The First Customer - Marketing, Momentum, and Making It Work with CEO and Founder Jason Shafton

[00:00:27] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner today. I'm lucky enough to be joined by Jason Shafton. He is the CEO and founder of Winston Francois. Almost got it out perfectly. Jason. Hello, man. How are you?

[00:00:40] Jason: I'm great. It's okay. It's not the easiest thing to say unless you're French. So 

[00:00:44] Jay: It's a mouthful, man. Well, I mean, let's get it out of the way. I know the answer, but why is the company named Winston Francois?

[00:00:51] Jason: We named it after, our dogs. So I own the business with my wife and I run it as founder and CEO. she has a, day job and is not a crazy entrepreneur like me. And we have two French bulldogs named Winston and Francois or Frank as he is colloquially known. And, that's how we came up with the name.

[00:01:09] Jay: Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Very much. I was just telling the story.my company name is JDAQA and like everybody, it's just my initials and then QA for quality assurance, but everybody tries to pronounce it. And, it's been one of my favorite things, hearing somebody say Jadaqua or like whatever weird variations of the name. So tell me, man, where did you grow up and, did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur? I

[00:01:33] Jason: yes, it did. And I grew up outside of Chicago. and maybe the place wasn't so important, but what my family did. So my, dad. And actually by folks bought a, a turntable manufacturer. And, you know, think like you think DJs and turntables now, but this is like hi fi listen to a record in your living room with a really nice stereo.

[00:01:55] so they owned a, hi fi speaker and turntable company. And, prior to that, my dad was an owner of another business in the like. Home theater furniture category. So this is pre like home theater being a thing, but like this is a company that made really nice furniture for your like TV and your speakers and stuff to put inside of it.

[00:02:14] So I saw entrepreneurship from a young age, and I think that influenced me in being comfortable betting on myself and then, came out of, you know. undergrad and went and worked at Google and saw tech. And that was really cool. And then got into startups. So I combined the entrepreneurship example of my youth growing up in the suburbs of Chicago with, working inside the greatest tech company probably ever, maybe Apple being the other example, and got to, then go, you know, start tech startups.

[00:02:44] And now I help them all the time, which is a lot of fun.

[00:02:47] Jay: love that.do you think that your dad's selling high end? And like luxury stuff as his product influenced you at all. 

[00:02:57] Jason: Yeah, for sure. one, I just like, I can't listen to just a pair of, you know, AirPods is like how I listen to music. That's just not going to work. I need like good speakers and good source material, not the crappy MP3s.and you know, like, I think. My, work now I'm selling myself and people consulting services to companies to help them.

[00:03:20] And that's a high ticket item. You know, it's not, something everybody can afford and it's, a luxury. But, I think it, helped me understand that there's a market for everything, and that, you know, there's a buyer out there for the thing you're trying to sell. And that's how we figure out, you know, product market fit.

[00:03:35] Jay: All right. Well, what was the first business you tried to start?

[00:03:41] Jason: Well, the absolute first business, I think I was maybe 10, 11 or 12. And I bought these little styrofoam airplanes, that, you know, would you assemble them? And then they would fly and they're really lightweight and kind of like the advanced version of a paper airplane. And then I started like painting them.

[00:04:01] So I bought like acrylic paints and painted the airplanes. And then I set up a little like lemonade style stand up from my house. And I was selling these cool painted styrofoam airplanes to other kids and their parents would come and they'd give me some money and I'd buy, they'd buy an airplane or two, sometimes the paint would cause the airplane not to have the right aerodynamics and there would be returns and I'd have to handle that.

[00:04:23] Jay: service, 

[00:04:23] Jason: Yeah. I had to learn that.

[00:04:25] Jay: age. There was no chat bot for that. there was no help bot, for people to

[00:04:31] report

[00:04:31] Jason: this is pre Chatbots, man. this is og, this is basically pre-internet. I'm old.

[00:04:36] Jay: it. Um, It's so funny how common that story is from like

[00:04:43] Jason: Somebody else was selling painted styrofoam airplanes. I wanna meet 'em,

[00:04:46] Jay: No, but

[00:04:47] like just the concept of like something like you just, you know, like I would melt crayons on the bus and like, they would like. If you melt them enough together, you can make them in cool kind of shapes. And they're like this very like malleable material after it had been heated for a while.

[00:05:03] And, and I was like, yeah, it was like playdough, but it was like, this really, it was weird and it was cool. And like people buy it. And I knew people that like sold like, people in that have sold, you know, candy and like other, but the paper airplanes is certainly a unique, but all of them, like at a very early age. Exhibited some form of like, Hey, I'm gonna make a transaction with another person for money for something that costs less than they're going to pay me for it, which is like a cool thing to kind of pick up as a kid. what was your first company that you started beyond the pay? Or maybe you turn that into your first, you know, company.

