in the time they did have, they were told but think and that's exactly one of the I mean, that's

that's a huge problem. You know, in any society that would be a problem if there was an experiment where you gave some people, uh in freedom to create something that worked well. You know. And again the garden analogy. You know, everything needs what it needs in a garden. You know, a society needs what what humans need. And and whether that's dictated by God or that's dictated by a government, there's very different outcomes. And it's

everywhere like it. It blows my mind every single day. It's a constant battle to stay up on top of not being deceived every single day, even for somebody like me who has been it, you know, a truther or in in you know, down this rabbit hole for over a decade, you know it. So imagine what it's like to just keep going and not be

like that. That it's everywhere early everywhere. And that's one of the things that's hard to communicate to people when you when you propose an idea like a conspiracy truth or uh you know, biblical flatter earth, they want to know, well, no, why would they do that? How could they really

do that? Like it just can't compute for people because they've just been you know, and that's the whole thing with h with the schooling, you know, I mean it's I'm sure that people listening have heard a lot of these ideas before, you know, not to go into to be the dead horse. But there there's so much indoctrination, Like it doesn't stop at the twelfth grade. A lot of people will say, well, I'm in a homeschool

my kid. Yeah, good, Like you got to start out with a good faith or a foundation for something you're building, you know, whatever that is, a house or raising a child, but it doesn't stop, and it's going to keep coming at you. You know, you build a good foundation on the house because you wanted to be able to withstand wait and wind and you know, all the things the house might take on. It's the same thing with a person, and we're taking the wind and the weight of

an entire you know, world government just pushing stuff down our throats. That's just wacky, wacky stuff. Yeah, And I think you A lot of people are envious of your your type of lifestyle because it sounds like to me, for the most part, you went in kind of debt free, getting the land first, taking your time to build your house correctly. Have you been able to find like minded people in your community. I guess you've been there for what close to four years now, Yeah, just about four years.

And you did say did I buy raw land? Yeah, we bought a piece of raw land. That's all we could afford. At the same time, it's what we wanted. Yep. I guess maybe it's a coincidence, but yeah, I could see people being envious of it. People used to come up to me as a musician and be envious of my lifestyle.

And you can't really tell someone like uh. We used to have a joke in the band uh years and years ago that was, well, just give us all your money and buy a hat and you could be just like us, you know, like, get rid of your money, get yourself a hat, and go do it. Because we were doing something that anyone could do, you know, yes, and and nowadays you know minus, you know, if you have certain handicaps or certain things in your life you're locked

into. I understand you can't just drop everything and leave, but you can do it, yep. If you try, you keep trying, and you can do it. So yeah, it's not can always be easy. It's not always easy living on the road, but there's a lot of freedoms about it. You know a lot of people work their whole life just to get in an RV and drive around the country. Uh. You know, I just skipped the work part and went and did it, you know. And now we're building. Yeah, we're building a house. I've got a two

and a half three story house that and you're in front of you. That's uh just about got a roof on it. I've been here four years. We got here, we started building gardens, you know, we we started raising chickens. We'd already been first in a rough life and traveling and living primitively, so we we just hopped right in. You know, we started clearing land. We started we bought a land that was south facing, you know, with with multiple springs on it. Uh spring, plenty of spring

water. You know. We we just dove right in and started doing it and figured, well, we'll get the house done when we figure out how to get the money. And you know, we've been just doing that for four years. I think the hardest part, whether it's uh, you know, having a conversation with someone about flat earth or christ or doing something out of their comfort zone, the biggest problem is just taking that first step.

And I think going back to the matrixes, and I know I've said this before, but they've made people so comfortable they don't people are afraid that to fry. And there's so many people say I wish I could, I wish I could. You can do it, you really can. You just got to take that first step, absolutely, you really can. You know, there's something to be said for hitting rock bottom too. I've seen a lot

of people in my life hit rock bottom. In fact, a lot of the Christians that I've personally met in my life that were the closest to me were people that had hit rock bottom excuse me, and come out, whether it was AA or just personal revelation or something, and come out and and found, you know, a solid grounded light. You don't have to have lee if you already have stuff and you're living, you know, a somewhat normal life. Yeah, you can definitely do it. You just have to

do it. You got to take the step in. Uh. There's a lot of things that I did not know how to do at all that I just stepped into and learned because I was passion it. I was like, I'm gonna figure, I'm gonna figure it out, you know. And and there is truth to the fact that you can learn anything on YouTube. I've learned everything from operating ham radios to fixing trucks to raising chickens. Oh yeah, YouTube university. I mean, that's that's a huge That's been huge for

me when it comes to homesteading. I mean, now that I'm out here, you asked if I'd met like minded people. Yeah, I have when it comes to homestead because I found an area in a in a you know, rural in the mountains where the traditions were self reliant. So a lot of the folks that I know who do that are quite a bit older than me, you know. And then there's a whole bunch of people my age who also somehow landed right out here. You happen to have kids around the

