Episode 139: Flat Earth Conversation with Chris Bozung

The following present is Del Marvis Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It is time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files. I hope everyone is having a great week. As we record. It is Saturday afternoon, January the twentieth, on the heels of a pretty good storm where we got five or six inches of snow. Got a lot of exercise the last twenty four hours shoveling. The chickens are not pleased. They do

not like the snow at all, but they're good. Got little heaters in their house, you know. With all that being said, everything is fine, The roads are cleared, and everyone is happy at healthy as I hope this podcast finds you. Just a couple of quick reminders before we begin our interview, please do stop by our website, the Flatter Earthfiles dot com. Stop in the chat room and say hello. If you have questions about the Flat Earth, leave them in the forum. You can email me and I'll

certainly reply to you. But when you leave them in the forum, you'll get a lot more answers and kind of help connect some of the rabbit holes for you and maybe even make a few more acquaintances. So again, that is the flat Earthfiles dot com. Questions, comments, concerns, or you would like to join us like Chris is today, send us an email to the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Again, it is the flat earth Files at gmail dot com, and we're pretty much all caught up on

our emails for the most part. A few of you have been asking for the slide presentation, making just a few more updates. I thought I was pleased. I gave a I went over with somebody locally, and I think the chronology and some things were I was not pleased with. So I'm kind of revamping it. But to the few of you who have recently asked for that, I will get that to you out in the next few days and feel free to share it. Take my name off, put yours on it.

You know, the more the merrier. So there you go. That takes care of the housekeeping force today. Joining us from the great state of Colorado that I made home for about seven years is author christ orper Bozung and his book is Uncommon Question from an Extraordinary Savior. Jesus never asked a question because he needed to know the answer. And again the Ford is written by Leonard Sweet and again joining us for the second time. We're lucky to have

Chris with us. Chris, how are you doing today, sir? Very good? How are you sir? I can't complain and it's great to have you back on. And we had a nice little chat prior to hitting the record button. And I know you were just on a few months ago. But as we said, you know, we're always having new listeners, so please do take some time and introduce yourself to the audience. Yeah, so my name's Chris Bosong. Just had a birthday New Year's Day. Happy birthday,

sir. Yeah. Yeah, Actually it's kind of a little funny story. My grandmother was also born on New Year's Day. Doctor who delivered me was born on New Year's Day. And I had a great grandmother die on New Year's Day. Oh my goodness, you hit or missed that day. So why I've done basically two things my whole life, handyman work and painting, and minished with a lot of very interesting jobs throughout the years, especially during my education years. For example, when planes hit on nine to eleven,

I was work. I was in charge of the meetings on two hundred and twenty four apartments and in between in between pastoring different churches through the years. I was a mailman for about a year, and that's interesting. So I've done quite a bit, you know, kind of fun. I shouldn't say this, but I'm convinced the post Office is not in the business of delivering mail. They're in the business of providing union jobs. Yeah, that's a fact. It's an interesting place. My dad, he was a letter

carrier for twenty five years. And I know many of the listeners are too. I get a lot of emails from and I have the utmost respect, you know, as they say, sleep uh, And I loved it. Yeah, I was going to write a book called the Postal Diet because I lost twenty five pounds in the first I don't know, five weeks or something. Oh I bet yeah. And I'm not a big guy. So I'd come home and I'd lay on the floor and I just lay on. I was so beat. So I have heard a lot of spectra those guys.

But and I did joining. By the way, so hey when in Rome, yeah, exactly, who can blame you? So go ahead. So basically, so basically, maybe a tiny bit of this is the repeat, but I'll keep it briefing when I was. When I was a kid, and I'm saying, like six seven, my dad had me painting my house. I'd been in my grandmother's house. On the next year, when I was eight years old, a guy on my brother's paper route needed his garage painted. So I was my first professional pay job. Yeah, I got

twenty bucks. So I basically done handyman work and and and you know, painting all through the years. And I my dad was an engineer with work pharmaceutical. We could go down that rap. That's a good one. Yeah. And he's lived off his pension. Said he retired in nineteen ninety three. He's ninety nweties, still living off his pension. You can believe they made good money back then. Anyway. The other thing that I have done my whole life is ministry. I got saved when I was fifteen. I

grew up in the Catholic Church. Got saved. And because my dad was an engineer, and because I thought the way engineers think, my dad said you should go down the Laternal College in Long Texas. I went down to the Laternal. If you don't, if you have never looked into Rglaternal, RGI Laternal gave ninety percent of his income to the lord instead of ten percent, and he created he literally created one of the biggest earth movement equipment in

the world. For a while. It was called Marathon Laturno, and I don't know what it's called now, might have been brought out by other companies. He also was the one that designed the whole idea of oil rigs going up and down in Gulf of Mexico. It's like hurricane came in. He created the mechanism to make them go higher. So he did a lot of stuff. But anyway, went to Latnal College, got introduced to Bible classes, which I'd never had in my life, and ended up going to Bible

College in Philadelphia. Went to Philadelphia College of Bible. Oh you mentioned your dad had gone here. I forgot to look in the yearbook to see he said eighty five. Yeah, And I had that question. We had a you know, around Christmas time. I said, hey, guys, when did dad go to Bible College in Philadelphia? You know, my mom gave one answer, seventy nine. My older sister said eighty three. So yeah, who knows it's We'll just say it was early eighties. Yeah, early

eighties. That's what we decided. And then from there through through Philadelphia College of Bible. Uh, they have a program where you can go to Israel and study for a year. So I went over to Israel. That was a great, just a great, great experience, and and I could tell you a million stories about that. It's just just unbelievable. Came back, I met my wife, went down to Dallas Seminary for a four year masters and then then uh, when there's a lot of ministry in between pastoring churches

all the whole nine yards. And then went to Region University, Virginia Beach and got my doctorate there and and uh that was during before during and you know, after nine to eleven, that that time periods. And then I ministered in Iowa for quite a few years in the church, and then and then did but supply for a number of years, of course, supplicating my income with handyman work and that sort of thing. So right now I'm doing

full time handyman work and not not full time ministry. But anyway, that's kind that's kind of my background. So long View, So you went to school originally Longview, Texas kind of northeast by the Louisiana border. Yes, sir, Yeah, you can smell the pine trees are a forget they call that area, but yep, yeah, like by natcha go was it Natacochis or something like that, the Nacadochis, So listen to Nacadoches. My wife is her her, she's a descendant of Native American Indians and they are Guardo

and Francesco. They owned the land that the Nacodoches airport is on and they were never compensated for that land being teaken from. But that's where her family's from. The Nacadocia. Say, that's interesting. Yeah, so long ago. And then when I, of course when I was in Dallas. Summer is in Dallas, so we probably spent I probably spent about five years in Texas. All wegether and then your book, which we're gonna we're gonna readdress

again closer to Easter. As we as we noted prior to the podcast, Uncommon questions from an extraordinary Savior. Uh for the new listeners again, what motivated you and moved you to write that book? And just a brief synopsis on what it's about. So, when I was working on my doctor, I wrote a dissertation. I had never seen a definitive work on the questions

that Jesus asked. We know, we obviously have the miracles, we have the terribles, but I looked into the questions and I found there's three hundred and forty questions in in the in the Bible. I have to say the Bible, because there's questions outside of the Gospels, Like there's questions in the book asks when Jesus confronts Saul, all saw, why do you persecute me? Right, So there's other questions in the New Testament. And I took that I turned it around into a very readable book. So if you if

you get the book, it's very well. You read a couple of chapters geor it, right, So it's very readable, fun little thing, but it basically my goal is to help people when they read a question that Jesus is asking in the Gospels. My goal is that they look at those questions and say, well, he's not asking because he needed to know the answer. Why is he asking that question? And I just think it was a fascinating study. I wanted to share it with the world and and put it

in there, you know. So yeah, anyway, so, like you said, maybe closer Easter, we can we can we can come back and uh touch on that, you know, emphasize some of that stuff. But it's a great little read. It's not it's not a very big book. I always jokingly tell people throw it in your bathroom, throw it on the back of the toilet. But some people put it on in a nightstand.

