Episode 120: Flat Earth Conversation with John

The following present is Del Marvi Studios Production. Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of the flat Earth Files. So if this podcast finds you well and everybody's having a great week standing by. We have a very special guest, John will be joining us in just a moment before we kick things off. Just a quick reminder, please stop by the website, the flat earthfiles dot com, say hello in the chatroom,

drop your thoughts in our forum. Much to do there. Again, it's the flat earthfiles dot com. And of course, if you'd like to join us, like John is tonight, please drop us a line. The email address is the flat Earthfiles at gmail dot com. Again, it's the flat earth Files at gmail dot com. Let's get to our special guest tonight, and he has the podcast and YouTube channel Awakening Truth, and I will have those links to his Facebook page and his YouTube channel in the show notes

when we're done. Please help us. Welcome John, John, how are you doing tonight? And I'm doing great? How are you doing tonight? Great? Had a really nice conversation before we hit the record button. A lot of things in common, So why don't you kind of introduce yourself to our audience, sir. Yeah, I appreciate being able to be here to thee. And one of the biggest reasons why I'm doing the work that I'm doing is because you know, I like to, you know, go out

and speak, you know, truth to people. And truth is the most important thing in fact, you know, it's the Bible says that it's truth that sets us free. Right, that's right. And so uh anyway, Uh, one of the biggest reasons why, you know, uh, or what draw me down the path of truth was in the very beginning, I grew up in a home that was kind of broken a little bit, and uh, you know, I had to get out of that lifestyle, if

you will, around those types of people. And uh so I went ahead and one of the one of the actually I went in to join the Navy, believe it or not. Yeah, they have one of those you know, recruiting stations that had all the different you know, the forces. Yeah,

and and it was supposed to be open. So I go to open the door and the door is locked, right, and nobody's in there, and I'm like, ah, and of course outcomes of staff sergeant from the Marines right walking on hey, you trying to see what I was up to, and you know it was over from there. He convinced me, and you know, I went ahead and went in and and you know, one of the biggest reasons why I did it. I was twenty years old when I did that, was to get away and start a new life. You

know, I had too many problems in that place. I had dealt with things that you know, did the drug scene, all that kind of stuff all through high school. And I needed I needed something to change in my life. And that was it. And uh, you know, so I went into the Marine Corps. I was still pretty rough and rowdy. You know. I struggled with alcoholism all those years, all the way through the Marine Corps. After one hundred percent, you know, alcoholic all the way.

Never gave that up. In fact, it got worse. But you know, one thing that happened to me is, you know, and I was going to a uh this is a pretty neat story. I was going to a night club. But before I did, I drank like a lot of alcohol. It was it was like a close to a whole bottle of tequila, you know, Because my life was I didn't really care if I lived or died almost during that time. And and I walked to this nightclub

and then on my way back, I don't remember what happened. And I ended up waking up and I was in a ditch and the ditch was right there next to a bridge, and they had broken up concrete and just kind of keep it from, you know, eroding away. And I and I got up and I had blood just everywhere, and I didn't have you know, I bled out a lot because I've been drinking, and you know, my, uh my, your your scalp bleeds a lot. And uh but I tell you, man, I something something grabbed a hold of me and

just drug me home. And that's no joke. I mean it literally drug me home because I didn't have the power to do it on myself. And my oldest daughter I was telling you about, she actually was home whenever whenever I basically got drug in there and she ended up, you know, calling the neighbor. They took me to the hospital. Of course, they had no mercy on me because I was drunk, and you know, you go to a hospital, they don't care. But they stapled my head closed and

all that kind of stuff. But you know, when I came to I realized something something happened to me that night and I couldn't explain it, and I knew something had happened. And I grew up in church as a kid. I never believed it. I always was rebel against it. I didn't want to have anything to do with it. I was picked on in school and I was picked on in the church. It didn't matter, you know it, And so I didn't want to have anything to do with that.

But I knew something had happened to me, and I didn't like I kind of deep down knew it was the Lord. But you know, it's one of those things where you just kind of let it go, you know, and then you continue. And later on I actually did finally quit drinking alcohol, and I realized I was married. My previous wife was was not you know, she was doing things that were not good, and and I ended up leaving that situation and later I ended up, you know, finding the

Lord. But uh, but what happened was is I uh, I decided to take a walk out because I knew I was I was, that marriage was over, and and I took a walk. I was living in Bisell, California at the time, and Uh, I went into this bar, I started shooting some pool I hadn't I wouldn't drinking anything. But it's just the place I was comfortable with. I've you know, been in bars for years. Sure, and uh I heard something and it was the first and

really the last, like truly audible voice I'd heard from the Lord. And he said, John choose and and at that moment I knew who it was and and and what he was saying to me, I mean, all at once, and I'm like, oh wow, the Lord Israel. And I start thinking on that time, you know where where I got drug? Out of there? You know, and you know, I believe it was an angel. I mean, that's just what I believe today. In fact, there's no doubt in my mind because I couldn't have done it on my own.

But I went ahead and went to a A A an institution of institutional churches. Uh and it was a great big one. I watched them, uh you know, build this thing, and but I really felt that's where I was supposed to go. So I went. And the story goes like this. You know, I went that Wednesday night and they had a great big you know, because this thing holds like three thousand people, and they had a big worship service, even on Wednesday night. It was a big

worship service. And I never heard when I went to church. It was like somebody got up led song show and that was about it. You know, that was about it. Most of them couldn't sing. And but anyway, these people were like it was it was a performance. Yeah, it was. It was really good. I was like, wow, these guys are really good. But I mean, you know, I didn't really feel any present. I mean, it was a good presence, it just wasn't like, like, you know, the presence of the Lord. I guess

now that I'm looking back on it. But and I went out. Nothing really happened that night. And I but as I went out, the guy at the little desk he said, hey, why don't you come back tomorrow. It's a young adult. This is I was twenty nine, So I figured out I could still be called a young adult. And now I look back, I was definitely young an adult. But I came back on Thursday

night and and and there was this guy there that was a guest. He was his name was Sean Smith, and he was a he was a black guy, and he was from Los Angeles, down down, you know, not too far from where I was at, maybe what two and a half hour drive or something like that, three hour drive and uh, but he worked at a local place there in Los Angeles that was in the city.

So there's a lot of things going on in Los Angeles. I don't know if you ever been to Los Angeles or not, but I've been through there several times that I've never spot spent a whole lot of time there, so you know, though it's it's the concrete jungle is indeed. But anyway, he was talking about how he had a day a day off, right, he had a day off or I shouldn't say a day off, a night

off where he was married. He was a young guy who was married, and he decided that, you know, he wanted to get home early, and he, you know, he didn't want to have to deal with church stuff because he was big in the church system. And so he got out into the parking lot and he wanted to go for his car, and of course this is in you know, downtown Los Angeles, and he saw a man there and he was wearing a trench coat and as he was wearing that

trench coat. He said to himself, Florda, I don't want to deal with this. Can I just go home? Because he figured there was something to happen, you know, he was homeless people, that kind of thing. And he said as soon as he said that, that guy start walking towards him. And he's like, okay, now, mind you. I'm in the back of this this room, in the very back, just listening to this guy talk right. Nobody really around me. Everybody was sitting in

front of me and just listening to this. And as I was listening to this, this the story continues, he goes, yeah, this guy came up to me. And as he approached me, I can see that he was an older man, that he had real leathery skin. You could tell he was definitely homeless. And he opened up his his trench coat and he had a pistol in his hand, and he looked at him and he said

he pointed the pistol right at him. He says, you got about fifteen seconds to tell me, you know why I shouldn't kill you and myself right now, because I'm done with life. And actually I should say before that, he said, he asked him if he was a pastor, you know, a pastor. And he said, yes, I am. And he says, well, and he said he was scared to death. He started because he knew the guy was real. You could tell that it wasn't a

joke. You could tell the guy had a hard life and it wouldn't be hard for somebody like that just to end his life and in his life. And he started, he started getting real, you know, fearful, and he and he the guy was running out of pace and he says, look, look, there's a there's a sandwich shop right down right here on the other side of this road. Can we go? Can I? Can I buy you a sandwich? And so he agreed to do it, I guess. And they went in there and he says, no, no place.