same age and are trying to do the same things. You know. Call it a giant coincidence. It's not odd to me because I've restarted so many times in my life that I have complete state. I didn't come out here worried if I was going to figure it out. I just came here knowing I was because I'd done it so many times before. And whatever it looked

like I knew I would just go through. That's awesome. Do you live close enough to a town too, you're able to go in and play music for a few days and make a few bucks or yeah, you know, have a daughter and the pandemic really slowed things down. But I live twenty minutes from a town where I've got weekly gigs to some and what I guess, thirty five forty minutes from a small city where there's plenty of places to

play. It's a little odd now, I guess in my life because there's been such a such a division, you know, within everywhere in society that I don't I don't resonate the same way. I don't. Yeah, I've just become a little bit different. So it's not as easy for me to just be in those places anymore. There really has to be a good foundation of the music. So I'm not doing it as much, but I am still doing it here. Yeah, you can live really real and they'll do

normal people thing. Absolutely. And the reason I wanted to kind of lead back into music for just a moment, you know, when you know, I'm an eighties I've graduated in the eighties, so you know, the sixties seventies music it was all about rebellion and telling the man, the government to take a hike, right. But now these same people now that they're older. I don't know if it's just because they understand if they don't go along,

they're going to get canceled. But it's just weird how music has flipped on its head when it when just you know, maybe a generation or to a go where music was all about we're not going to Vietnam, that type of thing, to you know, take your jab and obey the government. It's kind of blown my mind to see that same generation from the sixties and seventies turn into these, you know, walk the line type of people.

I'm not yeah, I'm not surpriuded of you say that. I'm not exactly how sure old you know, how old you are, but I imagine that it would it would be for a lot of people. There's probably a good chunk of people out there that are saying the same thing as you, people from a generation where they saw that and then see what's going on now and

they're just thinking what happened? What happened here? I mean, I fully agree, and I think that that's one of the things that blows my mind the most since the pandemic, people really stepped in line with stuff who I didn't think would. But but there's something to be said too for for fads,

you know, and and people being led. You know, I'm sure there were a lot of people in the late sixties and seventies that were just going along with what popular culture was, you know, and maybe they partied, and you know, maybe they you know, we're like sticking to the man and this and that, and then a little time went by and things changed and they had to figure out their life, how to raise their family, and how to have a job, and you know, they just get

led down another path. Like if it's not really deeply in your heart and you're not the type of person to be to not forget about your convictions and what's really important, it's pretty easy to be led astray over and over again, you know, not not crazy. It'd only take what a couple of generations for people to forget history completely, right, Yeah, And you know that's a big passion of mine on how history is narrated through those who control

the history books. They'll talk about certain things, but other things they'll completely leave out. And maybe put a paragraph and in history too in college if if you get that far again, you know, it's his story, and that's something that again, it's a narrative. The same with NASA. It's it's a narrative. And it's a shame when you when you try to tell people the truth about you know, certain presidents and things of that nature,

where maybe they're not really the good guys that they're meant to be. You automatically. Once again, it's almost like when you're bringing the flat flat earth up to people, it triggers them just because they've been programmed for twelve years. You know, this guy was the greatest president ever. You try to say, well, you know, he arrested twenty thousand of his own citizens. He tried to have a Supreme Court justice thrown in jail, on and

on and on. Just like when you're trying to say something passionate about flat earth you talk about curvature, you know, how water always finds its level, and the fake moon landing and the treaties and everything else, they get triggered. It's the same, it's the same play. Yeah. Literally, you know, my mom's the history teacher. She was for the last twenty

years and she loved it. She loved history. If you look at her bookshelf, she's got all types of books from George Washington and all this stuff. And if she's going to go on a trip somewhere, which she doesn't do often, to go to some historical site here or there, you know, And and it burns me up that people stop at a certain point. It's like, well, don't you want to know more? Like don't you want to really know what the history is? It's like, how interested are

you in history? Like just in the story? Like is this just a Netflix special you're watching on history? Or do you really want to know? You know? Like, well, because there's a whole nother history, Like there's so much more. It's really fascinating. Yeah, it's kind of hard to swallow. But like we're here for you know, this period of time. I'm like, don't you want to know? I think that's part of the problem. I think they'd rather keep their head in the sand. Like

again, they don't want to go out of their comfort zone. Yeah, that's very true. I've always gone out of my comfort zone. Yeah, likewise when it comes to uh, stuff like that. So I get that that's not for everyone, like again, to bring my parents back up. My dad, you can't bring anything up to him without him. He just got he just laughed. He he does not want to know, just not the type of person that is going to be open to it. And a lot of people claim to be open minded. Uh, and that's led down,