[00:05:33] I'm not sure.

[00:05:34] Jason: No. My first company I started in high school, it was originally called JS recording and then rebranded to Rubber Room Records. I started a record label, a production company, and I was recording, you know, other kids in their bands and my high school choir and musicals and hip hop rock groups just.

[00:05:51] Whatever I could get my hands on and whoever wanted to hire a local kid to record their crappy music, frankly. So I did that. and that was, really , really cool experience that led me on a journey to try to find a career in music. And it all came full circle. Actually I got to launch Google music and Google play when I worked at Google.

[00:06:13] So like it was a wild journey, but you know, 20 plus years ago, I started this,record label in, high school.

[00:06:20] Jay: and you're still, are you still 

[00:06:21] doing 

[00:06:22] Jason: Technically I still do it. I do occasionally collect a small royalty check from some of the stuff I did, but it is certainly on the back burner of the day to day is the company behind me, Winston Francois. And it's the consultancy that helps tech companies with growth and marketing.

[00:06:37] Jay: So anybody who has been on the internet, especially on LinkedIn, probably in the last I don't know, five to 10 years has been beaten over the head with companies that help, uh, with growth for marketing and sales. first of all, how do you compete in that? How do you like start a business in a very crowded space?

[00:06:59] That's like. You know, got a lot of money behind it. And like, there's a lot of people doing it. made you start it? And like, how did you think you were going to do against just like the sea of growth specialists?

[00:07:12] Jason: Yeah. so I definitely didn't intend to start it. It I think the best businesses do. I worked. In this space as an operator inside of companies for years. First at Google, then I ran marketing at Comedy Central. And then I was in, I started my own startup with a couple of co founders. We raised tons of venture capital, and then I was running another venture and private equity backed startup before, making my way into one that everyone's heard of.

[00:07:40] I led growth and marketing and headspace. And through all those experiences, I met founders and investors. Executives, people that saw how I operated and liked the way I thought about growth and marketing. And so when it came time to kind of start this, which I didn't even really started, I just started getting asked to advise and consult, while I was already, you know, doing other things so that those requests became so frequent.

[00:08:06] And so interesting to me that I was able to step away from like having a day job and do just this full time as my day job. so what, you know, what became, what began as a side hustle became my only hustle. and, you know, I think that to your point about there being a lot of people out there that do this or say that they can do it and it's a very crowded category, that is true.

[00:08:28] Back to my comment about there's a market for everything. What I've done in my career and what I do, I think is different in that. I am a, you know, a chief marketing officer in that I've played that role in many companies at this point. And I provide that service to the companies we work with. I have a team of people like me that are also with that type of background.

[00:08:47] So we provide, you know, fractional. I think part time chief marketing officer, head of growth, kind of VP level folks that are super strategic, that help companies grow. and they've been in these rooms before, so they've been in a venture backed startup. They've gone through that journey. They worked at big tech companies like Google, Apple, Meta, Amazon, etc.

[00:09:08] And, or they worked at a little startup and helped scale it from zero to one, one to 10. So they have that direct experience, which makes them a very credible person when they get in a room with a founder and CEO is like, Hey, I need help with my growth and my marketing. So we show up and we do that work and we're.

[00:09:23] Really value add at the strategy level. And then we also can help execute much more like a traditional agency. so I think it makes us a little bit different.

[00:09:33] Jay: well, normally I would ask who's your first customer, Winston Francois, but I, would be remiss if I didn't ask who was your first customer at the painted airplane stand. Do you remember who you've no, no

[00:09:45] Jason: I don't remember the kid. There's no chance. I 

[00:09:48] Jay: thought you were going to be like, it was Jimmy, whatever, from down the street.

[00:09:51] Jason: it up. If you want me to, we could go back and I'll do it again. And I'll say, Oh yeah, it was Jimmy.

[00:09:55] Jay: yeah, yeah, it was Jimmy from

[00:09:56] down the street.

[00:09:57] Um, no, but,who was your first paid, person? How'd you make that leap from like, just make giving advice to like, actually. Turning this into a real thing.

[00:10:07] Jason: So before I even started, I got introduced to folks and I was advising them just for equity. But the first customer that paid me money to be, their kind of growth partner was a company, based, started out in Southern California where I'm based now called Modern Animal. and they are like, what you would hope veterinary care would be.

