Hi, everyone. Welcome to the first customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I am lucky enough to be joined by Shruti Pandey. I didn't, I didn't, she didn't tell me how to say her last name, but I'm just gonna, I just winged it there. Shruti, hello. How are you?
I am doing absolutely fantastically great and I'm over the moon that we're doing this.
You are such a kind soul. So you have a podcast called Ithi Shruti. Your kind of slogan is that knowledge should be accessible by all, which I love that you're also a freelancer, you do quality assurance, which hello everyone, I do quality assurance as well and I've been doing it for a long time. So this is exciting for me. I don't get to people who have people in my space.
I don't get to have people who are Currently freelancers and kind of in the transition phase to starting their own business and have a podcast. So this is gonna be fun. So Shruti, tell me, where did you come from? Where did you grow up in India?
So, I am basically born and raised in Mumbai, if you would have heard on your side of the world. I'm pretty sure most people know it as the economic capital of India, so... I'm basically from Mumbai. That's my base station and I love it to the core. being here for so many years, I've also gotten a little bored, but I think nothing beats, this state, in India. So I'm just very lucky and proud and happy for the fact that, my parents, my grandfather, he chose to settle in this state of our country.
What do you love about it?
It's basically like, if I were to compare it with the USA, Mumbai is like a New York, so everybody's welcome. So it's like multilingual, multicultural, and wherever you are from, you're just a part of the city. You just become this part of the city and the dream of whatever you want to be, right? From a movie star to a engineer to a doctor to a whatever.
I mean, before coming to this podcast, I was wondering, am I really like a first generation solopreneur or freelancer, entrepreneur, whatever in my family? And it's so wrong because like my great great grandfathers, they first came from another state in India to Mumbai to try something. Then my grandfather settled, became a doctor, studied here, had his family.
So I think I would be wrong if I would say that I'm like the first generation entrepreneur of my family because It's so wrong at so many levels.
it's a common thread that, it runs in the family. You know, I hear from a lot of people that, it's in their genes. Even if it's not direct, and even if they're not doing it.
Actually, thanks to your podcast. Actually, you made me think all of that. I mean, usually it's so easy for us to, you know, get into, generation trauma, childhood trauma and stuff like that. When we think about families and this and that, and you're like, where is this coming from? But, I think, with so much negativity being marketed in the world, we just forget that so much of good things come in our genes. from our ancestors and from our parents and grandfathers and all of that.
I think the ability to talk so much for me to host a podcast and right now talking with you and your viewers, I think that is also something which is, yeah, passed on to me in my dream.
It has to be, right? I think we all like to think we're these individual snowflakes, that kind of fall from the sky, but like we are our ancestors, right? that's who we are. So, well, talk to me a little bit about, your schooling. I mean, you love where you're from. where did you go to college? And then kind of talk to me a little bit about the transition into the real nine to five world because that'll eventually get us to the freelance world.
But, but talk to me about college and how you, how you dealt with that.
Wow, this... Nobody asks such questions, so thank you so much for asking this because I actually feel that... in general, I'm not talking about myself, but in general, I don't think anybody just becomes a founder like they get up one day out of their bed and like, and they're like, Oh my God, I want to have a business. I think it all comes from like we have a phrase in Hindi, but I think most of the people wouldn't understand it basically says key.
something like your habits, your traits, your character. people can notice it right when you're in a cradle. Yeah. Literally from that moment, people can understand what you will be. So, my schooling was very crazy. Like, my dad comes from an English medium. My mother also comes from an English medium. But she was a convent educated. So, I think there has always been a battle in my family and my genes also. So, there's a lot of fight which goes on within my genes.
And I'm like, what should I be choosing really? So, my an English medium school but not a convent. Because I don't want, I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt anybody's sentiments, but he basically was like, I don't want anybody imposing their religion on my kids. Though, in my family, we are very liberal. I mean, I come from a very orthodox Brahmin family, as they say. a Hindu family, you may call it, but, like, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity, even, Muslims.
Everything is, like, very unity and diversity kind of a thing in my family. We are all very... respectful to all religions and gods, but somehow my father was like, no, just English medium. It should be. So I went to a semi government aided, kind of a setup here in Mumbai. And, if I could go back in time, I would still choose that school.