If I want to know, you know, what is the purpose? Why are we even here? Why should we be living? And you know, he's like, he starts saying things, well, Jesus died for you and all the normal Christian you know, verbiage that everybody hears. And and it was he's like, man, I heard all that. What you need to talk to me for real? And and uh, I guess. By that time, the sandwich had came out because it's just a cold sandwich. Didn't take very long. And they set it down and he looked up and he

realized he wanted to pray for the three. And he realized that's one thing he didn't do, was pray. There's power in prayer, Yes there is. And uh. When he said that, I'm sitting back there, and I'm telling you, George, I was sitting there. I can I can feel it right now. I mean, there was an overwhelming presence of God that was on me, that was so strong, and it's like it reached inside and grabbed a hold of my spine and I was I couldn't move,

I couldn't move and Tearstar there's nobody around me. Tearstart coming down my eyes and I'm like, what's going on? I never felt this before. And I could hear what he was saying still, and he said he closed his eyes and he said, Lord, I don't know what to do here. I need your help. Bless this food in Jesus name. And he looked up and he looked at that man and he's seeing that tears were flowing down his eyes and he said, what are you doing to me? He says,

what do you mean? He says, I can't move. I feel like something's got a hold of me, and it's got a hold of my spine. I mean, he described the exact same feeling that the Lord had in me. And from that day, George, I've been following the Lord like nobody's business. I love him. He is the most important thing to me. Nothing else matters. I met my wife there. She was there

for a reason. She'll tell you that. You know, before she came to California, she's from Ohio. Before she came to California, told her that she was going to go meet her husband. And she she found me this this broken man. You know that. Sorry, No, that's good, brother, that's so yeah, that's a that's an incredible story. It's just well, I mean it's my story, it's it's the Lord's absolutely and she she was, you know, perfect, and and she came into my

life. And but but that was a little bit later. But the Lord he got a hold and and I didn't have anybody telling me anything. The Lord he just he let me know who he was. And it was that point right there, you know, I got I felt a call of ministry of my life. You know, I met my wife there. Everywhere I go, she'd be there and it wasn't again three thousand people actually had two services and and and the auditor roum held like twenty seven hundred and fifty people

and they'd fill three half three quarters away. So you can do the math. And you know, I went to a class. She was there, the one of the pastors that was there. I said, hey, you should go to this group. I went there, she was there. You know, none of that, And so I met my wife. We ended up, you know, getting married after about a year or so, and we moved to Ohio and we've been in full time ministry or not full time, but you know, I mean ministry is full time to me, you

know, not not. I don't call ministry a vocation necessarily, it's it's a calling. So you know, the work of the Lord has always been strong on all of our all of our hearts. My wife, she's the reason why she was in California is because she's a singer. Uh she she was touring with the Celebrant Singers, which was a very conservative uh old school like Lawrence Welk style singing uh uh style if you will. But they were

very talented and I think they still do some stuff today. But they were based out of ISA, and she was there and she committed to six months of of working in the office and that's how she met me and we and you know, we were married. We went in the you know, at the churches. She was the worship you know, worship pastor. I was ended up being, you know, the teaching pastor associate pastor type role. And we were heavy into the all the big things that go with being a

part of this institutional church. And you know, and it wasn't that I was doing anything wrong. My heart was in it, you know. That's what I That's what I knew the church to be, you know. And we got to the point where we moved to back and forth. All this

time I've been working in maintenance. I went into maintenance management. I've been doing turning wrenches professionally for you know, thirty years, or or leading men to turn riches, you know, and some women, like I was saying before, but during this time, you know, I I went I went to, uh, there's a place called Global University. Of course they had to have that name, but there it's yeah, it's it's the Assembly is of God. It's it's actually based here in Springfield, Missouri. It's that's

it's about an hour and a half from here. But uh, we went to Assembly got churches and uh I was I actually applied to be a pastor minister and they denied me because I got divorced, you know before really and yeah they did, and that was when they were just changing it in their by laws to to make it alliable. But the guy that was over the the Ohio District council, uh, he's now over the national and it was too it was too it was it was politics. It was too much of

a political decision to let me do it. I would have been his first and so he denied it. And which is fine because we went to another non denominational church and became affiliated with them and we did a lot of it was a lot of good work there. And uh but anyway, we went. I went there, we moved back to Colorado. I got back into the Simley God Church and they were like, oh, no, we want

you to be a pastor now, we want you to do it. And it's actually getting to the point where you know, I was likely going to take over for this decent, beautiful, you know church as as their pastors. This guy's getting ready to retire, and I thought, maybe, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to make a living at this. I'm going to to do all these things that my you know, uh, my heart wanted to do. It was me. It was the flesh, right, it wasn't it wasn't the calling of the Lord. But uh, it's just

you know, it's what it's what tradition says is right. Uh. And so I was going to do that, and I was going through all the process. We already went through the interview that they were saying, yeah, you can be a part of this and all that. And it was about that time that I start really fundamentally going back and researching the Bible, actually researching, not because I you know, I went through that seminary section of things. I decided I'm just going to put away with what I learned there.

I'm just going to read the Word and I'm going to start from the beginning and I start learning about Neflim and you know, the giants and all that stuff previous to this. But I said, I'm going to go back to the to the to the beginning and I start reading just this chapter one, of course, right, and immediately as I was reading this, it

said, you know, on day one God creates what the light? That's right, right, And then I go I get I get to reading in there, and then I start reading about this firment thing, and I'm like, what is it? What is it? Firm really? You know, because they don't teach you that, and and at least not in the first part. So seminary maybe if you get into the higher education, which I did not, but uh, you know, it just you just you just kind of get taught to read through. Oh it's it's just the air,

it's the expanse. It's just that's all. I don't worry about it. Just keep move on, move along. So I didn't, and I read. I was trying to figure out what the front was. So I looked at the rakia and the raka and all the all the meanings that that that those are the you know, the descriptions of those. I'm like, WHOA, I don't understand that either. I mean, water above, water below.

That just doesn't make sense. And then I got on and I start reading about you know, how the sun wasn't even created till the fourth day, and I start scratching my head and I'm like, where did the light come from? Well, live in somebody toy, you know, Oh it's Jesus. Like, well, it says right there, and you know that there was light and then there was light, so the light was not there. Jesus is light. I'm not going to disagree with that, but that's

not what he's talking about here. He's talking about a true physical light for creation. And actually I can back up a little bit and that I don't think Genesis is the creation of all except for Genesis chapter one. I think Genesis chapter one, verse two and after is the genesis of mankind. By the way, I don't believe. I believe there is a gap there. But anyway, I'm reading through it and I'm like, this does not make sense. And so I stopped and I go, Lord, what does this

mean? I don't understand. And you know, I didn't hear like the voice I did when I was saying because I needed to hear that. You know, that's kind of like Jesus walking up, you know, to Tom was saying, put your hands on my fingers. This time, I just knew what he was talking about and he brought back a time whenever I was in the Marine Corps, and so I went, I was. I was in Colorado whenever I went in the Marine, so I went to the West

Coast. I was in California and first Phase boot camps and MC already San Diego. Second Phase boot camp is up in Camp Penalton, and that's northern San Diego County. It's kind of like that buffer between Los Angeles and southern California. R and uh but anyway, uh, there there was a very vivid picture came to my mind that the Lord gave it to me. So we used to do. They in the Marines called it humps. I don't know why this is what they call it, but you know that's when you

get all your gear on you go. You don't go walk and you go run basically with all the gear, you know, and you know, the dro and we went up all the way up the mountains and up the Grim Reaper is what they called it. You know, that's when the mountains up there, and then you come back down and then you hit the beach and

you're in the sand. Of course, sand is difficult as enough. And that was the last leg of this of this man, and you know, and you're feeling you're at the last of what you have inside you, but you're still gonna keep going, getting keep going. But when we came down, I noticed something in the background that was in nineteen ninety three. Nineteen ninety three had a it was one. It was rainy, it was it was I can't went in October. Was graduated in January, so it was

that colder month time and it rained almost every day. It was. It was weird. California didn't have that type of weather. I guess it was El Nino or something. But it rained, but then it would get you know, someone come out. And what it did was is that it cleared off all that you know, pollution and smog from from all the vehicles. And I remember, you know, walking out on the beach sand, you

know, in the sand. So my eyes are, you know, probably six eight feet off the off the ocean level and seeing two big beautiful islands and that those islands was it sand? Was it San Clemente Island? It was one and what was the other one? I think of the name of it, but it's out there, and he and he put those islands in my mind, because I remember when I saw those islands, even though I

was in severe pain, it made an impression on me. It was so beautiful, and uh, I was like, wow, those are they look their mountain islands, you know, they kind of look around me of Gilligan's Island whenever watching that as a kid. Sure, but anyway, it made an impression on me. And he brought that impression right back to me. And then I'm like, oh, oh, okay, so I man, I got on there, I start doing some you know, looking at it