[00:10:26] So it is the, it is a tech first, incredible platform that allows. Pet parents to take better care of their animals because there's a mobile app and you can talk to the care team 24 seven using your phone and you can book your appointments and put your credit card in there and does everything. So think like, you know, a one medical or some of these other companies where you have a membership and you just show up and it's like apple store in terms of how beautiful it's designed and everything just feels really nice.

[00:10:52] And unlike a lot of vet clinics, it doesn't smell like pee and like it's just. Really clean and well, well designed and made in a thoughtful way and with like a tech enabled Aspect to it. So that's modern animal. They were our first customer I didn't know what I was doing. I came in and helped them as their vp of marketing in an interim capacity and helped them hire their first head of growth And it was an awesome journey.

[00:11:16] They now have dozens of clinics all over the country. They've launched beyond California. They're in Texas. They're in, Washington state. and they've, you know, they're going to expand all over the country. They've raised I think over a hundred million dollars in venture capital. And it's just a, it's an awesome success story.

[00:11:29] And I still work with them to this day. we've worked with them three times now. This is the third in, incantation of our instantiation of our engagement together. And I continue to advise them and support them. And I'm just a huge, huge fan. And I take my dogs, Winston and Frank to modern animal.

[00:11:43] Jay: Look at that. Look at that. beautiful circle back. Um, how did you get that connection? How did you make that relationship happen?

[00:11:52] Jason: So the introduction came from somebody I worked with at headspace and they knew the founder and CEO of modern animal, Stephen, and they introduced us.

[00:12:00] Jay: And what did your, coworker at Headspace know that you were kind of looking to make this a business? Did they introduce you as a, 

[00:12:08] Jason: They just said, this is a smart guy. That's good at growth and marketing. You should talk to him and maybe he can help.

[00:12:12] Jay: Okay. Very cool. So it was kind of an informal kickoff.

[00:12:17] Love that. Love it. So some of the best or all the best sales calls and sales are just Not pushy, not hard.

[00:12:25] They're like, it's a good vibe on both sides

[00:12:28] and there's value being exchanged. if you had to start over again tomorrow, everything you've learned, same business, what would be step one?

[00:12:41] Jason: That is a great question. first of all, I don't think I could. I think life is just the way it is because things happen that are beyond your control. And, you know, you, it's a combination of luck and timing. but if I had to start a business like this tomorrow, I think I would be even more focused on who my ideal customer is.

[00:13:01] And who they aren't. I think in the early days I said yes to things. We said no to a handful of folks, but you know, it was a lot of just like fumbling around in the dark and figuring out who is the right company to work with and at what size and scale and what do they need. And I think starting tomorrow, I would take a much more, surgical approach to, you know, this is the only type of company that I work with at this stage, at this revenue level, this much funds raised in this category, and this is the decision maker and like.

[00:13:27] Anything outside of that, I'm just going to say no to and stay really focused. whether or not that would result in the same outcome, I don't know. It might be, that might be a worse way to do it. but where I am now, I think I'm getting that clarity after five years of doing this and I'd certainly would have loved to have had it a little bit earlier on.

[00:13:42] Jay: It's a while sometimes, man. I feel the same way. I feel like it never ends. I always feel like if you can tell anybody like exactly who you are and who your customer is at any given time, I feel like you're kind of bullshitting a little bit because like, it's always moving. It's all, there's always an opportunity over here that you're like, maybe that is kind of more of a, you're always, that's the fun part to me.

[00:14:04] That's what makes it all exciting is the constant kind of weaving in and out and figuring out what works. So that's a great story. how do you manage and kind of promote your personal brand versus the company brand? Like, do you treat any differently? Are you just the face of it and you've kind of come to be okay with that?

[00:14:20] Like what's your take on personal brand versus company brand?

[00:14:24] Jason: Yeah, I'm definitely the brand right now and I would love the company to have its own. Brand. So I try to lend my brand to the company, but at some point it would be great if the brand of the company was bigger than my personal brand. I think at the moment I have a lot more followers on LinkedIn than the company does, but it would be really cool if that flipped.

[00:14:42] My brand on, on kind of social media at the moment is very much like a look into my life. I share just more personal elements. and then the company is much more focused on, you know, the things we're doing and the services we offer and what we do. So try to keep it light. And I think As a marketer, I know people follow people, not brands typically, and they're interested in human stories.

[00:15:03] So I try to be just authentically me and tell my story. And I'm not yet like building in public, but I've tried to talk that way. And I think it would be cool to share more about, you know, how we've built this and how we got here. cause I think people do. are genuinely interested, which is why you have a show like this where, you know, how did you get your first customer and how do you grow?