I'm not kidding, because it's a it's and actually the way I've got formated, uh, in all seriousness, it does have talking points, it's got a prayer at the end. And I and I've sold I've never sold one on Amazon. Let's get that straight, because somebody out there is selling them cheaper than me. But I have sold cases of them to people. They basically write and you'd say, hey, we're doing a we're doing a Bible

study. Can you send me thirty copies? You know, and they they'll use it as a Bible study, and churches will buy it or whatever individuals will buy it, and they'll they'll they'll use it for Sunday school and that sort of things. So, and I've actually taught through a lot of the questions in the PowerPoint formed in Sunday school, classes, and if I get

cold for polplad supply. A lot of times I'll grab one of the questions because I just think they're very interesting, very different, and something new that people haven't really looked at before. And it's a no brainer when you say Jesus never asked a question because he needed to know the answer, that's a noe breaker. But then you start to look at the questions like when Jesus is when Jesus's parents lose it in Jerusalem when he's when he's twelve, he

says, why were you looking for me? I had to be about my parents' business. So it's like, it's just it's just a very interesting, very fascinating study. I hope people will contact you in and ask for a copy or so. Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm going to drop this off to my local pastor this weekend and let him read through it. And because that's what we do down there, that they'll get books like this and they'll do a three four six week time kind of you know,

that'll be the focus. Uh. One really interesting book was kind of like how, you know, how did churches get to where they are today? Right? What's the problem. How do you address the problems because so many churches today are facing but I mean attendance problems. Let's just call it what it is. It's that they've lost so much of their attendance. Their

congregation is diminished by fifty percent. Here where I live, within a just say a ten mile radius of where I sit, I would say the average church goer, and I'm probably being kind here is fifty eight years old. And that's probably being kind. Yeah, And that is another big problem. There seems to be if you get closer to the city, they're more of

the upbeat. You've got your guitars, you've got your drums. And I'm not saying there's a wrong where finally the trucks came by to shovel our streets later, all right, but you know, you know that seems to be more popular with the younger generation. And I tell the story of ken Ham.

He mentioned a couple months ago that he was he was asked by a church in Indiana to speak, and he gets there in the twenty five year old young She's got the headset and the clipboard and she's like saying, how the whole thing worked, and it was it was more of a like a

studio type of event than it was an actual service. And again I am not judging anyone how they run their their fellowship, but it is just interesting to see how the older generations still prefer a couple of hymns and testimony and prayer, whereas the younger generation is more into the music and you know that type of thing. Period. Yeah, so i'mio, yeah, And I don't know if it is a problem. I don't know if it's just hey, because you hear the in all walks of life, you know you've got

to change otherwise you're gonna just fall by the wayside. But I'm not sure if that should apply in this What are your thoughts? Well, I would have to agree. How good to be honest, I've kind of come full circle. I was raised in the Catholic Church, and honest, when you when you think of the Catholic Church, Okay, I don't have a lot of good to say about it now, I'll I won't. I won't say that, right, but but you think about how the service is designed.

It's designed for all of our senses. You've got the organ music, you've got the the singing, you've got the Canter by the way, my dad before before our family was saved, my dad was a camping together. Right. You've got the incense and the candles and the smells for your nose. You come in the door and you touch the water, right, the water that's supposed to be holy water. You've got the stained glass for your eyes. Right, You've got the vaulted ceilings. I mean, everything about the

experience is for a whole body, the whole sense is Right. Then we go into these churches, like you said that, there are so modern, and you know, everything's black, everything's dark, everything's controlled. And now I've kind of come full circle. When I was in Israel, one of the classes that I had required us to visit multiple We had to visit multiple churches outside of whatever our faith experience was at that time. I would go in like a Coptic church. You go in a Coptic church, they don't

even care that you're there. They're performing a ritual and you're you're a spectator. I don't even think you participate. Of course, it's been forty years now since I was in that church. Here, Ethiopian churches, oh my gosh, you know, all different kinds of churches. Some you participate, some you don't participate, Some you have some you have to say things at the right time, you get up, you kneel at the right time,

you know. But anyway, Yeah, I'm to the point now I don't know that I kind of like, I kind of like some of that stuff, you know what I mean. I mean, I think the theologies, you know, I think the theologies out the door, and I don't want to hurt any of the listeners that are listening here. As a Catholic, I wasn't I wasn't saved. I didn't know how to be saved, and I don't think they they teach salvation. That's not to say there aren't Catholics

that aren't saved. I wasn't saved. It's a Catholic, let's put it that way. But the experience there can really be can really be emotional, can be spiritual, can be can be deep, and can be challenging in some of these churches that that have the things that the modern generations you see. So yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned Ethiopia, and I'm this is out of left field. A lot of people think that the the Ethiopians, many of them are the descendants of King Solomon and Queen Shiva.

Is that something you've ever looked into. I haven't looked into it, but I but my understanding is that it's possible the Orca, the Covenant is or or at least one of the original manuscripts like the Torah, would be in their possession. It's very interesting that we don't have the Arca that Covenant de

we and we know there's really no record of it being destroyed. But when the Babylonians and other and other other different Assyrians came in and they conquered Jerusalem and the various cop you know, various wars that they had with with with Israel, they carried off these things. They carry off the goal you know, from the and they carried these things. Often there's really no record of where those things are. You know that that kind of leads me down another

rabbit hole that maybe you've not considered, but maybe you have. I'm absolutely convinced that I'm convinced that some of the things that are discovered are either hidden or destroyed. If you're in Israel and you're an Israeli archaeologist and you find something that says Jesus slept here, like you know, we say Washington slept. You're gonna either destroy, destroy it, or hide it, in my opinion, because why would you validate another of faith that's not your faith.

And and I've only been I've only been down this, I've only been a truth gosh, since the beginning of COVID, have only been a flat earth for about seven months let's say, last last May, whatever that is. But I'm convinced that that the Smithsonian and and and some of the people that were sent out by the presidents like god Lewis and Clark were not so much sent out, in my opinion, to discover land as much as they were to record it and come back and warn what was out you see what I'm

saying. And I've convinced that some of these you know we talk about giants, right, I wonder how many giant skeletons are in the Smithsonian are buried underground right in the balls when I'm you know what I'm saying, Yeah, awesome it is. And I've pondered that before many times. People believe that. At least I think the the Ethiopians are the one that kind of say that they have held the Arc of the Covenant in exhum. I think it's

Aksum in Ethiopia since the late seventeenth century. And I've seen specials, you know, where they have these guys, these monks or whatever they may be called. I'm sorry that that are like twenty four to seven three sixty five, just like our Honor Guard down in DC or in Virginia right right, or the ones in England, the guys with the big tall hats and they're

doing their thing. It's like, literally they have this I wouldn't say this elite guard, but there are people twenty four to seven three sixty five. And one of the famous explorers on the Discovery Channel. I can see him, I can hear his voice, but I can't remember his name. He got close to him and he was able to actually a camera shot across, but they didn't let him anywhere near actually going in. So is it possible? Sure? And you know what I will tell you about the Smithsonian because

I actually did a podcast on it a couple of years ago. I think the Smithsonian is more geared toward deception that then maybe they're hiding things too, but I think that's more to deceive, and I will tell you if you guys paused the podcast for a second, and if you look at the Smithsonian's logo and then google the Jesuit logo, you will see a very close similarity between the two. So I think because I've been to the Smithsonian, it's

been decades. I was a teenager maybe, but they have the uh all the moon landing stuff, they have dinosaurs, they have a lot of that type of thing. So I think it is a place to deceive and and maybe they do hide stuff, but I think if you look at the movie, what's the one the Declaration of Independence with Nicholas Cage not the Treasure Hue Treasure, National Treasure. Yeah, and if you remember at the end of a I think it was the first one. You know, they go downstairs

and they open up a butt and there's just all this historical stuff. I think that is disclosure. Whether it's Fort Knox or or in your neck of the woods in Denver, there's reportedly all kinds of underground and you have shining Mountain there things inside the mountain, uh, in your neck of the woods as well. So I mean that is quite the rabbit hole. And again,

the chances of actually finding that out are who knows. I think they fashioned history and they formed it. And you think about, you know, why is it that one hundred hundred fifty years ago we were going into places like Egypt and bringing home mummies to well, Great Britain was doing it, you know, bringing old mummies and bringing home all these treasures. And now, of course there's a debate on whether they should be returned, you know,

to these different countries and things. But I think they were. It was a combination and probably looking for uh, you know, the key to life. What do they call that? The youth? You know, found a youth who knows? But I think part of it might just be the hide history, the high history, you know, you know the original plan of the each movie one from sixty eight or where, Yeah it was and uh and and of course the main guy, you know, he can't talk

to but he takes a stick and he writes on the ground. And when the when the lead guy comes over the ape, he well, he crosses it off somehow, you know what I mean, He crosses Maybe he's the one that had a stick or a king or something, but he crosses off. What the what the words were? I see that I just see that. I mean, you know, it's hiding. It's kind of like it's kind of like hiding flat Earth. You know. Yeah, that one of my buddy's favorite movies. A Map, That's one of my buddies famous movies.