you know, to all the stuff going on. Now everything's inverted. You know, everything's backwards. It's backwards world. You know, there's open mindedness turned into fascist Yeah, like real quick, like in just a few years. Seemed like, you know, in about a decade it went from being open minded, uh to just absolute like you said, just absolute fascism by the people who are claiming that that the other folks are the fastest. It's just unbelievable. Like you said, it's backwards world. Yeah, it

is backwards world. It really is it again, it just blows my mind. I I'm amazed by it every day. You know. I grew up in a family where my parents, I guess my mom had been Catholic and my dad had been Baptists, and we didn't really have religion in the family. We go to church for some holidays, and my grandfolks were a very

big part of the church. And when it comes to communities of people that you know, so like they were also democratic, right, I guess, so I just grew up to get like, yeah, like open minded, like don't judge people, be open minded, you know, like don't be you know, it's really like plugged into you if you grew up in a democratic family that the other side are like these evil people, you know,

which it is just another division thing. But it took a long time for me to realize like, oh, like what you know, it's really like in twenty twenty, that's what it really hit me. When all the stuff started to go down. I was like, oh my god, like my whole life. I didn't realize how device into this whole thing was and how backward it is people who say there one way or another way, and these people who are considered evil are actually doing these things. And I was like,

I mean, the pandemic woke me up. It just as big as Flatterer, to be honest, Yeah, that was a tough time for a lot of people, especially when I think that's about twenty twenty one is when I realized that, you know, the did this country is really beyond repair that it's been hijacked by very evil people, and they basically can do whatever

they want because they know they control everything. It's just, you know, to see people I without their family being there, their family members being allowed to I just saw so much evil that I just never thought I would live to see in my lifetime. Yeah, absolutely, and so much inversion of things that I didn't think was possible. That really opened my eyes. Because if there's one thing I thought was like a solid is that people were people.

You know, I didn't judge people I've got I've met people who I consider friends that are from every walk of life, sure, every age. And when that happened, it was like whoa, Okay. The people I thought were like, you know, really on board with not buying into this stuff or really buy it into it. And I didn't know about what I you know, I didn't I didn't know about Republican conservatism. I didn't know

about the church. You know, I was indoctrinated as thinking that the church and organized religions were just a joke, you know, just a cult of people that were silly or foolish. You know, I had all this stuff in my head that I thought was just the way it was, and it really really fell apart in twenty twenty. Yeah, and that's what I wanted to kind of come back full circle too. Is your sixth bullet is the Bible? And how through flat Earth you were able to understand your relationship with

God? Yeah, well it's I'm doing it right now. This is part of it. You know. I never grew up praying. I didn't. I was just kind of a feral kid. My parents are good people, they're loving people, and they took care of us. It's not like I was in destitute or anything. I had all the opportunities, but I was

kind of left to my own devices and didn't have that guidance. And then the communities, the people that I had been in for the last you know, a couple decades, everybody shunned the church, everybody laughed at it. In fact, a lot of people I met were either excommunicated from their families for that reason, or you know a lot of people that were just far

from that realm. It was not part of my life. And when I started looking into the flat Earth stuff, other things that had happened in my life started connecting, and it was like boom, boom boom oh whoa, whoa, and you know I had been somebody that you know I had. I had had some pretty crazy experiences in life. I hear sleep proalysis seems to come up often on this podcast, which is interesting. Never thought that would be tied into this community, but apparently it is. So there's got

to be something there. I've experienced a lot that in my life and I had to work through that. I've had multiple different experiences with psychedelics that have brought me into places and opened certain doors. You know, a while back, I got the there's a quote, I forget who it is, maybe Ellen Watts, like, once you get the message, hang up the phone.

I've kind of subscribed to that because after you go into certain places, you see and experience certain things that need you need to be very grounded afterwards to make sense of and maybe that takes a whole lifetime. So I do think there's value in it for certain people, but I do not think it

is a way of life for everyone. Maybe there are certain people who are grounded enough that that that's their path is to kind of be like some sort of I don't know, like a shaman or something something where you know, they're bringing light into the world through that. But after having all of the experiences I had in my life, once I started to look into the flat Earth, I started to realize that a lot of people were talking about God. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And immediately it was

kind of turned off, you know. And then I thought, well, why am I turned off by this? It makes sense, you know, let me look into this more. And then I started looking at references from the Bible that talked about and a lot of other you know, ancient cosmologies that all kind of led to this interesting They're all kind of connected in a certain way. A lot my first real interest was like, why can't we go certain places? So all these old cosmologies were like talk about the north

you know, underneath Polaris and and what's going on there? And I thought, yeah, what is going on there? You know, what is going on at this abstract seuth pool that there's just like minimal information about. It's like a video game where there's just this part of the map that doesn't make