[00:15:23] and I think we've got a lot of good stories because not only are we doing that as a business, but we help all the companies we work with figure that out.

[00:15:31] Jay: You,Twitter guy, do you think, do you spend time promoting content there or are you LinkedIn? Like what's your channel right

[00:15:37] Jason: My LinkedIn is my channel. Yeah, I was on Twitter and X, and yeah, I've gotten less engaged there of late.

[00:15:44] Jay: Okay. Yeah. I'm just curious. And that's not, it was not a,

[00:15:47] Jason: Yeah, let's not go there.

[00:15:50] Jay: question by any

[00:15:51] Jason: LinkedIn is my platform of choice. Yeah. And if you 

[00:15:53] Jay: yeah, it's I the reason I just asked because like, you know, Twitter for whatever it is now or whatever, like it has. Been the place you can be a little more personal and like you do a little more of the pull the curtain back and you know, LinkedIn was a little more buttoned up and it's feels like it's shifting, you know, a little bit, but, that's

[00:16:11] Jason: Everybody's like open kimono everywhere now, it seems. It's like just, you know,being very raw. I think Instagram is the place where people like to still kind of show the varnished version of their life, right?

[00:16:22] Jay: But yeah, you're not. Yeah, I love my favorite is to put like embarrassing pictures of my kids on my Instagram. That's one of my favorite things to

[00:16:30] Jason: How old are your

[00:16:31] kids and when will they see this and be 

[00:16:32] Jay: Oh, they've seen it and they're not happy there. I have six kids. They're of all crazy ages, but, my eight year old, daughter does not like me putting pictures of her on

[00:16:39] Instagram, so 

[00:16:41] Jason: Okay.

[00:16:42] Jay: happens fast, man.

[00:16:43] Happens fast. What

[00:16:43] about you? How many kids you have? 

[00:16:44] Jason: ones. Yeah, I got a seven month old and a four and a half year old.

[00:16:48] Jay: okay. There you go. Yeah. That's a good

[00:16:49] split. I like that. 

[00:16:50] Jason: I'm not at six though. That's you're playing life on expert mode.

[00:16:54] Jay: know what I'm doing.that's probably the most honest thing you'll hear today. well, if you want to get in touch with you, actually, I have one more question before

[00:17:02] Jason: Yeah, 

[00:17:03] Jay: end with this question. non business related, just, you know, Jason is Jason. If you could do anything on earth and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:17:15] Jason: Well, this is going to be cheesy because of the conversation we just had. But like, if I could do anything on earth, all I would do is not work and spend all my time with my two daughters and just like be present for every single school drop off pickup, soccer practice, dance recital, just to hang out with them all the time because they're so cool 

[00:17:35] Jay: answer. That's a great answer. It's not even a cheesy answer. It's a great answer. I've actually, I don't know if I've ever heard that answer,

[00:17:41] Jason: Yeah, it's not life isn't about like, you know, this probably, cause you, have a bunch of kids. Like once you have kids, it just changes your perspective on literally everything. When I was in my twenties and working at Google, it was like, I'm going to change the world. I'm going to build a company that changes the world.

[00:17:55] And now I'm like, I'm going to change my kid's world. Like all I care about just making great life for them.

[00:18:01] Jay: well, people always say to me, you know, like, Oh, it's, you know, what was the, like, how did it get crazy from two to three or three to four or five to six? I'm like from zero to one, 

[00:18:10] Jason: Yeah,

[00:18:10] Jay: that's the craziest you have to become. Like, I like, it's not about you anymore. Nobody cares about it. It's about your kids and what they're, and like trying to just pour everything into them.

[00:18:18] So,

[00:18:19] yeah, I appreciate that. Sounding like a good dad, man. So if people want to, learn more about, Winston Francois, how do they do that?

[00:18:26] Jason: Yeah. So, you can go to our website. I've got a handy link where you don't have to worry about how to spell Francois. So if you go to wf. team slash pod, that's wf. team slash pod.that'll take you to our website and you can check out what we do. I'm on social media as Jason Shafton. If you just search my name, you can connect with me.

[00:18:48] My DMS are open. I'm always interested in hearing about people's growth challenges and finding ways I can help them. And yeah, on that website, if you have a company and you need some help with growth, you just book a time. We're happy to talk.

[00:19:00] Jay: Beautiful. I feel like if we talk for a long time, maybe we'll have you on again. Jason, you are a fantastic brother. Have a good rest of your week, and a good holiday season and we'll catch up with you soon. All right.

[00:19:09] Jason: Thanks. Thanks for having 

[00:19:10] Jay: Thanks Jason. See you man. 

[00:19:13] ​