Episode 155: Flat Earth Conversation with Justin

The following presentation is Del Marvis Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. I'm your host, as always, George Hobbes. I hope this podcast finds you well and everybody's having a great week. We have a guest standing by. His name is Justin. He'll be joining us in just a moment before we get started, just a couple of quick reminders. Check out the website,

the flat earthfiles dot com. Join the chatroom, say hello, leave your questions in the forum. It's been very, very busy. I get notifications when people leave something in the forum, and it's been a lot of people asking questions and leaving their ideas, so it's a great place to to meet up and share ideas. Again, it's the flatterthfiles dot com. Questions, comments, or you would like to join the podcast, like Justin is

today, It's very simple. You drop an email to the flat Earth Files at gmail dot com and we will send you back a very brief questionnaire and we will get you on the list to be scheduled. And right now I think we're we're still two to three months out, but we are doing the best weekend to try to knock out, you know, a couple of interviews a week and spread the message of flat Earth and you know everybody's journey to

the truth. So with all that being said, again, we've been chatting Justin and I for quite some time, having some very intriguing correspondence and he's a very very well thought out guy, and I've been looking forward to this interview for quite some time. So without any further ado, let's bring Justin on the program. Justin, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing well. George, how are you great? I'm doing very well. Thank you. Go ahead and take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience.

Do my first and foremost if we just pray? Yeah, absolutely, Basically, let's go ahead and bow our headsply. Father, we thank you for this opportunity to gather fellowship today. Lord, as we speak together and your word is being heard by the listeners who George has gathered, and that you have given him this blackform. Father, we asked that your word be all

that we hear. I asked that it not being my understandable, my knowledge of my wisdom, where George is understanding knowledge of wisdom, with the wisdom of God who is Christ, Jesus, our Lord and fathering. Your words will be coming from our mouths, so that your message will you received by those who you have called to hear it. Lord, give us eyes to see here's to hear, hearts to understand all that you were teacherous to not in Jesus name of pray Man. Hey, amen, thank you to that.

Absolutely. Oh sorry, and what was the what did you say before that? I have go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. Oh a right. My name is Justin. I'm thirty nine years old. I am a father of three d and praise to be God, just husband of one. The Lord has blessed me with a family that has just been incredible,

even through all the trials and tribulations of marriage and trying. At the same time of when my wife and I first got together, we were both just individuals who were agnostic at best would describe ourselves as spiritual, but there was no nothing actually spiritual about anything that we enjoyed, and it wasn't It was really around the time of twenty fifteen, so I've always been I guess let me to act it up a bit I'm always what you would call a critical

thinker. In two thousand and one, when the Tower spelled and everything like that, I was in high school and I remember watching it in my history classroom. They walked in and interrupted our and interrupted my teacher and told him to turn the television on, which watched it live on TVs. The Towers

spell. And I remember at that time really not having a grass and understanding like what the meaning was of all of that, but I could recognize in that minute it just when the first tower fell, it just did not I expected if a tower of that tall would fall with damage that high in it, it would lean over and fall. To see a shirt just crumbling bick down, just it seemed odd. And here I am a high school I

have no engary background. I know nothing about construction or demolition, and I'm just like, that's a really odd way for that tower to start falling. And then, as you know, going into the internet looking those things up and actually, what was his name, guy who did Fahrenheit nine eleven was his name more Michael Moore? Yah, Yeah, that was that was Actually I remember Fahrenheit that a lot of them and watching that and being like,

man, there is a lot to this that doesn't make sense. So that was really my initiation, I guess, into this concept of critical thinking. I mean, I don't even know if conspiracy theory was. I know it was because Bill Cooper was around, and there were a few others. But I kind of fell off of that train for a while, just fell into the you know, the lusts of my youth and things like that, and running after all of the all the things that you do in college and later

late in high school into college and things like that. But I really got into as I get later into college. We gott in my junior year in college, I was going for my criminal justice degree and wanted to become a law enforcement officer. I remember the National Defense Authorization Act of two thousand and nine, after having everything that happened with the Patriot Actor. Was always just

this recognition that the government was just for seizing power. They were taking power at any opportunity they could, and they were doing it as subtly as they could, and if you weren't paying attention, they were basically taking I guess I shouldn't say taking, but they were prepping to have the ability to do

to whatever they desired. To you. And the National Defense Authorization Act of two thousand and nine was pretty much the cross four with me when they passed the act that you could basically as long as you stated that you believed an individual had terrorist ties or was involved in terrorist activities, you could detain them an American citizen. You could detain them without due process, so you could

detain them indefinitely and never have to take them to court. So basically, you just we think you're a terrorist, snatch and grab them, and they're gone forever for as long as you like, and they will never see a courtroom, they will never have a date to defend themselves. I started to I started to realize, like, if I'm going to be a law enforcement officer, there may come a day where I am going to have to hold a law. I don't believe it's constitutional. I don't believe it's right,

yeap. And that least started to weigh on my heart. But I was still at that time really deep in into just my own selfishness and my own fleshy desires and things like that. But that was really where my walk into critical thinking went to. But as far as sad me, at any point if I'm just talking too long, by the way. No, that was just very intriguing. And so from about two thousand and nine to twenty fifteen, to say it best, in my life, there were things that happened

to me as a kid. Because the best way I can describe it that was a very skinny, tall, big bowl, glasses bowl cut, Harry Potter looking kid like my story as I used to joke that if Harry Potter was getting cast when I was a child, you would have been in the wing. For like, I just looked like a nerd and I wasn't nerd. I was. I was a nerd. But as I grew up, I got bigger, my body filled out, and I had been bullied when

I was younger. I had been the recipient of a beatdown for a gang initiation at one point, and there were certain things in my life that just started to fester a hatred in me, and I was just I basically spent my late teens and in my early twenties just full of hate. I couldn't I couldn't vocalize it, I couldn't express it, but I just hated everyone.

The best way I could describe it is I was driving one day with my high school sweetheart who was my fiance at the time, and we had just left a family dinner which we ended up showing two and a half hours late to because I didn't care about my family, and I remember were saying to her, is like, I know my family loves me. I have absolutely no idea why because I don't care about them at all, And she

and I just had a conversation. We couldn't really grasp it, but that was really revelic towards me because I had grown up as a nominal Christian. My mom had taken us to different churches throughout time. My grandfather had been a pastor, but he had died when I was twelve, and he was really the old soverign figure in my life that I had ever actually connected with. My biological father abandoned my family for drugs, alcohol, and women when

I was three months old. My stepdad who's passed away now. Not to defang him or anything like that, I'll just say he and I did not have a good relationship that there wasn't loving where there was no real connection between us, and he was also part of the He's also a part of what helped build up the hatred inside of me that I I was just full of anger all the time and I just wanted to hurt people. And that was really starting to play out in my heroes and idols at that time were serial

killers. As awful as that is to say, I was studying them incessantly. I was learning their tacts and learning the things they were doing and how they were getting away with them. And I give phrase to God because I'm I'm absolutely certain if the Lord had not set restraint in my heart, I would have gone in a far different direction than I have ever that I am now because the only thing that I remember ever stopping me was this concept that

had been set in me. I didn't have an understanding of it. I didn't really know how it went, but I knew that I would be judged one day, and that judgment would be from God and I so I got deep into occultism and demonology and a lot of role playing like Vampire the Masquerade and other things like that, where you could express these desires to basically unleash the beast within was really the concept of it, but do it in a

safe fashion, right? An't thing that? And I just remember I got so far gone that I I wanted to be demon possessed, and I referred to myself as a servitor of the pit. I was a Bali serviator of the pit, like that was A that was a vampire tribe and BTM. But I wanted to associate it as to who I was the person I wanted to adopt that persona because basically the mentality I always had was it is I

never wanted anyone to be able to hurt me. I never wanted anyone to be able to get over on me again and do and damage you or harm me again. And it really started to play out off because what happened in my mind was I said it in my mind is that no matter how far someone is willing to go, I must be willing to go a step farther. I must be willing to go and hurt them more. And so an any opportunity I could find to be harmful to somebody, I was, And

that started. I got a job as a resident advocate for the criminally insane, and I remember I knew nothing about the job. I had no interest in mental health or anything like that. But my friends who worked there came up towards me and basically told me, is you can beat people up and get away with it. Well, I went in the bay and I applied for the job, and I got the job and looked for the very first opportunity that I could, and was basically taught how to barn people without getting

in trouble for it. And it just it fed everything in me. It fed this desire in me to range people. And I was in that job for several years, and I remember there was a time where there was this resident six foot ten, huge, redneck, racist white guy. Huge. I'm six foot four, two hundred and fifty pounds, and he dwarfed me and one of my co workers, Terrell, was about a three hundred and fifty pound black joke. And this resident would constantly just say and word this,