And he equates that nineteen sixty eight movie, which nineteen sixty eight, my goodness, thirty three years away from two thousand and one, all the things that happened in sixty eight, and you know, Charlton Heston dropping to his knees. It's just everything is so Yeah. And by the way, Rod Serling from the Twilight Zone, he was the actual one of the original

screenwriters of that movie. Oh wow. So anyway, that's that's kind of how I feel that we were talking about the Ethiopian church there and that sort of stuff. My understanding is exactly what you said. We're no modern day scientists or whatever you want to call them, is allowed to savt that sort of stuff. You're not allowed to You just can't go wait, it's not allowed. So indeed, one hundred percent you have to basically that. I

think that's their life. I don't even think those guys are married. Those guys in Ethiopia who protect the protect the arc according to their narrative. Yeah, no, that could be. That could very well be true, or they're just guarding it, right, Yep. Interesting stuff. Let's talk a little bit if you don't mind. Can we talk a little bit about your new Facebook page, which I've invited I'm part of now and I haven't invited some of my friends. It's not just flat Earth, but something we've talked

about prior, young biosphere and createationism. Yeah, so, so here's what I'm doing there. That used to be when I when I became flatter Earth or last last, I think it's May. I think May is when I just like the switch flipped and it all made sense to me. And I'd gone down the rabbit every other quote unquote conspiracy, but the flat Earth was just one I just couldn't I and once and once I flipped that switch,

there was no going back. So I had a Facebook group, which the numbers are diminished by probably by fifty percent now and and I and before I left the group, I handed it to somebody, but I pretty much stripped off most of my posts because because I figured, you know, now's the time to do it, Chris. And it's very interesting because right after I got right after I left that group, I went back and I posted a

few things about flat Earth. They actually banned me. Now, of course they banned me from my own group, but I guess I can't say it was my own group because at that point i'd given the group up. Right, they banned me for like two weeks from having comments and things in my own group. That group was called Young Biosphere Creationism. So what I've done is I created a new one called Biblical creationism. You know, really really

kind of original, right, So I've I've recently changed that. Now I decided since I'm coming back on your show, they changed it the flat Earth comma Young Biosphere comma creationism, and and and uh, let's talk a little bit about that, what it means, what it what it's trying to do. So, without trying to step on any toes out there or one of the one of the things that the Facebook group is going to do, because I haven't done it yet, I'm going to put on near a the list

of beliefs what I believe. And by the way, back when I was in seminary, when we were taught, when we did well, the personal statement of faith that churches call them doctoral statements. We developed one I've got I've got one that's uh I think font fought ten. It's over sixteen pages long. We were told not only say what you believe, but say what you don't believe. So on that page, I'm going to say things like I believe in a flat earth, but I did not deny a globe,

so right, you know, a positive and negative. That's sort of So what I'm trying to do is, I'm I'm hoping that we can take some of the old Old Earth creationists and some of the Yellow Earth creationists, bring them into the group and show them where scripture find to what they believe, and show them how scripture is actually one step beyond what they're believing. I'm not, even, by the way, going to approach things like evolution, because to me, evolution is like saying, you know, you believe the

COVID shots effect. Right, it's nonsense, it's nonsense. That's a good one. But there is some truth in Old Earth creationism, and there is some truth in Young Earth creation I'll point out a couple couple places where where there is some truth. But what I'm trying to do is get closer to one hundred percent truth. So Old Earth creationism rightly so believes that on Day four that the Sun and the Moon were made visible to a person on Earth. So the thing they get right, in my opinion, is that from

the surface of the Earth. Genesis one was written from a viewer on Earth's perspective. It isn't written from I'm standing way back here and over there is what's going on. It's written from a person standing on the surface of the Earth. So when you look at verse two in Genesis, it says now that the Earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. By

that, by the way, that that's NIV. And I actually have the the cris Boson version of MSIs one, and it's not it's not what I just read. But anyway, that's that's what the says, and you can read it in the King James. It really doesn't matter. My point is that that's written from the perspective of someone standing on the surface of the Earth and they're looking out and they're seeing the thing that the darkness is actually over

the surface of the deep. The darkness is not throughout the whole universe. You see the difference. It's from the perspective the persons standing on the earth and that person in verse two can't see the sun, and and the perspective I take with the flat earth Comma young biosphere creationism is that in the beginning God created the universe. That's verse one. That those words heaven and earth

in verse one, or heaven and earth if you're reading King James. By the way, the word heaven's in the Hebrew is always plural, So we're not saying that King James is wrong. It's it's completely correct. But the point is it's it's a mirrorsm for the word of universe. So in the beginning, God creates the universe. What is that encompass? Well, encompass the Earth, the Sun, and the stars. So old Earth creationism gets right the fact that on day four, what we're doing there is we're seeing

the sun and we're seeing the stars for the first time. The word bara used in verse one is not found in verses nine through a fourteenth, which is day four. The word bar it it doesn't exist on day four in

those versus. I'm gonna unlike last time. I'm gonna pause more often so you can interject things, and then I'll keep going, yeah, no, you're you're, You're doing fine, and a lot of people when when it talks about verse two, what it talks about was upon the face of the deep, obviously that is talking about the waters which would eventually be separated by

the firmament. Would you agree with that? Yes, I would agree with that because I don't think the word deep is the act as an accurate English translation, and that is something I'm sorry, go ahead, I was just going to say, if you even literally the work deep, at least from the English language, that usually does refer to some type of water, right,

Yes, I I think it refers to water. But but it's kind of like the use there is never going to be used again in scripture because from that point on, that that particular hebreere war is going to be applied to oceans. So so if you have something in verse one that changes throughout the rest of the Bible, it's never going to be quite that nuanced that it is in that verse, because from that point on, it's it's divided. So anytime you see that Hebrew word k home is is t t e

h O m is in the English. I think in verse two it's kind of an anomaly where you're not going to see it again. Does that makes sense? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, t home means that's the Biblical Hebrew word for the deep, t home. Yep, yeah, correct. And from that point on in scripture we could certainly say it means the ocean, it means the deep, it means you know, it would be the things we'd use today. But but in that particular case, it's not

yet divided, right yep, indeed it's not. It's not yet divided. We get until six verse six, Ye, let the expanse between the Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the water from water. Yep. So at that point there's my Jersey acts of water. Water water. We call it water in Delaware water water. So anyway, so I

think Old Earth creation gets right day exactly. I think Youllow Earth creation gets it wrong because Young Earth creationism, when they read verses fourteen to nineteen, they think that God at that point is creating the sun, creating the moon, and creating the stars. And I think they get that wrong because Bara is not found in versus fourteen to nineteen. By the way, let's let's talk about day four just for a second before it falls out of my brain.

Sure, and this is this is a an IV. I just happened to use the I. But any translate. You can get this from any translations. So so let me read the first part, and I want you to read the first part of that sentence. It's just to see what the King James says, because I don't have it. My my version says, and God said, let there be lights in the expanse of the sky. What is what is your saying, King King James says? And God said, let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the

day from the night. And then, yeah, I didn't. I didn't read that part to separate the day from I guess. So it says pretty much the same thing. You know what it says in the Hebrew. So our English basically says, we just agreed that. Our English says, let there be lights, right, you know what it says in the Hebrew.