sense, you know it. It kind of struck me like that. That was like, I think the first thing that brought me closer to wondering about God, and I was I was thinking, Yeah, I was always told like, there's no new lands, there's nowhere to for, you know, there's nothing, nothing we haven't figured out, buddy, don't worry. You just keep on going, you know, plug away. And and I wasn't

cut out for that at all. So I immediately was like, headstrong, No, I'm gonna I'm gonna think about that, like I'm gonna think about all the stuff that y'all are telling me not to. I'm gonna go in there pretty hard. And that was really the first thing that brought me into it. And I could keep going to if that's all right? Absolutely, So I was if you've ever been out in nature, or any ever really done any work out in nature. I don't know why it is working outside

brings me closer to this. But I had an experience out in Oregon at a forty foot school bus that I bought a bunch of years ago, and I was making it into a cabin so i'd have a place to live in case everything else failed. And I was standing on the roof of it and we're out in rural Oregon and there's pine trees all around and I'm looking and I'm painting the roof white, and I just had this really strange feeling that

felt really good. And I looked up at the sky and it just felt like it was enveloping me, like it a certain type of way that I'd never really felt before. And immediately I realized what the thing was and it never left me. And There'll be other times where I'm working outside where I'll have that same feeling since then. Given this is after I learned about flat Earth, but it never really connected it. You know, I'm the type

of person that really needs to connect something. I need to experience it. If I'm going to learn a song, I need to hear it, I need to be able to sing it in my head, and I need to really understand it. And that was the first time I feel like I ever had an experience that I would say was or I was communicating with something or something was communicating with me, and I had that those dots really connected.

And I wish I could say, well, I'm in a kind of interesting place because I've had so much of my life been told that, you know, religion is is kind of a farce and this and that, and you know, people are really apathetic and they're just sort of going through their day to day and not really feeling and thinking. And I've never met I've never been a part of the community of people that were a Christian that I can relate to you like, I've just never been to one place for that love.

You know, I don't really know how to approach all that, but I have my experience with God, Like I've never been to church in my adult life ever. But yet I've been praying more and more over the last years. You know, sometimes every day I'm just praying and I don't even know why. It just feels right. It just feels like the thing to do. Not in a sort of way where I'm intrant, it's just like, yeah, this is a good thing to do, Like we're here for

some reason. We're in this place that that has obviously been created by something. Either's no doubt, not even a feather of doubt in my mind. So yeah, it brought me a lot closer something, and I haven't quite figured out what it is yet. Yeah, that is the common response to flat earthers, people who were, you know, full out atheists, Like

like you said, some people who thought religion was a joke. One of the first things full stop, people realized that, well if this is if we're not on a ball and everything else, and this was cleverly designed, then there is a creator. And then it leads people down their path and it's an amazing journey. And for it still blows my mind that for some people like yourself, that it's their first rabbit hole, because it is the

ultimate rabbit hole. It is the one that they you know, the controllers, for lack of better words, they put the most effort into the globe. Your Star Wars movies from the seventies. It was to subconsciously reinforce the globe, the globes in every classroom, the globes at every TV show, I mean, on and on and on. They put so much work into

it. And when you realize, when you get to the nuts and bolts of it all, to realize that I call it the Big Three obviously, you know, with evolution of the Big Bang and then heliocentrism, it's all

about hiding God. And that that's why, like you said earlier, this does desire its own podcast, It deserves its own conversation, and hopefully we'll find a way to kind of knock over people's you know, to get people to know, normalize, I don't even know how to phrase this, but to keep it from being such a shock factor, right that the flat earth. Yeah, well, when you have those conversations again, I get emails all the time, people get the courage to bring it up and they almost

feel humiliated. People from people they've known for decades, right, and they know, you know, you're best friends for decades. You bring it up and then all of a sudden, you know that they just assume you started uh ingesting mushrooms or something. Yeah, I mean I'm already the type of person that people look at and think that that guy's got to be a weirdo. You know. I've so that's already kind of a handicap talking to people,

and I forget about it. I mean, I've I've got a lot of tattoos, you know, and that you know, I've got tattoos on my faith and there are things that are important to me from your growth that I've had in my life. That's a very personal thing. And then and this happened before, apparently that's that's popular. Now there's there's all these people out there who are famous. I don't really understand how that happened. I

kind of wish not that it made I'd made different decisions. But I just hope that people don't keep doing that for the sake of h I think there's something very very important to it, and and people just can seem to be doing things that are just like careless, I guess, like very very careless

in life. But I guess what I'm saying is I'm already someone that people look at kind of like crazy, and then I'll bring up certain things and and then I'll think later, like, you know, they're probably just looking at me, thinking that guy is create. You know, they're probably just thinking, oh he is a he ain't right. Like, there's always going to be a reason that people come up with to deny things they don't want to think about, and if there's an easy one like that, that's the