and we're back to him. And I remember we were doing a double shift one weekend and or pulland double, so it's work second shift Friday night, first and second Saturday, and the first and second Sunday, so one whole weekend, and this resident was just going off, that's what we called it. The whole weekend. He was doing everything he could to just be a terror in this facility. He tried to pull a bookshelf down on top of a blind resident and she in the face when I stopped him, and

we ended up physically managing him in that instance. And it was just like that. It was second as soon as I walked in Friday, second ship was boom. The entire weekend. It was just dealing with this residence. He ripped down our chain link fence that was at the backyard of our facility. It was just he was just going off the whole weekend and we were just getting so fed up with it. And Sunday night Second Ship, so

it was the end of the weekend. So at the end of my ship, I go off the unit to go to the bath room and there's this araba between units where our manager's offices are, and they had this and this was the stupidest idea in the world, and we constantly told him this is dumb. They had this picnic carry, which was a cement area that you could go out to. It was fenced him the residence could go there, but there was a rock bed along the whole odder edge to it, and

we kept on telling him you can't have a rock bed there. They will go out there and use these rocks his weapons. Sure, and no one's going to do anything. It wasn't locked, so they could go access it as long as they could get through from the unit to it could go out and get the rocks. And they tought, well, I leave the unit, and I just here, you know, su you big fat and and I'm just like, oh no. And I looked to my left and they're

out in this unit. It is Terrell and this resident and he's got a rock the size of my fist and his hand cocked back, ready to throw it at my coworker. And I'm just like, all right, all right, well here we go, because that was just where my mentality was. It's like there wasn't even fear. It was just like, all right, well, we're gonna do this. And so I go out there and my coworker, Terrell, is unfortunately antagonizing. He's like, you ain't gonna do

anything. On you ain't gonna do it sixteen two. Shut up. This guy's got a rock cock back the size of the size of my head and you're telling me he's not gonna do it. Well, guess what he threw it. And the road, I can only tell you is at that moment, everything slowed down. I saw Terrell put his hands up and turn his head away to shield himself with this rock. I didn't know what happened to him, but like this resident bent down to grab another rock, and I

just rushed and get me in the face. I smashed him up against the fence, and I knew nothing about like, actually he's fighting at this point. I just knew I like to hurt people, and I shoved him up against the fence as he as he smashed me in the face with his fist,

and I somehow threw him over my head. He was huge, and he landed down beside me with his mouth on my forearm, and he's biting into my forearm and I literally had to like saw my arm out of his mouth, and I started smashing his head into the pavement and he started biting at me and fighting. And then at the same time, but I don't know how much time passed, but my coworker Terrell got up and he had actually been hitting the head with this rock. We he ended up having to

go to the hospital with a mild concussion. But in that moment, he's huge, so I'm like this big six with ten bear beneath me, and this big three hundred and fifty pounds bear on my back trying to get me to let him kill this guy. I'm just like trying to hold one with the other hand, pull the other one down on the other hand. We're just in this tussle and there's blood everywhere, and I remember one of my somebody ended up calling the sheriff's artment, and the sheriff's barman came out with

a shotgun of this guy's head and says, stay down. And I stood up, and I had a euphoria in me had never felt in my life. I was covered in blood and I felt so good. I felt so related, and I'm like, I know what I want to do. I want to fight people. And so then I started doing mixed martial arts, getting into all the different disciplines with the tension of horned people, and I'm feeling like this is a dragon world. So I'm just going to go and

shorten it. So I had my very first amateur fight in twenty fifteen, and it was the greatest sextasy I'd ever felt in my life. It was better than any sex. It was better than anything I ever felt in his physical sense when I was seeing my opponent in his in his thigh and he was screaming in my ear. I had a plumb tie out of him and I was folding her to tie colage, and I was needing him to sigh, and n was screaming every time I hit him, and it was just

it was everything I had ever worned. It was so relieving, it was so ecstatic. And I had basically at this point come to this desire in my life to be a god, in every aspect of my life, to be my own god. I wanted no one to be able to get over on me in the physical sense. I wanted to know one to be able

to get over on me mentally in any sort of debate. I didn't want it to be totally even sexually and things like that, Like my mind had gotten so perverted, like I would have relations with a woman and I would not allow myself to be satisfied in that. I would do everything I could not be satisfied in it. For the sense I didn't want anybody to be able to satisfy me, and then when they would leave, I would go

and take care of myself like that's it wasn't even enjoyable to me. It was about I was so twisted and corrupted in my mind, and then my hatred and my desire to be this untouchable person that I had totally like driven everywhere away. I was destroying every relationship I was ever in and I couldn't

understand it. I was I was like a man standing in the middle of his house while his house is burning down around and wondering what happened as I have a can of gas in the long hand and matches in the other and I'm just like, I don't understand what's going on. I was burning my

world down around me. And at that time, I had met the woman that was going to become my wife, and I had this habit of putting on this mask of like the type of man I wanted to be, which was a good and faithful boyfriend, faithful I with her and I had We've been together for a year, and I was I was just devastated because I had this spike going on, and I had my my career was going to go pro like the guy that I trained with, several professional fighters who were

actually in the UFC, and I was getting pushed towards being an heavyweight because there aren't many heavyweights that are still be capable, and I was going to go pro and do that. And right after this first fight, everything in my world just fell the pieces. I had it up with the general disc disease in my back that had been building up for years. I had, I had her. I had a seizing bolting discs in my back that were just making mysiatic a screen with fire all the way down my right leg.

That's a Brudian. And I had been h I had been treating with narcotic medication. I would use them. I would use the medication for like whatever medication would given me. I would use that to numb the pain for the time, and then I just go right back to fighting and it would flare up again and I'd just do it again. And I'd been treating with that way for like six years, but around this time that was the worst I'd

ever had. And at the same time, I had asked my wife to marry me, and yet I was seeing all the old trends that were destroying my relationships happening again, and I couldn't stop myself, and I was like, what is going on? And then at the same time, if I wanted to go in chase after being a professional fighter, I would have to go out to Vegas or out to California or Arizona, somewhere where the big schools are, and I would have to abandon everything that I was building here,

and my life was forward apart. And then as far as it's really interesting because flat Earth fever around right around the same time as Christ started to work in my life. And really what it was is there was two things. I saw a meed and I still have it to this day of a train with a smoke stack coming out of it next to a pillar of smoke from a volcano going up through the clouds, and it says, and it basically just simply said, this is how smoke reacts with a moving surface.

This is how smoke reacts on an unmoving surface. And I think the tibeline was is the earth action moving? Question mark? Yeah, I found that made by the way. I found that exact image, so I leave that. The show notes it says, see the difference, the earth is motionless, and it shows a train doing twenty miles an hour, and then of course you know the volcano is spewing smoke supposedly at one hundred thousand and it's going straight up in the air. Yeah, And I knew in that moment.

I'm like, huh, it's not moving. I didn't know anything else, but I was like, it's not moving. It can't be. That doesn't make any sense. Like even there's not even wind pushing it, there's nothing in that moment. The smoke's just going straight up. It didn't make sense. But I was like, that was just kind of the beginning of the path. But I remember, you remember the go fast amateur rocket, the one that just stopped. It was what's that the one that just stopped?

Yeah, the one that just stopped and it sounds like it's hitting water. Yep. I remember watching that because I was like, I know, big into rockets, like rock Oh, that's cool. You know it's an amateur rocket going to go up the highest And I'm like, how did the thing stop? What happened? There's there's nothing within the heliocentric model that would ever lead you to believe that that rocket should stop unless it hits something. And then Mike actually was well, if it hit something, why did it

not blow up? Why did it not fall? The pieces get destroyed it hits something that's malleable, that was resistant but pliable, you know what I mean. I was just like, Okay, this isn't what they're telling us,

is not what this is like, it can't be. And then I started watching Rob Skiper videos and he was doing actual tests, and he did one with the magnet or whatnot, one of those lenses, those lenses where he just basically took a little piece of paper with a sun drawn on it on a little wheelly trolley and pulled it away with a magnetic lens in front of it. And you just watched that even as he had it at multiple cameras, and you could see that even as he was pulling it away,

the image inside of the magic the lens stayed magnified. And I was just like, Okay, the sun doesn't actually go around the curve like and it was just it was just this slow genesis process of like, it can't be what they're saying there because I cannot reproduce this on a curved surface. And that was really the start of it. Right around the same time. So my actual conversion and submission to Christ as a slave came in twenty fifteen as

well. Right around. Everything in my life was falling apart. But at the same time, it's still telling myself, I'm this, I'm this, like this god of a man, and that's where I was. It was more less I shouldn't say goddess, I myself because I loved demonology and I was even though I would never call myself a Satanist, I loved Satanism. I loved everything in demonic, in everything evil, like I truly was trying to kill everything in my conscience that would stop me from committing evil. I

wanted to do egal. All of my heroes, all of my idols, were evil. And I remember I got into all of my friends were atheists, and they got into a debate. It was basically like over Richard Dawkings the god delusion, and how the god of the Old Testamator is the most homicidal jedocidal fictional character and all of history, and how these got the greatest

killed death ratio or kill count and all up history. And I just remember and then they were saying, like the Jesus of the New Testament and it is just this hippy keep me lovely, w wheat smoking, you know, like peace and love, kind of Guy, and I was just like I used to go to Awana as a kid. I would go to Camp a Rikaya, like I would go to these Christian things, and I was like, I didn't know a single verse of the Bible. I don't even think

knew John three sixteen. But I was like, that's not how I remember the scriptures being presented, Like, Okay, I want to debate them and defeat them. That was my whole intention for buying a Bible. I had no desire to no Christ, had no desire to no God, and I just wanted to defeat my friends in argument and prove to them that they were

wrong. So there was a There was an atheist book I started listening to on audio called like Dreams to Blood, where they basically just took Isaiah thirty four and they went and they just ran with it and just talked about how