It's in the Hebrew. It says, let the lights, Let the lights be, not let there be lights, but the lights bings in the English ye let the lights be in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. So the hebrews acknowledging the fact the lights are already there. But that doesn't make sense to most translators. And if, by the way, if I was a translator, I've done the Hebrew and the Greek co work, I've done the years, right, if I was translating a

Bible before it became a flat earther, and I get a buddy. By the way, I had a good friend who was a He was what do you want to call it, an admin on my Facebook group, And man, this guy's he knows this Hebrew like nobody else, and he's actually doing

a translation scripture. And at the time he asked me for my translation Genesis one, and I said him my translation to Genesis one, which I don't have him for me if I should have it from him, But I said to him that verse fourteen says let the lights be, and he agreed with that one hundred percent. So he agreed that what verse fourteen is saying in the Hebrew is that the lights are already there, and now God is saying, let the lights be in the expanse of the sky to separate the day

from the night, and let them service signs to mark the seasons. But the problem is that most translators we you do, I have a bias. All of us have a bias. Right, Oh, certainly, absolutely the NIV. Let me tell you what the NIB translators. Yet most of the NIB translators is by the way. I'm not sure you can get a list anymore. And I could be wrong about this. I'm not sure you can get a list of the original NIB translators. But the original NIB translators were

not pre triggers. And I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole here about what we believe about the tribulation, pre tribulation or not. But those translators were not pre tribulations. So what if you're going to turn and study, Oh, it's the rapture of pre post trib midtrip, don't hear. Here's the NIV because those translators were not pre triversed. Do you see what I'm saying? So here in the Hebrew it says let the lights be an

expanse of the sky to separate the day from them. So it's alreadized in fact that the lights is there for those first time listeners. How are the lights there? Verse one? In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth, and that's a mirrorsm for the universe. In the beginning, God created the universe, and what he's doing beginning in verse three is he's now preparing the biosphere on Earth and in the universe he's treating the biosphere for

life. And then on Day's five and six he creates light. I know you're right notes this. I'm gonna pause. I'll let you jump in. You know. The one thing I think I forgot to address earlier was what maybe you mentioned I missing, And if I did, I'm sorry. But what did you mention in the group that was prior to your group that you

can created that that defended the moderator so much? Uh? Well, and and the other people the fact that I now wasn't flat Earth, so it was just the simple fact that you were a flat Earth or that just they couldn't handle. Well. I I was a globe birth guy when I created that group for sure. And then when I announced I actually announced the group,

I said, I'm not trying to dissuay the group at all. But I'm now announcing an official announcement that I've become a flat earth and that there was there was, there were enough guys in here that they decided that they actually suggested that I should be thrown out. Well it was my group. That's incredible group. But let me ask you, and I don't know if I should say this. No, go ahead, Sorry, no, no,

it's okay, go ahead. I was just gonna I was gonna tell you the truth here, and I don't hope I don't get in trouble with it. Apparently you're not supposed to sell Facebook groups. I sold this. I sold it. I sold it to a guy as I'm gonna, I'm not gonna trash the group. I removed a lot of my posts, but a guy literally then bowed me money and bought the group's you see what I'm

saying. So I got out of the group. And then another guy saying you can't sell a Facebook group, and I'm like, hey, I created it. I put my sweat equity into that for years, but now I'm a flat earther and you know what, fine, if somebody wants to take over the group. And one guy said, hey, I'll take it over. We agreed on a price, and he bought the group and I removed myself as admin. And once you do that, you can't make any more changes. Correct, And then he banned me for two weeks. So that'll

show you. Yeah, there are people who for a living what will You can go to them, say what they will like, get a big audience, you can pay that X amount of money, and you take over the group. Then all of a sudden you have ten thousand followers. That that is not out of the realm of normalcy for sure. Well, well, what one guy told me. He says, you're not allowed to sell Facebook groups. I said, watch me, it's my group. Yeah, so I sold the group. So anyway, so that that's what it was.

It basically is that I believe I still hold you a lot of the truths of Young Biosphere creationism, which which we can unpack here because I because what I'm trying to do with this new group is I'm trying to to show your listeners that we have a very we have a group that is very biblical and and George, my expertise is not in science necessarily or or things like that.

Although you know, I've certainly studied science and history and that's sort of I got a minor in history, by the way, But my expertise is in the scripture. So so that's what I'm trying to do. I'm I listened to a lot of podcasts. You can listen to. You can listen to anybody that's out there. You can listen to your entire podcast and you're lucky if you get one or two Bible pursts yep, you know. But

my expertise is the scripture. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to take now what I know as a as a new a newbie flat earther, and say, okay, here's how I uh sales tail right into what I know about scripture, Yeah, for sure. And I wanted to kind of do it. Add on one more thing, because when you come on

here, you always cite your scripture versus when you're bringing your thoughts. So when this took place with your previous group, did you try to show people, you know, like this is why you know, when I read Genesis fourteen and things like this as globers the other folks, did they come back to you with any versus substantiating the globe or was it just that that cognitive dissonance and they just shut down. It was a little bit of both.

But basically what happened with some of the and these are not dummies. By when you go in that group and you got guys the prehds coming out the wazoo, well, I don't I'm not positive about there might be a couple of guys with PhDs. But but these guys do know their stuff. Sure. Put it that way, like if you get a master's degree, do you get a mass degree from Dallas summoning, which I have, that's one hundred and twenty six hours, that's as long as a bachelor's Sure, and

you're getting years of Hebrew and years of Greek and everything else. So these

these are no dummies. But what they do is they would post links to some of these creations groups that exist at Young Earth creationist groups and and of course the Young Earth creationist groups have broached the subject of flat Earth and they poof food it and they and they of course because that's their agenda's Young Earth creationism, so they so they would post these guys would put in my group, would post these links there and say here, read this, churse,

watch this. And at that point, I didn't have to read or watch it. I've spent my entire life studying scripture of theology. I didn't need to hear from somebody else what the text said, because I know what the text says. You know what I'm saying. And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but it's just you know what you're doing if you've been doing it your whole life. So at that point I knew I was just kind of wasting my time. I figured, well, I'm just gonna

get out of it instead of trashing it. So so so let me say one thing too, and I'm gonna say this in a very very gentle way. Every once in a while I hear a person on a podcast that trashes a good theological or seminary education, and I think that, I think we're I think we're doing ourselves as flat earthers, are doing ourselves a disservice. I think we ought to do with Jesus. Did Jesus judged the heart, he judge the education. Because you have Nicodemus. You have Nicodemus who had

an education. Obviously, and he comes to Jesus at night. Jesus is looking at his heart. Just because someone like me has the education I have doesn't mean I'm an expert but it but it does mean you may be listen to a little more than you would listen to, say, a guy that's read a book. You know what I'm saying by that without trying to pap myself on the back, because the education takes you so deep that you are able to look at look at something and say, you know, it doesn't

feel right, you know. And I do find that from time to time on podcasts where people will will poohful an ordination or poofu a doctor degree or something like that, And I'm just saying, let's let's be cheerful not to do that too much, because look at the heart. I mean, you can have a guy out there like Carl Sagan. Yeah, he doesn't know what he's he's trained and what he's trained in and doesn't believe in God. Okay, maybe maybe we can look at that and say, yeah, you

know, we're gonna judge that a little bit. Anyway, I was a stoping it because I know you're writing notes, so no, you're good and in the most part, at least on this podcast. When we talk about education, we're talking more about the public education KA twelve, which which is hijacked by the federal government. I have secondary, yeah, I've got here. I've got two associates, and I've got my bachelor's in business, and some of them came in handy. At the same time, there is an

agenda. I went to Texas, A and M and I could see the leftist agenda that was in place. And again you look at the Communist manifesto and the ten planks, and education is one of them, having the government control education. But at the same time, I think the seminary, I mean kudos to anybody who wants to further their education into reading the Bible. Learning Hebrew was something that I wish, and this is an excuse, it's

a crush. I wish I had the time to do it. I could make time and do it, and maybe someday down the road, when I'm done educating my little one, maybe I'll take that time to that next level into getting into God's word. Because every time something is this is a fact, every time something is translated, it does lose a little bit of its meaning. And I talk to people all that time who say that King James didn't have any bias at all. That is hogwash. Every single human being

has some type of bias. I think everybody has a boy. Yoh, yeah, I agree one hundred from Sam. Yes, there you go. I agree. By the way, we owned schooled all four of our kids, God bless you. We started thir We started thirty years ago when nobody was well, I shouldn't say nobody, but when a lot of people were doing it. Do you know that in anyway? I think that I want to mention this real quick. In twenty nineteen, I think it was between

two and three percent of the public home schooled after COVID. As of twenty twenty three, last year, it's like eight percent. Now, yeah, yeah, that's good. Yep. And it's interesting. I won't get on this soapbox, but it's interesting because I think some people school at home and some people homeschool, and there's a big difference. That's a great point.

Yeah, schooling and home is. Schooling at home is taking all the books from the from the public school in a home and letting your kids, whereas homeschooling is say I always say the difference between homeschooling and a public education is who's asking the questions. There's my questions that Jesus and he can you can tell it's influenced by life, you know, when you're home school and the

kids asked the questions. In public school, you and I, George, we'd put our hand up when we were brown nosers, we asked the questions. Oh yeah, a teacher was asking the question. I would be horrified when I was younger if if I got called on, because if you get it wrong, you know, the kids are just so torture as to make fun of you, You're dummy. Uh. I was. I was one

of those kids. Always raised my hand. I always. I mean the kids, you know, they knew me as that kind of a guy who you know, kid who and I and I of course I got probably got need fun up, but I was. I loved it. I enjoyed it.