I don't know why, but I would still choose that school because no matter what the hardships and everything, it was run by a trust of South Indian people that we have in India. So people coming from the South of India and Sanskrit was a language for me, there was Marathi which was a language for me, because I'm from Maharashtra state, so I think while growing up I was learning like 4 5 languages just because of my schooling and the place I lived in Mumbai.
So I think I'm very lucky in that aspect, because I feel your brain develops even better if you're learning more languages. It's better to learn more languages that you can speak, rather than just typing languages like Java, Python. Yeah, we can flatter each other with all of that. But it's so important if we learn languages which we can communicate with. So, that was the thing. And college was even crazier because I come from an orthodox family, like I mentioned.
So, girls getting educated was like the heaven and hell would all break loose. So, you're not supposed to be educating a girl child. Why waste that money? And I'm the eldest one in my family on my father's side. I think I had to be a rebel for a good cause and, you know, be that leader by example so that cousins, especially the girls, could have somebody they could relate to because I had none while I was growing up.
So, like, there would be a lot of taunt that I would get to hear, and even my mother. So I grew up in a joint family. So we literally lived in a big family in a decent small house in Mumbai. So there were a lot of people, less space. So I think it. And all of that taught me how to, you know, communicate with people, adjust with people, understand their temperament.
Because now when I look back, I realize all of that that happened with me in my life, right from my childhood, it actually worked out in my favor, some way or the other, right? Really. Because if I'm living with 10 people under the same house, it's like, what do you call it? Big brother, big boss, whatever you have, it's like.
yeah, yeah, yeah,
It's like a daily thing in my house. I don't need to switch on a TV to see that, right?
It's reality TV. you lived reality TV. Did you go straight from college into doing quality assurance or was there some sort of like bridge to that?
I, I actually wanted to be a doctor, but I come from a doctor's family, like grandfather doctor, father doctor. So they don't, didn't want me to be, you know, getting into the stress of that occupation. So my father was like, you should be getting into engineering. And, right after my engineering, the first job that I got at Infosys, I have a very bad habit of being the best. wherever I go, as a student, as an employee, so I topped their training.
And if you top their training, they'll put you on something which gets them money, which is testing. So, there I was. I didn't choose testing, testing chose
No, look, let me tell you something. nobody chooses testing. Testing chooses people. That's a great, I think that should be like a, you know, I put that on my next t shirt. you know, testing, you know, chooses you. because
Can
all the time.
by Shruti Pandey something like the
Yes, 100%. I'll give you the 100% credit for that. You know, we can split the royalties on the t shirts. I think, Yeah, well, it's funny because a lot of people ask, like, and I can't answer them. They say, well, how do I get started in QA? I'm like, I have no idea. There's not, I mean, there's not really any QA schools. I mean, I'm sure there is online. I'm sure there's stuff out there. But, like, You usually kind of stumble into it, so it's interesting that you did as well.
So you bounced around a bunch of places after that I saw. You went to BrowserStack, you did a bunch of cool different, You know, different QA things. What led you to doing freelancing? How did you get to doing freelancing?
I don't have that. I'll try to keep this short. I'll really try my best to keep this short. I was, I worked at two MNCs. I worked at two banks. I worked at two startups. And I realized I think I've seen it all. I've been it all because again, Like I said, I want to, I have always been very hard on myself and I want to be the best. So whatever work was given to me, even as a tester, I would go like over and above my task and act as a PM, act as a business owner.
Scrum Master, Agile, this, that, blah, blah, blah, whatever you name it, right? So, I did all of that while I was moving from one place to another. And I was getting these opportunities. God's, by God's grace, I was actually getting these opportunities. And I actually got many more, which I had to say no to, because it would look very bad on your resume if you keep hopping from one place to another.
Which is, like... I mean, seriously, when HRs reach out to me, I feel like you are the ones who should be guilty of coming to me and, you know, making me have to switch and then blame me for switching so much because I didn't ask for it. It just happened. So, after two MNCs, two banks and two startups, I was like, I think I've seen enough of how work is done, what work is done, what kind of work is done, what kind of office politics goes on. I just got tired of the good and bad everything.