God is just this homicidal maniac and this mass murdering studio of killer. And I read I listened to that and I was like, Eh, it sounds iffy, because then I read Isaiah thirty four and I'm like, well, they're saying that this makes him evil, But Isaiah thirty four says that the Lord is doing this as retribution for what has happened to his people, what the enemies of his people have done to them, he will serve back on

to them. I was like, well, that actually sounds like, you know, a pretty good king, Like I would want my kid to dole up just on the enemies who have slaughtered my people, Like that's that's a good king. And then they would talk about the flood, and I, you know, was reading Genesis six and it was like that the that the intentions and the thoughts of men's hearts were only evil ever continues, and so I was basically like, Okay, so you have an entire world full of

serial killers and rapists and pedophiles. I would want to kill those people. Why would I then say that God, who made them doesn't have the authority to do that. Who am I to say all their thoughts are evil only continuously? He has every right to destroy them. I, myself, as a Magan, was doing like I was justifying all of the evil that I was doing because I was saying I was doing it to pedophiles, I was doing me to rapists, I was doing it to murderers like the Angury our

eye cases, which are not guilty by reasons of insanity. They were. They were people who had done some very heinous things and had gotten away with it in a sense indeed, And so I was using that as a justification to be who I was, and it was just fueling this fire within me. And I started recognized as like, Okay, something is not adding up

here with what all my friend's arguments were. And I started watching around Christian apologists versus atheists debates like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris versus like and Richard Dawkins versus oh my gosh, I'm forgetting his name, the old Oxford professor and Robbie Zacharias. I know everything that happened about him, but he was very instrumental in my beginning, in John Lennox and a few others. But I just remember listening to these and the Christians were just so civil and so calm

and so easily refuted every argument of these atheists. I was just like, this is not this is interesting, Like they are slaughtering these guys, they are defeating them. And I was still in this, still in this mode where I was destroying my life and I couldn't explain why it was happening. I mean, I was, I didn't want to do it, but I couldn't stop myself. And I go to the sermon of the Sermon on the Moud. I can't even remember why I was there, and I read in

Matthew, you have heard it said that thou shall not commit adultery. But I tell you, if you've even looked at a woman with lust in your heart, you have already committed adultery with her. And Geordie was like a damn blew up in my mind, and every single saying that I was struggling with was answered. Because I had been lying to myself and deceiving myself. I was telling myself I was a good person. I was telling myself I was not committing evil. Then I was. I was doing it in my

heart. I was doing it in my mind. And it was just in that moment when I was like, I don't know anything about this book, but what I just read is true. If that is true, what else is true? And I just went on a tear and I had not stopped. I have been following Christ ever since I came to recognize that he is the way, He is the truth, and here's the life, and no one comes to the Father but through him, and there is no other name

under heaven by which who maybe say. And at the same time, and I praise God for this, he dismantled the globe earth heliocentric model at the same time, because a lot of what happens with modern Christians today is there you have a lot of people who professed to be Christians who are actually followers of scientism. Yep. They actually their priests and their high priests are scientists and doctors, and they will just go with whatever science says, and they

will claim that that's the truth. And that was so when the Lord dismantled that for me, the scripture just came into place. I didn't have to try and interpret anything. I didn't have to do any ice of Jesus where I'm like, okay, where scripture says this, but science tells me this, So I'm going to agree with science. No, I'm going to try to make the scripture mold to what my understanding of science is. No, if scripture says this, I must throw out what science says. It's wrong.

Asked me, how do I know that this Christ says? I am the truth. And if he is the truth, then what he says is truth. He is the one who speaks what is true. So if I have this understanding and he has this understanding, mine has to just go away. It's wrong. I'd just have to accept it. Why because he said so. He either is the truth or he isn't. And if he needs it, I don't need to listen to a word he says. If he

is, I must abide by everything he says. And therefore, you know, I know, I've listened to all of the two hundred or two hundred proofs of flat Earth's in the Bible, and I would say a lot of those are sketchy at best, because they should be understood spiritually, try not cardally materially. But Joshua ten, but yeah, it's absolutely he stopped under mood in the sky. Yes. And I have have a new King James version that has a commentary in the bottom rate like and it basically says,

well, this was just written because they didn't have an understanding. Oh my goodness, I hate that. Just standing orbit and the Lord was the Lord was just writing it. They were writing in a way that made sense to them and their primitive understanding, because there's this, there's this, this constant lie that we tell ourselves is that those who came before us were stupid, yep, that they were as enlightened as us. You know, all honestly

we are dumber than the men who came before had. Like I try to tell this that people all the time. Is like when they when they try to like dog on the Pharisees and the Saddtes, I'm like, do you understand. The Pharisees and the Saddestes knew the entire Higher Old Testament to the letter. They knew it to every iota. That's why Christ says that not one job o'tiddle well the will be taken from this law because they knew every job in tittle. They were testing game on everything. They knew it to

the letter because they had to transcribe it. And they got one word wrong, one mark wrong. They had to It didn't matter if they were going through Isaiah and they were copying Isaiah. They got to Isaiah sixty six and they miss misspelled something, They did something wrong, and they caught it. They had to throw the entire writing out and start again. These men knew

the stricture. They were so much smarter than we are. They were so much more versed in wisdom and knowledge of the world than we are, and we just lied to ourselves because again it's this constant desire to exalt ourselves and deify ourselves as our own God. It's exactly what I was doing. And so it's just right around the same time that Christ saved me from my sin and my deprivation, he also showed me that the flat, that the earth

is flat, that it is an earth. I guess, if you want to, I should say he showed me Biblical cosmology is a better way to say, because I wouldn't describe myself as a flat earth as much as a biblical cosmologist, because I will submit to what the scripture says, right, and this is that deferred is on moving then that the all of the celestial bodies are orbiting above us and rotating and moving around us. He doesn't give me direct description. I know everyone wants to talk about the pillars and how

it's set upon these pillars, and it's it's on moving on here. Knowing again, there is an understanding we have to recognize what the pillars are. The scripture talks about when we are discussing that in the earth that's actually being talked about, there is actually man being set up on the pillars of the scripture. But that's a whole nother that's a whole other topic. So that's really where I came to the realization, understanding, and where I've been to

today as a slave of Jesus Christ. So yeah, that's weird. That's a great intro and a great story. And I could tell just from our conversations and our emails you're the type of person no matter what you take up, you go in head first, one hundred percent. It's amazing to me your depth of knowledge of the Bible and our conversations that we had, and then to hear your story, I figured you know that this was you for

your entire life because of all the knowledge. But now I understand when you take up something and in this case it was the Bible nine years ago, you live it and you breathe it and it really shows. And it's an amazing story. And I do have a bunch of notes. I want to go back and ask you about your intro. First and foremost, you have three children. It is very hard and getting harder every day to navigate this

world as Christians. What are your thoughts on their education? Yeah, so that's actually one that I struggled with very early on because I recognize the education system of that we're in that is being propagated throughout society. I give praise to God actually, because as I was struggling with this, the Stantists, the governor of Hubbed, Florida, set in place a law that did not allow sor basically transgender ideology and homosexual ideology to be taught up until the fourth

grade in school. So he actually pushed that out from that ability for these teachers to do that, they legally cannot do that to these early years of children. My children do attend public school, So I guess I'll say it like this. I used to be a children's protective service investigator and my cousins I was raised in public school and my cousins were raised in Christian Orthodox homeschooling. So I have seen good public school I have seen awful public schooling.