So anyway, let's get back now to the difference between the Facebook group and developing now and and what so now we talked about Old Earth creationism, and so one of the things that they do is they take each of the six days and they make each of the six days a billion years a million years till whatever you know. H Ross is a big proponent of that,

and I think is theology is not in line with what scripture teaches. And I want people to know that one of the things that I believe as a flatter young biosphere creations, I do not believe in death before sent me sentient death before the fall. Okay, sentient death is the death of animals and the death of humans. So I do not believe in sentient death before the fall. Does that make sense? No? Take me a little break it

down a little bit, Okay, Okay, I break it down. This is what you actually believe this George, as a young you're a Young Earth creationist. Am I right? For the most part, yep, I would say that, okay for now, you all right here? When we get

done with the podcast, maybe so. So, you do not believe according to script crime gets that any anyone died before the fall and at the and when Adams and Eve sinned, God took animals or an animal, and he he sacrificed those animals and make coats of skin for Adam and Eve to physically and visually show Adam and Eve. That's that, as Hebrew says, there's no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. That's what it says in

the Book of Hebrews. So God had to kill an animal, sacrifice an animal to show physically and visually to Adam and Eve that they needed something to cover their skin, to cover their sin, rather their sin, and then he says them in Genesis three fifteen. The Genesis three point fifteen is the promise of the Redeemer that would come. The Redeemer would come. And by the way, that Adam and he have had no idea what that meant,

except that somebody would come to eventually redeem their sins. I hear once in a while people pooing on dispensationalism. But let me tell you what dispensationalism gets right. Dispensationalism gets right the fact that in the old estimate they had no idea who Jesus was. If you had, if you had walked up to Abraham and says said, did Jesus die for your sins? He go, what are you talking about? If you said, if you walked up to David and said, Jesus died for your sins, he'd be like, what

are you talking about? So what dispensationalism gets right? Is it gets right? The progressive revelation of scripture. Scripture is progressively revealed to people. And one of the things that surprises people, and I say this all the time in Facebook discussions and different things, not all the Bible's written for you. We think, we think as Christians, I think maybe as American Christians, we think the world revolves around so we think all of the Bibles for us.

Yeah. So, so there's verses in scripture that are only written for the Jews. There are verses and there are prophecies and verses and scriptures that are only written for specific nations. There's verses in scripture that are only written for Christians, and we take I'll give you a great example. And I'm not trying to step on in stones here. I hope everybody understands my heart that I'm trying to. I'm trying to refine what we say, and I'm

trying to make it more accurate to what Scripture teaches. Here as opposed to busting on people for inadvertently saying things. For example, we say, if my people who are called by mind name will humble themselves, I will forgive their sense and restore the Ruay. Right, that's first chronicles seven. That right, first chronicle seven. Lush, Now I'm even doubting myself. Don't

be a doubt in Thomas. Oh yeah, don't be a doubt in the people out there are going to know the verse because someone turned it into a song. He said, verse chronicle seven. Hey, I'm wrong, what is it? Is? That? What it is? What verse? First chronicle seven? Not seven? You can't bege seven because that's just type in it. If my people who are called my mind sway we join, oh, second chronicle seven, fourteen, If my people which are called by my

name shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face there it is. Yeah. Yeah, so that's you know, that's a verse. That's a verse written for one one people, God's people, God's the nation of this It is not written for us. God's not We can umble ourselves all over all we want and repent of our since God is not gonna not that. God's not blessing America. Don't get me wrong, but God is not promising anything to the nation of America. Nation, you know, in nice states of

America. You see my point that anyway, I say all that to say that not all scripture is written for us. Can can there be applications? They're sure? Take that person appuiet to America and we should humble ourselves, we should repent ourselves. But don't take that as a promise that God has said he's going to restore America, because he's not talking near to America. And the point is that if you had said to the average Jew, Jesus died for your sins, he'd be like, who are you talking about?

But progressive revelation revealed the fact that as as prophecies were given and as they were filled, that Jesus came from the genealogy and was and was born of the flesh and became men and then died on the cross. Okay, now we can say to somebody living today that Jesus died for your sinant and we can show that from scripture. So okay, So getting back to and if you want to want to jump into anything, you know, since you brought it up to two questions. Number one, what is time to God?

Because we're you know, we have so many people who you know, especially if you can get into YouTube. And again I'm not picking or anything like that. There's a lot of prophecy out there today. What is time to God compared to what humans, you know, see his time? And that that's exactly what I said. You know, we talked about a little bit. It's a bit of our first our first first podcast. I believe with verse one, God created all physical walls, traded time. He created time

in the beginning, and that's when everything kicks in. So he creates the Sun, he creates the moon, he creates the stars. Time begins. The Earth is the the Sun is going around the Earth at that point. But from the perspective of someone standing on the side of the Earth, can't see the Sun, they can't see the moon, they can't see the stars until day four. Day one begins with verse three, and God says, let there be light. So there's blackness on this there's darkness on the surface

of the deep. According to verse two. And then all of a sudden verse three, God says, let there be light, and that light from the sun that was created in verse one now shines and illumines the is that the right word illumines the atmosphere. And it's not till day four, though, that the sun actually physically becomes visible. It's kind of like going out on a gray day. They're in Delaware. You know the sun's out, but you can't see it. It's just too gray. Same thing with the

stars, same thing with the moon. So that's the progressive development of the biosphere in those six days. So time begins in verse one when God creates the universe. That's when the clocks start stipping. Is there a human a ticking? Is there a human alive to experience that? Nope? Who experienced that? Well, God did create something else in that beginning. He created the angels. So the angels then begin, uh, experiencing time before humans

are created on day six, before they experienced the time. And it's interesting because in job thirty eight, and we've mentioned job thirty eight, we should all know by art because that was the uh it was a pastor otal that talks about the the stamp yep that the wa the wax stand by the way, I listened to your podcast the other day that church church got the snow on it, not out his church. Oh yeah, Pastor Locke's roof collapsed. Yeah, like what the heck? Yeah, karma, that's all I

gotta say. Karma, And I don't believe in right right right by the big At the beginning this podcast, you said good block Chris or something like that. Yeah, I don't believe luck, but I know what you meant, so we use those words, right sure, Sure, But anyway, Joe thirty eight four to seven basically talks about how the company of celestial beings sang together and shouted for joy at the creation of the earth. So they must have been created before the creation of the earth. So anyway, so

there's your time. I think that's your time answer. I think time. I personally think time was created before people could record the fact that the Sun and the moon were going around the surface of the flat earth. Spot on and the other one I did want to drop just because you brought it up. And it's actually it's a legit point. And this is one of the more common emails I get, because you know, so much of the world does revolve around this coun tree, right the United States? They say,

as the US goes, so is the world. But there's a lot of people out there who think that the United States is Babylon. What are your thoughts on that? You know, we should we could come back at some point if you want to. I hate to say this, but I would really love to immerse myself back in the book of Revelation, really, because I've listened to so many podcasts in the last seven months, and I see so many people suggesting things, and I'm saying, Chris, Okay, what

were you taught in seminary? Me? What have you learned? What have you taught? And now go back? And I guess the best thing I could say, George is I'm not ready to give it definitive answer on you know. That's like, like, for example, one of the things I hear is people a lot of your a lot of your guests and stuff talk about how stars are angels and angels stars. I'm not quite shower Matt yet. So and I've listen into it. I've listened to this stuff for seven

months and guess what, I don't know yet. Yeah. And I love to hear those things because I do the same thing. I go searching as well, and those kind of things caused me to search. And you know, that's why I love being talked to so many different people who have so many different ideas, And when I have those conversations, it always pushes me back into the Bible. So that's a good thing. I tell you, what a lot of your trying to find six six six in revelation? Is

that Latin three? What's that? Is that revelation thirteen three? For some reason, that's in my head? Let me look it up real quick. I'll tell you I had more fall out of my head than I have retained in my head. Oh no, the thirteen three is the wound? Yeah, somebody out there shouting at it straight now? Oh, here it is, here, it is. It's thirteen it's thirteen eighteen, thirteen eighteen. Okay, you know it's interesting. We're going to be deceived by the market

beast, or or I shouldn't say we. Okay, I'll truth be told. I'm a I'm a free trigger. Right, Okay, let's just throw it out. People are gonna let me just say people are gonna be deceived by the market beast. But here's a very interesting thing that we all say. The market of the beast is six six six. Well, if we all know that, how are we going to be deceived? How are we

going to be deceived those six six six? If I tell you that you're driving down the road and you see a red car, you're gonna be shot at. They're gonna open the window and you're gonna shoot it. So you're driving down the road, you see a red car, Well, you're gonna be prepared. Every red car you're gonna duck. So how how are we gonna be deceived by six sixty six? Well, can I tell you what? The two oldest and most valuable texts that we have of the Book of

Rebelition have six one six, not six six six. So somebody somewhere after the second century change six six sixths. I'm sorry, they changed six one six to six sixty six. So the bulk of our manuscripts after the second century have six six six. Somebody changed from six one six. So if you go to the two most valuable manuscripts, and if you want to look this up, look up a guy named Daniel Wallace. Daniel Wallace is one of the authorities on Greek. He is Okay, I'll tell you how.

