[00:00:00] Jay: Hi everyone, welcome to The First Customer Podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I am lucky enough to be joined by Tim Swindle. He's the co founder of Paddle Smash. another Shark Tank episode. really cool guy, really cool founder. Paddle Smash looks like something I should have in the backyard of my in law's house.
Tim, how are you man?
Tim: I'm good, Jay. Thanks for having me.
Jay: How hot is it in Nashville? Is it very hot? Yeah,
Tim: we're looking at like 90 plus this week. So a little too hot for my liking.
Jay: that's a little, crisp out there. right [00:01:00] now, I think it's 93 out right now. It feels like a million percent humidity. so where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur?
Tim: Grew up in Chicago area. my dad was an entrepreneur as well. So I think I. Just kind of saw how he operated. And I think deep down wanted to be an entrepreneur my whole life. my first foray into entrepreneurship was actually as a, a golf professional. I was like 12 years old and had no business.
Teaching people golf, but I set up a little, shop when I was 12 at our local club and, taught younger kids how to play golf. And, from then on, I think I knew I wanted to be my own boss.
Jay: That is fantastic. Do you still play golf now?
Tim: I do. I play a lot of golf. Yeah. That is my passion when I'm not building paddle smash.
Jay: We're not building paddle smash. Love it. so tell me the kind of genesis. Was this the first company and product you ever started? Was there some other [00:02:00] stuff after the, you know, being a golf pro at 12 or was this kind of your first big one?
Tim: Yeah. Well, once I realized that the golf professional, was not my few for my future, I, I did, I went to school at university of Illinois and I got into a couple of different things after school, but I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I had the opportunity to team up with some guys that I went to college with, who had just started a software company.
so I joined up with them and we ended up, building this software company called, PointDrive. And while doing that, so that was kind of typical software. It was venture backed, burning a ton of capital, running a big team. And very stressful. And then as kind of a passion project, I decided to launch a board game.
That's kind of akin to cards against humanity. It was called utter nonsense and did that as like a nights and weekends project. And, it ended up kind of taking off. And so I was like, well, that's very fun. You know, it was bootstrapped and, basically could run it from wherever and didn't have to run a big team or anything like that.
[00:03:00] So I kind of fell in love with the toying game industry. ended up selling the software company to LinkedIn. So that ultimately worked out, and then built up the board game business and sold that to a PE backed, big PE backed twin game company in 2018.
Jay: first customers come in like all sorts of sizes and flavors and shapes. tell me about selling this. Game company. I mean, how did you, I mean, did you learn some things from selling the software company that kind of transferred to, selling the game company, or was this a completely different experience
Tim: It was a completely different experience. Yeah. So, for the software company, we had LinkedIn as a client, they used our software and then they just approached us, they wanted to add it on to their sales navigator product. That we didn't run like a process or anything. so, but that was very different.
the board game company, I did, you know, do a lot of outreach. I didn't hire a bank. it wasn't big enough to do that, but, I did have a lot of contacts within the industry [00:04:00] and knew who the potential players were that would be interested in acquiring my company. And, so set up a few meetings and fortunately there was one that was pretty hot for it and ended up closing with them.
Jay: as you have to stay on with them, or do they just buy it as a product and you were kind of on your way
Tim: Yeah. They just. Brought it as a product and tucked it into their portfolio. they, I had the opportunity to stay on, but that wasn't the kind of deal I was looking for. So we would have, they were open to kind of what I wanted, but, my preference was to sell them the product. They know how to run toys and games better than I do.
So it was just, here you go, plug it into your ecosystem. I'll be off on my way.
Jay: and does that game still exist today? Is it still
Tim: It does. Yeah. I don't keep very close tabs on it, but I, you know, it's, I still see it out there every once in a while I'll come across it. So it's cool to see that early, my first kind of invention, if you will,is still alive and well.
Jay: I [00:05:00] love that very much. I went to school to make video games, slightly different, but like a lot of time spent, you know, in game theory, stuff, talking about, you know, Board games and card games. And, that's very cool, man. I love it. And, I'll definitely check that out. we're a big board game family.
We actually have one of those, game tables. It's
Tim: Oh yeah.
Jay: it's, it's the greatest invention ever. I mean, you never lose the pieces. There's a million games on it. You can play anything with, you know, a bunch of kids at the same time. it's a lot of fun. So yeah,we're big, board gamers here.
All right. So let's go to paddle smash. Are we there yet? Do we get to that point in your career? Is that where you went after you've sold two companies?