I have seen good homeschooling. I have seen awful old schooling. I have seen parents who do an excellent job in every respect. My personal, my personal take on this is the Lord has every had every capacity to save me out of the lion's mouth, to save me out of public schooling. Now that doesn't mean I'm ready to throw my children to the lions. But I look at how Scripture talks that Moses was raised up in the knowledge of the

wisdom of Egypt. He was given all of their occult knowledge, and yet he still thought it better to follow after Christ and to receive the approach of Christ than to be exalted in Egypt. I want. I've seen some of my family members who were raised in this very secluded olmen schooling, kept away from all temptation in their in their eyes, and they have just gone off. They have gone in different directions. I don't want to It's not my

job to explain or speak about where they have gone. But they have gone after the world. Is the best way I could to say it. Even though they had been raised in this tightly orthodox for an upbringing, but when they went so they had that throughout their elementary years, and then when they started going into high school college, they were not prepared. And again I

am not in any way saying that's true for all homeschoolers. I know that for my family, I have seen good homeschoolers in my because one of the one of the constant referrals we would get would be people who would be concerned that kids were taking out public school and putting homeschool in situations, so I would have to go out and do an investigation on are these children actually receiving a proper education being cared for in the home? Is there any child abuse

their black taking place? And there were some that were having issue, and there were some that were It's entirely set to the family. And I will

never war with an individual to divide on that hill. Is what whether you go to public school and you send the children to public school, give praise to God and study the scripture so that when your children come and say we learn evolution today, you can then that gives you a direct means to take them to the scripture and say this is where the Bible or this is where the Bible stands, this is what the Word of God says, this is what he teaches. Your teachers teach you this. The Word of God says

this. Whom do we trust? Proverbs three five through eight tells us trust the Lord your God with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding in all your ways. Acknowledge him, and he will make your past straight, being out wise in your own eyes. But fear the Lord and turn away from evil. It will be nourishment for your bones and refreshment to your flesh. So then that gives me a direct avenue to place the scripture up

against what the world teaches and allow my children to exercise wisdom. So I at this time, and I will also say this, I think I would be an awful school teacher. I hate to my core. I don't like school. So I try to sit there and then tell my children like, yeah, I need to teach you mast I need to teach you geoatry Like I would be awful at it because I despise it. You know, well,

I don't really see elf. Is he a good homeschooling teacher. So if you home school your children, give thanks to God that he is giving

you the capacity to home school your children. If you sign your children to public school or any other out of home school, and give thanks to God that he has given you the scripture by which you can still stand and still show your children, And then pray that he will set his mind and his heart upon them and sanctify them unto himself, and he will give them wisdom, though the world will do to everything it candidate the great answer, and

again there's no I've always said there's no one magical answer. There's no one magical elixir for every situation. Everyone needs to look at you know what they think is best for their children, and you obviously well thought out and you're doing what you think is best for your children. And amen to that. My next question, which I like to ask every guest, is how did you navigate through COVID and how did it change you as a Christian a truther?

And just your thoughts on it. How I navigated through broad Oh that's an interesting one because my youngest child was born during COVID. She was born in thirty three weeks. She was born premature. We were in the hospitals for thirty four days in the nick que we got home and on the eighth day, so actually K five, I started doing feverish and we all went and got tested and every single member of my family was positive for COVID on

the eight day, and my daughter I was downstairs foiling laundry. My boys were on the back patio and my wife was upstairs and ursing my daughter, and she just said words to me that I've actually had it, because she says this to me sometimes all the time as we come up here and look at this. I had to tell her now. I was like, you can never say those words to me again, because she said that to me. And I walked upstairs and she's holding my daughter wrapless swattom and she says,

does she look okay to use? And I have I have had for infant death cases when I worked for Child Protective Services, so I had I had seen what a an infant corpse looks like firsthand. I can only testify you to you, George. My daughter was gray as action, was not breathing. Ido only by the grace of God did I stay home in that

instance. And I picked my daughter up from my wife and put her on my shoulder and had her on the back three times and just said ali, and she just did this little like like sucking air back into her and she came back to me and I examined her because she did that. My wife was like, God, you gave me this huge stare. I could see

that your schemeless flushed and it was red. But when she was in the nicku, she had gone septic before this, and there was a time where we were there and there were no nurses, and this I give praise to God for this. I can't I mean not to get off into a tangent. I'm all while we were in that hit of being in the nicku, of how awful of a stay it was. But at the same time, the Lord never left us in that pit. There was a time where it was just my wife's and I in her her room. It all of all

of her SATs just tanked immediately, and there was no nurse coming. All of the alarms were blaring, everything was going off. I go into the hallway and I'm screaming out, is there somebody you can come save my daughter? And one of the nurses finally comes into the room and she was just this wonderful older lady and she looked at me and she's like, Dad, I need to go get some things. And I'm admitted, like the way she stayed caled. She's like, I need you to start doing this,

and she showed me how to start. She says, your daughter is not able to breathe down your own and she needs her chest stimulated. So she showed me how to do emotion on her chest to start stimulating her chest so that she would breathe. And I'm holding my infant daughter and she's looking at me and it's this look of confusion on her face. She's wide away, but she can't breathe, and so I'm stimulating her chest to keep her breathing

while they're getting everything set to take care of her. So fast forward to this instant. I look at my daughter, who's now back and has life in her, but I can immediately tell her chest isn't rising, her stomach isn't bulging, she's not breathing, and she's got that same confused look.

So I tell my wife called one on one, and I take her into her chanting table and I'm just stimulating her chest again to keep her breathing, and I'm talking with the dispatcher and telling her everything, and the dispatch is like, how are you staying so calm? And I wished in that moment I had given praise to God and say, because the lawyer is with me, But I had just said because I had to do this before, and

who but God can put me through that situation? In a moment where when it first happens to me, question in my head is like, why is this happening right? Because a month later I'm going to need to use it where I'm at home and my daughter can't breathe and there's no nurser around to care for Who but who but God can give that wisdom and give that experience and education. So we go in and we're aiding. My daughter is positive for COVID. Her lungs are just racked with it. It's just it's awful,

and all of us are positive for COVID. I'm probably the second worst, to the point where the question was were they going to hospitalize me? But I wasn't going to go allow that to happen. But I'm there with my what that night in the hospital and I asked them to get me a chair so I can lay back and go to sleep. And I could just see it on the nursing space as they kind of looked at each other,

and I already knew it was going to happen. And they eventually came back and they told me it was like, we're not going to kick you out when you are not allowed to stay there could only be one person in the room with your daughter because it was COVID isolation, right, And I, my wife and I didn't really have a conversation. Was just kind of agreed upon without any words, that she would be the woe that were to stay.

She wanted to, I wanted to, but I wasn't going to force out and I had to walk out of that room that night and not know where if I'd ever seen my daughter again. It's a long story short. We were in there for another fifty three days. She listened to medically induced coma for a month on a ventilator. Codd once when they extabated her and they didn't give her the steroid to keep her throat from arm to keep her throat from swelling closed after the excubation, and they basically had to force a

tube down in her again and do an emergency intubation again. The entire time the Lord was with us there, she had to have at one point she had to have chest tubs put in because her lung had popped. There was a hole in her lung and they were going to they had excavated her and they had put the camera orders. But it basically looks like a space mass. I can't remember what the name of it is. And they put her

on that, but that wasn't helping her. She wasn't getting oxygen because she had gotten the whole her along and they were going to reintubate her on a Thursday, and the doctor had walked into the room. He had everybody in their scrubs, everybody in the ante chamber ready to go, and he walked in the room for one last look and he his worstle and my wife were

her reading just got better. And praise be to God that that happened, because that Saturday, so this is the Saturday after I had been kicked out, So Sunday had been kicked out, and she'd been in the whole week. That Thursday they were going to reintubate her, and they were, but that Saturday they my wife was found on the bathroom floor basically just crying and a heap, in a fit because it was exhausted. She had COVID herself, She had no access to anyone, she wasn't allowed to leave the room,

and she's it was just it was mentally just devastating to her. And they finally got the doctor to say, like I did fermis. She for my husband to come in today to see the family. And I had even asked my wife this is to say come in and say you're a device. Then she's like, no, this is come in and help your wife,

because she's like this is this is killing It was crushing me. Oh sure, And so I come in that Saturday and I'm sitting in the parking lot and the whole time I'm driving and I just have this sinking dread like slowing over me. I had no reason to. They told me that my daughter had been doing good. They told me that this wasn't a goodbye thing, so it was just coming and you know, help give your wife some relief and things like that. They were going to let her go home and wash