I'll tell you the Dan Wallace's I spent four years of Dallas summery. I think we had to have three years of Greek. I had six different Greek professors. I never once took Dan Wallace because I didn't want to flow. Wow, I knew if I took Dan Wallace fun the class so I could I could eat by with other grades. Know what I'm saying. I wasn't going to take Dan Wallace. Now we use this book, by the way, any other classes. I understand why this my professor. So his book

is the Basics of New Testament syntax. Yes it is. It is heavier than a newborn baby. I'm telling you it's sure. Now, I don't know that it necessarily says it in that book, don't get me wrong. But one of the things that Dan Wallace has said is that our most valuable text, the two oldest and most valuable prior to the second century, have six one six, not six sixty six. And I and you just think

of my illustration I just told you with the red car. How is it that so many people are going to be deceaved because they're going to be looking for the wrong thing. So according to this Papyrus one fifteen, which is the oldest preserved manuscript of the Revelation, UH says that the original Arabic numerals were six one six, not six sixty six. Exact. You see what I'm trying to say, where's my breaking new sound effect. What's that?

I said, where's my uh, breaking new sound effect when you need it? Oh? Yeah, I like the little coin things. Yeah, there you go. So so here's my point. We we think we we think we're one up on Satan because we figured out flat earth willmar thing. He's got other aces up asleep. Right, we're gonna be looking for number six sixty six. Guess what. That's not what the original manuscript says. It

says six one. Did you see the point I'm trying to make. Yeah, but you know what's interesting that what are the first three words of revelation thirteen eighteen? Uh, it's here is wisdom, and I think it's important. There's no comma. If anyone has insight, yeah, it's here's wisdom. Period. And then let him have understanding. Count the number of the beasts. Yes, that that's really And then of course again the translation it

went from six one six to six sixty six. Apparently apparently did it not? I mean, well, according to the oldest papyrus that that that we have on record. That's my point. My point is how much value is there in studying these There's a lot because we can see how we've been to see and why let's go ahead now. I was simply going to say, why isn't this like like I'd love to know if you're listening to the podcast right now where we're now in five minutes in paust the have you heard of

this before? You're like, send me an email you or maybe I'll put I'll see if I can put a poll on the website. Uh, but this will go out Tuesday night. So by Tuesday I'll have a poll on the website. Have you heard of six? One? Six being the numbers? One beasts on my uh on my uh oh yeah'll put it on your Facebook page too, the yeah name and just see what people say. No, I've known this for years, okay, but now I have a platform. Yeah, and maybe I've heard of it. It is just kind of

you know how things go in life. You Yeah, your spipes can only hold so much, and every now and then you bring it out. The problem that I have is there's so much general knowledge out there that people have about scripture that sometimes it's so hard begin to sit down and listen to what

scriptures saying. I mean, like like the whole flat Earth thing, I mean I I talked to other believers like I did, like I told you with my with my Facebook group, and they just don't they there are more sewing brain that we just don't want to all right, do you want me to move on to continuing we're basically talking about a doctrinal developing a doctoral uh statement, let's say for for flatter young biassel So, so for those out there, well, and I didn't mention this the first I heard post first

podcast, but I personally believe, and we say this that I don't believe of the death of scenting life before the fall, and that's what you believe. You might not know that that's what you believe. Now, now I got to say that create up there. God formed the plant on day sure, verse the lab, and let the lab produce educations, set burning plants and on the land, and we have fruit and seed in it. Can you repeat that? When you read that, you were kind of off,

Oh I was off the mic. Sorry, God, this is verse four Genesis one, verse fourteen, And let the land produce vegetation, seed bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit and seed in it according to the various kinds and the land produced vegetation plants bearing seed according to so. So, what I'm saying is here, So so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back for seconds. A bigger paintbrush. We have. We have this very nice astrophysicist named KEW. Ross. I think that's a

background. And he holds to Old Earth creationism. And one of the things that Hugh Ross believes is he believes in the death of sentient life before the fall. I do not. I believe that as the New Testament particularly says that with one man, sin entered the world and death death. With one man, death entered the world by his sin, right, that's Adam Adam, when Adam sin death entered the world. And then people so people say, well, what what did Adam and Eve eat in the garden of Eden?

Well they ate plants. Well, okay, did that plant die when he ate it? No? So in America, and I don't know, I don't I don't live in other countries, but we Americans. You know, I don't know if you have ever gotten in trouble for killing a plant that your wife, you know, Georgia killed that plant. Okay, that's English, that's maybe American maybe they maybe they have it in other countries probably, But in Hebrew you don't kill a plant because the plant's not all alive.

In Cheabra, if you're developing a Hebrew doctrine of death, death only applies to animals and humans, and we call that sentient life. It doesn't apply to plants. So if you pull a potato up out of your garden or turn up, you're in Hebrew. You're not chilling that plant, you see. So, so Adam and Eve could eat in the garden of Eden prior to the fall, and we could still have the doctrinal statements say there

was no death prior to the fall. And that's that's why I think older creationism falls on its face because they're not following what I believe is a proper development of the doctrine's sin in script Sure that basically says that when out of sin, death entered the world. Right Anyway, I want to say that because I want people to know I'm not a young art creationist. I'm not

a older creations but I hold these doctrines very close to me. And you would agree with that, doctor, I know, well, when I say you, I'm using the plural. You your listeners, right Christmas, you would agree with that. I also believe in a literal six days. I believe in a literal six twenty four hour days. And we talked about this on the first podcast when we when we mentioned on the first day of Christmas, my true look gave to me a partridge in the pear tree. And

then we we talked about what scripture does. It basically says and God said, and that was evening and morning the X day. So each of those days begins, it ends with a phrase, and the phrase does not begin to verse three, So the six days themselves don't begin until verse three. So the six days of preparation do not begin until verse three. So I

believe in six literal twenty four hour days beginning in verse three. And anybody's wondering if you're listening to this podcast and go back to the third first podcast, and we talk about Exodus twenty eleven and how the word creat is not found in Exodus twenty eleven. It's the word saw, it's the word prepared. God prepared the earth in six days. He created the earth in the beginning versus Genesis one to one. He then prepares the youth subsequently over a

period of six. So anyway, we're developing this biblical doctrinal state. Put that way. For my Facebook group, I'm putting in there the fact that I've belave in six literal base, but take note of the fact that they don't begin until verse three. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve.

There's another there's another belief out there that there work. This kind of goes with I guess you could say it's kind of evolutions, poisoning of the wealth, that there were multiple I don't know what the right word is apes, you know, over millions of years, and then at some point that eight becomes a human and that one is the one we call Adam. Wow, really, first man's for what's that? That's a little blasphemous, I think so, But it's out there and and this is the poisoning of the well,

and I just want to make sure that we hold. I hold the fact that there was a literal Adam and he created by God on day six period. You know, I shouldn't even be so surprised by that because I know people, and I know people locally who believed that. Both their explanation is that evolution and the Big Bag theory happened just God. It was all in compon. You know, God was in control of it. But it

did happen, but God was in control of it. So it's almost like they took you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan from the right hand, the Bible on the left, and they put them in a blender, and that's what they that's the product that they present now, pure pure Young Biosphere creationism, the group that I left on Facebook. When I was there, I actually believed in the Big Bang. But I've rejected now the Big

Bag because you flat earthers brought me in. So you brought me in, and I brought when I what I came with in my suitcase is scripture. There you go, and the Hebrew. And now I'm saying, yeah, I don't believe in the Big bet. So I was there with the Big Bang. I wasn't. I was never there. I think before I got saved at age fifteen, I held the evolution because that's a big school. So so, by the way, wait, I believe in a literal fall.