in distances. And I looked at it and you know, I knew that I knew that the earth was flat because you couldn't see those things from where I was standing if there was a ball, and it was weird. And I don't know. So what I what I attribute that to is is that you know, and Daniel, it talks about that the Lord will you know,

give more knowledge. You know, he will wipe the scales basically off our eyes so we can see the things that we need to see as people who love him in order to be able to deal with the times in which we're living. You know, you're here, I'm here for the for the reason of going after truth, so people can be aware of what's going on in the world in which they live, so that more can come to the Kingdom of Heaven. And so he he placed it on my heart. I

realized it was and then I start looking. I mean, I start hitting up that this is before YouTube was, you know, all the algorithms just just punched it down. There was all kinds of good stuff. I picked up a Rob's CIBA video of his and he did one where he did one with Dean Otle together. He took Dean's video and then talked over it. And then I learned about Dean and and then I, you know, watched a whole bunch of his videos, and I learned a lot from that guy,

uh more than I have from any other quote unquote pastor. And and that that that's kind of how I walked down that flat Earth journey and I and I knew whenever all that happened, that kind of going back to that original conversation, I could not, in good consciousness, you know, agree to be a pastor over this church with all this understanding of true biblical well just big biblical truth, because I knew that that congregation would have nothing to

do with it. I'd be fired before I was before the service was over. They'd be escort you out of the building. Yeah, that board would be like get out, you know, And and that was and I was just fine with that. So I'll shut up for a second. Let you talk, because now that all great points and incredible stories. A couple of things I did want to touch on, going back to the very beginning.

It's interesting all the people that you meet in the military, many of the people including myself, uh more over the second time I joined because I had a break in service and went back in. It is people that are looking for fresh starts that have maybe I've said this many times, being a young man in America and and if you want a college education, getting in debt, just the quandaries you deal with as a young man. A lot of people do look at the military as you know, being given a second chance.

And for me it certainly was because at that time I needed the military more than the military needed me. And like like you, it led me to my wife, you know, twenty three, twenty four years ago. So it's certainly a blessing in disguise, and for me obviously, as you get older and since I've retired, you kind of come to learn what the military industrial complex and the people who are at the top of our food chain. But at the end of the day, I wouldn't people always say,

which if you could go back, would you change anything. I would never change anything that in my life. I think our path has been forged for us. Everybody has different paths because I think some of us really need to go to the bottom and come back up for us to really realize how things work and what it means to be responsible and just to gain whiz game wisdom. Many of the things that I come to understand today is because of the

mistakes I've made earlier in my life. Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Man, Absolutely, And I would never ever take back my time in the military, and a lot of it had most of it, in fact, just about every bit of it was just the brotherhood. You know, those guys that you just love them, you know, and you do anything for them, you know that they would do anything for you. That that you know. That part of the military. I love, Yeah, I

love it even today. And I'm sure there's a lot of that in like the in the police forces and so on and so forth. Those types of people that are still doing it for those right reasons, you know, God bless them. You know, I love them. I'm with you, though I I'm very cynical about the level of leadership you know that that controls them.

Now. I tell my kids do not go in the military. And it's not because I don't want them to be, uh, you know, patriotic, you know, but patriotism is is the way the way that I see it now is it's it's like a drug, right, you know, It's what what are we being patriotic about? You know, they don't nothing is truthful in that whole grand scheme of things. And you know, my

my position on a lot of that stuff is a lot like yours. I think in that you know, in fact, I go back to things like, uh, I think that the United States of America was founded and developed, you know, for the purpose of doing what it's doing now. And I think I thought you thought that. I figured you did because you know, the the ties to freemasonry and all that. My dad was a Freemason. By the way I was that was that was probably one of the bondages

that was on my life. Those those uh, what do you call it? Generational curses. Yeah, those come from that, you know, and Jesus could break them, right, So if you're out there and you're listening, Jesus could break those generational curses like that. But you have to be willing to do so, right, You have to be willing to give those

things up. But uh, you know I have I have in my family, like most of my family's from Texas, and you know, some of those ancestors of mine, uh, they have Texas State historical markers is on my mom's side, and they're they're they're they're the what do you call them, They're like the Washington Monument. I call them Dallas, right, Yeah. So I don't know if that's proper to say, no, it's it's what it is. And their freemason galore and they were top of the food

chain and in the government in Texas at the founding of the state. And I realized that, you know, they were part of that. You know that that's a and so is you know, most of our forefathers, if not all of them, but probably a good line's share of them. So now when I think about military and I think about the controllers, you know

it it makes me angry. It's a righteous anger, I think. But the way that I respond is trying to get the truth out, because if people know the truth, then that's how things will change, you know, if they're going to change. I mean, the Lord's going to have his will and his in his you know design, if you will, He's got his schedule, He's going to keep it. You know, he listens to you. He says, if my people, you know, who are calling, if we if we bow out and we've asked for forgiveness, He's going

to do it. You know, look it through the Book of King in the Book of Kings. But you know, eventually they did go into captivity. So it's going to happen, you know. And and and maybe this is the time that it's going to happen towards the end, you know, like the you know, the things called for during the last days, you know, and Matthew chapter twenty four. Everything Jesus said is happening like right

now. And that's where I'm like, I want to tell people. And it's not so much that I want to stop it or or you know, because I kind of do. But then again, my my bigger concern is is that people know it, so they're ready, so they can declare truth, and so they can be a light because the light is always going to be a lot more pronounced in the what in the darkness, that's right. So that's that's, that's that's one of the things that I want to do is be a light to the world, you know, as much as I

can. And in the reality is, though most people don't want to hear it, man, I mean, it's there's there's a there's a good number of people that do, don't get me wrong, But if you look at percentage wise the people that listen to these types of things, it's it's a very tiny percent of of of the grand people. Whenever I talk to people

that I used to minister to that I was their quote unquote pastor. And when I talk to him about it now, man, they're running out the door and you don't even you'll hear the door shut behind them because they're runn away cause they don't want to hear it. They just don't want to hear it. No, not at all. And earlier you had mentioned when you were contemplating getting the pastor, and you had mentioned part time full time when

we talk about continuing education. There's a lot of occupations out there that require X amount of hours of continuing education every year, whether it be nurses, doctors, and even in the military, if you want to go forward in the ranks and get promoted, you have to do continuing education types of classes. But I will tell you that being that, there is no such thing as being a part time pastor, which I think you would concur to because

you are always learning. The Bible is a big book, and it is a book where someone I can read a verse, you can read a verse, and we could come to different thoughts on what that verse means. And you take that time as an entire congregation, and then you have people coming to you with marital problems, and it is I mean, I think I've mentioned this before. I kind of tingred with it like you did as well.

Well, it's a huge responsibility, and I'm not sure if some pastors even realize it until they step through the door and start being a pastor. What are your thoughts on that? Well, and and and so so. One of the biggest things that that I believe that even a lot of people in the truth community may or may not believe, is that I don't even believe the term pastor is a biblical term. And I'm not saying when I say that, I mean as being called a pastor, pastor so and so

or or you know that sort of thing. And the reason why I say that is because everything in the Bible talks about having a ministry, talks about having men. Usually it's talking about men, but I think there could be women. I'm not saying that, and that's not I don't want to go down that sabit trail. But there's leaders in the church. And the way that the Bible puts it is it's a plurality. There's elders up. That's

right. And I and I see the term pastor. The pastor is in the Greek it's it's it means shepherd, right, and it's used I think like really one time, and what I think where you have this like, let me back up a little bit. I don't think there's anywhere in the

Bible. And you could show it to me if you can find it, but there's nowhere in the Bible where there's this you know, uh uh, somebody who has higher authority than you, where you have the clergy type and the lady there's nothing in the Bible that says that you'll have a man stand on a pulpit while everybody sits down in a congregation in a you know,

in these chairs and is quiet and not participating. First Corinthians, chapter fourteen talks about what we do whenever we get together, and Paul says very clearly that everybody brings things to the table. Everybody has brings a word, everybody brings, and that that would that would also uh uh, kind of assume that whenever you're talking about meeting together as the Saints, you're meeting together in

a family setting. If you if you look at what they talked about in the Bible, they went to house to house, right, and they would they would they would talk to people on a smaller level. And I think that's the way. I think that's the Biblical role is in model is is to have real relationships with people. You go into one of these bigger even even if it's one hundred and fifty people, you really have a hard time, you know, getting to know every single one of those persons and be

really accountable. I could tell you that every single solitary church system that I've been involved with has had sexual immorality, has had divorce rates that are high, has had uh, you know, just my wife whenever she was when we were going to a church in Ohio, the pastor wouldn't stop flirting with her. And she she's so she my wife is is pure and innocent, and and uh, she just didn't even pick up on it. And it

was his wife that ended up telling us about it. And what he was doing was he's spelling words like wow with Eminem's on her desk because she was she was doing the worship good grief, I mean, And that was just that, that was just one example. The next church that he went to, the guy, you know, he he divorced his wife and married the other one, and and and and and if you look at you know who who everybody's talking about right now, this Locke, he did the same thing.

