[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I'm lucky enough to be joined by John Rossman, managing director of Rossman Partners. John, hello, sir. How are you?
[00:00:37] John: Jay, great, great to get to meet you and thanks for all the work you do on this podcast.
[00:00:42] Jay: Oh, I appreciate that brother. so I was looking through your background. It's like the who's who of enterprise companies, in some places during your career, where did you grow up initially and did that have any impact on you kind of being an entrepreneur later in life,
[00:00:56] John: Yeah, so I grew up in Portland, Oregon, southwest Portland, and, you know, I'm the youngest of four kids. I'm 58, so it was a long time ago, you know, and everything, and You know, my parents were, you know, depression, grew up in the depression, World War II, family, and I would say grew up with very kind of modest, expectations and everything, right?
And so, while my parents and my family gave me a lot of, You know, precious things like valuing education, got to go to college, all that sort of stuff. Entrepreneurship was never a word I heard. Starting a business, starting your own business was never a concept, I knew about and everything. And so in some ways I think, you know, everything kind of both makes you who you are, maybe held you back, maybe propelled you forward, but, I don't think the way I grew up had a big impact on wanting to be an entrepreneur and starting my business.
[00:01:57] Jay: 58, man, I got to get your, facial routine or whatever you do, man, you're looking good. Lord, you're much younger than 58. I'll say that. so. You know, I see you had a ton of experience, you know, in, in corporate settings and doing enterprise stuff. And, just kind of give me the, what are the cliff note version of kind of how you know, were that youngest of four, you went out on your way and it looks like you kind of jumped close to straight into, to the bigger fish.
how did you make that jump?
[00:02:27] John: Yeah, so I, I studied engineering in college and I was just always interested in efficiency, how to improve things, right? Processes, people's jobs, using technology. data systems and data integration. Like these were the common threads all the way across my career. So I started off, you know, working at a big, consulting company.
It was Anderson Consulting back then. In fact, it wasn't even Anderson Consulting when I. When I started, I then was a partner at Arthur Anderson, and that's really where I started to see, like, I like selling concepts, right? Like, I like selling the future and being able to both paint a compelling picture, a great picture, as well as getting other people to be able to join.
I got to join Amazon. I was an early executive at Amazon, got to launch the Marketplace business. and I left Amazon and then I was a partner at another big consulting firm. And along the way, I wrote a book called the Amazon Way. I've written three books. We'll talk about the fourth a little bit. but, that really just created, the books created an opportunity that I've taken advantage of.
And so, that's how I kind of got into my own business, Rostam Partners.
[00:03:42] Jay: How big was Amazon when you were there? I mean, it was
[00:03:45] John: it.
[00:03:45] Jay: 2005 or something.
[00:03:46] John: Great question. So, 90% of the business in 2002, 90% of the business was books, music, video, all first party, meaning we bought inventory, sold the inventory. Holiday 2002 was the first billion dollar quarter for Amazon. Today it's roughly a 550 billion revenue company. we had less than a couple hundred million in short term receivables in cash.
You know, we were referred to as amazon. com, amazon. toast, amazon. org because of course we didn't know how to make money. So there was just a ton of. Of doubters and everything about both the model and the company were being doubted I got to lead the launch of the marketplace business, which was third party selling at amazon. com Today that's almost 60 of all units, shipped and sold and I just learned so much about culture and leadership and, innovation and how much you can get done when you truly focus within the company. But it was, it was a small company compared to the company that Amazon is today.
[00:04:59] Jay: Yeah, it's hard to even fathom how big they are and all the tentacles they have reaching all over the place.
[00:05:05] John: is. Yeah.
[00:05:07] Jay: so tell me about Rossman partners. I mean, you said you had a ton of experience doing a ton of different things. and it's interesting that you said, you know, you kind of had a passion for improving and making things more efficient because, It took me a long time to realize that is a skill in and of itself. Right? Like, as you're growing up, I think you hear a lot about creating things and making new things and doing, and I always felt like maybe I wasn't at that level because I never really wanted to make something new. I like to take something that exists or is like a, you know, make a better version of something that's already out there.
And it always felt like I was. maybe that was the cheap way to do it. But then as I got older and I started, you know, actually running a business, I'm like, Oh wait, this is a whole, this is how things happen. Nobody's created anything new really in the last million years or whatever. So tell me about, Rossman Partners.
