[00:00:27] Jay: Hey everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today. I am lucky enough to be joined by a wolf, Chaz Wolfe. What's up, brother.
[00:00:37] Chaz: the wolf,
[00:00:38] Jay: The wolf, the wolf. You should just go by the wolf. I love that. CEO and founder of Gathering the Kings has Gathering the Kings podcast, has a million different things going on, you know, father of four, just an all around awesome guy.
Chaz, I really appreciate some of your time today, brother. Thanks for being on.
[00:00:52] Chaz: It's a pleasure to be here. An honor actually, had such a great time with you before. how could I have not, returned the favor?
[00:00:59] Jay: Yeah, you know, I think we got a good thing going here. Let's keep it going. so look, there's a million things online. You obviously have a great online persona. People could just go online and find the boilerplate information of who Chaz is. I think you even have a video that says who is Chaz.
[00:01:16] Chaz: That's right.
[00:01:17] Jay: so, you know, there's no question who you are. So I'm gonna come at this from a little bit of a different angle. I'm gonna kind of dig in a little bit how you got started. and then we'll kind of meander a little bit through how you built this personal brand that you've got and some of the other kind of cool things you got going on.
So,
where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur?
[00:01:35] Chaz: You know, that's an interesting, deal. I grew up Columbia, Missouri. I live in Kansas city now, just a couple hours away. And so did that have any impact? yes, but I would say the reason it wasn't necessarily the location. It would be because I grew up single mom family. And so, I didn't meet my dad till I was 24.
He didn't even know I existed, which is a whole interesting podcast, but, grew up single mom family. And so, You know, she worked two or three jobs, my whole life and grit and stick to itiveness and freaking commitment. I just did some reels, with my team. This is past month or so talking about just the things I learned working concrete at 14 when all my friends went to the pool, you know, but that's yeah.
So did that turn me into who I am? Yeah, I'm a freaking winner is what it is. And, Now, knowing my dad, he's got multiple businesses. So I think I had a little bit of that in the DNA, but also then the environment of which I grew up in was obviously just like, Hey, if you want anything out of life, you're going to have to just reach in and grab it.
[00:02:29] Jay: Yeah, I love The old nature versus nurture,
argument or conversation is a wild, you know, ride, but it sounds like you got a bit of both.
[00:02:36] Chaz: you can flip it upside on his head. I think my dad, he's a veterinarian and a farmer and a cattle rancher. and, I think he would have said medically that. He's like, but after
[00:02:48] Jay: Mm hmm.
[00:02:48] Chaz: it's gotta be the opposite. He just was shocked, you know, like, oh my goodness.
[00:02:54] Jay: There's got to be something to the, you know, it definitely is a big part of the makeup of who we are, right? This is where we came from. So,
again, you are a master at the personal branding. You have developed and curated a very masculine, very leadership oriented, very kind of high level personal brand.
Now, I'm not going to ask how you did that. But what I am going to ask is a two part question. How would you tell somebody who's just starting out younger in their career? how do they build a personal brand? And the second question is that any different from somebody who's had a career, go to start their business in their thirties or forties, they've got some experience doing some stuff.
is there any difference in building a personal brand between those two?
[00:03:45] Chaz: Yeah, there is. and so for the, you know, the 20 year old who's listening and it's like, how do I build a personal brand? I mean, they could go online and they should, I mean, everybody should be online if that's what we're talking about, personal brand, but my first answer to that actually Jay is going to be. And so I think that what that looks like is integrity, doing the things that you say you're going to do, you know, even as a 20 year old, I remember, winning, like I wanted to be the best at my position. in fact, 20 years old, I was working for state farm insurance. I was not college educated. I could not become a claim rep. I had to be a claim processor. And then that was it. I had to be there for three years in order to move up because I didn't have a college education. If I'd had the degree, I could have just moved up, but like, A couple months in, I'm the fastest processing claim processor. And I'm asking, Hey, can I get the rep books?