And you know the church that I went to that I married, that I met my wife, and way back when I got saved, he did the same thing. He did the same thing. And and and the reason why is because from a biblical standpoint, and I can, I can. I don't know that we have time to go through every one of these. You can, you can look it up on our shows. But you know it talks about how you know, nobody has the pre eminence over anybody.

It's it's it's a family situation where you have people that are coming together as a family, being accountable to each other and meeting and in such a way that there's transparency, love, eating, fellowship, dining and and and then discussions, and you think about it. Jesus said this, He said, you know, uh to the church, because if you look, you look at all through what who who do? He came against all in the gospel messages. He came against the church, and those were the church. It's

it's it's nothing nothing new under the sun, right. He told them, you're putting your traditions over the word of God. You're putting your traditions over what the Lord knows or what you know the Lord says is true. And you're you're putting them up above all these things. You want to have the pre eminence, you want want to have the dominance. Well, Jesus said to the disciples, whenever they were sitting there arguing over each other, who's going to be the best, he says, don't be like those guys.

He said, you know, don't call any man rabbi. Rabbi means teacher. Teacher is is no different than you know, uh, what we would call somebody like myself today, don't call them master. One is your teacher. One is your master. That's Christ. So what we're what we are to do as as as elders people that are overseering, is we come together, iron to iron, sharpening each other, holding each other accountable, and having discussions and saying, okay, here's the word, let's discuss it.

Let's you know, I don't need to sit I can't. I can't do it hardly. I'll be honest. I can't sit in a in a in a pew very easily and just have one person have a monologue that I can't have a discussion with. That's not right. And I know I'm doing it to you now, so please forgive me. But it's just I'm just trying to help you understand what I'm not get And as you were talking and describing that, I was just picturing what an awesome service that would be where everybody

came together and broke bread. And tonight's topic is X and everybody. You let everybody include their thoughts because you're right. Listen. One of the first college classes I ever took was public speaking, and the biggest thing, the very first thing they teach you is that you have X amount of time to get people's attention. Otherwise they're gone, they're lost, they're gone. Yeah, And if you're just having a one way conversation for twenty thirty sometimes an

hour, you're more than likely to lose people. But if you include people, if you have a conversation, people are going to be more involved, They're going to be you know, there's just so much positive things that come out of a conversation versus a lecture. Right, that's right, that's right, and so like. But when you when you think about the institution. So I actually went back and I talked to one of one of these pastors.

I'm not gonna mention names, doesn't matter. And I and I looked at this guy and I told him, I said, look, you've got this million, million and a half dollar property here. You got people coming in there, and you're and you're hammering on them to give, give, give, because you're giving to the lord. And I said, you know, if I remember correctly, in the Book of Acts, it said they sold what they needed to sell in order to make sure everybody's needs were met.

So as answer me this question, why don't you sell that building? Take that money, put it into funds, and so every person that comes up, they can't pay their bill. You pay their bill. Oh we can't do that, Well why not we we won't have anywhere to meet? Yes you will. People have homes, people have buildings, people have outbuildings,

people have whatever. What what I sat down whenever I was a board member at a certain church, the overhead for that facility, and it was it was paid for the overhead, and this was in two thousand and four. The overhead was like thirty thousand dollars a month, and that paid for a secretary, that paid for the senior pastor salary, It paid for the youth pastor salary thirty thous and then you had the of course the electric gas and all this stuff. Thirty thousand dollars a month. If not, that

place was going in the going in the red. And then what did you have to do? You had to have a business model and have a have board meetings and do all this business that I do business now and in a maintenance fashion. But it's still in management, you do business, and that's all that was. In fact, the reason why I can do a lot of the business things that I do today is because I learned all those business

models while in the business church. And that's just the truth. That's where I got a lot of my experience was dealing with churches, because that's what it is. It's a corporate entity. And and but what I'm getting at though, is is I and I tried to explain this, and I'm trying to explain it to all your listeners as well. Who's to say that that institute has to have anything to do with it? Who's to say that that's

God's house? In fact, Jesus said when this is what I was trying to get out a minute ago, that he said, this temple will be brought down, destroyed, and how where we rebuild it in three days? So who's the temple? Where does Jesus reside? Where does his Holy spirit reside? Does it reside in that building in your heart? Or does it reside right here? That's right, so right now where two of the more gathered those I mean, we are having church. You cannot go to church.

That is a nonsensical statement. Church is where his believers are. That is church. And if you decide right now, like you and I, let's say, you know what, let's do this, John, Let's go over and let's run to the you know, the store and buy three turkeys and just go over to the poorest side of the neighborhood and give it to these people. Is that given to the Lord? Or is it giving this money to this building so they can have air conditioned and cushy seats. Yeah,

you see what I'm saying. Jesus said I'm going to destroy this town. He didn't want us to rebuild it, but we've done it anyway. That whole governmental system you think about, You think about what you know about the military. You think about what is the purpose of government. It's to

have order over you, law over you, government over you. Well, the reason why five oh one C three's are so prominent, and the reason why they promote the churches, even though they say they go after them, but they really don't, especially if they're these megachurch or even small churches trying to be a megachurch. The reason why they don't go after them, the

reason why they give them tax free stuff. They can go out and buy whatever they want tax free, and all this stuff is because they're subsidizing it. And the reason why they do that is because a church organization at institute is there as another form of government over the people, that suppresses the people.

You sit in your chair, you listen to what they have to say, you pay your hell insurance in their tithe and then you go out and you smile and you go to work and you're a good worker and you do your your slave. It's what you are, You're a slave, and they want that. That's that's that's the desire of the what I call the like you know, I Metallica, the master of puppets. That's what the master wants. And who is that master? And then you got to ask yourself

what is the roots of those institutional churches? Where is it starting? Where you have somebody And I was that guy, by the way, I have preached and taught off off of pulpits many many, many many times. And you know, so I'm just as guilty. So I'm not I'm not putting people down. I have to repent from those things. But you know, but what where does that come from? It doesn't come from the Bible. I can tell you that you could look for it. The only time in

the Bible I've ever seen anything where people gather is an evangelical movement. Where like Peter whenever he went out, he went out to the lost, and he spoke to all the masses and many thousands of people got saved. That's an evangelical movement. That's not the church. The church is the people that are the believers, right, So that's that. That's not this. So you think about it in those terms, it's like, wait a minute, where did it come from? Well, it comes from the Catholic Church.

I can tell you if you can go back through church history. You have the we know the Bible, you need to do what we tell you. And and all these church gods simaly God, you know, any any of the more of liturgical denominations, you know, Presbyterian, all those Lutheran. In fact, Martin Luther would probably lose his mind if you saw what the Lutheran Church is today, but it is he would. But but all that comes and it's it's it's systemic from the Catholic Church. And what is the

Catholic Church. Catholic Church is what former room, right, Roman Catholic Church didn't go away. It just reinvented itself, right, and this is true. And so that's that part. And I want to throw this out there. I know, I'm trying to shove a whole bunch of stuff because I don't know. I want you guys to hear this, because that's just my

heart, you know. So we say and and then we talked about, well, who's the one that's controlling Well, according to you know, the Book of Revelation, chapter seventeen, we talks about this mystery Babylon and they are They are the merchants. They are the ones that have all the money. They are the ones that the nations, you know, love because they drink of her fornication and her filthiness. Right, who is she? You

know? And I think you might know because you you It's really interesting And I really appreciate this because I've never even heard of this gentleman that you that you started playing on these classic audios and that's text, Mars. He's awesome.