[00:05:58] John: Yeah. So guess what? I help my clients solve hard, hard and complex problems. I help them compete and win in the digital era. Right. So I'm still solving problems and. I do that really. I kind of have three models. I do keynote speaking and workshops. I do advisory work and I do consulting work. We're all lead projects and I have a team and everything. And, you know, back to what you're saying. So, you know, the book, the first book I wrote was, is called the Amazon way. It's about Amazon's leadership principles. My favorite leadership principle is the third leadership principle, which is. Titled invent and simplify my favorite part of that principle and where I get to do my edgiest work with Clients is the and simplify piece of that leadership principle. It sounds Obvious it sounds so simple to simplify Processes, policies, jobs, outcomes, customer experiences, systems, all of these things. But we are just masters at making things more complex, not tackling the hard discussions and the hard decisions that have to be made to simplify. But the thing we knew at Amazon was that if we wanted to scale a capability, the most important work we could do would be to define what that capability is and how it works and simplify it as much as possible.
And so if you're willing to do that hard thing of and simplify, then you can truly scale a core capability.
[00:07:31] Jay: So who was your first customer at Rossman Partners? How did you kick that off?
[00:07:34] John: Yeah. So, I won't mention them by
[00:07:37] Jay: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:38] John: it was, healthcare. It is a healthcare insurance startup. he would call it a start over, and everything. health care insurance brokerage business, but he envisioned a new value proposition the of health care insurance that serve both patients and doctors much better and really helped get away from all the policies and all the complexity of existing health care insurance and systems.
And so, he read the Amazon way he reached out to me. He's been a client ever since. So that's seven years. we're, I'm a partner in his business. so I'm an equity holder. I, I still advise him today, but most importantly, he's a, dear friend and I value, that relationship. And so I was very fortunate in him reaching out to me, which is. You know, one of the benefits of these books is that I do get a number of people reaching out to me because they read it and they go, Oh, hey, can you know, come talk to us about it? Give me your opinion on something. And that's what I love doing.
[00:08:41] Jay: I was going to say, is that, is it a, did you envision it being a lead generation funnel tool when you wrote the book?
[00:08:50] John: No, and I still don't fully appreciate it, you know, and everything. And so, I left Amazon in late 2005. I was a partner at a firm called Alvarez Marcel for 12 years. It was like five years after I left Amazon that a client of mine at the Gates Foundation came to me and goes, Oh, you know, you do a real nice job of kind of delicately taking the little strategies of Amazon and insert them into our business. I think you ought to write a book about it. I had never envisioned, even thought about writing a book. and everything and the smartest thing I did was I listened to him and I talked him into being my partner on these books and so we still work on the books together today. And it literally, I, one step at a time I've been figuring it out and so I never really understood the power of a good book that it can have in, You know, most importantly, making an impact to people's lives.
Like I've had the craziest people reach out to me. I had a lady who runs an orphanage in Africa, runs like 30 orphanages. And she sent me a nice email about how the Amazon way had impacted how she's, you know, working with her leadership team and everything like. You know never ever envisioned something like that And I never envisioned kind of the power from a marketing standpoint and stuff I get it a bit now and everything but you know, I think reading good books Is just an absolute Habit for people who want to truly continue to grow and be open minded to new perspectives and learning new things.
And so it starts with the desire to be open minded and actually be willing to adjust how you do things, but books or audio books or long form podcasts like this distinctly different than a blog post or a soundbite, you know, and everything
Right.
like a completely different level. of thinking and if you can find ways to take advantage of it, you know, you're on a path of growth.
[00:10:50] Jay: Did you have to get any sort of sign off from Amazon to write,
[00:10:52] John: Yeah. Yeah. Another great question. I didn't, I didn't ask to though either because I knew like, why would they say yes to this? I was the first, there's been a couple of former Amazon people who've written books. I was the first. To do it explicitly about Amazon and, you know, think through it through their lens, like what would be in it for them to say yes to this and everything, right?
And so, I didn't, I was very careful about, You know, I've always kind of envisioned, like, just keep the ball in the middle of the fairway. This book was never meant to be salacious or anything like this. It's all about what other people can learn from a company like Amazon. And that's, I always, people try to, you know, drag me into. speculation or whatever. It's like, Hey, that's not my swim lane. I'm here to help you run a great business. You know, you can go to business insider or whatever, if you want kind of inside scoop on, on the, on, on matters like that.