and take a shower and get a break. And I was going to stay through that Saturday. And she didn't come back later that and I like they would finally like being a little more mean. And I'm sitting in the parking lot and I'm just sitting there for like five minutes and I didn't know why. I was like, I don't know why I'm fearing this dread. And my wife calls him. She's like, where are you like I'm in the parking lot when I'm just sitting in here, and she's just like, you

need to get up here now. And I just like my heart sank, and I run up and get in the elevator and I go to the floor and I go into the war and there's just everyone's in there COVID gear and they're running around. And I walk into the room and the doctor media who looks at me, and he says to me, I need to intubate your

daughter. She has a hole in her lung. I cannot intubate her without chilling her because if I put the if I put the tube in her and blow air and t were long, it will just blow open the hole even further and I will brush her heart. He said. As the same time that I intubate her, I have to also put chest tubes in to draw the air out of her chest. He says. I I've done both of these procedures individually. I've never done them at the same time. I'm going

to do everything I can. And I said, I have prayed for you to have wisdom and that the hands of God would be your hands. Please door save my daughter. And I'm sitting there and he and two nurses are working on my daughter, and my wife's sitting next to me and she's texting her mom, and I'm just I've got my arm around her and I'm reading. I just I glanced over and saw her text and she basically the texted

her mom is like, I feel like I'm dying inside right now. And I just had this moment of like, why don't I feel that way? And it was because the Lord was giving me a peace that I could not understand. And again, long story short, the procedure work. He got the chest tubes in and the intubation going, so it was measured out so that he wasn't blowing the hole any larger. My daughter was able to start rereading clearly again, and they were able to start draining the excess air out

of her chest. It was just this continuous dance of your daughter has no how the doctor said it. Your daughter has no strength. We have no ability and medication to do anything proactively. We just we can only react. There's nothing we can do for her. My wife and I had no strength to stop any of this. The only one that was saving my daughter was Christ. So we're there for another fifty three days all this is going on.

She codes at one point, but we end up getting out of it, and my wife is just adamant, like I want to get some shot, or not shot, but a COVID shot. I want to get a COVID shot for my daughter. And I was really struggling with as everything was going on COVID at this time, and everybody was a lot of my friends were basically like, we won't take the shot, we won't do anything like

that. And I had to go to First Corinthians and I had to recognize that if an individual wanted to wear a mask, let them wear a mask and give thanks to God for the mask that can in their eyes, but that God had given them that as a protection. If somebody wanted to take the booster shot to protect themselves, let them take the booster shot to protect themselves, and give praise to God that he had given that medical advance that

that they could it can ingivied. You wanted to abstain from having a mask, let them give praise to God that they have no needs for a masking. If somebody wanted to not take a shot, let them give thanks to God that they have faith enough not to take that shot. Whatever you do, give thanks to God. Whether you're abstaining, give thanks to God that you could abstain, Whether you partake, give thanks to God that you can partake. I took the initial shot for the sake of my wife and her

mental well being. I am no better else since I took it. I have no better offer if I didn't take it. It was entirely for the well being of my wife mental She had hope that this would be efficacious for my daughter. My hope was in Christ. I know that this shot has no effect on me. I will. I know there's a lot of fear that like these things will do things to your DNA stuff. I will die the day that Christ calls me to die. No one in this world dies

before without the Lord's cassette, without the Lord's perission. I will die the day that she tells me when I die. I'm not concerned in regards to what effects it's going to have on me, because if it has any effects on me, it's entirely because the Lord allows it. So I will not war with an individual over whether they want to get a shot or a booster, or wear a mask, or if they don't here's the thing. If I have an individual, my job is to go forth and to preach the

Gospel and to give the good news. If I have an individual who will not even talk to me because I'm not wearing a mask, I will put on a mask because what's more important is to not give offense in anything. Because the Gospel is the most offensive thing to the world, because you're telling the world that its deeds are evil. So therefore I will put on the mask in order that I may have that conversation with an INDIVI if an individual would sit there and you know, to cry me and say you're wearing a

mask, I can remove the mask because a mask has no efficacy. It is God who sustains me. Whether I wear a mask, whether I get a shot or I don't, it is entirely the Lord's prerogative what happens for me. My job is to be offensive in nothing, because the Jospel is worth sentence. Man, Wow, what an incredible story. And I'm looking at your picture here on zoom. You're holding your your your little girl so as she's beautiful and your old family is and just man, that's an incredible

story. And I can't imagine you said it was fifty three days you had to dure that in total, between the nick you and the pick you, it was eighty seven days. Eighty wow. And with all that with COVID going on at the same time, just I can't imagine. But you know what they say, these type of things make you stronger and just a credible

story. Gee, I don't even know where to go from there, but I'm just going to go in the order I have my notes because you had mentioned the NDA of two thousand and nine, and I think there's a lot of people who don't understand anytime that there's these omnibuses that they always stuff them with what they call pork. And in twenty twelve with the NDAA was the Smith Modernization Act, and that really is what allowed the United States to legally

push propaganda down our throats. And there's a great article from twenty thirteen I think that talks about how the US government funded domestic propaganda has officially hit the airwaves. It's really interesting, and this is something that's been harder for me to wrap my head around as I've gotten older and further away from my time in the military. Is you know, we claim to be one nation under God. But when you stand back under a microscope, I can't imagine as

a government. I guess not the people. It's just like yourself. There's so many wonderful people in this country, and it's amazing. It's almost like when you see two dysfunctional parents, but the children turns out really well. I think that's what the people of this country are. Because we have a very evil government that lies, steals, and kills, yet we have so many wonderful Americans. How do you, as an American look at where we are today as a society. Well, my question always as first is we

have to define the terms. So I asked which God's That has been my mantra lately. It says one nation under God? But who exactly is that right? And I would testify to you scripture in Matthew seven of the Lord tells us, and you will know them by their fruits. For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks the good man, out of the goodness of this heart will speak goodness. But the evil man, out

of the evil of this heart, will speak evil. So if you're seeing a government that is speaking and acting in an articular way, you can disserve who that God is of theirs there, God is Lucifer, It's it's not Christ. So they're one nation under the devil. And so I mean, even when I hear people say God bless America, they don't actually recognize what the scripture says is that America is not blessed. America is under judgment already.

Judgment's not coming. Judgment is here. God has given mankind over to their luss. He has took his restraining hand off of the American people, and he has allowed them to fornicate and go after all the wickedness that they desire. It's exactly what Romans one too or one teaches is that his wrath is the removal of his restraint, and he gives them over to the self destruction of their flesh. America's God is the devil, and they are running

headlong after him. I am a citizen of the Kingdom of God. I am a slave of Jesus Christ. I live in exile in America and in the flesh. I am an American citizen. But as Hebrews eleven teaches me, I look forward to a city that is built by God, to a kingdom in a nation that comes from God, not built by hands of men, but built by the spirit of God. This is not my home. I am on a pilgrimage. I am in exile. I have a roof over my head here, but my home is in Christ. Great answer.

That may be the best answer I've ever gotten, And that's something I'm only compartmentalized, or not compartmentalized, but put in my back pocket. And that is something that will help me kind of get through my thinking and my past as I think about something that I put so much of my time and effort

in for twenty four years. As I was here and you talk, as you were going through high school and all these things, I started doing the math and I realized you were like a nineties kid, right teenage years in the nineties, and that was really a time when even in pro wrestling, the good guys or the bad guys were looked upon as the good guys. And I always mentioned that nine to eleven was really them saying that, you

know, we're not hiding this cevil anymore. But when you go back and look at the nineties, I think they were already starting to show their cards when like being like, look at Beavis and butt Head and all these other things. These things were champion. Do you think that had any part of it to do with your your kind of the way of life? Oh yeah,

I was a huge fan of the attitude era of Www. E. Stone Cold Steve Austin Austin three sixteen says, I just wit your You know I had hurt John three sixteen, But I can tell you I never I never knew what he was doing with that. I'd even seen it when he was there at King of the Ring and he was standing up and he was saying to Jake to say in some your Bible news preacher John three sixteen.

Well, Austin three sixteen says, I just and I was like I knew even as a kid what he had said was wrong, but it was so cool. It was so cool that he said something that was wrong and got away with it and was just going after it. And he in The Rock like in all I in all honesty, like The Rock was my first real idol. Austin was awesome and I loved him, but The Rock was my first real idol because he was just so charismatic and classy and just dominated every

situation. And I really wanted to emulate him because I was a very nerdy kid. I was a very very tall, all skinned kid, and I had no confidence, and I was I wanted to be like him, and then every like I said for me more so it was role playing. I was a I was a tabletop role player. I I went so up until fifth grade when I was I was the recipient of that gang initiation beat. Now, I had wanted to be a football player. I had wanted I had wanted to be a ride receiver. I was huge into the San Francisco

forty nine ers. Jerry Rice and Steve Yarn were like my biggest idols at that time. And we were doing fifth versus sixth graders on the softball field and I caught the game winning touchdown and I was just so elated. And then immediately one of the sixth graders, right is the bell wrong? We won the game. At the end of recess, right is the bell wrong?