I believe that Adam and Eve literally fell right. I believe in a universal or global flood capital f I believe the fossil record today is primarily the result of Noah's flood or recent activity since then. You know, I affirm catastrophic flood geology, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I want, I want to do one thing, George. I want to go back to you love this, you love me? Spending two hours on one verse No, I'm serious, going back to Genesis one, verse two. Yeah,

So so listen to this. We we take Let's go to day six. Okay, I'll let you answer the questions because that way I'll go slow. I don't want to go to bits. I'm not saying you're slow. I'm saying I don't want to go Oh no, I'm so. So what what's that I'm slow? That's fine? What do we what do we have

on day six? And you can you can choose to use of the word created for those for those that are listening to ver first time, we're delineating between the word are I create and the the most common verb found in in this chapter is a saw. So, so one of the things you're just a repeat, but one of the things I said between Genesis one one and Genesis two four. By the way, most scholars consider Genesis one one the Genesis two for a complete unit. Unfortunately, our chapter divisions start verse two,

Chapter two, verses one to four. They put it in chapter two. Who the original chapter divisions accidentally? What's the right word? I don't know. Maybe maybe maybe they were God guided by the God of this world. Say for chapter two, the first four verses are really the last four verses of chapter ones. That makes sense. I could agree more. I think the perfect ending to a chapter one would have been and these are the generations of heavens and of earth that were created in the day the Lord God

made the heavens and the earth. Like that would have been kind of because it does include the Seventh Day verses one through three, right, exactly, exactly exactly, yes, yes, okay, So anyway, on verse six, what did God? What did God? A saw? What did God do? By the way, I'd love to repeat this example. If I go into the kitchen and I say I'm going to do the dishes, do is a saw? The dishes are already there, already exists. So most of what God did during the six days is a saw. He did the

dishes. When you say, do we know that means wash? We know that mentally that means wash back just law. Yeah, And I'm not sure, by the way, if a saw technically can be translated wash in the right that just using the under example, it's kind of a word, that's example. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So okay, so what what happened to these it? Oh on day six? That they said verse six

day was the creation of the cattle. And he called them the creeping things, the beast of the earth after his kind, and it was so, and then make man in our image, our likeness. Uh, you got having dominion of the fish, et cetera. Okay, so now let's summarize day five. So I'm just summarize just bringing forth the waters and having the earth in the open firmament of the oven. And then he talks more about the whales and the fish. And I'm sorry, did I say verse five

day? Day five? Beginning at verse one, and God said, let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that have life and foul may fly above the earth and the open firmament of the heaven. Okay, So if we're somarizing that, we can basically say that God created sea, animals and birds. Absolutely Okay, good, Okay, let's summarize and like a half a sentence verse versus well, day four, verses fourteen to nineteen, God,

well, that's what the sun of the moon. Let there be lights in the firmament to divide the day for that night, and of course the signs for the seasons and the days for the years. Okay, So I'm gonna I'm you don't have to agree with this. I'm not asking you to greet this, but I'm going to call that the assignments of the celestial body.

Sure, absolutely, because I personally believe they were created in verse one assignment of the Okay, Now, how about day three, and we're going to summarize this with maybe that's basically dividing the water and having the dry land which was known as the earth. Can I call that habitable atmosphere? Absolutely? Sure? Okay, how about day two. Let's see Day two is like we were saying, dividing the waters with the firmament, and he also

called the firm moment the heaven. Okay, And how about day one be versus three of them, God said, let there be light, and there was light, and he saw that it was good, and he divided the light for the darkness. Okay, so now I'm gonna start with verse six because our day six, because as we just started, started with day sticks. So I'm going to say, let's take away Adam need. Okay, let's take away the land animals. I'm going backwards now, right, we're

walking backwards. Take Away the land animals. Subtract the sea animals, subtract the birds. Oh good, I love you. Looking up, you're thinking about eliminate, eliminate the assignment of the celestial bodies. Take away the habital atmosphere. Sink the land back into the ocean. Plunge, plunge the planet in the darkness. That's verse two. What are you left with? The only thing you're left with is the light from verse three. Right, No, let's take away plunge, plunge the planet in the dark. Okay.

So basically you have the face of the deep am I missing with? You're left with everything in verse two, you're left with the fully formed planet and the spirit of God. It's sitting in darkness, it's covering water, it's devoid of life. Yep. And as we said last in our last podcast. It's the exact description of Joe thirty eight verses one to twelve. Job thirty eight the oldest the oldest, oldest book in the Bible in the Bible.

So it's the exact description. And it's interesting because people somehow read into this, and I was one of them for a while, don't get me wrong. But when we begin with verse three, we actually, somehow in our mind have the creation of the planet, creation of It's not there though, nowhere from verse three on is that Earth creating. It's already sitting before

verse three. And what God is. What we've just what we've just done by going backwards, is we've subtracted everything that God saw, everything God did in six days, and all we had all those six days, we come up with the fact that He formed a biosphere. It's the creation or formation. I shouldn't use the word creation. It's the formation of the biosphere in six days, and it's the creation of sentient life on days five and six.

Anything other than that happened in verse one makes sense. Yeah. And by the way, one thing I had written down to mention when you were talking about sentience and the difference between you know, death, I guess I think what they really get to is something that has to have feelings to be able to discern things, and humans and animals are about because certainly dogs do.

When my dog knows she's bad, she puts her head down right when she does something in that, I think the way that some people say is that humans have a body, soul and spirit. Animals have a body and soul, and plants just have a bought Yeah you see what I'm saying. Yeah, that's it. It's very big, very big paintbrush. But you get what I'm saying. Yep. So absolutely. Anyway, I had some lot of things. I don't know what you're doing on time. Yeah,

we got about fifteen minutes left. So if there's any bullet points that you'd really like to to hammer home and again, folks, the links h Chris's email address, and the link to the Facebook page and the link to the first podcast in case you missed that, all that will be in the show notes, So go ahead, sir. So one of the things that I guess I want to talk about here is we kind of ended the podcast last time by saying that, well, Jesus didn't Jesus affirm a six day creation.

I guess I got to turn to the passenger. I'm looking in my notes here find the passage, but in a New Testament. Matthew nineteen.

Let's turn Matthew. Let's turn to Matthew nineteen. Okay, because this seems this seems to be a big one for for people to jump from Young Earth creations to what I I'm trying to get them to go to, which is young biosphere creation Now, by the way, I'm not trying to get you to really, I'm not really not trying to get you to go to young bias for creation in its original form, because I'm I'm although I hold most

of the tenets of young biosphere creationism, I'm no longer a young biosopher creationist. I'm a flatter Earth young biosphere creationism with creationists, which means I reject I reject the glow of Earth. And if you are truly a young biosphere creationist, you still believe in a flat Earth, you still believe that the planets exist. As NASA tells us, she still believed in billions and billions of galaxies. Is Neil or Carl Sagan or one of them would say,

right, right? So and I and I reject all that, but I'm trying to get Young Earth creationists to well, I think wing Gish, I think who was the other big one beside Gish? That they did a lot of good work, Don't get me wrong, but now I want to I want to tighten it up and bring people a little farther. So anyway, in chapter nineteen, Matthew nineteen, it says haven't you read? He replied

that from the beginning of the Creator. Uh, from the at the beginning, the Creator made the male of female and said, for this reason the wife, a man will leave his father and his mother, and knight to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let man not separate. So people read this and then they say, ah, I hear everything he said, Chris, But I guess it's just it's Gee,

you know, you're going against what Jesus said. Jesus said a front, he's a firming a sixth staate creation creation. Uh, George, I just filled whole pile of water on my desk. Can you give me one second? One? All right? You're good? Okay, So here. So here's what I'm saying. We read this passage, and is there a particular I'm asking you this, George, so you just use played Devil's advocate for is there a particular word that jumps out at you that says, well,