I'm getting old, right? I'm not getting any younger. So I was like, if I don't try this now, then when? So I took the plunge, like January, 2022, while I was getting all, all the tempting offers for another great hike and great designation and great companies. Thank you so much. And I was like, no. And they're like, oh, so when are you going to? It's like, I'll let you know. I ultimately. You choose this because, yeah.
I think I also wanted my freedom 10 years of, after 10 years of corporate, I wanted to have some life back because I think, are we kidding? There is no such thing as work life balance. You have to manage all of that crazy, like, and again, I think in India, especially as a female, like I had to give so many sacrifice, including like not having a personal life, not getting married. Not having kids, etc, etc. But still, you live with a family, right? You're supposed to take care of them.
Your parents are getting old and all of such things. So, yeah, I worked on my career as a baby.
Where do you think your drive to be the best came from?
From my mother? Absolutely. Hands down from my mother. Oh my God. I still see her, I mean, I don't want to get into making this a sympathy thing or something, but Even now, now while we are talking, she's gone to doctor with my dad because I was like, I can't accompany you today and she's undergoing a cancer recurrence treatment. I haven't seen a person, I haven't seen a person as strong as my mother.
And I think I've become 20x times stronger than her, which is actually a problem rather than a good thing. If you become that strong in a world like ours, so yeah, it's definitely comes from my mother.
So, how did you get started in freelancing? What was your, let's call it your first customer. I mean, it's a, again, I love this conversation very much.
Really? Yeah.
this is the one that people should listen to. This is the, I've been working in the corporate world. I'm burnt out. But I've got enough experience that I think I could do this on my own. And like, you are... The shining example of that. So tell me, how, you know, you had all these offers, you did all this stuff, you said I'm gonna, I'm no, thank you, I'm gonna do my own thing. How did you do your own thing? How did you start to freelance?
So, it's weird, when, I was working, there was one gentleman from the U. S., I don't want to name him because he's a very, very good man,
you don't have to name any names, I always say that. Don't name
this guy, he, he just tried to, you know, lure me into something, he's like, why can't you just moonlight, and I'm a person of character and ethics and values, like that's how I've been raised in my orthodox family. And I was like, I can't do this and I didn't choose that and I was like, no, this doesn't work for me. If I'm supposed to help you or your brother or whatever, in whatever world that you want me to help you with, I would rather leave my job, take it up as a full time or something.
And he was like, you're such a fool, like, why can't you do this? And I think that was one of the trigger point that happened while I was working. And I wasn't even sure that seed was actually germinating and cultivating in my head somewhere. Yeah. And so happened that by 2022, the last manager that I had in my organization, he is an amazing, amazing Russian fellow. And I was working at this startup and he was like, I don't understand why don't you get into consulting? You would be so amazing.
I was like, yeah, I know if I can do it for them, I can do it for myself. I know, but that's too scary. Right? And then there was another gentleman who I interacted with through one of the testing conferences. And he was like, why don't you get into consulting? So I think it was some destiny's plan. Like every, all of them were men, ironically, like all of them were propelling me and instigating me. Why don't you get into this?
And when I finally decided it, it was really scary because how do you land that first customer, that first job, that first project or whatever you may call. So, and I don't get on to, you know. Those, sites which offer you freelancing projects. I don't know why, I'm sorry to all of you, but I find it really lame. I'm like, I've been working in this industry for a while. I have some network. If I can get people from there who trust me enough. And that's exactly how I started my podcast also.
So, I was like, if there are people who think that I can do good for them, that's how I'll go. And ironically, my first project was from that gentleman, his brother actually. You won't believe it wasn't a testing project, but it was a U. S. based construction company who wanted me to help them for their growth strategies and help them as a technical project manager or a program manager. And I loved it to the core. I loved it to the core. I mean, I did that things for the startups also, right?
Like when you're in a startup, you just can't be a tester and a technical person. You have to be out there. We're salesy, we're marketing, etc, etc. And, I had those numbers, I was like, very confident. But when this came, I was like, oh really? And then he was like, why don't you just do a website revamp for us? And have the marketing in place. I said, what is really happening and what am I really getting into? So, yeah, that was my first project and first customer. And I absolutely enjoyed it.