I want to study. And they're like,no, you can't. I know, but I want to read the books. So that way when I am like, I want to go, like, let's go. And so I think that spirit of excellence doing what you say you're going to do, doing things at a, just a high clip, is what the personal brand starts as, because that you're just developing you, your identity of. So that translates online. So yeah, when you're 30, 40, 50, starting a business, or maybe you're in the corporate arena, this is not, unheard of for someone who doesn't even own their own business, but they're, you know, an executive of sorts to want to have an established brand. They can be a thought leader in their space. What does that look like? Well, it's a continuation of what I just talked about what, who you are in the office or what you are in your business, how a customer interacts with you, right? What do they see? Or do they see good communication? Do they see you doing what you say you're going to do? Like, what does that look like?
Are you funny? Are you serious? Are you intense? Are you like, what is it? I don't know. And so those things have to kind of be figured out, but you can figure those out things, you know, along the way when you're working in the business. Young or old, for the ones that have experience to kind of maybe pinpoint on your older folks, they just have experience.
And so they're going to have stories to tell. They're going to have pieces to be able to pull from that they can share with others, whether it be on a podcast or they have their own podcast, or they can, you know, shoot a video. I've got a client of mine. she runs a 5 million, moving company. She had no personal brand. doesn't do any coaching, doesn't sell any online services. She just started doing one Instagram reel a day, like, I dunno, 15 months or so ago. And she has not missed just that one reel every single day. And she's got 25 or 30,000 followers on Instagram now, and she's considered a thought leader. She wants to do a TED talk. it's not like she's trying to become an influencer or a, you know, a someone that sells courses and stuff. It's same thing that we just got done talking about. She did that consistently, just doing the things that she's normally doing in her business. She just happened to be projecting it online.
Just expressing the stories that she has this immense experience in.
[00:06:37] Jay: The great point, and you see a lot of people on LinkedIn and elsewhere kind of struggle with identifying what to be a thought leader in, right? And so this woman, just to use that example, was, you know, CEO of a moving company. How did she become a thought leader? Or what did she become a thought leader in, you know, because that's kind of important, right?
Because it's very easy to just go, well, I'm going to, I learned how to, you know, do outbound email. So I'm going to go, write some blog and write some LinkedIn posts about it. And like, nobody, you know, it's good. You hear crickets, right? Because nobody gives a shit if you're just like some guy who runs a business and you just write some stuff up about something you did that day, right?
You're not becoming a thought leader and you're competing against. People that's all they do is, you know, using that example, an outbound email marketer is going to have a hundred thousand likes and comments and follows and their stuff, because they know what they're talking about and they're respected in that way.
How do people kind of identify what they can be thought leaders in and how do they kind of push that message out so people will listen?
[00:07:38] Chaz: Yeah. So I think there's a couple of questions that you're asking how to identify it. Well, I mean, the easiest way is just to look at what are you good at. that doesn't necessarily have to be the end all be all, but it's the easiest place to start because it flows out of you. So I'll give you an example.
I've been in sales, building sales teams, you know, for 20 years and I'm only 36, like literally. So sales is in my blood, from retail sales to phone sales, to in person sales. I've done it all and I've done it all very well. And I've built teams even for big names like Grant Cardone. So it's like. It made sense when I started building my online. Profile that I was talking about sales. Now, do I want to be the next Grant Cardone? No, I don't actually want to help people specifically with sales. That's not just my only area of genius. It just is the one that I can talk about for hours and hours and hours.
And I know I'm right. I know the formula and I can help anybody with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back. So it's just easy and it flows out now. That's not the brand or the identity necessarily that I'm trying to portray over the course of the long haul. So you can just get started as my point, find the thing that you're passionate about, or in this case, I'm not necessarily passionate per se.
I just know it really well. I know that I'm an expert. Okay, great. I can give in this area. That's what makes me a thought leader is that I can give valuable things in exchange for your attention. That's what it is. Okay. So over the course of time though, you can start developing, you know, an identity to your brand and that's above maybe practically the skillset that you're referring to.
And so I'm going to,I'll give the brand and then I'll come back down. So up above, you've got maybe like brand identity or lanes, and that might be more so associated to. I wanna win or I wanna help people win just more generic, a little bit more of like, what is my identity? So I know I'm a builder. I do things with excellence. I'm a pretty intense individual, but once you get to know me. I can be a little bit funny and we like to go do fun things, but it's got to be like a really intense, fun thing. Like I just told you before we hit the record button that I'm going, whitewater rafting next week, with some folks in Colorado from my group.