Tim: Yeah. So just kind of flailed around for a little while, did some traveling. Minor things that didn't really go anywhere. And the backstory of paddle smash is my business partner, Scott Brown. He was a, retailer. So he owned a series of retail shops and he was the first person to pick up my original board game.
So that's how we met, through a business relationship and just kind [00:06:00] of hit it off. He was based in Chicago and so was I. And, you know, so we were working together, but at the same time, we just kind of respected each other and became friends. Both of us ended up selling our companies, and we'd always wanted to kind of do something together.
And so he's a really big pickleball player, and we just saw the space grow. Blowing up within Pickleball and we're like, what can we do that's tangential to Pickleball, but not necessarily just being another paddle or apparel, or I don't know, just, it just seems like there's kind of a very few things you can actually do within that space.
And, not 2 weeks after we'd had this brainstorming session, we were actually introduced to this gentleman, Joe Bingham, who is a father of, How many kids do you have? You have six kids. I was trying to say, I think he has seven. So I think he's got you beat. six of them are boys though. And, he is like a structural engineer by trade and he's kind of a tinker.
He's got, you know, machines in his garage and he's very good with his hands and he created a prototype. Of what is now paddle smash. So we were introduced [00:07:00] to him through kind of a family friend of Scott's and we saw it. And we were like, this is exactly what we're looking for. And just to give an idea of what the product is, it's basically a cross between pickleball and spike ball.
So it's kind of taking those two concepts. And marrying them together and making it so that you can kind of get that pickleball flavor right in your backyard. It's portable, take it to the beach, camping, things like that. so yeah, that's kind of the origin story of Battlesmash. Yeah.
Jay: yeah, I'm, I will be purchasing one of these for sure. it looks right up our alley with all these children we have. so how, I mean, you had some experience in the physical, You know, world, I guess, with the card game and stuff. I mean, did, how did you go from like, we have this prototype thing and some guy who owns a retail shop to like making it a, you know, a brand and a, you know, a real product that you're manufacturing and all this sort of like, that seems like a lot of hurdles to, to cross, [00:08:00] how long did that process take him, like, what kind of walked me through, like, okay, now we have this prototype of this really cool thing we think is going to be a hit to, you know, landing on shark tank and having a final product to sell to everybody.
Tim: So the prototype that we received or that he had built was this like 60 pound hulking piece of plastic, not anything that we could take to market. so we did have to go back to the drawing board to take kind of the concept. But make it so that it was lightweight, affordable, you know, just all the things that you need to be able to do to work and sell to retailers, et cetera.
So, so we basically spent a year in R and D. We hired a design firm out of Bozeman, Montana. That is like kind of a special specialty shop that focuses on this niche space. and so we worked with them for about a year, created a series of prototypes, finally figured it out and made it so that, you know, it was, everything kind of folds up really nicely.
It weighs about 16 pounds, you know, all the components fit [00:09:00] inside of it. So you can kind of pick it up Like a suitcase and carry it wherever. And so, with that, then we went to manufacturing. We've got a great manufacturer based in China. We did just kind of, because we have experience in the space, we knew the different ones that were capable of handling this type of project.
And, so they were game for it, no pun intended. And, so probably, you know, another three months or so after that, I'd say. So from first, like meeting Joe. You know, deciding whether or not we wanted to move forward, gave us some time to play test it, talk to some people, see if this was a product we really wanted to move forward with getting him under contract so that he's got a royalty agreement.
And then actually going to market was probably about a year and a half.
Jay: Got it. And then, so you have a working product and how many did you like have at that point? Like how many units did you have to buy to, to kind of start this? Did you, were you sitting on thousands of paddle smash, you know, units or,
Tim: we ordered, I want to say probably [00:10:00] two or three thousand to start, you know, enough to where we were coming out at the end of 2022. So we launched in October of 2022 and we'd missed kind of the core season, which is Spring, summer for an outdoor game, but obviously the holidays are a big time period.
And so, you know, we were able to catch the holiday season for 2022 and we sold out. so we just, we had no idea what the demand would be. We're a little bit of a higher price point. And, it was a nice, just okay, maybe there's something here.
Jay: and where do you go from there? I mean, it seems like an interesting kind of inflection point where you could go like, okay, it did well, but we don't really know. I mean, do you order a million more? Do you know, how do you kind of figure out, like how do you figure out what's. The next step there. Yeah.
Tim: I'll say, I wish it was probably, it's probably more of an art than a science at that stage, just because you still have very little data to go off of, we, we just kept ordering as high and we'd sell through them. [00:11:00] And, we were, we did some things with our manufacturer that we like pre ordered some of the.
The core components so that we could lower our lead times. so that way we were at least ready. Should we kind of sell out or something happens and we've gone viral on social media a couple of times, and those things are unexpected. And so we've been able to be pretty nimble and get more units made as needed.