And later there were really testing blogs, testing projects. Can you help us test Web 3? I was like, hell yeah, why not? Web 3, yes! Well, like, nobody has tested it before. I was like, that's what I always want. But nobody has tested before. So this
let's see. I told you. I knew you had a good story for that. but I think you're right. testing is kind of the last line of defense. It's kind of the, the bucket where all of software development's problems kind of show themselves. And you have to identify, is that a technical problem? Is it a product problem? Is it a project problem? Is it a person problem? Is it, you know, all these different things.
Over the years, it's great to hear that you finally got to use that, all that experience to deploy it somewhere else. Right? So that's
Only, only a tester could have figured that out. Are you having something in that specs? Like, is it magical that you can read me like a book?
Right. Yep. Yep.
I mean, I actually wrote about this on LinkedIn a couple of years back that if you do one job right, for instance, testing, if you do that one thing right, you can be so many things. Like I remember getting job offers to be a business analyst because we actually do something like that, right? We do requirement gathering, we understand, we prioritize stuff, we automate, we code, we test manually, we do all sorts of things. And I think if you just master one thing, in my case it was testing.
You can be anything that you want. Project manager, program manager, product management. Like, there's so much. And everything from a vaccine to a Tesla needs testing, right? Everybody
that. From a vaccine to a, to a Tesla. I think that's another t shirt. We're gonna walk away here with a, a full, a full t shirt. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna make a t shirt line after this. So, tell me about the podcast. Why did you start the podcast
I wanted to
and what is the podcast? Tell me a little bit about it first, and then why did you start it,
I wanted to do that for so long. I mean, you would've figured out I'm a talkative person, right? I like talking is like breathing to me. It comes naturally. I, I don't have to do scripting or like, this is real time. I'm a Java person, right? I quote in Java, so I do better at run time . That's how I say it. So, yeah. So I wanted to start a podcast. I had no idea that I'm supposed to call it a podcast. I just wanted to get people from my network and talk to them because I know a bunch of people.
So I had this thought since pre pandemic. But again, if you're an employee, there are clauses, there are constraints. You're not a free bird, right? So you can't do things really that easily. And I was like, when would I be able to do something like this? And I think the pandemic triggered something. It made me realize that life is short. I don't know what will happen tomorrow. And if I go, I think I need to do something which really helps society at large.
So, as, I had no idea what I will be doing, but I was like, I want to talk to people, record it, and put it on YouTube for free. So that, in my country especially, I see kids these days have an excuse that The courses are so expensive, and we don't get access to this, blah, blah, blah. I mean, excuses are so many, right? So, I wanted to create something where I had that motto in my head, that knowledge should be accessible to all.
So, I got all these amazing folks in my network, right, from experts in their area, to founders, CTOs, CXOs, and I would talk to them like we do. And it feels like table is turned today for me, so.
This is it. This is your big moment. This turn. Turn it around. Who was your first, who was your first podcast guest?
he is Chinmay Mishra, and he is the founder of a platform called WhoLive. So they basically, rent space to live for kids. So something like a hostel arrangement, and kids don't have that much budget, right, when they go out in the world to get the education. And sometimes we don't get hostels in the college, so they have to stay somewhere outside. I feel like I'm marketing this, but Chinmay sir, I did this for you. So,
Yeah. he can, he gets some free, a free plug on the, on the show
was my first guest. And I had actually approached a lot of my people, my network, and somebody else was in my head for the first guest, but he was like, Shruti, let's just do this. So, when I completed like 100 videos on my podcast, I was like, just come back again, because you showed that faith in me to be the first one.
no, look at that. I love that. if you had to. Start freelancing over again tomorrow. If you, the lessons learned, you know, think about, somebody who was in your shoes beforehand. What would be step one, to go start freelancing tomorrow?
My God, I'll tell you something, especially if you're freshers and kids and in college, you already are doing a lot of job as a freelancer or entrepreneur or business owner because in my college days, we used to get a, you know, that crazy phone to make calls to arrange for sponsorship for events, like I was a part of such committees councils, et cetera. And I had no idea that I was doing a cold call. I had no idea that I was getting business. I was getting money. Because I was getting money.