And it's like, can we go to the area where we almost might die? You know, but the reality is. that's just who I am. Okay, cool. So underneath that, then I can create practically that, okay, I'm going to talk about like our matrix. Like, okay, well, we're going to talk about our gathering, the King's events.
And we're going to talk about helping people, you know, from a, an entrepreneurial journey perspective. And we're going to talk about, what it's like to, You know, be surrounded by other, mentors or mentees or peers. Like these are some of the matrix things like practicals that we're talking about that fits into the brand identity of I want to win.
I'm freaking intense. Let's go. Rising tide raises
all ships. You know what I'm saying?
[00:10:29] Jay: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. you mentioned something about starting a podcast in there. I'm going to ask the non traditional question. Who shouldn't start a podcast?
[00:10:43] Chaz: Well, you shouldn't start a podcast if you don't want to have a podcast, right? I'm just a firm believer that you should do things. That, that you want to do. and so here's the caveat to that is that sometimes we do things that we don't want to do because it helps us get what we want. So even though you may not be saying, well, I want to start a podcast, you might have a business, or you might be wanting to start a personal brand that might help your business or whatever the bigger goal is. And in order to get there, it makes sense that you start a podcast, right? You know, I mean, thousands of phone calls that I've made cold calls over the years that I didn't really want to make, but I knew that it was going to help me get what I wanted.
That's focus or discipline. you don't have to necessarily love it, but for the ones that, want to start it. Again, I would ask them that same question. Why do you want to start it? Because just talking to people randomly is okay and fun and probably fits a lot of personality traits for certain profiles, but until what?
So my, that's one of my other questions is until what, why am I doing this? I can't just randomly have conversations. Okay. So for me, Gathering the Kings, I interview seven to nine figure business owners because I know deals will happen from seven to nine figure business owners. It doesn't mean that like deals for me, like not clients, although that has happened, I just mean things happen.
Like I know when I get amongst peers. Things happen they invite me to be on their show or I do a deal or maybe they become clients or We fly somewhere together and take our families on a cruise like four literally four families just did that I met on my podcast Like how that none of that would have been possible if I hadn't have just started a podcast So the second piece though is like know why you're doing it.
I guess
[00:12:26] Jay: Yeah, no, that's, those are great answers. switching up a little bit. is there a bad time to start a business? Right,
[00:12:36] Chaz: I say that transactionally, right? Because business is obviously not just about money, but the reality of it is that we all started it to get resources. And, some of those resources are dollars and that take care of our family and, can help us do other cool things. Some of those resources are time we want to build a business because we want more freedom. Okay, fine. So we want all these resources. Is there a bad time to start the business to go after those resources or AKA your dreams? No. I can think of strategic things to be thinking about during different seasons.
Sure. You know, we're on the cusp of potentially the greatest blah, blah, blah, blah, blah that may or may not even happen. We don't know. Like I got, you could go find. Both sides of the story of we're just like crushing it versus it's all going to come crashing down So either way what's gonna happen? I don't know. I learned this actually this lesson in 2008 when President Barack Obama became the president as an adult. That was the first time that a Democrat had been a President and I was pretty young and so I wasn't necessarily Like, thinking about strategy, like, what did that mean to me individually? But like a lot of people around me, like, Oh my goodness.
Just like, you know, when Trump was in all the Democrats, Oh my goodness, everything's going to change.
And from 2008 until now, we've had pretty wide swings and who's in the office. And you know, you know what I've still been winning. So is there a bad time? I'd say you should probably determine what it is that you want and, you should be willing to do whatever it takes to go get it. No matter what external circumstances there might be.
[00:14:23] Jay: Yeah. I mean, that's the right answer. Right. I mean, if there isn't a ready, if there is a right answer, that's the right answer. it's not making excuses,
[00:14:30] Chaz: Hopefully there was some
[00:14:31] Jay: you always find one. You'll always find an excuse if you want to find one, right? The economy is bad. I want to stay at this job because I need health insurance, which I was just talking to somebody about another podcast is not nearly as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, you need health insurance, but to get it on your own as a business owner. Versus like staying in some shitty job that you hate because like, you need health insurance. It's like the, maybe the biggest fallacy about being a business owner. Like you can go get insurance. Like, it's not going to kill you to pay for insurance.
You're going to make way more money by having your own business and having your own insurance than going out and just sticking with some shitty job you're being underpaid at. But I don't want to digress there.