One of the sixth graders came over and kicked my legs out from under me and sat on top of me and just started, it's so infantile now, but started saying, justin say, sixth graders, rule of fifth grader's drool and I was like five fifth or sixth graders a little fifth graders drool,

and he got up. But right about that time, two other sixth graders, random and playing with us, came out with the field and they started pretending like they were helping me up, and they were like, hey, man, you know, it's okay, good game, and everything like that. And our high school was kitty corner from our elementary school and right across the street from our softball field. And I was really confused because I didn't know, really I knew who these two guys were, but I never

interacted with them, and I didn't know why they were there. And I could hear commotion behind me at the softball fans, and I looked and there were like five or six high schoolers and they just pointed to me and they said beat him. And they proceeded to just stop me into the dirt. And at that point everything I had previous loved, previously loved like just went

away. Because the very next day, my mom went through a really big issue of whether or not she was going to press charges, and one of these kids, mom begged her to press charges against them because he had already broken the second grader's hour, and she was pregnant with a new born, and she was afraid for her and her child that he would do something to them. So my mom ended up pressing charges against him. And I went out to the softball field the next date to play football, which was my

life, which is exactly what I wanted to do. It was everything. I loved it. All my friends were there, and so was one of my abusers, and he looked at me as I walked out, and he says, oh, sorry, guys, I can't play with you otherwise Alan Boss's marble call the cops on me, and all of them laughed at me. Everyone I thought was my friend, they all laughed at me, and

I don't know to this day where I went or what I did. I splacked out and I walked away, And that was really one of those moments where I just the hatred started like building me in this desire to never be gotten over on again. I didn't want anyone to ever do that to me again, and I started really I ended up finding more of a kind of an outsider group of friends who were, you know, just the nerd gossip

kids and things like that. Got into Vampire, the Master Rate. It just really fell into this love the demonic in the Satanic and the power that it could give you, and the occultism in all of this dark demonology. And I will get praise to God in that he he always put restraints in my path, things to stop me. Always just this nonmenal Christianity that kept me back from it. But you're absolutely right. The Nines was seating everything

and I was going headlong to evil. I was loving it. And even back then, like as I said earlier, like serial killers were, they were kind of like cult heroes. They were kind of like well not cull infamous, you know, and you could get you could buy books on them that would just give you information all over them. They were always documentaries, Dateline, MSNBC and all these things would always do all of these like expose

as on them, and they would just make them so infamous. And there was this, uh do you ever hear of the iceman Richard good Klinsky? Sure, I remember watching his HBO specials, and that was I was even in the early two thousands. But he was just so calm about the evil that he was doing, and I was just erhaps you buy it. I

was so captivated by it. I was like, that is a man that no one can do anything to. And I I will testify to you this day that had God not put restraining me, I would have got the wrong way. I would have become a murderer. And I know, I don't say that in any sort of embellishment, because everything that I wanted to do was an evil. I wanted to do harm to people and get away with it. The only thing that stopped me was I had this sense that had

been placed in me as a kid that I would be judged. It wasn't really even a conscious thought, it was just there, you know. So, Yeah, the nineties were definitely deep into that. Yeah, and it really a culminated in ninety nine. I'm doing the math. I'm figuring you would have been probably a freshman or sophomore when when Columbine happened. How did that affect you? Watched it on television and was not in any way polled by it, To my shame, I remember watching that kid getting pulled out

out of the window of the second story by the swat team. Yeah, and he's just covered in blood. And my response to it was not in any way revulsion. I was not upset. I was doing I wanted to see video of them killing. I wanted to see Cleveld and Harris killed her

people. I was searching for it everywhere I could. I I they never really became idols to me because they were it was so like locked down at that time, like as much as as much publicity as they got, there wasn't a ton that was revealed, or at least me at that age back of five, right, but there was. I would I would say my re response was not the kind of response that shouldn't have happened. It was wrong. Sure, and again, it's amazing to hear your story and to

where you are today, it is quite amazing. In the nineties, you know, I was kinda missed the second half of the nineties because I was in the military. But in retrospect it, like I said, I've been looking at it recently, you could kind of see where things got a little dark. And that's when everybody had the black hair and the jeans and the con and you know, the music changed, everything became you know, I felt like that's when we lost our smile to a certain extent, you know

what I mean. Oh, yeah, oh yeah, break stuff from Limbiscuit was just it was an anthem. Yeah, there you were when those Woodstock in the nineties, I can't remember what that when they when they basically started a riot like it just it was it was this sense and this idea that like evil gave you control. Yeah, it gave you pop, Like you could just move an entire crowd to riot by just your words. And I remember watching clips of it and it was just a sea of people undulating like

waves. It was just so amazing. And then to know that they were going and then they started burning things down like that was where my mind was. I didn't I didn't look at these things and say, man, that's wrong. I looked at these things and that's power, that's awesome. Like that's where I was for Christ, That's who I was, and that's what I wanted. So yeah, I was definitely a product of the nineties. You know, I was named you know Korn. I never got really I

think slip Knot was probably about it. I never got into what were they call land God or the other system of the down. Oh no, I was making the system of doubt. Yeah, but I mean you could just you could open my CD my CD book, and I had all of those, sure, all of them there and everything like that. And you I never really listened to the lyrics other than, you know, to hear the evil of them. You know, five finger death Punch in the two thousand was near the end. Uh, Jacky and Hyde, I've got a demon

inside like that. I love that song. I loved fighting that song. Marilyn Manson's New s was my was my intro music for m M A. I walked out to it, this is the new blank. I'm not gonna his words like that. Is it just it lit a fire inside it not me emotionally, and just it filled you with this desire for power. There you go. Uh do you attend the church? Yes? They do? Oh good? Is it not? Is it denomination? Tell us a little bit about it? How I go ahead? Sorry? What? No?

No? No go things they're there. Presbyterian. I believe I am. I'm a non denominatory. I'm a non denominat national Christian. I am just a Christian and I'm a slave of Jesus Christ. First Rinthians three teaches me that I am not to divide with other teachers. I'm not going to name myself after John Calvin. I'm not going to name myself after Martin Luther.

My teacher is Jesus Christ, who is God who teaches me. So I am a Christian and nothing or I don't need to be an anymore, but I would The church that I attend, though they are associated with the Presbyterian Church, they are, they're teaching, They're generally non denomination good. That's great because fellowship is important and being around like minded people is extremely important, especially in these times. As as things begin to it seems like I get's

a little more difficult every day. It's great to have people to lean on who are like minded and follow Jesus Christ. Absolutely something that has UH that's on my mind a lot. It's it's again, it's one I try not to dwell on things we can't control. At the same time, I think I do believe NASA is very evil and is part of UH. You know. I always say they're continuing the mission of Nimrod. I think it's that they play that they're just you know, going into outer space and things.

But I honestly believe that they're doing things UH in Antarctica and around the world trying you know, going back dominic, do you ever think about these things or well, do I think so? I guess I should have phrased it better. I think NASA is one of their primary missions in real life is

to try to overthrow God, even though we know they can't. I have a hard time once again swallowing the fact that we print money for these people every day, and their mission is to try to overthrow God and to deceive our fellow brothers and sisters. Uh, not here but around the world because we know, as we like, we'll use biblical cosmologists. That helio centrism I call is, you know, I equate with evolution and the Big Bang and helio centrism. These are three things that they use to hide God.

So I used to be dismissive of it. But the more I think about it, the more upset I get that they teach our children. I go back to the your children go to church for two hours and then they're spread the theory of evolution and everything else. It's it's a battle. It's a constant battle. And again, you can't overprotect your child. At the same time, part of me like, what there's actually down by you? There was a guy who stood up to a city council and said that NASA should

be audited to go after them. But again, nine of the people will stand by and roll their eyes. Oh this silly guy. But what's your take on NASA and what they're really trying to do. Yeah, I'm right there in line with you, So I actually think you stated it well.