And I'd say it's probably the one thing we're most. Impressed, but not like by any means of our own doing. It's just, we keep on being like, boy, did we thread that needle with our inventory?
It's like a, it's like a, a very accidental success. Yeah, like we need to get, we want to get more scientific about it, but it just seems like. All right. Units are moving pretty good. We should order more.
Jay: Right. Right. so, I mean, and who was your first customer? Was it friends and family? Was it, just people online? Like, who did you really start selling these things to? Was it on your own website or Amazon? How'd you start doing that?[00:12:00]
Tim: Yep. So I know I can remember very well who our first customer was. So right when we launched the website, we had done no advertising. We literally just turned it on and we created a Instagram feed. And we just started posting some stuff on there, and there on, and on Facebook. And, we got an order from a gentleman in Atlanta, Georgia, and it's one of those like, Oh shit.
Like what just happened? We got a customer and we're jumping around, but it's like the first thing you're asking yourself is like, who is he? And how did he find us? so it turns out that he did come across it in his feed somehow, and he owns, he's a real estate developer and he's building, there's a concept that's called chicken and pickle that's bigger than he's building kind of like a competitor to that in his area.
And so it's basically like, you know, think of it as,what's the golf,
Jay: Oh, top golf.
Tim: Yeah, it's like Topgolf for pickleball. It's like you have drinks, food and basically play [00:13:00] pickleball, but they have like kind of like a cornhole section and other outdoor games. And he was like, this would be perfect to put in my locations.
So he bought a couple of them and that was our first customer.
Jay: I love that. I love that. and how, how do you kind of react when you get that? Do you literally just go and package it up and ship it? Do you try to, did you ask him how he came across you guys? Like, how are you, how did you use any information you got from him? How did you get that information?
Did you ask him directly?
Tim: Yeah. I think he maybe had put his phone number in his order and I called him. I called him the second he placed the order. I just introduced myself and wanted to understand who he was. Why did he buy it? And I did that with almost every order initially that we got. just trying to learn who is our customer?
what is it about this product that's ticking for them? And using that information to go find more of them, obviously, as we started to ramp up our marketing.
Jay: How many have you [00:14:00] sold today?
Tim: last year we sold through close to 15, 000 and then this year we'll double that.
Jay: Wow. That's a lot of pickle smash, man, or paddle smash. How did you, I guess, did you not want to go with pickle in the name because it was too close to pickleball?
Tim: you know, part of it's just funny coming up with names these days is a lot of like what's available via the URL,and just it's available for, from a trademark perspective. So you come up with all these ideas and then you do a lot of Google searching and then you kind of realize, well, these ones aren't available because we can't get the domain or we can't, Get it because there's already a trademark.
And so it was just a series of elimination and ended up on paddle smash, but we're happy.
Jay: No, I love it. That's a great name. all right. So tell me about shark tank. how did you get on? I've heard it's a very long process to get on there. what was your experience with the show?
Tim: So,this was my second time actually being on. So it was not the first, my first go at [00:15:00] shark tank. First time I went on with a product that I did with my 10 year old niece. It was when fidget spinners were really popular. We created kind of like a candy. Fidget spinner maker. so you could make your own fidget spinner out of candy.
And, long story short is we went on, got a deal, but they backed out and that happens a lot. And so I had kind of like a sour taste in my mouth, to be honest with you. I didn't know if a shark tank was ever something I would want to do again. And Scott and I went out to a trade show in New Jersey. So we just had a booth and we wore these kind of silly outfits, these like seventies tennis style retro outfits.
And we just got a lot of people thought we were funny and, kept on being like, you guys are great. You got to go on shark tank. And I was screw shark tank. And. Last day of that show, we were actually contacted by a producer. producer had no idea that I'd been on it previously. Just, I think came across the product and whatever decided to reach out and see if we'd be interested in applying.
So that was March of [00:16:00] 2023. So, you know, launched October, 2022.fast forward about six months, we're at this trade show, get the call from, get the email from Shark Tank, asked us to apply. that process was about three months. so long as I've said, I said yes. And, we decided to move forward with it.
Just, you know, swallowed my pride and ego and just said, this is something that'd be good for us and for the business. And, ended up getting,the call to go out there in June of 2023. so it was about a three month just kind of like interview process. You do a lot of paperwork signing your last, you know, first born away.
and then, we aired in October of 2023. So about, you know, three or four months after we shot the episode, we aired, you know, basically end of October of last year.
Jay: Got it. And you guys got a deal, right?
Tim: we did a deal with Mark and Robert.