one they're going to go for. Yep. So that's kind of like a little bit of a trick to it. You know. I really haven't spoke to people about the slatters and since twenty sixteen or so, until very recently, I started talking to a buddy I work with, who's the only one

who might listen to this, which is cool. He's just recently gotten down this this rabbit hole, and I am curious to see what happens in the future for me talking to people, because I've really been reinvigorated about it this year, especially finding your podcast was a big part of that, because I thought that it was just kind of dead, you know, it seemed like there were certain people who stuck with it, and that a lot of people just thought it was a thigh op or it was everything kind of get co

opted in this world. So there's a lot like the flatter the thiety thing. You know, there's so many reasons that you get taken off the path. I guess a lot of people that are just taken off of it, and I thought, I guess, I guess that ain't happened in the time

around. Yeah, and it's important that we keep pushing this narrative because people will say, oh, that's just a sigh op, that's you know, within the last ten years, and then you can show them, you know, uh, literally dozens and dozens and that's a low number of books that were written over the last several hundred years that that you know, argue with geocentric Earth, and you can go back to the exact same time that Copernicus

and those guys were pushing it, you had people like Martin Luther that were showing it as well. So this is nothing new. Unfortunately, like you said, the wild West days of YouTube are gone, and they don't really feed you an algorithm. I mean, if if you're looking at wrestling videos or something like that, they'll push it to you. But if you're looking at anything in the truth community that they'll they'll push a Professor Dave at you,

you know, flat Earth debunk versus what you're really looking for. Absolutely. I mean, I've just kind of become hip to the TikTok thing, not not being audit I've never been on it, but realizing that why they want to get rid of it because they can't control it, which is no surprise to me now that I've seen it. I'm like, oh, of course, you know, of course you guys are gonna do that China bad you know, like right, the di coms, that's always the shy coms.

Yeah, but there. Yeah, it's hard to find information everywhere. If you can have something in your heart, that that's in your mind that you can carry with you through your life. That is I think the most valuable thing that we can have what we teach our children. That is the

real value what we teach and pass down through generations. If we can keep that information and those stories unmolested, That value learning that you know, very like real important things that you can do in this place that are wholesome and moral, That value all the other stuff. It's it's just a bunch of chaotic noise. You don't need to listen to it. You can tune into

it now and then so you know what's going on. But you gotta be careful how much you do, because vibrations real, you know, frequencies are real, you know, getting images into your mind. You know, TV channels all all that. You know, there's there's a you could be really strong and still be susceptible to some bs, you know. Sure. I try to find that fine line as well. Monitor I call it, you know, if I tune into Fox or something, I call it monitoring the

enemy's transmission, just to kind of get a feel for it. But you gotta be careful because it'll get you sucked in and angry before you know it. Yeah, that's the radio, guys. Very well, it's been an awesome conversation. I want to you know, as we start to wind out, I wanted to give you an opportunity to cover anything you might have not had an opportunity to do so yet. Cool. Yeah, I've got some notes here in my phone, I roughly wrote. I didn't look at any

of them. Let me the hear well, I guess well. The first one I noticed that that has something to say is it says this podcast is my church. It sounds silly, but in a way, not having a church to go to, never being a part of a church. I listen to your podcast and I try to reach for a snippets of things that build, that help me, and I really value that really important and appreciated I think by a lot of people. I'm definitely on a trajectory of continuing to

look for that in my life. I have been since I moved here, as busy as I am, and and right now, this this is it. That's all I got right now other than just what's going on in my own mind. So that's appreciated. There's a couple other things in here that I do really want to bring up. Let's see, I guess, uh, wordage language was a really big eye opener for me. Danglish language. When I first started hearing about words was from a guy I think his name

is Santos Bonacci. Familiar with him absolutely, yep. Yeah. So he had been talking about maritime words and stuff when it comes to you money, so like currency, the currencies and the river bank bank and live stock and the stock market and all that kind of stuff. Are you familiar with what I'm talking about? Yeah? In addition to him, I think Jordan I

always get that. Yeah, yeah, that that speech she did on the rules of the sea and how words cut like a knife and the word word is within sword and you know, the whole maritime speech he gave us really awesome. Yeah. Absolutely, I did look int hips up too during that period of time. All of those things I think are something if you're listening to this and you're kind of like what am I listening to? What are these people talking about? That's a really good place to go, I think,

because it's really i opening. Once you realize how many words mean something, it's like, well, what the hell's going on here? Like you know, we lived in the week day, you know, like you're in a week days with of the weekdays. Uh, all these weird connections within words and spells and spelling and channeling, you start to realize that there's something going on. And the more you learn about it, I don't think anyone likes it unless you're I don't. I don't know who would like it.