Yeah, And I've never heard of him. And this, this is the honest truth until you until you introduced him to me, uh, you know, through your show, and I started listening to him, and I'm sitting here going this guy is doing, is saying exactly what I'm saying. And he said it way before I'm saying it. You know, So this guy was in the know way back in the day. And all it does is gives me confirmation that it's not just me that's that witness, right,

and others I've heard this type of thing. It's good to have a witness. But you know he talks about it too. But that mystery back home on we think about, we think about who did Christ come against? He came against a group of leaders. Who was those leaders? It was the Scribes, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Sanhedrin. Right, he called them what a pit of vipers? He said their father was who your father is? The father is Satan. He says that, He says, you're

your father is Satan? So what does that? What does that mean these people are? They're Satanists. That's right. People don't even think about it that way. If you get on a pulpit and you say that, people lose in their mind those those people that were the church were Satanists. Now Satanist it has you know, it's kind of like what you say about the left and the right, it comes from this two wings on the same bird.

Right, it's no different Satanists, his, the Freemasonry, you know, the other things like what's a good another good example, the Mormons or you know all you know, Uh, they're all kind of like feathers coming back into that same body Satan ultimately. But the one who has control at that time until now is the Babylonian Horne. I say, well, who is this? Well, the mystery Babylon, uh, you know was you know, they knew who it was because or I'm saying the original Babylon.

They knew who it was because they were they went into captivity and then they came back right. But after that there was this mysterious Babylon that was keeping them what in captivity, you know? And who was keeping in captivity? Well, Jesus tells us he called him the Synagogua of Satan in the Book of Revelation Revelations to who was that? That was the Zionist Jews. It was the ones that are still alive today. They and I I mean I see it, I see it in everything They've got their hands at all.

They are that mystery Babylon. They are you you you played that uh you said, I don't know about what's going on over you know, with Palestinians and and and those guys, and and I listened to texts and talking about these genealogies. How these people aren't even really descendants in Abraham. You know, that's awesome because it's true. It's so true. Those they're they're fake,

they're they're they're not the real people that that that. I went to Tennessee, uh on a business trip, and I walk in there and they got all these I support Israel, you know, and then they got I love Jesus and asked me for a free Bible. But it's Israel. It's programming. It's programming. And it's interesting. If I can inject something real quick is when you talk about the subject of of flat Earth, where you talk about the subject of Israel. Both of those things are so you're gonna

you're gonna get the same reaction if you bring them us. You know. It's very antim Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll get labeled very quickly flat as your nut job or you're an anti I and I get to speak for you. We don't get to talk this openly on YouTube, and I do that because I want to have exposure. We try to be incognito. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It's taboo, right, taboo subject. You're not allowed to talk about this stuff. But I'm not. I'm not a

racist. I don't. I think race was is a government of course, means to do this the right exactly. The term race isn't even used really in the Bible. It talks about tribes, you know, and and it within those tribes, it describes all sorts of people. As a matter of fact. If you look in the in the Old Testament, it talks about if somebody comes in and and starts adhering to the law, because that's what was required of the Jewish people at the time. The Israelites, they're part

of you. I mean, look at Rehab. Rahab was a prostitute and she became in the line of Jesus, and that's that tells you right there, Wait a minute, she wasn't she wasn't a blood, she wasn't like related to Abraham. Right. The the people that that what they don't get is that they're they're supporting a satanic culture, and that's that's not what Jesus is trying to describe, in fact, he's trying to help us come out

of that. Now, does that mean that there isn't true people out there that are truly trying to stay in the in the Torah, and and and not in not in the what is it the Talmud? And and and yeah, all all the the Satanic stuff that's involved, right, and even text was talking about there's there's a free Masonic temple there in in Israel. You know, that's where the that's where they all, that's where the real and that's that's what all this is. If you, I know, people say

it's the Catholic Church, and I'm not. I'm not gonna sit there and argue with them, and and they could. I think it's a part of it, no, no doubt. But I think at the at the core of it right now, I believe that it is the Zionist culture that you know, the Rothschild, that's that's there there there they have that Zionist Jewish descent. And it's again, it's not a race thing, please don't get

me wrong. It's a person thing. It's it's an elitist thing. Look at look at uh when you when you when you look at the what happened in the Bolshevik Revolution, Uh, you know Stalin his wife was was was that you know if you watch you watched that Europa of course, Yeah, yeah, that that that that was one of the biggest I that's when I

watched that whole documentary. At the end of it, I knew that that's who Mystery Babylon was and and and it's not like but I I think that even when you watch it, they try to sympathize, you know, Hitler in that. But I think Hitler was was was like Trump, he was an actor. I think he was out and honestly, I think as a whole, you know, I think you and I were lucky to survive, you know, the military industrial machine, because I think ultimately all we are

is blood sacrifice. Sure, what else? What else is there? You know, that's the same it's the same ruler. So if you read through Revelation seventeen and eighteen, I think, uh, I think it's seventeen, it's sixteen, seventeen, seventeen eighteen, the parenthetical uh description of Mystery Babylon, and you think about what it is. You know, it's her and she controls you look at whenever, so Jesus whenever he died? Who killed him? Was it the Romans or was it the Jewish people at the time

who killed him? Pasches pilot did what he washed his hands, He says, I'm not going to do this. You guys are doing this. So what did he do that that mystery? Babylon controlled Rome and told them to do their will. And then you go, you go, you skip fast forward to the first black Pope. And that's not a ethnic or anything. It's right. They called him. The black Black Pope is the guy behind

the scenes people believe is the most powerful guy in the Catholic Church. And the white the white Pope is the figurehead, right And so who is he though? Who was the first one? Do you remember his name? Yes? And it's slipping my mind, uh Le Lola or something like that. It's just there you go and and and you know what he was. He was a Zionist Jew. He came up, he came in and what is he doing. He's doing no different than what they did at the time of

Christ. He's manipulating Rome to do his will. And now he runs it. And that's where all the Jesuit order. All that stuff comes from that all comes from that same thing that is Mystery Babylon, and she will be destroyed one day. Uh. I know a lot of people say the scarlet, the scarlet, and and the blue and the colors, but you can, I'm telling you can. You can get colors from anywhere. And and again I'm not saying that the Catholic Church isn't a part of that. They

are. They they sport the colors too, because they're part of the same gang. But you can go into uh. I have pictures. I can't really do it on here, but maybe when if you want to come into our show, I can show you all this stuff. You know where where these these uh synagogues that are in the United States and and and abroad have those colors everywhere and some of their uh the their main priests, where are those colors too? So, I mean it's it's not uncommon to find that

as well. Again, I just I just see, that's what it is. That's why you have people like uh coming out what what's that rapper's name that uh I supposed to be rich and he got he came out against Adidas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what is it, Kanye West? Kanye West, and what do you say? It was the Jews? Remember he said that, Yeah, he said that they were controlled at all. Well, he was just he's he's trying to like maybe, you know, you know, do this with his chest and say I got the money,

now I could do whatever I want. And they quickly reeled him in. Yeah he did. They put him in place really quick. That's right. And again again, don't get me wrong, it's it's not it's not a culture thing. It's it's a elitist, Zionist, Satanist group of people that control. It's the Rothschilds that they're a part of that. They are the mystery Babylon in my opinion. And and I could just see it. It's everywhere, and Dawn, I mean, I'm like, it's so true.

And whenever you think about how how they're going to be destroyed, because when she gets destroyed, because the Antichrist is going to have to come in right, and he's gonna have to have rule. They're setting if they uh, you know, erect a temple there somewhere in Israel. They're setting him

up to come. That's their master, that's their fact. And he's gonna kill them, you know, and that's what's gonna happen, because that's what does happen according to the Bible. He's gonna he's gonna destroy and and and that great city which is Jerusalem will fall. Even text Mars he confirmed that he's like he said the same thing. I'm like, Oh my goodness, no, wonder that dude is not. I mean, they suppress him because I don't know how I missed him. But anyway, Yeah, he was

a great guy. He was out of Austin, Texas too. By the way, the Black Pope, also known as the Superior General of the Society of Jesus aka Jesuit something interesting. I don't think I realized before he took office April nineteenth, fifteen forty one. So this title has been around for five hundred, almost five hundred years. But April nineteenth is the Feast of Molock. You look at Waco, you look at Oklahoma City. These type

of events happened on April nineteenth. Wow, that's that's really interesting. I didn't Maybe coincidence, I don't know, coincidence. Jar, there we go. Did I hear you say earlier? Hell insurance? Is that what tything I did. Sorry, I've never heard that before. It it's true. I mean, that's what a lot of people are. That's what they're. You can't have a converse, you can't have a converse state. The hardest people George I have talking to is it's it's just the way it is.