[00:11:51] Jay: when did you get into doing keynote speaking? Because that's another, you know, lead funnel, lead generation tool that a lot of people explicitly use. So, I mean, how did you get into that?
[00:12:02] John: Well, it came out of the book, right? So we released the Amazon way in 2014 and all of a sudden these invitations to come talk to audiences started to come up and early on, you know, I was still an operating partner at a consulting firm, had clients demanding clients and everything. It's like, Hey, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to charge.
So I started charging almost day one. I did, a free one out at Microsoft and kind of after that I did everything charged and I absolutely love it. I love the impact that it has. I've gotten to meet so many great audiences and teams. My favorite type of keynote actually isn't a keynote. It's where I work with an executive team.
They invite me in to, come talk to them and it's framed as a keynote. But really what it is it's a short term keynote. Advisory assignment focus on. Well, how are they going to compete?
What? How are they going to change the trajectory of their organization? And what do they need to do from a leadership standpoint from a strategy standpoint from an investment standpoint in order to do that?
And so those are my favorite types of keynotes is Actually sitting around a table with a set of executives and while I'll frame it through like, Hey, here's the lessons from Amazon and how we approach it, it really is like about their business and how they're going to compete.
[00:13:24] Jay: If you didn't work at Amazon, do you think you would have still On the path you're on today, because it's a key part of everything that you're you pitch and you sell and you deliver and you teach and all these things. it was that whatever it was 3 years at Amazon. I mean, you've had a lot of time before that and after that at this point.
So, I mean, that was a very integral, you know, pivotal 3 years. Do you think things would have been the same by any stretch of the imagination after if you hadn't worked there?
[00:13:55] John: Well, you don't exactly know what the alternative would have been,
Right. You know, and stuff, but in my estimation, I don't think so at all. I think it completely changed how I operate. I have a long time business partner who worked. We were partners together at Arthur Anderson before Amazon. We were partners at Alvarez and Marcelle and Steve always says like, you know, Amazon changed you, John.
Because what you're always, what you always do is you're working to simplify and clarify. Point of view around the table and he goes it completely changed how you operate as a facilitator and as a thought leader and that's just one way that it changed me and then I got Lucky to recognize the power of the book.
I did it early as Amazon was just coming to really the attention, as a global innovation giant. And I kind of captured the story out of that. And so I was fortunate on a number of fronts, but I also saw the opportunity. And I took the opportunity and invested the effort and time, into it.
It didn't come for free. And so, but no, I don't think any of this fascinating. career path that I've had, kind of call it last 10 years would have happened this way if I hadn't been at Amazon.
[00:15:15] Jay: Yeah, I mean, it's like the ultimate social proof. Right? Like, I mean, you can't, you can almost not think of a better, at least, the, that the general public is aware of. I'm sure there's others that, you know, that exists, but the one, I mean, talk about a. A social proof of all social proofs. that's pretty incredible.
do you do any marketing today or is it just the book and the keynotes? I mean, I know again, these things are marketing, but do you do any kind of outbound stuff?
[00:15:43] John: yeah, so I do podcasts, is really my, my marketing and I've got a new book coming out. so it's releasing February 27th, 2024. can I take a moment and talk
about it
[00:15:54] Jay: I was going to bring it up. Go
for it now.
[00:15:56] John: I've got an offer. I've got an offer for the audience here. The name of the book is Big Bet Leadership, Your Transformation Playbook for Winning in the Hyper Digital Era. And I have a co author who was my client at T Mobile. Kevin and I stood up a new business incubation practice at T Mobile. we kind of translated a lot of Amazon stuff and some other things, to help build this. Essentially systematic approach for exploring new businesses for T Mobile to enter into. And, the book specifically attacks, it's targeted for senior executives, specifically attacking the failure points of why Big Bets, digital transformations, innovation programs, New product launches, mergers and acquisitions, all big bets. Why they tend to fail and intend is a weak word that i'm using there 75 to 90 percent of all of these types of initiatives fail to deliver the benefits that they were expected to deliver, right? And so the book is targeted towards that. So the offer is if you go to BigBetLeadership. com, I'll do a free Kindle book giveaway to people who register there on February 27th, 2024 when the book's released. And the only thing I ask and it's a request is that they write a customer review for the book so you'll get a free kindle version of the book open to u.
s. Customers only though and You know, please go to bigbetleadership. com and check it out.