But it feels a bit dark and a bit like it's missing the mark, Like there are ways to say things without missing the mark, like just saying good morning to somebody, you know. I think about it every day. I'm like, good morning, are we mourning? What? What? What is this? You know? Yeah, that's a great one. Absolutely.

Uh So I think that's something that if you know, if people were listening that hadn't thought about this kind of stuff, I would recommend they look at those talks and look into the into the words we use, because I think there's some some real value there for kind of opening your eye up to the world we live in. Because a lot of people will say, well, how could they be lying to us about all this stuff? How could they be you know, really pulling the wool over our eyes this big And it's

like we'll just keep looking, like you'll you'll see it. It's really big. It's kids huge. Let's see what else they got in here. Yeah, just just some some people out there that speak that are that are interesting. If people are on YouTube, there's a fella. Are you familiar with Doug and Daftyes, we watch him every Sunday night and we catch his midweek shows. He's part homesteader, but he's also part truther. Yeah, exactly. Folks like that that are still out there, I think are of of

good. It's really important for people that are still working in two things because they're still out there somehow. So that's awesome. You know, the whole pandemic when it hit, I think they're There were two days where I was freaking out. I've been working out my friend's restaurant. She owned it, me and my wife ran it. She ran in front of house, I ran the kitchen and we had to shut the doors, and I was freaking out. I was like looking at my wife, like you need to wash

your hands, like what's happening? You know. I was in fight or flight loads. It was about a day and a half went by, and I sat down and I pulled up my phone and I was looking at some videos that I looked at all the time from this fella, and I was like, and I looked out into the desert, and I've seen the towers that were on the mountain, and I just realized all at once, Oh,

everything's okay, don't worry. And I'm so grateful for that that I realized that quickly into it what was going on, because I never went and I I was cool headed the whole time through it. It was difficult. It caused a lot of a lot of drama in the world. But being being staying in tune with people that are genuinely trying to bring truth to the world is important because you need to be aware of how much deception is going on to continue to be a grounded person and be there for your family and

make good decisions. And you can put all of your your faith in God.

I think that's beautiful too, but there's a lot of people out there that might not have that yet or for whatever it is that there's a lot of value in finding and filtering out certain avenues and staying connected in the community of people who are really trying to call things for what it is so you can make good decisions because it's only going to get crazier from here on out, you know, absolutely, And I'm I wonder often how much longer they're

going to let Doug and Stacy stay on because I think there are a million people now, so they have quite an outreach. And he talks about everything from KEM trails to the government. So I'm he does kind of he's careful about what he says. He's very smart about it. But you know, he's got a very big stage. So I'm I'm very happy for him. Yeah, so on on that topic, good luck to them. I mean you could see it in his mile and his and you could see him in

the video. He's really there, you know, and you know, you know, either you're gonna find him or you'll feel connected. It'll work out absolutely. Jeff Berwick. I don't know if you've heard of Jeff Berwick. He's kind of a wild card and got a website called The Dollar Vigilante. He's like a very strange, uh, kind of anarcho capitalist dude. He's down in Mexico now. He does a yearly called Anarcho Poco. Have you heard of that. I've heard his name. It rings a bell, but

I'm not sure. Uh. Jeff for said the Final Solution Awake. Okay, I found his website. I'll put it in the show notes. I've I've heard his name, but I'm not one hundred percent familiar with him. Yeah, strange, dude. It it's his videos that I had been hip to that I was just watching to kind of stay up because it was fun and entertaining and say, shaded that part of my brain that needed to pay

attention to the world that saved me from the pandemic. To be completely honest, he wrote a book called The Controlled Demolition of the American Empire that was published maybe two or three years ago now at least that you can find out there. And he's got people like mac Egan. He's down in Mexico too now right, Yeah, he has. He had to leave Australia and has

not gone back. I think they were gonna they were gonna grab him fashion James Corbett and the Corbett recorded a bunch of people in his website in the trending section where they'll just be yeah, but the things that you might relate to or might inspire you in some way. I just wanted to mention those few because they're acceptable and a lot of the people do an incredible amount of

work like you do to put stuff out there. Yeah, meetings. James Corbett was one of my bucket lists being able to interview with him a few months ago. Tremendous guy. Awesome, that's great. Yeah, I've had an awesome conversation with you. I was. I was nervous about it because there's so much stuff you want to talk about. You know. I don't get to talk about this kind of stuff with a lot of people. You know, I've brought these things up with my wife in the past. Recently

brought it up again. Conversation did not go well. It was sort of a bort conversation to retreat, very very intense, you know. Yeah, you'll bring this stuff up with people. I think the flat Earth is is at least what I know of the big room in the bottom of the rabbit hole. Yeah, it's bringing me closer to God. It's bringing me to a place where I make better decisions in my life. The only other other thing that I'd really want to talk about. I don't know what times you