Jesus is a firm in their six state creation? Is there one particular word that jumps out? Sorry, I added myself muted, Well you're tsing about nineteen Matthew, nineteen four. Yeah, mmm, no, nothing that I see, except for the part when he says at the beginning, when he made them male and female. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's the word I'm trying to So people see the word ending. You see the wording getting yep, and our mind takes us to Genesis one one yep,

right, immediately go to Genesis one. Ormsay, well, Jesus says in the beginning, you know, she made them male and female. So therefore, if Jesus says the beginning, he's talking about the creation of Adam and Eve. Therefore, Chris, everything you've just said about Genesis one and two happening prior to the six days doesn't hold water. The division I'm making is I'm making a division between Genesis one and Genesis two and the six days

beginning with verse three. Whereas most Young Earth creationists begin reading at verse one, they read all the way through verse five and they say that's the first day. And I'm saying, no, the first day begins with verse three. Something happened prior to to verse three. We already know, We've already established her at least I've established the fact that the sixth Genesis one one happens prior to the six days. So what Jesus is talking about here is he's

sitting there. If if you go back to verse three, he's some pharisees came up to test, and he's he's talked. His emphasis here, Jesus's emphasis is not on the six days. His emphasis is on what the Pharisees are trying to say, is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife? And the point that Jesus, the point that Jesus is addressing is divorce. That's what they're asking. They're trying to say, is it legal to have divorce? So whatever Jesus says from that point, he's not focused on

the timing. He's not focused on the sixth days. He does use the word beginning, because at that time there were no divisions in the towp in the in the Torah, He's bringing the brakins and the thoughts patterns of the pharisees back to when God created Adam and Eve. And you tell me if none of this makes sense, I'm going to give you an illustration that that'll that will help you. If if George, if you and your wife go on a seven day cruise and on the seventh day you go into the gift

shop and you buy some trinkets and take home. Technically speaking, no, let's say, let's let's say you go on a seven day cruise on the sixth day. On the sixth day, you go into the gift shop and you buy something. Technically speaking, when did you buy those things at the beginning of the cruise or at the end of them towards the end of the cruise. Towards the end of the cruise. So technically speaking, Adam and Eve were created at the end of the six days. They were created at

the beginning of the six days. So I'm trying to get people to get away from this idea that when we read the word beginning with our English hearing years that what we do is we say, oh God is or Jesus is

emphasizing the six state creation. What he's emphasizing here is that from the beginning, from the point that God established marriage, it was ordained by God that he created them male and female, not two males, not two females, and he created in the states to stay together for life, not divorced.

That's the thing that Jesus is arguing against. And when we read Genesis two twenty four, and I don't even you don't even have to look this up, because if you've gotten married with a Christian reading wedding, the chances are the pastor the officiant probably said this. He said for this reason, the two shall become one flesh. That's the point that Jesus is trying to make, is that a male and a female when they marry, become one flesh.

That's how Garter, not as ordained it from the beginning. He's not ordained two males together, he's not ordained two females together, and he's not sanctioned divorce. He wanted from the beginning. God wanted a male and a female in the marriag and from the beginning God wanted them to stay together and not get the worst. That's right, point right so here, let me give you one more example of why we shouldn't focus on that word beginning as

affirming a six day creation of the entire universe. There is a break between verses two and three. If we go to Luke's Gospel. I'm going to go to chapter one loof unsas many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who were handed down to us by those who from the

first were eyewitnesses and servants of the Word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigate everything from what uh it seemed good to me, also having perfect, perfect understanding of all things from the very first right under the in order the most excellus, the most excellent, Theophilus, does your does verse three have the word beginning in verse in your not not in KJV. You're on n I V right, Yes, let me switch real quick, hang on,

does it hapen in verse two anywhere? Okay? So verse three, with this in mind, since I have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I two decided to write an orderly account for you. So it is an NIV, not in kjav In, neither versus. So let's go off the

NIV for just a moment and play Devil's Advocate. I think Luke was alive creation of universe because he went back and he investigated everything from the beginning with this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, well, you know, to can't do that is what I'm saying, don't do it right? Right? Right? That's interesting? Now can you investigate via text? Sure? I think that's possible. I too, decided to

write an orderly account for you, most excellent theophulous. I guess what I'm trying to say is when did When did Luke begin? Is investing? Where do I think he started in the beginning beginning of what with with the with the beginning of what? What did Luke start with? The beginning? He started with the beginning of Jesus It's ministry to invest He didn't start with he didn't start without him and even the beginning of time? Right, And that's

that's the that's the kind of tongue in cheek point. I'm trying to make your thean is when we that's tongue in cheek. Point. My point is when we read the word beginning, you have to consider the context. Oh sure, at the beginning of a baseball game is not the beginning of time, The beginning of your day is not the beginning of the week, is exactly Yeah, sure, And that's I'm going back now to Matthew nineteen saying when Jesus said from the beginning he created the male and femail, he doesn't.

He's not commenting on what we would think would be. We see the word beginning in verse one and say, oh, that's where he's taking this. You see, I'm trying. I'm arguing against that. I think you get pointed at this point, right yep, Okay, I probably talked enough here and I spilled water all over the desk. Well, yeah, it's

it's been great having you again. There's lots to follow up on. I've got two pages of notes, and I've got to make make sure you all go to the Facebook page join say hello, and it's always good to have conversations and to learn from each other. And maybe I'll come in. I'll try to come in once a day and leave some some Scripture in there, and you know I'll come out as as a proud flat earther and I'm assuming, uh, by the way, something I want to run past you because

I mentioned ken ken Ham a lot ken Ham. He has this response that because people will come up to him and say, well, you know, when someone says to you that, you know you're one of these Young Earth creationists. He replies with, I'm actually a revelationist, no death before Adam redemptionist. He says, in order to uphold the Gospel, our starting point must be scripture. Well, I already agree with that saving because I've said that I think a true, uh systematic theology of death. We're creating a

doctrine of death in scripture. Death doesn't happen until Adam. Since yep, so I I agree with that statement. And that's why i'm That's why i'm I have difficulty with Hugh Ross because Hugh Ross believes in death of said the life before before the fall. He has to, because he takes each of

the six days and he makes the millions of billions of use. I've not studied his work closely, but that's the gist of Old Earth creation is sure, but I'm agreeing with Young Earth creationists, but now I'm trying to get Young Earth creations to parse words as we do. Is get blat Earthers and say day one begins with verse three. And that's the biggest problem I have

with Young Earth creations. Although they get all those things right, like the you know, they leave in a universal flood most for the most part, Yeah, well done. Learned a lot more today. I've got a lot of reading to do. And again, folks, if you have questions, Chris's email address will be in the show description, Chris Bosong at gmail dot com. Don't worry about trying to write it down again. You can copy and paste it right from the show notes as well as the Facebook page and

the link to the first podcast. Again, Chris, thank you so much for your time, and I want to give you the last word, sir. Last word maybe this time would be just one of the things my professor and seminary used to say, put the cookies on the bottom show. I mean, let's when we unpack the word God. Let's make it so people can just reach it and understand it, don't convolute it. You've noticed that I haven't said things like bab consecutive in the Hebrew. I know all that

stuff. My goal is to make it simple. So do I know all that You want to talk about Bob Bob consecutives? Yeah, we can talk about that, but I'm not going to to do that. Year they put the cookies on the bottom shelf. Make it understandable for people. That's my goal, cookies on the bottom shelf. And the military we used an achronym called kiss that that's, you know, keep it simple, stupid, that's

what they used to do. Yeah, and when do you get these new lieutenants out of out of school and they try to use these big words when they're giving their presentations. Start major, come up there and speak English, lieutenant. So there you go. It's been a pleasure to have you. I hope again I'm on the page, so I hope to see you all link up, join the Facebook page and let's learn from each other. And

everyone have a great week. And again, lots of interesting weather continuing without the country, so be careful in your travels and God bless you all. You guys know where to find me. It's the Flat the Flat Earth Files at gmail dot com. And again I look forward to hearing from everyone for Chris, I am George, God blessed. Keep your head on a swivel until we meet again. We will see. I know it's been a struggle. I don't know you've had spain. I know you feel t hell down

all the way. Yeah, I know you feel them all you smile ain't the same. I saw way go from you feel like you've lost your way. Don't give up. No, don't give it and nevers hold, don't let all the primis. He ain't done yet. He's got a plan. Why it's a right? God up? May come? Why wait? God up, mcle I can see the street beside you. Child's are putting up five. Oh, you're stronger than any thing. You guy, You're gonna be all right. You're accepting a bit found beautiful. You're shoving ride.

Yeah, you're live and breathing. Move you can hold your head a hide. Don't give up. No, don't give in, never lose home. Don't let go on the primise it ain't doniets God a clay Why some raintail the God of me comes. Don't give up, No, don't give in. You never lose home. Don't let go on the primis it ain't out of life. It's worth than man. What's a plain tail? The God up baby calls? Why surprise down? Got it up? It comes? Oh yes, what surprise down? The God up baby comes? Oh yeah,

you got even call. Don't give up, no, don't give in never les hol do they goal of the primise and done? Ye's got a plane waits and red kid of in it cos I don't give no dog giving whatever the hold? Don't they goal of the crimeas it ain't done? Lovers worth living watch and the God of every cos, oh, the God of need cos whys done? The God of in it comes. You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the Facts, Mammy,