It's like Paul. Paul came out of the Pharisee system. I came out of the Christian the quote unquote Christian system, and I realized, and God can use it. I'm not saying there's it's not like you they're they're Everything that's coming out of those those organizations is necessarily wrong. It's not necessarily but it's it's more of a show. It's not it's not there's not reality in

there. There's definitely not any real content, and there's fake relationship. And there may be some good relationships within congregets that get to know each other over time. But you know, if if I walk into church, you know, it may take me four or five years before they actually accept me as being one of them. You know what I mean, It's just the way it is. I mean, I've experienced that, and I'm like, well, I don't need I don't need any part of that, you know,

I just I've given up on that entirely. That's why that I know you asked Nick and the things I listened to. The thing he says one of your video and we don't have a lot of peop on our on our YouTube, and that's okay. I don't care if there's one. It's it's for the it's for the glory of God. I think if if if the Lord had to die and it was just for me, he'd still do it. If it was just you, he'd still do it. So that's that's got to be the mentality. But you know, it's it's the that's what draws

people away from the truth of God. And and what draws them away is not hearing the truth. And if you if you actually go out there and be with these people, bring them in, break bread with them, show them the word. Eventually, you know, every person that I eventually talked to, I I show them, you know, creation, cosmology, that's just a part of it. I want them to see the whole thing. And if they can take in that, that that flat earth whatever you want

to I hate that term because it just has such negative connotations. To it. But it's it's true creation is what I like to call it. If you can get them to see it, man that that that's a catalyst for everything else. And then you really that you're just you're you look and you walk and you see and you realize that you're you're a slave in a system, and the only escape that you have is the freedom that Christ gives you. That's the only escape. The only freedom you have is through Christ.

Knowing that He's with you, Knowing that whatever comes your way, He's going to be with you. He's going to have you in his hand. You are going to go underhitneath his wings of an eagle, knowing that even if

they kill me, he still has me. You know that that whole thing, knowing that if we walk into the end times as I am not a preacher of guy, by the way, I'm totally poster because that's just really what I can have that argument, but you know, preparing people for that, you know, making sure they understand that, you know, if that time, if God's timing is now, because nobody really knows when, right it could be tomorrow, that the that the Antichrist destroys the The Babylonian horror

in here that we're talking about. Or it could be ten years from now, it could be fifty years from now. I can be gone right because I'm not gonna lift fifty more years. I doubt it. But you know, regardless, my job is to do what Jesus told to Peter when he said, Peter, do you love me? And he said yes, Lord, feed my sheep. And then he said it again and again, and on the third time he really Peter realized that he had messed up so bad, which I have to, which you have to anybody who we just all

have, we come to that understanding. That's my job. That's all of our jobs. We all have that ministry of reconciliation to feed God's sheet. That's us, that's you, that's me, it's all of us. We need to be together. We need to be together as believers standing up against the lies that come our way. Minds me of that Conway Twitter song. Right, that's my job, that's right, Conway Twitty. See, I can tell you you're I think you're maybe a couple of years older than I

am, but we're pretty close. I got to help you, fifty one. I have one more question than I do did you call it true creation? Yes, yeah, well we'll get into that. But I do have one way if you can surmise us in a couple of minutes. But sure, because this topic has come up several times but it's kind of been glossed over. In a couple of minutes, could you kind of explain to the audience your thought on the gap theory? And I hope I'm not putting you

on the spot. No, no, I love it. I just you know, when you think about that and you think about and actually i'll give credit recreds to Dean was the one that taught on this, and he does a great job. It's one of his older sermons from quite a while back. But uh, and there's other people that's you know, discussed it. But you know, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth right and the and the earth was without form and void, those two words

in the Hebrew. And I'm probably gonna wreck the name. I'm not a I'm not on a perfectionist and all this it's like a boho a and a toe. Who I think I can look it up, but I usually get my notes in front of me, and I don't have them, so I'm doing this awful memory. So I apologize. But basically, what those words mean in a nutshell is destroyed, chaotic, desolate, waste. Uh, you know, basically not formless, Uh, destroyed, not the way God

created the earth. Right. Whenever God says when he made the earth, he made it it to be perfect and inhabitable, right, it's not. God does not create chaos. He creates perfection. And so okay, we think about that. Okay, God created. That's a statement right there. It says God created the Heaven's in here, and I'm trying to I'm trying to go through this quick. I'm trying to respect what you said, so that in that statement you know that that's there. And then he says,

water was up on the face of the deep. Okay, wait a minute, cut, cut cut the lights off? Where when was When was the world created? He says, it's there and there's water everywhere, and it was and it's chaotic and destroyed. What does that mean? I believe the Lord is telling us very clearly that the earth was flooded. Water was upon the face of the deep so much so that he could put a great, big ferma. We know what the firmament is right as as creation come.

That's huge, right. It took them all day to build this thing. And it's separating waters from water. So how much water was on the face of the earth. Unimaginable amounts of water, right, right, So and it was destroyed. So what does that mean? I believe Noah's flood was the second flood. That's why people were so respectful of Like if you read Whenever, David says, and the waters that be above the fermament, because

he's telling you that firment is what's keeping us from being destroyed. So we say in the Psalms, we say, you know, you know, in the power of his firmament, it's it's it's exactly what weren't bon Braun put in? Was it so? Nineteen on his headstone? Uh, it's it's that same principle. So so so all that's to say is I believe the earth was destroyed? And so where what what was the world before that?

Well, if you look when did Satan fall? When did and in the fall is is is a is a The term is kind of hard to understand in a sense, but it's not. The fall means he separated and he died. It's no different than you know, he didn't he didn't have the opportunity for salvation because he wasn't human. He decided that he was going to leave God and he was eternally damned at that point. That is the fall of Satan and he and all the one third of the angels. And I

think that's where the thirty three comes from. It's it's one third of third of the age, right, I think that's the original one. And you're an amazing numbers guy. I am not. I'll tell you right now. I like to listen to it. I learned every time you talk about it. But next to that way too, I don't. I don't know a whole lot about that. But at any point, at any rate, uh, when that happened, you know, it had to be before Adam and Eves story, right, because who was in the garden, say a serpent?

Yeah? Yeah? So when did he fall? Did he fall when he was building the fermament? Did he fall? You know, whenever he's making the sun, moon and stars? No, he was there before there there there's there's there's actually uh discussion points to see if I can find it real quick in my notes, But I think it's in Jeremiah that talks about

that. Don't don't quote me on that. Uh, it talks about uh, that same term when the earth was without form and void and there was no man and everything was dark and you know, and then it talked about in that in that in that verse about Satan and it talked about, you know, how his kingdom was destroyed and when did that happen. Well, I'm of the opinion that that was before mankind was on this earth. I

think Satan was here on this earth before man was ever here. I think Genesis a man was or Genesis, the book of Genesis after Genesis one one is the genesis of mankind, and he created a way for man to survive in the way that he was going to create us at the time. From that point forward, I think Satan ruled the earth before. We don't know how. A lot of people say, you know, we don't know how old the earth. We don't know how the actual earth is. We don't

know if time was a part of it or not. Because they're finding like you know, you could find like pyramids in the oceans, you know they have that. You can look it up. You can find them well, where did those pyramids come from? You know, where did the great pyramids in Egypt come from? I think those were there prior to Genesis of Man. I think they've been there. As a matter of fact, I think

it's highly Now this is just John's thinking and others. I've heard other people say this as well, that those may have been the original temples of the Lord, and then they got they got taken over by Satan at the Fall of Satan and used for their own devices. That's why they used the pyramids, That's why they have the triangle, That's why you know they they take they're count of Satan's counterfeiter, right. He takes what it's God's and he makes it his. But he does it in his own twisted, evil,

wicked way. He doesn't produce anything. He takes what's created and distorts it, right, right, And so I think that a lot of that. I think even a lot of these megalists that you see, I think a lot of those things came from a time, from way before before us. And I think that that's what that's from. I think when we came into the picture, God created the ferment, drive the lands, you know,

help things grow up the way they need to be. You know, you hear a lot of these talking about the tartarians and you know, silicone trees and all that kind of stuff. I think my personal opinion about that too, is is that that was during the time before man was was even created. Really so, I think that some of these things over six thousand years old, huh well over, yeah, I think they're well. And I don't know. I mean, again, I'm not God, so I can't

say for sure. But but but and and when He created time in and of itself, but the physical place was here, I believe that. And I can go into that. I haven't I haven't done so, but I can go into it. But I believe that a lot of those things were here before and and what the earth looked like before I have no idea.