have a moment. Yeah, we still got five or six minutes, all right, there's so I brought this up at work. The other day. I'm self employed and I've got some buddies who are as well, and we'll

hire each other for stuff. And we were working on this old house and we're taking lunch break, and it got brought up and a buddy of mine who had kind of gone down this path before, he had some really like strong things of why he thought it wasn't the way it was, and he brought them up, and I've got a couple of the things he said in here, which I think are food for thought, because I think there's a lot of people that I've met that have gone down this path that have then

decided they can't think about it anymore. And I find that really interesting, and I think it's really important to mention because after all the flatters files, so that's got to be the main bread and butter in a way, and a out of all the people I've talked to, people either get very angry or they laugh. Those are the two main things. And then there is the other group, and they're interested in accepting, but want to kind of explain it off as this or that to kind of go on with their day

because they can't spend the time to think about it. And I understand that completely, and then there are some people who went down and tried to just prove it and just stop there. One of the things you was talking about was the sun take longer to go around a bigger circumference as a smaller one. And I know we'll probably won't get to all that in this in this uh talk, but you like, well, it doesn't make sense because the sun would take longer to go around the other tropic or the tropic then it

would the smaller one. So so it can't make sense that way, which got me thinking about the firmament and the shape of the firmament and what the Sun and the moon actually are and how they work. That's right, because the in the firmament is the further out towards Antarctica goes the wider it is, right, just like the tre you know that the two tropics. So it would make perfect sense that that's why it's important to let people know that.

You know, it is just like the Bible says, it's in the firmament, so you know, the the closer it is to you know, the center part during the wintertime versus the summertime is exactly look at where it would be in the firmament. Yeah, the days are shorter, that's right. It. I just think that that's something that is one of those things that takes the visualization. You might take some of watching someone show a visual

example of to understand, which I find really really fascinating. That's the kind of stuff I'm really into you. That's a really talking about. I was just going to send smaller set. Yeah that he said, Well, if makes sense because the sun would get smaller and smaller as set, and if it was flat, you'd always be able to see it. And that's when you got to explain it, like with a flashlight on a map. You know, when you turn on the flashlight in your backyard, your old yard

doesn't light up, just what's being focused on. Yeah, those are the kind of visualizations that I think that a lot of people stop at. Yep, agree if they are interested, and they go down and they're like, but no, So his idea, at least what he said is that he thinks it's round, but it's a lot bigger than we think. So he thinks they're hidden land, but he doesn't really subscribe to the flat part. And like, I like that because that's someone who's critically thinking like, he's

a really smart dude. I've got a ton of respect for him. So I love that perspective, you know, to someone who's really really thinking, he needs using his mind and opened the stuff, but has another idea about it. Everyone doesn't have tied to this, you know, not everyone's going to make it an important part of their life. That's right how it is. And he's he's just in his journey. So as long as he continues to look, who's to say that he won't actually take the time and look.

And when you were talking about those two things, what I wanted to mention was that's why I always encourage everyone to get that flat you know Dave's I think it's called the zodiac and flatter app because it's got that little question mark. And everything that we've talked about today, there's videos for. And that was the one thing I was worried about when I started this podcast, is flat Earth is one of those topics when you really want to break down

certain things. Video was extremely helpful. That's why when people will email me with questions, I'll go to the link and I'll copy that link to whatever subject that we're talking about. I'll send it to them and it makes perfect sense to them, because, like you're saying, sometimes video or you know, pictures are really help you with your arguments. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm

actually going to check that app out. I've heard it talked about on your podcast a couple of times and have it looked into it and I think it would be pretty valuable if I'm going to look that up. I just think that there's lot of things like that would be probably really good way to explain to people some things and be able to just pop it out and be well, check this out, you know. And if they don't care, they don't care. I'm not. I'm not worried people care. They don't.

I just know that if I was me and someone knew what I feel like, I know I would want them to tell me. So I'm always going to try when it feels right, when my intuition says say something, I'm going to say something. You know, it only brings good in my mind, absolutely it. You know, it's it's important information to have and you can lead a horse, you know, it's but it's up to them to take what the information you give them and for them to find their journey.