Jay: Okay.
Tim: And, have, I'll share that we did not follow through with it afterwards.
Jay: All right.
Tim: Just kind of, for a number of reasons, it [00:17:00] didn't make sense.
I'm very happy with the show and how everything turned out. but it just wasn't a good fit. So for those of you that don't know, you know, when you make the deal on air, it's like a handshake, it's not legally binding. And so as I learned the first time around, you know, there's an opportunity for either side to exit if they don't like it.
And, in this case, you know, just wasn't the right fit for us. And. Decided to not go forward with the deal.
Jay: You were just waiting for your opportunity to tell them to take a hike.
Tim: Yeah. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Jay: And not this time, buddy.
Tim: Yep. Yep. Sorry, Mark beat it.
Jay: Yeah. Sorry, pal. well, very cool, man. So, and who is your target customer? Like who, how have you, and how much work have you done to you know, the old ICP definition of like your ideal customer profile that you guys know who that person is and who you're selling it.
Tim: We have a few, but the main one I'd say is a mom [00:18:00] with teenage, college aged kids, yeah, moms typically are the ones with the wallet that they have the shared wallet in the household. They do most of the gift buying. and so getting on their radar. To keep their kids busy and off of tablets and, you know, iPads and TV and things like that.
And so, you know, getting a game for their kids to play, and something that they can all play together too. That's one of our selling, you know, one of the things we're trying to sell is that this is not just for your kids. It's something that the whole family can play together. So it's,
Jay: That makes sense to go after the moms. They are the gift givers, typically, especially in my house. Um,and so what's next? What's next for Paddle Smash? Like, is there any big milestones coming up? Are you guys kind of pushing for anything? Is there any changes to the secret sauce that you guys are, you know, the unit itself?
And have you had to change that as you've gone? Or has it just been the same since you started manufacturing it a couple of years ago?
Tim: Minor tweaks. Yeah. I mean, as, I forget the entrepreneur, the [00:19:00] co founder of LinkedIn, Reid Hoffman, he says like, if you're not embarrassed by your first, you know, version of your product, you ship too late. And so, we did just want to like get it out there and yeah, there's been, I mean, nothing major, but I would just say there's some things we've learned with gameplay, that we've just made it, More durable, better experience for the customer.
so minor tweaks here and there, feel very good about, you know, where we're at currently. And, as far as, you know, what's next, it's just continuing to grow it. we have gone viral several times. We've got, I don't know, probably something like 50 million views across Instagram, Facebook, and Tik TOK.
And, that's created a lot of international buzz. So that wasn't a market that we were going after, but because of the reach of social media. It's generated a ton of international buzz for us, and so we are expanding, you know, all throughout Europe, South America, Middle East, Australia, New Zealand.
So, I'd say that's a big focus for this year, but at the end of the day, the U. S. will still be, you know, [00:20:00] The majority of our market, even with all the international expansion. So it's getting into schools. That's another big one. You know, having schools buy it, they played a gym class, the kids like it.
They go, hopefully have their parents buy it for them as a gift, that type of thing. so just
Very cool, man. Paddle smash worldwide. You're going to There we go.
Jay: take it over. well, that's an awesome story, man. I really, there's a lot to kind of chew on there. And, you know, I think it's just, I love the iterations and then just kind of creating this thing and a prototype and going out there and selling it and doing your thing.
And now, you know, like I said, I looked at it on Amazon, which I'm sure I will, or my wife will be purchasing it, purchasing at some point, for the summertime.I love the story and I appreciate you being on. I have one final question for you, non business, non paddle smash related. if you could do anything on earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be?
Tim: Be professional golfer.
Jay: That's the first, I've gotten [00:21:00] professional, NBA player, maybe NFL, but professional golfer. That's a great one. I love that. I mean, I guess is
Tim: I really love
Jay: How often do you golf?
Tim: Not as much as I would like. I have two young kids. so that's a little hard to get away for, eight hours a day, you know, at a time, but no, once or twice a week,
Jay: okay. I mean, that's still good, man. for two young kids. Yeah. You got a trooper of a wife then, she's didn't get out that often. if you want to find more about paddle smash,or about you, about anything they heard today, how do they do that?
Tim: Yeah. So I mean, paddle smash. com or I'm on LinkedIn, Tim swindle, happy to answer any questions you might have. If anybody wanted to hit me up.
Jay: Beautiful. And I'm sure they will. Well, Tim, I love it, man. we'll check in and out and wish you the best of luck and, paddle smash worldwide. Take it over, buddy. That's that. Thanks for being honest. See you, man.
Tim: Thank you, Jay.