And what the what those angels did and their followers did before it may have been a great big mining thing, the the what do you call it, the Grand Canyon could have been a mind who knows, I mean, who knows what they did during those times? I don't know. The Bible doesn't say right, so it could be. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna undermine what they're saying. But I basically what all I tried to do is say the Bible is the standard by which I bounce things off of, and say,

does it align with the word of God. Does it go against the word of God, then it could be true. If it doesn't, then it's definitely not true. If it does, I mean, that's just the fact, because I mean because when you look at creation today and you look and you know, and you say, just like Neil degrast Tyson says all the stars will come to the earth in the Book of Revelations, it's also talked about Matthew by Jesus. And you know, either those things are true

or they're not true. Well, they're true because they are small points to light and they will come to the earth, and the earth won't be destroyed, it won't be consumed. Right, it's the same thing. Well done. Thank you for laying that out. It's very interesting. And by the way, to the listeners, if you have a take on the gap theory, send me an email, or you can go to the website and click on that speak pipe message and you can leave up to like a five minute

message. That's very interesting. And I did go back and listen to Pastor Odels. He does a great job on his Website's awesome. There's a lot of great information on there. Yes, before I ask you we start getting into flutter Earth, et cetera. King James seventeen five. I don't know how many verses in the Bible are all caps, but it says, and upon her forehead was a name written, and then in all caps, Mystery Babylon the Great, the mother of all Harlots and abominations of the Earth.

Is there a reason why this isn't all caps? And is that something that's prevalent in the Bible, or is this one of the few verses that are in all caps? You know, I don't know that I could comment to that, Honestly, I haven't really looked at it that great. It does say it. I'm looking at it right now. Upon her forehead was written

Mystery Babylon the Great, the mother of Harlot's ebominations. Here, I think that they're saying that because there's there's definitely exclamation in that, and maybe that's just what Maybe it was written that way in the original on the and on the original paper's paper. I think that's how you say it but I'm telling you, man, whenever when people realize what it is, I mean, they own, like I said, they own every every single solitary media corporation

out there, z owed by, you know. And so it's almost like when happens, it's like everybody's just gonna be like you were you. It's like the flat Earth, you know, whenever, whenever he because it says in Revelation that the heaven will will be un like a scroll rolling away, and then it says that there's gonna be you know, massive hailstones the size of talents or whatever. So I believe that Dean's right. I think it's very possible anyway, that that's the ferment breaking up and every eye will see

him. You know, it's gonna be. It's kind of like that. It's like the aha moment, like oh, because it says the nations, well, I can look right up here at the where the Norse started.

I'm pointing towards the north uh polaris where and and he if that's where he decides to rip open the ferment, every single as I'll see him, and it's gonna be in like capital letters there he is, and the nations as well but you and I if if we love the Lord and he's in our hearts and we're bloody bought, born again Christians, that that that are just on fire for the Lord. And that's that's what Revelation chapter three talks about in the Church of Lato Sea, not to be lukewarm, but to be

scalding hot. That were that we're uh hot is is if you look at it in the in the Greek it talks about how it's uh not just you know, sort of hot, it's scalding hot, like if you put your hand into boiling water. That's what Christians are supposed to be. But I should I hate the word. I almost hate the word Christians. It's believers and followers of Christ. You have to be scalding hot and out there just like just like my buddy Nick here, he's he's crazy, on fire for

life. Sometimes he gets nuts, so but he's he's he loves the Lord, you know, and and and and and that's what I love about him. And by the way, Creation is the reason why he's he's here with us because he saw the live of Creations. And I know you know that, but from others that's that's that's his story. But uh, anyway, it's gonna be this great aha moment and then it's it's gonna be like that here the mystery Babylon. Everybody's gonna say, oh, oh, it was

them, We supported them. The United States of America is their proxy machine. We are owned by them. We do their bidding. What happened whenever they decided to do all this garbage over in Palestine. Who's there right now? Who's who's got the big battleships there? It's us? Of course, yeah, of course exactly because we are owned by them. We belong to have always belonged to them. It's the whole purpose of it. And and and the thing to really wrap your mind around that whole thing is is it's

God's ultimately his He's He's predicted it's going to happen. I mean, it's all through the it's all through the Bible, so it's his timeline. And and so what we have to do as believers and and and I'm not again, I'm not against like what the things you're talking about, like like trying to be active in the community and do the right things and try and save your you know, kids from being uh uh what do you call it drafting? And he said you can get on those boards and stuff like that.

I think that's great. I think you need to do all those things. If that's what the Lord plays it in your heart. I think it's the way you should do things. But ultimately we're on God's timeline and and and ultimately the only true security that we have and all of this is Christ. And so ultimately our job is to what share Christ with the nations. That's the point of this. That's the point of in my opinion, that's that's

the point of flat Earth. That's the point of it all. I think it's it's you know, and that whole that whole scenario in Tennessee with uh Greg Locke and all that that that that is another example of people are going to start waking up more and more. And yeah, if you look at the comments all around the internet that once again I thought, anyway I have it woke a lot more people up than I think that's what they expect.

Yes, I knew it was going to Yeah, and I knew And I don't know the I don't know the like, I really don't know the like the intents of certain people why they do what they do right. But you know, God does things whether we want him to do it or not. He uses things for for good, for those are you know. I looked on you know, all the comments on throughout social media, and it woke

a lot of people up. It was yes, really well and it's going to continue to do that because it's out there and it will never go away, and that never never go away, never go indeed. And that leads me to my next question. Is you know I think it's the Book of Daniel you mentioned earlier. We are witnessing a bit of a great awakening.

Yes, and I think it really started. I get emails every day, dozens of emails every day, and people share their stories, and the most common story that I get is people got woken up during COVID and that if it wasn't for that a lot of people wouldn't have found flat Earth. Do you see that this great awakening is part of the timeline where we're at in the Bible. Yes, yes, And I think you know, you know, for I think what people see is those who stand up against it.

I'm sure I can I guarantee you you were one of those guys that were standing up against it right, of course, getting rid of the vacs. We don't want to deal with that, you know, not wearing the masks and all that kind of stuff. Mask is is one later away from the mark. You know. It's just a form of of uh, you know, a testing of the waters for the mark, for what it's worth.

And that's what I believed it was. Yeah, it's it's just a test and and and so you have those who stand up against that, that becomes a catalyst again, like you just said, for people to wake up and see, wait a minute. For me, it's like when we move. We moved from Colorado because that that's the great communist state of Colorado. I grew up there, but now it's it's the communist state of Colorado. It really is. And I had I couldn't get out of quick. And no

it's my it's my whole place. I love it, but I can't be there anymore. We went, we came to Missouri and it's it's great. Great people here are very it really is where we're at, especially this area. You know, it's it's highly you know, reserved. People don't want to get in your business. There's not a single ordnance in the county in which I live and reside. You know, it's wonderful. I love it here. You know, we do a lot of the we do the homesting.

I got cattle, I got chickens. Like you, We're not the best at it, but were we learn every day. Right, All right, everybody, thanks for your patience. We had a little bit of a technical difficulty, but we're back running. We've got about fifteen minutes left, and I'm going to toss it back to John for kind of his closing thoughts and what's most forefront in his heart. Go ahead, John, Well, one of the things that I want to encourage people, especially, you know,

people that belong to Christ. But I'm not saying that, you know those that do not. Hey, lot, you know, our lives are supposed to be a reflection of who Christ is. And you know, we'll we'll we'll be with you as well. But for those that are in this type of understanding and and and belief system that we realize that all this is going on, I think one of the biggest tools in our toolkit is coming

together, you know. Uh, And even if you don't believe everything that I say, or even if you don't believe everything that George says or eventhing. You know, ultimately we have a lot in common and and hopefully it's Christ at the center of it. Right. But but the only way that we're gonna really make change is by coming together. You know, the Bible talks about how you know, they will know Jesus said this, right, they will know that you belong to me for the love that you have for

one another. And you know who's going to see that. You know who needs to see that? Honestly, it's the church system. People. They need to see this. They need to see that it's real, because that's what's gonna wake them up and snap them out of that that just mental fog that they're in. And then on the flip side of that, have that same type of of interaction with folks you know that are lost, that they can see that you're engaging with them, that you're trying to help them.