Because if you try to force feed, it'll it'll push them away. Yeah absolutely, And I know we don't have time for it, but I'll probably want sending you an email with some questions that I did want to bring up about the Bible that there's just not time for. So don't be surprised if you get an email from me about that. Yeah. Absolutely, And we'll put those links in. Yeah absolutely, and we'll put those in the show notes as well. We've got a lot for the show notes, including the

Dollar Vigilante. I've got the link to Jordan Maxwell's Maritime Admirrality law, Pollow thirteen. All kinds of great stuff. And if there's anything that you want to add, please, you know, feel free to share them with me before Sunday night and I'll get them or even past I can always add them down the road. But it's been a great conversation and it's very humbling to hear someone who's just you know, you know, just taking a piece of

land and making it their own. I've known so many people post twenty twenty. My best friend down in Texas he did the same thing about ten acres. Uh. He actually bought my thirty three foot camper before we left and came up here and they've been living out of that why they build their house and it's just the way to go. And again, you know, I learned my first War ire Act when we lived in a completely austere environment,

what it means to everything you do uh to survive. And there's a lot of people who want a homestead, but like everything else, you've got to have a you have to have expectations to realize not not every day is it is cotton, candy and ice cream. You're gonna have some tough days. And it's a lot of work as well. Absolutely, it's a lot of work. But the benefit out way, oh the negative and that work will make you healthier, it'll bring you closer to to the real way that people

could be living. Absolutely right, Well, we're we're out of time, but I do want to give you the last word to address the audience before we close. Appreciate it. I think that on that topic, you can, you can do those things, you can change your mind about things, and you can you can go out live like that. I know when twenty twenty happened, there was a lot it's just been trending. I'm gonna go out and get some land and get some chickens and do this, and that

you could absolutely do it. I came out here, given I'd already lived in a school box that was converted into a house for a year on the road. I drove it out here and parked it. You could do that with any type of camper, like you said. You know, we built the stepic system, made sure that we were a buiding by the county's rules. And then they and then they walk away and you're good to go. You know, there's a few things you gotta do, but you can do

it absolutely. We've raised you know, we've we've got more eggs than we could ever eat. We sell eggs to the local store. We have raised meat, chickens, turkeys, we've raised beef here. We've had you could fill your freezer full of meat. You could. You could grow as many vegetables. You won't even be able to eat as many vegetables or can them. You won't even have the time to do it. Like it. This earth is incredible and and you can. You can do it. Don't don't

not do it because because you're afraid. Because once you step in, like you said, once you open the door, and step your foot in there. There's a path there. It's a beautiful it's a beautiful path that you can go down. Yeah, it's gonna be really hard. We've raised it. My wife is not pregnant. When we moved here. We had a child here on this plant, lived off of spring water and systems that we

built here, and raised a super atome kids now three years old. It's absolutely possible, and you can do it all under under the fermament, under whatever it is that's going on here, you know, and it's like a giant bavarium. Uh. That is just the most amazing thing you could ever do. That would be my you know, that's my final word. You can definitely do it, and when you do it, it will only bring

you closer to what you're looking for. Hey man, well, best of I hate to use the word luck, but congratulations on having the convictions to do everything that you've done. And you've I'm sure you've built an amazing home for your family and you're going to have that for years to come. And one thing I really wanted to mention is to maintain history with your family.

You had mentioned that about ten or fifteen minutes ago. We kept a journal during COVID, and we're going to pass it down to our children, and I hope they keep it pass it down to their children because all of these things that they do, they use the same playbook over and over. And I hope that you know, whether it's one or three generations from now, the next time they try to do something like that, that people will have

that information within family to realize when they're trying to be doue. So God bless you and your family and everything on your homestead. Hope you have a bountiful uh you know, summer into the fall. And I look forward to your emails and I will answer your questions the best I can, and I'll share them in the show notes as well with the listeners. Thank you, George, appreciate you having me all right. Well, God bless it's been

an amazing another amazing conversation. Thank you to all our listeners. Don't forget the website, the flat Earth Files dot com, email the flat Earth Files at gmail dot com. God bless everyone. Have a great week. And until we meet again, my friends, keep your head on a swivel and we will see you. I know it's been a struggle. I don't know you've had I feel the tie hell down all the way? Yeah, you feeling more? Your smile ain't the same. I saw you wall go from

You feel like you've lost your way. Don't give up, No, don't give it and nevers home. Don't let call the primis. He ain't dumb Yankees. God up playing? Why it's a right time? God up? Let me come? Why wait? God up? Come? I can see the straight beside you. Childs are putting up the five. Oh you're stronger than any thing. You guy, You're gone be all ride. You're accepting a dead fouled beautiful. You're shoving ride. Yeah, you're live and breathing.

Move you can hold your head a pie. Don't give up. No, don't give in. Never lose home. Don't let go on the primise. It ain't done Yet's God, I plant. Wat's a waintel, the god of me because don't give up. No, don't give in. You never lose home. Don't let go on the primis. It ain't con of life. It's worth living. Wat's a wain town. The god bac why it's a place. God? Oh yes, what's a break down? The god? Oh yeah, got TV don't give up, No, don't give

in nevers home? Do they go of the primis I mean and done? Yeast got a playing waits kind of in it cos don't give no dog giving whatever its home. Don't they go of the crimes it ain't done? Others worth living in works And the God of ivy cos all the god of needs? Why the god of cage. You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'amy.