[00:15:12] Chaz: No, but let me say one thing there, because this
[00:15:14] Jay: yeah, go ahead.
[00:15:14] Chaz: that struck to my wife and I just a couple of years ago, you're a hundred percent, right? So if you're listening right now, Jay is giving you like. It's like, you just got to look at the numbers. Don't be caught in the frame of what you've always been told is really what Jay's saying. Okay, so even further down than that is a healthy couple that never goes to the doctor, ever. And so guess what I don't have is insurance. Now, I have some like group blah, blah, blah, Christian something or other, you know, if I really get in a pinch, I got something there, but Look, I got enough money to where if something were to go bad, really bad, maybe not.
I don't know, but here's the deal. We're healthy. We pay attention to what goes in our bodies. we take care of that machine. So a couple of years ago when my wife had a miscarriage, this is not something that we could have. Stayed away from her, you know, it wasn't our fault per se, but she about bled out straight out one of the scariest moments of my life and it's two o'clock in the morning.
I'm calling the ambulance and they're whisking her away and she has multiple surgeries and thank goodness she's okay and all as well. Other than obviously she had the miscarriage and that was just a really tough time. we get the hospital bill, yeah. And, as you can imagine, it was 40, 000 or something like that.
And, they're like, oh, but you're not insured. Oh, well, it'll be 3, 000. I said, great, here you go.
And we walked out. It's so like, well, why was I paying a thousand dollars a month in premium? So 12, 000 for the year when this is the first time we've been to the hospital
in Oh, ever.
[00:16:44] Jay: to support that point. we had a similar situation a few months ago. we had a miscarriage, which, you know, as we both know, that's not a fun thing to do, but I can tell you my bill was around 3, 000 too, and I have insurance. So just to support your story,
just to support your story there, you know, it doesn't necessarily pay, to be paying for insurance every month, but it is a very You know, it's a very common thing for people to do.
Well, I need my benefits. I need my insurance. And he almost sent me like, dude, like, stop making, you're just making excuses. Just go start the business you want to start today. what, and speaking to that, what was the absolute, you know, real first business that you started?
[00:17:22] Chaz: Yeah. Well, my wife and I go back and forth on this cause she makes fun of me. I consider my first real business, my lawn care business. When I was a teenager, I had invoices. Okay. I wrote them out. I went to, collected money. I did the deal, but,it wasn't very much as you can imagine. My first. Like big boy, business. I bought my first edible arrangements franchise. I was 24 turning 25. I left my six figure sales manager, opportunity that I had already been crushing for years. took. Some money that we had saved and I left all security, all insurance and all benefits and all six figure money's coming in on a two week paycheck period. And, and I said, I'm gonna go do this entrepreneur thing. And so I bought an existing business, but I didn't pay myself for a long time. I ended up taking that one location to seven within four years, all in my twenties. And, that was a crazy ride. I still own a couple of those today, but I mean. Well, I was talking about being intense earlier. It's like, I just, I only know how to go all in. It's
[00:18:26] Jay: why did you go with edible arrangements?
[00:18:28] Chaz: that's a good question. I looked at for about 18, 20 months or so, like no joke there. I looked at franchises. I looked at service companies. I looked at furniture. I looked at smoothies. I mean, you name it.
and none of them just made sense. And I'm not a widget guy. Like I have learned that there are. the E myth calls them technicians or owners. And so the technician owner or the technician who's out there wanting to run a business is more concerned about the widget. Like, what are we doing?
What are we selling? How, what's the day to day. And I've just never been like that. Even before I even understood what those terms were, I just wanted to sell and grow and win. And so for me, I didn't care if it was. Fruit baskets, which I don't even really care for fruit, or if it was moving or smoothies, or I almost bought a two location dry cleaners.
Like it didn't, none of that mattered. It was more of a, can I win in this model? So I had obviously sales experience. I knew that I could learn how to do the functional. Like make a basket. So I know how to dip the fruit and cut it up and make it look pretty and stuff. But I wasn't planning on being a mom and pop, you know, owner.
So I quickly learned that and then elevated to how do I go get corporate deals? How do I go secure a second location? How do I do a third location? Cause that was, I was just more concerned with growth. So it was a brand that allowed for that.
[00:19:48] Jay: And was it a franchise or was it a kind of a one off that you bought?