And ironically, I did my engineering from an all women's university. And the sponsorship that I got that year, for my college was from an all men's fashion apparel store. And I think it speaks volume about me that, oh my god, I'm a crazy, crazy person. I can get this. I can get anything happen. So I think never underestimate yourself. I understand we come from families where we see money problems, where we see, Oh my God, how am I going to complete my education?
But all of us in good or bad ways or ugly ways, I'm sorry about that, have that instinct of becoming that owner and business y and stuff like that. And I, I tell people that every time you go for an interview, it's actually sales because you know, a lot of time coming from a technology background, engineering background, we think that, Oh my God, sales is a bad thing. Why am I supposed to do that? But every time you're like, when somebody asks you, tell me something about yourself.
That's the biggest sales question ever on this black flag is selling yourself in an interview. So never be afraid of the fact that, okay, I'm supposed to do a sales thing or something because Until and unless your product sells, it's not going to work. You're not going to get the salary. And also my middle class mentality, that's what it's called here in India, middle class. Like, literally you're middle class. You're sandwiched between the lower classes and the rich people.
So, I mean, I used to have those things. Like, my first project in the third year of my engineering was a E Tiffin services. Which is something like a Zomato or Swiggy or Uber Eats and I created that way back in 2009 And my professors were like, why don't you just make it live and my middle class mentality stopped me from doing that I mean some days I feel so mad at myself I would have been a multi millionaire kind of a person today and would be bragging so much more on this podcast, right?
Your value is very high regardless, so that doesn't matter.
That kind of kills me and Like I was saying, we all have those instincts from very early on. Don't wait for that, for you to hit a 30 or a 40 to start your business. That's what I tell myself. Like I could have done it so early. Like, why did I not?
it's a confidence thing, right? It has to be. I have the
think more than confidence, it's
it?
about money. It's about
Is it money though? Is it really money or is it fear and confidence?
No. Do you think this person can lack confidence? No.
I think you were afraid to Step out of your comfort zone at that time. Now this version of you is that person was crazy Of course, they should have made that thing. But I I talked to so many people And I feel like it's the same story. It's the fact that, you know, you do have to live through some of it, right? Like, you do have to kind of get the experience, and like, and you gotta have those moments where you go, man, I should have done it then, so then later on you can make the leap to do it.
But, I mean, my, this podcast isn't about me, it's about you, but my take on it is just that, confidence and fear are the two things that hold people back, and they like, if they could just, just do it. I say it every week, I say it to everybody, every podcast, and I'm the one I say. Just do it. Just go do it. If you have an idea, try it, right? I mean, you know, maybe that worked back then, maybe it didn't, you know, maybe your app would have been, a success. Maybe it wouldn't have been, right?
But you wouldn't have known unless you tried. So, give me three things health wise. Mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever they are that you're doing on a daily basis or weekly basis or whatever to keep yourself healthy.
I don't feel guilty in saying no.
I like
I've stopped feeling guilty of saying no. I mean,
that.
like, I think I'm getting so much better in setting boundaries. Like, personally, professionally, I'm like, it's better to, yeah. I always prefer to be honest, but you know that hesitation of, oh my god. And again, it's a culture thing, you know. You're a girl, you're not supposed to say no, you're supposed to be probably a people pleaser, and that doesn't, that never appeared to me. Never.
So, no used to be my favorite word, but I was, you know, I used to be, oh, I'm sorry, but I cannot do this. I've gotten rid of the sorry, I'm like, I cannot do this.
You're like, no, thank you. yeah.
so, that's smart. I, thanks to freelancing, yes, it's scary. Yes, sometimes I'm afraid, oh my god, what would be the next project, how I'll be earning and things like that, where my next money is coming from. That stability of a constant paycheck is gone and in my case it had, I had gotten it to a point where it was really hefty and comfy and nice and it was a really mad moment to take the plunge to freelancing after that but, I now have my life, you know, I never had that.
Like, ever since a kid, I was like this overachiever kind of a person, so having that first rank in school, college, like I said, topper at the training, in the first company, now I have my life for me, and that's such a breather, it's, I can't tell you how amazing that is. I mean, I'm happy if I don't get a project for a month, but if I have my life, I'm like so happy.