All of these things, as much as they are doing them there, their desire is personally foremost to overthrow God, because just as I mean Christ is, he is the ciper, He's the key to the cipher of every single conspiracy theory, the Federal Reserve, builder, Bird, NASA, all of these things, every single one. When you put in Christ, every single

Domino fauls, every single Domino is lands to deny him. NASA's entire purpose is to lead men to a materialistic worldview, to keep our eyes on the material instead of allowing the eyes of our hearts to be enlightened by the knowledge and the wisdom of God and the faith of Christ Jesus. NASA is doing

exactly what you said. They are leading our brothers and sisters into unbelief and drawing them astray from the spiritual of the scripture to the natural material of this world, because they want us focus and fixated on the treasures of this world which have no power to save. So yeah, I actually one hundred percent agree. Awesome And for me, the two things I always keep it in my truck. I keep devotionals tracks, the old school Christian tracks, and

a few Bibles. But I also carry around some flat earth stuff Biblical costmology, and those are the two things that yelder, I get the easier for it. I have no problem welcome up to complete strangers and striking up a conversation. Have you had any luck obviously as a disciple of Christ, you're out and about spreading the gospel? How do you approach spreading the Gospel? And how do you approach sharing the knowledge of biblical cosmology? Obviously they go

hand in hand. Just I'll give you the opportunity to speak on that. No, you're fine, I'm just I'm just a believer. That I just stated it is that I will tell people as like the earth is flat, and then like after they get over that stunned moment, people though they generally and I could praise God for this is I think what He allowed me to do in the year is that I was full of all that hatred. Confrontation doesn't bother me. I absolutely thrive and love confrontation. I love a good

debate. I love a good physical confrontation. Not that I'm saying I want these discussions. Whoever end up in a physical conversation, but it has taking that steer out of me. So I will just flat out state and no punt intended that the Earth is flat, the sea is level, there is no horizon. I will I will discuss that to a point with individuals. But because there is no salvation in knowing the earth is flat, it is

less concerning to me in regards to the gospel. There are those who I know who believe in the heliocentric model, who are still saved to eternal life now right, So they will come out to the truth, but they will

then will not save them, right. And it's more so interesting to me because when I really started digging into flat Earth and saw like you get like Eddie Bravo, and you'd get like Dave Weiss and others who would be confronted with the direct questions, it was always the ones that would always sump them, are why the lie and what about God basically and why the lie is

very simple. It's it's the most cliche answer aside from the fifty or seventy million a day, which everyone doesn't want to talk about God will talk about. What the answer is. The lie is to deny Jesus Christ because if the Earth is proven to be flat inside of a terrarium, basically there must you must infer created it's turning. Must it's And once you recognize the Earth is flat and not a globe spinning in space, our space goes away.

The Big Bang goes away, Now evolution goes away. They all fall when this foundational lie goes away, every single one, because once the Earth is no longer a globe spinning in space, the space isn't what they tell you. And afore, if you don't have space, you don't have the Big Bag. If you don't have the Big Bang, you don't have Evolution. Flatters destroys all of that. And this is just I'm sorry, go ahead,

I thought you were done. No, but we brought into this issue where we get to we get individuals to the point of, okay, all of this is a lie. But then we ask the royal question of what is the truth, the actual correct question, because that's actually what Piot asked Christ to this crucifixiate. What is truth? The answer is not what, but who? Who is truth? Jesus Christ in John fourteen six says, I'm the way, I am the truth. I am the lis. No

one compass to Sawther butts through me. So when we talk about truth, and when Romans one eighteen tells us that in unrighteousness, the ungodly suppressed the truth, it's not that they're suppressing Flatter, It's not that they're suppressing nine to eleven. It's not that they're suppressing what they're doing at NASA or with the Bilderberg organization or with the Federal Reserve, and is things. The truth they are suppressing is who is Jesus Christ. And so they do that by

all these various means. Because when I run, I running into a lot of my Christian brothers who they are stuck in this conspiracy mindset. And I will testify that I was there early on in my walk as well, because I was a critical thinker before I was a Christian, and I started seeing once I knew that Christ was true, and I started seeing how all of these lies were being built up. I was building an idol in my heart

of hatred. I was spending more time hating the kingdom of the Devil, focusing and fixating on the evil that he is doing, than I was on actually studying the word of my God and loving him and the gifts that has been given. Unto me, It's actually a very insidious deception because the enemy doesn't care if you hate him. He doesn't care that you're looking at him and exposing everything he's doing in the material. He cares that you do not

look at or acknowledge Jesus Christ and the Spirit spot on. Well done. We are down to our last ten minutes. So I want to give you the opportunity if there's any other bullet points that you had light up that you wanted to express to our listeners. Now'd be a great opportunity to do that.

Yeah. So basically it runs down to this is when we come, when we come to a knowledge of the truth or fact in regards to Flatter and we run into these issues where you get men like Dave Wise and praise me to God for what he's doing and revealing in these interviews and these debates

with individuals that to Earth is not what they say it is. But he always comes to this point where individuals Addie Brow did it, others do it, where they come to this point where they will be confronted with the discussion about God. Because again, once you start recognizing that the flat the earth is flat, and it is not what they tell us in space is not what they tell us, you must infer a creator. You must have that

presupposition. It just happens because you recognize you are in a created system. And then they will be confronted with that question, and then they always basically throw up their hands and say, well, boo, I'm not saying God, you do without what you want. And that baffles me when I hear that, because if I look at a table and I recognize all of the dimensions of the table and realize that this table was created, the truth is not in the table. I can recognize facts about that table, I can

acknowledge different aspects of its design, but the table receives no honor. It is the one who made the table. So it it's again, it's so the devil is willing to allow us to go to this point of you can know that I've been lying to you. You can know that the earth is

flat, you can start doing all these things. He doesn't care if you know that, so long as you fall into Deism, so long as you go into Buddhism, so long as you go into Hinduism, or you start going to New Age theology, or start believing in these or you start diving into these dimensional beings. Because the next question is, well, then if

space is are real, what are aliens? Well, they're demons. So then you just start dying adadlong to all of this study on demonology and ayahuasca and how men are interacting with these things all the while I'm not looking at Christ, I'm looking everywhere else. Right, So well is allowing us to call ourselves truthers. The true truthers are Christians because Jesus Christ is the truth. If you want to be a truth or you must be a Christian. Jesus Christ, as I am the truth, he either is right or he

is wrong. If he is right, then all who are truthers are Christians. And so we get to this point where we get all of this knowledge. But this knowledge, as Scripcher says, knowledge without love puffs up what love verse John fourth eight and sixteen tells us that God is love. So if I have knowledge, but I do not have love, who is God? I am puffed up. I am exalting myself in my own wisdom wisdom of the world, and thinking I'm wiser than I actually am. And scripture

tells me that God traps the wise in the roty seat. He destroys them by it. He has made foolish the wisdom of this world. So let any of you who were desired to be wise become a fool in this world. As first Corictius three eighteen, I must instead seek the wisdom of God, which is Jesus Christ. James one to five tells me, if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask. God gives abundantly to all who ask without reproach. But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the

one who doubts is like a weighty tossed by the wind. He is out the stable in all his ways. He must not believe that he will receive anything from God. Now, if I apply that, as the car world teaches me, I'm looking for worldly wisdom, wisdom about materie of things. But if into the study of Scripture. First Corinthians one on twenty four and

thirty teaches me that Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God. So James one to five is actually telling me, if any of you lacks Jesus Christ, let him acts God, and he will give him to you abundantly without reproch. And so when you have these have this knowledge of the flat earth, that's wonderful. That is a tool to go forward recognize and dismantle all the lives of the devil. But it must lead to the truth. Flat earth is not the truth. Christ is the truth. Flat Earth is a fact.

Biblical cosmology is a fact. But the fact must come to the logical conclusion of God. Otherwise it is a dissection that will destroy to you in your own pride and arrogance. It can do it to any of us. I am just as guilty as any of all or that it's only by God's

grace that He has shown me who is the truth. And then Scripture tells me, and I'm going to go to Isaiah chapter twenty eight, but sorry, because again when we get into these debates, and we'll get into these discussions, I run into this all the tide and with people who profess to be Christians. They'll say, and I start debating with them about how Jesus

Christ is the true Israel of God. It's not this nation in the Middle East, or how there are Romans two twenty and twenty nine tells me that a true Jewish someone who was circumcised in their heart, not only in the flesh. And they'll say, well, that's just your opinion, that's just your interpretation, Okay, that's fair. The question is is there such thing as truth? The answer is yes. The truth by definition is exclusive. There is a person who declares he is the truth, and that is Christ.

So then we must we must understand that his interpretation and his understanding and his opinion are what matter. So I could have the milliarion different opinions about what scriptures say, the only one that matters is what christ Us and Isaiah fifty four or thirteen. The scriptures say that Yahweh in the latter days, Yahweh will be their teacher, and blessed will be the peace of all your

children. Christ quotes that in John six forty five, and he says it says in the prophet that God will be their teacher and anyone who learns from the Father comes to me. And in John's thirteen thirteen, the same gospel epistle, he says, you call me teacher and master, and or sheater. You can call me lord and teacher, And you say so right four, I am. He's telling us, I am God who teaches you.