[00:19:52] Chaz: The, well, the one individual, location that I purchased, it's a franchise. It's a national franchise. there's probably a thousand of them nationwide. And so, I bought the first one. It was an existing, and then I bought the second one. It was existing about six months later, I built. The third one, a year later, I built the fourth one a year later.
And then, four and five were a year after that built brand new. And at the same exact time I bought number seven. So all within that four year period, bought three, started for three different States. So it was a lot of logistics, a lot of team building, a lot of places that I couldn't be all at once.
And so that stretched me thin and taught me a lot of lessons.
[00:20:31] Jay: Would you recommend somebody buy a franchise? Of any sort I mean, is that a good way to start if you've never owned a business
[00:20:38] Chaz: I would say yes. I mean, I look back at my journey and what I needed as a 24 year old kid who didn't go to college, who didn't have anybody in my life able to teach me about business. Like literally nobody. I mean, I had me think and grow rich and Patrick Linceone, like, that's how I started.
And so, the franchise system, which allowed me to, again, it kind of depends on the brand, but it allowed me to, you know, kind of ride the coattails of national marketing. They took care of the website. I really just had to focus on operations and then local. knowing what I know now in business and I've been successful in multiple industries, you know, we've got multiple real estate companies.
I have a remodeling business, obviously gathering the Kings is where I spent a lot of my time now, which is a peer to peer mastermind group, and events and the podcast, the whole deal. And so I don't think I would ever do a franchise now knowing what I know, because I like to build, I don't need those, you know, Pieces any longer, but for somebody who's leaving a corporate job, someone who's has no background like I did, it's an easy on ramp.
Now, I also say that with tongue in cheek, cause it's a 10 year commitment on a franchise agreement typically. So I say easy on ramp, but it's like, you're like, you know, it's a contract.
[00:21:45] Jay: Right, that's a hefty amount of time but a good, you know, i've heard plenty of people, jimmy john's franchise another friend of mine you know just getting the cutting your teeth in business Moving from the nine to five world. It's not a bad place to start except for maybe I heard chick fil a you have to actually Be the manager and you can only do one location and you can't do anything else.
So like your opportunity to kind of expand and grow at a place like that. And, you know, I love Chick fil A by the way, if they want to sponsor the show, that's fine. but you know, I think, you know, you do want to make sure you keep your eyes forward and down the road a little bit, when you're doing something like that.
give me three things health wise as an entrepreneur. Daily, weekly, whatever it is that you do to keep your longevity up. Right. I mean, we've got kids, we've got businesses, we've got stuff. I want to be 80 picking up my grandkids and great grandkids. you know, I don't want to be in a wheelchair and a Walker, at that age.
so longevity is big to me. what do you do on the physical and maybe the mental and emotional side to kind of keep yourself tuned up?
[00:22:45] Chaz: Yep, exactly. Well, every day, I'm working out, well, six days a week, I'm working out, every day I'm doing breath work. So I do a Wim Hof, you know, 32nd or 30, in and out,with a breath hold in between. that's every day and, cold showers every day. I mean, that started out years ago as like doing things that are hard, right?
It wasn't like I want to live to be a hundred, right? It was more of. What are the things that I can do on a regular basis that build discipline that are not easy, that also have some sort of a benefit to me mentally, physically, whatever that looks like. And so now is more of my focus of how does this affect me in my body?
Right? Like I analyze everything that I eat. that hasn't been always the case. I've always had a sugar tooth. I love our cheesecakes at edible arrangements. they're the best, but I haven't had one of those in a long time. I haven't had any sugar in probably. Two months, because, I've just been dialing that in over and over going, I'm just getting a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better.
And so hopefully that's a message to the listener of, you don't, you definitely don't do it all at once. you know, I think for the last probably five years, maybe six years, I've been eating, you know, 70, 80 percent like paleo meats, greens, nuts. maybe even a little bit more than that. I like me some cookies.
You know, I like me some cheesecake. Yeah But the last two months I haven't had any like literally I said, you know what? I'm not gonna eat one thing that doesn't serve me again because you just over the course of time whether it's breathwork whether it's you know working out like you just I can remember years ago, I just needed to start working out.