Well, you look very, calm and, happy with the fact that you have your life. What's number three.
number three isn't really something I'm a pro at yet, but I wish I would get, you know, that yoga, exercising, or something of the sort into my life. I think thanks to working from anywhere, I usually choose my home. That's my space, that's my safe space, and, yeah, haven, space haven if I were to say. I work from home, I think that really, kills the essence of your movement and everything.
While I enjoy this very much, I still meet people, I still do a lot of meetings, and sometimes I have to travel to clients to... get that project and it makes sense. But yeah, I think if I could get into some of the physical fitness mode, I would be really happy with myself. That's something I'm still working on.
Well, it's fair. I mean, you're, you're busy. is a, the physical thing is definitely a mental thing to like when you start. Getting that in.
The biggest thing I've realized is like the days that, so I mean I do it every day, I work out every day, and if I don't, I think about it all day, and I'm like frustrated by it all day, and then by the end of the day I'm like I wish I would have just bitten the bullet and worked it out in the morning, so when I do it in the morning, like I did today, that is gone, and that's not in my head, and it's not something I think about, and it's just, It's like, you
do the hardest stuff, and it's the same thing with anything else, I tell you the hardest stuff, you know, early in the day, like, I just get that out of the way, and then I don't have to worry about it. So I definitely, I think you're dead on, I think you, just, out of the million other things you have going on, maybe make that a priority. But, well, since you've watched the show, you probably know the mystery question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Non business related.
If you could do anything on Earth, and you didn't have to worry about failing, if you couldn't fail, what would you do?
If I didn't have to work
If you, if you could do anything on Earth, but you couldn't fail, would you do?
Oh, that's a caveat. I can't fail.
Whatever it is, whatever, something, a bucket list item, or something you've always wanted to do that you're afraid that you fail, what is something that you would do if you couldn't fail?
I think that's something I'm already working on and it's something that I've had like a Mother Teresa thing in me. I hate it, but I do like, like saving the world. I don't know why. That is one. Great defect and bug in me like even the podcast is for that right like giving back to the society giving back to the kids like Having something for the next generations where they can look up to something and just hear those conversations for free So yeah, you can't feel in that, right?
I mean Very few people will go to Mars. I hope people have watched the movie 2012. We all are supposed to be here
Yes, yes.
Creating
I. I love that.
Saving lives or something of the sort Which would make people, and I think a couple of things that I am already doing is like a leadership and example kind of a thing. Though I don't want to boast about it, but if my freelancing thing works, it's an example for them. If it fails, it's a lesson for them as well as for me. Okay, how many things not to do? But again, even Edison failed a thousand times to create that bulb, right? So I can try a few times.
Well I can tell ya, I have two little girls. And I, I hope both of them, have a role model as good as you, someday. Because they, you're, very impressive. the fact that you thought you shouldn't be on this show and were worried about being on this show, is ridiculous. You are fantastic. you are doing so many great things. You're working hard.
You've made your own path, you're, you're presenting material for other people to help them, so, I'm honored to have you on the show, and I do appreciate it very much. If people are trying to find you, or the podcast, what is the best way to do that?
I am not on Insta. I am not on Twitter. I am unlike any, any flashy, markety, salesy people. and I think they have to do what they have to do for their living. But I choose to be a real person. Like, that's my ethos. That's my core. And I can't compromise on that as an employee or as a freelancer or broadcaster. So, I try my best to be on LinkedIn.
And, my podcast is on YouTube, so I would love, for people if they want to connect with me and if I was able to help you or guide you in some way because of Jay's podcast. I mean, I think, I feel honored really that it came from you. And I feel actually sad that people in my country don't understand what an uncut jewel they have here. So, sorry, India.
no, you, well, we'll put the links and everything in the episode notes, but I hope people reach out to you. I hope people check out your podcast. I think we should do a podcast. I want to do another one and I was thinking about doing one around quality assurance or something, so I was like, what a, let's, we should do it. We should do our own podcast. You are phenomenal. I love your energy.
you are a, breath of fresh air and I can see why you've taken off and I see why things are going well for you, so keep up the good work, and, I'll talk to you again soon, alright?
Let's keep in touch, yeah?
Have a good rest of your afternoon. I'll talk to you. See you, Shruti. See ya.