So therefore I must listen to his understanding. And so if I go to Isaiah twenty eight, and I start in Isaiah twenty three, there's this very interesting passage in Scriptures twenty three through twenty nine, but we'll go through twenty six. It says, get a ear and hear my voice. Give attention, and hear my speech. So he's telling us paid attention to what comes next. Does he who plows for sobo and plow continually, does he continue it open and hair of his ground? When he is leveled as surface,

does he not scatter dill? So Cuban put in wheat and rose and barley in its proper place and emer as the border. For he is rightly instructed, is God teaches him? That is an incredible promise that I, as a man who am seeking and yearning and hungering for truth, I have the promise written in the scripture that if I can rightly hear and listen and divide this scripture, I will know that I am instructed by my God, who teaches me. So the question is is how do I understand this? Well?

Again, Christ tells us, I am God who teaches you. So what does he teach us? It will go to Mark Ford starting in verse thirteen, gives us a parable that is in the Synoptic Gospel, which is the parable of the sword. But I like the mark for version, because this is what he says at thirteen. So this is Mark four thirteen. And he said to them, do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. Now he

asks that in a negative form. Is a question. If I'm to flip that and turn that into a statement, I must turn it from a negative to a positive. So the question that goes from do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? Too? If you understand Dan was perable, you will understand all the parables. And Scripture teaches us that Christ spoke nothing to us that was not imparable. But he gives

the knowledge to his disciples. Isaiah eight teaches us that he stores up the testimony in his disciples. So it's not a coincidence that this is the understanding that God, who teaches us, says, this is the parable that will give you understanding of all the parables. And it just so happens to be a parable about sewing, which you get if we go back to Isaiah twenty

eight. It's a parable about sewing. And God says that the Word who understands us knows that he's rightly instructed, and as God teaches him and the sower shows the word. So this is either to be under Isaiah twenty eight,

twenty four, and twenty five. Is either to be understood literally andcarvally and about how to be a good subsistence farmer and therefore I can create crops in this world, or it's teaching me how I'm supposed to rightly preach the gospel, to declare the word of God, and the way the Lord taught me this was I was so when I first came to Christ. I was so fearful that my wife would die without knowing God, a go to hell, that I was preaching the gospel to her in hate I was basically saying

to her, how can you be so ignorant? How can you not understand this? This is the easiest thing in the world. It's so clear, not at all recognizing that I had, for twenty nine years of my life denied him. Right, But I was so fearful that I would preach the gospel to her but in hate, and then I wouldn't see her come to Christ. And so I would preach it again, and I would preach it

again. But if I was if I take that, if the seed that is soul is the word of God, and I sow that into the ground, which first fornth Day's three nine tell me that the people of God are God's field, they are the ground, they are his harvest steel. So if I'm sowing the word of God and my wife, but then I have no patience, then I give no chance for that word to grow, for

it says that God is the one who gives the grow. And then I go appreciate again, I might just I'm just like a farmer who goes and sows the seed one night, it comes out the next morning, he says, oh, it didn't grow. So he harrows up and plows the ground again and sows another seed, folds at dirt over it again, goes to sleep, comes back out. Ah, it hasn't grown. Man just does it. It keeps doing it. It will never grow. I must instead sow the word, trusts the one who gives the growth. And I must

then go out and sew different seed among others. I must again not saying that the seed itself is different. For the Word of God is truth. It's Jesus Christ. But the plant that rises from that is a different man, is a different person. It is a different individual who bears different fruit, all of whom have the fruit of the spirit. And so this is how our God teaches us. And there are so many Christians who don't know

that. They don't recognize that they can be rightly instructed. They can know that God teaches them and Scripture tells them they can well done, well done. And we are out of time. But it's been an incredible journey with you for the last ninety minutes. And I don't know if you know it, but you have a book in you like legitimately you could. That's you quite a story from start to finish your journey. And of course it's not over. The book is not as far from being written, you know.

But but what incredible story, what a journey, and I'm really anxious to follow you along and to see where you go with this. And I hope your message. I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of people, and I hope they share your story. And I know there's going to be a

lot of people reaching out to you. Uh, you know, wanted to pick your brain and to meet you and chat with you because your journey is incredible from you know, what you had dealt with as a teenager and the things you endured as a young adult into uh you know, being a father of three, and what you went through with your daughter. God bless you and your family, and just what a wonderful story. And it was great to meet you. And I'll I'll give you the last minute here to address

the audience as we closer. Well, I I appreciate that, but I would just I want to say that any any praise or anything like that, let that be given to God. Lots of me. If I speak anything today that you have heard that is that you recognize as true, is shots of me Christ. If I speak anything rightly let it be the glory be giving begin to God. Because everything that I have talked about I have received through the Lord. There's nothing in me that wates for me. It's from

Him. If there is a book that is inside me, let it be the bifle that there you go so again, and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to meet with you. I was really nervous about coming out here because I didn't know what the Lord would allow me to speak today. I didn't know where he would let me go with it. But again, may it just be for the edification of the saints that those who are called to Christ may hear it and they may recognize that He is the Way, the Truth,

and the Life. And therefore, if they truly if any person would truly desire it, call themselves a truther, let them call themselves a Christian or Christ is the truth a man well said. And I will tell you, with somebody who's been in the truth community for a long time, I've

come to understand that as well. I really haven't. God he led me to your podcast because like I had actually closed out the the iPhone or iTunes podcast thing, and I'm only doing it Amazon now and I had never heard of your podcast before, and I was just looking for a flat Earth podcast and yours was like the only one that came up. And I was listening

to an interview and it was you. I can't remember who it was, but you basically started talking about Christ and I was just like what amen Like, it's incredible and I immediately wanted to meet you and know you and hear hear about you. And I know this isn't this is your show to interview me and things like that, but I would love an opportunity to just hear your testimony as well, because you are It's been great to listen to your

podcast. I greatly appreciate that. And likewise, all gloria to God forgiven me the courage and forgiving me the support, the support, uh my wife. You know, I would venture to say that there's a lot of people whose wives may not be so much for this forum, with this thought process, but you know, she's my rock and she has always supported me.

And uh, you know, glory to God and for my family and forgiving me the courage to do this because you know, being on a I'm not a big name or anything like that, but you're always going to catch flack. And I know when I speak with conviction, I don't honestly care what the negative thoughts and the things that are thrown at me. I just hope that it bounces off and I always come back humbly right because it's you know, as a Christian, you want to lead by example, and I just

say, hey, thanks for the email. Thanks, I kill them with kindness, Thanks for listening to the podcast. So you know, it's important what we do here, and with a fact hunter and everything. It's something that started as I saw human suffering firsthand on many occasions. And I was just a nice Palestine, Ohio last week and my heart felt for those people.

You know, this stuff happens around the world. But at the same time, I know at the end of the day that in the truth community and I think more people are realizing it all leads back to the Gospel of Jesus, and I'm thankful that, you know, he'd led me to start this podcast, and I've been able to meet so many strong Christians like yourself, So again, Justin, it was really a pleasure to meet you. Oh same for you, jord it was I'm really grateful to God for the

opportunity. Thank you, and to all the listeners, thank you for your continued support and for your emails and your messages. It's been a one full journey here in this I guess year and a half already one hundred and fifty plus episodes. I've got to meet so many wonderful people from around the world, and we've got more people coming in the near future. Again, reach out by email if you'd like to join us, like Justin did this even and God bless each and every one of you, and keep your head on

a swivel. And until we meet again, my friends, we will see you. I know it's been a struggle. I don't know if you've had spain fee the time? Hell down about all the way? Yeah? I know you feel more. Your smile ain't the same I saw well go from you feel like you've lost your way. Don't give up. No, don't give in and never on this home. Don't let go the primise. He ain't done yet, he's gone up plaid. Why it's your right time? Got up? Let me come? Why afraid? Got up? Y go?

I can see straight beside you, child's are putting up the fid. Oh you're stronger than anything you. Yeah, you're gone, be all right, you're accepting a dead value. Beautiful you're shoving bride. Yeah, you're live and breathe move, you can hold your head of hide. Don't give up, No, don't give in, never lose home. Don't they go on the primise? It ain't dounion's got a plan? WA's a way? Tell the God of Merica. Don't give up? No, don't give in,

never lose home, don't let go on the promise? It ain't confess worth live man? What's a plain down? The god may call? WHA's a place down? Tavy? Co oh? Yeah, what's a break out the god t co oh? Yeah? You got tv cor. Don't give up, No, don't give in? Never sol do they go of the primise? I mean and don yehs got a play? What's a kind of ey cos? Don't give no dog giving? Never hold? Do they go the primes? It ain't done? Love's worth even watch and God of in

coors all the God of needs? Why the God of your you're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'am,