And at that point it was like, I'm just going to do it three days a week. And I'm just going to commit to three days a week. And the other days I could slough and I could be tired. Then it went to four, then to five, now to six. And then it's like, okay, well, while I'm there, what am I doing? Am I being precise about what I'm working out?
am I really trying to, what am I gaining weight? Am I losing weight? Am I gaining, like, what am I doing? And so I think it's just the dial that we just continue to turn of mastery, self mastery, mind mastery, business mastery, all of it. Right,
[00:24:42] Jay: No, I love that. Right. And you. People heard that, it's not overnight and it's very easy in our, you know, glamorized social media world for people to seem like they've been doing everything they've been doing for their entire life and they've never, you know, straight off course, and they've been doing just, you know, you haven't had a cookie their entire life, which is usually bullshit.
Right? So I'm glad to hear, some realness there. And that answer that, you know, yeah. Two months is two months, right? I mean, two weeks is two weeks. Two days is two days. You gotta start doing stuff somewhere. And I, you know, you know, I'm proud of you for taking that leap 'cause damn sure if I don't have a sweet tooth, my to myself brother,, it's something I fight with.
And, but you know, I've been tracking everything I've eaten for I think. Early 2021 and it has been game changer for me just to know everything you're putting in,
you know, and it definitely has an effect on, the output, that you're able to kind of give everybody else. So, let's wrap with this 1 final question, non business related, we'll even go non mastermind related because you're not cheating me out of this 1.
I want to hear a true answer. If you do anything on earth, anything, and you knew you couldn't fail, there's no chance of failing. What would it be?
[00:26:05] Chaz: The first thing that comes to my mind is achievement orientation. is that the lane that we're in?
[00:26:10] Jay: I mean, I don't even know what that means, brother
[00:26:14] Chaz: Okay.
Um,
[00:26:16] Jay: Uh,
[00:26:17] Chaz: like something that I need to achieve. So like if I could go do
[00:26:19] Jay: sure. Or yeah, bucket list item that you know, you're kind of afraid. Maybe you'll die. You know what? Just gimme something that if you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?
[00:26:27] Chaz: Yeah, I, that's making me think, I think that there's this. Well, it, my answer is what I'm already trying to do. and so I'll answer it like that, but with a caveat, I guess, I want to become the best version of jazz. Like I'm trying to meet that guy every day, every week, every month, every year. And I know that 20 years, 40 years, a hundred years from now, who knows? I'm going to meet. You know, just continual versions of him. And so it's a little bit, cause like, I know that's going to happen. So it's not like, I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to fail. I am going to fail, but the two things that popped out inside of that journey where I want to be on stage and I want thousands of people to go, dude, thanks for all that you've done. And I want my family to have the same sentiment. I want them to say, you know what, dad, or, you know, husband, you've just. You've just taken such great care of us. You've been here for us. Like just well done, I guess is really what it is. And so that's, just again, achiever based, you know,
if I can stand in front of the crowd, my wife, my kids, and the people that I'm associated to in business or podcasts, whatever, and their response to me is well done or thank you.
Then I know that I've done the thing, I guess it's the best way to say it.
[00:27:58] Jay: Love it. Beautiful. a way to end it. All right. I knew it was gonna be a good time.
[00:28:05] Chaz: Yeah, I
[00:28:06] Jay: always a good time brother. how do people find Chaz? I mean, I know they go to ChazWolfe. com and I know they, you know, can go to GatheringTheKings. com. Tell me what's the best way for people to find you, and to find, GatheringTheKings or any of the other things you're working on.
How do they want them to find you?
[00:28:23] Chaz: yeah, absolutely. Chazwolfe. com, gatheringthekings. com. Either one of those are fine. I'm probably most active on Facebook and LinkedIn, both just Chaz Wolfe. I'm the Chaz Wolfe. No, I'm sure there's another one out there, but none like me.
So yeah, they can find me there. especially if they are a business owner that has humility. That wants to grow. They're grateful, but not done. They know that they've done some cool stuff, but they've got a long way to go. And almost the sentiment that I just shared of like the journey of becoming the best version. If that's you, then yeah, we would love to chat with you maybe about the mastermind group, maybe about even being on a podcast as a guest, maybe just run in circles with you
[00:29:01] Jay: oh, you do have a lot of cool stuff going on. You're a cool guy.
I'm glad to know you, Chaz. Thanks for being on, brother. I'll talk to you soon, alright? Thanks, buddy.