You know. One of the ways that I one of the ways that I try to reach out to people is I don't just Nick's crazy. I'm hey, Nick, I'm a flat after flat Earth and all this. That's not usually what I do, but it's okay. I mean, everybody's different but one of the one of the one of the things that I try to do is to go in there and meet the person, earn their respect, show them who I am, and then over time, as the Lord gives me, you know, those words, that you just start showing the truth in

those people's lives. I think that's so important. And then and then to actually get into the world that awakening truth. One of our biggest core foundational beliefs is for you to read God's Word every day in some form or fashion so you can be on one. Peter three to fifteen says that you should always be prepared for the hope that's in you. And that's that big apologetics

thing, right. I used to take apologics courses in my previous you know, pastoral type roles, and I still believe in that because God's Word says that we need to give an answer for the hope that's in us. And the way you do that is by making sure you believe what you believe. You know, I deal with people a lot. I deal with people every day in a business manner, and you know, over time they ask me, why why are you different? Why are you this way or that way?

Because I could see it in your life and then so that's what we're supposed to do. That's what Christ says. He says, he says that he will draw all men under him, and he uses that through people. He said, he said to Peter, what was Peter? Was Peter this you know, four year degree, eight year degree, you know, doctorate in theological studies. No, Peter was a fisherman, right, yeah, that's what he was. You can be used, you know, God says. Whenever Jesus went to Peter, he said, you know, go over

here and take all these Bible study courses and do all these things. Then you can follow me. Is that what he said, George, No, he said follow me, follow me, and I will make you fish or some men, because that's what we do. I deal with some people people all the time. They they may have a hard time getting rid of the you know, the the mouth or whatever, but that doesn't matter because God knows their heart. I'm not their judge. I'm not you know, I

don't. What we are to do is to go out and be the life. We're to show them God's word. And that goes into what I wanted to talk say. And this is a good ending. I want to show them who God is in his word. You know, I'm not being your judge whenever I say, hey, look at what it says right here in the Bible. It says those who commit adultery will not enter in the Kingdom of Heaven. That's not John saying anything. I'm acting in the function of a pastor, but as a shepherd, I'm not doing it. All I'm

doing is showing you what the true shepherd is saying. So that's our job. Our job is to go out there and show people what the real pastor says. Because I don't want you to call me pastor. I want you to call me brother. That's what Paul says, brethren of love, which I am a co brother. I am your brother. This is my brother at arms. He is the one that I'm going to look out for. He needs to look out for me. And we do so by using this tool call God's word, and that word is what's going to give us the

truth, and it's the truth that sets us free. Amen. And you really I'm glad you made that point because I guess two or three months ago, I consider doing prison ministries, and I reached out to the state and you have to provide them basically, at least here in this state, and I know it veries state to state, but you have to have a master's

degree to even be considered. So once again, it's all part of the system, right, you have to go get your indoctrination before they allow you to which again goes against exactly what you just described for the last five minutes. Correct. I mean that means that they would have kicked Peter out right, Yeah, exactly, You're just efficient. I mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah, it's the lord who anoints, It's the Lord who provides for those he calls his people are his people. It has nothing to do with the

system. It has to do with having a willing heart and be willing to be used as a vessel in his hands. And will we stumble along the way? Absolutely well, I have issues with my life one hundred percent, and you know what, I'll be the first to admit it. You know, that's that's how that's how you develop relationships. You say, man, I need your help. I mean, you could be you could be George if if you were like hanging out with me and you've seen my eyes wandering

in the wrong direction. And you kind of bump me a little bit, you know, and say, hey, get your eyes right. And this is just an example you're being. You're acting in the role as a shepherd and your brother just like your brother would do if he sees you doing something wrong, you say, hey, bro, what what are you doing? Yeah, that's what that's what elders and bishops what they call bishops, that's

what that's what they are. And that's always a again, it's always a pluristic term meaning there's many of us together, those that has bend in God's word to take in what people are telling you and then showing them God's word and then as they grow, because that's what it's. The great commission isn't to go out and and and create all these buildings. The great the great

commission is to go out and make disciples. Right, to make a disciple means you've got to spend time, effort, blood, sweat and tears with these people and you'll be very you'll be doing well if you have four or five in a year. Really, because it takes that much effort to make a disciple, it really does, and you could do That's why we do this, you know, we use the technology because we try to, you know, provide that information for others so they can do the same things in

their groups. I don't want them to come all to my house, although they can. It's not it's not that I don't love them, but they the way that things change is at a small level. But if you look at them all from that, you know, one hundred and twenty thousand foot

view, where everything's still flat, right. They they that was a joke, by the way, I'm terrible at it, but you can see all of it and then all of a sudden they're in harmony, right, And that's what that's what this is about, is bringing forward the Kingdom of Heaven and that that's that's why, that's why I'm here today. That's why I do what I do and and and that's just that's the calling of the Lord on my heart. That's really well done. And you were presented your thoughts

really well today. And I'm going to put you on the spot one more time because I always say I was always told actually, both in school and in the military, they tell you that December and January are the most stressful times of years for people. The sun goes down earlier a lot, not much sunlight. People are stressed out, people are sick. Can Can I ask you to close with a word or prayer for everyone? Absolutely? Absolutely,

Lord, We thank you God for for you, Lord God. We asked today, in this evening and in the future, when people hear this, Lord, that your word would come alive in people, that they would use you, Lord as their source of truth rather than men. That the that the leaders within the organizations would humble themselves Lord and submit to your word

in its entirety. Lord, that they would not put any of that filthy lucre or any constraints on your word, as you've declared, Lord God, we asked today that you would anoint the lips and the minds and the hearts of all that proclaim your truth and the world today and Lord, let your kingdom come on earth. Lord, that you would like your word says, Lord, the truth is what's going to set us free. And the way

that that happens, Lord, we know because your word says it. It says that where the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is, Lord, there is true freedom. And when we declare truth, Lord, we're declaring it because your Holy Spirit declares it in our heart and in our minds and everything that we are. Lord, and we're able to do that because you live in us. Lord, forgive us, God, of all of our sins today. Forgive us of all the things that we've done wrong, because Lord,

we know we've done wrong. In fact, your word even says that. Lord, it says those that say they're without sin, there's no truth in them. So Lord, I want to declare today to you, Lord, that I want to be your servant. I want you to forgive me for all the things that I've done wrong. And I ask God, the others that listen to this will forgive You would forgive them of the things that they've done wrong, but they would have the courage to admit those things, Lord,

to humble themselves to see the truth. Lord, I pray God that there's a revival of true awakening in this country. Lord, that your word would be just on fire and that people would see the truth. And I asked this in Jesus's mighty name. I pray Amen, Amen, thank you so much for that. I greatly appreciate it. And that is John from the Awakening Truth Podcast YouTube channel. And we will also if you want to reach out to them, we'll have his Facebook page link in the show notes

as well. So thank you, Bess much. Yeah, thank you again. It was really great to meet you. Appreciate everything. Yeah, and we're gonna invite you to our podcast one day. If you're willing, absolutely hit me up and I'll definitely join you guys, I'd love to. So there you go, folks, Lord Willing and the creek don't rise. I will see you Sunday night at eight pm Eastern Time with another great guest for

John. I'm George. God bless you all. Keep your head on a swivel, and until the next time we meet, my friends, we will see it. I know it's been a struggle. I don't know if you've had spain, feeling tie tell down all the way. Yeah, I know you feeling you smile and the same from you feel like you've lost your way. Don't give up. No, don't give it and never is home. Don't let call the primise. It ain't done yet. He's gone up, glad, Why it's a way got up? May come? Why wait?

God up, mcle I can see the street beside you, child's are putting up five. Oh, you're stronger than a thing. You are. Yeah, you're gonna be all right. You're accepting a dead found you beautiful? You're shot in ride. Yeah, you're listening, breathing, move you can hold your head a pie. Don't give up, No, don't give in, never loss home? Don't they gone on the Primies? It ain't Donion's God or Clay? Why some Waytel, the God of Mabe come, don't give up? No, don't give in? You never love home? Don't

let go on the Primies? It ain't gon likeness worth live in? What's a way town? The God up baby? Colt? Why surprase down? Got up? Steamy Colt? Oh? Yes, what surprase down? The God up Staby Colt? Oh yeah, got Eve? Don't give up, No, don't give in, never lose hol don't they go of the primis? I in and done? Yeah's God up playing waits and kind of eve cos don't give up? No dog giving, but never hold. Don't let go of the crimes. It ain't done. Other's worth living in? What's

died? The God of every cos? Oh, the God of needs? Whys God? You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network, Just the facts, Mammy