[00:17:29] Jay: Love it. switching gears a little bit as somebody who is hyper focused and probably is inundated with requests and messages and everything else. How do you Disconnect. What are your hobbies? What are your, how are you keeping things fun? Not just in the business arena, every day.
[00:17:47] John: Yeah, so my morning routine I we get up early here and I go to the gym I exercise every day and that is just my absolute habit that just you know if I do that i'm gonna have a great day no matter what On the days that I don't get to do that, I'm not my typical, I'm not at my best,
and everything, and I just know that, so that's the first thing I've kind of cleaned up my diet a bit, you know, and everything, right, like, as you kind of keep maturing, the inputs become more important than the outputs, meaning the diet becomes more important.
More important than actually the exercise and
things like that. And so that's really it. And then I just, I tune stuff out like, you know, when I'm writing, and or consuming content, reading something, I turn everything off. and that's the only way you can truly kind of get into the high performance zone to think things through.
And it would be. So some of the habits from Amazon are about writing out all your concepts, your proposals, your projects, like the thing you want to go do, write them out. There's a set of techniques, I explain them in the book. you need to do that with, you can't do that like 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there and 10 minutes there.
You need to set aside at least two hours, turn everything off and actually think about things. And if you can do that as a habit of writing out what your proposal is and then like. Why are customers gonna love it? What are the critical risks of this versus the safe risks of this? Guess what you want to do with the critical risks?
you want to accelerate how you validate those, not defer those. People do that completely backwards. They tackle the easy stuff first. They don't tackle the hard things first, right? You can explain it to others. you can get others on board and you're actually testing your concepts by writing them out and debating them.
Versus in truly investing in them and then getting feedback. And so that's some of my habits that I believe in and apply to my own business and my own life. And it's the essence of the work that I do with a lot of my clients.
[00:19:50] Jay: Love that. And what do you do for fun?
[00:19:54] John: Well, I work out, I've got two grown boys now, but they were both Athletes through college. And so we spent a lot of time. I definitely optimized on, through their high school and college years of getting to enjoy and participate, through their athletics. I've got a French bulldog boss, man, who's typically with me, you know, and everything.
And my wife and I just, we just have a great time. So we bike, I swim a bunch, I do some other things. So it's mostly activity and then just keeping up with our kids.
[00:20:22] Jay: Beautiful. All right, last question. If you knew you could do anything on earth Non business related and he knew you couldn't fail. What would it be
[00:20:35] John: Well, I'd, I'd love to solve some of the education challenges, you know, we have in America. I don't, I would love to give everybody the opportunity for a great education. And so, you know, and that's really the mission of a big part of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the, their US education. And I wish. We could improve the effectiveness, which means both the effort and the resources it takes going into education. And most importantly, the outputs, the rewards we get out of education. And I think that's what. The American, you know, ethos and dream is built on is education and opportunity for education. And so I wish I could, play a significant role in fixing that. If I knew I couldn't fail, that's what I would go do. Regrettably,I've learned about the challenges of making systematic broad scale change in the US education system.
[00:21:43] Jay: of that answer? I think I had I think there was one other Guy kind of a pillar of the Philly tech community Chris Sarah one of my good friends and actually a client of ours I think that was a similar answer to his and he kind of feels the same way. you know, he wants to do it. He knows the problems that are there, but if you couldn't fail, it's a great answer.
So, all right. If you want to find you,
[00:22:03] John: You know, and my second answer to that is I'd go to Vegas, right?
[00:22:06] Jay: all right, there you go. All right. So you got your altruistic and then you got your, you know, your fun answer. I love that. All right. If you want to find you, if they want to find your books, if they want to find more about your business, tell me where I can find you.
[00:22:17] John: Yeah. So, first register for the new book, big bet leadership.com. Rossmanpartners. com is my business website or just Hit me on LinkedIn John Rossman. That's probably the easiest.
[00:22:30] Jay: Beautiful man. Well, you're an impressive guy. I hope people look you up. I will definitely link the book url and we'll get some people over there. I'm going to check out your book and give it a read I have not done that yet, but I appreciate you being on today I hope you have a great weekend and we'll talk to you again soon.
All right. Thanks john.
[00:22:46] John: Okay, great meeting. Thanks
[00:22:48] Jay: See you, man